1
00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281
Speaker 1: Approche production.

2
00:00:16,001 --> 00:00:19,640
Speaker 2: Welcome Back to the Missing Matter. In today's episode, Sally

3
00:00:19,721 --> 00:00:23,281
Speaker 2: sits down with someone she now calls a friend, a

4
00:00:23,281 --> 00:00:28,521
Speaker 2: woman she describes as relentless, compassionate, and quietly powerful in

5
00:00:28,561 --> 00:00:33,641
Speaker 2: the missing and unsolved space. Her name is Mindy, and

6
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,361
Speaker 2: she spent years supporting families navigating the unimaginable, often doing

7
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,161
Speaker 2: the work behind the scenes that most people never see.

8
00:00:42,721 --> 00:00:46,441
Speaker 2: This conversation explores how Sally and Mindy first connected, the

9
00:00:46,521 --> 00:00:49,920
Speaker 2: role Mindy played in supporting the Dear Rochelle journey, and

10
00:00:49,961 --> 00:00:52,561
Speaker 2: what it was like watching a case unfold in real

11
00:00:52,641 --> 00:01:03,161
Speaker 2: time under intense media attention. But there's also Mindy's own story.

12
00:01:03,601 --> 00:01:06,681
Speaker 2: When one of her close friends went missing, she launched

13
00:01:06,681 --> 00:01:11,401
Speaker 2: into action, uncovering sightings within hours while authorities struggle to

14
00:01:11,481 --> 00:01:15,481
Speaker 2: keep the pace. Today's episode is a powerful look at

15
00:01:15,521 --> 00:01:21,080
Speaker 2: the urgency, frustration, and reality's family's face when someone disappears,

16
00:01:21,761 --> 00:01:26,121
Speaker 2: and the determination it takes to bring them home. This

17
00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:27,121
Speaker 2: is the Missing Matter.

18
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,440
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Missing Matter, everybody today. I have

19
00:01:33,721 --> 00:01:37,200
Speaker 1: invited someone actually who I refer to as a friend nowadays,

20
00:01:37,241 --> 00:01:41,640
Speaker 1: but she is a remarkable human being. She's looking at me.

21
00:01:42,801 --> 00:01:44,601
Speaker 1: I don't have to say that, but I am going

22
00:01:44,681 --> 00:01:48,441
Speaker 1: to say it because I think she's awesome and she's

23
00:01:48,441 --> 00:01:53,281
Speaker 1: found herself in a couple of situations where she's just

24
00:01:53,521 --> 00:01:56,801
Speaker 1: risen to the occasion and she's actually done some amazing things.

25
00:01:57,481 --> 00:02:00,361
Speaker 1: So I've asked her to join me in a conversation

26
00:02:00,561 --> 00:02:04,761
Speaker 1: today about two elements of a lot of what she's

27
00:02:04,801 --> 00:02:09,201
Speaker 1: been very busy in the space of missing and murdered

28
00:02:09,241 --> 00:02:12,601
Speaker 1: also over the last couple of years. And her name

29
00:02:12,681 --> 00:02:14,321
Speaker 1: is Mindy. Thanks for coming on.

30
00:02:14,561 --> 00:02:16,561
Speaker 3: Hi Sam, Thanks for having me.

31
00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,280
Speaker 1: We're going to have a chat today, but let's sort

32
00:02:19,281 --> 00:02:23,201
Speaker 1: of talk about how we actually became friends and what's

33
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,881
Speaker 1: happening in our space. So I remember you first reached

34
00:02:26,881 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 1: out to me quite a while ago, and I was

35
00:02:29,561 --> 00:02:31,800
Speaker 1: trying to think about when this was, but you said,

36
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,921
Speaker 1: can we have a chat? Funnily enough, I don't even

37
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,721
Speaker 1: know how you got my phone number, probably because I

38
00:02:35,761 --> 00:02:37,441
Speaker 1: have it on Facebook or something crazy like that.

39
00:02:37,721 --> 00:02:44,121
Speaker 4: I think that just come down to my search skills. Well,

40
00:02:44,161 --> 00:02:47,401
Speaker 4: I hope so put it nicely. Yeah, I did surprise

41
00:02:47,441 --> 00:02:49,881
Speaker 4: attack you with, Hey, this is who I am.

42
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,081
Speaker 3: I need your help.

43
00:02:51,361 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 4: On top of everything that you're already doing. Could you

44
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,161
Speaker 4: please stop that for a moment and help me. Yeah,

45
00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,681
Speaker 4: I am known to do that. Look, the worst thing

46
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 4: you could have said was no, I'm too busy, and

47
00:03:01,321 --> 00:03:02,481
Speaker 4: I would have been no better off.

48
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:08,481
Speaker 3: But you are a and you just jumped on board.

49
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,801
Speaker 4: And I guess you actually started our journey on Shell's

50
00:03:13,001 --> 00:03:16,121
Speaker 4: not really on Shell's case, but getting the Facebook.

51
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 3: Page up and running.

52
00:03:17,441 --> 00:03:22,121
Speaker 4: And I think you were definitely the start of me

53
00:03:23,041 --> 00:03:25,121
Speaker 4: thinking we might be able to do the same with

54
00:03:25,201 --> 00:03:25,881
Speaker 4: Shell's case.

55
00:03:26,201 --> 00:03:28,921
Speaker 1: And was that because you were listening to the lady Vanishans, Yes,

56
00:03:29,761 --> 00:03:31,641
Speaker 1: and so you reached out to me. I remember it

57
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,681
Speaker 1: as clear as day. I was sitting out on the

58
00:03:33,721 --> 00:03:36,361
Speaker 1: deck with Chris actually and I just said to him,

59
00:03:36,361 --> 00:03:38,001
Speaker 1: this lady is just asked if she can ring me

60
00:03:38,081 --> 00:03:41,201
Speaker 1: for about Is that okay? And at this point it

61
00:03:41,241 --> 00:03:43,441
Speaker 1: was that sort of situation where I had all these

62
00:03:43,481 --> 00:03:46,041
Speaker 1: people that I didn't know ringing me, asking me questions

63
00:03:46,241 --> 00:03:48,601
Speaker 1: what's happening? And I said, well, you know what, I'm

64
00:03:48,641 --> 00:03:52,201
Speaker 1: just going to help anybody I can, really, because I

65
00:03:52,441 --> 00:03:54,961
Speaker 1: for a very long time felt lonely, I guess in

66
00:03:55,001 --> 00:03:57,401
Speaker 1: that space and I didn't have anyone to talk to,

67
00:03:57,561 --> 00:04:00,281
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what I was doing. Actually, I

68
00:04:00,361 --> 00:04:04,121
Speaker 1: was just fumbling my way through, so anybody I can help,

69
00:04:04,161 --> 00:04:07,761
Speaker 1: I was very happy. So for people listening who don't

70
00:04:07,801 --> 00:04:11,201
Speaker 1: know who MINDI is, Mindy is actually very good friends

71
00:04:11,361 --> 00:04:17,001
Speaker 1: with Christy, and CHRISTI is Rochelle's sister, and Rachelle Child's

72
00:04:17,921 --> 00:04:23,200
Speaker 1: is sadly deceased and she died in two thousand and one.

73
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,561
Speaker 1: She was found in GIRoA. And if you don't know

74
00:04:27,601 --> 00:04:31,320
Speaker 1: where GIRoA is, Jiroa sits on the south coast of

75
00:04:31,361 --> 00:04:34,001
Speaker 1: New South Wales, probably a ten to twelve minute drive

76
00:04:34,041 --> 00:04:37,960
Speaker 1: from Cayama. Most people know Cayama. I grew up in Geringong,

77
00:04:38,561 --> 00:04:41,881
Speaker 1: so where I grew up in Jeringong is less than

78
00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,121
Speaker 1: three kilometers where Rochelle's body was found. I instantly just

79
00:04:46,161 --> 00:04:48,241
Speaker 1: felt a connection and I just wanted to help as

80
00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,321
Speaker 1: much as I can. And someone actually helped me set

81
00:04:51,401 --> 00:04:53,681
Speaker 1: up a Facebook page for mum back in twenty thirteen.

82
00:04:53,921 --> 00:04:55,721
Speaker 1: It was a friend of mine from high school at

83
00:04:55,721 --> 00:04:59,200
Speaker 1: schl Haven High, actually Kelly. She said to me, hey,

84
00:04:59,241 --> 00:05:01,241
Speaker 1: can I help you set up a Facebook page for

85
00:05:01,281 --> 00:05:03,601
Speaker 1: your mum? And I said, absolutely you can, because I

86
00:05:03,641 --> 00:05:05,801
Speaker 1: am really bad at that stuff, So if you could

87
00:05:05,801 --> 00:05:08,961
Speaker 1: help me, that would be amazing and just learning things

88
00:05:09,001 --> 00:05:12,041
Speaker 1: along the way. We've got to protect ourselves a lot

89
00:05:12,121 --> 00:05:17,161
Speaker 1: in these circumstances too, where we can't have people commenting

90
00:05:17,201 --> 00:05:20,681
Speaker 1: and making just brash comments on a Facebook page because

91
00:05:20,921 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 1: the people who are running that page are liable for

92
00:05:24,001 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 1: defamation and all sorts of crazy. So I think we

93
00:05:27,681 --> 00:05:31,041
Speaker 1: had a chat about setting it up, putting provisions in place,

94
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,640
Speaker 1: putting certain words blocks on those words, so people couldn't

95
00:05:35,681 --> 00:05:39,961
Speaker 1: talk about murder, people couldn't say people's names, and that

96
00:05:40,121 --> 00:05:43,561
Speaker 1: just gives us some sort of protection, and sadly Facebook

97
00:05:43,601 --> 00:05:46,121
Speaker 1: don't offer that protection. It's just a platform for us

98
00:05:46,161 --> 00:05:49,081
Speaker 1: to be able to help share an awareness of what

99
00:05:49,121 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 1: we're trying to push out there into the universe and

100
00:05:52,001 --> 00:05:55,481
Speaker 1: find information about. I am really happy to say that

101
00:05:56,201 --> 00:06:00,201
Speaker 1: the Dear Rochelle podcast became a juggernaut just like the

102
00:06:00,281 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 1: Lady Vanishers and took off in crazy ways. So let's

103
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,001
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that and how that Facebook

104
00:06:09,001 --> 00:06:11,841
Speaker 1: page got you guys with the ball rolling a little bit.

105
00:06:12,401 --> 00:06:17,161
Speaker 4: Christy and I really had no clue what the best

106
00:06:17,481 --> 00:06:20,961
Speaker 4: options were with creating a page or a group or

107
00:06:21,601 --> 00:06:24,601
Speaker 4: how we should or could go about that, which is

108
00:06:24,601 --> 00:06:28,241
Speaker 4: why I reached out to. Initially, Christy and I were

109
00:06:28,281 --> 00:06:31,361
Speaker 4: friends for a very long time before we even spoke

110
00:06:31,401 --> 00:06:35,481
Speaker 4: about Shell. I remember when I first met Christy through

111
00:06:35,521 --> 00:06:40,801
Speaker 4: my husband, he told me about Shell and just said, look,

112
00:06:40,801 --> 00:06:41,721
Speaker 4: it's off limits.

113
00:06:42,001 --> 00:06:43,001
Speaker 3: We don't talk about it.

114
00:06:43,721 --> 00:06:47,880
Speaker 4: If Christie talks about it, then less is best, so

115
00:06:48,041 --> 00:06:51,041
Speaker 4: to say. I think part of his reasoning was he

116
00:06:51,161 --> 00:06:56,161
Speaker 4: knows that I am a self proclaimed crime junkie and

117
00:06:56,201 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 4: he didn't want me to go into stalk Comindi mode,

118
00:07:00,921 --> 00:07:04,281
Speaker 4: which is what my family and friends affectionately call me.

119
00:07:05,201 --> 00:07:06,401
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very slow.

120
00:07:06,521 --> 00:07:09,641
Speaker 4: It was at least four or five years before we

121
00:07:09,761 --> 00:07:15,921
Speaker 4: even touched on Shell's case. At that point, I'd introduced

122
00:07:15,921 --> 00:07:20,521
Speaker 4: her to the Teacher's Pet and the Lady Vanishers, just

123
00:07:20,561 --> 00:07:24,201
Speaker 4: sort of subtle, hey have you heard these podcasts? They're amazing.

124
00:07:24,881 --> 00:07:27,921
Speaker 4: And then from there, you know, slowly, slowly, we started

125
00:07:27,961 --> 00:07:32,201
Speaker 4: talking about Scholl's case and the possibility of maybe we

126
00:07:32,201 --> 00:07:33,081
Speaker 4: should look at doing this.

127
00:07:33,521 --> 00:07:34,281
Speaker 3: What do you think?

128
00:07:34,681 --> 00:07:38,641
Speaker 4: And I think just one day Christy said, let's do it.

129
00:07:38,881 --> 00:07:43,001
Speaker 4: Let's create a Facebook page, let's start talking about it.

130
00:07:43,161 --> 00:07:47,041
Speaker 4: With less than a month after creating the Facebook page,

131
00:07:47,281 --> 00:07:51,881
Speaker 4: Ashley Hanson reached out via direct message to Christy just

132
00:07:52,001 --> 00:07:54,561
Speaker 4: asking her she'd be open to a podcast. I think

133
00:07:54,561 --> 00:07:58,121
Speaker 4: it's that in Christie's inbox for it a month and

134
00:07:58,281 --> 00:07:59,281
Speaker 4: actually it's like, oh my.

135
00:07:59,241 --> 00:08:02,201
Speaker 3: God, she's ghosting me. She doesn't want to talk to me. Well, no,

136
00:08:02,521 --> 00:08:03,601
Speaker 3: Christy just didn't see it.

137
00:08:04,161 --> 00:08:07,841
Speaker 4: So she reached out again via Shell's page. And then

138
00:08:08,361 --> 00:08:10,961
Speaker 4: Christy called me and said, I've been approached by a

139
00:08:11,001 --> 00:08:12,201
Speaker 4: freelance journalist.

140
00:08:13,241 --> 00:08:18,041
Speaker 3: And my instant response was what's her name? Full name?

141
00:08:18,321 --> 00:08:22,441
Speaker 3: Where she worked? And Christie's like, why, I'm going to

142
00:08:22,441 --> 00:08:25,081
Speaker 3: go look at her right see what I can find.

143
00:08:26,001 --> 00:08:30,241
Speaker 4: So full stalk mode went into searching everything that we

144
00:08:30,321 --> 00:08:35,161
Speaker 4: could on poor Ash, and ultimately Christian Nan made the

145
00:08:35,201 --> 00:08:39,601
Speaker 4: decision yep, let's do it, and it all happened really

146
00:08:39,641 --> 00:08:40,441
Speaker 4: fast from there.

147
00:08:41,321 --> 00:08:43,441
Speaker 1: It kind of was in real time a little bit too,

148
00:08:43,601 --> 00:08:46,281
Speaker 1: wasn't it, Because you guys were finding things and people

149
00:08:46,281 --> 00:08:50,241
Speaker 1: were coming forward, and I mean I was an avid listener.

150
00:08:50,281 --> 00:08:52,761
Speaker 1: I was pushing it on my pages as well. You know,

151
00:08:52,801 --> 00:08:55,361
Speaker 1: we need to share this story and get the awareness

152
00:08:55,361 --> 00:08:58,921
Speaker 1: happening as best we could. So I was writing along

153
00:08:58,921 --> 00:09:02,241
Speaker 1: with you guys very very much, hoping that this would

154
00:09:02,241 --> 00:09:06,481
Speaker 1: push forward, and just amazed what a podcast can do.

155
00:09:06,921 --> 00:09:11,921
Speaker 1: And it was really interesting for me to watch Ash

156
00:09:11,961 --> 00:09:16,801
Speaker 1: and how she handled all of the situations, particularly with Christy,

157
00:09:17,121 --> 00:09:21,401
Speaker 1: and the friendships that she was creating, and the sensitivity

158
00:09:21,441 --> 00:09:25,281
Speaker 1: that I saw her showing through that. And obviously, you

159
00:09:25,321 --> 00:09:27,481
Speaker 1: guys get launched. And I know you were sitting in

160
00:09:27,521 --> 00:09:31,321
Speaker 1: the background, and I know Shell's not your family, she's

161
00:09:31,441 --> 00:09:33,761
Speaker 1: Christie's family, but you've come in there. You've been a

162
00:09:33,801 --> 00:09:37,721
Speaker 1: massive support for Christy and for her mum and family,

163
00:09:37,761 --> 00:09:39,561
Speaker 1: and I just want to take my hat off to you,

164
00:09:39,641 --> 00:09:42,601
Speaker 1: because it does take a lot. I remember talking to

165
00:09:42,641 --> 00:09:45,921
Speaker 1: you and you were just rattling off to me. I

166
00:09:45,961 --> 00:09:50,441
Speaker 1: was like, oh my goodness, she's unreal, Like this is amazing,

167
00:09:50,521 --> 00:09:53,241
Speaker 1: and I instantly thought you'd just remind me of Joonie.

168
00:09:53,441 --> 00:09:56,281
Speaker 1: And then, funnily enough, you came to our live show

169
00:09:56,321 --> 00:09:59,161
Speaker 1: that Joanie and I had in Sydney, and I remember

170
00:09:59,241 --> 00:10:02,081
Speaker 1: meeting you there. You're only a little pint. You're like,

171
00:10:02,121 --> 00:10:05,121
Speaker 1: what are you for? Four foot eleven for eleven and

172
00:10:05,281 --> 00:10:08,921
Speaker 1: a half and your husband was there and I remember

173
00:10:08,921 --> 00:10:11,001
Speaker 1: you coming up and I introduced you to Jonie and

174
00:10:11,041 --> 00:10:13,481
Speaker 1: you go, oh my god, I'm having a fangirl moment

175
00:10:14,201 --> 00:10:16,561
Speaker 1: and I just want to be just like Joonie and

176
00:10:16,761 --> 00:10:19,281
Speaker 1: you know, do what she's doing for you. And I

177
00:10:19,481 --> 00:10:22,361
Speaker 1: just was like, Wow, that's amazing, and it's so good

178
00:10:22,441 --> 00:10:25,601
Speaker 1: to have people like you in our space because you're

179
00:10:25,641 --> 00:10:29,281
Speaker 1: just passionate, you're energetic, you're helpful, just doing what you

180
00:10:29,321 --> 00:10:31,961
Speaker 1: can to actually make a difference. And I know we're

181
00:10:31,961 --> 00:10:35,001
Speaker 1: not going to talk about Rachelle's case today, but I

182
00:10:35,001 --> 00:10:37,761
Speaker 1: would push everybody if you haven't heard about Dear Rochelle.

183
00:10:38,361 --> 00:10:41,601
Speaker 1: It is a podcast talking about Rachelle's journey and what

184
00:10:41,721 --> 00:10:45,281
Speaker 1: happened to her and her life. She was so young

185
00:10:45,321 --> 00:10:50,401
Speaker 1: when she passed away in horrendous circumstances, and the podcast

186
00:10:50,481 --> 00:10:53,761
Speaker 1: team even Damien Loon jumped in as well, like he

187
00:10:53,841 --> 00:10:56,921
Speaker 1: was involved, and he was involved with the teacher's pet

188
00:10:56,961 --> 00:11:00,001
Speaker 1: with Headley Thomas as well, and like you, I don't

189
00:11:00,041 --> 00:11:03,521
Speaker 1: ever want to sit there and be negative about the police.

190
00:11:03,561 --> 00:11:07,321
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for me it hasn't been a super duper positive

191
00:11:07,361 --> 00:11:11,241
Speaker 1: experience with my own mum's case, and people making assumptions

192
00:11:11,281 --> 00:11:14,561
Speaker 1: and pushing things to the side, thinking that they've done

193
00:11:14,721 --> 00:11:18,721
Speaker 1: enough when there's no resolution or no answers for people

194
00:11:18,801 --> 00:11:21,081
Speaker 1: left behind. That's sort of where it muddies the water

195
00:11:21,161 --> 00:11:23,281
Speaker 1: a lot for the people who have left to sort

196
00:11:23,321 --> 00:11:26,081
Speaker 1: of find out the truth as to what's happened. We

197
00:11:26,161 --> 00:11:29,601
Speaker 1: need to sort of push the envelope and try and

198
00:11:29,641 --> 00:11:31,641
Speaker 1: make change and make a point of difference, and whether

199
00:11:31,681 --> 00:11:36,481
Speaker 1: that be creating elements within the police force or different

200
00:11:36,521 --> 00:11:39,401
Speaker 1: agencies outside of that that can help with managing these

201
00:11:39,441 --> 00:11:42,321
Speaker 1: sorts of things where they can continue to do their

202
00:11:42,401 --> 00:11:45,841
Speaker 1: daily jobs instead of having to do their daily jobs

203
00:11:45,881 --> 00:11:48,681
Speaker 1: plus plus plus that's where they do drop the ball,

204
00:11:48,881 --> 00:11:51,121
Speaker 1: And that's a fair thing to say, but that's problematic.

205
00:11:51,161 --> 00:11:53,841
Speaker 1: It needs to be fixed and something that we hope

206
00:11:53,961 --> 00:11:56,601
Speaker 1: by doing these podcasts and bringing awareness to the cases

207
00:11:56,641 --> 00:11:59,041
Speaker 1: not only to solve them, but to also bring awareness

208
00:11:59,081 --> 00:12:03,801
Speaker 1: to how families are left to cope with those words

209
00:12:03,801 --> 00:12:06,041
Speaker 1: of choice. Body matters, right.

210
00:12:06,561 --> 00:12:10,281
Speaker 4: I think one of the most frustrating things for me

211
00:12:10,441 --> 00:12:17,241
Speaker 4: personally coming into the missing unsolved space as an outsider

212
00:12:18,001 --> 00:12:26,921
Speaker 4: was realizing how little input family's friends, those closest to

213
00:12:27,921 --> 00:12:32,561
Speaker 4: the missing or murdered person, they don't have input.

214
00:12:33,401 --> 00:12:37,081
Speaker 1: Yeah, and instead of putting so much onus on privacy

215
00:12:37,321 --> 00:12:41,041
Speaker 1: and not sharing information, like every time I'm talking to

216
00:12:41,081 --> 00:12:44,201
Speaker 1: somebody on a podcast, I actually was just talking to

217
00:12:44,361 --> 00:12:48,081
Speaker 1: Jeannette Hayden this morning, just did a checking call to

218
00:12:48,121 --> 00:12:50,801
Speaker 1: make sure she was okay. She was my last episode

219
00:12:51,081 --> 00:12:54,401
Speaker 1: just before Christmas last year when we were planning on

220
00:12:54,481 --> 00:12:56,561
Speaker 1: having her in this season. But I just said to her,

221
00:12:56,601 --> 00:12:58,201
Speaker 1: and I said to Jay, we really need to try

222
00:12:58,201 --> 00:13:00,881
Speaker 1: and get this out as soon as possible because he's

223
00:13:00,921 --> 00:13:03,481
Speaker 1: been missing since, you know, only the middle of last year,

224
00:13:04,121 --> 00:13:07,001
Speaker 1: and we need to make awareness of this case. And

225
00:13:07,001 --> 00:13:08,561
Speaker 1: one of the things that she said to me was

226
00:13:08,561 --> 00:13:11,401
Speaker 1: that the police wouldn't show her any CCTV footage that

227
00:13:11,441 --> 00:13:13,961
Speaker 1: they had people saying, oh, we think we've seen him.

228
00:13:14,241 --> 00:13:16,441
Speaker 1: They look at the CCTV footage and they make a

229
00:13:16,481 --> 00:13:19,881
Speaker 1: decision as to whether that's Scott or not. And I

230
00:13:19,921 --> 00:13:24,281
Speaker 1: think just little basic care and concern for a family

231
00:13:24,321 --> 00:13:27,321
Speaker 1: member to let them see it, because what happens now

232
00:13:27,401 --> 00:13:29,801
Speaker 1: is those people are left going that could have been him,

233
00:13:29,841 --> 00:13:32,081
Speaker 1: and I don't know because I didn't see it correct

234
00:13:32,121 --> 00:13:34,841
Speaker 1: and I wasn't able to say whether it was or not.

235
00:13:34,921 --> 00:13:38,761
Speaker 1: They're looking at a still photograph of what we've presented

236
00:13:38,761 --> 00:13:41,801
Speaker 1: to the police is what he identifies as, but that

237
00:13:41,841 --> 00:13:45,921
Speaker 1: doesn't show his movements, his hand movements, his walk and

238
00:13:45,961 --> 00:13:48,361
Speaker 1: I think Jene even said, oh, you know, he walks

239
00:13:48,361 --> 00:13:49,881
Speaker 1: a certain way, or we would have been able to

240
00:13:49,881 --> 00:13:51,921
Speaker 1: pick it up if it was because it was someone

241
00:13:51,961 --> 00:13:54,881
Speaker 1: I think walking away from the camera. So just tiny,

242
00:13:54,921 --> 00:13:57,561
Speaker 1: tiny little things like that we need to talk about

243
00:13:57,601 --> 00:14:01,601
Speaker 1: on an open platform and hopefully somebody can hear this,

244
00:14:01,721 --> 00:14:04,881
Speaker 1: and somebody can in the right departments, can actually try

245
00:14:04,881 --> 00:14:08,361
Speaker 1: and bring this attention to some of these smaller things

246
00:14:08,401 --> 00:14:11,321
Speaker 1: in these spaces that will help potentially make a difference

247
00:14:11,441 --> 00:14:13,441
Speaker 1: to those of us who are sort of dredging our

248
00:14:13,481 --> 00:14:16,121
Speaker 1: way through the martyr. As we spoke before.

249
00:14:16,681 --> 00:14:22,081
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you've got police looking at footage who don't

250
00:14:22,401 --> 00:14:25,881
Speaker 4: know the person that they're looking for, So they could

251
00:14:25,881 --> 00:14:28,761
Speaker 4: look at a piece of footage and go, yeah, that

252
00:14:28,881 --> 00:14:31,321
Speaker 4: kind of looks like them, or oh no, it doesn't

253
00:14:31,401 --> 00:14:32,401
Speaker 4: really look like them.

254
00:14:32,801 --> 00:14:34,121
Speaker 3: But you show that to the family.

255
00:14:34,801 --> 00:14:38,881
Speaker 4: We know how our people walk, how they know the

256
00:14:38,921 --> 00:14:43,681
Speaker 4: little idiosyncrasis they do things. You know, I've got I'm

257
00:14:43,881 --> 00:14:48,641
Speaker 4: very predictable, like I do things methodically. While that might

258
00:14:48,681 --> 00:14:51,001
Speaker 4: not stick out to a police officer who has no

259
00:14:51,081 --> 00:14:53,921
Speaker 4: clue who I am, you show that to my family

260
00:14:54,521 --> 00:14:56,841
Speaker 4: and they will go, oh my god, that is mindy

261
00:14:57,241 --> 00:14:59,601
Speaker 4: or there is no way in how that is Mindy.

262
00:15:00,081 --> 00:15:03,881
Speaker 3: So that frustrated me. I can only.

263
00:15:05,041 --> 00:15:09,681
Speaker 4: Imagine how hard it is for actual families, not just

264
00:15:09,761 --> 00:15:12,401
Speaker 4: friends and families, because.

265
00:15:12,081 --> 00:15:14,161
Speaker 3: It is infuriating to me.

266
00:15:14,961 --> 00:15:18,441
Speaker 4: It makes no sense if you have a family member

267
00:15:18,641 --> 00:15:22,041
Speaker 4: saying this is out of character, this is not normal

268
00:15:22,201 --> 00:15:28,401
Speaker 4: for my mum, brother, friend, husband, whatever. It should be

269
00:15:28,521 --> 00:15:31,401
Speaker 4: taken into account more than it is at the moment.

270
00:15:32,001 --> 00:15:35,441
Speaker 4: They really need to listen to the families, even just

271
00:15:36,081 --> 00:15:39,121
Speaker 4: little things like if my car was.

272
00:15:39,081 --> 00:15:42,961
Speaker 3: Found completely clean, my husband would one hundred percent know

273
00:15:43,081 --> 00:15:44,441
Speaker 3: that that was not me driving my car.

274
00:15:46,841 --> 00:15:48,561
Speaker 1: How many episodes did you end up doing?

275
00:15:49,441 --> 00:15:50,961
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I can't even remember.

276
00:15:51,241 --> 00:15:53,761
Speaker 4: It was supposed to be eight, then it went to ten,

277
00:15:53,881 --> 00:15:55,961
Speaker 4: then twelve, then fourteen.

278
00:15:55,601 --> 00:15:59,081
Speaker 1: Quite a few. I saw Christy did an interview with

279
00:15:59,161 --> 00:16:01,761
Speaker 1: Gary Jubilan. I think I store Gary maybe only a

280
00:16:01,761 --> 00:16:04,201
Speaker 1: couple of months after she did as well. And it

281
00:16:04,241 --> 00:16:06,921
Speaker 1: gets the ball roll and it gets people talking and

282
00:16:06,961 --> 00:16:09,881
Speaker 1: people are thinking outside the square. But we'll let people

283
00:16:09,881 --> 00:16:12,121
Speaker 1: go and have a listen just so if they haven't

284
00:16:12,161 --> 00:16:14,681
Speaker 1: heard it before, they can jump on. And I think

285
00:16:14,721 --> 00:16:17,521
Speaker 1: it's important to hear the story and the journey because

286
00:16:17,921 --> 00:16:20,121
Speaker 1: behind it is a sister and a mum and a

287
00:16:20,161 --> 00:16:23,081
Speaker 1: best friend who've just been fighting like tooth and nail.

288
00:16:23,281 --> 00:16:25,041
Speaker 1: And this is why I wanted to have you on Mindy,

289
00:16:25,121 --> 00:16:27,401
Speaker 1: because I feel like you have so much to offer

290
00:16:27,441 --> 00:16:31,441
Speaker 1: those who listen to the Missing Matter, sharing your investivity

291
00:16:31,441 --> 00:16:34,641
Speaker 1: of mindset, your care and concern for Christy, and how

292
00:16:34,641 --> 00:16:38,601
Speaker 1: you've navigated the media when the story you're helping with

293
00:16:38,721 --> 00:16:41,121
Speaker 1: took off. I wanted to ask you what was it

294
00:16:41,281 --> 00:16:44,481
Speaker 1: like doing the podcast in what felt like real time

295
00:16:44,721 --> 00:16:46,841
Speaker 1: as it was gaining huge media attention.

296
00:16:47,761 --> 00:16:52,081
Speaker 4: I tried to mentally prepare myself as much as I

297
00:16:52,121 --> 00:16:56,001
Speaker 4: could for whatever would happen. Ash did say, you know,

298
00:16:56,041 --> 00:16:57,921
Speaker 4: we're going to be doing publications, We're going to be

299
00:16:57,921 --> 00:17:00,961
Speaker 4: doing videos and podcasts, and everything's going to be running

300
00:17:01,001 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 4: at the same time. And I don't think I fully

301
00:17:06,681 --> 00:17:09,001
Speaker 4: understood how big that would be.

302
00:17:09,241 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 1: A front page of the newspapers, right like all the

303
00:17:11,241 --> 00:17:15,120
Speaker 1: big newspapers in Sydney, and so everyone was reading about it.

304
00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:18,761
Speaker 4: It was crazy. I was getting calls from everyone. A

305
00:17:18,801 --> 00:17:21,600
Speaker 4: heap of people into State were like, this is on

306
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,640
Speaker 4: the front page and you're on page ten and it

307
00:17:24,801 --> 00:17:28,000
Speaker 4: was a little, I guess daunting, because you don't know

308
00:17:28,041 --> 00:17:29,961
Speaker 4: how people will respond.

309
00:17:30,321 --> 00:17:31,921
Speaker 3: I'm not a naive.

310
00:17:32,041 --> 00:17:35,081
Speaker 4: I do know that people can be quite cruel and nasty,

311
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,001
Speaker 4: and I think for me personally, I was just waiting

312
00:17:38,201 --> 00:17:43,281
Speaker 4: for something or someone to throw in a bit of

313
00:17:43,321 --> 00:17:47,881
Speaker 4: negative around. But we were lucky. News called were amazing.

314
00:17:48,001 --> 00:17:54,321
Speaker 4: Ash's phenomenal. She is a beautiful person. She cares deeply

315
00:17:54,521 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 4: and it was never just a podcast. Christy and I

316
00:17:58,041 --> 00:18:01,200
Speaker 4: sat down very early on and I remember saying to her,

317
00:18:01,921 --> 00:18:04,160
Speaker 4: Oh God, as she's going to hear this, Ash, I

318
00:18:04,201 --> 00:18:08,120
Speaker 4: love you. Don't take this personally. If she oversteps the mark,

319
00:18:08,241 --> 00:18:11,200
Speaker 4: I am going to remind her that this isn't an

320
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 4: effing podcast, this is your life.

321
00:18:14,521 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 3: Like I just never had to do it. It was

322
00:18:17,321 --> 00:18:20,281
Speaker 3: a really good experience.

323
00:18:20,281 --> 00:18:22,641
Speaker 1: Which is so good to hear because it's a lot,

324
00:18:22,721 --> 00:18:25,281
Speaker 1: right Like you guys are being projected, your names are

325
00:18:25,281 --> 00:18:28,521
Speaker 1: in papers, your faces are everywhere, your voices are on there.

326
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,120
Speaker 1: There was times when you were crying and Chrisy's like,

327
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,920
Speaker 1: you said you weren't going to cry, and she's I

328
00:18:33,001 --> 00:18:36,041
Speaker 1: knew she'd cry, And you know, because it's an emotional

329
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,041
Speaker 1: roller coaster, right, It's it's hard, yeah.

330
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,880
Speaker 4: You know, Like I said, earlier. I love Christie, She's

331
00:18:43,921 --> 00:18:45,881
Speaker 4: one of my best friends. I could not do life

332
00:18:45,921 --> 00:18:49,160
Speaker 4: with Ada, And it's tough, like I will never feel

333
00:18:49,201 --> 00:18:51,880
Speaker 4: the same pain as her and her mum and a

334
00:18:52,041 --> 00:18:57,241
Speaker 4: dad felt. But it's very hard not to go to

335
00:18:57,321 --> 00:19:02,681
Speaker 4: cry now. Yeah, it's very hard not to hurt. It's

336
00:19:02,721 --> 00:19:05,880
Speaker 4: a really shitty story really to your situation.

337
00:19:06,961 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 3: They're just the most beautiful.

338
00:19:08,801 --> 00:19:13,321
Speaker 1: Family, just sad her dad died not knowing what happened

339
00:19:13,321 --> 00:19:16,321
Speaker 1: to her too, and like two thousand and one, that

340
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,281
Speaker 1: was the Ella was born. Ella's turning twenty five this year,

341
00:19:19,321 --> 00:19:22,401
Speaker 1: so you know, it's a long time ago that this

342
00:19:22,521 --> 00:19:26,441
Speaker 1: trauma has been going. And we won't talk about the podcast.

343
00:19:26,481 --> 00:19:29,201
Speaker 1: We'll let everyone go and have a listen, But how

344
00:19:29,201 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 1: did you feel at the last point of the podcast,

345
00:19:32,761 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 1: when the last episode being dropped? How are you feeling?

346
00:19:37,041 --> 00:19:40,160
Speaker 1: Don't tell anybody why, but just I mean, there will

347
00:19:40,201 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 1: be a lot of people who listen to this who

348
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,681
Speaker 1: have been following because I know a lot of people

349
00:19:44,761 --> 00:19:47,400
Speaker 1: were following along from my page as well, and so

350
00:19:47,441 --> 00:19:48,961
Speaker 1: they will know what we're talking about. But we're not

351
00:19:49,001 --> 00:19:50,481
Speaker 1: going to mention it here. But I just wanted to

352
00:19:50,521 --> 00:19:53,321
Speaker 1: ask you how you felt like, what was the feeling

353
00:19:53,561 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 1: if you think bad? Because I remember reaching out to

354
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,041
Speaker 1: you and you told me how you felt, but I

355
00:19:57,441 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: want you to tell me the emotions and the feeling

356
00:19:59,761 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 1: you had at that time.

357
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,561
Speaker 3: It was a weird one. It was like gut punch,

358
00:20:05,321 --> 00:20:06,041
Speaker 3: I was lost.

359
00:20:06,321 --> 00:20:09,360
Speaker 4: I don't know. It was a weird feeling, like we've

360
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,081
Speaker 4: been working every day for.

361
00:20:12,921 --> 00:20:16,880
Speaker 3: So long, and then it was just dumb. It was hard.

362
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:19,801
Speaker 3: I think I went into a.

363
00:20:19,761 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 4: Bit of a personal hibernation type situation just waiting. I

364
00:20:25,241 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 4: guess like we were just like, well, what do we

365
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,001
Speaker 4: do now? And I had to sort of like take

366
00:20:30,041 --> 00:20:35,721
Speaker 4: a moment. It was like what, you know, what the sorry?

367
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,321
Speaker 4: I want the way to explain.

368
00:20:37,001 --> 00:20:40,001
Speaker 1: It, and we're too from here, right, that's so sort

369
00:20:40,041 --> 00:20:42,361
Speaker 1: of like where you go, what do we do now?

370
00:20:42,521 --> 00:20:46,401
Speaker 1: Kind of thing? And yeah, I guess that's where we're

371
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: going to leave you today. So you can fill us

372
00:20:50,001 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 1: in when you can, because I know that it's still

373
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: a current investigation and rolling along. Which very happy to

374
00:20:56,281 --> 00:20:58,681
Speaker 1: hear that, but you know, the integrity of their case

375
00:20:58,761 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 1: is really important. It's just slow, right, It's so long,

376
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 1: so long, but.

377
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,441
Speaker 3: Just waiting, that's all I can say.

378
00:21:08,241 --> 00:21:11,880
Speaker 1: Really, well, I will reach out to Christy too, because

379
00:21:11,961 --> 00:21:14,721
Speaker 1: I was thinking I should have you both on at

380
00:21:14,721 --> 00:21:17,201
Speaker 1: the same time, because I feel like you're a team.

381
00:21:17,521 --> 00:21:20,160
Speaker 1: But I wanted to bring you on for another reason

382
00:21:20,201 --> 00:21:23,281
Speaker 1: as well, which we've talked about, like just so people

383
00:21:23,441 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: know when I'm inviting people to come on to the

384
00:21:26,481 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 1: Missing Matter, I do spend a fair bit of time

385
00:21:29,201 --> 00:21:32,241
Speaker 1: making sure that everybody is okay in this space, because

386
00:21:32,721 --> 00:21:36,761
Speaker 1: we are talking about stuff that is sad and stressful,

387
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,121
Speaker 1: and it can be frustrating and it can make you angry.

388
00:21:41,481 --> 00:21:44,321
Speaker 1: But there are times when we need to take a

389
00:21:44,321 --> 00:21:47,721
Speaker 1: bit of a gentle step in helping to share awareness

390
00:21:47,721 --> 00:21:52,321
Speaker 1: and bring certain things to the light. And the other

391
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 1: part of this chat with you today, Mindy, was to

392
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,521
Speaker 1: ask you if you could help anybody in this space,

393
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,561
Speaker 1: because not only have you been an amazing help to

394
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,321
Speaker 1: but you've also been an amazing help to another friend

395
00:22:09,761 --> 00:22:12,241
Speaker 1: as well. I feel like it was like this time

396
00:22:12,321 --> 00:22:16,001
Speaker 1: last year, I saw you put a post on Facebook

397
00:22:16,681 --> 00:22:18,561
Speaker 1: your friend had gone missing.

398
00:22:19,281 --> 00:22:21,681
Speaker 3: I think it was midyear, so.

399
00:22:22,041 --> 00:22:24,561
Speaker 1: Around August last year. And we're not going to use

400
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: his name. We're going to use pseudonym for him, just

401
00:22:26,921 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 1: to keep his identity say he knows. We've been talking

402
00:22:30,681 --> 00:22:33,761
Speaker 1: a little bit about it, and I just thought what

403
00:22:33,801 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: you did and how you did it was such an

404
00:22:37,001 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: important part of most people's journeys. And I know you

405
00:22:40,041 --> 00:22:42,561
Speaker 1: don't think you're a superwoman. I think you are. And

406
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,241
Speaker 1: when you've got a situation in Australia like last year

407
00:22:46,241 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: we had over fifty six thousand reports of missing people,

408
00:22:50,761 --> 00:22:55,001
Speaker 1: that's absurd. That is such a massive number. So this

409
00:22:55,041 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: could happen to your next door neighbor, it could happen

410
00:22:58,441 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: to you, it could happen to somebody that you know,

411
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: and I just feel like part of this podcast, I

412
00:23:04,721 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: want to try and help people. I'm not an expert,

413
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 1: of course, and I don't put that hat on, but

414
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 1: I want to try and help people understand if you

415
00:23:12,921 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: find yourself in this position, what are some of the

416
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,001
Speaker 1: things you can do proactively to help immediately, without relying

417
00:23:20,041 --> 00:23:22,801
Speaker 1: on police who don't have enough resources to help you,

418
00:23:22,961 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: or might push it aside because they think that mental

419
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,561
Speaker 1: health is involved, for example, you can do things to help.

420
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 1: And this is what I'm going to ask Mindy about

421
00:23:34,041 --> 00:23:36,481
Speaker 1: your friend Toby. We're going to call him. Toby disappeared

422
00:23:36,561 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: and you went straight into action and miraculously you found

423
00:23:39,521 --> 00:23:43,521
Speaker 1: him with very little help from authorities. So I would

424
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,721
Speaker 1: like it if you would be so kind to share

425
00:23:45,761 --> 00:23:48,961
Speaker 1: with us that story and what happened and what you

426
00:23:49,001 --> 00:23:54,681
Speaker 1: did and the how, and let us know how Toby

427
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,161
Speaker 1: is going today.

428
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,241
Speaker 4: Obviously, Step one is to make a report. As soon

429
00:24:02,481 --> 00:24:03,041
Speaker 4: as you.

430
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:08,481
Speaker 5: Know that your person is missing or isn't where they

431
00:24:09,201 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 5: should be and you are concerned for their.

432
00:24:13,441 --> 00:24:15,081
Speaker 3: Safety, make a report.

433
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 4: The chances of that report being taken seriously in some

434
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 4: cases early in the piece is very slim. Take names

435
00:24:24,681 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 4: down and write down everything. Who am I speaking to?

436
00:24:28,241 --> 00:24:32,041
Speaker 4: It is Wednesday the twenty eighth, that three seventeen, I'm

437
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,441
Speaker 4: speaking to such and such, This is what I've said,

438
00:24:35,481 --> 00:24:38,201
Speaker 4: this is what they've said. At least you have something.

439
00:24:38,241 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 4: If they don't take the report, at least you know.

440
00:24:40,521 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 4: That is when I'm called. First thing I did was

441
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,921
Speaker 4: grubbed an exercise book and I just wrote down everything

442
00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:47,201
Speaker 4: that I could possibly.

443
00:24:46,761 --> 00:24:49,281
Speaker 3: Remember that that's happened months.

444
00:24:48,961 --> 00:24:55,161
Speaker 4: Prior and our initial conversations with police from there. When

445
00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:00,041
Speaker 4: they're not taking that report, I guess seriously, I knew

446
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:03,561
Speaker 4: that not much was going to be done, So personally,

447
00:25:03,761 --> 00:25:08,521
Speaker 4: I know Toby well enough where to start looking, I guess,

448
00:25:08,801 --> 00:25:11,721
Speaker 4: so I know where his heads are, I know what's

449
00:25:11,761 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 4: been happening in his world, and basically just went on

450
00:25:15,441 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 4: the hunt. What's he spoken about in the last couple

451
00:25:18,721 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 4: of months, Where does he want to go, what does

452
00:25:20,441 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 4: he suggest that.

453
00:25:21,201 --> 00:25:24,561
Speaker 3: He wants to do. Basically started from there.

454
00:25:25,241 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 4: So I jumped straight on to Google, Facebook, you name it,

455
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,001
Speaker 4: reached out and contacted as many people and places that

456
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 4: I possibly could that he could have potentially gone to.

457
00:25:39,521 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 4: So I reached out to everybody that I possibly could

458
00:25:44,481 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 4: in every place that he had ever suggested, and I

459
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,561
Speaker 4: think it was within twenty four hours. I think it

460
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,241
Speaker 4: was the same day I started receiving calls back going, oh, hey,

461
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,201
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if this is who you're looking for.

462
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:04,041
Speaker 4: But I did happen to see someone of a similar description,

463
00:26:04,761 --> 00:26:07,681
Speaker 4: but that is six hours away from you, so I'm

464
00:26:07,721 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 4: hesitant to think that it's who you're looking for. Turns

465
00:26:11,681 --> 00:26:16,321
Speaker 4: out it was, and we just kept searching, just kept

466
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 4: contacting people, and then when we confirmed one hundred percent,

467
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,481
Speaker 4: it hit me that it was just about to get.

468
00:26:27,281 --> 00:26:30,801
Speaker 3: A whole lot harder because he had left New South Wales.

469
00:26:31,761 --> 00:26:36,721
Speaker 4: Now we're dealing with a cross border interstate, two police

470
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,921
Speaker 4: jurisdictions to deal with, and I don't need to explain

471
00:26:40,961 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 4: that to you, SOW. I was devastated and freaking out

472
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,041
Speaker 4: just knowing how difficult it was going to be. On

473
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:53,801
Speaker 4: the outside though, just put my big girl pants on

474
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,241
Speaker 4: and pretended everything was okay. I mean, I was at

475
00:26:57,241 --> 00:27:01,281
Speaker 4: my best friend's house looking for her husband. The little

476
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 4: kids that you need to suck up for, just be

477
00:27:06,721 --> 00:27:07,521
Speaker 4: okay for them.

478
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:11,681
Speaker 1: Explain to everyone why it was a drama for police.

479
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: What was the challenges that you guys found at that juncture,

480
00:27:16,241 --> 00:27:18,561
Speaker 1: What was causing the stress and the problems there.

481
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:20,681
Speaker 3: Well, he's a.

482
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 4: Missing person in New South Wales because that's where he

483
00:27:22,801 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 4: lives and that's where he went missing. So New South

484
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 4: Wales Police have jurisdiction over that missing person. When a

485
00:27:30,961 --> 00:27:37,321
Speaker 4: missing person crosses into another jurisdiction, inter state, New South

486
00:27:37,321 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 4: Wales police have no control over entering and locating that person,

487
00:27:43,561 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 4: so they rely on the interstate police to do that

488
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 4: jump for them. So at one point I had New

489
00:27:51,521 --> 00:27:54,961
Speaker 4: South Wales Police on my mobile on speakerphone. New South

490
00:27:54,961 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 4: Wales Police had Queensland Police on their phone and I

491
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,961
Speaker 4: was screaming at both New South Wales and Queensland police because.

492
00:28:05,281 --> 00:28:06,121
Speaker 3: What can they do?

493
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:12,281
Speaker 1: And is this because he hadn't physically been spoken to

494
00:28:12,441 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 1: by police at this point and you guys are a

495
00:28:14,921 --> 00:28:17,561
Speaker 1: long way away from being able to go and just

496
00:28:17,801 --> 00:28:19,121
Speaker 1: pick him up and bring him home.

497
00:28:20,041 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's pretty much what I was yelling about.

498
00:28:22,961 --> 00:28:25,041
Speaker 1: And he's at high risk right, Like, he was not

499
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,561
Speaker 1: in a very good headspace. So therefore, just because he

500
00:28:29,721 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: had been identified at a certain location didn't mean that

501
00:28:32,961 --> 00:28:35,801
Speaker 1: he could walk off and be missing again, Like you

502
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: might have to go down that whole path again. So

503
00:28:39,001 --> 00:28:42,681
Speaker 1: there's that element of urgency that needs to be taken seriously.

504
00:28:43,001 --> 00:28:46,681
Speaker 1: And it was Toby suffering with mental health or was

505
00:28:46,721 --> 00:28:50,041
Speaker 1: suicide thrown around or anything like that from police, Like

506
00:28:50,081 --> 00:28:54,481
Speaker 1: what was the general conversation about his current condition.

507
00:28:54,241 --> 00:28:56,481
Speaker 3: He had brought that up as a concern.

508
00:28:57,521 --> 00:29:01,361
Speaker 4: It was basically there's nothing to confirm that, there's nothing

509
00:29:01,401 --> 00:29:04,641
Speaker 4: to say that that's going to happen or that was

510
00:29:04,641 --> 00:29:09,481
Speaker 4: the intern He could just be taking time out. Well, one,

511
00:29:09,601 --> 00:29:12,641
Speaker 4: if a mother had done that, people would be up

512
00:29:12,641 --> 00:29:13,001
Speaker 4: in arms.

513
00:29:13,001 --> 00:29:14,601
Speaker 3: My mother would never leave her children.

514
00:29:15,361 --> 00:29:18,121
Speaker 4: Well, why do we automatically assume that a father would

515
00:29:18,481 --> 00:29:22,121
Speaker 4: why do we just assume, well, he's the father, he just.

516
00:29:22,081 --> 00:29:22,881
Speaker 3: Wants some time out.

517
00:29:23,641 --> 00:29:28,921
Speaker 4: We can't just assume that because the missing person is male,

518
00:29:29,281 --> 00:29:30,361
Speaker 4: that they are not at risk.

519
00:29:31,681 --> 00:29:35,361
Speaker 6: Oh it was not my finest moment, but I did

520
00:29:35,681 --> 00:29:39,001
Speaker 6: go off like a crazy person at the police and said,

521
00:29:39,401 --> 00:29:42,681
Speaker 6: if I walked into the police station now and said

522
00:29:43,361 --> 00:29:44,601
Speaker 6: my best friend is missing.

523
00:29:45,241 --> 00:29:49,281
Speaker 4: She has not been contactable for two days, her husband

524
00:29:49,281 --> 00:29:53,361
Speaker 4: has now taken off, and I am in fear of

525
00:29:53,401 --> 00:29:57,441
Speaker 4: her safety, you would find him in three freaking seconds.

526
00:29:57,721 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 4: But because I'm telling you that he has gone missing

527
00:30:00,681 --> 00:30:03,641
Speaker 4: and he is not in a good space, he's just

528
00:30:03,681 --> 00:30:04,441
Speaker 4: taking time out.

529
00:30:04,441 --> 00:30:07,761
Speaker 3: He'll be fine, it is infuriating.

530
00:30:08,361 --> 00:30:13,841
Speaker 4: And then the additional layer of interstate issues.

531
00:30:14,121 --> 00:30:17,161
Speaker 1: It's just bureaucracy. It shouldn't actually happen. I have been

532
00:30:17,241 --> 00:30:19,761
Speaker 1: barking on this tree for a long time saying why

533
00:30:19,801 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: can't the states work together, especially when there's a missing

534
00:30:22,481 --> 00:30:26,881
Speaker 1: person involved. I'm like, this becomes ridiculous, Like there becomes

535
00:30:26,961 --> 00:30:32,001
Speaker 1: a set of just being sensible about a situation and

536
00:30:32,041 --> 00:30:36,121
Speaker 1: not having these jurisdictions and privacy issues and all the

537
00:30:36,121 --> 00:30:39,401
Speaker 1: rest of it in place. I'm so sad and angry

538
00:30:39,481 --> 00:30:42,001
Speaker 1: at the same time that I keep hearing police make

539
00:30:42,041 --> 00:30:46,681
Speaker 1: assumptions about people's feelings and who they are as people

540
00:30:46,681 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: when they've never met these people. You know, they're not

541
00:30:49,281 --> 00:30:52,521
Speaker 1: listening to the people who care and love them. They're

542
00:30:52,561 --> 00:30:55,841
Speaker 1: just making judgment on what they've seen in the past

543
00:30:55,961 --> 00:30:58,121
Speaker 1: or what they know that's happened in the past. But

544
00:30:58,681 --> 00:31:00,841
Speaker 1: the numbers are getting bigger, you know. I think when

545
00:31:00,881 --> 00:31:04,041
Speaker 1: mum first went missing, we were like thirty seven thousand people.

546
00:31:05,121 --> 00:31:07,681
Speaker 1: Now up to fifty six. It's getting worse and we

547
00:31:07,761 --> 00:31:11,201
Speaker 1: need to fix that problem. And I know as soon

548
00:31:11,241 --> 00:31:14,081
Speaker 1: as you mentioned mental healthy in any case, there's a

549
00:31:14,121 --> 00:31:18,281
Speaker 1: stigma that's attached to that. My first episode Sandrine Jordan

550
00:31:18,601 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: and very similar situation, they made an assumption, because she

551
00:31:22,961 --> 00:31:26,041
Speaker 1: had mental health issues, that she was paranoid, that she'd

552
00:31:26,681 --> 00:31:31,561
Speaker 1: previously attempted suicide. So therefore, when she goes missing, they go, oh, well,

553
00:31:31,681 --> 00:31:35,521
Speaker 1: you know, she must have suicided. That's what's put on

554
00:31:35,561 --> 00:31:38,161
Speaker 1: her death certificate. You know, you've got an inquest like

555
00:31:38,481 --> 00:31:40,441
Speaker 1: what I end up having with my mum that had

556
00:31:40,441 --> 00:31:43,921
Speaker 1: twenty odd days, and witnesses come and give evidence, and

557
00:31:44,001 --> 00:31:47,481
Speaker 1: a coorin is sitting in a courtroom asking questions, and

558
00:31:47,721 --> 00:31:51,681
Speaker 1: counsel assisting, helping, and lawyers helping and trying to find

559
00:31:51,721 --> 00:31:53,601
Speaker 1: the truth as to what's happened, as opposed to getting

560
00:31:53,601 --> 00:31:56,281
Speaker 1: a police report and a coroner making a decision based

561
00:31:56,321 --> 00:32:00,001
Speaker 1: on that without even taking reports from family and friends

562
00:32:00,001 --> 00:32:04,521
Speaker 1: who know the person who's gone missing and losing important information.

563
00:32:05,081 --> 00:32:06,881
Speaker 1: There has to be a change. And that's why I

564
00:32:06,921 --> 00:32:10,001
Speaker 1: wanted you to talk about this story with Toby, because

565
00:32:10,681 --> 00:32:13,241
Speaker 1: I know we're not going to sort of dive into

566
00:32:13,521 --> 00:32:15,521
Speaker 1: the why and all that sort of jazz. We just

567
00:32:15,561 --> 00:32:18,241
Speaker 1: need to know that he was in a space in

568
00:32:18,281 --> 00:32:20,481
Speaker 1: his own self where he felt he had to leave.

569
00:32:21,241 --> 00:32:24,761
Speaker 1: You ended up finding where he was through verification on

570
00:32:25,161 --> 00:32:26,921
Speaker 1: all the hard work you were doing. I was watching

571
00:32:26,921 --> 00:32:30,641
Speaker 1: you on Facebook two and you were seeming very stressed.

572
00:32:30,761 --> 00:32:33,321
Speaker 1: I remember like just reading some of your comments and

573
00:32:33,321 --> 00:32:34,921
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my goodness, I wish I could

574
00:32:34,961 --> 00:32:37,281
Speaker 1: do something more than just share it on my page,

575
00:32:37,361 --> 00:32:39,601
Speaker 1: because at that point that's all we can do. Right

576
00:32:39,761 --> 00:32:42,161
Speaker 1: as bystanders. We can go, Okay, let's share it and

577
00:32:42,201 --> 00:32:45,201
Speaker 1: hope that people share it as well, and the algorithm

578
00:32:45,241 --> 00:32:49,121
Speaker 1: grows and someone happens to see him and contacts you.

579
00:32:49,161 --> 00:32:52,201
Speaker 1: Know his family and friends helping to find him.

580
00:32:52,321 --> 00:32:56,681
Speaker 4: Which is pretty much what happened, Like power of the people.

581
00:32:57,161 --> 00:33:03,441
Speaker 4: I had people checking in, calling every day. I left

582
00:33:03,481 --> 00:33:08,081
Speaker 4: my number with businesses, random people I found via Google search,

583
00:33:08,721 --> 00:33:09,281
Speaker 4: you name it.

584
00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:10,401
Speaker 3: I tried it and.

585
00:33:11,761 --> 00:33:14,641
Speaker 4: Gosh, I can't even tell you how many people checking

586
00:33:14,681 --> 00:33:17,881
Speaker 4: in daily And just have you got an update?

587
00:33:17,961 --> 00:33:19,601
Speaker 3: Do you know where he was sighted last?

588
00:33:20,161 --> 00:33:24,401
Speaker 4: It was amazing to see strangers coming together to help us,

589
00:33:25,201 --> 00:33:28,921
Speaker 4: But on the flip side, really frustrating that little old

590
00:33:28,961 --> 00:33:32,361
Speaker 4: me found him in less than twenty four hours and

591
00:33:32,401 --> 00:33:36,481
Speaker 4: then calling New South Wales Police saying he's been sited here.

592
00:33:36,761 --> 00:33:40,961
Speaker 4: You know, by the time they actioned it for them

593
00:33:41,521 --> 00:33:46,041
Speaker 4: to then contact Interstate Police to say can you go

594
00:33:46,121 --> 00:33:49,681
Speaker 4: check out this location? Well that was three days ago, dude,

595
00:33:50,081 --> 00:33:52,601
Speaker 4: you've searched there. I could have told you today that

596
00:33:52,641 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 4: he's been in four different suburbs in the meantime.

597
00:33:57,241 --> 00:33:59,681
Speaker 3: Like, how can dy not do this?

598
00:34:00,881 --> 00:34:04,841
Speaker 4: When I first got into this space, it's the time.

599
00:34:05,041 --> 00:34:09,121
Speaker 4: It was twenty odd years ago. Things have changed now.

600
00:34:09,841 --> 00:34:13,601
Speaker 4: Our processes are better, our resources are better, but we

601
00:34:13,641 --> 00:34:14,361
Speaker 4: still don't.

602
00:34:14,161 --> 00:34:14,681
Speaker 1: Have it right.

603
00:34:15,121 --> 00:34:17,361
Speaker 3: I'm not a police officer, I don't have a degree

604
00:34:17,481 --> 00:34:18,841
Speaker 3: I didn't go to UNI.

605
00:34:19,481 --> 00:34:25,361
Speaker 4: I am just a girl and a mobile phone searching

606
00:34:26,001 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 4: in a way that the police don't Now they might

607
00:34:30,121 --> 00:34:32,361
Speaker 4: not be allowed to do that.

608
00:34:32,481 --> 00:34:35,921
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it's got a change.

609
00:34:36,441 --> 00:34:40,521
Speaker 4: It has to because I mean when Toby got home,

610
00:34:40,641 --> 00:34:44,641
Speaker 4: like he said, I don't know how you found me.

611
00:34:46,281 --> 00:34:49,001
Speaker 4: I don't know how you did it, but that is

612
00:34:49,041 --> 00:34:52,401
Speaker 4: what got me home. If you hadn't found me, I

613
00:34:52,401 --> 00:34:55,481
Speaker 4: wouldn't come home. And the police need to.

614
00:34:57,441 --> 00:34:58,121
Speaker 3: They need to be.

615
00:34:58,161 --> 00:35:01,641
Speaker 4: Able to listen to us families when we go in

616
00:35:01,641 --> 00:35:04,161
Speaker 4: there and say this is what's going to happen.

617
00:35:05,041 --> 00:35:08,001
Speaker 3: It's got to change.

618
00:35:08,041 --> 00:35:11,481
Speaker 1: How many days was he missing for at the end

619
00:35:11,521 --> 00:35:15,841
Speaker 1: of it, just over a week And you initially had

620
00:35:15,881 --> 00:35:18,321
Speaker 1: that person ring you and contact you and say we've

621
00:35:18,361 --> 00:35:21,921
Speaker 1: identified him the very first day. Yet it still took

622
00:35:21,961 --> 00:35:24,321
Speaker 1: a week the day.

623
00:35:24,321 --> 00:35:28,841
Speaker 4: We started searching, like really searching. Yeah, I had three

624
00:35:29,081 --> 00:35:30,401
Speaker 4: confirmed sightings.

625
00:35:31,041 --> 00:35:34,441
Speaker 1: So that brings home to the sense of urgency that

626
00:35:34,521 --> 00:35:36,761
Speaker 1: needs to come with a missing person's case. Two. Right

627
00:35:36,841 --> 00:35:41,201
Speaker 1: when police aren't hearing us, or they're not listening to us,

628
00:35:41,241 --> 00:35:44,841
Speaker 1: or they're making assumptions about what's happened and not taking

629
00:35:44,921 --> 00:35:49,001
Speaker 1: instant action or going he'll be right. He's probably just

630
00:35:49,081 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: needing some time out. They say, oh, you know, that's

631
00:35:51,561 --> 00:35:54,001
Speaker 1: not the rule, But that does happen. I've seen people

632
00:35:54,001 --> 00:35:56,721
Speaker 1: get turned away going he'll be right, and that's still

633
00:35:56,721 --> 00:36:00,641
Speaker 1: happening today. But it does, and that's what has to

634
00:36:00,761 --> 00:36:02,121
Speaker 1: change exactly.

635
00:36:02,161 --> 00:36:07,121
Speaker 4: The difference between someone being here and coming home, being

636
00:36:07,201 --> 00:36:11,521
Speaker 4: here and not isn't twenty four to forty eight hours.

637
00:36:12,001 --> 00:36:15,481
Speaker 3: It's an instant decision. You make the decision and you

638
00:36:15,561 --> 00:36:15,841
Speaker 3: do it.

639
00:36:16,401 --> 00:36:19,201
Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask, how is Toby going now?

640
00:36:20,081 --> 00:36:20,881
Speaker 3: It's a tough road.

641
00:36:20,921 --> 00:36:25,081
Speaker 4: Anybody who suffered any type of trauma or mental health

642
00:36:25,121 --> 00:36:26,921
Speaker 4: issues knows that it's a long battle.

643
00:36:27,961 --> 00:36:29,361
Speaker 3: But when he.

644
00:36:29,321 --> 00:36:31,921
Speaker 4: Got home and I said to him, there is not

645
00:36:32,081 --> 00:36:35,681
Speaker 4: a single place on earth that you could go that

646
00:36:35,761 --> 00:36:36,561
Speaker 4: I won't find you.

647
00:36:37,161 --> 00:36:39,241
Speaker 3: So next time come here.

648
00:36:39,561 --> 00:36:41,161
Speaker 4: If I need to leave and you need to just

649
00:36:41,281 --> 00:36:45,281
Speaker 4: lock yourself away, then that's what we do. But we

650
00:36:45,321 --> 00:36:47,481
Speaker 4: don't do this again, because you know I'm going to

651
00:36:47,481 --> 00:36:51,881
Speaker 4: find you and I'll keep finding you. But you know,

652
00:36:52,001 --> 00:36:57,121
Speaker 4: having him say, if you hadn't found me and kept

653
00:36:57,161 --> 00:36:59,801
Speaker 4: finding me, he says, I kept running, I kept trying

654
00:36:59,841 --> 00:37:01,761
Speaker 4: to get away from you, and you kept.

655
00:37:01,521 --> 00:37:05,241
Speaker 3: Finding me, that is the only thing that brought me back, muck.

656
00:37:05,801 --> 00:37:06,721
Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing.

657
00:37:07,081 --> 00:37:08,481
Speaker 3: We can support and love.

658
00:37:08,361 --> 00:37:11,561
Speaker 4: Him and do the hard yards with him as much

659
00:37:11,601 --> 00:37:17,361
Speaker 4: as we possibly can. But I myself have struggled, and

660
00:37:17,601 --> 00:37:19,241
Speaker 4: it can be the slightest thing.

661
00:37:19,121 --> 00:37:22,561
Speaker 3: That really pushes you into a dark place.

662
00:37:23,321 --> 00:37:26,161
Speaker 4: You know, if I said that, I you know I'm

663
00:37:26,201 --> 00:37:28,841
Speaker 4: confident that I won't be searching again.

664
00:37:29,401 --> 00:37:31,121
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I can't say that.

665
00:37:31,521 --> 00:37:33,961
Speaker 4: All I know is the next time, I won't be

666
00:37:34,001 --> 00:37:37,441
Speaker 4: waiting a single day for the police. I'll put the

667
00:37:37,481 --> 00:37:40,401
Speaker 4: report in, but I will start searching myself straight away,

668
00:37:40,521 --> 00:37:44,241
Speaker 4: because the second we started searching, we found him. That

669
00:37:44,321 --> 00:37:48,081
Speaker 4: in itself is it's hard to deal with, not just

670
00:37:48,161 --> 00:37:49,641
Speaker 4: for me, but for Toby.

671
00:37:50,321 --> 00:37:53,601
Speaker 3: I can imagine knowing please do nothing.

672
00:37:54,281 --> 00:37:56,721
Speaker 1: And for those of us who are living in the

673
00:37:56,761 --> 00:37:59,161
Speaker 1: missing space, I can tell you that I kick myself

674
00:37:59,201 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: every day because I think what I'm struggling with at

675
00:38:02,441 --> 00:38:06,201
Speaker 1: the moment is just something that has just started with me.

676
00:38:06,321 --> 00:38:09,721
Speaker 1: I think since maybe I've been doing these podcast episodes

677
00:38:10,001 --> 00:38:14,961
Speaker 1: and I actually don't have a location to search for

678
00:38:15,041 --> 00:38:19,001
Speaker 1: my mum. I just don't know where she was. And

679
00:38:19,401 --> 00:38:22,761
Speaker 1: to be really honest with everybody, I think that's probably

680
00:38:22,801 --> 00:38:25,481
Speaker 1: a good thing, because, honest to God, if I had

681
00:38:25,521 --> 00:38:28,841
Speaker 1: an understanding of where she would be, I don't think

682
00:38:28,921 --> 00:38:31,081
Speaker 1: i'd be able to rest. I would be out there

683
00:38:31,161 --> 00:38:35,401
Speaker 1: every single day looking to try and find something that

684
00:38:35,761 --> 00:38:39,521
Speaker 1: brought her home. So it's something that I'm probably struggling

685
00:38:39,561 --> 00:38:42,361
Speaker 1: with a little bit in my own self about that

686
00:38:42,361 --> 00:38:45,081
Speaker 1: that I don't know. I don't know the location, and

687
00:38:45,521 --> 00:38:48,521
Speaker 1: I dream about different locations and things like that. But

688
00:38:49,081 --> 00:38:52,041
Speaker 1: I also kicked myself a lot that I didn't do

689
00:38:52,201 --> 00:38:55,481
Speaker 1: more at the time when the police told me, oh, well,

690
00:38:55,521 --> 00:38:58,041
Speaker 1: we'll just you know, I left Byron Bay Police station

691
00:38:58,161 --> 00:39:00,961
Speaker 1: thinking that they would do something, and they rang me

692
00:39:01,201 --> 00:39:04,081
Speaker 1: like a week later telling me that they had located

693
00:39:04,121 --> 00:39:06,121
Speaker 1: her and she didn't want anyone to know where she

694
00:39:06,281 --> 00:39:09,601
Speaker 1: was or what she's doing. And the mental load that

695
00:39:09,601 --> 00:39:12,481
Speaker 1: that puts onto what I was when I was twenty

696
00:39:12,481 --> 00:39:14,761
Speaker 1: four years of age hearing that, and one was only

697
00:39:14,801 --> 00:39:18,361
Speaker 1: twenty two. The mental load on the children and on

698
00:39:18,401 --> 00:39:22,841
Speaker 1: my grandparents as well to hear that was just so diabolical.

699
00:39:23,681 --> 00:39:25,801
Speaker 1: You just listen to what they say and you think, well,

700
00:39:26,121 --> 00:39:28,041
Speaker 1: what am I supposed to do? Like she doesn't want

701
00:39:28,041 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: to see us, what am I supposed to do.

702
00:39:30,841 --> 00:39:35,441
Speaker 4: That's what we've been taught from a very young age.

703
00:39:35,961 --> 00:39:39,281
Speaker 4: We teach our kids if you're in trouble, that's where

704
00:39:39,281 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 4: you go to. They are the people that are going

705
00:39:42,001 --> 00:39:45,521
Speaker 4: to help you. We rely on them to do that.

706
00:39:46,001 --> 00:39:49,761
Speaker 4: And to be upset with yourself, with your twenty four

707
00:39:49,841 --> 00:39:55,201
Speaker 4: year old self for believing in the very organization that

708
00:39:55,321 --> 00:39:57,801
Speaker 4: is supposed to do that for you.

709
00:39:58,961 --> 00:40:00,001
Speaker 3: Come on, that's.

710
00:39:59,841 --> 00:40:03,521
Speaker 1: Unfair, Sam, But that's what drives me in this space,

711
00:40:03,641 --> 00:40:05,921
Speaker 1: you know, like I feel like my whole adult life,

712
00:40:06,001 --> 00:40:08,241
Speaker 1: I've been sort of going through the roller coaster of

713
00:40:08,801 --> 00:40:11,041
Speaker 1: what it is, you know. I started working with Channel

714
00:40:11,041 --> 00:40:14,001
Speaker 1: seven to produce The Lady Vanishes back in late twenty eighteen.

715
00:40:15,041 --> 00:40:17,561
Speaker 1: Podcasts were very new, Like I'd only just listen to

716
00:40:17,601 --> 00:40:19,841
Speaker 1: the Teacher's Pet and that's sort of when I said

717
00:40:19,881 --> 00:40:22,361
Speaker 1: to Allison, maybe we should do a podcast, because at

718
00:40:22,361 --> 00:40:24,441
Speaker 1: that point, when I first met her, the idea was

719
00:40:24,441 --> 00:40:27,041
Speaker 1: to do a Sunday night program for an hour, and

720
00:40:27,081 --> 00:40:28,841
Speaker 1: I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to get

721
00:40:28,841 --> 00:40:33,321
Speaker 1: everything out in an hour episode, which they usually Let's

722
00:40:33,321 --> 00:40:35,921
Speaker 1: be honest, they cut it down to twenty minutes with

723
00:40:35,961 --> 00:40:37,761
Speaker 1: all the ads and everything, so I was like, there's

724
00:40:37,761 --> 00:40:39,481
Speaker 1: too much here, and that's.

725
00:40:39,241 --> 00:40:43,361
Speaker 4: When an hourisal that's cute. How many episodes did you

726
00:40:43,401 --> 00:40:45,241
Speaker 4: have five hundred and seventy.

727
00:40:44,961 --> 00:40:48,761
Speaker 1: Eight of The Lady Vanishes? I think fifty six. I

728
00:40:48,801 --> 00:40:52,801
Speaker 1: think there's nearly one hundred hours maybe of listening time.

729
00:40:53,441 --> 00:40:58,761
Speaker 4: It's mind blowing though, like it's, oh my gosh, this

730
00:40:58,961 --> 00:40:59,601
Speaker 4: can't be real.

731
00:41:00,001 --> 00:41:00,761
Speaker 1: It was pretty wild.

732
00:41:00,921 --> 00:41:02,241
Speaker 3: It's stranger than fiction.

733
00:41:02,961 --> 00:41:06,321
Speaker 4: You know, I'm ranging about crossing state lines, like I

734
00:41:06,361 --> 00:41:11,841
Speaker 4: can't imagine how much harder it is when we're talking international.

735
00:41:12,281 --> 00:41:15,161
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like there was a lot in the in the

736
00:41:15,201 --> 00:41:18,041
Speaker 1: bucket for me to sort of push my way through

737
00:41:18,081 --> 00:41:20,481
Speaker 1: and work out what was important, What did we need

738
00:41:20,481 --> 00:41:23,241
Speaker 1: to focus on? Where are we focusing on? Who do

739
00:41:23,281 --> 00:41:25,801
Speaker 1: I need help with? It's not your job to do that.

740
00:41:26,201 --> 00:41:27,721
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be your job to do that.

741
00:41:28,201 --> 00:41:31,081
Speaker 7: If we're doing it, should we not be looking at

742
00:41:31,081 --> 00:41:34,321
Speaker 7: the whole process, the whole system, the whole people are

743
00:41:34,321 --> 00:41:40,641
Speaker 7: being underutilized, you know, ex detectives are wasted resources, people

744
00:41:40,681 --> 00:41:43,361
Speaker 7: like Joni and right, we're just not being used.

745
00:41:43,361 --> 00:41:48,681
Speaker 4: Like there are resources out there that could potentially assist

746
00:41:48,761 --> 00:41:50,161
Speaker 4: with these cases.

747
00:41:51,361 --> 00:41:53,401
Speaker 1: And I will tell you something that I don't know

748
00:41:53,441 --> 00:41:56,201
Speaker 1: if I don't know if I've said this before, it's

749
00:41:56,241 --> 00:42:01,881
Speaker 1: probably just for knowledge to know that it's regarding Joanie

750
00:42:02,561 --> 00:42:09,561
Speaker 1: and Joony finding information and us pushing that information to

751
00:42:09,801 --> 00:42:14,401
Speaker 1: a certain jurisdiction, if you like, and informing them of

752
00:42:14,921 --> 00:42:20,321
Speaker 1: what we had found, and them coming back around to

753
00:42:20,481 --> 00:42:24,081
Speaker 1: where the information source was coming from, and them asking

754
00:42:25,001 --> 00:42:32,881
Speaker 1: them what else does she know? Referring to Jonie as

755
00:42:32,881 --> 00:42:36,401
Speaker 1: opposed to acting on the information that we're presenting. They're

756
00:42:36,401 --> 00:42:40,481
Speaker 1: more worried about what Joanie knows than acting on the

757
00:42:40,481 --> 00:42:44,281
Speaker 1: problem that hand. So that was very telling for us

758
00:42:44,401 --> 00:42:49,041
Speaker 1: at that point. It's really infuriating because you know, as

759
00:42:49,081 --> 00:42:52,721
Speaker 1: you say, she's an amazing human. I've met lots of

760
00:42:52,761 --> 00:42:56,601
Speaker 1: amazing humans. Let's say you and Joanie are a standout

761
00:42:56,681 --> 00:42:59,561
Speaker 1: because of the work that you do and the actions

762
00:42:59,601 --> 00:43:03,321
Speaker 1: that come from that and follow through from your work.

763
00:43:03,961 --> 00:43:06,201
Speaker 1: And there have been lots people in my space who

764
00:43:06,281 --> 00:43:08,721
Speaker 1: have brought lots of information to the table, and I'm

765
00:43:08,761 --> 00:43:11,801
Speaker 1: grateful for every single one of them. I do my best.

766
00:43:11,801 --> 00:43:13,601
Speaker 1: Every time I was on the podcast the lad Avnha's,

767
00:43:13,601 --> 00:43:15,961
Speaker 1: I always trying to remember everybody to thank because it

768
00:43:16,041 --> 00:43:18,361
Speaker 1: is important. You know, these people are taking time out

769
00:43:18,361 --> 00:43:21,681
Speaker 1: of their day to help a stranger. Essentially. I mean,

770
00:43:22,081 --> 00:43:25,241
Speaker 1: your situation is you are friends with these people. But

771
00:43:25,441 --> 00:43:28,681
Speaker 1: you know, until I met Joonie through the podcast, I

772
00:43:28,681 --> 00:43:30,801
Speaker 1: didn't know who Joni was, Like, we didn't know each other,

773
00:43:30,881 --> 00:43:33,521
Speaker 1: and you know, we were sort of launched into this.

774
00:43:33,601 --> 00:43:36,001
Speaker 1: Every time I talk to her now, she goes to me, so,

775
00:43:36,081 --> 00:43:38,841
Speaker 1: what's it been now, like seven years since I've been

776
00:43:38,881 --> 00:43:41,561
Speaker 1: working with you? And I'm like, I know, you keep

777
00:43:41,601 --> 00:43:44,001
Speaker 1: reminding me. I'm so sorry. I feel like I'm taking

778
00:43:44,041 --> 00:43:44,681
Speaker 1: all your time.

779
00:43:45,361 --> 00:43:48,001
Speaker 3: So seven years, Janie has been working with you?

780
00:43:48,881 --> 00:43:49,081
Speaker 4: Yeap?

781
00:43:49,481 --> 00:43:51,561
Speaker 3: What's changed in the last seven years?

782
00:43:51,921 --> 00:43:54,801
Speaker 4: Because I'm sitting here talking about something that happened in

783
00:43:54,841 --> 00:43:55,841
Speaker 4: August last year.

784
00:43:56,401 --> 00:43:57,201
Speaker 3: What's changed?

785
00:43:58,161 --> 00:44:00,841
Speaker 1: Lots has changed, but I in the space of what

786
00:44:00,921 --> 00:44:04,281
Speaker 1: we're talking about and the whole reason we're having these

787
00:44:04,321 --> 00:44:09,641
Speaker 1: conversations a podcast, not a lot has changed, sadly. So

788
00:44:10,481 --> 00:44:12,401
Speaker 1: it's not that that was the one thing.

789
00:44:12,241 --> 00:44:16,521
Speaker 4: That really blew my mind is that I've met a

790
00:44:16,601 --> 00:44:23,281
Speaker 4: lot of really amazing people through the Missing Space. It

791
00:44:23,361 --> 00:44:29,361
Speaker 4: was infuriating to hear all of these different experiences, stories

792
00:44:29,881 --> 00:44:35,561
Speaker 4: retelling of their experience with their particular cases. They all

793
00:44:35,681 --> 00:44:41,281
Speaker 4: sounded the same from an investigation point of view, it's

794
00:44:41,321 --> 00:44:47,161
Speaker 4: all the same, same but different. It's really it's just yeah,

795
00:44:47,201 --> 00:44:48,881
Speaker 4: it's really frustrating. It's really sad.

796
00:44:49,201 --> 00:44:51,681
Speaker 1: It's a struggle and it's a situation that we're in

797
00:44:52,361 --> 00:44:54,841
Speaker 1: that I'm hoping we can move forward. I mean it's

798
00:44:54,881 --> 00:44:57,361
Speaker 1: really great. I know you guys are going to be

799
00:44:57,401 --> 00:45:00,801
Speaker 1: doing a submission for the new South Walest parliamentary inquiry

800
00:45:00,841 --> 00:45:04,161
Speaker 1: as well, for anyone who's listening. I found out that

801
00:45:04,601 --> 00:45:06,801
Speaker 1: submission have to be done by the first of April,

802
00:45:06,841 --> 00:45:08,921
Speaker 1: So if you do have someone in your space that

803
00:45:08,961 --> 00:45:13,001
Speaker 1: you want to add to that submission for them to consider,

804
00:45:13,161 --> 00:45:16,121
Speaker 1: you need to get that in before the first of April.

805
00:45:16,281 --> 00:45:18,921
Speaker 1: And we were just talking before we started jumping on

806
00:45:19,001 --> 00:45:22,081
Speaker 1: having our conversation, weren't we about how much work is involved?

807
00:45:22,121 --> 00:45:24,561
Speaker 1: Like where do someone like me start in writing a

808
00:45:24,561 --> 00:45:28,081
Speaker 1: submission about what's happened in my journey Mum's been missing

809
00:45:28,121 --> 00:45:31,481
Speaker 1: twenty nine years this year? And what do I focus on?

810
00:45:31,561 --> 00:45:35,721
Speaker 1: Do I focus on people? Do I focus on the authorities?

811
00:45:35,761 --> 00:45:37,801
Speaker 1: Do I focus on what has been done? What I

812
00:45:37,841 --> 00:45:39,401
Speaker 1: focus on what hasn't been done?

813
00:45:40,241 --> 00:45:43,041
Speaker 4: Again, that's the problem, right, I don't think there's a

814
00:45:43,081 --> 00:45:46,801
Speaker 4: person in Australia that wouldn't know about your mum's case.

815
00:45:46,841 --> 00:45:48,601
Speaker 3: Now, why do you need to put in.

816
00:45:48,561 --> 00:45:53,361
Speaker 4: A submission, Like why can't you just write, Hi, I'm Sully,

817
00:45:54,121 --> 00:45:58,161
Speaker 4: this is my submission. You know everything Again, it's another

818
00:45:58,481 --> 00:46:00,041
Speaker 4: freaking hoop to jump through.

819
00:46:00,201 --> 00:46:03,401
Speaker 3: It's part of me gets it. The other part of

820
00:46:03,441 --> 00:46:06,921
Speaker 3: me is just infuriated by It's just why do.

821
00:46:06,921 --> 00:46:10,761
Speaker 4: We make things so difficult for families that are already suffering,

822
00:46:11,041 --> 00:46:12,441
Speaker 4: that have already suffered.

823
00:46:13,241 --> 00:46:15,041
Speaker 1: No one should have to go through it. But you know,

824
00:46:15,081 --> 00:46:17,801
Speaker 1: in my head, if it was me in control and

825
00:46:18,161 --> 00:46:21,681
Speaker 1: I had a chance to sort of express my thoughts

826
00:46:21,721 --> 00:46:26,321
Speaker 1: and feelings on it, I would actually say to those

827
00:46:26,401 --> 00:46:29,521
Speaker 1: who have a missing person or murdered person who want

828
00:46:29,601 --> 00:46:32,921
Speaker 1: to have a submission put in about the case of

829
00:46:33,041 --> 00:46:36,641
Speaker 1: their person that they're talking about. If we write a submission,

830
00:46:36,641 --> 00:46:39,601
Speaker 1: and I write like a five hundred page submission or

831
00:46:39,641 --> 00:46:41,721
Speaker 1: a five page submission, someone's got to sit down and

832
00:46:41,761 --> 00:46:44,121
Speaker 1: read it, and they've got to process it. They've got

833
00:46:44,121 --> 00:46:47,121
Speaker 1: to take out the tone, they've got to understand the

834
00:46:47,681 --> 00:46:50,921
Speaker 1: with empathy and kindness as to what this person's actually

835
00:46:51,321 --> 00:46:54,401
Speaker 1: going through, what they've been through. It might actually be

836
00:46:54,401 --> 00:46:59,041
Speaker 1: better and more efficient for the people if they have

837
00:46:59,201 --> 00:47:01,001
Speaker 1: the ability to do it as well. I mean this

838
00:47:01,041 --> 00:47:03,841
Speaker 1: comes down to that. But for me personally, I'm very

839
00:47:03,841 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: happy to sit on a stad and actually tell them

840
00:47:06,761 --> 00:47:10,641
Speaker 1: in my words, in my voice, how I'm feeling, what's happened,

841
00:47:10,641 --> 00:47:13,841
Speaker 1: what are the key things that have actually troubled me

842
00:47:14,121 --> 00:47:17,321
Speaker 1: and my family through this process, and let them hear

843
00:47:17,361 --> 00:47:20,321
Speaker 1: my voice rather than giving them a piece of paper

844
00:47:20,921 --> 00:47:23,401
Speaker 1: on a form where I have to do attachments for

845
00:47:23,841 --> 00:47:26,761
Speaker 1: certain different things, and who's even reading those is going

846
00:47:26,801 --> 00:47:30,241
Speaker 1: to be the question. But I'm grateful for the opportunity.

847
00:47:30,281 --> 00:47:32,401
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, but I think it's a very

848
00:47:32,761 --> 00:47:36,081
Speaker 1: challenging thing. I'm finding it quite challenging now to find

849
00:47:36,121 --> 00:47:39,721
Speaker 1: the time to sit down and write the submissions the

850
00:47:39,721 --> 00:47:41,961
Speaker 1: way I want to. I keep saying to Jonie and

851
00:47:42,081 --> 00:47:45,001
Speaker 1: Sherry and Renee and Jackie, I don't know what to

852
00:47:45,041 --> 00:47:47,521
Speaker 1: focus on, Like, I'm really confused as to what I

853
00:47:47,561 --> 00:47:50,841
Speaker 1: should be doing, because once again, there's no guidebook. There

854
00:47:50,881 --> 00:47:53,081
Speaker 1: is no guidebook as to what to do, how to

855
00:47:53,121 --> 00:47:55,641
Speaker 1: do it, when to do it, the why, and what

856
00:47:55,761 --> 00:47:58,961
Speaker 1: to do after the fact. So you know, I wanted

857
00:47:58,961 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: to ask you how are you doing? Because you've been

858
00:48:01,481 --> 00:48:05,881
Speaker 1: through the washing machine, you know, multiple times last couple

859
00:48:05,881 --> 00:48:08,641
Speaker 1: of years and since we've met. I just can't believe

860
00:48:08,681 --> 00:48:10,761
Speaker 1: what you've had to endure as well. So I just

861
00:48:10,801 --> 00:48:13,161
Speaker 1: wanted to check in, are you okay.

862
00:48:13,321 --> 00:48:14,121
Speaker 3: I'm doing all right.

863
00:48:14,561 --> 00:48:20,041
Speaker 4: I think I just keep going, which is probably not

864
00:48:20,081 --> 00:48:23,561
Speaker 4: the best thing. But anybody that knows me knows that

865
00:48:23,601 --> 00:48:26,241
Speaker 4: I go one hundred mile an hour all the time.

866
00:48:26,721 --> 00:48:27,321
Speaker 3: That's just me.

867
00:48:27,801 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 4: But you know, it's little things like this that they

868
00:48:32,481 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 4: can become a little bit overwhelming for me. It's like, well,

869
00:48:37,481 --> 00:48:41,761
Speaker 4: do I spend an entire day putting together a submission

870
00:48:41,961 --> 00:48:43,801
Speaker 4: which I need to do and I want to do,

871
00:48:44,481 --> 00:48:47,481
Speaker 4: but it takes twenty four hours away from my family

872
00:48:48,041 --> 00:48:52,321
Speaker 4: from investigating. Well, we got lucky and we were able

873
00:48:52,361 --> 00:48:54,841
Speaker 4: to locate Toby in a very short time.

874
00:48:55,721 --> 00:48:58,641
Speaker 3: Investigations take time. It's a lot of work.

875
00:48:58,721 --> 00:49:01,641
Speaker 4: There were nights where I would my husband would go

876
00:49:01,681 --> 00:49:03,001
Speaker 4: to bed and I'd be like, oh, come to bed

877
00:49:03,041 --> 00:49:05,401
Speaker 4: in an hour, and then I'd look out win down

878
00:49:05,401 --> 00:49:08,201
Speaker 4: and go, shit, the son is coming up. I'm going

879
00:49:08,201 --> 00:49:09,601
Speaker 4: to get up and go I'm going to go to work.

880
00:49:10,561 --> 00:49:13,801
Speaker 4: We shouldn't be doing that. So if we are going

881
00:49:13,841 --> 00:49:16,241
Speaker 4: to be doing it. It needs to change. That that's

882
00:49:16,441 --> 00:49:20,481
Speaker 4: I think that's what drives me the most. It has

883
00:49:20,721 --> 00:49:24,601
Speaker 4: it actually has to change. I really do believe that

884
00:49:24,681 --> 00:49:25,241
Speaker 4: there are.

885
00:49:25,961 --> 00:49:27,561
Speaker 3: Resources out there.

886
00:49:27,681 --> 00:49:34,321
Speaker 4: We may not carry a badge, but retired detectives, private investigators,

887
00:49:35,241 --> 00:49:37,321
Speaker 4: a girl and a laptop or a girl on a

888
00:49:37,321 --> 00:49:40,841
Speaker 4: mobile phone, we can make a difference and we have.

889
00:49:41,601 --> 00:49:44,161
Speaker 1: And just something to add there for the listeners like

890
00:49:44,721 --> 00:49:48,121
Speaker 1: to put into perspective what Mindy's saying there is that

891
00:49:48,841 --> 00:49:50,721
Speaker 1: I can tell you from our point of view with

892
00:49:50,841 --> 00:49:54,401
Speaker 1: Joanie and I, we will find something and it can

893
00:49:54,441 --> 00:49:57,201
Speaker 1: be quite significant, a name of a person, something that

894
00:49:57,241 --> 00:50:01,561
Speaker 1: we found, information that someone has told us that they

895
00:50:01,561 --> 00:50:05,841
Speaker 1: don't necessarily feel comfortable telling the police, and that right

896
00:50:05,881 --> 00:50:08,281
Speaker 1: so we're very trusting. We want to tell everybody, you know,

897
00:50:08,361 --> 00:50:10,761
Speaker 1: we don't if you tell us not to say anything,

898
00:50:10,801 --> 00:50:12,841
Speaker 1: we won't, like wear a closed book. And it's just

899
00:50:12,881 --> 00:50:15,961
Speaker 1: between us. And I'm very lucky that I've got some

900
00:50:16,001 --> 00:50:18,801
Speaker 1: really solid people in that space that I can do

901
00:50:18,841 --> 00:50:20,881
Speaker 1: that with and I trust them, you know with all

902
00:50:20,881 --> 00:50:23,641
Speaker 1: my heart that they're not going to release that information

903
00:50:24,281 --> 00:50:26,321
Speaker 1: or go and tell a newspaper or something like that,

904
00:50:26,401 --> 00:50:28,881
Speaker 1: because once the case gets big, those sorts of things

905
00:50:28,881 --> 00:50:32,561
Speaker 1: are at risk, right. But I think if we could

906
00:50:33,401 --> 00:50:36,961
Speaker 1: utilize the skill set of these people like the Mindy's

907
00:50:36,961 --> 00:50:39,841
Speaker 1: and the Jonies of the world, and the Sherrys of

908
00:50:39,841 --> 00:50:42,801
Speaker 1: the world, and the Renee's and Jackie's, like, these people

909
00:50:42,881 --> 00:50:45,681
Speaker 1: are working so hard behind the scenes. I think people

910
00:50:45,761 --> 00:50:48,841
Speaker 1: have no idea that you're staying up to all hours

911
00:50:48,841 --> 00:50:50,961
Speaker 1: of the night that I know Jonie's doing the same.

912
00:50:51,001 --> 00:50:53,321
Speaker 1: I know the girls are doing the same because they're

913
00:50:53,361 --> 00:50:56,721
Speaker 1: trying to work out and get all of these connectors together.

914
00:50:56,961 --> 00:50:59,441
Speaker 1: And then what happens, guys is we hand all that

915
00:51:00,001 --> 00:51:03,321
Speaker 1: information over to the police and they go, thanks for that,

916
00:51:04,361 --> 00:51:08,001
Speaker 1: we can't tell you anything. So we'll keep that information.

917
00:51:08,081 --> 00:51:09,921
Speaker 1: We'll take all your hard work and we'll put it

918
00:51:09,961 --> 00:51:12,161
Speaker 1: over here and we'll put it on file, but we're

919
00:51:12,201 --> 00:51:14,721
Speaker 1: not actually going to give you any information about if

920
00:51:14,721 --> 00:51:18,081
Speaker 1: we look into it, what we find. So the amount

921
00:51:18,081 --> 00:51:20,681
Speaker 1: of emails at Joanie and I have done where And

922
00:51:20,761 --> 00:51:23,121
Speaker 1: I'm going back to her recently going did you hear

923
00:51:23,161 --> 00:51:25,401
Speaker 1: back from that? She's like, no, I haven't heard a thing.

924
00:51:25,841 --> 00:51:28,881
Speaker 1: So that is the frustration as well. So we do

925
00:51:28,961 --> 00:51:32,281
Speaker 1: all this work and we need the police to actually

926
00:51:32,721 --> 00:51:33,961
Speaker 1: be able to help us.

927
00:51:34,121 --> 00:51:38,481
Speaker 4: With minimal resources, right, Like I know for us, we

928
00:51:38,561 --> 00:51:41,361
Speaker 4: don't have all the information that they do. If I

929
00:51:41,401 --> 00:51:44,561
Speaker 4: had all the information, like, we might just be able

930
00:51:44,601 --> 00:51:47,481
Speaker 4: to find something that has been overlooked.

931
00:51:47,561 --> 00:51:49,641
Speaker 1: And it just comes down to that because even when

932
00:51:49,681 --> 00:51:53,281
Speaker 1: I was reading Mum's brief of evidence for the coroner

933
00:51:53,681 --> 00:51:55,681
Speaker 1: and I'm reading things, there was two things that I

934
00:51:55,881 --> 00:52:00,201
Speaker 1: found a date which became very significant and a location

935
00:52:00,361 --> 00:52:03,841
Speaker 1: which became very significant. And I remember reading the police going, hey,

936
00:52:04,601 --> 00:52:06,801
Speaker 1: so I just saw this on this document and it

937
00:52:06,881 --> 00:52:08,961
Speaker 1: says this on here. Did you see that? And I said, oh, no,

938
00:52:09,041 --> 00:52:11,961
Speaker 1: I must have missed that, And that's exactly what you're

939
00:52:12,001 --> 00:52:16,801
Speaker 1: talking about. So that happened twice what And it's because missing,

940
00:52:17,121 --> 00:52:21,161
Speaker 1: Like to be fair, the document is this thick. So

941
00:52:21,841 --> 00:52:25,241
Speaker 1: unless you're passionate, like the daughter of a missing person

942
00:52:25,601 --> 00:52:29,081
Speaker 1: or the friend with a murdered friend who's trying their

943
00:52:29,121 --> 00:52:32,481
Speaker 1: best to help, you know, unless you have that deep passion,

944
00:52:32,881 --> 00:52:36,361
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to read every single detail on

945
00:52:36,441 --> 00:52:40,201
Speaker 1: every document because that's what we end up living life like.

946
00:52:40,321 --> 00:52:45,561
Speaker 1: We're going through every single word, every single error, every date.

947
00:52:46,601 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: What they're saying you should see my documents. Like Joni

948
00:52:50,001 --> 00:52:51,881
Speaker 1: always laughs at me because I've got post it notes

949
00:52:51,921 --> 00:52:55,281
Speaker 1: everywhere and little scribbles all over everything. But it's a

950
00:52:55,321 --> 00:52:58,841
Speaker 1: case of doing that and unfortunately the police, in their defense,

951
00:52:58,921 --> 00:53:01,521
Speaker 1: don't have the time to sit there and do that

952
00:53:01,641 --> 00:53:03,801
Speaker 1: at that level, but we do. So this is what

953
00:53:03,841 --> 00:53:07,001
Speaker 1: I'm saying. They should work with us better and allow

954
00:53:07,121 --> 00:53:10,601
Speaker 1: us to help better and keep us going by letting

955
00:53:10,681 --> 00:53:13,041
Speaker 1: us know you know the outcomes of some of the

956
00:53:13,081 --> 00:53:15,121
Speaker 1: things that we are finding, and that you know whether

957
00:53:15,161 --> 00:53:18,441
Speaker 1: it's relevant or not. I will say the team helping me.

958
00:53:19,001 --> 00:53:21,561
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of contact with them. There's

959
00:53:21,561 --> 00:53:23,321
Speaker 1: been a lot of times where they've been on leave.

960
00:53:23,441 --> 00:53:25,881
Speaker 1: But you know, from time to time they do tell

961
00:53:25,921 --> 00:53:28,321
Speaker 1: me when I push the envelope and say, hey, what

962
00:53:28,401 --> 00:53:31,841
Speaker 1: happened with you know, the skull under the house? You know,

963
00:53:31,921 --> 00:53:34,281
Speaker 1: and those sorts of things. I do get a little

964
00:53:34,321 --> 00:53:37,081
Speaker 1: bit of feedback back from that, which is helpful, right

965
00:53:37,161 --> 00:53:39,241
Speaker 1: because I can tick that box off and go Okay,

966
00:53:39,761 --> 00:53:42,361
Speaker 1: they've looked into it. They don't tell me much, but

967
00:53:42,481 --> 00:53:45,281
Speaker 1: I know that that's been checked and I.

968
00:53:45,201 --> 00:53:49,361
Speaker 4: Appreciate that there are some things that just can't be

969
00:53:50,401 --> 00:53:55,081
Speaker 4: shared or discussed. I get that, but there are people

970
00:53:55,121 --> 00:53:59,561
Speaker 4: out there that can look at certain things, certain scenarios

971
00:54:00,201 --> 00:54:01,481
Speaker 4: with a different lens.

972
00:54:02,241 --> 00:54:03,121
Speaker 3: People are happier.

973
00:54:03,961 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 4: Some people are talking to someone who is not in uniform.

974
00:54:09,441 --> 00:54:14,001
Speaker 4: It doesn't mean that the information is not correct. It

975
00:54:14,121 --> 00:54:17,121
Speaker 4: just means that that person feels more comfortable sharing information

976
00:54:18,521 --> 00:54:19,601
Speaker 4: with someone.

977
00:54:19,721 --> 00:54:20,721
Speaker 3: Who doesn't have a badge.

978
00:54:21,241 --> 00:54:24,241
Speaker 1: And their information is valuable regardless, and it should be

979
00:54:24,241 --> 00:54:28,041
Speaker 1: taken seriously but correct it becomes problematic, Like we've had

980
00:54:28,041 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: a few people where we've sort of encouraged them and said, well,

981
00:54:30,561 --> 00:54:32,601
Speaker 1: you know, that would be really helpful to tell the police,

982
00:54:32,641 --> 00:54:35,241
Speaker 1: and they just haven't quite got there yet. But that's

983
00:54:35,281 --> 00:54:37,281
Speaker 1: a decision for them to make, not for me to

984
00:54:37,361 --> 00:54:40,081
Speaker 1: make or for Joni to make. And we've been very

985
00:54:40,961 --> 00:54:42,801
Speaker 1: much stand by our word when we come to those

986
00:54:42,801 --> 00:54:45,681
Speaker 1: sorts of situations, even though it's hard for me because

987
00:54:45,801 --> 00:54:50,121
Speaker 1: I'm desperately trying to find my mum and desperately want

988
00:54:50,641 --> 00:54:53,281
Speaker 1: anyone who knows anything to share it with the police.

989
00:54:53,401 --> 00:54:56,321
Speaker 1: You know, I've recently just asked if we could up

990
00:54:56,401 --> 00:54:58,961
Speaker 1: Mum's reward to a million dollars because I feel like

991
00:54:59,081 --> 00:55:01,361
Speaker 1: time is really of the essence right now, Like if

992
00:55:01,401 --> 00:55:03,681
Speaker 1: we're going to have anyone come forward with information. We

993
00:55:03,801 --> 00:55:05,961
Speaker 1: need to be doing it right now, not in another

994
00:55:06,001 --> 00:55:09,841
Speaker 1: twenty nine years. It needs to happen now. But I

995
00:55:09,841 --> 00:55:13,681
Speaker 1: will keep everyone posted on that. I want to thank

996
00:55:13,721 --> 00:55:16,001
Speaker 1: you for your time today. I know you're super busy.

997
00:55:16,401 --> 00:55:20,321
Speaker 1: I wanted to say, you know you now have experience

998
00:55:20,441 --> 00:55:23,121
Speaker 1: firsthand and having a missing person in your space, and

999
00:55:23,161 --> 00:55:26,801
Speaker 1: you miraculously brought him home. He's in a safe space

1000
00:55:26,841 --> 00:55:29,401
Speaker 1: now and he's getting help now, and you've given him

1001
00:55:29,521 --> 00:55:33,761
Speaker 1: options for if he ever feels in a similar situation again.

1002
00:55:33,841 --> 00:55:36,441
Speaker 1: He's got options. He knows he can do other things

1003
00:55:36,481 --> 00:55:39,641
Speaker 1: now to be safe and the stress I guess of

1004
00:55:39,681 --> 00:55:43,121
Speaker 1: what happens when someone does walk out. He's a very

1005
00:55:43,241 --> 00:55:46,081
Speaker 1: lucky man to have you guys in his corner. I'm

1006
00:55:46,121 --> 00:55:49,601
Speaker 1: hopeful that by sharing my journey to find Mum and

1007
00:55:49,641 --> 00:55:53,081
Speaker 1: now having all these amazingly brave souls who joined me

1008
00:55:53,841 --> 00:55:56,961
Speaker 1: on the Missing Matter podcast sharing their journeys, it is

1009
00:55:57,081 --> 00:55:59,881
Speaker 1: helpful having a better understanding of what happens when someone

1010
00:55:59,921 --> 00:56:03,241
Speaker 1: goes missing and what hurdles you may have to encounter

1011
00:56:03,561 --> 00:56:07,721
Speaker 1: with authorities and the like when finding somebody that you love.

1012
00:56:09,001 --> 00:56:10,161
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming.

1013
00:56:09,881 --> 00:56:11,881
Speaker 3: On no, thank you for having me.

1014
00:56:12,241 --> 00:56:15,721
Speaker 1: I finish these podcasts all the time by asking why

1015
00:56:15,761 --> 00:56:20,361
Speaker 1: the missing matter? Can you tell me why Toby and

1016
00:56:20,521 --> 00:56:21,601
Speaker 1: Rachelle matter to you?

1017
00:56:22,481 --> 00:56:27,921
Speaker 4: Oh? Look, they mutter the most. But for me personally,

1018
00:56:28,041 --> 00:56:30,801
Speaker 4: I like to support the underdog. If I care, or

1019
00:56:30,801 --> 00:56:34,121
Speaker 4: I care deeply, and I think if there's anything that

1020
00:56:34,161 --> 00:56:39,201
Speaker 4: you can do to help, you should, without question. That's

1021
00:56:39,281 --> 00:56:42,641
Speaker 4: just made. If you can do it, do it, because

1022
00:56:42,681 --> 00:56:43,601
Speaker 4: you might just.

1023
00:56:43,561 --> 00:56:44,361
Speaker 3: Be the difference.

1024
00:56:45,081 --> 00:56:52,681
Speaker 4: That's yeah, every person mutters, I don't care, race, gender, age,

1025
00:56:52,921 --> 00:56:58,681
Speaker 4: disability doesn't matter. Everybody should be searched for, cared for,

1026
00:56:59,081 --> 00:57:03,801
Speaker 4: treated in the same way. Like we've got to do

1027
00:57:03,921 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 4: better people. We have to do better for each other.

1028
00:57:08,681 --> 00:57:13,081
Speaker 4: So if you can, you should, that's it. Just be

1029
00:57:13,161 --> 00:57:16,841
Speaker 4: a good person. Don't do shooty things, love and care

1030
00:57:16,881 --> 00:57:20,601
Speaker 4: for each other because everybody is fighting a battle.

1031
00:57:20,681 --> 00:57:24,241
Speaker 3: It's just you don't know what that is and how

1032
00:57:24,281 --> 00:57:24,881
Speaker 3: bad it is.

1033
00:57:33,121 --> 00:57:35,761
Speaker 8: He received a phone call at five twenty two pm

1034
00:57:35,841 --> 00:57:40,001
Speaker 8: on the thirteenth of December twenty seventeen with Mums saying

1035
00:57:40,041 --> 00:57:43,441
Speaker 8: that someone was trying to kidnap her and they wanted

1036
00:57:43,481 --> 00:57:44,321
Speaker 8: her passport.

1037
00:57:46,161 --> 00:57:49,761
Speaker 1: The chief police for the mystery said that she's.

1038
00:57:49,561 --> 00:57:52,561
Speaker 8: Just wandered into the jungle and there's bananas and mangoes

1039
00:57:52,561 --> 00:57:54,721
Speaker 8: in there. So give it a couple of days, she'll

1040
00:57:54,761 --> 00:57:58,521
Speaker 8: be fine and then she'll come back out. They say

1041
00:57:58,601 --> 00:58:02,601
Speaker 8: time heals the wounds, but to me, time just opens

1042
00:58:02,601 --> 00:58:05,121
Speaker 8: them up even more because it makes you miss and

1043
00:58:05,241 --> 00:58:05,721
Speaker 8: a lot more