WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 10 June 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:07.680 Late Welcome to the Late Debate. Thanks for joining us 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.240 on the Late Debate. I'm James Macpherson with Caleb Bond 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:12.960 and freyer Leitch. Coming up tonight our dope of the 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.520 day at Queensland tafe teacher who tried to sell college 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:18.880 property on Facebook marketplace. 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:20.560 No idea how he got court. 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:23.840 Plus when we look at what's making news tomorrow, members 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.320 of the public will be allowed to carry pepper spray 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.840 in the Northern Territory for self defense and the Career 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.600 Mail reveals the eyewatering amount Queensland motorists have been fined 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:35.600 in traffic offenses. 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:37.040 All of that coming up. 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:41.239 Shortly, But first, the Federal Court has ruled that a 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.720 non citizen sex offender should be allowed to stay in Australia. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.360 In other words, no, the government cannot deport this sex offender. 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.479 And I'm reticent to say it, but I think I 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.760 agree with the court on this one. There's no question 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:00.400 the man should be deported. A Somali refugee who pled 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.360 guilty to an indecent act in front of a child 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.680 on public transport. But the issue is how long it 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.959 took for the Albanese government to get around to try 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.360 to deport him. The sex offender's visa was upheld by 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.520 the administras of Tribunal in April twenty twenty one, but 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.720 it wasn't until June twenty twenty four, and after media coverage, 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.800 that the then Immigration Minister Andrew Jiles finally got around 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.679 to trying to deport the guy, three years and two 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:36.800 months after the event. The Federal Court Judge Christopher Horn 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.479 said in his ruling, if the Minister is to exercise 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.320 the power to set aside the original decision and cancel 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.880 the visa, the Minister must do so within a reasonable time. 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.520 Otherwise the connection with the original decision as the object 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.080 of the power will be lost, and it can no 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.720 longer be said that the Minister is addressing or responding 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.400 to the state of affairs produced by or resulting from 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.000 the original decision. 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:02.040 Well, I don't think. 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.240 There's any question at all that former Immigration Minister Andrew 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:10.000 Giles was responding to the original issue. He was responding 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.239 to the media attention. In other words, he acted three 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.640 years and two months later to try to deport the 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.680 man not to protect Australian citizens, but to protect his 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.880 own reputation and that of a labor government, who we 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.760 all know is weak on borders and on immigration. 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.040 Oftentimes, Caleb, we blame. 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.600 The legal system for stuffing up these things and preventing 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.960 the deportation of people who should be evicted from this country. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.400 But in this instance, I think the court's got it right. 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.920 The fault lies with the political class, specifically the Albanese 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:44.720 government and Andrew Giles. 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:44.919 Well. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.480 The cause is simply trying to uphold good governance and 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.440 it's not often that the courts do these things. And 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.120 of course I'd like to see this guy deported. I 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.360 do believe in ministerial discretion he ought to have the 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:01.160 power to deport people in these cases. But those decisions 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:05.480 should be made as soon as someone is convicted of 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.840 a crime. Once you've been convicted, you've been sent to jail. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.959 Once you walk out of the front gates of that jail, 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:15.079 you should be on the next plane out of the country. 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.520 If you are not a citizen and we have somewhere 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:18.600 we can deport you to. 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.000 These are decisions to be made three four years down 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:22.600 the line. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.040 Because the Australian found it out before you did and 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:27.680 wrote it up in the newspaper. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.680 Because in those intervening three years and again. You know, 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:32.320 I hate to sound like I'm. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:36.320 Defending a sex offender, but you by not deporting him 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.840 when he's walked out of jail or after the conviction, 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.240 you've given him the opportunity to continue or to set 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.000 up a life in Australia. And so three years down 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.280 the line you then say to someone, oh, sorry, buddy, 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:51.000 we got it wrong three years ago. Now it's time 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.600 for you to buzz off. In the meantime, he's made 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.160 his friends, he may well have started a family, so 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.760 many things you can do in three years, bought a house, 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.360 whatever it might be, and all of a sudden we go, 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:02.920 oh gee, we made a mistake. 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:04.120 We've got to get rid of you. 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.200 These decisions should be made immediately, The minister should be 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.360 on top of them, and the court is simply saying 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.640 that is how things should be run. And if it 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.360 takes one guy who ought to be deported not being 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:16.280 deported to. 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.520 Get that message through to the government, I think it's 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:18.960 worth it. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.599 I don't disagree with you, Caleb that obviously this was 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.760 a failure of the Immigration minister to deport this serious 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:31.040 repeat offender in the first place. However, I do disagree 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.520 with the Federal Court's decision in this matter, because it's 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.240 very clear in the Migration Act ministers have the discretion 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:41.159 to intervene and cancel people's visas and that is at 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:45.919 their discretion. There is no time constraint in the Act 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.240 on when that discretion should be exercised. So while I 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.000 agree with you that he waited three years too long, 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.000 I think in this instance the judge has made up 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.320 a time frame within which you should use that discretion. 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.600 That is simple not in the law. The law's very 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.599 clear the minister has the discretion, there is nothing about 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:07.800 it being it has to be within a certain amount 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.600 of time or reasonable time. And then once you invent that, 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.400 well what is a reasonable time? Three weeks, three months, 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:13.880 three years? 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.240 Which is because those who wrote the law never anticipated 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.520 in immigration minister like Andrew. I know, I know he 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.640 would be asleep for three years and two months be 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.280 more getting around and doing his job. 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.839 That may be true, but why should serious offenders benefit 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.680 from bureaucratic incompetence and why should Australians be put at 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.719 risk and criminals not be deported just because we have 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.240 an immigration minister that can't do his job on time. 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.640 Even though he failed in his job to do it 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.359 in a timely manner. That is not necessarily against the. 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:45.880 Law, because everyone, including criminals, unfortunately, are entitled to procedural fairness. 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.880 There was a problem clearly with the Administrative Appeals Tribunal 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.679 through which this case originally went, where he was given 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.280 the right to stay in the country. That was a 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.000 serious issue that went on four years. It was only 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.320 blown open by the Australian So the Federal government took 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.960 no issue with the decisions of the Administrative Appeal Tribunal. 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.280 Four years allowed that problem to festa where people were 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.200 allowed illegal people who have committed crimes in this country 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.799 while on visas were allowed to stay in the country 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.960 on the flimsiest of reasons, and the federal government saw 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.240 no problem with that. All they tried to do was 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.000 save face. The court is simply saying that you are 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.680 entitled to procedural fairness, and the minister failed to deliver 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:26.600 the good news. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.160 The good news is the government can appeal this decision 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.360 and I expected around seven to eight years from Yeah 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:33.680 they probably. 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.760 Yes, I know, and Caleb, that's a valid point. Everyone 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.960 should be entitled to procedural fairness. But just because the 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.240 decision to cancel his visa was delayed, does not mean 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.960 that procedural fantas resigned because the criminal still got to 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.760 appeal the cancelation of the visa, So even though it 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:51.560 was delayed, fairness was not denied. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:53.880 That there's a perception issue here, though Freyer, it could 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.159 well be argued that if the minister had no problem 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.320 with this man staying in Australia for three years until 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.039 it appeared in the Australia, that the issue is not 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:03.120 in his sex offense. 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.400 The issue is the publicity and that's. 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.320 A big bob and that's where I agree with you. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.000 The problem with this government is that Giles only seemed 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.440 to care once his own failures were blown up in 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.000 the media. But that doesn't change the legal standing of 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:16.560 the decision. 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.240 How Typically, now, I'm going to start this story with 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.240 a quote for you. Let me read this to you. 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.480 It says we stand at a pivotal moment in our 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.440 community's history. This this sounds like a rousing sort of speech, 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.600 doesn't it. The acquisition of thirty plus acres in Mikolam 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.720 isn't just about land. It's about securing our children's future 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.240 and establishing a legacy that will serve generations to come. 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.680 And it might sound like I'm reading to you from 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.760 the manifesto of the boy Scouts or something like that. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.600 I'm actually talking about a big Islamic compound that some 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.160 people want to build in Victoria. Of course, they said 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.560 Michelm before is the suburb in Melbourne where they want 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:55.080 to do this. There's a boke by the name of 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.960 Sheik Abu Hamza. He also goes by Samir Motardi. He 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:04.040 runs a charity called Iis in a World Aid and 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.000 he's trying to raise three and a half million dollars 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.920 to build an Islamic compound in Melbourne that well, it 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.360 has everything except a supermarket. Basically, it would have two 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.400 high schools boys and girls. It'd have a primary school, 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.840 a special needs school, a retirement village, a nursing home, 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.800 a hall, a sports field, multiple sports fields, and a mosque. 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:29.320 It is the one stop shop in his vision for 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:30.600 Muslims in. 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.640 Victoria, which raises the question if you're able to do this. 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:36.679 And he's asking but he's got half the money so far. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.520 He says, he's asking for one thousand people to donate 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:42.320 three and a half grand each so he can go 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.439 and buy this land for three and a half million 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.760 dollars to build his massive Muslim compound, and of course 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.480 that would then have to go through planning permission, et cetera, 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:52.959 at which point I expect there may be a lot 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.560 of opposition voice to the Council of the State Government 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:59.120 whoever has to deal with that application, based on the 0:08:59.200 --> 0:08:59.959 value of the apple. 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:01.920 But it surely it. 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.120 Raises the question that if you are able to create 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.560 these compounds, and of course you come from a religion 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:10.800 that is not the majority religion in this country. 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:11.800 We're talking here. 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.880 About Islam, you're trying to segregate yourself from the rest 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:20.160 of society. If you belong to another religion or another 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.959 race or whatever, and you come to Australia, surely you 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.200 come here because you want to be part of the country. 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.040 Well, this is the exact opposite of that. 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.280 And time and again this is the issue we see 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.400 with social cohesion, particularly it would seem when it comes 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.280 to Islam, people trying to remove themselves from the rest 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.439 of society on that basis alone. Should this ever get 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.960 to planning permission, I think it needs to be knocked back. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.679 Well, the irony here is the Australian government has just 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:53.600 vetoed the visa of an Israeli American speaker because he 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:58.480 said that radical Islam was like a global plague. So 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.320 he's been denied entry to this country. And yet in 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.360 Victoria you've got a Muslim leader building a thirty acre 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.880 compound who said things like if the then opposition leader 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.240 visited his mosque, Peter Dutton, the man he was talking about, 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.360 would be thrown out. He's called for the eradication of Israel, 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.880 and he's described Zionists, those who believe in the state 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.760 of Israel, as blood sucking humans. 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:24.200 Here's some of what he had to say. 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.760 This is the man who proposes to build this Islamic compound. 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.400 I've always said that, I've always believed that these Zionists 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:32.080 are not normal. 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.160 They're blood sucking human beings. 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.280 They're scavengers, they're not humans. 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.319 I swear by a lot in Shawa they all go. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:45.439 Back to Ukraine and Russia and America and Britain, and 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.920 that Palestine is pure from these filthy terra Zionists. 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:50.400 Yeah. 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.880 I mean, he's got the right to build a compound, 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.280 for sure, but is this the kind of person we 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.439 want gathering like minded people together so that he can 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.000 influence them and propagate his view of the world. 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:07.160 It's extremely shocking and to use that language like we 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:11.920 hope Palestine is pure from these people, these blood sucking people. 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.240 That language of disgust is reminiscent of the kinds of 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.960 language people use when they want to dehumanize others and 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:22.760 then justify, you know, horrible things against them, and so 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.840 I think it's really concerning. It's also concerning that if 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:29.480 this compound gets built, how much oversight is there going 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.760 to be of what happens on the compound. I imagine 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.320 not very much, and that's part of why they want 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:36.600 to build it. 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.760 It raises some questions, and one is around and I'm 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.040 not sure where this man was born, et cetera, et cetera. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.600 So I'm not talking about him specifically, but we do 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.000 need to have a talk about immigration and the values 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.800 that we bring to our country. I do note that 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.800 that Sheikh said that there was nothing wrong with what 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.680 he said because he was simply exercising his freedom of speech. 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.720 He's quite right in that. But we really want to 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.160 make or people who come to Australia I'm speaking generally, 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.640 that they view the values in this country as a 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.240 privilege to be cherished, not as a right to be 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:13.319 leveraged and to be exploited. The other thing this highlights 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.280 is the danger we have, particularly on the left, of 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:21.800 continually dividing the community up into groups who have grievances 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:26.000 against one another. Because when you've got that happening, there's 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:31.120 no overriding Australian values or glue that everyone can join together. 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.320 And so what you're going to end up with is 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.160 not just an Islamic compound in Melbourne. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:36.840 You're going to end up with what do you want 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:37.240 to call them? 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:41.880 Compounds, ghettos, isolated groups of all kinds, and the country 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.400 just fractures along those lines. And too often we see 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:49.160 politicians exploiting grievances so they can play to different groups, 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.240 promising to solve their grievances in return for power, and 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.319 we wonder why the country is so fractured. What we're 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.880 seeing there is just a symptom or an example of 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.040 a broader problem we have in this country where politicians 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.800 are increasingly dividing Australians in order to win power rather 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:06.719 than trying to genuinely unite us. 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:08.800 Yes, and they are dividing themselves. 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.360 I mean, you know, if you want to build a 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.400 religious compound where you have basically everything, that the only 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.120 reason that you would need to leave that compound is 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.040 to go and do your shopping. You are essentially saying 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.880 I don't want to participate in broader Australian society. It 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.200 is a one stop shop. It is religious separatism, and 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.480 we particularly see that as a problem with certain elements 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.120 of Islam. The guy leading it, we just told you 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.360 and showed you what he says, so you'd certainly have 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.760 issues with the elements of Islam that he may will 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:43.200 be preaching within this compound. And you have a situation, 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:48.840 of course, where demography is everything. Demography dictates destiny. And 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.760 so if you say it's all good and well if 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.160 they have one of these compounds, well someone will see 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.680 that and it'll turn into compound after compound after compound 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.080 after compound, and people go, well, Australians the country where 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.000 we can go and do whatever the hell we want, 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:04.079 and no one's going. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:04.520 To stop us. 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.920 We took the other night about the United Kingdom, and 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.480 I'll preface this by saying that we are restricted by 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.200 broadcast rules about what we can and cannot say so 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:17.000 I'm being careful here, But we took the other night 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.280 about a story out of the United Kingdom where they're 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.400 saying that the population that the Islamic population, what was it, 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.240 by twenty fifty or the end of the century, will 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:29.880 be twenty five percent Muslim. So you start moving towards that, 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.520 and you're talking about a very different country you're looking at. 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.560 I know the numbers aren't to start in Australia right now, 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.720 but you start allowing this sort of thing, and you 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.360 set up a world in which, yes, Australia could be 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:43.680 twenty five percent Muslim. 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.800 And that's the thing. Multiculturalism or multi ethnic societies only 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.400 work if we have shared culture, shared values, and shared 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:55.400 experiences as well going through the common school system, integrating 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.640 with people of different backgrounds. That's all really important to 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.720 have a cohesive society. But a new study has just 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:07.640 come out which says apparently the majority of Australians, in fact, 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:14.160 seven in ten ouzsies admit to faking sick days, costing 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:19.880 the economy seven point three billion dollars a year. Some 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.600 of the reasons they might fake six days is lack 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:27.360 of sleep. Others say it's for they want to relax 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.320 and recharge, like a well being day, and others take 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:35.080 a mental health day. And women apparently are more likely 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.120 to take mental health days than men. And apparently eighty 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.640 five percent of gen Z my own generation admit to 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.120 doing it, which is a little bit depressing. 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.280 So as a woman, and as gen Z on the desk, pray, 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:49.480 you need to explain yourself. 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.600 I do not take fake sick days, but I know 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.160 this is a common thing, and people look at these 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.480 six days of their crew and they think, well, isn't 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.920 this unfair? I know my fellow colleague is not sick. 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.120 They're getting all these extra days of leave. Because I'm healthy, 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.840 I have to show up to work more than other people. 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.920 Isn't that unfair? But I do think this is a 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.440 little dodgy. It undermines trust in the workplace and it's 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.720 just not the kind of culture we want to be setting. 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:16.800 It's totally dodgy. 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.680 Talk to many Aussies and I said, ah, THESSI it's 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.120 a great tradition. But if you talk to employers who 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.680 have to pick up the tab, who have to deal 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.360 with co workers who now have to do extra work 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.720 because others are away. I don't think they believe it's 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.000 just a great Aussie tradition. 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:34.680 It's it erodes trust. 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.960 As you said, then it undermines productivity, and kind of 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:39.480 the way you're looking at me, I reckon you're going 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:40.840 to defend Sicki's. 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.560 I am as someone who doesn't take them. 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.880 I mean I've been. 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.200 Sermitting on behalf of a friend. 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.240 No, no, seriously, I've been renowned in many workplaces for 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.480 never taking sick leave, and I've probably taken the most 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.880 sick leave I've ever taken in the time i've worked here, 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.960 purely because you don't want to go on air sounding 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.560 really hoarse and like it's much more difficult to do 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:03.440 your job while sick. 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.840 But when I worked in newspapers, I mean hell or. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.560 High water, I generally went to where whether I was 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.160 hangover or sick as a dog or whatever it might be, 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.600 I always showed up for the job because I thought 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.280 that was the right thing to do. But you get 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.159 your ten days of personal leave a year if you 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.439 don't lose it. You know, if you don't use it, 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.320 eventually it'll disappear one day. 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:24.600 If you leave your job, you do a crew, but 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:25.720 you can keep it I checked. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.440 I've got more than four hundred hours of personal leave 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.160 sitting this. I think I can take about eight weeks 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.880 of sick leave, so I'll see you by the time 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:34.080 summer comes around. 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.120 But you know what, Look, seriously. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.280 If you take one day off here and there, who 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:39.640 really cares? 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:41.960 I've your wages cares? 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:43.480 Yeah, Well you can go and take it up with 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.760 the government and say, mister government man, why are you 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.400 giving them ten days a week. Well, honestly, if you're 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.000 taking a day off here and there, does it really matter. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.560 It's your leave for you to do with what you want. 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.240 If you're taking a day off saying is sick, seriously, 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:56.960 get over it. 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:58.639 But you are a bunch of narks. 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.000 It's sick leaves, it's not I want to sleep in leave. 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.840 So it's not yours to take willy nilly as you feel. 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.160 It's there in case you're sick. 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:12.120 Okay, all right, well I'm you prove I'm not sick. 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.520 I'm sick. I'm sick in the head. I don't know. 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:16.200 You can be sick with a hundred different things. 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.119 That's the other right, So then when people are genuinely sick, 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.680 if you've got too many staff known for taking sickies. 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:24.960 Then you call in the question the legitimate claims. 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.240 What you're going to start saying they're going to be 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:29.359 knocking back sickly. 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.760 But I don't think that's good. I mean they can 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.040 they can force you to go and get a medical certificate. 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.520 If you, as an employer, are not making the employer 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.200 get the medical certificate, you're. 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:40.960 The idiot, aren't you. 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.560 I mean, really, if the rules are there that they 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.639 have to prove that they get the medical certificate, you. 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:49.679 Want to be able to lie to your boss, just 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:51.280 sleep in or go to the foot, go to the 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:52.399 races or whatever. 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:54.920 But it's everyone else's fault and responsibility. 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.159 What do you mean it's everyone else's fault and response. 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.080 We have to pick up the slack if you don't 0:18:59.080 --> 0:18:59.800 pick up the slack. 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.040 This is a three person panel. They've put another person 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.960 in this seat. They have to pick up any slack 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:05.159 at all. I don't know why you ken. 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.159 Can I just remind you our very first episode of 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:07.840 the Late Debate. 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.399 I was six as a dog. You were yeah, And 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.200 I didn't take a sicky I showed it, yeah, And. 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.639 You had COVID mate, and you could have come. No, 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.440 you ate COVID and we started this program, and you 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.400 could have come in and got the rest of us sick, 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:22.800