WEBVTT - Credlin | 30 September 0:00:08.340 --> 0:00:10.700 Good evening. Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.600 tonight on Credlin. 24 hours after mortgage holders were slowed 0:00:14.620 --> 0:00:17.960 with another rate rise, Labor's still hard at it, trying 0:00:17.980 --> 0:00:20.480 to rewrite the history books when it comes to the deficit. 0:00:21.020 --> 0:00:22.730 We'll get into the numbers in a moment to show 0:00:22.770 --> 0:00:26.910 you why the government's dead wrong. Fast Australia's data centre 0:00:26.950 --> 0:00:30.230 boom about to put enormous pressure on our power grid. 0:00:30.710 --> 0:00:33.550 So where's all the energy going to come from now? 0:00:34.020 --> 0:00:37.440 Surely this is the end of net zero, even for Labor. 0:00:38.180 --> 0:00:40.540 More on that foil plot two out of the UK. 0:00:40.580 --> 0:00:45.550 We'll speak to a former Tory MP now working inside reform. 0:00:46.340 --> 0:00:48.919 We'll see how seriously these issues are being treated by 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.820 authorities here in Australia as well. And back on rates, 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.680 pressure on all sides for the government to finally admit 0:00:55.980 --> 0:00:57.950 there is a spending problem. 0:00:58.850 --> 0:01:03.690 Australians are tightening their belts. This government should be tightening 0:01:03.990 --> 0:01:04.310 its belt. 0:01:07.660 --> 0:01:09.100 It's not. We'll come back to that in a moment. 0:01:09.140 --> 0:01:12.900 But first, the recent confirmation that multiple Australian government systems 0:01:12.940 --> 0:01:19.449 were infiltrated by leading U.S. artificial intelligence company OpenAI, no surprise, 0:01:20.010 --> 0:01:22.110 because the Albanese government is asleep at the wheel on 0:01:22.170 --> 0:01:26.809 cybersecurity as it is on immigration and the economy. But 0:01:26.830 --> 0:01:29.810 don't let Labor fool you here because the Prime Minister 0:01:30.130 --> 0:01:34.670 is now using this breach to turbocharge his digital duty 0:01:34.690 --> 0:01:39.110 of care legislation. Anthony Albanese is desperately trying to conflate 0:01:39.150 --> 0:01:44.780 the issue of AI safety and his censorship bill. But 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.100 as I said here repeatedly, they are two very different things. 0:01:49.940 --> 0:01:54.590 AI safety and a properly resourced cybersecurity apparatus in Australia 0:01:55.110 --> 0:01:59.470 involving our spy and military intelligence agency is a good thing. 0:01:59.490 --> 0:02:05.530 And in broad terms, so too are global guardrails on 0:02:05.570 --> 0:02:10.300 the use of AI provided they are sensible and limited. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.580 But Labor's digital duty of care legislation is about censorship. 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:22.000 It's about restricting the information that adults can access. Albanese 0:02:22.060 --> 0:02:25.120 himself bailed a cat on this last week at the 0:02:25.139 --> 0:02:29.139 UN before the next day then trying to deny what 0:02:29.180 --> 0:02:31.780 was so clearly caught on camera. 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.060 The truth is this is having an impact on our 0:02:35.100 --> 0:02:40.930 entire society and how it functions with misinformation, disinformation, with 0:02:40.940 --> 0:02:45.200 the increased polarisation that we're seeing as well in the 0:02:45.260 --> 0:02:49.880 political system where people are moving away from the centre 0:02:49.980 --> 0:02:52.300 and more and more to the extremes, be they of 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.280 the left or the right. This isn't about government control 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.620 at all. It's not about misinformation or disinformation. I didn't 0:02:59.660 --> 0:03:00.739 link the two yesterday. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:07.510 He cannot lie straight in bed. Australia already has a 0:03:07.669 --> 0:03:12.500 multitude of laws to deal with illegal online content. We've 0:03:12.510 --> 0:03:17.220 got laws against fraud, child exploitation, sex trafficking, the sharing 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.239 of intimate images, so-called revenge porn. We've got laws against 0:03:21.419 --> 0:03:26.850 online bullying, suicide sites and the dissemination of terrorist propaganda. 0:03:27.389 --> 0:03:31.290 All of this right now already against the law as 0:03:31.370 --> 0:03:36.290 demonstrated by recent arrests. By contrast, this digital duty of 0:03:36.350 --> 0:03:40.270 care bill is about so-called harmful content that And that's 0:03:40.290 --> 0:03:43.350 a very different thing. Now, we don't have a definition 0:03:43.390 --> 0:03:46.610 of what will amount to harmful yet, but we do 0:03:46.670 --> 0:03:50.970 know it's likely to be legal content. Otherwise, it would 0:03:51.070 --> 0:03:55.480 already be captured by our existing laws. Now, worryingly, the 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.680 definition of harmful is in the hands of a politician, 0:03:58.700 --> 0:04:03.770 the Communications Minister, Annika Wells, using regulations that will only 0:04:03.830 --> 0:04:07.330 be made if and when the bill passes the Parliament. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.040 This is why I call it a Trojan horse piece 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:16.029 of legislation. And nothing highlights its political intent more than 0:04:16.070 --> 0:04:19.349 the way it grants the Albanese government power to use 0:04:19.610 --> 0:04:27.460 AI-generated anonymous bots, so-called sock puppet identities, to disseminate information. 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.640 For what purpose now, you ask? Well, Until now, the 0:04:32.660 --> 0:04:36.740 global left has claimed to be outraged by online anonymity 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.420 and fake accounts. But with the rise of the populist right, 0:04:42.100 --> 0:04:45.940 critics have attributed this rise, of course, to online platforms 0:04:46.460 --> 0:04:50.870 now outgunning traditional news and information services long dominated by 0:04:50.910 --> 0:04:55.110 the woke left. That's why Labor's plan now is to 0:04:55.190 --> 0:04:58.990 constrain free speech and under the guise of harm reduction, 0:04:59.490 --> 0:05:02.850 while at the same time flooding the online world with 0:05:02.970 --> 0:05:08.029 government-sponsored bots to doctor debate. It's all there in the 0:05:08.089 --> 0:05:13.230 exposure draft on the government's own infrastructure website. Have a 0:05:13.250 --> 0:05:16.750 look at it yourself at page 63, where it states, 0:05:17.529 --> 0:05:23.000 it authorises without limitation the use of sock puppet identities 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:28.000 by the eSafety Commissioner to generate material using an online service, 0:05:28.380 --> 0:05:31.820 including by means of artificial intelligence, to the extent that 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:37.080 the production, dissemination or possession of that material is not 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.109 an offence against the law of the Commonwealth, a state 0:05:40.210 --> 0:05:43.990 or territory. Now, just two years ago, the Albanese government 0:05:44.010 --> 0:05:46.910 tried to ban the use of these anonymous bots via 0:05:46.930 --> 0:05:54.130 its flawed misinformation legislation that was ultimately withdrawn after widespread criticism. Well, 0:05:54.150 --> 0:05:57.530 now we've got the same government wanting the legal right 0:05:57.830 --> 0:06:00.979 to create these fake accounts. Two years ago, they wanted 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.780 to ban fake accounts. Now they've got laws in the 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:08.700 parliament to enable them to use fake accounts to distribute 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:14.089 what essentially will be Albanese government propaganda online. Now, the 0:06:14.210 --> 0:06:17.250 only conclusion that can be drawn here is that this 0:06:17.290 --> 0:06:20.070 will be used by the Prime Minister to silence his 0:06:20.170 --> 0:06:24.589 critics and halt the rise of a populist movement like 0:06:24.770 --> 0:06:30.210 One Nation. If this legislation gets up, template versions are 0:06:30.250 --> 0:06:32.900 likely to be used around the world in the UK, 0:06:33.339 --> 0:06:38.900 the US, Europe, everywhere where the right is gaining ground 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.560 in the face of mass migration and voter backlash against 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:48.520 rapid cultural changes in these countries. With Labor at a 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.350 near record low primary vote of 27 points in the 0:06:51.390 --> 0:06:54.410 latest news poll, and the Prime Minister racking up a 0:06:54.589 --> 0:06:59.800 massive dissatisfaction rating of 62% of voters, whatever it takes 0:06:59.860 --> 0:07:03.020 in the cyber world, well, that's gaining a whole new 0:07:03.180 --> 0:07:07.820 Orwellian meaning. As the Communications Minister confirmed in a recent 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:12.020 News 24 interview, the reach of these proposed online censorship 0:07:12.060 --> 0:07:17.080 laws will include news and general interest websites, search engines, 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.770 streaming services, hosting services and apps. 0:07:22.850 --> 0:07:25.430 The duty of care legislation is so broad it could 0:07:25.470 --> 0:07:26.990 capture more than social media, though. 0:07:27.010 --> 0:07:31.430 It could capture news websites, no? Well, sorry, yes, it does. 0:07:31.730 --> 0:07:36.610 The digital duty of care, my apologies, does go to 0:07:36.750 --> 0:07:39.010 all online services. So that's a problem. 0:07:39.050 --> 0:07:40.090 Isn't it? 0:07:40.250 --> 0:07:41.690 That's a tricky one. Why is that a problem? 0:07:41.890 --> 0:07:44.690 Well, because it's news sites and that would amount to censorship, 0:07:44.730 --> 0:07:47.970 wouldn't it not? Because I'm wondering who then defines harm, 0:07:48.070 --> 0:07:50.450 because if it's the e-safety commissioner. 0:07:51.670 --> 0:07:55.920 And then you deciding. It's not about content. It's about 0:07:56.000 --> 0:08:02.240 identifying risks. Goodness me. She doesn't even know her own legislation. 0:08:02.780 --> 0:08:06.440 This is the left's holy grail. Now, imagine trying to 0:08:06.540 --> 0:08:10.200 fight against the voice referendum under this regime. I can 0:08:10.260 --> 0:08:13.440 guarantee you my work in exposing the far-reaching agenda of 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.020 the Uluru Statement, all 26 pages of it, pushing for 0:08:17.060 --> 0:08:19.600 a treaty and reparations, well, that would never have got 0:08:19.620 --> 0:08:25.160 off the ground, despite the evidence obtained via FOI. Imagine 0:08:25.220 --> 0:08:28.420 discussing the rise of radical Islam, for example, under the 0:08:28.460 --> 0:08:31.180 scope of these new laws. or being attacked by an 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:36.500 army of government generated bots to shut down criticism. Labor's 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.610 digital duty of care legislation has got almost nothing to 0:08:39.650 --> 0:08:44.530 do with protecting children or algorithm choice for adults. It's 0:08:44.610 --> 0:08:49.860 about silencing critics and keeping Labor in power amidst growing 0:08:50.059 --> 0:08:56.160 voter dissent. Labor's bleeding support over its inability, indeed unwillingness, 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:00.030 to rein in record high immigration. It has to keep 0:09:00.070 --> 0:09:03.550 the numbers high despite the backlash, or it will expose 0:09:03.590 --> 0:09:07.410 the budget Ponzi scheme at a time when spiking inflation 0:09:07.450 --> 0:09:11.770 and rising interest rates are taking ordinary income earners to 0:09:11.790 --> 0:09:16.780 the brink. Add in that catastrophic budget, 40-year high rates 0:09:16.860 --> 0:09:20.099 of government spending, and these are dark times for the 0:09:20.140 --> 0:09:24.800 Australian economy and for households. This is why a new 0:09:25.020 --> 0:09:28.579 digital big brother in place before the next election is 0:09:29.190 --> 0:09:41.390 is now Albanese's highest priority. Talking about misinformation, have a 0:09:41.460 --> 0:09:42.300 look at this. 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:50.260 We've had $ 178 billion of savings. Every single economic statement 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.900 that we have handed down has had savings. And indeed, 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:58.380 we have savings that are before the parliament right now. 0:10:00.340 --> 0:10:05.540 What a goose. This too from Labor's Minister for Financial Services, 0:10:05.860 --> 0:10:06.939 Daniel Molino. 0:10:06.940 --> 0:10:12.920 64 billion in saves and reprioritisations is an incredibly significant 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.450 achievement in the last budget. OK, but my question is 0:10:15.490 --> 0:10:18.750 about government spending. Do you concede that government spending is 0:10:18.809 --> 0:10:21.510 a contributor to high inflation? As a result of decisions 0:10:21.550 --> 0:10:23.809 in the last budget, it will be declining over the 0:10:23.850 --> 0:10:24.390 forward estimate. 0:10:24.410 --> 0:10:26.880 So it is a factor. You're conceding it is a factor, finally. 0:10:27.250 --> 0:10:28.929 No, no, and that's why we are leaning in in 0:10:28.970 --> 0:10:30.970 this area and we are achieving a huge amount. 0:10:31.010 --> 0:10:32.319 But you're still not answering the question. 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:34.920 So why don't you, the Prime Minister and the Treasurer 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:36.980 and every other member of the Labor Party can see 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.179 that spending is contributing to inflation? No, no, but Pete, 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.560 what I'm saying is we are acknowledging the fact that 0:10:42.580 --> 0:10:44.500 we have to manage the budget responsibly. 0:10:47.059 --> 0:10:51.579 He says leaning in to their $ 64 billion of savings. 0:10:52.179 --> 0:10:52.319 Well. 0:10:52.850 --> 0:10:55.850 Have a look at the final budget results confirmed by 0:10:55.890 --> 0:11:01.430 the Treasurer on Monday. We've got a deficit of $ 22 billion. 0:11:01.950 --> 0:11:06.670 So we could hardly have made $ 64 billion in true savings, Minister, 0:11:07.090 --> 0:11:11.010 if we're still $ 22 billion in the rent. This is 0:11:11.090 --> 0:11:15.030 yet another example of cooking the book's labour style. Listen 0:11:15.130 --> 0:11:16.850 carefully again to Molino. 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:22.870 The $ 64 billion in saves and reprioritisations is an incredibly 0:11:22.950 --> 0:11:25.070 significant achievement in the last budget. 0:11:26.470 --> 0:11:32.410 There you go. There you go. Saves and reprioritisations. Now, 0:11:32.450 --> 0:11:36.250 that's Labor speak for cutting costs. I'll give it to him. 0:11:36.250 --> 0:11:39.600 $ 64 billion, he says. and then spending all of that 0:11:39.940 --> 0:11:43.920 and more. It's taking money out of one column, calling 0:11:43.970 --> 0:11:48.230 it a saving, and then spending it in another column. Now, 0:11:48.410 --> 0:11:51.020 who does that in the real world? You show me 0:11:51.059 --> 0:11:53.540 a small business that can get away with this, or 0:11:53.580 --> 0:11:55.920 a big one, I tell you the auditors would have 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.920 a field day, let alone the billions and billions booked 0:12:00.140 --> 0:12:04.320 off-budget and yet another accounting trick that makes even girl 0:12:04.380 --> 0:12:07.760 math look credible. Next thing you know, Jim Chalmers will 0:12:07.780 --> 0:12:10.100 get some sort of global award as Treasurer of the 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.800 Year for this spin, just like his old boss Wayne 0:12:12.860 --> 0:12:17.780 Swan did. Honestly, these numbers are a joke, only the 0:12:17.820 --> 0:12:25.210 joke's on us, the taxpayer. We are going to rip 0:12:25.350 --> 0:12:28.090 into those numbers because they are as dodgy as hell 0:12:28.730 --> 0:12:30.350 in a moment. But let's get to Cameron now for 0:12:30.370 --> 0:12:32.910 the headlines with our political reporter, Cam Redden. 0:12:33.650 --> 0:12:34.070 Good evening. 0:12:34.370 --> 0:12:37.449 The Greens have elected New South Wales Senator David Shoebridge 0:12:37.610 --> 0:12:40.770 as their new leader. The call I'm not hearing is 0:12:40.820 --> 0:12:42.500 what do we want? Gradual change. 0:12:42.700 --> 0:12:43.370 When do we want it? 0:12:43.540 --> 0:12:44.240 In due course. 0:12:44.660 --> 0:12:47.680 He replaces Larissa Waters, who will take leave to battle 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:48.880 chronic kidney disease. 0:12:49.380 --> 0:12:51.219 I hope to be OK, but I need to look 0:12:51.300 --> 0:12:52.940 after myself to do that. 0:12:53.330 --> 0:12:55.390 In a party room of 11, the New South Wales 0:12:55.429 --> 0:12:58.910 Senator won seven votes to Maureen Faruqi's four. But it's 0:12:58.990 --> 0:13:02.620 far from happy families. After the vote, Senator Faruqi released 0:13:02.750 --> 0:13:06.560 a blistering statement, void of congratulations for the new duo, 0:13:06.940 --> 0:13:10.840 saying she's disappointed her party room chose another direction and 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.260 says many others will feel the same. 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.180 At least Maureen Faruqi didn't get the gig. 0:13:15.630 --> 0:13:17.929 A day after the Reserve Bank lifted rates to their 0:13:17.970 --> 0:13:22.689 highest point in 15 years, inflation has crept higher to 4%. 0:13:22.690 --> 0:13:25.510 It is clear and self-evident that the war in the 0:13:25.530 --> 0:13:28.689 Middle East is putting substantial upward pressure on inflation. 0:13:28.770 --> 0:13:33.089 This government needs to contain its spending, its out-of-control spending, 0:13:33.550 --> 0:13:35.670 and it needs to make it easier to build and 0:13:35.750 --> 0:13:36.970 make things in this country. 0:13:37.610 --> 0:13:38.630 Cameron Redden, News 24, Canberra. 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:43.880 All right, let's bring in my, I was going to 0:13:43.900 --> 0:13:46.819 say Monday night panel, it's Wednesday, News 24 Senior Reporter 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:51.059 Carolyn Marcus, Senior Fellow at the Menzies Research Centre, Nick Cater. 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.680 It's been a long week already, a lot of financial 0:13:53.700 --> 0:13:56.540 data out this week, of course, Nick. We saw today, 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.140 of course, those inflation data numbers coming out, headline inflation 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:05.720 at 4% ahead of forecast, more than it was last 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:07.840 period and, of course, well above the target band for 0:14:07.860 --> 0:14:08.780 the RBA of 2% to 3%. 0:14:08.780 --> 0:14:08.839 So. 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.610 More rate hikes are on the way. Like the Treasury yesterday, 0:14:14.650 --> 0:14:17.470 the Prime Minister has been shifting the blame again to 0:14:17.510 --> 0:14:20.230 the Middle East and the previous government. 0:14:21.510 --> 0:14:25.300 The Treasury has been very consistent, speaking about the inflationary 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.600 pressures which are there in the economy. They were there 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.160 when we were elected. They've continued to be there. We've 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.880 continued to take action on it. But as the Reserve 0:14:35.900 --> 0:14:42.260 Bank statement made very clear yesterday, very clear, that the 0:14:42.420 --> 0:14:45.780 war in the Middle East has had an impact. 0:14:48.100 --> 0:14:50.780 Nick, last night I played a clip from the 2022 0:14:50.780 --> 0:14:55.280 election and in that clip the Prime Minister confirmed that 0:14:55.320 --> 0:15:01.760 the cash rate was 0.1%. He's been the boss ever 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.260 since then. It's now 4.6, but none of this is 0:15:06.350 --> 0:15:06.930 his fault. 0:15:09.790 --> 0:15:12.130 Yeah, he's been Prime Minister for four years, more than 0:15:12.190 --> 0:15:15.390 four years, Peter, and he's still blaming the previous coalition 0:15:15.450 --> 0:15:18.890 government for his own economic problems. But this thing about 0:15:18.930 --> 0:15:21.090 the Middle East war, the Iran war, look, it just 0:15:21.130 --> 0:15:21.700 won't wash. 0:15:21.750 --> 0:15:22.270 Those figures. 0:15:22.900 --> 0:15:25.900 today show that, you know, headline rate at 4%. Well, 0:15:26.340 --> 0:15:32.760 the headline rate will include any short-term increase in fuel prices. 0:15:32.850 --> 0:15:36.150 It probably includes some electricity prices as well, but that's 0:15:36.230 --> 0:15:41.330 a 4%. It's the underlying 3.6%, which the Reserve Bank 0:15:41.370 --> 0:15:44.050 looks at, and it's that which causes the Reserve Bank 0:15:44.410 --> 0:15:47.260 to lose sleep at night and makes the Reserve Bank, 0:15:47.300 --> 0:15:51.630 forces the Reserve Bank to lift interest rates. So, You know, 0:15:51.670 --> 0:15:55.780 we're not talking about the short-term increase in fuel prices. 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.920 We are talking about the underlying inflation rate, which they 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.300 have not been able to shift. 0:16:02.220 --> 0:16:03.780 And, of course, Caroline, you know, you look at the 0:16:03.820 --> 0:16:07.190 league table around the world where, depending which table you're 0:16:07.210 --> 0:16:10.970 looking at, either one or two... in advanced economies in 0:16:11.050 --> 0:16:15.050 terms of the highest interest rate in the world. Now, 0:16:15.090 --> 0:16:19.290 the Iran war has global fallout, obviously. So why is 0:16:19.330 --> 0:16:23.150 it only impacting Australia's cash rate and not all the 0:16:23.210 --> 0:16:27.240 other economies? that rely on fuel out of that region. 0:16:27.260 --> 0:16:30.640 I think it might only be Iceland that is ahead 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:31.300 of us, Peter. 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:32.540 I mean, it's pretty shocking. 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:36.250 And the spin that this government is trying to put 0:16:36.330 --> 0:16:40.330 on this is just, it just makes you nauseous. The 0:16:40.610 --> 0:16:43.890 RBA governor, Michelle Bullock, could not have been clearer. when 0:16:43.930 --> 0:16:49.330 she said domestic pressures were a big contributor to what 0:16:49.370 --> 0:16:52.110 is happening in the country, the decision to raise interest 0:16:52.190 --> 0:16:56.030 rates to a 15-year high. And now with these inflation 0:16:56.050 --> 0:16:58.540 figures as well, I mean, the government needs to stop 0:16:58.940 --> 0:17:01.680 blaming the war. It's kind of like that Fawlty Towers 0:17:01.740 --> 0:17:05.540 episode where Basil Fawlty keeps saying, don't mention the war, 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.179 except with this government, it's don't stop mentioning the war. 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.740 They need to take some personal responsibility. 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.850 Spot on. And that's a point well made today by 0:17:15.869 --> 0:17:19.830 the former RBA Governor Phil Lowe. He sat down for 0:17:19.850 --> 0:17:22.590 an interview with Chief Economist at the IPA, Adam Crichton. 0:17:22.609 --> 0:17:23.129 Have a listen. 0:17:24.170 --> 0:17:28.770 Now we find ourselves running sizable budget deficits at a 0:17:28.830 --> 0:17:31.590 time where we're at full employment and commodity prices are 0:17:31.609 --> 0:17:36.280 very high. We should be running sizable surpluses. So we 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.740 don't have a framework and we're not solving the intertemporal problem. 0:17:40.500 --> 0:17:43.649 So what we're doing now is spending today and leaving 0:17:43.710 --> 0:17:44.850 the debt for our kids. 0:17:47.250 --> 0:17:48.110 Pretty damning, Nick. 0:17:51.340 --> 0:17:54.720 When is the right time for this government to start 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:55.619 paying down debt? 0:17:55.780 --> 0:17:56.040 When? 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.900 I mean, the Intergenerational Report projected that debt will continue 0:17:59.960 --> 0:18:03.350 until the 2060s. And Phil Lowe made that important point, 0:18:03.390 --> 0:18:05.890 I think, that we're passing this on to our children. 0:18:06.710 --> 0:18:10.250 Out of that deficit this year, what, $ 22 billion it's 0:18:10.310 --> 0:18:13.860 forecast at, probably $ 15 billion, $ 14, $ 15 billion of that 0:18:14.340 --> 0:18:17.000 is just on paying the day-to-day bills. 0:18:16.700 --> 0:18:17.920 That the government has to pay. 0:18:17.940 --> 0:18:22.639 Now, anybody who just kept putting their food bill on 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.660 a credit card would soon be in trouble. But that's 0:18:25.700 --> 0:18:28.830 exactly what the government's doing. I think it's unconscionable that 0:18:28.869 --> 0:18:31.430 it's passing all that debt on to the next generation, 0:18:32.250 --> 0:18:34.950 while at the same time, of course, productivity is flat. 0:18:34.970 --> 0:18:38.460 So there's no chance whatsoever on the current trajectory that 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.580 the next generation is going to be earning more, is 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.590 going to have a higher standard of living than this one. 0:18:44.450 --> 0:18:47.240 Let's go to the race for the Greens leadership, of course. 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.740 We had New South Wales Senator David Shoebridge emerging as 0:18:50.820 --> 0:18:56.960 victor today after Larissa Waters stepped down. What was interesting here, Caroline, well, 0:18:56.980 --> 0:18:59.320 I think we dodged a bullet not getting Maureen Faruqi, 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.200 but she would have been actually a gift for Labor 0:19:02.619 --> 0:19:05.240 because a lot of people on that left that are 0:19:05.300 --> 0:19:08.860 shifting away from Albanese would have found, I think, Faruqi 0:19:08.980 --> 0:19:13.300 a bridge too far to And that fighting salvo today, 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.980 I mean, Shoebridge really took it up to Labor. I 0:19:16.020 --> 0:19:19.960 think Albanese and the left faction will not be happy, 0:19:20.220 --> 0:19:24.050 because he's a good communicator, that he has emerged as 0:19:24.109 --> 0:19:24.730 leader today. 0:19:25.580 --> 0:19:29.240 He's probably the best chance that the Greens have in 0:19:29.380 --> 0:19:32.820 trying to attract people a bit more to the centre. 0:19:32.859 --> 0:19:35.400 I mean, Labor supporters these days, a lot of them are. 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.330 Not, you can't call them centrists. 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:42.450 They are on the left, far left, but he's probably 0:19:42.550 --> 0:19:46.010 more amenable to a lot of people. Having said that, 0:19:46.150 --> 0:19:48.750 I don't think that we've completely dodged a bullet here. 0:19:48.790 --> 0:19:52.800 I think he might come across as more moderate. But 0:19:52.940 --> 0:19:56.139 I revealed back in June he'd appeared on a podcast 0:19:56.940 --> 0:20:02.240 which left the peak Jewish group accusing David Shoebridge of anti-Semitism. 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:06.090 It was alongside a filmmaker who he appeared to agree 0:20:06.150 --> 0:20:09.690 with when she said the Australian government were hijacked by 0:20:09.750 --> 0:20:13.190 Jewish lobby groups. Now, that says to me a lot 0:20:13.230 --> 0:20:15.630 of the problems within the Greens that have to do 0:20:15.690 --> 0:20:21.390 with extremism and anti-Semitism and... an apparent support for terrorism 0:20:22.060 --> 0:20:27.300 at times, is not entirely void with just having David 0:20:27.340 --> 0:20:31.060 Shoebridge as a leader. He just maybe appears slightly more moderate. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.900 I'm not convinced that he is a whole lot more... 0:20:33.940 --> 0:20:36.500 I'm still glad it's not Maureen Faruqi, I have to say. 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.790 But I also question, you know, this is an ultra-progressive 0:20:39.830 --> 0:20:43.930 party that blames everyone for being misogynist and racist and Islamophobic, 0:20:44.450 --> 0:20:49.869 and yet they still voted... for a pale, male, stale 0:20:50.430 --> 0:20:53.900 leader above the brown Muslim woman. I mean, those would 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.620 be their terms. I wouldn't use them. I just find 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:57.900 that a bit ironic, don't you? 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.940 Good on you. I will say Shibbridge denied those claims, 0:21:03.050 --> 0:21:05.629 but he is still agreeing. You're right to remind me 0:21:05.650 --> 0:21:08.210 that he's still agreeing. I can't get soft here just 0:21:08.230 --> 0:21:11.610 because we didn't end up with Faruqi. Hey, we might 0:21:11.630 --> 0:21:13.960 have had a change of heart at the Melbourne City Council, Nick. I... 0:21:14.690 --> 0:21:16.520 I'm not going to give them credit, though, until it 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.060 actually happens. But there was a resolution at the council 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.060 meeting the other night to say Australia Day is our 0:21:23.100 --> 0:21:26.220 national day. We can't change it. It's beyond the remit 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.280 of local council. So we need to basically stick to 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.760 our knitting and recognise that a lot of Australians want 0:21:32.780 --> 0:21:37.130 this day commemorated. There's even talk that the parade might 0:21:37.190 --> 0:21:41.720 come back. Yeah, look, I think this is a. 0:21:42.340 --> 0:21:47.520 A very rare moment of maturity and self-awareness for Melbourne 0:21:47.700 --> 0:21:51.180 City Council. Nick Rees, of course, familiar to Sky News. 0:21:51.300 --> 0:21:53.060 Early days yet, mate, early days. 0:21:53.140 --> 0:21:58.390 He's the mayor there. Yeah, but yeah, he's actually said, well, look, 0:21:58.850 --> 0:22:02.290 you know, this is not part of our brief. Nick Rees, 0:22:02.350 --> 0:22:05.070 the mayor and many of the councillors support changing the day, 0:22:05.109 --> 0:22:07.930 but they're saying this isn't our business. So for the meantime... 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:10.170 We'll carry on with Australia Day because we know a 0:22:10.190 --> 0:22:13.450 lot of Australians or a vast majority of Australians want 0:22:13.490 --> 0:22:16.390 to celebrate it. I see there's still a quarrel over 0:22:16.450 --> 0:22:18.970 who's going to pay for the Australia Day parade if 0:22:19.010 --> 0:22:21.270 they bring it back. It hasn't been in place, I gather, 0:22:21.310 --> 0:22:25.100 since COVID. I think a good thing for Jess Collins 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:27.960 and the Liberal opposition would be to come out and say, 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.580 we will fund it, full stop. So there's no quarrel 0:22:31.619 --> 0:22:35.720 about it. Melbourne needs something like that to celebrate Australia Day. 0:22:37.690 --> 0:22:41.060 I think maybe he's trying to manoeuvre ahead of a 0:22:41.100 --> 0:22:43.980 Wilson win in November. I think this is as much 0:22:44.060 --> 0:22:47.140 about the Melbourne City Council reading the writing on the wall. 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:48.879 Could we be that lucky that there is a change 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.419 of government? But as I said, we'll see what happens 0:22:51.460 --> 0:22:54.500 on the 26th of January. I'll be here on the desk. 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:58.740 If he makes good on this promise, I'll give him kudos. Otherwise, 0:22:58.830 --> 0:23:01.969 he'll cop brickbats. Thank you to you both. Let's go 0:23:02.010 --> 0:23:04.350 now back to the RBA decision to lift interest rates 0:23:04.390 --> 0:23:08.310 yesterday to the highest levels in 15 years. Labor yesterday 0:23:08.550 --> 0:23:12.840 and today again trying to spin it furiously that none 0:23:12.859 --> 0:23:16.360 of this is the government's fault. The Treasurer, well, he's 0:23:16.380 --> 0:23:19.560 been pointing to international pressures and banging on about what 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.810 he inherited from the former government, but... Have a look 0:23:22.850 --> 0:23:26.710 at what Phil Coury uncovered today in the Financial Review, 0:23:26.810 --> 0:23:29.669 pointing out there's some pretty big claims here from the 0:23:29.770 --> 0:23:33.500 Treasurer that deserve a closer look, including whether the government's 0:23:33.540 --> 0:23:39.940 rewriting economic history. Professor Richard Holden is Chief Societal Economist 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:43.469 at UNSW and And he's been particularly critical of some 0:23:43.510 --> 0:23:45.430 of the arguments that have been put forward by the government. 0:23:45.470 --> 0:23:48.830 He joins me now. Professor, welcome to the program. So 0:23:49.310 --> 0:23:53.119 I read Currie this morning and I almost spluttered on 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:56.500 my coffee because he pulls apart these numbers. I mean, 0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:00.240 Labor constantly bang on that they inherited an $ 80 billion 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:04.490 deficit from the coalition. But that is a lie. They 0:24:04.530 --> 0:24:07.619 just had an election forecast in PFO, we call it, 0:24:07.650 --> 0:24:10.889 as you well know. It was a forecast of that amount, 0:24:10.890 --> 0:24:15.570 79 billion, not an actual amount. The actual deficit they 0:24:15.630 --> 0:24:20.300 inherited was much lower. It was 32 billion. Now, come on, 0:24:20.660 --> 0:24:22.160 they shouldn't be able to get away with this. 0:24:23.060 --> 0:24:25.840 Well, that's exactly right. I really don't know why we're 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:30.980 talking about a half decade or so old forecast on 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:33.120 the way out of a pandemic. I don't see what 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.570