1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,350 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview, I'm Sean Aylmer. Last 2 00:00:07,350 --> 00:00:10,410 Sean Aylmer: year, the Matildas set new records in Australia for television 3 00:00:10,410 --> 00:00:13,920 Sean Aylmer: audiences with millions tuning in to watch. The numbers were 4 00:00:13,980 --> 00:00:16,980 Sean Aylmer: staggering, but it really drove home the point that the 5 00:00:16,980 --> 00:00:19,709 Sean Aylmer: way we measure TV audiences in Australia is a little 6 00:00:19,710 --> 00:00:22,020 Sean Aylmer: out of date. A lot of people don't watch linear 7 00:00:22,020 --> 00:00:24,989 Sean Aylmer: broadcast TV. Plenty are now catching up using catch up 8 00:00:24,989 --> 00:00:28,469 Sean Aylmer: video, watching it whenever they want, or streaming on various 9 00:00:28,469 --> 00:00:31,559 Sean Aylmer: devices. So this week, after a number of years of 10 00:00:31,559 --> 00:00:36,059 Sean Aylmer: development, the TV industry introduced a major overhaul of audience 11 00:00:36,059 --> 00:00:38,460 Sean Aylmer: measurement. For many of us, the numbers are an interesting 12 00:00:38,460 --> 00:00:40,979 Sean Aylmer: piece of trivia, how many people are watching any given 13 00:00:40,979 --> 00:00:44,820 Sean Aylmer: show, which ones are hits, etc. But for media companies 14 00:00:44,820 --> 00:00:48,960 Sean Aylmer: and advertisers, these numbers are big business. Karen Halligan is 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,859 Sean Aylmer: the Chief Executive Officer of OzTAM, the company responsible for 16 00:00:52,859 --> 00:00:57,000 Sean Aylmer: measuring TV audiences in Australia. OzTAM is independent, but it's owned 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,749 Sean Aylmer: by the major commercial networks 7, 9 and 10. Karen, 18 00:01:01,020 --> 00:01:02,340 Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear and Greed. 19 00:01:02,820 --> 00:01:05,040 Karen Halligan: Thank you very much, Sean. It's lovely to be with you. 20 00:01:05,370 --> 00:01:07,979 Sean Aylmer: So how do you work with all those? 7, 9 21 00:01:07,980 --> 00:01:09,959 Sean Aylmer: and 10, I thought they were ferocious competitors. 22 00:01:12,330 --> 00:01:15,720 Karen Halligan: They are ferocious competitors, but when it comes to the 23 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,620 Karen Halligan: television industry at large and the importance of it to 24 00:01:19,620 --> 00:01:22,979 Karen Halligan: Australian community, I think they're pretty united on making sure 25 00:01:22,980 --> 00:01:24,870 Karen Halligan: that they're sending out the right messages to the right 26 00:01:24,870 --> 00:01:25,890 Karen Halligan: people at the right time. 27 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,670 Sean Aylmer: So presumably, the total audience is the Australian population, however 28 00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:32,940 Sean Aylmer: big that is, 26, 27 million or so. How does this 29 00:01:33,060 --> 00:01:34,290 Sean Aylmer: new system work? 30 00:01:35,010 --> 00:01:38,490 Karen Halligan: So look, previously we were reporting out of Metro TV 31 00:01:38,490 --> 00:01:42,720 Karen Halligan: independently, the regional television markets audience were being cut independently, 32 00:01:43,049 --> 00:01:46,199 Karen Halligan: BVOD numbers were being put out independently, but we weren't 33 00:01:46,199 --> 00:01:49,560 Karen Halligan: looking at consolidated audience viewing. And as you sort of 34 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,770 Karen Halligan: mentioned before, viewing behaviors have changed significantly, so a lot 35 00:01:52,770 --> 00:01:57,329 Karen Halligan: of people are migrating from linear television into BVOD viewing, 36 00:01:57,330 --> 00:02:01,920 Karen Halligan: into different devices, so on their phone through connected televisions 37 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,099 Karen Halligan: or through iPads. So what we've done with the changes 38 00:02:05,100 --> 00:02:07,650 Karen Halligan: to the system is we've actually aggregated all of that 39 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:12,298 Karen Halligan: information, looked at when they're viewing different programs, so again, 40 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:14,940 Karen Halligan: some people watch it in the moment when it's on 41 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:18,150 Karen Halligan: air, particularly things like sport, but when you get to 42 00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:22,320 Karen Halligan: other programs like reality TV or some other programs specifically, 43 00:02:22,619 --> 00:02:24,870 Karen Halligan: then people watch it in catch up time a few 44 00:02:24,870 --> 00:02:28,169 Karen Halligan: days after the initial event. So the new numbers bring 45 00:02:28,169 --> 00:02:30,750 Karen Halligan: all of that together to give a complete picture of 46 00:02:30,750 --> 00:02:34,080 Karen Halligan: what's actually happening from content from the individual broadcasters and 47 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,988 Karen Halligan: how far that's actually traveling to reach Australian people. 48 00:02:37,710 --> 00:02:39,899 Sean Aylmer: Is there a sense of how much of the audience 49 00:02:39,929 --> 00:02:44,459 Sean Aylmer: is not real time free to air? So my household, actually, everything 50 00:02:44,460 --> 00:02:46,320 Sean Aylmer: we do is stream, so I don't have the ability 51 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,840 Sean Aylmer: to flick between channels as I used to, I probably 52 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,450 Sean Aylmer: need to set up my TV, but there it is. 53 00:02:51,660 --> 00:02:54,030 Sean Aylmer: Is there a sense of how much is real time 54 00:02:54,030 --> 00:02:56,639 Sean Aylmer: free to air? So I'm actually watching the TV show 55 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,458 Sean Aylmer: as its first broadcast versus the rest. 56 00:03:00,089 --> 00:03:03,030 Karen Halligan: Look, the way that people consume content is changing all 57 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:04,919 Karen Halligan: of the time. So the answer to that question is 58 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,200 Karen Halligan: really dependent on what's going on at that specific point 59 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,329 Karen Halligan: in time. So if you look at things like the Australian 60 00:03:09,330 --> 00:03:12,300 Karen Halligan: Open, which has happened recently, a huge proportion of the 61 00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:15,809 Karen Halligan: population were watching it in real time. So finals and 62 00:03:15,809 --> 00:03:18,359 Karen Halligan: things like that, people will watch less in the catch- 63 00:03:18,359 --> 00:03:22,380 Karen Halligan: up context. When it gets to other programs, that actually 64 00:03:22,380 --> 00:03:25,889 Karen Halligan: changes. So there's sort of no real set specific measure 65 00:03:25,889 --> 00:03:27,780 Karen Halligan: as to how many people are watching in real time 66 00:03:27,780 --> 00:03:30,120 Karen Halligan: and what the delay is because it does actually change 67 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,000 Karen Halligan: dependent on what the content is at that specific point 68 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,620 Karen Halligan: in time from the broadcasters. 69 00:03:35,039 --> 00:03:37,500 Sean Aylmer: What drove this? Is this coming from the networks or 70 00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:39,840 Sean Aylmer: is this coming from the advertisers wanting better data? 71 00:03:40,410 --> 00:03:43,260 Karen Halligan: Look, I think there's both of those things that are 72 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:46,559 Karen Halligan: playing out at the moment. So look, it's in the interest of 73 00:03:46,559 --> 00:03:49,708 Karen Halligan: the broadcasters, I think that's been no surprise to anyone. 74 00:03:50,250 --> 00:03:54,570 Karen Halligan: And questions get asked around broadcasters pushing out their numbers, but 75 00:03:54,570 --> 00:03:56,730 Karen Halligan: the reality of the matter is we haven't actually been 76 00:03:56,730 --> 00:03:59,340 Karen Halligan: giving the complete picture historically. So I think it's a 77 00:03:59,340 --> 00:04:02,730 Karen Halligan: pretty reasonable sort of approach from the broadcasters to make 78 00:04:02,730 --> 00:04:05,070 Karen Halligan: sure that they're actually putting out that complete picture moving 79 00:04:05,070 --> 00:04:07,950 Karen Halligan: forward. And as you sort of mentioned, it does drive 80 00:04:07,950 --> 00:04:11,790 Karen Halligan: revenues, it does drive the success of the individual programmings 81 00:04:12,029 --> 00:04:14,640 Karen Halligan: and how they actually commission shows into the future. So 82 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,660 Karen Halligan: from a broadcaster perspective, the data's incredibly important that it's 83 00:04:18,660 --> 00:04:22,920 Karen Halligan: accurate and comprehensive and reflects total viewing. From an advertiser 84 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,400 Karen Halligan: point of view, it's more important than ever for data- 85 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,719 Karen Halligan: driven marketing to come into play. So advertisers need to 86 00:04:30,779 --> 00:04:33,240 Karen Halligan: pivot the way they spend their money, they need to 87 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,150 Karen Halligan: have a look at how they capture audiences that are 88 00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:39,419 Karen Halligan: fragmenting and consuming media in different ways. So I think 89 00:04:39,420 --> 00:04:42,839 Karen Halligan: it's equally important for them to make informed decisions as 90 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,269 Karen Halligan: to where people are at any point in time and 91 00:04:45,270 --> 00:04:47,910 Karen Halligan: how best to invest their money when they sit down 92 00:04:47,910 --> 00:04:50,099 Karen Halligan: at the boardroom table with CEOs and CFOs. 93 00:04:51,060 --> 00:04:53,070 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Karen, we'll be back in a minute. 94 00:04:59,339 --> 00:05:03,300 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Karen Halligan, Chief Executive Officer of OzTAM. 95 00:05:04,559 --> 00:05:07,919 Sean Aylmer: I'd imagine this is bringing the network community, I was 96 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,109 Sean Aylmer: going to say to the 21st century, that's probably a 97 00:05:10,110 --> 00:05:12,870 Sean Aylmer: bit harsh, but again, some of the big tech platforms 98 00:05:12,870 --> 00:05:16,410 Sean Aylmer: who are incredibly data- rich, does this allow the networks 99 00:05:16,410 --> 00:05:19,049 Sean Aylmer: to better compete with that social media crowd? 100 00:05:19,860 --> 00:05:23,159 Karen Halligan: Yeah, look, I think without question, the investment that's gone 101 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,589 Karen Halligan: into data from the TV networks to actually get this 102 00:05:25,589 --> 00:05:28,830 Karen Halligan: picture is for them to actually be able to compete 103 00:05:28,830 --> 00:05:32,580 Karen Halligan: with the changes in consumer behavior. I think that one 104 00:05:32,580 --> 00:05:35,520 Karen Halligan: of the credits to the television industry is there's a really rigorous 105 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,969 Karen Halligan: independent approach to measurement and how they actually do that. 106 00:05:38,969 --> 00:05:41,370 Karen Halligan: So we put a lot of time and effort into 107 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:46,260 Karen Halligan: independent verification of the data and what actually goes into the models 108 00:05:46,260 --> 00:05:48,240 Karen Halligan: and how all of these are born. We do independent 109 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,539 Karen Halligan: audits of how the information's sort of pulled together. So 110 00:05:51,540 --> 00:05:54,779 Karen Halligan: it's really important that we have a robust and transparent 111 00:05:54,809 --> 00:05:58,920 Karen Halligan: independent measurement metric for the television industry to justify spend. 112 00:05:58,980 --> 00:06:02,640 Karen Halligan: And does that help the television industry compete with all 113 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,550 Karen Halligan: channels, not just the big tech companies, but other channels? 114 00:06:05,550 --> 00:06:06,690 Karen Halligan: Yeah, it definitely does. 115 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,259 Sean Aylmer: Presumably advertisers can target much better under this system the 116 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:12,029 Sean Aylmer: customers that they're trying to reach? 117 00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:15,719 Karen Halligan: Yeah. Yeah, without question. So they'll get a better understanding 118 00:06:15,719 --> 00:06:19,710 Karen Halligan: of who's watching, when they're watching, on what device and 119 00:06:19,710 --> 00:06:21,690 Karen Halligan: at what time. So is it in real time or 120 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:24,089 Karen Halligan: is it in delay? So that's definitely beneficial. 121 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,178 Sean Aylmer: So we're only, well, let's face it, it only started 122 00:06:27,178 --> 00:06:28,950 Sean Aylmer: this week, so we're only a few days in, maybe 123 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:32,400 Sean Aylmer: a bit early for a response so far, but presumably 124 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,250 Sean Aylmer: there's been a lot of industry consultation before this occurred. 125 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,849 Karen Halligan: Yeah, yeah. So look, I think the response is pretty early 126 00:06:38,850 --> 00:06:43,229 Karen Halligan: days. The television industry have been obviously really embracing of 127 00:06:43,230 --> 00:06:45,839 Karen Halligan: actually getting the true picture out there to their audiences. 128 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,248 Karen Halligan: We've worked collaboratively with the Media Federation of Australia that 129 00:06:50,250 --> 00:06:53,309 Karen Halligan: represents all of the advertising agencies who actually invest on 130 00:06:53,309 --> 00:06:56,070 Karen Halligan: behalf of their clients. So we've been consulting with them. 131 00:06:56,580 --> 00:06:59,789 Karen Halligan: Worth noting this is the beginning of a year of 132 00:06:59,790 --> 00:07:03,299 Karen Halligan: change for the television industry. So what we're doing at 133 00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:06,509 Karen Halligan: this initial point is getting people familiar with the numbers 134 00:07:06,509 --> 00:07:08,639 Karen Halligan: over the course of the next 12 months. There's a 135 00:07:08,639 --> 00:07:12,119 Karen Halligan: whole lot of system upgrades and integrations that are going 136 00:07:12,119 --> 00:07:15,300 Karen Halligan: on within the agency landscape to get clients ready to 137 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:17,760 Karen Halligan: be able to trade and transact on these new numbers. 138 00:07:18,150 --> 00:07:20,429 Karen Halligan: So it's kind of a year of evolution for the 139 00:07:20,429 --> 00:07:23,460 Karen Halligan: industry. And then towards the end of the year, we're 140 00:07:23,460 --> 00:07:26,130 Karen Halligan: rolling out a product called VOD Streaming, which allows clients 141 00:07:26,130 --> 00:07:28,529 Karen Halligan: to get a true picture of reach and frequency across 142 00:07:28,529 --> 00:07:31,470 Karen Halligan: the different broadcasters across one unique platform. And I think 143 00:07:31,470 --> 00:07:34,320 Karen Halligan: that will be really beneficial for advertisers moving forward towards 144 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:34,950 Karen Halligan: the end of the year. 145 00:07:35,610 --> 00:07:37,560 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So Karen, this time next year, we're going to 146 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,420 Sean Aylmer: invite you back on to see exactly where you're up 147 00:07:39,420 --> 00:07:41,549 Sean Aylmer: to. But is the goal that in a year's time 148 00:07:41,550 --> 00:07:46,080 Sean Aylmer: or so, it's much easier for media buyers or advertisers 149 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,440 Sean Aylmer: or agencies to find the audience that they want to target? 150 00:07:50,220 --> 00:07:54,000 Karen Halligan: Yeah. Well look, I think ease of transaction and ease 151 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,829 Karen Halligan: of buying of broadcaster inventory is incredibly important to the 152 00:07:58,830 --> 00:08:02,849 Karen Halligan: agency community. And I think in turn also to the 153 00:08:02,849 --> 00:08:07,560 Karen Halligan: marketeers who invest their money, I think historically it's been 154 00:08:08,070 --> 00:08:11,160 Karen Halligan: quite a process to do sort of television and different 155 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,518 Karen Halligan: buying inventory, it's been on a journey of improvement and 156 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,759 Karen Halligan: optimization. And without question, we're going to look at ways 157 00:08:17,759 --> 00:08:21,359 Karen Halligan: to how we can optimize available inventory to advertisers and 158 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,889 Karen Halligan: insights that support that. 159 00:08:23,339 --> 00:08:25,860 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So this is obviously a first in Australia, what about the 160 00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:28,410 Sean Aylmer: rest of the world? Are they on this journey too? 161 00:08:28,410 --> 00:08:30,990 Sean Aylmer: I'm sure they're on the journey, are they further advanced 162 00:08:30,990 --> 00:08:31,200 Sean Aylmer: than we are? 163 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,339 Karen Halligan: Yeah. No, look, I think it's a great question, Sean. 164 00:08:36,059 --> 00:08:39,059 Karen Halligan: Some of our team, the OzTAM team, went over to the Global Measurement 165 00:08:39,059 --> 00:08:43,230 Karen Halligan: Conference. That is actually a real thing that actually happens. 166 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,858 Karen Halligan: And at that conference, the feedback was that we were 167 00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:51,150 Karen Halligan: the envy of many countries. Everyone is on the journey. 168 00:08:51,150 --> 00:08:54,360 Karen Halligan: There are different statuses in different markets. So I think 169 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,389 Karen Halligan: in the US, they've got a much more fragmented currency 170 00:08:57,389 --> 00:09:00,569 Karen Halligan: set up with different people trading off their own currencies 171 00:09:00,570 --> 00:09:04,470 Karen Halligan: or variations. Other countries are also in the process of 172 00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:08,160 Karen Halligan: providing consolidated numbers across BVOD and television. But to my 173 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,159 Karen Halligan: understanding, and we have been told this at that conference 174 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,530 Karen Halligan: and more recently, we are the first country to be able to 175 00:09:13,530 --> 00:09:18,570 Karen Halligan: provide consolidated overnight complete ratings at a national level with 176 00:09:18,570 --> 00:09:21,720 Karen Halligan: BVOD included. So we are leading the way in this territory. 177 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,360 Sean Aylmer: Good luck with that, Karen, and thank you for talking 178 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:25,290 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 179 00:09:25,830 --> 00:09:28,049 Karen Halligan: No problem. Thank you very much. Thanks for your time. 180 00:09:28,380 --> 00:09:31,139 Sean Aylmer: That was Karen Halligan, CEO of OzTAM. This is the 181 00:09:31,139 --> 00:09:33,570 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for 182 00:09:33,570 --> 00:09:35,968 Sean Aylmer: the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's best business 183 00:09:35,969 --> 00:09:38,699 Sean Aylmer: podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.