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Speaker 1: Apodge production.

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Speaker 2: This episode contains distressing material including abuse, physical violence, psychological manipulation,

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Speaker 2: and coercive control. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to Secrets

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Speaker 2: of the Underworld. I am Neil the Muscle Comments, and

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Speaker 2: in this episode, I speak with Karen Teesdale, a woman

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Speaker 2: who spent forty eight years being abused by her own mother.

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Speaker 3: I actually said to this lady, I think my mom's

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Speaker 3: poisoning me. She rang my mother, and my mother made

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Speaker 3: my life absolute health, she said to that young woman

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Speaker 3: who was struggling very badly with her health, I hope

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Speaker 3: you have pemore doesn't work. She was a very evil person,

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Speaker 3: you know. I mean she pushed the shovel in me

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Speaker 3: hand and took me into a garden and said, you're

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Speaker 3: going to dig your grieve, and I had to dig.

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Speaker 1: Karen, thank you for coming on my podcast and sharing

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Speaker 1: your story. I've really been intrigued about your story ever

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Speaker 1: since I heard it on other podcasts and in news

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Speaker 1: and on social media, so I'm glad that you've picked

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Speaker 1: my podcast to come and share it. Before we get

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Speaker 1: into the nitty gritty, I'd like you to just tell

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Speaker 1: me you know about you growing up school friends, parents,

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Speaker 1: your brother, some memories before you actually got to know

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Speaker 1: what was going on in your life, on what your

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Speaker 1: mother was really like, and then we'll go on from

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Speaker 1: there if you care.

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Speaker 3: Great. Thank you first of all, Neil, thank you for

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Speaker 3: having us on your show as well. I feeling good,

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Speaker 3: thank you, thank you. I come from a very small

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Speaker 3: village just outside of Newcastle upon Tayne in the UK.

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Speaker 3: I was born in a village called lynn Screen. Then

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Speaker 3: I moved into another house twenty three Lisa's View, high

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Speaker 3: Field Estate, which is just a couple of miles up

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Speaker 3: from the village where I lived when all of this

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Speaker 3: happened in my life, I had one brother, Brian, and

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Speaker 3: my father's Brian as well, Brian Teesdale Senior, and my

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Speaker 3: mother was Mary Isabelle Teasdale.

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Speaker 1: Let's go to your school then, just first, how was that?

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Speaker 1: Did you ever have friends that came over to your

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Speaker 1: house or have a normal life when your friends after

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Speaker 1: school would come over and use a hangout. Would that

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Speaker 1: ever happen? Yes?

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Speaker 3: I did have friends, but from day one when I

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Speaker 3: realized looking back, my mum always did things to destroy

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Speaker 3: our friendships. That was both me and me brother's friendships,

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Speaker 3: mine and his. She came across as extremely protective and

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Speaker 3: extremely posessive, you know, and no matter which friendships we developed,

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Speaker 3: she would always do something or say something to destroy

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Speaker 3: those friendships. But yes, I did have friends who came over,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of the time we ma'am would scare

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Speaker 3: people off as well by her behavior or how she

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Speaker 3: treat me. For example, she would lash me in front.

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Speaker 1: Of people really.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and she would actually make them go to get

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Speaker 3: the leather belt to make resentment so to between me

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Speaker 3: and the person she was doing it with. Say, for example,

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Speaker 3: it's in me both poison kisses by carent Teesdale. I

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Speaker 3: have a friend who I'm still friends with today called Carol,

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Speaker 3: and Carol can remember as well needing to go to

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Speaker 3: seek the leather belt and to watch me being lashed.

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Speaker 3: How I was probably about nine or something like that.

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Speaker 1: I was very young, nine years old.

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Speaker 3: Maybe younger actually.

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Speaker 1: And she's asked your friend to go and get the

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Speaker 1: leather belt.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she did. But the thing is I began me

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Speaker 3: both four years old. I can remember a lashing me

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Speaker 3: then as well, from day one, and I also remember

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Speaker 3: lying on me tummy and not being able to lie

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Speaker 3: on me back for a long time, and I can

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Speaker 3: remember even the feeling of the blood blister ridges on

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Speaker 3: me back.

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Speaker 1: Well, going back to your friend coming over, would she

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Speaker 1: go and tell her parents what she's seen?

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Speaker 3: She said she was terrified to even breathe a word

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Speaker 3: about it. You know, she said, in hindsight, her parents

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Speaker 3: probably wouldn't have looked at my mom like that, and

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Speaker 3: she would have felt like she was saying something wrong.

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Speaker 3: But she can remember everything about and she was trembling.

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Speaker 1: You know, was your mom different in front of adults

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Speaker 1: compared to your school friends?

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Speaker 3: Yes, she was. She chose who she would let's see

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Speaker 3: that side of a massively different in front of people

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Speaker 3: she wanted to impress or you know, if she wanted

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Speaker 3: them to like her, or whatever she wanted to achieve.

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Speaker 3: She could. I used to say she had around about

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Speaker 3: thirty eight different personalities.

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Speaker 4: Jesus, what kind of job did your mom do for

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Speaker 4: a living?

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Speaker 3: Me, ma'am would make money from anything and everything if

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Speaker 3: it stood still, she sold it.

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Speaker 1: Wow, did she have a job or was it just

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Speaker 1: whatever was ever it was going on that she just me?

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Speaker 3: Ma'm was a business woman. She actually had her own shop.

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Speaker 3: She worked her way up, She worked in a factory

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Speaker 3: when I was younger, but she sold things from the

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Speaker 3: boot of the core, including our clothes, and if we

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Speaker 3: left it, they buy mistake. She worked on markets. She

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Speaker 3: had a lot of friends within the market trade. She

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Speaker 3: imported disco roller skates and Ruba cubes. We were probably

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Speaker 3: the first in the UK to have those. And then

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Speaker 3: she moved on to important diamonds and she had her

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Speaker 3: own boutique and everything. You know, she had a lot

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Speaker 3: of friends in lots of places. Shall we say?

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Speaker 4: Was she the money maker for the family.

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Speaker 3: She convinced me dad to retire young and help her

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Speaker 3: in business. And then although she had the business, and

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Speaker 3: she'd encourage me dad to help her, which was her

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Speaker 3: dream what she wanted to do because my father was

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Speaker 3: he wrote potry and music. But she then took all

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Speaker 3: the credit for all of the money coming in, even

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Speaker 3: though he worked just as hard in the business.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back a bit. When your friends used to

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Speaker 1: come over, You've said that you know, Carol's seen what

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Speaker 1: your mom is like and she was scared.

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Speaker 4: Did you want to reach out to anybody?

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Speaker 3: I did reach out a couple of times to people,

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Speaker 3: even in infant school. I'd actually spoken to a headmistress

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Speaker 3: who dip down I'd wished was going to take me

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Speaker 3: home with her, and I had said, my mommy doesn't

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Speaker 3: love me. I did reach out on another occasion to

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Speaker 3: another lady when I was a young teenage girl. I

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Speaker 3: actually said to this lady, I think my mom's poisoning me.

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Speaker 3: And this lady quietened me by saying that I was

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Speaker 3: nasty saying that about me mother. But I'd obviously thought

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Speaker 3: that something was going wrong in me family life at home,

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Speaker 3: because I was never ill when I stayed at my

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Speaker 3: grandma's house, but I was ill regularly at me mom's house.

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Speaker 4: See.

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Speaker 1: I find it so funny that you say this, because

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking back to that now. When I was a

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Speaker 1: kid back in the late seventies, if there was something

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Speaker 1: wrong that you needed to say one, you'd be scared

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Speaker 1: to too.

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Speaker 4: They'd never believe you. Yeah, that was the hardest thing.

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Speaker 1: And even when I used to tell school teachers about stuff,

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Speaker 1: you know, even if it wasn't that severe, they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: believe me because they just thought I was making up

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Speaker 1: a story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. And what happened to me as well

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Speaker 3: when I'd told the head mistress that time, and I

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Speaker 3: don't get anything from it speaking out about me mom.

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Speaker 3: I know that I have to tell me story to

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Speaker 3: protect other people as well, and to give them a

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Speaker 3: voice and enable them to speak out. But my mother

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Speaker 3: when she got me home, teachers didn't inform social services

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Speaker 3: automatically or nothing like that. Way back then, she rang

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Speaker 3: my mother, and my mother made my life absolute hell

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Speaker 3: for speaking out. So Anne, you very very young not

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Speaker 3: to speak out, because the punishment for speaking out was horrendous.

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Speaker 1: What was the punishment more lashings? Was that mostly what

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Speaker 1: she did to the lashings.

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Speaker 3: From being a very young child. I remember that occasion

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Speaker 3: she nicked me hand together so tight, dragged us down,

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Speaker 3: pushed us in the house, and encouraged me brother to

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Speaker 3: beat us at the same time. And it was a

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Speaker 3: regular occurrence in my family home that she would get

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Speaker 3: my brother to do.

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Speaker 1: The beatens and he would go through it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and he would be rewarded with food and deprived

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Speaker 3: of food if we didn't abe. That was some of

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Speaker 3: the punishment, and being beat with the leather belt regularly,

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Speaker 3: but it was more than that as well. It was

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Speaker 3: the ostracize and being made to feel like you didn't

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Speaker 3: belong and the name calling. You know, she actually called

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Speaker 3: me a trait when I told the headmistress that I

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Speaker 3: thought me mommy didn't love me and I was just

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Speaker 3: a child, and I didn't know what a trait I was.

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Speaker 3: I just knew it was something bad because of how

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Speaker 3: she said it. You know, children don't always pick up

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Speaker 3: on what's being done to them, but children do pick

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Speaker 3: up on an energy around them. Yeah, how they feel

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Speaker 3: or how they made to feel.

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Speaker 1: Did your brother ever come to you after he's had

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Speaker 1: to beat you and apologize or try and like what

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Speaker 1: was going through his head?

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Speaker 3: I know when I was lashed with the blood blister,

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Speaker 3: ridges were on me back. That was after we'd been

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Speaker 3: in the path together. We was that young. We were

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Speaker 3: in the bath together. You know, I think he was

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Speaker 3: terrified of her as well. And when I lifted up

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Speaker 3: me top and showed me back, I can remember him

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Speaker 3: saying fuck, you know, like out of sheer shock. And

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Speaker 3: I know he felt felt for us, you know, I

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Speaker 3: know he cared, but he didn't really say sorry. He

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Speaker 3: was more trying to keep in with me mom and

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Speaker 3: spending his days trying to be the one that was

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Speaker 3: out of that situation. So he regularly beat me without

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Speaker 3: saying sorry, sort of took it on as his role

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Speaker 3: the golden child as well, you know, which is how

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Speaker 3: I perceived him as being as well, until later on

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Speaker 3: in life when I realized she felt nothing for him either.

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Speaker 1: What about you, dad? Wish your dad just letting this happen.

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Speaker 3: She was very careful and she would issue the punishment

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Speaker 3: when my dad wasn't present. But I do remember one

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Speaker 3: occasion where I was quite black all over my body

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Speaker 3: with being beaten so much. I remember my dad screaming

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Speaker 3: when he saw how bruised I was, and I can

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Speaker 3: remember him reacting and saying, you know, what the fuck's

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Speaker 3: gone on here? And it was me brother who'd beaten

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Speaker 3: us on the orders of my mother and was six

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Speaker 3: years older than me. You know, it's a lot of

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Speaker 3: difference my dad. I remember my dad chastise and me brother,

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Speaker 3: but before there didn't realize as much that she was behind.

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Speaker 1: Everything that's insane.

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Speaker 3: She worked through him from day one. She had a

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Speaker 3: hold on us, you know, she made us respect her

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Speaker 3: and who she was at that level of fear. You know,

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Speaker 3: she didn't just instill fear into us by the Lassians

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Speaker 3: and the good hidings and appearing innocent, all the while

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Speaker 3: using our own son to dish out these hidings. She

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Speaker 3: was very, very very psychological with us. And when I

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Speaker 3: say that, I mean she kept us in a psychological prison.

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Speaker 3: She instilled fear into us about illnesses and death all

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Speaker 3: of the time, and she made sure that she was

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Speaker 3: the savior and we needed her, so we would clamor

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Speaker 3: for that reprieve. Even to be, you know, treat mildly

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Speaker 3: nice was an honor, to achieve some kind of good mood.

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Speaker 1: You're you're nine, even younger than nine years old, and

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Speaker 1: you're get beaten black and blue? Are you thinking about revenge?

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Speaker 1: Are you thinking about how much you hate it?

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Speaker 4: What is going for your mind?

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Speaker 3: No, I didn't go like that. I think what happened

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Speaker 3: was the whole time because of it being so violent

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Speaker 3: and aggressive, and we were poorly a lot, we needed

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00:14:41,321 --> 00:14:46,681
Speaker 3: our mother. We dependency created, and instead of hate, we

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Speaker 3: concentrated on an everyday basis of trying to.

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Speaker 1: Please that so whatever happened the night before would be

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Speaker 1: forgotten the next day.

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Speaker 3: I think whatever happened the night before for us, we

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Speaker 3: would just hope that the next day wasn't going to

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Speaker 3: be the same. Instead, of feeling. It's crazy because a

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Speaker 3: child doesn't hate that parent, that just wish that parent

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Speaker 3: was being nice to them. So we would everyday Basis

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Speaker 3: tried and applicate her. And I'll look back now and

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Speaker 3: I realize that rather than thinking outside of the box

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Speaker 3: for myself, I think I went in over. I think

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Speaker 3: my brother developed hatred.

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Speaker 4: Did you feel more safer when your dad was at home?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yes, my dad was lovely my dad. I felt

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Speaker 3: much safer when my dad was at home because my

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Speaker 3: dad wouldn't let me brother hit us ever. He would

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Speaker 3: stop him if he ever tried to hit us and

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Speaker 3: my dad was there, my dad wouldn't allow it. Me

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00:15:50,521 --> 00:15:53,241
Speaker 3: mom didn't like that. She didn't like how much Befather

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Speaker 3: loved me either, and that was a very very big

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Speaker 3: thing in the family home. She would say to me

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Speaker 3: father in front of me brother as well, which I

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Speaker 3: believe severely damaged me brother. She would say, you don't

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Speaker 3: love him, your only love, hay. And she would tell

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Speaker 3: me brother that my father didn't love him, and she'd

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Speaker 3: drill that into my brother's head.

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Speaker 1: Was there much conflict between your brother and your dad? No?

253
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Speaker 3: Not in younger yeays in younger years, me. Dad was

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Speaker 3: very clever. He was very musical. He played the guitar,

255
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Speaker 3: he wrote poetry, and he wrote his own songs, words

256
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Speaker 3: and music. And when my ma'am was out, it was

257
00:16:42,041 --> 00:16:46,281
Speaker 3: lovely because we could all sit together and my dad

258
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Speaker 3: would sing songs and my brother would go on the mike,

259
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Speaker 3: and he was lovely to both of us. He really was,

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Speaker 3: you know, And I know my dad loved both of us.

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00:16:57,721 --> 00:17:01,161
Speaker 3: And my brother became very, very clever musically, the same

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Speaker 3: as me father, and you know he did follow that

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Speaker 3: career in his life.

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Speaker 4: Do you have any fond memories of being a child?

265
00:17:12,201 --> 00:17:17,081
Speaker 3: Have more sad memories? Not really, because the I mean

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Speaker 3: there's moments when I look back, and of course there

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00:17:20,801 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 3: must have been some because there was a trauma bond

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00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,641
Speaker 3: formed between me and me mother, where a forgive and

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00:17:27,681 --> 00:17:33,801
Speaker 3: forgive and forgiver, the same as a domestic violence relationship.

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00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:39,720
Speaker 3: But the difference is in a domestic violence relationship you

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00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,761
Speaker 3: can actually learn to break free from that. When it's

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Speaker 3: a parent, it's deep as deep can go. It's to

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Speaker 3: your soul. It's the only person you've ever known in

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Speaker 3: your life. And of course my mom with her having

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Speaker 3: the Munchausen by proxy. She made it where we were

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00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:07,400
Speaker 3: dependent on her even further, so we founded hard to

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00:18:07,521 --> 00:18:13,321
Speaker 3: break free from that trauma bond. So things were happy

278
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:19,400
Speaker 3: as long as we were doing everything our mother said,

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Speaker 3: even if they were wrong things to do in life.

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Speaker 4: With your mother? Did she have sisters or brothers?

281
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Speaker 3: Yes?

282
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Speaker 4: She did, and what were they like?

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Speaker 3: She didn't really mix with them, and we were ostracized

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Speaker 3: from everyone. So apart from I was, I spent a

285
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Speaker 3: lot of time with me mom's mom. She was lovely

286
00:18:42,001 --> 00:18:45,921
Speaker 3: and me auntie. She passed away quite young. Me mom's

287
00:18:45,961 --> 00:18:49,321
Speaker 3: sister and me mom's brother didn't have anything to do

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Speaker 3: with me.

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Speaker 1: Mo'm okay. So what about your mum's mom? Did she

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Speaker 1: ever see what was going on? Surely she would have

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Speaker 1: seen you black and blue?

292
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Speaker 3: No, she didn't because she didn't really come to me

293
00:19:01,801 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 3: mom's house very often. And me, m'm chose who would say, oh, no, anything? Yeah,

294
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Speaker 3: but my grandma did take me under a wing, so

295
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:17,561
Speaker 3: I have no doubt whatsoever in my heart she knew me.

296
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Speaker 3: Mother was resentful towards me.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about a Christmas in your family was the one?

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Speaker 3: Yes, we did, we had Christmases. I remember a young

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Speaker 3: Christmas way when I was young, my dad had said,

300
00:19:35,681 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 3: have you not got anything for the ben meaning me?

301
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,120
Speaker 3: And I didn't think anything of it. My mom said,

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00:19:42,241 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 3: she's already had everything, and I hadn't. Being little. I

303
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,321
Speaker 3: just went straight over to me brothers McConnell and played

304
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:54,001
Speaker 3: with that. And I didn't actually think it was wrong

305
00:19:54,721 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 3: not to get as much as him. And I grew

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00:19:59,281 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 3: up with that belief because it had happened for a

307
00:20:02,241 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 3: lot of years. And even when I got married and

308
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:11,801
Speaker 3: had my own two sons, my ex husband said, why

309
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,680
Speaker 3: does your mom not get anything for you? But she

310
00:20:14,761 --> 00:20:17,961
Speaker 3: does for your children, and she does for your brother.

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00:20:18,681 --> 00:20:23,160
Speaker 3: And I didn't understand that emotion, because that, to me

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00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:27,441
Speaker 3: was normal. But yes, I did get some Christmas presents

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Speaker 3: some of the years, but my mother, she couldn't ever

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00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 3: give you anything without taking it away. And I do

315
00:20:35,281 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 3: remember getting a nice brown, furry Kala bay which I loved.

316
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,921
Speaker 3: It had a zip in the back of it, and

317
00:20:43,961 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 3: I thought, oh, brilliant. You know I've got a pajawma case.

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Speaker 3: And she made me keep the family gun in.

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Speaker 4: They the family gun. What the hell was she going

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00:20:53,801 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 4: to do with that?

321
00:20:54,961 --> 00:20:57,120
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just knew that I wasn't to

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Speaker 3: say anything, and that's where it was kept.

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Speaker 1: Did that ever come out like, has she ever threatened

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00:21:03,921 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 1: you with it or anybody? No?

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00:21:05,801 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 3: No, she didn't threaten me with it. I was just

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00:21:09,441 --> 00:21:12,761
Speaker 3: made to keep it there. You know. She did actually

327
00:21:12,801 --> 00:21:17,041
Speaker 3: threaten an ex boyfriend with it, and he sent the

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00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 3: police to me mom and Dad's house. They didn't find

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00:21:21,001 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 3: it because my mom moved it and she put it

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Speaker 3: in the bottom of her mattress. She had a slit

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00:21:26,561 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 3: in the bottom of the mattress, so when the house

332
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,561
Speaker 3: was raided, it was never found.

333
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Speaker 1: Can I ask why why your dad stayed with him

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00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 1: for so long?

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Speaker 3: I think my mother knew when she married me Dad

336
00:21:42,441 --> 00:21:48,561
Speaker 3: how gentle and kind and quite innocent my dad was actually,

337
00:21:49,001 --> 00:21:53,321
Speaker 3: and I think that she chose him she could manipulate

338
00:21:53,441 --> 00:21:55,281
Speaker 3: him as well, and she did.

339
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Speaker 1: Was it that scared of him?

340
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,961
Speaker 3: In the end, he was very scared of I yes,

341
00:22:00,921 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 3: very scared of her. And I think that he tolerated

342
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 3: the domestic violence that he tolerated from her because I

343
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 3: think she broke him down. I really believe he was

344
00:22:13,721 --> 00:22:18,241
Speaker 3: indoctrinated as well. He was twenty one when he'd met her.

345
00:22:18,521 --> 00:22:23,401
Speaker 3: He was quite a shy man, and she was brushing out,

346
00:22:23,521 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 3: going and forward and everything we d had. You know,

347
00:22:26,001 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 3: they say opposites attract. He couldn't find two people to

348
00:22:30,521 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 3: be more opposite than my mom and dad. You know,

349
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 3: my father was a poet and he was also a

350
00:22:36,721 --> 00:22:40,241
Speaker 3: plaster mind. You know, he was a big fella. And

351
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:43,561
Speaker 3: when she was cruel and nasty to him, it wasn't

352
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:49,001
Speaker 3: just narcissism. You know, she had this obsession to hurt,

353
00:22:49,481 --> 00:22:56,321
Speaker 3: and she also indoctrinated him in that era, going all

354
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 3: the way back there a man going out of the

355
00:22:59,201 --> 00:23:02,201
Speaker 3: house and going to work on the buildings with these

356
00:23:02,241 --> 00:23:07,041
Speaker 3: pals doing plaster and very very musky. He couldn't really

357
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 3: go in and say, well, my wife's pulling me here,

358
00:23:11,201 --> 00:23:14,201
Speaker 3: and younkin is off the seat today, you know, yeah,

359
00:23:14,241 --> 00:23:19,121
Speaker 3: going back. Yeah, And it sort of tolerated it. And

360
00:23:19,201 --> 00:23:25,521
Speaker 3: she would instigate arguments all day long, and you would

361
00:23:25,561 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 3: be in your bedroom like that, not wanting to hear it,

362
00:23:28,441 --> 00:23:31,001
Speaker 3: but you would know it was her. You would be

363
00:23:31,041 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 3: sitting waiting thinking, you know, is he going to snap?

364
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 3: She would provoke and provoke and push and push and push,

365
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:41,721
Speaker 3: and god knows how she got away with so much,

366
00:23:41,761 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. She was four foot and

367
00:23:43,481 --> 00:23:47,001
Speaker 3: out and he did nickname at the blonde rot wheeler.

368
00:23:47,521 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 3: She really was very, very, very tough, and we perceived

369
00:23:53,241 --> 00:23:57,521
Speaker 3: her as being tough as well as being our savior

370
00:23:57,681 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 3: when we were poorly and therefore she sat high on

371
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 3: that pedestal of our you know how we perceived her

372
00:24:06,761 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 3: as well.

373
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Speaker 1: How'd she get on with your neighbors?

374
00:24:10,041 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 5: They didn't like her, to say the least one neighbor

375
00:24:16,801 --> 00:24:20,961
Speaker 5: came to the house and said, you speak to your family,

376
00:24:21,281 --> 00:24:23,241
Speaker 5: absolutely disgusting.

377
00:24:23,721 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 3: And another neighbor said to me, father, because my father

378
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,001
Speaker 3: would sit on the stool outside in his elder years

379
00:24:31,041 --> 00:24:34,801
Speaker 3: and he would recite his poetry too pass us by.

380
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 3: And someone came up to him and said, we're having

381
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 3: a party, Brian, and you're invited. Don't bring Isabelle, you know.

382
00:24:45,961 --> 00:24:49,521
Speaker 3: And she really really was known in the village as

383
00:24:49,561 --> 00:24:54,321
Speaker 3: being quite feisty. I was actually relieved when the general

384
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,041
Speaker 3: public began seeing what we had really been living. But

385
00:24:59,521 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 3: she was always below the belt in her behavior. The

386
00:25:04,521 --> 00:25:08,801
Speaker 3: harsh of her behavior was second to none, you know.

387
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,721
Speaker 3: I mean, there was a young woman and she said

388
00:25:11,761 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: to that young woman who was struggling very badly with

389
00:25:15,001 --> 00:25:19,321
Speaker 3: her health. I hope your fucking chemo doesn't work. She

390
00:25:19,521 --> 00:25:22,561
Speaker 3: was ruthless, she had no emotion whatsoever.

391
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: What have you seen the worst that she's done to

392
00:25:24,961 --> 00:25:25,321
Speaker 1: your dad?

393
00:25:26,001 --> 00:25:28,081
Speaker 3: She was burning them with lighters?

394
00:25:29,001 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: What what?

395
00:25:30,041 --> 00:25:30,801
Speaker 4: He just let it?

396
00:25:31,721 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: No, No, he was on the telephone screaming.

397
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 4: To me and she's burning him with lighters.

398
00:25:37,761 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was just a bastard. She just really really

399
00:25:40,921 --> 00:25:44,921
Speaker 3: you know, he was older and she was burning him,

400
00:25:44,961 --> 00:25:48,281
Speaker 3: and he was screaming, Karen, Karen, she's fucking burning us.

401
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 3: I didn't see it, but I heard it, and he

402
00:25:51,281 --> 00:25:55,281
Speaker 3: was old by then. But the very worst I've seen

403
00:25:55,441 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 3: my mom do for anyone, that'll tell that children that

404
00:26:00,801 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: they're poorly when they're not and make that children ill.

405
00:26:04,761 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 3: And even she even told me father that he had

406
00:26:08,241 --> 00:26:12,481
Speaker 3: cancer and he was lying in bed he was actually

407
00:26:12,561 --> 00:26:17,761
Speaker 3: wasting away. She was deeply cruel, you know. And even

408
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 3: on another occasion, I could tell you millions of cruel

409
00:26:21,521 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 3: things my mom did. Playing with her children's minds was

410
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 3: the worst of all. And her husband's.

411
00:26:29,441 --> 00:26:33,441
Speaker 1: What's the worst physical thing she's done to you besides

412
00:26:33,481 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: beat you with a lever belt?

413
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:39,041
Speaker 3: Well, I believe me. Mom made me very poorly as

414
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,201
Speaker 3: a child, and I was on four injections a day

415
00:26:42,241 --> 00:26:45,441
Speaker 3: and they didn't know what was wrong with me. And

416
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,241
Speaker 3: later on in life, I was told by the social

417
00:26:49,321 --> 00:26:53,721
Speaker 3: services and the psychiatric nurse that my mother had Munchausen

418
00:26:53,721 --> 00:26:58,921
Speaker 3: by proxy and she was very complex, but I didn't

419
00:26:58,961 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 3: know what Munchausen by proxy was. And I realized looking back,

420
00:27:04,481 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 3: what she'd been doing to all of us, you know,

421
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,241
Speaker 3: I mean, I was very very young when she was

422
00:27:11,281 --> 00:27:14,401
Speaker 3: telling me on a daily basis that my father was

423
00:27:14,521 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 3: dying of cancer and he never had cancer in his life.

424
00:27:18,241 --> 00:27:22,001
Speaker 3: And she even convinced me brother he was dying as well.

425
00:27:22,721 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 3: And even when the police came to the house, my

426
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,281
Speaker 3: brother was in bed, and I've got it in the

427
00:27:29,321 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 3: police records, and she told the police that my brother

428
00:27:33,761 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 3: was terminally ill and he wasn't. She was very very

429
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 3: cruel mentally, physically and emotionally. You know, there was she

430
00:27:44,321 --> 00:27:47,801
Speaker 3: was a very evil person, you know. I mean, this

431
00:27:47,961 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 3: was a part from things like making us dig my

432
00:27:52,721 --> 00:27:55,801
Speaker 3: own grave. If our dive school punishment was.

433
00:27:55,961 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 4: Harsh, you dig your own grave.

434
00:27:59,201 --> 00:28:02,481
Speaker 3: I didn't dig a full deep grave, but she pushed

435
00:28:02,481 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 3: the shovel in my hand and took me into a

436
00:28:06,321 --> 00:28:09,281
Speaker 3: garden and said, you're going to dig your fucking grave.

437
00:28:09,441 --> 00:28:13,201
Speaker 3: And I had to dig. What if I didn't dig,

438
00:28:13,241 --> 00:28:16,201
Speaker 3: I would have been lashed to smithery. And so I

439
00:28:16,281 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 3: was digging. And even when my brother, my brother in

440
00:28:20,281 --> 00:28:23,841
Speaker 3: he was, oh goodness, maybe in his forties or fifties,

441
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:29,681
Speaker 3: and he had an embulism which burst. And I had

442
00:28:29,801 --> 00:28:35,041
Speaker 3: believed that my brother meant something to me mom, and

443
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 3: I didn't. That's what I'd believed all of my life.

444
00:28:39,881 --> 00:28:42,721
Speaker 3: He had this thing wrong with him. And she came

445
00:28:42,761 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: to my house and she said, your brother's on the

446
00:28:46,521 --> 00:28:50,761
Speaker 3: operating table right now, Keally in hospital in walls End,

447
00:28:51,641 --> 00:28:56,001
Speaker 3: and she said they've given him minutes to lave basically,

448
00:28:56,881 --> 00:28:59,841
Speaker 3: and I was in shock. He was still my brother.

449
00:29:00,641 --> 00:29:02,281
Speaker 3: She said, do you think I could get him in?

450
00:29:02,361 --> 00:29:06,361
Speaker 3: Shoe up? And I went, in you had? I went,

451
00:29:06,481 --> 00:29:09,721
Speaker 3: is that all you can say when your only sons

452
00:29:10,401 --> 00:29:14,641
Speaker 3: possibly going to die? And she shrugged her shoulders and

453
00:29:14,721 --> 00:29:16,481
Speaker 3: she said, well, how much did you think I could

454
00:29:16,481 --> 00:29:21,281
Speaker 3: get for his guitar? And I was mortified at the

455
00:29:21,521 --> 00:29:25,521
Speaker 3: lack of emotion from this woman, but it only got worse.

456
00:29:26,281 --> 00:29:29,361
Speaker 1: Wow, did this ever stop? When you got to a

457
00:29:29,401 --> 00:29:31,161
Speaker 1: certain age or did it carry on?

458
00:29:31,801 --> 00:29:34,681
Speaker 3: It got worse and worse and worse. My life only

459
00:29:34,721 --> 00:29:36,561
Speaker 3: began when my mother passed away.

460
00:29:37,681 --> 00:29:39,441
Speaker 4: So, okay, what age were you then?

461
00:29:40,041 --> 00:29:40,641
Speaker 3: Forty eight?

462
00:29:41,961 --> 00:29:45,681
Speaker 4: Forty eight? And it went on till that time.

463
00:29:45,761 --> 00:29:50,961
Speaker 3: Yes, it did, and she was meticulous and she we

464
00:29:50,961 --> 00:29:55,481
Speaker 3: were indoctrinated. And you've you've got to remember when you're indoctrinated,

465
00:29:56,161 --> 00:30:01,001
Speaker 3: you don't know you're indoctrinated. And it wasn't until my

466
00:30:01,161 --> 00:30:05,321
Speaker 3: mother left the earth and I was left with this

467
00:30:06,241 --> 00:30:11,641
Speaker 3: needing to find myself, I would say, because she infantilized us,

468
00:30:12,401 --> 00:30:17,521
Speaker 3: that was me and me brother, and she also had

469
00:30:18,121 --> 00:30:22,761
Speaker 3: indoctrinated us that long and appeared as our savior. And

470
00:30:22,801 --> 00:30:26,121
Speaker 3: it was a shock to the system. We'd lost our

471
00:30:26,241 --> 00:30:30,681
Speaker 3: identities because of my mother completely. We'd only ever lived

472
00:30:30,961 --> 00:30:35,401
Speaker 3: under her shadow, you know, doing what she said for

473
00:30:35,481 --> 00:30:39,801
Speaker 3: all of our lives. We were definitely psychologically imprisoned.

474
00:30:40,881 --> 00:30:42,361
Speaker 1: What age did you move out of the house?

475
00:30:42,921 --> 00:30:46,281
Speaker 3: Well, as a young girl, I would stay out if

476
00:30:46,321 --> 00:30:48,841
Speaker 3: I could, even if I had no way to stay.

477
00:30:48,881 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 3: I would sometimes sleep down the woods without the sleeping

478
00:30:52,801 --> 00:30:54,801
Speaker 3: bag and just say that I was at a friend's

479
00:30:54,841 --> 00:30:57,921
Speaker 3: house because I couldn't be being at home. I really

480
00:30:57,961 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: did try to stay with me Grandma as much as

481
00:31:01,041 --> 00:31:05,641
Speaker 3: I could as well. I left home. I was about fifteen,

482
00:31:05,721 --> 00:31:09,801
Speaker 3: and I started staying with this woman who had a child,

483
00:31:09,881 --> 00:31:13,201
Speaker 3: and I offered a babysit for some way to sleep.

484
00:31:13,401 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 3: I liked to be away from the house. And then

485
00:31:17,601 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 3: I left home at seventeen. But even when I left home,

486
00:31:21,641 --> 00:31:24,041
Speaker 3: I still couldn't get rid of me m'am. I still

487
00:31:24,041 --> 00:31:25,161
Speaker 3: couldn't break free.

488
00:31:25,241 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 6: You know.

489
00:31:25,641 --> 00:31:30,361
Speaker 3: She had this way of manipulating me as well, and

490
00:31:31,081 --> 00:31:34,161
Speaker 3: she would say things like, oh, you don't love me,

491
00:31:34,361 --> 00:31:37,721
Speaker 3: nobody loves me, or you know, making you feel guilty,

492
00:31:37,801 --> 00:31:41,681
Speaker 3: so you felt this sense of obligation towards her as well.

493
00:31:42,361 --> 00:31:44,841
Speaker 3: And she did the same with me dad and me brother.

494
00:31:44,921 --> 00:31:48,361
Speaker 3: But she would come to the house wherever I lived.

495
00:31:48,841 --> 00:31:52,601
Speaker 3: And I had one boyfriend and he used to hide

496
00:31:52,601 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: in the air in Kobad.

497
00:31:54,721 --> 00:31:57,921
Speaker 1: What the fuck really fucking diad?

498
00:31:58,081 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 3: Yes, I used to hide in the air and Kubbad

499
00:32:01,801 --> 00:32:09,561
Speaker 3: because our presence was so horrible. And then I moved

500
00:32:09,601 --> 00:32:10,481
Speaker 3: back home.

501
00:32:10,841 --> 00:32:14,041
Speaker 1: After why would you move back home for if you

502
00:32:14,041 --> 00:32:15,121
Speaker 1: know what's going to happen to you?

503
00:32:15,721 --> 00:32:17,961
Speaker 3: I had nowhere else to go, and I was at

504
00:32:18,041 --> 00:32:21,641
Speaker 3: split with this guy, and I didn't know how quick

505
00:32:21,681 --> 00:32:24,441
Speaker 3: to get out of there again. And I met someone

506
00:32:24,881 --> 00:32:28,801
Speaker 3: seventeen years my senior, and he had his own house,

507
00:32:29,481 --> 00:32:34,161
Speaker 3: which was a godsend, but it wasn't because it was

508
00:32:34,161 --> 00:32:36,281
Speaker 3: a very volatile relationship.

509
00:32:37,121 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so before we go on, how were you in

510
00:32:41,041 --> 00:32:44,801
Speaker 1: a relationship with the way your mother treated you? Was

511
00:32:44,801 --> 00:32:48,081
Speaker 1: that hard to have someone? Okay, when you first start

512
00:32:48,121 --> 00:32:51,401
Speaker 1: off in a relationship, it's very loving and caring, and

513
00:32:51,441 --> 00:32:53,401
Speaker 1: you've never had that from your mother before.

514
00:32:54,241 --> 00:32:57,481
Speaker 3: That's right. I was a people pleaser. I was very

515
00:32:57,561 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 3: vulnerable and I was subject to I was already praying

516
00:33:02,601 --> 00:33:07,521
Speaker 3: to fall into the wrong kinds of relationships. And when

517
00:33:07,561 --> 00:33:11,121
Speaker 3: I met someone and he was seventeen, yeah, my senior,

518
00:33:11,281 --> 00:33:14,921
Speaker 3: I was just relieved to be away from home. But

519
00:33:15,081 --> 00:33:19,761
Speaker 3: even he called me mother evil Lizzie. And then my

520
00:33:19,881 --> 00:33:24,561
Speaker 3: ex husband called our serial mum, and then the man

521
00:33:24,641 --> 00:33:30,081
Speaker 3: i'm married too now called missus vile. So they had

522
00:33:30,121 --> 00:33:34,201
Speaker 3: our awn summed up. But I felt, you know, when

523
00:33:34,241 --> 00:33:38,401
Speaker 3: it's your mom, you tolerate far too much as well.

524
00:33:38,441 --> 00:33:41,921
Speaker 3: And I kept try and applicate her to keep her

525
00:33:41,961 --> 00:33:44,801
Speaker 3: in a good mood. Rather than these.

526
00:33:45,481 --> 00:33:47,801
Speaker 1: But are you are you? Are you thinking you can

527
00:33:47,921 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: change it?

528
00:33:49,401 --> 00:33:53,321
Speaker 3: I thought by plicating I could get her in a

529
00:33:53,361 --> 00:33:58,441
Speaker 3: better mood. I didn't realize how serious our problems were

530
00:33:59,121 --> 00:34:01,761
Speaker 3: and that we could never change all of our lives.

531
00:34:01,801 --> 00:34:06,641
Speaker 3: Both my brother and I try to love from her,

532
00:34:07,041 --> 00:34:10,561
Speaker 3: never known that she was totally incapable. We didn't know

533
00:34:10,721 --> 00:34:15,881
Speaker 3: that then, but we did later find out that our

534
00:34:16,001 --> 00:34:20,881
Speaker 3: whole lives were wasted trying to change her, try and

535
00:34:21,001 --> 00:34:25,481
Speaker 3: duplicate her. You know, you don't ever want to think

536
00:34:25,761 --> 00:34:27,561
Speaker 3: bad of your own.

537
00:34:27,401 --> 00:34:31,001
Speaker 1: Mother, You don't want to, but she's abusing you. You know,

538
00:34:31,561 --> 00:34:34,721
Speaker 1: she's made your childhood where you want to forget it.

539
00:34:34,881 --> 00:34:37,881
Speaker 1: You've got no fond memories. Yeah, you're still trying to

540
00:34:37,921 --> 00:34:40,841
Speaker 1: be nice in a way where you're trying to see

541
00:34:40,921 --> 00:34:43,321
Speaker 1: if you can change your orn, just make her happy

542
00:34:43,441 --> 00:34:46,361
Speaker 1: or make a smile. Yet she's still abusing you.

543
00:34:46,961 --> 00:34:50,721
Speaker 3: That's right, and that's because I was broken down into

544
00:34:50,801 --> 00:34:56,001
Speaker 3: accepting that as being normal, indoctrinated very very very deeply.

545
00:34:56,641 --> 00:35:00,961
Speaker 3: But also you have to remember our mother because of

546
00:35:01,081 --> 00:35:06,761
Speaker 3: the Munchausen biproxy. She made us believe that she was

547
00:35:07,761 --> 00:35:11,721
Speaker 3: the only person that did care and a lord it's

548
00:35:11,761 --> 00:35:15,321
Speaker 3: not care. We never knew anything else.

549
00:35:16,201 --> 00:35:19,921
Speaker 1: I haven't spoken to my mother in fifteen years, probably

550
00:35:19,921 --> 00:35:23,001
Speaker 1: a bit more because not not that she abused me.

551
00:35:23,161 --> 00:35:24,881
Speaker 1: It was more the fact that she didn't approve of

552
00:35:24,881 --> 00:35:28,001
Speaker 1: what I did. She gave me an automatum, and the

553
00:35:28,081 --> 00:35:31,761
Speaker 1: ultimatum was to leave what I'm doing or I'm dead.

554
00:35:31,881 --> 00:35:33,921
Speaker 4: To her, that was what she said to me. You

555
00:35:33,961 --> 00:35:34,441
Speaker 4: are dead.

556
00:35:34,881 --> 00:35:36,881
Speaker 1: So if I left the door and I says you're never,

557
00:35:36,961 --> 00:35:38,881
Speaker 1: I'm not going to stop what I'm going to do.

558
00:35:39,601 --> 00:35:41,281
Speaker 1: And then she said, well, if you leave that door,

559
00:35:41,601 --> 00:35:44,241
Speaker 1: you're dead. You're not part of this family anymore. And

560
00:35:44,241 --> 00:35:47,201
Speaker 1: that's how it's been me. I'm very strong headed, you

561
00:35:47,201 --> 00:35:49,521
Speaker 1: know what I mean, even though it's my mother. The

562
00:35:49,601 --> 00:35:51,161
Speaker 1: end of the day, she said a lot of things,

563
00:35:51,161 --> 00:35:53,681
Speaker 1: and you just said something then that reminded me what

564
00:35:53,681 --> 00:35:56,481
Speaker 1: my mother said. And she used to say things like

565
00:35:57,201 --> 00:36:00,561
Speaker 1: I'm ill or I could die tomorrow. What are you

566
00:36:00,601 --> 00:36:03,161
Speaker 1: going to do? And I remember them things now. But

567
00:36:03,201 --> 00:36:07,841
Speaker 1: the thing is, yes used to affect me. But I

568
00:36:07,881 --> 00:36:11,361
Speaker 1: stayed strong because you know what, as I was a

569
00:36:11,361 --> 00:36:12,921
Speaker 1: bit older, I wasn't as young as you I was.

570
00:36:13,001 --> 00:36:16,481
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I'm in my thirties, but it

571
00:36:16,561 --> 00:36:20,601
Speaker 1: hurt me to say that a mother would say I'm

572
00:36:20,681 --> 00:36:23,521
Speaker 1: dead to her. And she told all my stepbrothers and

573
00:36:23,561 --> 00:36:25,601
Speaker 1: sisters that if they talked to me, they would take

574
00:36:25,641 --> 00:36:27,081
Speaker 1: it off the will you know what I mean, so

575
00:36:27,201 --> 00:36:29,641
Speaker 1: I can see in a slight way what was going

576
00:36:29,681 --> 00:36:33,681
Speaker 1: through your head. But that triggered a little thing back

577
00:36:33,961 --> 00:36:35,521
Speaker 1: to what my mum would say to me. And she

578
00:36:35,521 --> 00:36:37,761
Speaker 1: would pretend that she was ill all the time.

579
00:36:37,841 --> 00:36:41,081
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, my mom did things like that all of

580
00:36:41,201 --> 00:36:45,041
Speaker 3: the time. I think, really, what had happened with me,

581
00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:51,161
Speaker 3: brother and I why we didn't go nor contact the

582
00:36:51,241 --> 00:36:55,601
Speaker 3: same as other children would perhaps go no contact if

583
00:36:55,641 --> 00:37:04,081
Speaker 3: their parents was narcissistic, was control and is because she

584
00:37:04,281 --> 00:37:07,961
Speaker 3: instilled it to me brother from being very young that

585
00:37:08,121 --> 00:37:11,561
Speaker 3: he was going to die young. She instilled it into

586
00:37:11,761 --> 00:37:14,961
Speaker 3: us that our father had cancer and was dying, and

587
00:37:15,001 --> 00:37:19,761
Speaker 3: he didn't have cancer. She created a dependency in us,

588
00:37:20,241 --> 00:37:24,561
Speaker 3: and with us being regularly poorly and her saying on

589
00:37:24,601 --> 00:37:28,161
Speaker 3: an everyday basis, you know, come here, let me look

590
00:37:28,201 --> 00:37:30,881
Speaker 3: in your eyes. I can tell if you've got a tumor.

591
00:37:31,401 --> 00:37:33,441
Speaker 3: I can tell if you're going to die.

592
00:37:33,881 --> 00:37:36,681
Speaker 1: And she made you think, She made you and your brother,

593
00:37:36,721 --> 00:37:37,561
Speaker 1: think that you needed it.

594
00:37:38,281 --> 00:37:43,361
Speaker 3: Yes, she did massively. And she also when we developed

595
00:37:43,561 --> 00:37:48,521
Speaker 3: any strength or confidence in any way, shape or form,

596
00:37:49,001 --> 00:37:53,681
Speaker 3: she destroyed us and made us poorly again so that

597
00:37:53,761 --> 00:37:56,241
Speaker 3: we would need us. So we never got the ability

598
00:37:56,281 --> 00:38:02,041
Speaker 3: to grow the same as other children grow, the strength

599
00:38:02,281 --> 00:38:05,841
Speaker 3: to go no contact. To do that, you have to

600
00:38:05,881 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 3: have an element of strength about you. She broke us down,

601
00:38:09,521 --> 00:38:12,321
Speaker 3: and broke us down, and broke us down. She continually

602
00:38:12,921 --> 00:38:16,841
Speaker 3: told us how worthless we were, how useless we were,

603
00:38:17,521 --> 00:38:20,801
Speaker 3: how we couldn't do this or that or the other

604
00:38:20,921 --> 00:38:23,241
Speaker 3: without her. And she did the same to me dad

605
00:38:23,281 --> 00:38:23,801
Speaker 3: as well.

606
00:38:24,241 --> 00:38:26,801
Speaker 1: You know when you moved out, did she get more

607
00:38:26,801 --> 00:38:27,881
Speaker 1: abusive to your brother?

608
00:38:28,881 --> 00:38:34,001
Speaker 3: My brother left home when I was thirteen, and so

609
00:38:34,281 --> 00:38:39,281
Speaker 3: I was the one left with her. But when I

610
00:38:39,441 --> 00:38:43,961
Speaker 3: moved out, she would act nice and keep try to

611
00:38:44,041 --> 00:38:47,681
Speaker 3: keep in, and then she would break the relationship of

612
00:38:47,801 --> 00:38:53,041
Speaker 3: friendship somehow and wangle away in. You know, even me husband,

613
00:38:53,441 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 3: me children's father. She hid underway in the Marritle Home

614
00:38:58,601 --> 00:39:04,481
Speaker 3: bedroom and convinced me he was having an affair.

615
00:39:05,521 --> 00:39:06,921
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

616
00:39:07,161 --> 00:39:11,481
Speaker 3: You know, she fucking stopped at nothing to control us

617
00:39:11,521 --> 00:39:17,641
Speaker 3: to the nth degree. And of course, what do you

618
00:39:17,721 --> 00:39:22,201
Speaker 3: do when your mom's telling you that your partner's having

619
00:39:22,321 --> 00:39:25,281
Speaker 3: en affee and that she'll keep an eye on him,

620
00:39:25,321 --> 00:39:29,681
Speaker 3: and she's on your side, and you feel who do

621
00:39:29,761 --> 00:39:32,201
Speaker 3: you trust the most in the world, or who should

622
00:39:32,321 --> 00:39:35,081
Speaker 3: you be able to trust the most in the world.

623
00:39:35,161 --> 00:39:37,521
Speaker 3: You know, when a'm PUELI I didn't think, oh this

624
00:39:37,721 --> 00:39:40,641
Speaker 3: is me, mom. I thought, I'm ill. Thank God I've

625
00:39:40,681 --> 00:39:43,601
Speaker 3: got me Ma'm you know to look after us.

626
00:39:44,401 --> 00:39:46,201
Speaker 1: What made your mom happy?

627
00:39:46,481 --> 00:39:50,401
Speaker 3: Nothing? She was never happy. She couldn't be happy. She

628
00:39:50,761 --> 00:39:56,201
Speaker 3: couldn't feel the emotion of happiness. She couldn't feel even

629
00:39:56,201 --> 00:39:59,401
Speaker 3: when she was dying of advanced cancer. She couldn't feel pain,

630
00:40:00,161 --> 00:40:04,921
Speaker 3: she couldn't feel emotion, and she couldn't be anyone else

631
00:40:05,161 --> 00:40:08,601
Speaker 3: being happy. Even the neighbor in the street was once

632
00:40:08,841 --> 00:40:15,041
Speaker 3: given our children, her children like that tea and me.

633
00:40:15,161 --> 00:40:18,241
Speaker 3: Mom had gone to the door and she told me,

634
00:40:18,361 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 3: she said, ehr en, I've had to turn your mom

635
00:40:21,561 --> 00:40:24,441
Speaker 3: away because I was given the lads that tea, you know,

636
00:40:25,121 --> 00:40:28,801
Speaker 3: And she says, your mother, unless she got all of

637
00:40:28,841 --> 00:40:33,681
Speaker 3: her own way, she turned really nasty. And of course

638
00:40:33,721 --> 00:40:36,241
Speaker 3: this lady didn't want me mammy, and she was feeding

639
00:40:36,241 --> 00:40:39,561
Speaker 3: her children that tea and she said me, Mom walked

640
00:40:39,641 --> 00:40:43,921
Speaker 3: past the window and shouted happy fucking families. And then

641
00:40:44,001 --> 00:40:47,321
Speaker 3: the next morning she said, you'll never guess what I've

642
00:40:47,361 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 3: caught your mother doing now, And I said, what fok's sake?

643
00:40:51,681 --> 00:40:56,081
Speaker 3: What now? I was embarrassed by my mom's behavior. You know,

644
00:40:56,961 --> 00:40:59,361
Speaker 3: she says, I've caught a brush and glass under the

645
00:40:59,881 --> 00:41:03,121
Speaker 3: court aias and that woman was about to leave to

646
00:41:03,201 --> 00:41:09,321
Speaker 3: take her children to school. My mother would hurt no

647
00:41:09,321 --> 00:41:12,681
Speaker 3: matter what. And I know this sounds awful, but I

648
00:41:12,721 --> 00:41:16,521
Speaker 3: don't wish that on the lady, that anything would happen,

649
00:41:16,721 --> 00:41:19,521
Speaker 3: and that my ma'am would do that. But it was

650
00:41:19,561 --> 00:41:23,641
Speaker 3: a relief that my ma'am was showing this kind of bizarre,

651
00:41:24,081 --> 00:41:29,241
Speaker 3: crul nasty behavior to other people that they were saying

652
00:41:29,241 --> 00:41:31,401
Speaker 3: in and it wasn't just coming from me, you know,

653
00:41:31,521 --> 00:41:35,441
Speaker 3: because I felt when I was speaking out on occasions

654
00:41:35,481 --> 00:41:39,761
Speaker 3: as like what what Like when I'd gone to school

655
00:41:39,841 --> 00:41:42,041
Speaker 3: and I told a friend, you know me, mom fucking

656
00:41:42,121 --> 00:41:44,281
Speaker 3: dragged us in the garden and told us to dig

657
00:41:44,401 --> 00:41:48,441
Speaker 3: me grave. It was like what, you know, like it

658
00:41:48,561 --> 00:41:52,241
Speaker 3: was very frightening. I mean, actually pissed myself when she

659
00:41:52,361 --> 00:41:55,121
Speaker 3: told us to dig me grave. I was very frightened.

660
00:41:56,001 --> 00:41:58,561
Speaker 3: And to be very afraid of your own mother like that,

661
00:41:59,841 --> 00:42:04,481
Speaker 3: you don't tend to fight back when you can't, and

662
00:42:04,521 --> 00:42:08,961
Speaker 3: you broke them from that age, you know. And me husband,

663
00:42:09,081 --> 00:42:11,641
Speaker 3: I'm with now, he said, you know, when he saw

664
00:42:11,681 --> 00:42:14,201
Speaker 3: the state of me by the time i'd met him,

665
00:42:14,601 --> 00:42:17,321
Speaker 3: I don't know how I've survived it. But he said,

666
00:42:17,361 --> 00:42:20,281
Speaker 3: you wouldn't let anyone else in the street treat you

667
00:42:20,441 --> 00:42:24,801
Speaker 3: like that, So why let your mother? And another friend

668
00:42:24,841 --> 00:42:28,041
Speaker 3: of mine said, you know, I mean, because, believe it

669
00:42:28,161 --> 00:42:33,081
Speaker 3: or not. Me mother was very religious, and she would

670
00:42:33,161 --> 00:42:35,601
Speaker 3: go into church and come out of church, and I

671
00:42:35,641 --> 00:42:38,721
Speaker 3: would say to her, when you confess, you know, and

672
00:42:38,761 --> 00:42:41,441
Speaker 3: you ask for forgiveness. I was just a child and

673
00:42:41,481 --> 00:42:44,521
Speaker 3: I had said to her, you're supposed to mean it,

674
00:42:44,601 --> 00:42:49,241
Speaker 3: you know. And she wasn't very suited when I'd said that.

675
00:42:50,241 --> 00:42:53,801
Speaker 3: But she would often say to me, if I had

676
00:42:54,081 --> 00:42:59,161
Speaker 3: any opinion, honor thy mother. I said this to a

677
00:42:59,281 --> 00:43:03,281
Speaker 3: friend and he said, only if thy mother is honorable.

678
00:43:04,281 --> 00:43:08,881
Speaker 3: And were trying to get us to overcome what had

679
00:43:08,921 --> 00:43:14,521
Speaker 3: been done to us, but I was deeply indoctrinated.

680
00:43:15,641 --> 00:43:16,761
Speaker 1: You still you still are.

681
00:43:17,841 --> 00:43:21,761
Speaker 3: I'm still recovering I'm still healing from from what I've lived.

682
00:43:22,721 --> 00:43:25,161
Speaker 1: You know, when you went to bed, did you ever

683
00:43:25,401 --> 00:43:26,761
Speaker 1: think that you're never going to wake up?

684
00:43:27,681 --> 00:43:32,081
Speaker 3: Yes. I can remember lying on the setting in my

685
00:43:32,161 --> 00:43:36,361
Speaker 3: mom's house and I was actually being sick, and I'd

686
00:43:36,441 --> 00:43:40,361
Speaker 3: been very poorly for a long long time. And my

687
00:43:40,441 --> 00:43:43,241
Speaker 3: mom's friend came in and he sat on the chair

688
00:43:43,401 --> 00:43:47,561
Speaker 3: next to the window, and my mother said, and I

689
00:43:47,681 --> 00:43:52,081
Speaker 3: was very, very very small as a child, I was

690
00:43:52,161 --> 00:43:56,521
Speaker 3: known as little Karen. She leaned over me and she said,

691
00:43:56,681 --> 00:44:01,441
Speaker 3: I wish you would hurry up and fucking die. That hurt.

692
00:44:01,801 --> 00:44:08,801
Speaker 3: That hurt immensely. And a friend and he said, Isabelle,

693
00:44:08,921 --> 00:44:13,281
Speaker 3: don't say that to the ben. My mom had no boundaries,

694
00:44:13,281 --> 00:44:17,401
Speaker 3: and people got used to her being cruel and callous

695
00:44:17,401 --> 00:44:19,881
Speaker 3: and coming out with things that nobody else would come

696
00:44:19,881 --> 00:44:23,041
Speaker 3: out with. But I can remember pulling me blanket, going

697
00:44:23,121 --> 00:44:27,281
Speaker 3: up the stairs, getting into her bed, and she had

698
00:44:27,321 --> 00:44:32,081
Speaker 3: an electric blanket, and I remember praying to God to

699
00:44:32,281 --> 00:44:36,801
Speaker 3: either take me life or make me better. And at

700
00:44:36,801 --> 00:44:43,241
Speaker 3: that point I wasn't bothered, which one a child should

701
00:44:43,321 --> 00:44:46,681
Speaker 3: never feel. And I did feel regularly because of my

702
00:44:46,841 --> 00:44:52,361
Speaker 3: mom's behavior. I did regularly feel that I just wished

703
00:44:52,401 --> 00:44:57,121
Speaker 3: I'd never been born. I was frightened to die. I

704
00:44:57,161 --> 00:44:59,441
Speaker 3: was afraid of death. I had the fear of death

705
00:44:59,481 --> 00:45:03,281
Speaker 3: instilled into me. But I did often wish that i'd

706
00:45:03,321 --> 00:45:06,521
Speaker 3: never been born. And I look back now and I

707
00:45:06,601 --> 00:45:12,161
Speaker 3: realized I had what today's society would call childhood depression

708
00:45:13,641 --> 00:45:16,681
Speaker 3: because of my mom's behavior. But I didn't know it

709
00:45:16,721 --> 00:45:20,721
Speaker 3: was that. I just knew how I felt in my

710
00:45:21,001 --> 00:45:24,361
Speaker 3: home life, and I think that was one of the

711
00:45:24,401 --> 00:45:29,001
Speaker 3: reasons I wanted to speak out and write me books.

712
00:45:29,081 --> 00:45:32,001
Speaker 3: And I think I made a promise to me dad

713
00:45:32,041 --> 00:45:36,001
Speaker 3: that I would tell our story. And I call it

714
00:45:36,161 --> 00:45:42,721
Speaker 3: our story because I recognized the pattern of behavior of

715
00:45:42,761 --> 00:45:46,561
Speaker 3: what my mom had been doing to me. And when

716
00:45:46,601 --> 00:45:50,121
Speaker 3: I met the man I'm married to now, she wasn't

717
00:45:50,161 --> 00:45:53,881
Speaker 3: able to get to me so much. I was twigging

718
00:45:53,961 --> 00:46:00,961
Speaker 3: onto these things that will occurring gradually, gradually, gradually unfolding.

719
00:46:01,881 --> 00:46:06,841
Speaker 3: That's when she really homed in on my dad and

720
00:46:06,961 --> 00:46:10,601
Speaker 3: the cruelty towards me. Father and I promised them that

721
00:46:10,801 --> 00:46:13,761
Speaker 3: he would never be forgotten either because he was brain

722
00:46:13,881 --> 00:46:19,401
Speaker 3: injured so he couldn't tell people what had happened. But

723
00:46:19,601 --> 00:46:24,001
Speaker 3: he came to my house six months before he was

724
00:46:24,041 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: found brain injured, and he said to me, Karen, I'm

725
00:46:28,001 --> 00:46:31,801
Speaker 3: frightened for me life. I don't know what your mother's

726
00:46:31,841 --> 00:46:36,321
Speaker 3: got planned for me, but I'm frightened. And he said,

727
00:46:37,081 --> 00:46:40,841
Speaker 3: every time the social services come to the house, she's

728
00:46:40,961 --> 00:46:43,721
Speaker 3: telling them that I'm going to commit suicide, and I'm not.

729
00:46:44,401 --> 00:46:48,961
Speaker 3: He says, I'm frightened. Six months later, my dad was

730
00:46:49,001 --> 00:46:54,641
Speaker 3: found brain injured for life, and I became his voice,

731
00:46:55,121 --> 00:46:58,761
Speaker 3: and I kept me promised. I've written the book, and

732
00:46:58,801 --> 00:47:03,081
Speaker 3: it's been very, very deeply hard to tell our story

733
00:47:03,161 --> 00:47:08,921
Speaker 3: because I was still indoctrinated, and I knew that I

734
00:47:09,001 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 3: had to because I thought I'll not be the only

735
00:47:11,641 --> 00:47:18,081
Speaker 3: person that's had suffered horrendous parental abuse, and having a

736
00:47:18,201 --> 00:47:24,081
Speaker 3: narcissistic parent is bad enough. But I also knew that

737
00:47:24,161 --> 00:47:29,321
Speaker 3: my mother was very severely mentally ill, but she was psychopathic,

738
00:47:30,121 --> 00:47:34,481
Speaker 3: and I had to tell our story in memory of

739
00:47:34,601 --> 00:47:38,961
Speaker 3: my whole family. Really, I couldn't fit it all into

740
00:47:39,041 --> 00:47:40,921
Speaker 3: one book. I did me best to put what I

741
00:47:40,961 --> 00:47:44,201
Speaker 3: could into one book. I could have filled for at

742
00:47:44,201 --> 00:47:48,441
Speaker 3: the very least, because there's a lot that I haven't

743
00:47:48,481 --> 00:47:52,841
Speaker 3: put in yet. There's also things that are too painful

744
00:47:52,921 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 3: yet to speak about. It's very it's very hard my dad.

745
00:48:00,121 --> 00:48:04,241
Speaker 3: My dad was He was a poet, and my mother

746
00:48:04,321 --> 00:48:08,521
Speaker 3: could rip anything to pieces and before that could put

747
00:48:08,561 --> 00:48:13,841
Speaker 3: it all back together again. They were complete opposites. And

748
00:48:14,841 --> 00:48:18,041
Speaker 3: I don't know why he stayed. I really think that

749
00:48:18,161 --> 00:48:22,041
Speaker 3: he stayed for me and me brother, and I think

750
00:48:22,081 --> 00:48:26,681
Speaker 3: he knew in his heart of hearts, if he ever left,

751
00:48:27,561 --> 00:48:30,721
Speaker 3: he would never see us again in his life, because

752
00:48:31,121 --> 00:48:36,161
Speaker 3: without a shadow of a doubt, she would have manipulated

753
00:48:36,441 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 3: the situation where he felt tortured for even I wish

754
00:48:41,521 --> 00:48:44,161
Speaker 3: he had left, and I wish he'd taken me with him.

755
00:48:45,001 --> 00:48:47,561
Speaker 3: That would have been an ideal situation.

756
00:48:48,441 --> 00:48:51,641
Speaker 1: What was your mum's reaction when you had your first child.

757
00:48:51,921 --> 00:48:59,321
Speaker 3: And the twins? And she said she looked at me, Dad,

758
00:48:59,361 --> 00:49:03,881
Speaker 3: and she said our babies, And I thought, fuck, you know,

759
00:49:04,281 --> 00:49:07,521
Speaker 3: and one of them had a problem with his heart?

760
00:49:08,281 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: Was she loving towards them?

761
00:49:10,721 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 3: She was possessive. She wanted to appear like this love

762
00:49:16,481 --> 00:49:20,121
Speaker 3: and care and grandma. But there was a lot of

763
00:49:20,241 --> 00:49:24,561
Speaker 3: things that weren't right. And I couldn't let my sons

764
00:49:24,761 --> 00:49:30,441
Speaker 3: go to her house without me present because my sons

765
00:49:30,601 --> 00:49:35,761
Speaker 3: would never ever accept even the shouting was enough, would

766
00:49:35,761 --> 00:49:38,401
Speaker 3: be enough. You know, I made a difference with my

767
00:49:38,521 --> 00:49:39,481
Speaker 3: own children.

768
00:49:40,481 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: Were you scared to let them go over to the house?

769
00:49:43,761 --> 00:49:47,281
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, definitely. I wouldn't let my children be among

770
00:49:47,321 --> 00:49:52,601
Speaker 3: that kind of violence. If she she would sometimes come

771
00:49:52,641 --> 00:49:55,681
Speaker 3: to the hospital with me with me son, but you

772
00:49:55,721 --> 00:49:59,281
Speaker 3: would go for attention for herself. She was happy, Yes,

773
00:49:59,321 --> 00:50:02,401
Speaker 3: when I told her that my son might have needed

774
00:50:02,401 --> 00:50:06,481
Speaker 3: a heart operation, she went oh, And I looked and

775
00:50:06,561 --> 00:50:11,521
Speaker 3: went brilliant, what's brilliant about that? But it was attention

776
00:50:11,801 --> 00:50:16,041
Speaker 3: for her, you see. She needed attention no matter what,

777
00:50:16,521 --> 00:50:21,281
Speaker 3: and that need was obsessive. She would do things. You know.

778
00:50:21,641 --> 00:50:25,681
Speaker 3: I used to shrink with some of the behavior.

779
00:50:25,801 --> 00:50:28,001
Speaker 1: You know, I've read.

780
00:50:28,201 --> 00:50:29,761
Speaker 4: Part of the book that you wrote.

781
00:50:30,481 --> 00:50:34,001
Speaker 1: You say that two hundred and thirty seven times the

782
00:50:34,041 --> 00:50:36,721
Speaker 1: police came over to your house in eighteen months.

783
00:50:37,081 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 4: Yes, was that just for your mother?

784
00:50:40,761 --> 00:50:44,801
Speaker 3: It was because of what was going on in the

785
00:50:44,881 --> 00:50:49,561
Speaker 3: family home. What was going on. They was all down

786
00:50:49,681 --> 00:50:54,081
Speaker 3: to my mother's need for attention and how abusive she

787
00:50:54,281 --> 00:50:57,721
Speaker 3: was with me brother. My brother was still there. He

788
00:50:58,001 --> 00:51:03,801
Speaker 3: had became an alcoholic, and he was very, very damaged

789
00:51:03,921 --> 00:51:08,321
Speaker 3: by this time and totally dependent on her, and of

790
00:51:08,361 --> 00:51:12,601
Speaker 3: course being an addict, he was even more dependent. And

791
00:51:13,321 --> 00:51:18,561
Speaker 3: she'd controlled his life so much that he didn't develop

792
00:51:18,681 --> 00:51:22,561
Speaker 3: the ability to develop a life of his own. He

793
00:51:22,721 --> 00:51:25,721
Speaker 3: was tied to her, you know. She thought, with him

794
00:51:25,761 --> 00:51:30,401
Speaker 3: being clever musically, that he was going to bring her

795
00:51:31,041 --> 00:51:35,961
Speaker 3: fame and fortune. He even had a song, he co

796
00:51:36,161 --> 00:51:39,841
Speaker 3: wrote a song which was entered in the Eurovision Song Contest.

797
00:51:41,361 --> 00:51:46,681
Speaker 3: She even made them write out a document which said

798
00:51:47,281 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 3: his Emmy award belonged to her.

799
00:51:51,721 --> 00:51:52,121
Speaker 5: Mm hmm.

800
00:51:53,121 --> 00:51:56,041
Speaker 3: You know how a parent does things to help their

801
00:51:56,121 --> 00:52:01,281
Speaker 3: children for their own benefit. We were utilized. Everything was

802
00:52:01,361 --> 00:52:06,281
Speaker 3: for her, and everything was about her to other people

803
00:52:06,361 --> 00:52:08,721
Speaker 3: outside of the home. You know, it was like, e,

804
00:52:08,921 --> 00:52:12,161
Speaker 3: this poor lady, she has a son who's an alcoholic,

805
00:52:12,641 --> 00:52:15,761
Speaker 3: who's doing this, that and the other. But people didn't

806
00:52:15,841 --> 00:52:19,801
Speaker 3: see what she was doing indoors, you know, like she

807
00:52:20,041 --> 00:52:24,601
Speaker 3: was drip feeding him. He's whiskey. She was going and

808
00:52:24,641 --> 00:52:29,161
Speaker 3: buying the whiskey. Forum she was keeping them they and

809
00:52:29,201 --> 00:52:33,281
Speaker 3: she wouldn't let him escape or leave or but she

810
00:52:33,441 --> 00:52:37,801
Speaker 3: was instigating arguments between him and my dad all of

811
00:52:37,881 --> 00:52:41,601
Speaker 3: the time and saying to him, your father has never

812
00:52:41,761 --> 00:52:46,881
Speaker 3: loved you, and ye're useless and all the mental putdowns

813
00:52:46,921 --> 00:52:51,401
Speaker 3: as well. The police were going to the house initially

814
00:52:51,521 --> 00:52:56,481
Speaker 3: believing that they were going because of me brothers behavior,

815
00:52:57,121 --> 00:53:01,241
Speaker 3: with him being an alcoholic, with his tendencies to erupt,

816
00:53:01,401 --> 00:53:06,721
Speaker 3: you know. And of course they were happy, but it

817
00:53:06,841 --> 00:53:09,881
Speaker 3: was all behind the scenes where me ma'am was causing

818
00:53:09,921 --> 00:53:13,321
Speaker 3: all the arguments in the family home on purpose to

819
00:53:13,361 --> 00:53:16,441
Speaker 3: get attention. She even believed the kopp has fancied her.

820
00:53:17,881 --> 00:53:23,561
Speaker 3: She did, honestly, and she was causing all of this trouble.

821
00:53:23,961 --> 00:53:29,601
Speaker 3: But eventually they did get onto her. They realized when

822
00:53:30,041 --> 00:53:33,441
Speaker 3: they were going to the house how many times she

823
00:53:33,641 --> 00:53:37,721
Speaker 3: was saying that beforether was dying of cancer and me

824
00:53:37,881 --> 00:53:42,481
Speaker 3: brother was terminally ill. I mean, she even knocked somebody

825
00:53:42,521 --> 00:53:45,481
Speaker 3: off their bike, and she went into court and told

826
00:53:45,521 --> 00:53:49,081
Speaker 3: the judge that my father was dying of cancer then

827
00:53:49,201 --> 00:53:51,881
Speaker 3: as well, you know, And it was all this seeking

828
00:53:52,001 --> 00:53:55,681
Speaker 3: sympathy for ourselves. There was a lot to look at.

829
00:53:56,401 --> 00:53:58,561
Speaker 3: But when you're used to it and it's all you've

830
00:53:58,601 --> 00:54:03,161
Speaker 3: heard all of your life, you don't realize, you know,

831
00:54:03,401 --> 00:54:06,601
Speaker 3: you realize, but it becomes you know, it's like being

832
00:54:06,601 --> 00:54:08,441
Speaker 3: in a cult. That's correct.

833
00:54:08,721 --> 00:54:11,361
Speaker 1: And this might sound a bit harsh. But were were

834
00:54:11,361 --> 00:54:12,721
Speaker 1: you going to leave when she passed away?

835
00:54:13,401 --> 00:54:19,081
Speaker 3: Yes, it was grief and relief. It was grief to

836
00:54:19,281 --> 00:54:23,041
Speaker 3: know that I would never have the mother I wanted.

837
00:54:23,841 --> 00:54:27,921
Speaker 3: It was grief for the life she'd stolen from me,

838
00:54:28,681 --> 00:54:31,481
Speaker 3: and it was relief that I was never going to

839
00:54:31,521 --> 00:54:34,521
Speaker 3: be treat like that ever again. And that's when my

840
00:54:34,681 --> 00:54:35,361
Speaker 3: life began.

841
00:54:36,081 --> 00:54:39,921
Speaker 1: And that was a forty eight Yes, do you miss it?

842
00:54:41,441 --> 00:54:48,841
Speaker 3: No, I miss having a mom. I missed my father terribly.

843
00:54:50,081 --> 00:54:53,321
Speaker 3: My brother I feel very sad that he turned out

844
00:54:53,361 --> 00:54:56,161
Speaker 3: to be like me mom in a lot of ways,

845
00:54:56,281 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 3: became her mirror image. I feel sad for what he

846
00:55:00,481 --> 00:55:05,521
Speaker 3: did as well, and how manipulated he was and how

847
00:55:05,561 --> 00:55:10,681
Speaker 3: he became. But I knew he regretted everything my mom

848
00:55:10,761 --> 00:55:11,281
Speaker 3: never did.

849
00:55:12,441 --> 00:55:15,361
Speaker 1: If you could turn back time now, what would you

850
00:55:15,401 --> 00:55:15,961
Speaker 1: do differently?

851
00:55:17,801 --> 00:55:21,121
Speaker 3: I would leave home as young as I possibly could.

852
00:55:21,641 --> 00:55:24,801
Speaker 3: I would I mean, in hindsight, I would have kept

853
00:55:24,881 --> 00:55:29,041
Speaker 3: speaking out and kept speaking out and kept speaking out

854
00:55:29,561 --> 00:55:34,761
Speaker 3: regardless of the punishment. I would have done that till

855
00:55:34,961 --> 00:55:38,681
Speaker 3: somebody did listen. But really I would have left home

856
00:55:38,921 --> 00:55:41,921
Speaker 3: as young as I could and never go back ever.

857
00:55:43,601 --> 00:55:45,121
Speaker 1: Is that your biggest regret you think.

858
00:55:45,641 --> 00:55:50,561
Speaker 3: Yes, because it stole me whole life, you know, it's

859
00:55:50,721 --> 00:55:53,681
Speaker 3: I mean, I was forty eight when she died, and

860
00:55:53,721 --> 00:55:59,081
Speaker 3: it's taken as yeays to recover, and even just before

861
00:55:59,161 --> 00:56:04,241
Speaker 3: releasing the book, I was still processing and still you know,

862
00:56:04,441 --> 00:56:07,041
Speaker 3: it takes a lot to speak out. It takes a

863
00:56:07,081 --> 00:56:12,201
Speaker 3: lot to break the trauma bond between a child and

864
00:56:12,241 --> 00:56:16,521
Speaker 3: its parent. That's a massive thing. It lives with you forever,

865
00:56:16,641 --> 00:56:21,841
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, I miss some of the times

866
00:56:21,961 --> 00:56:26,641
Speaker 3: that I thought were nice. I just wish that my

867
00:56:26,721 --> 00:56:31,961
Speaker 3: mom wasn't like that. I don't miss me mom, No,

868
00:56:32,081 --> 00:56:34,201
Speaker 3: I don't. It's the only life I've ever had.

869
00:56:35,201 --> 00:56:40,041
Speaker 6: It's like it's like my mother's still alive, as I said,

870
00:56:40,481 --> 00:56:45,041
Speaker 6: But I don't miss it because even though I know

871
00:56:45,961 --> 00:56:49,281
Speaker 6: there probably was some good times with it, I cannot

872
00:56:49,281 --> 00:56:50,001
Speaker 6: remember them.

873
00:56:50,721 --> 00:56:54,761
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel very, very very much like that. You know,

874
00:56:55,161 --> 00:56:59,921
Speaker 3: she was so possessive and we weren't allowed to develop

875
00:57:00,401 --> 00:57:03,801
Speaker 3: as people, you know, grow up. Really, we weren't allowed

876
00:57:03,841 --> 00:57:08,481
Speaker 3: to grow up infanted, not even have opinions, you know.

877
00:57:08,921 --> 00:57:13,961
Speaker 3: And I don't know. I don't miss her either, I

878
00:57:13,081 --> 00:57:16,561
Speaker 3: really Even the other day, it was a nice, hot

879
00:57:16,641 --> 00:57:20,481
Speaker 3: sunny day and someone said, what you're doing, and you

880
00:57:20,561 --> 00:57:23,721
Speaker 3: know what, I wasn't doing anything, but I was really

881
00:57:23,801 --> 00:57:30,161
Speaker 3: happy because I cherish every day now, even just to

882
00:57:30,441 --> 00:57:39,041
Speaker 3: not have that treatment makes every day happy. I'm grateful

883
00:57:39,121 --> 00:57:45,201
Speaker 3: to be alive. This woman nearly took my life, you know.

884
00:57:45,361 --> 00:57:49,721
Speaker 3: My counselor even said, you know, some people never recover,

885
00:57:49,961 --> 00:57:54,441
Speaker 3: some people are never able to process it, you know.

886
00:57:54,641 --> 00:57:57,081
Speaker 3: I mean. I saw my brother a month before we

887
00:57:57,241 --> 00:58:01,641
Speaker 3: passed away. He admitted to me that he tried to

888
00:58:01,761 --> 00:58:07,681
Speaker 3: murder my mom and dad for what they did to us. Really, yes,

889
00:58:08,761 --> 00:58:09,201
Speaker 3: and I.

890
00:58:09,241 --> 00:58:12,121
Speaker 1: Always knew that, But why the dad.

891
00:58:12,361 --> 00:58:13,681
Speaker 4: I thought your dad was okay.

892
00:58:14,321 --> 00:58:18,081
Speaker 3: My dad was okay, And I had this chat with

893
00:58:18,121 --> 00:58:21,721
Speaker 3: me brother at the time as well when he said this.

894
00:58:22,641 --> 00:58:28,161
Speaker 3: I never really understood why this had happened with my dad.

895
00:58:28,721 --> 00:58:32,881
Speaker 3: But I know that me mother. My brother died believe

896
00:58:32,961 --> 00:58:37,481
Speaker 3: in his father had never loved him, and that came

897
00:58:37,681 --> 00:58:42,401
Speaker 3: from my mother. That hatred that was built up inside

898
00:58:42,401 --> 00:58:48,041
Speaker 3: of my brother came from my mother. She ruined all

899
00:58:48,121 --> 00:58:53,521
Speaker 3: of our lives because my father did love his sons

900
00:58:53,721 --> 00:58:56,761
Speaker 3: and he loved me as well. He loved us both,

901
00:58:57,361 --> 00:59:00,441
Speaker 3: and my mother drove a wedge between all of us.

902
00:59:01,281 --> 00:59:03,761
Speaker 1: Yeah, because It's funny you say that because when you

903
00:59:03,801 --> 00:59:07,241
Speaker 1: said that he wanted the kid his dad to me,

904
00:59:07,721 --> 00:59:10,281
Speaker 1: I looked at that in a way where he feels

905
00:59:10,321 --> 00:59:13,601
Speaker 1: hatred to his dad, because he to me that looking

906
00:59:13,641 --> 00:59:16,681
Speaker 1: in now, is that an outsider? Why didn't you help?

907
00:59:17,681 --> 00:59:20,761
Speaker 3: Maybe that was how he felt. You know, I do

908
00:59:20,921 --> 00:59:24,881
Speaker 3: believe there was a lot lot more to it, and

909
00:59:25,961 --> 00:59:31,601
Speaker 3: he really, I know he felt this hatred. But when

910
00:59:31,841 --> 00:59:36,561
Speaker 3: before all of that happened, he never showed hate towards

911
00:59:36,601 --> 00:59:41,441
Speaker 3: me father, unless he was instigated by me mother. And

912
00:59:41,641 --> 00:59:44,201
Speaker 3: when I'd seen him, he had said when I first

913
00:59:44,281 --> 00:59:48,081
Speaker 3: seen him, he was next to tears, and I'd never

914
00:59:48,121 --> 00:59:51,881
Speaker 3: seen him for ten years, and he said, I killed

915
00:59:51,921 --> 00:59:55,361
Speaker 3: me best friend. And I just looked at him and

916
00:59:55,441 --> 01:00:00,001
Speaker 3: I could see he was very, very very upset. I said,

917
01:00:00,081 --> 01:00:04,161
Speaker 3: my dad did love you, and he went, no, he didn't,

918
01:00:04,721 --> 01:00:08,681
Speaker 3: but he did, you know. And my mother had created

919
01:00:08,881 --> 01:00:15,761
Speaker 3: that belief in her own son's mind, and that was

920
01:00:15,881 --> 01:00:22,241
Speaker 3: really hurtful, you know, really painful. And then the following

921
01:00:22,361 --> 01:00:26,081
Speaker 3: day my brother said, didams, did I kill your daddy?

922
01:00:26,881 --> 01:00:31,201
Speaker 3: As if he was only my daddy? And that was

923
01:00:31,241 --> 01:00:34,801
Speaker 3: the resentment that my mother had created in our family

924
01:00:34,881 --> 01:00:40,081
Speaker 3: home from us being very very young children, and that

925
01:00:40,281 --> 01:00:45,081
Speaker 3: was her jealousy of how much our father loved me.

926
01:00:45,601 --> 01:00:48,601
Speaker 3: She wasn't allowed to. All the love and affection and

927
01:00:48,641 --> 01:00:53,761
Speaker 3: attention had to go to her and her alone. That

928
01:00:54,001 --> 01:00:57,921
Speaker 3: was part of how she was. We weren't allowed to

929
01:00:58,001 --> 01:01:01,201
Speaker 3: love other people, even our own father.

930
01:01:02,361 --> 01:01:03,921
Speaker 4: Do you wish you d had done moment?

931
01:01:04,841 --> 01:01:08,641
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I do. I wish that my father had

932
01:01:08,721 --> 01:01:12,281
Speaker 3: been able to see through our earlier. But he did

933
01:01:12,401 --> 01:01:16,241
Speaker 3: sit on his bed as an adult, in his elder yeas,

934
01:01:17,081 --> 01:01:20,681
Speaker 3: and he was crying his eyes out and he said, Karen,

935
01:01:21,681 --> 01:01:26,281
Speaker 3: yh mother's mentally ill. And this was all down to

936
01:01:26,601 --> 01:01:32,361
Speaker 3: this horrible behavior and this cruelty and these and these

937
01:01:32,681 --> 01:01:36,081
Speaker 3: outbursts that we'd all lived with all of our lives.

938
01:01:37,161 --> 01:01:41,521
Speaker 3: And I said, father, my mom's being mentally ill all

939
01:01:41,641 --> 01:01:45,761
Speaker 3: of me life. But I knew he was able to

940
01:01:45,961 --> 01:01:49,521
Speaker 3: see it when it was happening to him better than

941
01:01:49,561 --> 01:01:51,481
Speaker 3: he could see it when it was happening to us.

942
01:01:52,041 --> 01:01:56,921
Speaker 3: And I put that down to our inability to speak it,

943
01:01:57,801 --> 01:02:05,401
Speaker 3: see it, being silenced and being afraid and her You

944
01:02:05,521 --> 01:02:10,561
Speaker 3: have to remember she was a psychopath and her ability

945
01:02:11,041 --> 01:02:17,401
Speaker 3: to convince people, and include now our own father you know,

946
01:02:19,081 --> 01:02:24,561
Speaker 3: a psychopath will never appear as a nasty person. You know,

947
01:02:24,681 --> 01:02:27,641
Speaker 3: it's not until you find out what on earth you

948
01:02:27,761 --> 01:02:31,361
Speaker 3: know when you recognize and you go wow. And I

949
01:02:31,441 --> 01:02:35,321
Speaker 3: mean I was told by the psychiatrists after they did

950
01:02:35,401 --> 01:02:40,641
Speaker 3: a brain scan that my mother's brain was scored exactly

951
01:02:40,881 --> 01:02:44,841
Speaker 3: in the same place as a psychopath's brain is scored.

952
01:02:46,681 --> 01:02:51,961
Speaker 3: My mom was a psychopath. Yes, she was a subject

953
01:02:52,081 --> 01:02:52,881
Speaker 3: to be studied.

954
01:02:53,841 --> 01:03:00,321
Speaker 4: I cannot get over your story. Character is insane and

955
01:03:00,481 --> 01:03:05,841
Speaker 4: to go on for forty eight years is yes, it is.

956
01:03:06,201 --> 01:03:10,641
Speaker 3: And you know, I remember lots of times in hindsight

957
01:03:10,761 --> 01:03:17,961
Speaker 3: where I think, oh, why did I not understand this earlier?

958
01:03:18,921 --> 01:03:23,161
Speaker 3: But you have to remember, this woman broke us down,

959
01:03:23,441 --> 01:03:29,001
Speaker 3: and she she gas lit us constantly to the degree

960
01:03:29,721 --> 01:03:35,441
Speaker 3: we lost all faith in ourselves and our own opinions.

961
01:03:37,041 --> 01:03:40,241
Speaker 1: I'm glad you came on my podcast. Thank you, glad

962
01:03:40,921 --> 01:03:43,801
Speaker 1: Now you're very welcome, and I'm glad that you've shared

963
01:03:43,801 --> 01:03:50,841
Speaker 1: your story because it is insane, like like to for

964
01:03:51,001 --> 01:03:54,161
Speaker 1: me to ask you in forty eight years, tell me

965
01:03:54,721 --> 01:03:57,641
Speaker 1: something that you can remember that you enjoyed, and you

966
01:03:57,761 --> 01:04:01,561
Speaker 1: cannot even remember anything. That's that's so sad.

967
01:04:02,201 --> 01:04:06,201
Speaker 3: It took me a long time because I was left

968
01:04:06,321 --> 01:04:10,881
Speaker 3: with complex PTSD and I couldn't even get my own

969
01:04:11,001 --> 01:04:15,241
Speaker 3: breathing pattern right. For a lot of years, I sat

970
01:04:15,321 --> 01:04:20,081
Speaker 3: in my bedroom and it took a lot, a lot

971
01:04:20,201 --> 01:04:25,241
Speaker 3: of determination to recover to the degree. You know, I

972
01:04:25,361 --> 01:04:31,041
Speaker 3: was agrophobic for many years as well, and I really

973
01:04:31,201 --> 01:04:37,041
Speaker 3: have had to push myself to recover. And I would

974
01:04:37,121 --> 01:04:40,041
Speaker 3: say to anyone out there, if I can recover from this,

975
01:04:40,361 --> 01:04:44,241
Speaker 3: you can too, you know. And thank you very very

976
01:04:44,361 --> 01:04:47,241
Speaker 3: much for having us on your show. I feel honored

977
01:04:48,161 --> 01:04:50,441
Speaker 3: to have came on your show. Thank you, Thank you

978
01:04:50,601 --> 01:04:54,761
Speaker 3: for giving me your voice. And I recite you a

979
01:04:54,881 --> 01:04:57,841
Speaker 3: quick poem written by my dad, go for it.

980
01:04:57,961 --> 01:04:58,321
Speaker 1: Go for it.

981
01:04:58,961 --> 01:05:02,081
Speaker 3: My dad was a very feeling man, and I really

982
01:05:02,201 --> 01:05:06,721
Speaker 3: believe that a part of him also tried to be

983
01:05:07,121 --> 01:05:12,001
Speaker 3: caring towards our mother because of her behaviors as well,

984
01:05:12,161 --> 01:05:16,001
Speaker 3: too careen, you know, and I suppose I am too,

985
01:05:16,681 --> 01:05:19,921
Speaker 3: and I do believe that happens with empaths as well.

986
01:05:20,121 --> 01:05:26,081
Speaker 3: Sometimes we get taken for granted and we are quite vulnerable.

987
01:05:26,161 --> 01:05:28,601
Speaker 3: When we care deeply, you know, we can put us

988
01:05:28,641 --> 01:05:32,721
Speaker 3: in a vulnerable position. And obviously that did happen to

989
01:05:32,801 --> 01:05:36,441
Speaker 3: me on numerous occasions. My dad had observed a young

990
01:05:36,561 --> 01:05:40,601
Speaker 3: disabled child who was admiring a daffodil, and we all

991
01:05:40,721 --> 01:05:44,681
Speaker 3: see beauty in all different things. And he'd written this

992
01:05:44,881 --> 01:05:50,361
Speaker 3: poem for a young child, and it's called Daffodil. I

993
01:05:50,561 --> 01:05:54,001
Speaker 3: have waited this long spring to see once more the

994
01:05:54,121 --> 01:05:59,641
Speaker 3: yellow king in crown above green sabers thrust triumphant through

995
01:05:59,761 --> 01:06:04,681
Speaker 3: the wanton crust, oblivious to wind and rain, challenging the

996
01:06:04,761 --> 01:06:08,161
Speaker 3: sun to shine. It's pleasant, so of our sweet mouth

997
01:06:08,241 --> 01:06:12,241
Speaker 3: stocks still hid beneath midwinterry rock. A flower stood in

998
01:06:12,361 --> 01:06:17,681
Speaker 3: proud appeal. Who answers to this vast and reel and

999
01:06:17,841 --> 01:06:23,881
Speaker 3: stirs emotions into trills for those who speak to Daffodil's

1000
01:06:26,721 --> 01:06:30,201
Speaker 3: thank you. And my dad was Brian Teesdale Senior. I'd

1001
01:06:30,201 --> 01:06:34,481
Speaker 3: written poetry from being eight years old. I've told our

1002
01:06:34,681 --> 01:06:40,681
Speaker 3: story Poison Kisses by Current Teesdale, and I hope that

1003
01:06:40,961 --> 01:06:44,121
Speaker 3: my story helps other people thrive