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Speaker 1: Good Day Champs. It's Craig Anthony and Robert Capuccio. It's

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Speaker 1: the You Project. It's the self help antidote. We're calling this.

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Speaker 1: This is called a koshare. That's what the kids call it, Bobby.

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Speaker 2: Is that what the kids are calling me get these days?

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Speaker 2: That is? That?

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Speaker 1: Is?

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Speaker 2: Is that? Like cohabitation is different. I'm getting off track already.

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Speaker 1: It's a form of cohabitation. It's my it's my podcast

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Speaker 1: and your podcast cohabitating in the one well in two spaces.

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Speaker 1: It's a convergence. And maybe it's also laziness because it

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Speaker 1: means that we can do one recording and get two podcasts,

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Speaker 1: which I think is efficient.

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Speaker 2: No, it's efficiency. It's definitely not laziness. Why who said that?

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Speaker 2: Does someone called us? So are you?

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Speaker 1: What is what is news? What is news with you?

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Speaker 1: What is going on?

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Speaker 2: Just doing a lot of rating, a lot of content creation, Greg,

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Speaker 2: just a lot of deadlines I'm working towards because you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't want people to be upset with me like that. Kapuchia,

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Speaker 2: you dropped the boy.

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Speaker 1: You said to me before we went live that you

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Speaker 1: were you were joking, but you said I'm a paople plasers,

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Speaker 1: so I don't like doing whatever it was. Is that true?

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Speaker 1: Do you do you actually think you're a paple plaser

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Speaker 1: or were you just fucking around?

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Speaker 2: Now? I struggle with that. I like to think, like,

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Speaker 2: here's here's what I'm going to say, just because you

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Speaker 2: know people are listening to this, so it makes me

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Speaker 2: look good. I like to say that I'm not defined

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Speaker 2: by other people's opinions, but I am deeply affected by it,

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Speaker 2: which I think, to a certain degree is healthy. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you don't care about what anybody thinks you're you're

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Speaker 2: either delusional or you may be a sociopath, which statistically

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Speaker 2: is unlikely. You just might not be one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: honest with yourself, but it really does affect me. I

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Speaker 2: had a meeting with my boss earlier this morning for coffee,

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Speaker 2: which she quickly regretted because I had a large coffee

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Speaker 2: and it was a got a bit intense. But we

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Speaker 2: were talking about like last year, I was struggling with

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Speaker 2: just a couple of relationships where I was running around

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Speaker 2: and trying to I think, tell myself, I'm here to

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Speaker 2: serve these people, and I was trying not to disappoint

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Speaker 2: them and just make them happy and the goalpost kept

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Speaker 2: moving like Okay, that's fine, but you didn't do that.

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Speaker 2: And she's like, and you just like chase them around

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Speaker 2: and constantly tried to recalibrate, and it's like you lost

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Speaker 2: yourself a little bit and it took a toll on

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Speaker 2: you and it wasn't positive for them or for you

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Speaker 2: or you know. She's like, the organization was fine. You know,

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Speaker 2: nothing happened, nobody went to HR, nobody quit. But she

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Speaker 2: was like, probably wasn't the best approach. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I wonder why I do that.

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Speaker 1: I think there's two disparate things here regarding like one is,

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Speaker 1: you know, as per my research, having an insight and

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Speaker 1: understanding into how people perceive and process and experience you metaperception.

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Speaker 1: That's one that's just like a kind of awareness. And

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Speaker 1: then the other is anxiety fear driven worrying about whether

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Speaker 1: or not someone likes me or what they think of me,

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Speaker 1: you know. Rather than one's like fear driven, one's curiosity driven.

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Speaker 1: I think, and that when I tell people about my

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Speaker 1: research that some especially often do to like, I don't

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Speaker 1: give a fuck what people think of me. I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to be me and if they don't, I'm like, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: good luck, good luck being a leader, good luck having

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Speaker 1: a team, and good luck being you know, part of

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Speaker 1: something bigger than just you. You know. So I think

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Speaker 1: the distinction is for people to understand we're not coming

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Speaker 1: from a place of fear and insecurity and self doubt

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Speaker 1: and anxiety as in no, do they like me, please

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Speaker 1: like me, but rather just that awareness of like, I'm

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Speaker 1: curious that, like, what is it like for our audience

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Speaker 1: listening to you and to me? What is that experience like?

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Speaker 2: Because you and Eyefel I would imagine it.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine, right. But you know, the truth is,

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Speaker 1: so you're a professional teacher, coach, mentor speaker. Your job

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Speaker 1: is to literally stand and or sit whatever the case

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Speaker 1: or the situation, but and talk to lots of people. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you have no idea what that is like for them,

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Speaker 1: you're at very best. You're just guessing and flying by

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Speaker 1: the city of pants, right.

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Speaker 2: You know, people talk a lot about emotional intelligence and

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Speaker 2: how critical it is to succeeding in collaborative endeavors, which

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Speaker 2: just about everything, and you could argue that, you could

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Speaker 2: argue that where you are within the leadership hierarchy depends

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Speaker 2: on you know, how much of an advantage or a

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Speaker 2: detriment emotional intelligence is. That's a totally different conversation. But

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Speaker 2: it's like when you ask yourself, what does it mean

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Speaker 2: to be emotionally intelligent? It's the ability to be self

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Speaker 2: aware and other aware. I'm aware of my own emotiontional

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Speaker 2: state and perspective, and I am also aware of the

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Speaker 2: experiential emotional state of others, and I could regulate my thoughts, emotions,

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Speaker 2: and behaviors based on that assessment or based on the

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Speaker 2: ability to calibrate all of those different things. At wants

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Speaker 2: to kint it's almost the set of empathy. I think

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Speaker 2: you're right. There is the influence that other people's opinion

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Speaker 2: have of you. Is it so that you can modify

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Speaker 2: and adjust how it is you're engaging in the world,

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Speaker 2: or is it something where you are dependent on external validation,

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Speaker 2: which everybody is to a degree. But if that's what's

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Speaker 2: guiding you, I think it's very different than Okay, if

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Speaker 2: I am a leader, if I am a writer, if

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Speaker 2: IM a speaker, what quintessentially is my purpose? Why do

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Speaker 2: I do that? And if it is to make a

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Speaker 2: contribution if it is at some level to serve, you

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Speaker 2: have to be sensitive and and intentionally focused on how

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Speaker 2: you're impacting people. Can I can I bring something up

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Speaker 2: from a conversation, a very personal conversation we had over

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Speaker 2: a year ago. Yeah, of course go where you had said,

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Speaker 2: you know, you need to understand the experience of you

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Speaker 2: and that that I mean that that hit me like

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Speaker 2: I did like the ice water challenge a few years

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Speaker 2: earlier than that. That statement hit me harder than a

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Speaker 2: bucket of ice water. And because I know it, I

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Speaker 2: know it's true, like I know in relation to me,

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Speaker 2: it's true. And it's like, oh did that did that

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Speaker 2: feel good?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: It didn't. But like over time, when I sat with that,

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Speaker 2: I was I was deeply grateful for it because I

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Speaker 2: think we need that from one another when it comes

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Speaker 2: from a police of care, and we need to be

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Speaker 2: open to that. Otherwise we're not emotionally intelligent. We can't

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Speaker 2: we can't collaborate with people. If we can't do that,

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Speaker 2: good luck doing anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think, like you know, since I first met you,

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Speaker 1: which is over two decades ago, and we've done stuff

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Speaker 1: fond enough over the years. It's funny because you know,

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Speaker 1: especially for the guy who has no siblings, Like I've

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Speaker 1: always felt a little bit, not in a weird way,

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Speaker 1: but like I've always I always thought you were and

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not just saying this everyone to make

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Speaker 1: him feel good. He knows this, Like I've always felt

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Speaker 1: like you were and you are very intelligent and very

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Speaker 1: gifted and very capable. And so I'm always coming from

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Speaker 1: a good place. And I've always been or periodically been

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Speaker 1: perplexed at, ah, how little recognition you've got from some

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Speaker 1: people now, and I think you should it's just my

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Speaker 1: opinion got more recognition, and you know a few other

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Speaker 1: things that we won't bang on about. But you know,

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Speaker 1: when I say things like that to you, even though

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Speaker 1: it's not what people want to hear, necessarily, it's coming

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Speaker 1: from a good place. And that is because you know,

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Speaker 1: I want you know, if you don't understand or I

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Speaker 1: don't understand what it is like being around you or

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Speaker 1: around me, then how can we build optimal connection and

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Speaker 1: rapport with others? And you know, like I've spent my

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Speaker 1: life being not very good at things and then working

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Speaker 1: to be better. Like there's been other than maybe I

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Speaker 1: was going to say, maybe like in naturally, I'm a

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Speaker 1: recently good communicator, but even that, there are so many

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Speaker 1: parts of communication that I wasn't good at, and still

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Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, brilliant at. But I think that

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Speaker 1: is one of the challenges of friendship too, is do

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Speaker 1: I want them to tell me what I want to hear,

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Speaker 1: or do I want them to truly give me feedback

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Speaker 1: that might not be the most comfortable, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I remember that, and I remember I was conflicted because

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Speaker 1: I felt what did I feel? And I even sent

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Speaker 1: you a message the other day. We won't say the

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Speaker 1: totality of that message, right, I sent you a message

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Speaker 1: and basically went, I think I fucked a few things up,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, and I love you and that's it.

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Speaker 1: And I think that for me, look at us, it's

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Speaker 1: like fucking doctor Phil here. But I just think that

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Speaker 1: it is important in friendship to go you know, I

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Speaker 1: think I did well with that, or I think I

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Speaker 1: fucked that up, and not like, oh I fucked that

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Speaker 1: up because you did this and then you did that. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I just I got that thing wrong, absolutely one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent me. And I think that being able to work

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Speaker 1: through that stuff while still you know, like My litmus

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Speaker 1: test for friendship is two things. One is is my

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Speaker 1: life better with this person in it? That's number one

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Speaker 1: of my litmus friendship test. And the answer for that

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Speaker 1: with you to me is yes. And the next one

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Speaker 1: is do you say nice things behind that person's back

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Speaker 1: and do they do the same? I'm like, well, I

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Speaker 1: would think, I don't know about you, I hope so,

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Speaker 1: but definitely me, And then I think, Okay, then this

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Speaker 1: is really worth working on. And we've gotten very deep,

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Speaker 1: very quick. But I think that's one of the challenges

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Speaker 1: of otherwise we're just gonna We're going to live in

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Speaker 1: this fucking echo chamber of kind of self serving bullshit

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Speaker 1: to an extent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think relationships one. I think when it comes

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Speaker 2: to mental health and ultimately happiness, We've discussed this before.

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Speaker 2: I think the pursuit of how happiness is almost a

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Speaker 2: guarantee that it will evade us for the rest of

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Speaker 2: our lives. It's it's a horrible endeavor. I think it's

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Speaker 2: an unavoidable consequence of engaging in things that are meaningful.

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Speaker 2: I think meaning is the key, not happiness, but because

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Speaker 2: of the depth of value that relationships have, I think

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Speaker 2: it's the seat of mental health or a critical component

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Speaker 2: mental health and happiness as well. And you said something

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Speaker 2: about rapport and report is critical to this. It's it's

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Speaker 2: a to me, rapport is a relationship of positive responsiveness

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Speaker 2: where you could be in response to one another and

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Speaker 2: show up for that even when, or probably especially when

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Speaker 2: it doesn't feel good and it's really hard. You know,

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Speaker 2: I felt you'll hear people go, ah, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was dating this person and I just wasn't right and

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Speaker 2: I moved on, and I moved on, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of times if it's not right, move on. But it's like,

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Speaker 2: sometimes you know, you're too dynamic. I make growing people,

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Speaker 2: and if there's not that room for loving ruthless. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: I hate the word ruthless. I think that was the

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Speaker 2: wrong word to use. But this this kind of honesty

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Speaker 2: that needs to take place. If you can't get past

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Speaker 2: the ego, because we all have to contend with our ego,

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Speaker 2: it kind of makes it hard to have long term, sustainable,

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Speaker 2: empowering relationships in our life. And I think, you know what,

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Speaker 2: Gratitude wasn't the only emotion. I felt like. There were

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Speaker 2: times when I was like, I'm not gonna say it,

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Speaker 2: on the podcast, but the thoughts in my head, I

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Speaker 2: was quite pissed off and resentful. And then it's like, no,

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Speaker 2: because I know there were times in my life where

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Speaker 2: I wish somebody would have told me the truth. And

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a contradiction because as a coach, I'm

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Speaker 2: always like, well, I don't tell people, I'll ask. But

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Speaker 2: for me, I wished that they would have told me

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Speaker 2: the truth and they didn't think enough of me to

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Speaker 2: tell me the truth. And like when someone I really

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Speaker 2: care about that I have a strong friendship with tells

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Speaker 2: me something, or when anybody does this, but it holds

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Speaker 2: a lot more weight when there is that this emotional intimacy.

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Speaker 2: Is that true? Like is that true? Have I heard

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Speaker 2: this before? Or have I suspected I've noticed this pattern

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Speaker 2: with me? So around the same time we had this conversation,

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Speaker 2: I was told a lot of other things about myself

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Speaker 2: from someone else, and I said, when have I ever

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Speaker 2: heard this before? And the answer was, I have never

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Speaker 2: heard this before. Ever, this is the first time I've

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Speaker 2: ever heard this from someone. I'm not taking this on

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Speaker 2: board what I heard from you. It's like, oh, not

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Speaker 2: only have I heard it from someone, I didn't need to.

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Speaker 2: I know it. It's like god, it all right? What

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Speaker 2: is that impact that I'm having? And how do I

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Speaker 2: move forward and be a little bit more self aware

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Speaker 2: or what are the strategies that I can implement when

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Speaker 2: I feel I'm getting into a point emotionally where self

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Speaker 2: awareness is lacking. I need some preemptive tools otherwise I'm

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Speaker 2: going to perpetuate being this person in situations.

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Speaker 1: And I think, like I talk about this concept about

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Speaker 1: being an unreasonable friend, and the unreasonable friend is someone

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Speaker 1: that just tells you maybe what they think you need

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Speaker 1: to here, but maybe don't want to hear. And I

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Speaker 1: think if that is genuinely someone that loves you and

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Speaker 1: wants you to succeed, I think that's important. They actually

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Speaker 1: really want you to succeed, and they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to succeed because there's some upside for them, there's a

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Speaker 1: benefit for them. No, it's selfless. I just want you

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Speaker 1: to do well. You know this is a funny thing, right,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if you know this, but so

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Speaker 1: there's a guy over here called Sam Wood, and Sam

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Speaker 1: used to work for me Bobby's in the States. Everyone

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Speaker 1: in cash and figured that out by now but Sam

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Speaker 1: used to work for me. And Sam's killed it, crushed it.

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Speaker 1: He went on a show called The Bachelor, which you

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Speaker 1: have over there. He was the Bachelor, heaps of airtime.

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Speaker 1: He started a business called twenty eight. He's got a gym.

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Speaker 1: In fact, he's got what was my old gym now

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Speaker 1: that's called the Woodshed. But he's built this amazing brand

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Speaker 1: and become very, very very successful. And I reckon, I

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Speaker 1: get asked about once a month, so what do you

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Speaker 1: think of? What do you think of?

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Speaker 2: Sam?

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Speaker 1: Would you know? People like what do you think of?

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Speaker 1: And I think they're thinking they're waiting for me to

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Speaker 1: like say something critical or because he's just gone on

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Speaker 1: in leaps and bounds and he's a multi millionaire and

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Speaker 1: he's in the media and he's just killing it, and

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Speaker 1: I go, how fucking good is it? And they're like

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Speaker 1: what And I go, yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing, Like

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Speaker 1: he's killing it and I'm genuinely happy for him, and

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Speaker 1: people people can't believe that.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Of course it depends what metrics you use, but if

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Speaker 1: you just want to say commercial success crushing me, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm so happy that somebody that I worked

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Speaker 1: with somebody that actually originally worked for me, like there's

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Speaker 1: nothing in me that doesn't want him to succeed. And

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Speaker 1: I don't actually understand, like I mean, I theoretically understand it,

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Speaker 1: because I understand ego and I understand all the bullshit.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that genuinely being able to celebrate another person's success,

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Speaker 1: even if you're not right now succeeding, because if somebody

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Speaker 1: else is, if your friend's success bothers you, then you're

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Speaker 1: not a friend. That's not friendship.

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Speaker 2: What you're saying about this guy, he sounds brilliant and driven,

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Speaker 2: and he was on the Bachelor, so he's also probably

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Speaker 2: very good looking, and you know, you have to admit

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Speaker 2: someone like that. It does kind of help if they

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Speaker 2: have some really fucked up personality flaw, or if they

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Speaker 2: don't like a body part that's grotesquely deformed, like he's

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Speaker 2: got a couple of really jacked up toes but nobody

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Speaker 2: knows about it. I would find that a little bit

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Speaker 2: helpful to reconcile. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, he's annoyingly good looking, charismatic, charming, and pretty clever.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, he's he's got the fucking he's got the

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Speaker 1: whole Chilada.

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Speaker 2: He sounds horrible to be fair.

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Speaker 1: Oh dear, Oh dear, hey, I wanted to ask you. You

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Speaker 1: were talking before about like the interesting insection of a

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Speaker 1: couple of variables. One you kind of said that you're

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Speaker 1: probably less but something of a people pleaser at times,

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Speaker 1: which I think I have been at times as well.

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Speaker 1: But also you often operate in a position of leadership

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Speaker 1: and coaching and where you are giving people feedback and direction.

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Speaker 1: Where how do you do that? How do you give people?

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Speaker 1: You give people direction, feedback, input that they might not

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Speaker 1: want to hear, while so simultaneously not wanting to raffle

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Speaker 1: any metaphoric feathers.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought that up, because I think

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Speaker 2: when we're talking about close friendships there's a different dynamic.

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Speaker 2: And for me, in leadership, I feel like there's a

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Speaker 2: responsibility for the people in your charge. And I know

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Speaker 2: that most people have a level of reactance within their

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Speaker 2: operating system. And it's almost like, if you don't want

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Speaker 2: to move forward with people, or if you want people

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Speaker 2: to continue doing a behavior that is damaging to theirselfs

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Speaker 2: and others, tell them why they should stop doing it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe give them some science like some a couple of references,

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Speaker 2: definitely tell them what you would do in that situation,

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Speaker 2: and you're almost sure to perpetuate it for me. And

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Speaker 2: in that situation, I try to ask questions and first

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Speaker 2: the step because I had a conversation recently like this,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, all right, you know, you don't really

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Speaker 2: have to do anything, like just because I'm your leader

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Speaker 2: or you know, like your quote unquote boss, which I

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Speaker 2: don't I don't feel on anyone's boss, but just because

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Speaker 2: we're in that position within the organization, you don't have

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Speaker 2: to do what I tell you to do. There are

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Speaker 2: always other options, and you could you could passively resist too,

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Speaker 2: like all right, yeah, got your boss, but I'm going

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Speaker 2: to either comply or defy as soon as you leave

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Speaker 2: this room. But you know, if you were to do

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Speaker 2: something else, let's say a behavior that I would feel

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Speaker 2: constructive for your position, for you, for the team, for

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Speaker 2: the end user. What would be some of your reasons

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Speaker 2: and it might be none, but what would be some

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Speaker 2: of your reasons why you would do it? You know,

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Speaker 2: what are some of the outcomes that, if it worked out,

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Speaker 2: might be important to you? You know, out of those outcomes,

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Speaker 2: is there one that is quintessentially most significant, and why

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Speaker 2: that you know, like how how how prepared and ready

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Speaker 2: are you at this point to start working on that,

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Speaker 2: Because just because you acknowledge that a change could be

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Speaker 2: made and it might benefit me, it doesn't mean you're ready,

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Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you're confident, doesn't mean you're important. But

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Speaker 2: when we talk about readiness, like you know, let's say

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Speaker 2: it's like a five out of ten and I'm kind

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Speaker 2: of like on the fence, I don't know, why did

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Speaker 2: you not say a two? Right? Let's talk about the

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Speaker 2: rationale between a two and a five. Let's talk about

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Speaker 2: that significance if it were to move from a five

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Speaker 2: to six, what might need to happen, and you know,

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Speaker 2: without jumping all in, what might be an initial first

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Speaker 2: step you know, and what do you think happens if

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Speaker 2: you don't do it? So, just like a coaching based conversation,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot in between those. I mean, coaching is

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Speaker 2: not about asking better questions. It's being in response to

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Speaker 2: what happens after you ask that question. But if you

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Speaker 2: were going to frame it like that, I prefer to

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Speaker 2: have conversations like that for a lot of reasons. One

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Speaker 2: even even where I sit in the hierarchy within the organization.

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Speaker 2: I'm nobody to tell somebody what to do. I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to bring the best out of you and serve you right,

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Speaker 2: kind of like I don't work you know, it's like

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Speaker 2: you don't work for me as much as I work

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Speaker 2: for you. So that's first and foremost. Second, if someone

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Speaker 2: doesn't have emotional ownership and accountability over the responses, don't

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Speaker 2: expect long term change telling people what to do or

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Speaker 2: what their problem is. Like you said earlier, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is like doctor Phil, maybe on an emotional level,

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Speaker 2: but it was doctor Phil, we would be asking each

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Speaker 2: other two or three questions. I'd figure out exactly what's

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Speaker 2: wrong with you, and I tell you what to do,

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Speaker 2: and that would ninety nine percent of the time do

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Speaker 2: absolutely nothing but reinforce the behavior patterns that we're trying

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Speaker 2: to alleviate or eliminate. So I try to handle And

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Speaker 2: there's a great book called It's the Manager written by

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Speaker 2: Clifton and Harder to consultants and researchers out of Gallop,

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Speaker 2: and they said that seventy percent of the variance of

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Speaker 2: all performance productivity in any organization is your frontline manager.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, ah, my team sucks. They don't execute that.

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Speaker 2: You know what, The odds are overwhelming that if you're

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Speaker 2: the manager, it ain't your team mate, it's you. So

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Speaker 2: and one of the recommendations that they give on how

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Speaker 2: to kind of turn this around in an organization, the

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Speaker 2: biggest recommendation is switch from boss to coach because I

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Speaker 2: think you know, this goes back to Douglas McGregor in

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Speaker 2: decades ago in the human side of enterprise, where coming

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Speaker 2: out of the Industrial Revolution, it was kind of like

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Speaker 2: people are lazy, they'll get away with shit if you

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Speaker 2: let them. You need command, you need control, you need

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Speaker 2: assembly lines and checks and balances, and you know, people

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Speaker 2: are basically tools like a hammer, you know, a screwdriver.

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Speaker 2: And Douglas McGregor and his research, no, people only behave

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Speaker 2: like that when they don't feel that they have the tools,

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Speaker 2: the agency, or the autonomy. When people feel that they're

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Speaker 2: being controlled, yes they resort to that. But when people

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Speaker 2: understand and internalize the purpose of their work, they feel

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Speaker 2: they have the agency to perform it and the autonomy

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Speaker 2: to pursue it. They seek out responsibility, they seek out growth,

404
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Speaker 2: they seek out greater work ethic, so that that's a misconception.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a lot of times the way we

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Speaker 2: deal with people and the assumptions that we have that

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Speaker 2: bleed out onto them, that kind of creates patterns of

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Speaker 2: behavior that reinforce and internalize our own false beliefs about people.

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Speaker 1: Are you know, Yeah, it's so funny that the archaic

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Speaker 1: thinking and operating systems of businesses, you know, not that

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Speaker 1: long ago, ten twenty years ago, and maybe even some now.

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Speaker 1: But I saw a wasn't a documentary, but I saw

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Speaker 1: a story on a TV show over here. It was

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Speaker 1: like a fifteen minute story on this tech business and

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Speaker 1: then this tech startup that this guy and this lady created.

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Speaker 1: People kind of work when they want, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, if you want to start at seven am, cool,

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Speaker 1: If you want to start lunchtime, cool. Want to bring

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Speaker 1: your dog, no worries. Want to sit on a floor

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Speaker 1: in a bean bag with a laptop, yep. I want

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Speaker 1: to wear bare feet, no worry, as long as you're clean.

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Speaker 1: It's like there are so few rules. I mean, they've

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Speaker 1: got to obviously do their job, but other than that,

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Speaker 1: you know, don't punch anyone in the face, don't eat

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Speaker 1: all the cookies, you know, wipe your.

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Speaker 2: Feet, sucking the fine out of the work there crag.

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Speaker 1: And I was watching that and I was thinking, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, this is you know, it's not well, it's

429
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: not actually the job I want. But if I was

430
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: a computer program or a creative in that space or whatever,

431
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: I'm like that that is the joint of they are

432
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 1: the people I want to work with. That is the place.

433
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: And they interviewed the staff and they're like, no, this

434
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: is this is not a show for the cameras. This

435
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: is this is how it is. And you know, one

436
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: of the ladies was there and she had her I

437
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: don't know, like an eighteen month old there where she's

438
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: like I couldn't get a babysitter today or whatever, so

439
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: runs like cool, just handing the kid around and you know,

440
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: I have to it. And I'm like, yeah, imagine that.

441
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: Imagine imagine creating a space where people really want to be.

442
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: It's not like you're going to work because you've got

443
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: to go to work, and you've got to go to

444
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: work and drive there and sit in your cubicle and

445
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: look at your watch and go, oh fuck, it's nearly lunchtime.

446
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: And then oh it's nearly home time, and then oh god,

447
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: it's some finish, thank God, Like like genuinely they're either

448
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: the best actors of all time or that. It's just

449
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: they've created a culture and a physical space and a

450
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: kind of a mindset that people love to be in.

451
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: And since they've done that, I mean, they kind of

452
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: started that way, but they expanded more their productivity, efficiency, profit,

453
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: everything through the roof happiness like culture awesome. I'm like, yeah,

454
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: we could all maybe depending on the business, of course,

455
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: but maybe rethink some of the stuff that we've been

456
00:26:58,480 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: doing traditionally.

457
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think the more you lay down control and

458
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: infringe upon autonomy, the more you're self generating problems that

459
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 2: you believe exists again because of some innate attributes you

460
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: suspect people have. And there's been so much research on

461
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: i mean, just drawing off the top of my head.

462
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: Thomas Allen from MIT Gallop of course does an amazing

463
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: job at compiling an extraordinary amount of high quality data.

464
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: You've got Google in their own internal research on what

465
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: separates our top performing teams, which is just about everyone.

466
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: It's a very high pressure environment from the absolute best

467
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: of the best and it comes down to the same

468
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 2: things over and over. One psychological safety, two vulnerability three eight.

469
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: An organization driven on purpose. And if you want people

470
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 2: to work longer hours and order, don't make demands about

471
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: you've got to be at your cubicle for this number

472
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 2: of hours a day, because they'll clock in and clock

473
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: out exactly when you tell them to and then they're

474
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 2: checked out and they don't really care. People will work

475
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: longer and harder when they have the freedom to autonomously

476
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 2: decide how they engage with work. Now, of course you

477
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: have meetings or if, like you know, you owned a gym,

478
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: I'm a personal trainer. Yeah, you got to be here

479
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 2: when your clients are here, so you have a shift.

480
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: That makes sense. And I have mixed opinions about working

481
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: remote versus working in the office. I think whenever someone

482
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 2: says no, no, you have to be in the office,

483
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: or no, all work can be done remotely, it's like,

484
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: I think there's somewhere in the middle. I think we're

485
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: missing a few variables. This is not this is not

486
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: an open conversation. But for the for the most part,

487
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 2: the more you try to control people, the more you

488
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 2: get exactly what you're managing. It's just cool.

489
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also think about it's like a cobs good

490
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: or bad? Well, well, for who which carbs? What situation?

491
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: Are they an endurance athlete? Are they a bodybuilder? Are

492
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: they a corporate dude who wants to lose a few pounds.

493
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: I mean it's like a dumb question, which is like, oh,

494
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: is remote better or is in the office better? Well?

495
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: For who? What's the job, what's the situation, what's their role,

496
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: what's their personality? Like does it give them anxiety leaving home?

497
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: Does it? You know? Like I think with many of

498
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: these variables and many of these kind of conversations around

499
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: what is better, well, there is no single answer to

500
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: that because there are too many variables. It's like, well,

501
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: you know, like my job, I have not had an

502
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: employer since I was twenty five years old. Well that

503
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: was thirty six years ago. I haven't had an actual job.

504
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: I haven't had holiday pay or sick pay for three

505
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: and a half decades. I've every for the last three

506
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: and a half decades. Every month I'm earning a different

507
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: amount of money. There's probably no month where I earn

508
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: exactly the same money. Some months are good, some months

509
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: a shit some months are terrifying, some months are like amazing, right,

510
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: But I would not recommend what I do to most

511
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: people because most people's personality or situation would not be

512
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: suited to this, or it wouldn't be suited to them, you.

513
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: Know, absolutely, you know. I want to refer to a

514
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: couple of past episodes on the You Project if I can.

515
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: I mean for the listeners, I know you know what

516
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: you were talking about. But I think our last episode,

517
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: which was what eighty nineteen, Mel sent me the file.

518
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: Forgive me if that's wrong, but I'm sure that was

519
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: a great episode too, So go listen to that. We

520
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: were talking about why do people need so much consensus

521
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: and absolutely have to agree with each other. I think

522
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: historically when people feel under threat and the world is

523
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: changing so rapidly, people feel a level of anxiety. Or

524
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people I work with in

525
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: multiple industries are voicing this. You kind of had to

526
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: know that people in the tribe thought a certain way

527
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: and behaved a certain way, like if we're going out,

528
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 2: we're hunting some giant animal, and if somebody screws up,

529
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 2: like someone's gonna get trampled, and none of us are

530
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: gonna eat and we're gonna starve. It's like, I need

531
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: to know that when we say go this way, you're

532
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: gonna go this way and not go the other way.

533
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like, if you're doing shit and

534
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: saying shit in the tribe, that's just like, way out there. God,

535
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: you're not predictable, You're a threat. And I think that

536
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: kind of probably is embedded a little bit in our DNA.

537
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: The other side of that is if we don't recognize

538
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: that we're living, we don't really have the dynamic complexity

539
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: and diversity of opinions and expertise that we need to

540
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 2: innovate and move forward in an organization. And you cannot

541
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: have these sound bite beliefs. Are carbs good or are

542
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: they bad? Right? Should I open up my own business?

543
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: Should I be an entrepreneur because entrepreneur good employee bad?

544
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: Oh my god. There's a lot of context and probably

545
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: biological and psychological individuality. You know. You interviewed Susan Slide,

546
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: who I've known for decades, and I was on her

547
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: show and my dog had just died. So I was like, Okay,

548
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: I'm not going to cancel the show, but I was

549
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: I was wrecked on that show, and she had said,

550
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 2: you know, when you're getting into your own business, what's

551
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: the most important thing to consider? And you know, I

552
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: wasn't thinking at all, and I just responded with brutal honesty.

553
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: I was like, shit, you know, it's not an inspiring answer,

554
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: but know what the hell you're getting into and who

555
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 2: you're wanting are Because there's some things I've had. I've

556
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: had a few businesses, and I learned there are some

557
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: things that I'm really really good at and there are

558
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: some things where it's almost satirical how bad I am.

559
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,479
Speaker 2: It's like, if you don't have the right partners with

560
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: complementary skill sets. I know, for me, like I'm capital

561
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: F you know, three letters after that, it's bad. You

562
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: really got to have that level of self awareness.

563
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I mean business partnerships in general, they're tricky,

564
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: you know. And I mean I've had a few business

565
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: partners and they all started out good. They didn't all

566
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: end bad. In fact, none of them ended terribly. But yeah,

567
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: like things change, people change, people's priorities change over time,

568
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: and what what you originally had sometimes that disappears, and

569
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: you know, you go, Okay, I think it's to trying

570
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: to navigate the you know, the ever shifting landscape of

571
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: pretty much everything. It's like, what used to work for

572
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: me professionally when I was in my twenties didn't really

573
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: float my boat in my thirties. You know, there was

574
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: a time like you, when you were on the gym

575
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: floor and you were you were working in gyms and

576
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: inspiring and training and educating and selling and all that

577
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: stuff that you did. And there was a time there,

578
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: I'm sure where you fucking loved it and you got

579
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: a sense of self worth and all the stuff. You

580
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: same with me. You know the ex fat kid Now

581
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: he's training people. Wow, like he's not fat anymore. No.

582
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: I got self esteem and self worth and recognition and

583
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 1: acceptance and love and this is amazing. And then five

584
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 1: years later, yeah, this is pretty good. And then five

585
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: years later, yeah, it's all right. And then eventually it's like, nah,

586
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm over this and it's not bad. It's just that

587
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: this doesn't work for me anymore. I need to do

588
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: other things, other ways. I need to learn new stuff.

589
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: I need to talk to different people about different things,

590
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: and I need to I need to evolve, and I can't.

591
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: I've been living in this kind of box for a

592
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 1: decade or so, and something else has to happened, now,

593
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: you know.

594
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 2: I think that's a positive sign. It's like Ralph Waldo

595
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: Emerson said that a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of

596
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: little minds. It's like, just because you've changed and you're

597
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: not thinking and being the same person you are ten

598
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: years ago, it's not inconsistency. I think it's it's one

599
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: of the most prominent signs of interpersonal growth. Like you've done.

600
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 2: I think when you do well, you outgrow things because

601
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 2: as you deepen your expertise, you see more you have,

602
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 2: you could form more distinctions, and those distinctions uncover new

603
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: motivations and passions and paths, and it's beautiful. It's beautiful

604
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 2: to see that when you're working with people or people

605
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: on your team. I don't know if we see that

606
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: as much with ourselves, or maybe we do it. I'm

607
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: just talking shit. What do I know anyway?

608
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: Not at all. I mean, this is going to sound

609
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: totally cheesy, and I don't always live up to this,

610
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: but I feel like when I was younger, it wasn't

611
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: all about the getting. But I was a fair bit

612
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: about what am I getting. I'm getting recognition, I'm getting acceptance,

613
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm getting money, I'm getting a bigger business, I'm getting profile.

614
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: It was really I wanted to help people, but as

615
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: probably we wanted to help myself the most. And then

616
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: I got to a point, which a lot of people do,

617
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: where I was moderately successful and you're like, well, I'm

618
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: way more successful than I was in that I'm earning

619
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: more dough and I'm doing all these good things and

620
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: I've got a house and I own a couple of things.

621
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: And you're like, yeah, but I'm not any happier. What

622
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: is that about? Not necessarily one causes the other. Maybe

623
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: they're disparate variables, but I think they're intertwined some how

624
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: for most people. So for me, it was like the

625
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: getting phase, and then it was like the who am

626
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: I becoming? Phase? Not what am I getting? And then

627
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: it was like the what am I giving? It's like

628
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: the getting and the becoming and the giving, and they're

629
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: still all intertwined somewhat. But you know, I'm I'm not

630
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: even though I make okay money, I'm not driven by money.

631
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't it doesn't excite me. It's not my it

632
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: used to be my KPI. It's not anymore. It's like, yeah,

633
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: I've got to pay the bills and look after mum

634
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: and dad a bit and you know, put bloody petrol

635
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: in the car and all those things. But yeah, it's

636
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: just it's it's things just shift. Like you're like, what

637
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: is wealth kind of shifts?

638
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, what do you think creates that shift?

639
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: Is it?

640
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: Is it maturity? Is it security? Like financial or emotional?

641
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 2: You know, I have a little bit like what drives

642
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: that illution? Because it's common, not with everybody, but with

643
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: a large enough amount of people that you can kind

644
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 2: of see that trajectory. What do you think's behind it? Yeah?

645
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: Good question. So I think the thing, you know, the

646
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: whole lot of money doesn't make it happy. Yeah, I

647
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: get that, but it kind of does if you've got

648
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: no money. Yeah, people with money say that, right, But

649
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: then people with no money, all of a sudden they've

650
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: got money. Well, this is pretty fucking great. So, as

651
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: you and I have said before, there's a there's a

652
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: correlation and to a certain point, but I think beyond that. Yeah,

653
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean I was when I was young, I was

654
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 1: literally I used to work six days a week in

655
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: a gym and three or four nights a week in

656
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: pubs getting punched in the face for twelve dollars an

657
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,720
Speaker 1: hour making you know, like I worked seventy eighty hours

658
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: and earned not a lot of money. So I worked

659
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: very hard for a long time making lot not lots

660
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: of dough. So I definitely didn't come from any kind

661
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: of privilege or upper class, right, I just grinded, and

662
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: that's and I'm glad I did because it gave me

663
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 1: context and awareness.

664
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 2: Right.

665
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: But then then I think, for me, when I got

666
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: to a point where I went, well, now I'm comfortable

667
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: and now I own things, it was just an awareness

668
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: thing that this, while none of this is bad and

669
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: I'm very grateful for what I have, money isn't my purpose,

670
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: you know. It's like, oh, this is just a tool

671
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: and a resource that's pretty good to have, but it's

672
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: not my reason for getting out of bed. It's not

673
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: who I am. And then I think, while also at

674
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: the same time, these things don't need to operate in isolation.

675
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, I need to try and be

676
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: commercially successful or I need to be the Dali Lama,

677
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: like I can have a for want of a better term,

678
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: a loving, kind, spiritual component to my existence. But also

679
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: be a guy who charges that company lots of day

680
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: to go and talk they can afford it. I'm not

681
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: bad at it. I've done it a lot. That's my

682
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: commercial value in that space. This is what I'm charging,

683
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: that's what you're paying me. Thanks very much, see you

684
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: next time. It's all good. But also happy to talk

685
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: to that person that doesn't have any dough And you know,

686
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: not every person every time, of course, because there's a

687
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 1: number of hours in a day. But you know where

688
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: there are things that I've done some gigs for for

689
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: organizations where they literally can't afford to pay a speaker,

690
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: and I just you know, I volunteer my time and gladly,

691
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 1: and some of those have been the best things I've

692
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: ever done. Where you're driving two hours, you're talking to

693
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: seventy people in a tennis club and it's like it's

694
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 1: so not glamorous and you get paid zero dollars zero

695
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: and it's fucking amazing.

696
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 2: You know.

697
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: That's that's some of the things that lock me on fire.

698
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 2: I would love to do that. When talking about that,

699
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, that sounds like a fun day but

700
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about tennis. What am I gonna say?

701
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 2: You know, I think I don't think money does make

702
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: you happy because I know a lot of people we

703
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: both do that are like obscenely wealthy. Some of them

704
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: are happy as a pagan shit. Other people are just

705
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: perpetually miserable. But I do believe that a lack of

706
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: money definitely makes you unhappy. Now, I mean, Maslow's hierarchy

707
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: of human needs is pretty flawed. I mean it was,

708
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: you know, done studying a bunch of middle aged white

709
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: guys in mid twentieth century US, and you know which

710
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 2: one of the How those needs are met and how

711
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: they show up is different culturally. But the idea that

712
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: you know, if one need is glaring unmet, it kind

713
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: of doesn't allow space for the other needs to manifest.

714
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 2: There's some truth to that. You know. If I'm homeless

715
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: and I'm starving, I'm not really thinking about my legacy.

716
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 2: I'm not thinking about how I'm gonna connect with an

717
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 2: audience and like contribute at my workplace. I don't have

718
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 2: a workplace. What I'm thinking about is I need to

719
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 2: find food. How am I going to make that happen? So, yes,

720
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 2: it's that those kind of things, and it's not just

721
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 2: it's not just the money. I think it's poverty on

722
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: any emotional level. And I don't want to dismiss how

723
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: crushing poverty is because I think it's something like ninety

724
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: eight percent of anyone who grows up within a certain

725
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 2: postal cold and within a socioeconomic status stays there. And

726
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: I doubt, I doubt that ninety eight percent are just

727
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: unmotivated and fucked up. So I do think resource versus

728
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 2: available to matter way more than most people would admit.

729
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: But what if I also have like an emotional level

730
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 2: of deprivation where I don't really have confidence. I've not

731
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: been out in the world. I have passions, but I

732
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 2: don't know what I'm capable of. And then it's like, oh,

733
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: you know what I do make a difference. I am

734
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 2: making a contribution. Shit, you know this is not about me.

735
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 2: You know I could take my focus off of me

736
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 2: and put it increasingly on other things and other people

737
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 2: that transcend my own immediate needs because I feel secure

738
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 2: enough to do that.

739
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking to some We've got to wind up.

740
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: But I was talking to somebody else the other day

741
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: and we're talking about the fact that, you know, in

742
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: a world of eight billion people, two billion people can't

743
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: walk up to a tap and get some water. You know,

744
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: they can't turn a tap on, get a glass of water,

745
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: or fill a kettle, or you know, or have a

746
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: have a shower, have a bath. You know, two billion people,

747
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: you know, twenty five percent of the world's population don't

748
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: have access to food whenever they want. It's probably more

749
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: than that, but like there are so you know you yeah,

750
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: I mean I can't talk for everyone listening to this,

751
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: of course, but I for one, I just I am.

752
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful and also like a tiny bit guilty.

753
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: It's like I was born in Australia, which is point

754
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: what is it? It's like point zero three percent of

755
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: the world's popular some tiny amount. It's like, statistically, to

756
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: be born in Australia is one in three hundred, That's

757
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: what it is, one in three hundred to be born

758
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: in a place where for me, anyway, I had loving parents,

759
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: I went to good schools. I never I never had

760
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 1: to you know, there was no hardship, and I didn't

761
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: deserve any of that. I didn't deserve any of it.

762
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: I was just lucky. I was just lucky to have

763
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: the parents I had to be born in the place

764
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: I was, you know, and it's like, yeah, it's that's

765
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: but like a lot of people do not, and I know,

766
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: without opening a door, we don't want it. But you

767
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: didn't have that, you know, you you had some struggles

768
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about and have spoken about but another day.

769
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like a lot of people start, as

770
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: you said, you know, nine app percent of people who

771
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: are born in a certain postcode or postal or area

772
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: code as whatever you zip code as you call it

773
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: over there whatever. Yeah, and that's that's just where they

774
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: were born, and that's just their starting point, which is

775
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: there's no fairness to any of that, got it.

776
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: There's so much I want to say. I know we've

777
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 2: got to wrap up, so I will meet I'll make

778
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: this short, but yeah, you're right. I was growing up

779
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 2: in interesting circumstances, as many people do. And you know,

780
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 2: I was having this conversation with my boss earlier today,

781
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: who's an extraordinary woman. I mean, she's probably one of

782
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: the most extraordinary people I know. And I was saying,

783
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: because we are working within multiple industries that are pretty

784
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 2: shaken up right now, for a lot of different reasons.

785
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 2: I feel so lucky and grateful that I can make

786
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 2: a contribution that hopefully makes people's lives a little bit

787
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: less painful, more resilient, and more engaging. And I'm very

788
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 2: happy that I'm sitting where I'm sitting within the organization.

789
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: But I don't feel guilty at all. I feel zero

790
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: guilt that other people can't get water. And you know,

791
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: I was lucky enough to be born into the United States,

792
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: because you cannot help anyone who's suffering by suffering with

793
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 2: them at their depth. Like, I think the person who

794
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: started turning my life around was Mitch Mitchell Pacifico, the

795
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: owner of Gold gym aj If Mitch didn't have a gym,

796
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 2: and like I don't know, he was serving time at

797
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 2: the moment and his life was horrible, would have never

798
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: impacted me, So my life would have been dramatically different.

799
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 2: He was in a position to help me, and he

800
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 2: was willing. And I think you know it, Emmon's and McCullough,

801
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,879
Speaker 2: they've done some great research on gratitude. But I think

802
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,959
Speaker 2: when it tying it back to what you said about

803
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: rapport earlier, one of the most powerful mechanisms of gratitude

804
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: is when you're feeling it, you express it. And what

805
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 2: that does for people and how they react to you

806
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 2: and what that does for social bonds and ties is beautiful.

807
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of it is transcendent. So

808
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 2: it's like I've been working on living just for today

809
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 2: because I'm a very anxious person. I'm always thinking about

810
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: the future and looking back in the past, which can

811
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: be constructive, but too much of that not at all.

812
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: And it's like, Okay, what can I do today? I

813
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 2: don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, but we've got

814
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 2: over one hundred thousand people that are depending on us today.

815
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: What can I do just to contribute and move the

816
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: needle today? And you know, it's keeping me, it's keeping

817
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 2: me kind of focused.

818
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're doing a good job. I mean, you

819
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: know you're doing a good job. Despite that feedback from

820
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: Craig Harper.

821
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,439
Speaker 2: A year ago, Thank you, mate, so weird. I appreciate that,

822
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: and I appreciate the commenter year ago.

823
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: Thanks buddy. You look after your mate. And I think

824
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: we're skipping next week because we're both inter state or

825
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: we're both doing stuff.

826
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: But I'll see you see.

827
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll talk soon.

828
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 2: Bye everybody, Bye Craig,