1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,159 Speaker 1: Oh good, are you bloody champion? Tiffany Cooks just talking 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: over the top of me as I'm doing an intro 3 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 1: as she does, she's not even enough. Well you are 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: an only child? Are you an only child? 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 2: Oh? I can? 6 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 3: I half consider myself that my brother is seven years older, 7 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 3: so I feel, oh no, well. 8 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: That's kind of an only child. 9 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 4: And you've got all the benefits right because your mum's 10 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 4: bottom had seven years to accumulate the necessary fat to 11 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 4: create Wow, that got seriously big brain, you know, so. 12 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: I can't the first sixty seconds you're talking about TIFF's 13 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: mum's bottom size. 14 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 3: Abum was quite a tiny, skinny little thing. Is that 15 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 3: why I don't have a big brain? 16 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 4: Well, I mean that's where the fat for people's brains 17 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 4: comes from. So you know you you kind of one 18 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 4: a mum who's accumulated some some brain fat. 19 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: You know. 20 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: Therefore you I've never heard you backing yourself into a 21 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: corner life keep going. Usually it's me, keep going. 22 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 2: I'm just talking from a biological perspective, you know. 23 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 4: You you know there's a reason evolutionarily why the female 24 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 4: form being our glass is a preferred shape. 25 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 2: Yes, so, and that's because. 26 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 4: We're programmed to seek out mates who have the fat 27 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 4: for to make the next generation. 28 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: It is well also in a side you do raise 29 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: a good point, and it is interesting that obviously genetic 30 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: or biologically women are more are predisposed to have high 31 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: level of body fats for a range of very functional reasons, but. 32 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: Stored in particular places. 33 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 4: So it's not just more fat, it's where it's stored, 34 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 4: and the place where it's stored most women don't like 35 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 4: very much at all. But from a biological perspective, there's 36 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 4: a really good reason to keep it as far away 37 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 4: from the heat of the central body as possible because 38 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 4: the fats used to build a human brain are those 39 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 4: highly oxidizable polyunsaturated fats, so you want them kept cool 40 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 4: a long way from the heat of the body. 41 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, if I don't want to overcook this story 42 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: because we've probably almost thrashed it on the podcast, but 43 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: I feel like, speaking of female bodies and kind of 44 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: hormones and things, Golespo's got, she's gone nuts, like can't. 45 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: I don't know the name of the company, but she's 46 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: been throwing someone under the bloody the blood sugar bust. 47 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: Don't worry about that. Give GILESPO before we talk about 48 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: our topic, dajure, give gilespo the snapshot of what you've 49 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: been doing and losing your shit and then you know, 50 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: having your awakening that you've had. 51 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 5: Oh, it's been a ride, Gillespie. Goodness. 52 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: May I put a continuous blood glucose monitor on a 53 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 3: few days ago? Yeah, well both five days ago. Now 54 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 3: thought it would be interesting to see what happens when 55 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: I eat a cookie, you know, and well, no, terrifyingly, 56 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: it was telling me that I had very low blood shoe. 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 3: I've got a Type one diabetic client and I was 58 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: sending data through to her and she was getting very concerned. 59 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 5: It was going down to two of the night. 60 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 4: Sitting around it would have been giving you alarms NonStop 61 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 4: night long. 62 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 3: So I had gone into full recovery mode. I've been 63 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 3: eating oats before bed every night. I've been doing all 64 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 3: of the things. And then yesterday I decided I'd just 65 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: go and get a fingerprick test from the chemist and 66 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 3: just check on the efficacy of this contraption. And it 67 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 3: was absolute rubbish. 68 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 5: It's not it's giving me misinformation. 69 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 4: Don't they say that, They're like they can be ten 70 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 4: to fifteen percent out. 71 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 5: Well, they bloody shouldn't. This was more than ten. 72 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: Of this was no, hers was like sixty percent out 73 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: because when you say you measured, she measured it was 74 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: three point eight three point. 75 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 5: And the actual number was five point two. 76 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: Well, they're measuring two different things. 77 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 4: And like the CGM from memory measures a level in 78 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 4: your body fat. That's why we've got to attach it 79 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 4: to a fatty part of your body. And the FINGERPRIE 80 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 4: is obviously your actual blood sugar. So they're measuring two 81 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 4: different things. And depending on how you're built, the accuracy 82 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 4: of a fat measurement might be way out. And maybe 83 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 4: that might explain it. 84 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 5: Megams are too big. 85 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 4: Harps too big, too big, too much muscle. 86 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: I'm trying to find a fat spot on her to 87 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: port a constant glucose monitor. 88 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 3: Well, after all these oats, David off about three to 89 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 3: four kilos heavier than I was last week. 90 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: There you go, see it'll be more accurate now. 91 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: So what's the upshot? So you've so you've ditched that 92 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: you're not worrying because you were giving yourself a buddy. 93 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 3: I was walken into chronologist. I was about, Yeah, things 94 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 3: was grim. 95 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 4: If it was really too overnight. Then you were effectively 96 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 4: having a hypo every night, which is not a good 97 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 4: thing exactly. 98 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 3: That's why I I don't know, I'm not conveniently, but 99 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 3: that's why I was concerned. The upshot is I can 100 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: still eat cookies and not worrying. I'm not going to 101 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 3: slip into a coma overnight, and I don't need to 102 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 3: eat a bowl of oats at nine pm anymore. 103 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: Glass and milk would do the trick too. 104 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, but how boring is that? Now, gillespo there's been 105 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: I didn't see it. You were telling me before we 106 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: went live that there's been some interesting news around some 107 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: of the behaviors of young people around smoking and vaping 108 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: and all kinds of hazardous habits, that there's been a 109 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: bit of a turnaround. 110 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 111 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 4: So, I mean avid readers of my work, and I'm 112 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 4: sure there are many of them who are following both 113 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 4: very Yeah, broadcast game mum. It's they will have noted 114 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 4: that I point out in one of those books about 115 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 4: that there's this massive drop off in addictive behavior once 116 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 4: the iPad is introduced. So the stats on addictive behavior 117 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 4: drug taking, smoking, et cetera are accelerating wildly in the 118 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 4: twenty tens, and then the iPad becomes invented and all 119 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 4: those things go off a cliff now, and I put 120 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 4: forward the theory that an explanation for that might be 121 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 4: that perhaps kids are finding easier, cheaper ways to get 122 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 4: doth meane highs than you know, taking risks like buying 123 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 4: drugs and someone And this is kind of, I guess 124 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 4: the latest wave of this. And the Cancer Council in 125 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 4: Australia has been doing something I think in four or 126 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 4: five years now they've been they do an annual survey 127 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 4: of a group of three thousand teenagers and they're just 128 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 4: tracking their use of tobacco products, vapes, you know, nicotine pouches, 129 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 4: those kinds of things, and seeing what that's looking like. 130 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 4: Because it's not that long ago that we would have 131 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 4: had every second politician on the news clutching their pearls 132 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 4: about you know, all these kids are all vaping, so 133 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 4: you know, and and it turns out that that's not 134 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 4: actually what's happening. So vaping did sort of have a 135 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 4: bit of a run, mostly during COVID when stress reducing 136 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 4: behaviors started to be quite a thing. But since then, 137 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 4: what this data from the Cancer Council is telling us 138 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 4: is it's really been dropping quite rapidly. So their latest 139 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 4: set of data that came out today, which is their 140 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 4: April twenty twenty five set, shows that in kids aged 141 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 4: fourteen to seventeen, it's dropped from seventeen and a half 142 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 4: percent of those kids who have ever vaped down to 143 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 4: just fourteen point six percent. So that's a pretty significant 144 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 4: drop in just a few years, and it suggests that 145 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 4: there's a trend here, which is that people will kids 146 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 4: not needing to get a dopamine hit by vaping. And 147 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 4: you might say, oh, that's because they're probably just smoking instead, 148 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 4: but the same thing's happening there too. 149 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 2: So if we look at. 150 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 4: Similar surveys on that cohort, smoking, never smoked has risen 151 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 4: from ninety two percent to ninety four percent of the 152 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 4: same period, So there's there's only six percent of kids 153 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 4: in that age group who have ever smoked now, and 154 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 4: the same sort of things happening in the nicotine pouches 155 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 4: as well as dropped. I mean, very fewer people use 156 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 4: nicotine pouches anyway, but you know, these are the things 157 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 4: people shove up under their you know, their lips and 158 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 4: just have it against their gum for the nicotine hit 159 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 4: dropped from two point one percent to one point nine 160 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 4: percent in the last year, so over overall, nicotines losing 161 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 4: its appeal amongst teenagers. Now you're going to remember teenagers 162 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 4: is an interesting cohort because the way the human brain works, 163 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 4: that's the bit where addiction starts. Everyone who's an addict 164 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 4: probably started whatever the addictive behavior is when they're a teenager. 165 00:09:55,480 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 4: Because the way the human brain is architected is the 166 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 4: thing that stops you becoming an addict is turned off 167 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 4: from the start of puberty to your early twenties. So 168 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 4: most people who are adult addicts to something began whatever 169 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 4: it is they're addicted to when they are a teenager. 170 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 4: So that cohorts really really important to study. You know, 171 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 4: there's lots of studies on alcoholism, for example, that bear all. 172 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 2: Of that out. 173 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 4: But if all of those kids are not getting dopamine hits, 174 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 4: not developing addictions to nicotine, and that's what these stats 175 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 4: seem to say, then why is that now in the 176 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 4: media today. I know you've been tracking it furiously, but 177 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 4: in the media today, everyone you know, from Martha to 178 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 4: Martha is taking credit for. 179 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: This, But. 180 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 4: I haven't heard any really sound biochemical explanations for why 181 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 4: teenagers would suddenly be finding this not appealing. You know, 182 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 4: you hear a lot of this psychobabble stuff about, oh, 183 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 4: they don't like the smell, or they don't like what 184 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 4: it does to their look, or you know whatever. 185 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: But the real. 186 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 4: Thing when you're talking about something potentially addictive is decisions 187 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 4: aren't made on the basis of that kind of stuff. 188 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 4: Decisions are made on the basis of just one theme, 189 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 4: which is does this give me a dopamine hit easier, faster, quicker, 190 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 4: cheaper than the alternatives. And the reality is, in our 191 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 4: society today, a kid can get free dopamine hits that 192 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 4: are much more powerful by fishing their phone out of 193 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 4: their pocket. 194 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: They don't have to go and buy a vape, they. 195 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 4: Don't have to evade all the latest regulations on smoking 196 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 4: and vaping and all that sort of stuff. 197 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 2: They don't have to worry about any of that. 198 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 4: They want a dopamine hit, they get their phone out 199 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 4: and they get on insta. 200 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 2: It's that simple. 201 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 4: We've given every kid in this generation the ability to 202 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 4: self medicate huge amounts of dopamine without all the inconvenience 203 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 4: of having to be bothered drinking, smoking, vaping, whatever, which 204 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 4: is why all those behaviors are dropping in teenagers because 205 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 4: we've suddenly, you know, done wonders in convincing kids that 206 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 4: they're bad for them. Teenagers don't care about adults telling 207 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 4: them that they're doing it because it's easier to get 208 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 4: a hit somewhere else. 209 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 6: Yeah, that's so true, that kids don't give a fuck 210 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 6: about what we tell them. It's like, I'm sure there's 211 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 6: someone somewhere going, oh, the you know, the campaign that 212 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 6: we launched is really effective, it's really doing well. 213 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: You know, the numbers are down. What we're doing is 214 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: working with no actual evidence. That's what they're doing. 215 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: Other than the fact that the numbers are down. 216 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, well they go, well, yeah, but that's that's you know, correlation, 217 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: not causation. But what's going on with booze that young 218 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: kids just don't start with booze like they used to 219 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: in the old days. 220 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 4: Right, what you have a look when you look at 221 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 4: the drinking numbers, you see two distinct trends emerging. So 222 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 4: the total amount of alcohol consumed by teenagers is dropping, 223 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 4: but the occurrence of binge drinking events is increasing, So 224 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 4: it's that overall they're drinking less alcohol, but when they 225 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 4: do drink it, it's a significant consumption, which is two 226 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 4: really bad pieces of information. Well, the overall drop is 227 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 4: a good thing, and it's for the similar reasons I 228 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 4: would put forward as the drop in the nicotine as well, 229 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 4: which is it's easier to get a hit if you 230 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 4: want to minute by a minute dopamine, you don't need 231 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 4: to drink to get it. But what's happening is the 232 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 4: binge drinking events are happening. They're much worse and they're 233 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 4: more frequent, and so whilst that average is out to less, 234 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 4: binge drinking is one of the most dangerous things to 235 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 4: do because it actually starts to re architect the brain 236 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 4: in a teenager to the point where the alcoholism starts 237 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 4: in ten years, but actually can't be undone after that 238 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 4: because the brain gets used. There's a I should explain this. 239 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 4: There's a bit of biochemistry in the brain called gabba gaba, 240 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 4: and GABA actually moderates the effect of dopamine and makes 241 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 4: it harder for us to become addicted. 242 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: During the teen years. 243 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 4: GABA is essentially turned off because one of the many 244 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 4: things it does is allow is stop you going into 245 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 4: puberty from the moment you're born, and so in order 246 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 4: to enter puberty, GABA has to be turned off. So 247 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 4: when it's turned off, you're much more easily addicted to 248 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 4: dopamine producing events, which is why alcohol and anything else 249 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 4: becomes addictive in those years. 250 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 2: The interesting thing about. 251 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 4: Alcohol is though, that it has a very similar chemical 252 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 4: structure to GABBA, and the brain gets used to you 253 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 4: supplying GABA as an artificial source rather than it producing 254 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 4: it itself. And so by the time you get to 255 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 4: your early twenties, if it's been used to you produced, 256 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 4: you know, on a regular basis, having large quantities of 257 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 4: something that looks like gabbat to the brain, the brain says, oh, okay, well, 258 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 4: you're just going to supply this stuff so we won't 259 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 4: produce it, and you end up being in that not 260 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 4: protected state for the rest of your life, which is 261 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 4: why alcoholism is one of the hardest addictions to break, 262 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 4: because it actually changes the way the brain is wire permanently. 263 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: Here's a weird question, right, So you said that, like 264 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: most addictions start or begin anyway if not take hold 265 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: in the teen years, what do you reckon. I mean, 266 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how long we're being around. Depends if 267 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: you go the evolutionarily somewhere around three hundred thousand years 268 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: or something. 269 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 4: Depends what says the start point. I'd go at two 270 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 4: fifteen just to be careful. 271 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: All right, when did they two hundred and fifty thousand years? 272 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: When did When did we start to get addicted? It 273 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,479 Speaker 1: seems like there's a lot of a lot of options 274 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: now if you want to get addiction. Did something. We've 275 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: got more stuff to get addicted to than ever before. 276 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: Like what were teenagers doing five hundred years ago that 277 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: they could get addicted to that. 278 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 4: Could well, this is kind of this is kind of 279 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 4: the hit here is that there wasn't much to be 280 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 4: addicted to. So so the brain dialing down the thing 281 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 4: that stops you becoming addicted, isn't such a wasn't such 282 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 4: a bad thing. There were no giant risks associated with 283 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 4: doing that because there just wasn't that much to be 284 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 4: addicted to. Now, obviously, one of the oldest addictive things 285 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 4: is alcohol. So we first discovered it when we ate 286 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 4: a bit of overripe fruit and it made us a 287 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 4: bit tipsy, and then we started more intentionally constructing it 288 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 4: and because we detected this fabulous effect. So it's been 289 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 4: one of the addictions that's been with us right through evolution. 290 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 4: It's a strange addiction because the substance itself is actually 291 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 4: really poisonous. So not only do we develop an addiction 292 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 4: to it, we also evolved the ability to drink it 293 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 4: in small quantities and not kill ourselves, which is you know, 294 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 4: we can talk about that another day because there's some 295 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 4: interesting biological offshoots from that about how we deal with it. 296 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 4: But so alcohol is the year original addiction. We only 297 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 4: really started to add to that, you know, once we 298 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 4: discovered the powers of tobacco and nicotine and things like that, 299 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 4: initially nicotine snuff which we just directly snorted and so on. 300 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 2: But we're really talking very very recent history. 301 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 4: So alcohol you might take back tens fifteen twenty thousand 302 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 4: years defined when we originally started intentionally producing it, but 303 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 4: other products things based on tobacco, is much more recent. 304 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 4: It's probably in the only last few hundred years, and 305 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 4: to have it at any large scale in the population, 306 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 4: and then we really didn't add to that list very 307 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 4: much until probably the last fifty years when we started 308 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 4: to come up with some well, probably the last one hundred. 309 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 4: You know, we certainly got into the opioid things based 310 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 4: on the opium plant, those sorts of things towards the 311 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 4: end of the nineteenth century, start of the twentieth century, 312 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 4: and then developing through the twentieth century. 313 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 2: But the twentieth century was. 314 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 4: The golden age for substances that could cause addiction. But 315 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 4: even then kind of hard to get. You know, It's 316 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 4: it wasn't like you were, it just wasn't hard to get. 317 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 4: You had to be prepared to hang out in some 318 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 4: fairly shady places in order to get access to substances 319 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 4: that could cause addiction. And even alcohol wasn't exactly easy access, 320 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 4: and smoke weren't either. It's only sort of once you 321 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 4: get into the twenty first century that these things start 322 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 4: to be where something that could produce a dopamine hit 323 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 4: starts to be generally available. We go from a situation, 324 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 4: say with pornography, where you had to be prepared to 325 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 4: hang out by the phishing magazine section in the newspaper 326 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 4: office as store to and you know, just surreptitiously see 327 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 4: if you could rip open the sealed section of the 328 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 4: Playboy and that was your access to pornography to now 329 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 4: you can have videos of anything you can imagine, and 330 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 4: probably many things you can't imagine, twenty four hours a 331 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 4: day on your phone. And that's in the space of 332 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 4: the last twenty years. And it's probably a good example 333 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 4: of how far we've gone with everything addictive. We've gone 334 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 4: from dopamine producing things being really really rare and really 335 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 4: really hard to get hold of to now I've all 336 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 4: the time to everybody. And that's a massive transition in 337 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 4: just the last twenty years. 338 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: Do you reckon that cigarettes will be around in twenty 339 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: years in Australia? I feel like they don't have much 340 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: of a lifespan. 341 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 4: No, no, no, it's not an industry i'd want to 342 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 4: be putting my money into. You know. It's between the 343 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 4: pharmaceutical industry ripping you off and taking the addictivelopment and 344 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 4: selling it in patches instead of you having to sell cigarettes, 345 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 4: and in general the public being mostly against the concept. 346 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 4: The only people who are still smoking are people who 347 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 4: are hardcore addicts. Nobody smokes because they want to smoke. 348 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 4: Nobody wants to be treated like a leper. 349 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: I mean, when you think you're not allowed to advertise them. 350 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: They've got pictures on the front of the packs of 351 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: people's faces falling apart. Every second store that sells cigarettes 352 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: in Melbourne anyway is getting fire bombed. I don't think 353 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: a lot of young people are taking it up right. 354 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 4: Well, no, Well, as you can see from those stats, 355 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 4: you know, ninety four percent of teenagers have never tried 356 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,959 Speaker 4: and don't plan to. I suspect why do that just 357 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 4: to get a dopamine hit? 358 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 2: You know, do. 359 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 4: Something that's that's disgusting and hard to purchase and really 360 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 4: really expensive and the government will tax you to death 361 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 4: on when you can just go and get it for 362 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 4: free from your phone. 363 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: Do you think that some people are genetically more predisposed 364 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: to become addicted? 365 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 4: Well, we all are genetically more predisposed to everything in 366 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 4: that as we've sort of I think we've probably talked 367 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 4: about before. We're all on a normal curve, you know, 368 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 4: the bell shaped curve where you know ninety five percent 369 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 4: of us are in the middle, and then there's two 370 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 4: and a half percent at either end and so and 371 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 4: you can be somewhere down the tail on either side. Well, 372 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 4: the same thing applies for addiction. I mean the beauty 373 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 4: of you know, DNA and mixing up everyone's genes every 374 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 4: time they have sex. Is that you get that protection, 375 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 4: which is every possible combination is built into the population. 376 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 4: So if something comes along and wipes out ninety five 377 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 4: percent of people, there'll still be some who'll survive. 378 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, this is a bit of a departure. But 379 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:20,239 Speaker 1: speaking about the brain and all that stuff, we had 380 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: a lady on the other day called professor Rebecca Lamov 381 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:30,719 Speaker 1: from Harvard. She's an anthropologist but also psychologist and does 382 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff, and we spoke about Mkultra. 383 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: Have you heard about Mkultra who the CIA created a 384 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: program in the sixties and seventies around anyway trying to brainwash, 385 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: trying to get civilians and brainwashing them to be able 386 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: to use them as covert operatives doing sneaky shit for 387 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: the government using psychedelics, specifically LSD. I heard of any 388 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: of that. 389 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 2: The name rings a bell, but I didn't know the 390 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 2: tail of it. 391 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, just just have a little when you know, 392 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: because I know you've got nothing on. You've submitted your 393 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: book now, so. 394 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: Probably in the wondering what to do with myself, you're 395 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: probably in. 396 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: The jakuzi as we spend That's right, Yeah, m k 397 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: Ultra and just have a look at have a bit 398 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: of a read on that. It's so fascinating how they 399 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: they went down this rabbit hole of trying to essentially 400 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: mind's control. 401 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: Did it work? 402 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: Not essentially actually mind control experiments trying to see if 403 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: they could hijack someone's brain turn into uh no, like 404 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: but it was all done, you know, it was all 405 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: government funded but not traceable. But it's it's kind of 406 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: come out now. But yeah, that that stuff is. 407 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 4: That stuff is fascinating when the reality is, if you 408 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 4: really wanted to control someone's brain, it would be pretty 409 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 4: easy to do. You just hope you're taking notes here. 410 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: Tif it's got this down. 411 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 2: Test. 412 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 4: I mean, we see people doing it all the time. 413 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 4: You see Donald Trump do it every day of the week. 414 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 4: The human brain is very, very susceptible to some very 415 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 4: specific manipulations around dopamine feedback loops on oxytocin, which is 416 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 4: oxytocin is the thing that makes us feel good when 417 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 4: we do things that those around us approve of, and 418 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 4: it is a double edged sword because it also makes 419 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 4: us hate the outsiders. So it's an in group drug 420 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 4: in that when you're part of the in group, it 421 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 4: makes the in group draw together stronger and stronger and stronger, 422 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 4: and it becomes impervious to facts or truth or anything 423 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 4: like that. It just and you would have you know, 424 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 4: this is called a cult. But the formula for a 425 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 4: cult is really really simple, which is to generate things 426 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 4: that make the group believe that that's what everybody else 427 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 4: in the group wants to believe. And it doesn't matter 428 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 4: how insane thing is. If everybody if enough people believe 429 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 4: it within the group, you can just keep winding that 430 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 4: harder and harder and harder and harder, and you've effectively 431 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 4: gotten control of their minds. Then, and you've seen in 432 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 4: the United States, for example, that has been used to 433 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 4: seize the presidency. So don't for a minute have anyone 434 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 4: suggest to you it's not possible to control human's brains. 435 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 4: It's very very possible and very easy, and a very 436 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 4: old formula that you can watch being used in real time. 437 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got to do more of that. We need 438 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: to get the numbers up. 439 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, you just need to create a cult. 440 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 4: And I think we've talked about this before, you know, 441 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 4: we just need to get a cold going here. 442 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: I don't know that. I'm not. Yeah, I don't reckon 443 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: be that hard, would it? 444 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 4: No, Well it's not. It's formulaic, right, it is formulate. 445 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 4: You might have to do some things that you don't 446 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 4: agree with, and you might have to abandon your morals, 447 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 4: but it shouldn't be a big problem. 448 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: I've always thought if I was going to start a cult, 449 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: I'd just call it a cult, so we were open, 450 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: We'll clear. 451 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 2: No, that's last thing. You don't do that. 452 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 4: No, you've got to have a higher purpose in mind. 453 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 4: You're exposing the conspiracies of the world. 454 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 2: That's a good one. That's always a good one. 455 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 4: Have people believe that there's a large group of people 456 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 4: out there who are trying to destroy their lives, and 457 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 4: you've got the solution. 458 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: My training partner lovingly referred to as the Crab because 459 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: he looks and moves like a crab, quite often sideways, 460 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: not forwards or backwards. But he is the biggest conspiracy 461 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: theorist in my life. He sends me, he sends me 462 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: probably ten to twenty videos a day. It's something that 463 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: I absolutely have to watch. You've got to watch this. 464 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: You've got to watch this. You know, there was no 465 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: moon landing. There no moon landing, and I'm luck and 466 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: then he goes because humans can't go through the van 467 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: Allen radiation belt and there's not like all some bullshit. 468 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. Maybe there was no moon landing. 469 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, but every. 470 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 2: Day there was a moon landing, they'd be so silly. 471 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: Well, oh but he'll go. But what about the shadows 472 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: on the surface of the moon. The shadows are all wrong? 473 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: Oh god, everything everything, well, you know. 474 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 4: It's sort of like the thing that like it's really 475 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 4: interesting to watch at the moment. I don't know whether 476 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 4: you're keeping up with this in the United States, but 477 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 4: how they've not released the Epstein lists, right, so the 478 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 4: you know that three months ago the Attorney General said 479 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 4: she had on the desk and remembering that the release 480 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 4: of this information was a large part of why a 481 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 4: lot of people voted for Trump. He was going to 482 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 4: expose the corruption and the world conspiracy that led to this, 483 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 4: and now it's not being released, and in fact, they're 484 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 4: now saying it didn't exist at all. 485 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 2: Sorry, it never existed. And that's hard. 486 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 4: That's going to be that's going to cause that reminds 487 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 4: me when you read historically about there were these great 488 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 4: movements at the end of the nineteenth century that were 489 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 4: about the end of the world. Right, end of the 490 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 4: world was about to happen, particularly in the wild West 491 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 4: in America. There were quite a few religious cults built 492 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 4: around this notion that the end of the world will 493 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 4: happen on Tuesday, the seventeenth of September. 494 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: Eighteen, the last book in the Bible. Yeah. 495 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 4: Now, as you might have figured out by now, it 496 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 4: didn't happen. And the people in those cults always had 497 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 4: this issue when you got to the point, because it 498 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 4: was a very specific point. It was usually a date 499 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 4: and a time when it was going to happen, and 500 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 4: then it didn't. And often people were heavily committed to this, 501 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 4: like they sold off all their assets, they divorced their wives. 502 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 2: Or whatever. 503 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 4: The requirements of the cult were massive life changing events 504 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 4: that required this commitment, and thousands and thousands of people 505 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 4: did them, and then it didn't happen. And the interesting 506 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 4: thing is what happened to those people. Now, around sixty 507 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 4: percent of them walked away when it didn't happen. Forty 508 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 4: percent didn't, which for me, is the extraordinary thing they 509 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 4: bought into the next layer of Well because of this, 510 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 4: that or the other, it didn't happen, and now it's 511 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 4: going to happen, you know, you know, in Tuesday, in 512 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 4: three months time or whatever it was. The interesting thing 513 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 4: is when it doesn't happen, when the thing, when the prophecy, 514 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 4: you would think that that should destroy the cult, but 515 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 4: it doesn't. 516 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: No, because logic has nothing to do with it. I mean, 517 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: I think I told you back in the day, I 518 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: was in the middle of one of those Like I'm 519 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: going to say, it was pretty much a cult. It 520 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: was a Christian church, but it was non denominational, it 521 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: was evangelical, it was very There was good stuff, but 522 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: there was also scary stuff. And we were told, I 523 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: was told in the very early eighties that by the 524 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: nineties there'd be a one world government and be a 525 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: cashless society and we shouldn't buy anything, like we shouldn't 526 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: buy we shouldn't commit ourselves and have like a mortgage 527 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: or anything. And yeah, we were told that back then. 528 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: That and it was all referenced through the Book of Revelation, 529 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: and you know, it says, it says that this is 530 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: the actual King James. It says no man shall buy 531 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: or sell save he has the mark of the Beast, 532 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: And it just means that nobody can buy stuff or 533 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: sell stuff unless they have this mark on the back 534 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: of their right hand or their forehead. Right And we 535 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: all believed that. We believed that. I believed it, you know, 536 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: and then eventually obviously go, well, that didn't happen. But yeah, 537 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: it's like when you're in the middle of group think 538 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: and like you said, there's a lot of stosin going on. 539 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: There's a lot of connection, and you feel like you 540 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: belong and you feel valued and seen and love connected. 541 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the powerful of this is people sit back 542 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 4: and they say, never going to happen to me. 543 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 2: I'm way too smart for this rubbish. 544 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: It's in emotion, like logic goes out the window. 545 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 4: It's not even emotion, it's biochemistry. It's it's we have 546 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 4: a built in system to make sure we do what 547 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 4: other people want us to do. 548 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: And it is a double edged sword. It both gives. 549 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 4: Us the power to rule the world in that, unlike 550 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 4: any other species on the planet, we can cooperate in 551 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 4: large groups of strangers that no other species can do. 552 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 4: That but it also the downside to it is that 553 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 4: it can be manipulated by bad actors. 554 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, wow covered some territory went from vapes 555 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: to cults, bloody MK ultra it to brainwashing. 556 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 2: That's what happens that we've got nothing to talk about. 557 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: Plenty to talk about. Quickly, What can you tell us, 558 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: if anything, about your new book that you just pressed 559 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: the submit button onto your publisher. 560 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 4: Well, it's it's look. I mean, we've been back and 561 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 4: forth over the title. So the publisher likes the title 562 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 4: like something that says something about an attention recovery plan. 563 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 4: I initially called it hyper focus that I don't know. 564 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 4: I just like the idea of Scatterbrain being somewhere in there. 565 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 4: So the idea here is that there is a world 566 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 4: out there intentionally trying to destroy our focus, trying for 567 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 4: highly profitable means to destroy our focus, and this book 568 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 4: is meant to be a guide to protecting yourself and 569 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 4: exploiting the fact that everybody else has their focus destroyed 570 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 4: to your own benefit. 571 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: I think Scatterbrain's are great title. I think I like it. 572 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: I think fuck your publisher, tell him, like really it's like. 573 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: But I think also it depends a little on the subtitle. 574 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: You know. It's like a friend of mine, Paul Taylor, 575 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: wrote a book called Death by Comfort. It's a really 576 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: good book, by the way, and he just took Death 577 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: by Comfort and he just talks about and when I like, 578 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: he talks about a lot of stuff I talk about 579 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: and you've probably spoken about he talks about. And as 580 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: soon as I heard that title, I went, dude, you 581 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: killed that title. That is a great title, and it's 582 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: selling really well and it's quite successful, but I think 583 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: the title is paramount. Like I won't bore you, but yeah, 584 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: I So I wrote a very rudimentary book years ago, 585 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: could Stop Fucking Around, which was thirty Principles for a 586 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: Better Life. Right, it's really basic, really fundamental. And then 587 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: Penguin approached me and said, we want you to do 588 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,239 Speaker 1: a bigger, better version of that. But you know, two 589 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty pages, eighty thousand words, blah blah blah 590 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: blah blah, And then it doesn't even matter. I might 591 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,919 Speaker 1: have told you this story. But so I wrote a new, 592 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: a better, bigger book I wrote. I spent eight months 593 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 1: writing pretty much eight hours a day, about two hundred 594 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: and forty days in a row, no days off. Submitted 595 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: it when I had to way way better book and 596 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: they wanted to so I thought it was going to 597 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: be stop fucking around two or I don't know. They 598 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: wanted to call it pull your finger out. And so 599 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: I went into this meeting and that the whole thing 600 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: with the marketing people and the you know everyone. There's 601 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: like twelve people in a boardroom and me and the 602 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: new like the book with the title is under it's 603 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: on an a frame, under a sheet. They pull off 604 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 1: the sheet to reveal it to me, the new title, 605 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: and I go I hate it. To everyone in the room, 606 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: I go, I hate it, and they're like, oh no, 607 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: it tested really well. I'm like, it won't sell. And 608 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: it literally didn't sell. And that was with I would 609 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: have done at least fifty interviews for that book and 610 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: the first book I self published, and it outsold the 611 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: Penguin one by probably seven or eight to one. Wow, 612 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: it's not as good a book. It's not as good 613 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,240 Speaker 1: a book. It's just that the title of the second 614 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: book is shit. So I'm all about having a great 615 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: title that's going to make people either pick it up 616 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: physically pick it up and look at it, turn it over, 617 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: read the back cover, or get their attention, because I mean, 618 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, right now there's ocean of books. 619 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 4: That being said, I'm notoriously bad at titles. So the 620 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 4: book that sold the most that I've ever written was 621 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 4: my first one called Sweet Poison, and I'm not a title. 622 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 2: Not my title. I wanted to call it the Fat Monkey. 623 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: So that Oh, there's so many things I could say 624 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: for the back of that. Yeah, I know that's cool. 625 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: But also a good title is a good title, and 626 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: so they came out of the scatter Brain is scatter 627 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: Brain is a good title? 628 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 2: Look, I like it, but I don't know. 629 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: We'll see, well everyone if you think. 630 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 2: But what we don't do not fire people up about this, 631 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 2: because I. 632 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 4: Don't want to get in for the trouble with my 633 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 4: publisher when I'm having delicate negotiations about such things. 634 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: No, fuck it, We're going to fire right up. Don't 635 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: worry about that. I'm going to there's a call to 636 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: action going out. No, there's not panic. Not What might 637 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: the the tagline be or the sub I. 638 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 4: Don't know, it'll be something something about I had. I 639 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 4: had a few thoughts. One was a strategic plan for 640 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 4: reclaiming your mind in an age of distraction or something 641 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 4: like that, or a recovery plan or something like that. 642 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: If you can get that down a word or two 643 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: or three. But good, really good. 644 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of thing. Look, I don't know. 645 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 4: I'm I'm the first to admit I'm really really bad 646 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 4: at marketing. And there are people who have paid a 647 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 4: lot of money to be really really good at marketing, 648 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 4: So I tend to trust what they say about such things. 649 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 4: Although I'm now paying attention to the story you told. 650 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,959 Speaker 1: Well, I think I think, in general terms, marketing people 651 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: are better than you and me generally, But I don't 652 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: think always, and I don't think, you know, not not 653 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: everything that's you know, most products fail, Most books don't sell, 654 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, to any significant level. So not every marketing 655 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: person that comes up with a concept or an idea 656 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 1: or a cover or a title nails it. I'd say 657 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: most don't. So definitely, you know, I would definitely listen, 658 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: but I wouldn't necessarily discount my own now soolution and judge. 659 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 4: You know, of course that the contract that you signed 660 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 4: with a publisher, and you no doubt had this pointed 661 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 4: out to you when you objected to their title says 662 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 4: that they get the final call on such things. 663 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it. I got it, and I was. 664 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: I mean I was, you know, I was you know 665 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: they I knew that all the way along. I mean, 666 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: they paid me up front to write the book. And 667 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: then you know, then I you know, got a whopping 668 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: three bucks a book of the thirty bucks that sold 669 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: for so so that that out of thirty bucks, because 670 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: you saw that paid for food for three days. So yeah, 671 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: that set me up for life that bad. So I'm 672 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 1: crushing it. 673 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 2: That's That's the bit I always love when people say 674 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 2: to me. 675 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 4: You know you you're just you're writing this for the money. 676 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: People don't really understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I made great to. 677 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 4: Say goodbye, But that last bit out if you want 678 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:51,760 Speaker 4: to it sounds nice to be boring. 679 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,720 Speaker 1: Anyway, that was the only time you're any good today. 680 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 1: We'll leave it in. 681 00:38:58,719 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 2: A see it later guy. 682 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: Thanks mate, so yea