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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I have no plan today. I just
Speaker 1: showed up talking about breakfast and concussions over brackins.
Speaker 3: Great. I love no plans.
Speaker 4: Are we live?
Speaker 3: I'm recording? Do you want to be live? Do you
Speaker 3: want to be live already?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know, I don't know if,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm ready to be live.
Speaker 3: The audience peak behind the curtain of what the hell
Speaker 3: happens before we hit the big red button every time.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to put this. This is the start
Speaker 3: this is your official introduction. Hey, Bobby, welcome here.
Speaker 1: Hi, how are you. I'm okay, I'm all right. God
Speaker 1: that introduction was like, I felt like I was channeling
Speaker 1: Andy Kaufman. Doesn't even know who Andy Kauffman is really
Speaker 1: so Andy Kaufman, he was just a brilliant comedian, but
Speaker 1: he didn't consider him a self comedian, consider himself an entertainer.
Speaker 1: He probably did one of the best Elvis impersonations ever.
Speaker 1: He was Elvis's face for Elvis impersonator. But he was
Speaker 1: on Saturday Night Live and he used to just did
Speaker 1: you ever hear of a sitcom in the United States
Speaker 1: called Taxi It?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I have heard of it.
Speaker 1: So the foreign guy Lotga was Andy Kaufman. I think
Speaker 1: Andy Kaufman was a genius. He used to just bomb
Speaker 1: on stage by doing the weirdest stuff, and some people
Speaker 1: consider himself indulgent. Other people considered him genius. I've fallen
Speaker 1: into that he was a genius category. Jim Carrey actually
Speaker 1: played Andy Kaufman in a movie, which I think it's
Speaker 1: very hard to capture Andy Kaufman. But if you're gonna
Speaker 1: like cast somebody to do that, Jim Carrey is definitely
Speaker 1: the cast.
Speaker 3: Who is your favorite comedians and why?
Speaker 1: Oh you know, it's so wow, it's so hard. I
Speaker 1: think let's start off with Eddie is Hard for his
Speaker 1: ability to create observational and historical narrative into this bumbling,
Speaker 1: but witty and deeply insightful presentation. I think Dave Chappelle
Speaker 1: for his incredibly deep social commentary and layers of sensitivity
Speaker 1: disguised as complete insensitivity, but you could tell that guy
Speaker 1: is a very deep thinker and feel or funny story
Speaker 1: with Dave Chappelle, my wife got into an argument with
Speaker 1: him in a comedy club one night over Nigerian geography. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe a story for another day. I
Speaker 1: love Jim Carr for his Jimmy Carr for his delivery,
Speaker 1: his timing, and his ability to think on his feet.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if he really thinks on his
Speaker 1: feet like that or he's just established so many patterns
Speaker 1: from incredible preparation, so somebody could say something off the cuff,
Speaker 1: like when he invites the audience to heckle him and
Speaker 1: you can tell he's having a really great time and
Speaker 1: he's just brilliant and ruthless and hilarious. That could be
Speaker 1: thinking on your feet. I think what it more likely
Speaker 1: is is tens of thousands of hours of preparation. So
Speaker 1: he just has a pattern. There's just like barely anything
Speaker 1: you can say that he's not prepared for, even if
Speaker 1: he has no way to prepare for that exact heckle.
Speaker 1: So Michael McIntyre. Michael McIntyre for his one his physical
Speaker 1: comedy and his observational comedy is just amplified. It's hilarious
Speaker 1: and it's just it's light like he can make light
Speaker 1: of the simplest day to day thing. I just I
Speaker 1: love Michael McIntyre. He makes me happy listen to him.
Speaker 1: There's plenty of other people in that category, some of
Speaker 1: who I probably should not mention. I like from your Country,
Speaker 1: Jim Jefferies. I think he's an outright legend. I just
Speaker 1: love his delivery as well. So there's quite a few
Speaker 1: of them. What about you? Who are some of your
Speaker 1: favorite comedians and why.
Speaker 3: I love Jimmy Carr and I think I've talked about
Speaker 3: it before with you. I used to I couldn't stand
Speaker 3: him before, and I'd given him no chance what's over.
Speaker 3: But I couldn't stand because.
Speaker 1: He didn't pay his taxes. Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Love Ricky Gervais. I love, love, love Eliza Schlesinger. I
Speaker 3: think you say her last name like that. I saw
Speaker 3: her when she was out here in Australia. I've watched
Speaker 3: her endlessly online and that was such a brilliant show,
Speaker 3: such a brilliant show. But I feel like I've gotten
Speaker 3: I've gotten into comedy a lot more the last couple
Speaker 3: of years, and I feel comedy for me has shifted.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if it's just a me thing.
Speaker 3: It's just I listen differently or who I'm listening to
Speaker 3: or how I listen, or I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: because of my relationship with speaking and creating ideas and
Speaker 3: starting to drill down in that that I'm also seeing
Speaker 3: and learning patterns that align with comedy. And I don't know,
Speaker 3: something has really shifted for me. So it interests me
Speaker 3: how our relationship with our humor changes based on who
Speaker 3: we are, what we know, what we But we think
Speaker 3: it's just this simple, Oh someone's funny or they're not.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Is it comedy that's changed or is it us that's changing?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, like I'm just becoming old. So I
Speaker 1: can't get the jokes because I'm not quick enough anymore.
Speaker 1: So I'll watch a comedy show like that was shit,
Speaker 1: and then three days later I'm just I can't stop laughing.
Speaker 3: But sometimes it's like, sometimes there's an element of absolute
Speaker 3: magic that that can't come from just the structure. It
Speaker 3: has to come from the hours and hours they put
Speaker 3: in on the ground, so that their ability to connect
Speaker 3: and create an energy with an audience meets the thing
Speaker 3: that comes out of their mouth and the timing and
Speaker 3: the thing. I think it's phenomenal.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that is why. And first of all,
Speaker 1: I cannot believe I did not mention Ricky Gervais for
Speaker 1: so many reasons. The man is just a genius, not
Speaker 1: just on stage but off stage. The things he's produced
Speaker 1: are just legendary. Life after Death was probably one of
Speaker 1: the most poignant and layered the best things. Oh the
Speaker 1: after life, I'm sorry, life after death, the after life anyway. See,
Speaker 1: this is this is why I don't get comedy. It's
Speaker 1: just my brain is just like it's just I don't
Speaker 1: sit there watching comedy.
Speaker 4: Yes, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was one of the best things
Speaker 1: I have ever seen in my life. And I've seen
Speaker 1: some really good stuff, So I so honorable mention definitely
Speaker 1: Ricky Gervais. But your point there is why you'll never
Speaker 1: catch me criticizing a comedian, Like there are some people
Speaker 1: I'm just like, Okay, I don't Stephen Wright. I think
Speaker 1: Stephen Wright, he's been around for a really long time.
Speaker 1: When it comes to dead pan, one line delivery, a
Speaker 1: lot of people have like imitated him, imitation some serious
Speaker 1: form of flattery. Some people think stalking is, but I
Speaker 1: don't think that's correct. But I I'll never criticize a
Speaker 1: comedian even if it's like, Okay, you know, just him
Speaker 1: or I just don't resonate with them. For me, But
Speaker 1: if somebody, if you're watching a Netflix or you're watching
Speaker 1: a YouTube show or they're on TV, you are looking
Speaker 1: at an unimaginable level of preparation, outright failure. They have
Speaker 1: completely died on stage epically so many times. A lot
Speaker 1: of them still do. So where my wife got into
Speaker 1: an argument with Dave Chappelle, which was mortifying for me
Speaker 1: because it's like I wasn't what was mortifying for hers.
Speaker 1: I was not on her side like Dave Chappelle's up
Speaker 1: on stage. I was like, do not embarrass me in
Speaker 1: front of Dave Chappelle. Right. So, this particular comedy club
Speaker 1: is where a lot of a lot of a listers
Speaker 1: would just rock up and they would test out new material.
Speaker 1: So they're coming, oh, can I get on stage? Or
Speaker 1: what do you GUNA say? No? Right, so, and they
Speaker 1: would try this material and so much of it is
Speaker 1: just horrible because they just wrote the joke like three
Speaker 1: days ago and they haven't practiced it. And it's like,
Speaker 1: you're watching this. It's like a year from now. This
Speaker 1: is going to have people in bits on their next special,
Speaker 1: but it's going.
Speaker 4: To be so much work that they.
Speaker 1: Put in, not just memorizing the jokes, but the timing,
Speaker 1: the delivery, the tweaking. Oh well that joke kind of worked,
Speaker 1: but it didn't work like this. Let me try a different.
Speaker 1: It's like what a lot of them are reading off
Speaker 1: of paper. They're like looking checking out their jokes are there.
Speaker 1: It's like wow. So I think to be a comedian,
Speaker 1: to be somewhat of a successful comedian, that's extremely admirable.
Speaker 3: And you have to get really okay with being disliked
Speaker 3: and being like you get criticized so much, so many
Speaker 3: people it blows my mind when I look in the
Speaker 3: comment section where people are just adamant to stacks on
Speaker 3: to a comedian and be like, they're not even funny.
Speaker 3: They're not even funny. It's like, dude, this person has
Speaker 3: millions of followers and makes millions of dollars because they're funny.
Speaker 3: But you, as one person who's obviously taken offense of
Speaker 3: some sort, I think that everyone cares what you think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do a five minute open makenate and then get
Speaker 1: back with your criticism and commentary. But that's when everything,
Speaker 1: especially with comedy. Bill Burr is another one who over
Speaker 1: the years, I've become a massive fan of massive fan
Speaker 1: of his comedy and just just the place where it's
Speaker 1: coming from. And I don't care they some people are
Speaker 1: going to resonate with that. Some people are gonna hate
Speaker 1: me for that, you know, like when you're saying, like
Speaker 1: you got to get used to everybody dislays you and
Speaker 1: just this vitriol and criticism, and it's like, yeah, it's horrid,
Speaker 1: and it wears on me sometimes to be fair, but
Speaker 1: for the most part, I just know I have to
Speaker 1: keep going in spite of how many people dislike me.
Speaker 3: So I can see have you seen Drew Lynch? Familiar
Speaker 3: with him? I love him, I follow him, and he's
Speaker 3: getting a huge following. And he I think that he
Speaker 3: first started his career back on something like America's Got Talent.
Speaker 3: He went on a talent show and he stutters. He
Speaker 3: had a really bad stutter at the time, and now
Speaker 3: he's overcome that, so he's brilliant on stage. But recently
Speaker 3: he put up a reel where he was about to
Speaker 3: go out for dinner with friends and he had this
Speaker 3: enormous attack that was the most vulnerable. I watched it
Speaker 3: probably three times and I sent it to people. It
Speaker 3: was the most vulnerable. Honest, this is happening, and I
Speaker 3: feel really embarrassed, and it's also kind of funny, and
Speaker 3: I just want to show you you and this is
Speaker 3: how I feel, and of goosebumps thinking about it. It
Speaker 3: was so brave. But I love I love comedians that
Speaker 3: can be really funny and then just really real.
Speaker 1: H I mean, I think to be a comedian, obviously
Speaker 1: you have to be extremely focused, you have to be
Speaker 1: extremely intelligent, but I think there's also a sensitivity there.
Speaker 1: I think there's a strong emotional intelligence and I'm not
Speaker 1: saying this is with all comedians obviously, but sometimes I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of trials and internal pain that
Speaker 1: you're channeling through your comedy, and it's a way to
Speaker 1: kind of connect to other people, you know. And then
Speaker 1: and of course there's this, there's this like working out
Speaker 1: your stuff in front of an audience by giving something
Speaker 1: to them and getting some acceptance back from that audience.
Speaker 1: So I think that there's so many layers, like comedians
Speaker 1: are a special group of people for me personally, Oh god,
Speaker 1: what was I think Britain's got Britain's got talent? Like
Speaker 1: all those shows are amazing. I used to just oh,
Speaker 1: my wife, you's just watch episode after episode. I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh god, this is painful. But think about this for
Speaker 1: a second. How many you'll resonate with this? How many
Speaker 1: superbly talented people who are as gifted, hardworking, deserving as
Speaker 1: any household name would have been a nobody just because
Speaker 1: they did not have the vehicle, and then these shows
Speaker 1: put them on stage and it's like the world can
Speaker 1: see WHOA, this person's got something that's amazing, Like Britain
Speaker 1: got talent moves me and Simon Cowell I think I
Speaker 1: think Simon Cowell is a legend because you can tell
Speaker 1: as much as he does not have any patience to
Speaker 1: humor fools. On the other end of that, you can
Speaker 1: tell how someone who is deeply invested in hardworking and
Speaker 1: brings something real to an audience moves him emotionally. You
Speaker 1: can see it. You know, he's not like a warm
Speaker 1: and overtly fuzzy type of person. It's not like a
Speaker 1: walking Hallmark card. You can see like how it makes
Speaker 1: an impression on him. So I think, like so many
Speaker 1: people have been brought into the world that we don't
Speaker 1: even know about. I love those shows.
Speaker 3: I love Hannah Gadsby too. Have you seen her Hannah
Speaker 3: and Douglas. Have you seen her shows on Netflix?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: No, godspy really no, Tazzy too. She's a tazzy. Oh
Speaker 3: that's non binary the most But go and watch Hannah
Speaker 3: on Netflix. It is brilliant, confronting. It is this comedy
Speaker 3: show where they lead into this topic of trauma and
Speaker 3: shit and it just silences the audience. But yeah, bloody
Speaker 3: love that show and when and then their second one
Speaker 3: called Douglas. At the beginning, they describe exact all the
Speaker 3: components of the show and I love this right, it's
Speaker 3: really clever. They're very clever. What they're going to talk about,
Speaker 3: what we're going to go through, how they're going to
Speaker 3: make it land, all of the little bits and pieces,
Speaker 3: and then at the end, and that's exactly how it
Speaker 3: plays out, and it's just bloody clever. Like I think
Speaker 3: that I'm intrigued by how cleverly shows are put together
Speaker 3: and how much thought it's not just and how it's
Speaker 3: not always just humor. It's sometimes it's it's funny, you Like,
Speaker 3: I find myself laughing just because I'm like recognizing that
Speaker 3: they've done that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. It's genius. I mean, I haven't seen
Speaker 1: this particular performer. I haven't seen a lot of performers
Speaker 1: you're mentioning. It makes me feel like I don't watch
Speaker 1: Netflix enough.
Speaker 3: Well, and Ursula Calson hilarious. She's hilarious. I saw her
Speaker 3: at the comedy FESTIV want to see it recently. I
Speaker 3: didn't used to know any comedians except for what's his name?
Speaker 3: He's so funny. Cayle Baron. Tell me you know Cayle Baron.
Speaker 3: He's the best. No treasure, I don't know him. Oh god,
Speaker 3: I'm going to send yourself with him.
Speaker 1: I probably do. I've probably seen some of these people.
Speaker 1: I just don't know their names because I do watch
Speaker 1: a lot of comedy clips.
Speaker 3: You only did comedy once, didn't you. Did you do
Speaker 3: a stage like comedy just a few times?
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a couple of open mic notes. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember you were having a go at me like a
Speaker 1: couple of podcasts ago. You were like, you could really
Speaker 1: be funny if you've made the decision and worked at it.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, and I've been working at it, and
Speaker 1: like people will been telling me, whoever told you, that's
Speaker 1: definitely wrong. You're not getting any better at this, like
Speaker 1: you should. If you could do literally anything else, just
Speaker 1: I would try that, like maybe finger painting. So I'm
Speaker 1: enrolled in a finger painting class now, thank you.
Speaker 3: We've talked before about knowing when to give up and
Speaker 3: knowing when not to. I wonder what it's like for
Speaker 3: for comedians, given how many aspects come into landing or
Speaker 3: developing in a particular way. And then like, I just
Speaker 3: think that the psychology behind understanding at the psychology, the
Speaker 3: human behavior, the the interpersonal skills, the wit, the knowledge,
Speaker 3: the depth of I think love for humanity and curiosity,
Speaker 3: all of those things.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, so how.
Speaker 3: And then someone comes along Ago, no bro, not funny.
Speaker 3: And and then someone walks away from something that they
Speaker 3: probably on the cusp of being fucking brilliant at now.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that could be me. I think,
Speaker 1: like going back to Andy Kaufman and less of course,
Speaker 1: you know that there are certain people that are going
Speaker 1: to resonate with you. So it's really weird watching Andy
Speaker 1: Kaufman videos because I have turettes and so I repeat
Speaker 1: things a lot. So he did this one skit where
Speaker 1: there was a cartoon in the United States that was
Speaker 1: very popular back in like the sixties and the seventies.
Speaker 1: It was called Mighty Mouse. It was about this little
Speaker 1: tiny mouse that had like powers very similar to Superman,
Speaker 1: and so he would have a little mouse cape and
Speaker 1: fly around and you know, he would just shout here,
Speaker 1: I come to save the day, which is really arrogant, like,
Speaker 1: if you're going to be a superhero, you're screaming that shit.
Speaker 1: You would never hear Superman like like screaming that stuff.
Speaker 1: So the Mouse was a bit of a twat. If
Speaker 1: we're gonna be honest and Andy Kaufman used to do
Speaker 1: this thing where he would lipsync but he didn't know
Speaker 1: any of the words, and you would see him and
Speaker 1: the skid is he's getting more and more nervous and
Speaker 1: flustered because they know the words. But then every time
Speaker 1: the chorus hits, he would put his arm up and sing,
Speaker 1: here I come to save the day, and then he
Speaker 1: would go back to being confused. And the timing it
Speaker 1: was so genius. You would think that there's nothing funny
Speaker 1: about that, but it was epic. But he would experiment
Speaker 1: with things and when he bombed, it was funny, like
Speaker 1: he would tell the worst jokes on stage, like you
Speaker 1: know your friend who finds a joke so funny they're
Speaker 1: laughing at their own joke and they can't continue, but
Speaker 1: their delivery is atrocious, and you're laughing not because the
Speaker 1: joke is funny, but because of how funny they find
Speaker 1: their own joke. And they have no business telling jokes
Speaker 1: to anybody, not even the best mates. He would he
Speaker 1: would do that, knowing full well he can masterfully deliver it,
Speaker 1: and he would even stop and go no, no, no, wait,
Speaker 1: wait wait do you get it? Do you understand? And
Speaker 1: just keep going. And it was just if you find
Speaker 1: value in dying on stage, And like you said, curiosity,
Speaker 1: I think curiosity key to life.
Speaker 4: But it's it's.
Speaker 1: Got to be the key to doing any job, especially comedy.
Speaker 1: Really well, like, what's what is funny about this? What
Speaker 1: am I learning about this?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Like, like what's the audience's reaction going to be? If
Speaker 1: you can find I think curiosity is the antidote to
Speaker 1: the pain of rejection or an an antidote. Maybe not
Speaker 1: the antidote, Like I don't know, Maybe the antidote is
Speaker 1: like whiskey, but maybe a curiosity could be an ad
Speaker 1: to do it. I don't know. I don't know what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: When you did when you did.
Speaker 1: I've got a concussion, I seriously do.
Speaker 3: When you did the comedy gigs, did you do them
Speaker 3: for an interest in comedy or did you do them
Speaker 3: for the for the secondary gains of developing a particular
Speaker 3: skill set or testing yourself? What was the reason?
Speaker 1: Oh, at first they did it because the person who
Speaker 1: told me to put my name down said you'll never
Speaker 1: get cold. So Amy was going to go on the
Speaker 1: road for like a few months. She was making a film.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't going to see her regularly for months.
Speaker 1: So we went to this comedy club in LA that
Speaker 1: we just loved, and I was like, oh, okay, this
Speaker 1: is a really good chance for me to put myself
Speaker 1: out there and look really courageous in front of of
Speaker 1: Amy at no risks to me personally. So he's like
Speaker 1: this guy who I'm not going to mention his name,
Speaker 1: who's a comedian. He's like, yeah, just put your name down.
Speaker 1: To tell you the truth, there's a very little chance
Speaker 1: you're gonna get called. Oh really, Oh okay, I'll put
Speaker 1: my name down. I'll try this. And then like I
Speaker 1: was one of the first people called and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? You said, I was, ah,
Speaker 1: screw it. So I'm just gonna drink my chemet and
Speaker 1: yeah that's Belgian ale by the way, and I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna hang out and wait for my skit. And then
Speaker 1: I tried to walk straight up on stage rather than
Speaker 1: going through the green room. So the host hated me,
Speaker 1: just hated me because I didn't know where to go,
Speaker 1: what to do. I just like stumbled on stage. I
Speaker 1: sat down on a stool. I did my first just
Speaker 1: leaning on a stool and yeah, and then it was
Speaker 1: really tough like I had been. I had delivered at
Speaker 1: that point, like I don't know, easily over fifteen hundred
Speaker 1: seminars of my.
Speaker 4: Life, and I thought, oh, I've got this.
Speaker 1: But when you don't have a context and now you
Speaker 1: got to get up there and like people are expecting
Speaker 1: you to be funny, that's difficult. So I didn't do
Speaker 1: as bad as I thought I was going to do,
Speaker 1: but I didn't realize it was that hards Oh this
Speaker 1: is something I want to do. I want to do
Speaker 1: this because this is a domain of public speaking and
Speaker 1: entertainment that could probably make me better. So that happened after,
Speaker 1: but at first it was just me putting my name down,
Speaker 1: you know, just having a laugh.
Speaker 3: So you didn't have any You didn't do any specific
Speaker 3: learning or training or preparation aside from obviously you're speaking.
Speaker 1: I told you I had a couple of chemets.
Speaker 3: How many people do you think that give those open
Speaker 3: mind not to go how many going completely blonde like
Speaker 3: that and wing it, and how many going having done
Speaker 3: something that gives them a structure or some process to follow.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, but my guess would be there's
Speaker 1: two types of people that do open mic nights. Complete
Speaker 1: idiots like me who are just having a laugh and
Speaker 1: they're just like I know, they're out there with their
Speaker 1: mates and say, oh, I'll go up and do this thing.
Speaker 1: Maybe a third category people who actually think they're funny
Speaker 1: and think that funny in the pub transfers to stage.
Speaker 1: It doesn't. But I would imagine quite a lot of
Speaker 1: people that go up are working comedians and they're just
Speaker 1: looking to get as many reps as they possibly can,
Speaker 1: test out as much material, and they probably have stuff
Speaker 1: that they had written down and they're just trying to
Speaker 1: practice it in front of a live audience. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I would imagine those are the three categories. I think
Speaker 1: the biggest category is probably the latter, although well I
Speaker 1: may be completely wrong. There may be a comedian out
Speaker 1: there go on this sky doesn't always talking about please
Speaker 1: right end. We want to know.
Speaker 3: When I was on my speaking at the conference last month,
Speaker 3: the co host Martin, he did a little unannounced, unplanned
Speaker 3: bit of a comedy skit in the middle of the
Speaker 3: show and it was it was actually quite funny. It
Speaker 3: was really he was really good. But he talked to
Speaker 3: us about the benefit. He said, he did just a
Speaker 3: weekend course and got some experience, and he said it
Speaker 3: was just so beneficial for speaking. And it was really
Speaker 3: funny because having done the learning around structure and structures
Speaker 3: and processes and ideas and creating content that I have
Speaker 3: over the last year or so, and especially since starting
Speaker 3: the course I'm doing, it's shifted my race because any
Speaker 3: other time we have had a chat about or anyone
Speaker 3: has talked about getting up on stage to do comedy,
Speaker 3: I was like, that is the bravest thing ever. Never
Speaker 3: in a million million years would I ever do that.
Speaker 3: But I sat in that conference and I was like
Speaker 3: that I feel a bit of a pull to doing that,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, what where did that come from? Like
Speaker 3: that because it is terrified still terrifies me, but it's
Speaker 3: not the outcome of getting on stage, because I know
Speaker 3: there's so much underneath. It's like, it's the process, oh,
Speaker 3: I for this relationship with the ability to prepare a
Speaker 3: skit and make it happen. Like there's a lot of
Speaker 3: different skills that get honed in outside of just standing
Speaker 3: up to deliver it. There's all the preparation, Like we
Speaker 3: did we did story Slam in Queensland. That was unannounced
Speaker 3: until we got there and I won it, and what
Speaker 3: was called is looking back and going Ah. There was
Speaker 3: a lot of skill sets, so there was the ability
Speaker 3: to be for that to be announced in the middle
Speaker 3: of an event, the first World Becoming event, and we
Speaker 3: had between ten pm and eight the next morning to enter,
Speaker 3: so we had no time. I had to think of
Speaker 3: a story, and then we had one hundred characters to
Speaker 3: describe the title and the gist of the story that
Speaker 3: everyone would be voting on, and the people that the
Speaker 3: top six were going to be doing the story slam,
Speaker 3: so you had to be really clever and concise in
Speaker 3: creating a storyline out of one hundred characters. And then
Speaker 3: we had three minutes. Yeah, so we had then, and
Speaker 3: that didn't get announced until lunchtime the next day, so
Speaker 3: we had to eight thirty. Between eight thirty and twelve,
Speaker 3: everybody voted, and then at four pm, right before the
Speaker 3: end of our workshopping and our day our conference, they
Speaker 3: announced the six and then we met back for dinner
Speaker 3: at six pm, so we had about two hours to
Speaker 3: go and have a shower, get ready for dinner, and
Speaker 3: have a bit of a plan for our three minutes
Speaker 3: on stage. And it was brilliant to go through that
Speaker 3: process because I learned a lot of well, I observed
Speaker 3: a lot of things that I have over time been
Speaker 3: able to develop skills around that allowed me to have
Speaker 3: the capacity to practice the new things that were open
Speaker 3: to me in this experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like speaking, and it's a very it's a
Speaker 1: very hard skill. Like something came up in a meeting
Speaker 1: today where the MC of an event that I was doing,
Speaker 1: he had said something about, you know, like putting the
Speaker 1: work in and learning things, and somebody took that as
Speaker 1: a personal attack, like he doesn't even know you, right,
Speaker 1: And like someone in the meeting of the debrief somebody
Speaker 1: brought up you know, people have no idea what it's
Speaker 1: like for a speaker up there, Like if you say
Speaker 1: one thing or you mispronounce a word, people will jump
Speaker 1: on you about that, like have you ever done this?
Speaker 1: Especially when you have people doing like all day workshops
Speaker 1: or a couple of hours of a presentation, do you
Speaker 1: have any idea? Like what goes into that stuff is
Speaker 1: brutal And I'm not saying like you know, because you're
Speaker 1: getting on stage, so obviously there needs to be an
Speaker 1: expectation and delivery is critical and it needs to be
Speaker 1: engaging just as much as it's informative. But I don't
Speaker 1: think people who don't do that appreciate all the preparation
Speaker 1: that goes into it.
Speaker 3: Do you are you still learning? In terms of speaking?
Speaker 3: Are you still learning new stuff? Or are you still honing?
Speaker 3: Do you I feel like you have covered all the
Speaker 3: areas of learning open to you, and you're choosing parts
Speaker 3: of those to focus on.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting question.
Speaker 4: TIF.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm doing both. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: learning new stuff. But lately I've been finding it's really
Speaker 1: important to go back and learn how to or relearn
Speaker 1: how to hone the skills I've developed. Because I would
Speaker 1: say that twenty twenty four was my worst year in
Speaker 1: front of an audience.
Speaker 3: Really why, Yeah, I'm just changed.
Speaker 1: I think the expectations about Okay, well, where's your power point?
Speaker 1: We want to see a PowerPoint like everything that you say,
Speaker 1: We want the bullets up there, we want That's not
Speaker 1: how I speak. And I just if I bring up
Speaker 1: a PowerPoint, there'll be an image, or if I if
Speaker 1: there's a quote that I'll use, but I don't even
Speaker 1: know what quotes I'm going to use and tell on there,
Speaker 1: like how like for me to know everything I'm gonna say,
Speaker 1: Am I really connecting with the audience? Like if you've
Speaker 1: had enough preparation, and obviously in the first couple of
Speaker 1: years doing this, that's a big ask, but you should
Speaker 1: be able if the ad even if the audience isn't speaking,
Speaker 1: they're still communicating. You should be able to take that communication,
Speaker 1: make a decision on the fly and restructure your entire
Speaker 1: presentation right there in a split second and have it
Speaker 1: be cohesive. And I was over preparing, Like normally, if
Speaker 1: I have any PowerPoint or all, it's an image or
Speaker 1: video something that I cannot say. I think when people
Speaker 1: are trying to read bullet points, as fun as that
Speaker 1: is for them and listen to you, they're missing something
Speaker 1: because there's context there and there is that emotive impact.
Speaker 1: If I wanted to put everything I needed to talk
Speaker 1: about on a PowerPoint, I would just send out a
Speaker 1: PowerPoint presentation, do the reading and your own like you know,
Speaker 1: leisure and just like why why rock up to the
Speaker 1: actual session. So I was started doing a lot of
Speaker 1: things where and there was also trying to meet everyone's
Speaker 1: expectations about how they thought I should present or what
Speaker 1: they weren't happy about even though they're not presenters. So
Speaker 1: I was doing all this stuff that I've trained speakers
Speaker 1: to never ever do, and it showed, you know, like
Speaker 1: you get up there and you get oh that was
Speaker 1: a that was a good presentation. Yeah, no, oh that
Speaker 1: was very interesting. No, that's horrible. The subtitles there is
Speaker 1: you wasted our time. If somebody gets up like, oh
Speaker 1: that was interesting. Oh, I mean I learned something that
Speaker 1: was good information, Like you should have sent an email.
Speaker 1: You want to impact people on an emotional level when
Speaker 1: you're speaking. It is about influence, and because the world
Speaker 1: to influence has rubbed people the wrong way in the past,
Speaker 1: what I mean by influence is the ability to positively
Speaker 1: affect the character, development and behavior of someone or something
Speaker 1: like a team or an organization. I got that definition
Speaker 1: from the Encoded World English Dictionary, so it's legit. But
Speaker 1: that's kind of like that's the game you're playing.
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, yeah, I'm I see and hear speakers
Speaker 3: differently now and probably a bit like a bit like comedy,
Speaker 3: you know, that's changed for me. And now hearing and
Speaker 3: seeing speakers is shifting, but I'm still very much in
Speaker 3: the world of listening and learning and deciding and applying
Speaker 3: and deciding what fits me and if it needs attention
Speaker 3: and where it can improve me or where it where
Speaker 3: it might not fit. But yeah, I mean very much.
Speaker 3: I think like yourself and like Harps and a lot
Speaker 3: of the people that I respect in speaking, I am
Speaker 3: very off the cuff and very in tune with connecting
Speaker 3: with the audience and going where we go together. But
Speaker 3: in the middle of that learning about even kind of
Speaker 3: the neuroscience of how people take on the information that
Speaker 3: we present. So how am I presenting that? How much
Speaker 3: am I presenting and expecting people to retain And are
Speaker 3: they having a good time and having emotionally resonant moments
Speaker 3: that also translate to things that stay with them once
Speaker 3: I leave the room.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think every season speaker that I enjoy kind
Speaker 1: of is in that space where I'm there to be
Speaker 1: connected to people and they're not going to remember everything
Speaker 1: I'm saying. The best you can do is to frame
Speaker 1: things in a way where you spark people's curiosity. Yes,
Speaker 1: there are takeaways and tools, I'm not discounting that at all,
Speaker 1: but they'll remember how they felt and what's their level
Speaker 1: of interest in a topic after you've spoken about it,
Speaker 1: because nobody's like, oh wow, so how did you get
Speaker 1: to where you got to in your career. I attended
Speaker 1: a seminar one day and the information was amazing, and
Speaker 1: ever since then, I've just been applying it for me.
Speaker 1: Like one of the things I came up in the
Speaker 1: meeting today is somebody wrote in an eval, oh wow.
Speaker 1: I really like the references to these books because I
Speaker 1: always want people to know what I'm saying right now,
Speaker 1: like my stories are me some of them, and the
Speaker 1: way I'm delivering is me, but the information's not me.
Speaker 1: I didn't come up with any of this, And even
Speaker 1: if I did come up with it and create a
Speaker 1: model around it, it's because I probably heard it from
Speaker 1: twenty different sources that I'm putting together here. Read this book,
Speaker 1: read this study, and they're like, oh, we love that,
Speaker 1: because now we can go after the session's over and
Speaker 1: go explore what interests us about the topic. Like that's
Speaker 1: the highest outcome I'm looking for is I now can
Speaker 1: go out and pursue my own curiosity because they're not
Speaker 1: going to remember ninety five percent of what it is
Speaker 1: that I said. But if they go out and dedicate
Speaker 1: themselves to a lifetime of learning for a subject matter
Speaker 1: that has value to them, that's brilliant, Absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. What's what are your what are
Speaker 3: things you're doing now?
Speaker 1: Like what related to oh, related to speaking? Yeah, like
Speaker 1: you mean in front of an audience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, reflecting on your year at twenty twenty four and going, ah,
Speaker 3: that's that's my that's my most recent year and my
Speaker 3: worst year being in front of an audience. How did
Speaker 3: you decide where to recalibrate and where to put your
Speaker 3: attention in improving?
Speaker 1: Well? So I was realizing there's a couple of things.
Speaker 1: I was realizing. One, you know, how you perform even
Speaker 1: if people come up to you and like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love that. That was the best thing ever they
Speaker 1: call Oh you know, I didn't really like this, or
Speaker 1: you could have done this better. You know, when you're
Speaker 1: in the flow, and that's the best that you can
Speaker 1: do if you're prepared in your delivery. And I just
Speaker 1: got off some big stages and thought who.
Speaker 4: Was up there?
Speaker 1: Like I didn't show up for this today. There was
Speaker 1: somebody up speaking, and you know, tell them stories and
Speaker 1: relaying research and data, which is wow, that's exciting. I mean,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't there. I didn't bring myself to this presentation.
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine at if I wasn't up there,
Speaker 1: this conference or this session would have suffered. They could
Speaker 1: have put they could have put anybody good up there,
Speaker 1: and it's like, if you're not adding unique value, what
Speaker 1: are you doing? So I started noticing that, and I
Speaker 1: also started noticing I didn't like being up there. Like
Speaker 1: last Friday, I was working with an executive leadership team
Speaker 1: for a college, and I love working with these groups
Speaker 1: of people. And as I'm in the convention center, you know,
Speaker 1: not a feeling when you're walking through the convention center,
Speaker 1: and as you're walking through it, you're just picking up
Speaker 1: more and more energy from everyone, like you're just expanding
Speaker 1: and expanding, expanding. I'm walking towards the room, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what's this room gonna look like?
Speaker 4: And I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: That is how I have been for ninety nine percent
Speaker 1: of the presentations I've ever delivered, like I want to
Speaker 1: be here, you know, even if it's like five people
Speaker 1: in an office somewhere and they're like, oh, we're going
Speaker 1: to bring in this speaker, so you know, whilst you're
Speaker 1: eating your sandwiches, you can listen to this guy. I
Speaker 1: want to be here, And I started realizing I don't
Speaker 1: want to be here like I would want to be
Speaker 1: doing anything else, like oh, getting up this early in
Speaker 1: the morning, And I realized, what is happening to you?
Speaker 1: So for a lot of different reasons, I was struggling
Speaker 1: with burnout. So I was completely toast. I said, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the things I need to do is get
Speaker 1: back into my authentic speaking style because this whole scripting
Speaker 1: out word for word and trying and going over it
Speaker 1: and trying to remember it, this shit doesn't work for me, right,
Speaker 1: I know it works like actors do that all the time.
Speaker 1: I mean and by the time they deliver, though, like
Speaker 1: they make that their own. So the script's only like
Speaker 1: ten twenty. For me, it was like fifty percent of everything.
Speaker 1: You're on the wrong path because you're stressed out and
Speaker 1: you're not thinking properly and you're doing the same you're
Speaker 1: making the same mistakes that a lot of people make.
Speaker 1: So you need to reset. So I went to Rakovic
Speaker 1: to reset. It's a great place to reset. Very cold
Speaker 1: and came back. So, okay, let me try something not different,
Speaker 1: let me go back to the way I'm used to presenting,
Speaker 1: and it just it's been getting better and better.
Speaker 3: How do you know when your perception of your performance
Speaker 3: is reality to the degree that you believe it is.
Speaker 1: Well, I believe it is. I don't know if it's reality.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've gotten off the stage and been like, oh,
Speaker 1: that that was a great delivery, and people are like, oh.
Speaker 4: My goodness, wow.
Speaker 1: You know it's like I I missed, I missed stranger
Speaker 1: things for this, So I'm sure. I'm sure There's there's
Speaker 1: been times so I've been off base, but that goes
Speaker 1: the other way as well, more often the other way.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think that was the best delivery,
Speaker 1: and people like that was amazing. So I did a
Speaker 1: presentation for a friend of mine many months like many
Speaker 1: months ago, but damn well it was six months ago.
Speaker 1: I thought, oh man, wow, that that did not land.
Speaker 1: I really wanted to do a great job for him,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I could tell he was disappointed,
Speaker 1: and you called me. He's like, my team is doing
Speaker 1: better already. They loved it. They loved everything. You had
Speaker 1: to say they used it. It worked immediately. I can't
Speaker 1: thank you enough. I was like, oh, okay, so I
Speaker 1: was off base there. So I think getting out of
Speaker 1: your head. It doesn't matter. Here's the thing. It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter how well you perform. What matters is how connected
Speaker 1: are you to the audience and what's the state of
Speaker 1: you bring into the room. I'm listening to the audience.
Speaker 1: If I feel from the audience, I feel for myself
Speaker 1: that I am flowing. I'm not forcing anything. I've done
Speaker 1: enough preparation. I'm adapt I'm adaptable. It's the information's not
Speaker 1: coming from me, it's flowing through me. I'm like an antenna.
Speaker 1: That's when I know I've delivered. Now are there people
Speaker 1: that are going to write, yeah, I didn't like this,
Speaker 1: or oh I love that. Yeah, of course, Like I
Speaker 1: did a session and I prepared thirty hours for one hour,
Speaker 1: and people like, oh my god, that this person like
Speaker 1: was so prepared, like so many layers, and somebody wrote
Speaker 1: I thought the presenter was completely unprepared. Superficial answers that's
Speaker 1: always going to be out there. You know, they're always
Speaker 1: going to be in the audience, and you have to
Speaker 1: if I get twenty percent of that, Okay, I need
Speaker 1: to change something. If that's like a couple of people,
Speaker 1: you're definitely going to get those. You should you shouldn't
Speaker 1: take those seriously, and you shouldn't take be that was amazing.
Speaker 1: That's presentation I've ever shouldn't take that seriously either. You know,
Speaker 1: you know where you're at. How do you know? Because
Speaker 1: you do a lot of speaking and you're you're you're
Speaker 1: like really good at it. So what's your litmus test?
Speaker 3: This is why I ask because and more for me
Speaker 3: in reference of podcasts, because because I do these so frequently,
Speaker 3: no matter what, like I always go through the emotional
Speaker 3: chaos in preparation for speaking, you know, oh, changing it
Speaker 3: and carrying on and well I'm not ready and what
Speaker 3: am I going to you know, how's this going to
Speaker 3: come together? And blah blah blah blah. And but on
Speaker 3: the day, I'm always excited, right because I love to
Speaker 3: be I'm nervous, and then once I'm there, I love it.
Speaker 3: I love connecting, I love being in the room with people.
Speaker 3: Podcasting is quite consistent for me. It's it's almost every
Speaker 3: day doing my podcast on the podcast with Harps, and
Speaker 3: there's a lot more ebbs and flows in just daily life,
Speaker 3: and there's been times sipped from the very beginning of
Speaker 3: this journey right up until definitely this year, I've just
Speaker 3: been a shit of a year. At times where I
Speaker 3: have been in the middle of conversations and I've thought beforehand,
Speaker 3: I should just cancel this, but I'm not one to cancel,
Speaker 3: so I just kid. I feel like I'm in a funk.
Speaker 3: I'm tired, and i just don't feel like I'm going
Speaker 3: to bring my best. And then in some conversations, I
Speaker 3: just feel like I'm doing a terrible job as a host.
Speaker 3: I'm like, you are so terrible at this, Like this
Speaker 3: feels like a question answer podcast and not your usual
Speaker 3: flow of conversation, and I really beat myself up and
Speaker 3: get down about it, and I'm like, oh God, And
Speaker 3: eventually I'll have a listen to it. Sometimes it takes
Speaker 3: a while because I don't want to listen to me
Speaker 3: being shit, And occasionally I'll listen to it and be like, ah,
Speaker 3: what was the problem. There was no problem with that.
Speaker 3: That was not clunky, Like I thought that was clunky,
Speaker 3: and that wasn't clunky, and I didn't sound however, I
Speaker 3: thought I sounded. So it really interests me in how
Speaker 3: we because we are emotional beings and energy driven beings.
Speaker 3: How do we? And it was the same with boxing,
Speaker 3: It was the same with thinking that you know a
Speaker 3: performance was shit, And like I always tell a specific
Speaker 3: story where I was sparring, and I remember, I can
Speaker 3: so vividly remember this day where I sat down afterwards
Speaker 3: and I took my head gear off and my mouth
Speaker 3: guard out, and I was just kind of staring at
Speaker 3: the wall, frustrated at myself, pissed off. And my coach
Speaker 3: comes over and he goes, what's the matter with you?
Speaker 3: And I go, just I just frustrated. I'm sick of it.
Speaker 3: I'm sick of being so shit at it. And he
Speaker 3: looked at me and he goes, yeah, no one in
Speaker 3: this gym has ever put pressure on Carly the way
Speaker 3: you just did. That's the best you have ever sparred. Now,
Speaker 3: Carli was worlds at more advance than me and a
Speaker 3: few weight divisions, maybe two or three weight divisions heavy.
Speaker 3: I'm in a small ring and she and to hear
Speaker 3: that feedback, I was like, hang on, I think I'm
Speaker 3: sitting here under the guys that I am so shit,
Speaker 3: and I'm embarrassed about it, and I'm frustrated by it,
Speaker 3: and I'm annoyed that I don't know how to get better.
Speaker 3: And then my coach comes and says, hey, that's the
Speaker 3: best you've ever sparred. And on top of that, as
Speaker 3: a little fucking tiny little novice here, you've just put
Speaker 3: more pressure on one of our girls than most people
Speaker 3: have ever Like, how do we trust ourselves to keep going?
Speaker 1: My friend John once asked me a question. I've talked
Speaker 1: about John a lot. I think he's just he's brilliant comedian, educator.
Speaker 1: And he said, what do you think happens if Steven
Speaker 1: Spielberg rocks up to set one morning and he just
Speaker 1: feels like he is completely shit? What do you think happens?
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know. Maybe that's why we
Speaker 1: never had a sequel to et, you know, went home,
Speaker 1: never came back. I don't know. Some people can say
Speaker 1: I don't really blame him, but he said nothing. He
Speaker 1: has an he has an amazingly productive creative day because
Speaker 1: of craft, because every day he has worked on his craft.
Speaker 1: So he walks in on set and he's feeling amazing.
Speaker 1: He's going to produce something special. He walks onto set
Speaker 1: and he's feeling completely like shit, He's going to produce
Speaker 1: something amazing. It's craft. It's just keep going and doing
Speaker 1: the reps. But like you know this better than anybody,
Speaker 1: it's not about doing the reps. It's not about like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I've done like four presentations this week. It's about how
Speaker 1: you do it. Okay, What am I looking for? What's
Speaker 1: the main thing I want to convey? How do I
Speaker 1: want people to feel? Okay? I presented what happened? Right, Like,
Speaker 1: what if I could go back in time, rewind and
Speaker 1: do this whole day over again. What went particularly well here?
Speaker 1: What was I really pleased with?
Speaker 4: What brought that about?
Speaker 1: Was it the way I felt? Was it that I
Speaker 1: got there early, or I listened to comedy or I
Speaker 1: was listening to music in my head. I think preparing
Speaker 1: and reading your notes before you go on stage is
Speaker 1: a massive mistake, right. It's like, if you don't know
Speaker 1: what you're going to say about you probably probably not
Speaker 1: shouldn't be speaking on it about the state you get in, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe I don't know. Maybe I listened to uh,
Speaker 1: maybe I listened to the theme of Stranger things. We'll
Speaker 1: stick with that that got really good soundtrack? Maybe it's that. Okay,
Speaker 1: if what would I have changed? Why? And is there
Speaker 1: anything that I didn't anticipate that happened that I was
Speaker 1: surprised by? Like what surprised me? What was novel about
Speaker 1: this particular session? What did I learn? You keep doing
Speaker 1: that and then you prepare based on that, like you
Speaker 1: carry all that over into practice for the next one.
Speaker 1: I think you'll get better and better. So it's a value.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's getting up, doing the repetitions and evaluating
Speaker 1: what happened and what do I do next?
Speaker 3: Sure things interesting to bear in mind is the idea
Speaker 3: that when we choose to do, when we are following
Speaker 3: a passion or a love, when we choose to dedicate
Speaker 3: our life and career to something that fills our cup,
Speaker 3: like yourself, like myself, and like a lot of people
Speaker 3: and even people I think with jobs. You choose a
Speaker 3: job and you go, this is the career that I
Speaker 3: want to dedicate myself to because I love it and
Speaker 3: it feels good. The trap is the almost thinking that
Speaker 3: the feeling good is the reason we're doing it and
Speaker 3: not just the doing of it. Like yes, it's a
Speaker 3: performed like, yeah, this most of what I do relies
Speaker 3: heavily on performing well doing it, but I don't do it.
Speaker 3: I didn't start doing it because I performed well. I
Speaker 3: started doing it because something about the doing of it
Speaker 3: captivated me and made me want to perform well. Right,
Speaker 3: And then I think that subconsciously we can fall into
Speaker 3: the trap of well, one day I'll just feel like
Speaker 3: I'm good at this, and that never It never happened.
Speaker 3: In boxing, I'm aware. I was aware that I had
Speaker 3: a skill set. I was aware that I won more
Speaker 3: than I lost. I was aware when I got titled.
Speaker 3: I was aware that I had capabilities and had and improvements.
Speaker 3: But in the middle of that, the driver of it
Speaker 3: was always I'm doing this to get better.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Confidence is overrated. Confidence has to be balanced with
Speaker 1: equal measure of confidence, otherwise you're going to get your
Speaker 1: ass kicked, definitely in the rank on stage. In sales
Speaker 1: like don't get too confident. Curiosity again, going back to that,
Speaker 1: curiosity isn't throwing because curiosity gets you out of your
Speaker 1: own head and puts you in the moment. It puts
Speaker 1: you on stage, it puts you in in connection with
Speaker 1: other people in your audience or sometimes you know, you
Speaker 1: could find out where there's meaning in something by just
Speaker 1: trying shit, because I don't think I agree with you.
Speaker 1: Where if there's something meaningful, something you value, how can
Speaker 1: I express this value? For some people that's public speaking,
Speaker 1: for some people that's making music, or there's also I
Speaker 1: was just fucking about and I found out in a
Speaker 1: good way, right, So he was like, like, what I
Speaker 1: got up in front of an audience. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be there. Oh, so it's sad. So a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago, Dennis Weightly died. Dennis weight Lee was
Speaker 1: a public speaker. He was like one of the godfathers
Speaker 1: of the self help industry, you know, like if if
Speaker 1: self help was a mafia, he would have been one
Speaker 1: of the heads of one of the five families. And
Speaker 1: he just he was the first person I was ever
Speaker 1: introduced to. And I met Dennis. Actually, we've hung out,
Speaker 1: we've we've had big nights out actually, and you know,
Speaker 1: I kept in touch with him for a bit. There's
Speaker 1: another lesson there and then stopped. And he was the
Speaker 1: first person I ever listened to where I said, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I didn't know people expressed ideas this way,
Speaker 1: and I was enthralled because my boss was driving around
Speaker 1: and he was like, Okay, I want you shut up
Speaker 1: for like thirty minutes, which, as you well know, epic
Speaker 1: esque and just just listen to.
Speaker 4: The I know, right.
Speaker 1: So I'm lucky I didn't implode. I could have had
Speaker 1: an aneurysm. But he's like, listen to this and just
Speaker 1: don't say a word until this is over. And I
Speaker 1: feel like that changed me. That planted theaters Dennis Waite
Speaker 1: leaves the Psychology of Winning, and my boss put me
Speaker 1: up in front of a room them like like over
Speaker 1: one hundred people my first time speaking. I think my
Speaker 1: second time.
Speaker 4: Was oh oh. They were like, oh, could you do
Speaker 4: this thing?
Speaker 1: There's this group that wants a speaker and we just
Speaker 1: go in and talk to them. I was like, sure,
Speaker 1: no problem, I'll go in. I'll talk to him about
Speaker 1: like fitness and goal setting and health. And I was
Speaker 1: like nineteen. I walk in the room. There were hundreds
Speaker 1: of people in the room. I was like, ah, oh
Speaker 1: my god. My girlfriend at the time was with me,
Speaker 1: and I like started walking away from the room. I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna go to the toilet.
Speaker 1: She like, all right, you're coming back. So I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm gonna throw up, Like I don't
Speaker 1: want to do this, and they were It was the worst.
Speaker 1: Both of those things were the worst experience ever, especially
Speaker 1: the big group. But then people would come up to
Speaker 1: me and say like, oh wow, that was so helpful
Speaker 1: for me. I got something. What there was saying is
Speaker 1: I saw something possibility for me that I didn't see
Speaker 1: before that, and that connected to my value structure. I
Speaker 1: wasn't even aware explicitly what my value structure was, but
Speaker 1: I knew the exchange of ideas and dialogue and discussing
Speaker 1: possibilities and creative ways forward was something that enthralled me,
Speaker 1: you know, at a table with two people, not like
Speaker 1: three hundred. But from that day forward, I think the
Speaker 1: next five hundred times I spoke, I wanted to throw
Speaker 1: up right before every single time. But drawing something happened.
Speaker 1: I was so connected. I disappeared, so I had no
Speaker 1: awareness of what I was feeling in terms of fear
Speaker 1: and anxiety, and after it was over, I had this
Speaker 1: euphoric feeling. It was just incredible. Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: just love doing this. So for me I didn't know. Oh,
Speaker 1: speaking as how I can contribute, I.
Speaker 4: Just tried it.
Speaker 1: I said yes to something even though I didn't even
Speaker 1: want to say yes to it. So sometimes you just
Speaker 1: got to go out and just you know, join an
Speaker 1: improv group or you know, just join join you know,
Speaker 1: a painting group and you know where you like wine
Speaker 1: and painting. You ever do those things?
Speaker 3: I love those.
Speaker 1: I love yeah, like I'm in it for the mail beck.
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest, painting some for me. But I've
Speaker 1: done those things. It's like, just play around with shit
Speaker 1: and see what works for you. You might hate something,
Speaker 1: so you don't have to do it again, just just
Speaker 1: play it life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. I mean I got put into
Speaker 3: networking when I was younger, younger he's probably in my thirties,
Speaker 3: late twenties, and I was petrified last year. Yeah, yeah, yep,
Speaker 3: just last dar February. I always had an underlying appreciation
Speaker 3: and was quite captivated when people had an ability to
Speaker 3: hold a room or shift and energy or connect that.
Speaker 3: There was a pull there. But I never at that
Speaker 3: point went I want to do that. I was just like,
Speaker 3: that's really there's something there. And then a boss of mine,
Speaker 3: a company merged, and then I got thrown into this
Speaker 3: networking membership he had and fuck Bobby, the terror of
Speaker 3: standing up in front of there was thirteen people in
Speaker 3: the room at this first one thirty. The terror I
Speaker 3: had to stand up and speak for sixty seconds to
Speaker 3: introduce my name, the name of my business, and what
Speaker 3: we did to my peers was terrifying. I remember as
Speaker 3: they each went around and had their turn, my mind
Speaker 3: just went blank. I'd written it down, I'd practiced it
Speaker 3: all night, I had it. I'm pretty sure I had
Speaker 3: it written in front of me, but I didn't want
Speaker 3: to read it because I hate that. But I just
Speaker 3: remember sitting there and having this empty, blank mind and
Speaker 3: I couldn't hear what that was. I couldn't hear what
Speaker 3: the other people did. I don't know what they were
Speaker 3: saying because I was so fucking terrified. And eventually here
Speaker 3: we are, like, it's it's so crazy where new thing,
Speaker 3: and you're saying with the improv like I did that
Speaker 3: not because I wanted to do improv, but I was
Speaker 3: by the time you introduced me to Dave Razowski, and
Speaker 3: I had no fucking idea what improv was. What is improv?
Speaker 3: I literally did not know you could have said gobbledygook
Speaker 3: to me, Dave is a gobbledygook coach. That is what
Speaker 3: I heard when you said Dave's an improv.
Speaker 1: I'm like, David loved that statement. By the way.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what is what is gobbledegook? And what does
Speaker 3: Dave coach? And he is? Is he coaching using improv
Speaker 3: to like? And then I'm like, I google it, I'm researching.
Speaker 3: Go So Dave pretends with Dave just pretends he goes
Speaker 3: to a place and then he just so Dave's four,
Speaker 3: Dave's four, and he's a kid. And I was like,
Speaker 3: that's so fucking weird.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, you know, that's so funny.
Speaker 1: The irony of that statement, Dave. Dave is one of
Speaker 1: the few people in society that teaches people to stop
Speaker 1: pretending the situation. The situation is fictitious, the interaction is
Speaker 1: as real as you're ever. That's what I hate to
Speaker 1: just that is what was so seductive about Dave. Like
Speaker 1: I was a little bit afraid of Dave. Actually I
Speaker 1: still am probably a little bit afraid of Dave because
Speaker 1: I was like, this guy is so free and in
Speaker 1: the moment and creative and express like it.
Speaker 4: Is fucking terrifying.
Speaker 1: I want some of this. You were amazing with him.
Speaker 1: At the very end of your podcast where you and
Speaker 1: Dave were just riffing. I think about like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I forgot what it was, but there was like suitcases
Speaker 1: evolved on and maybe the two of you were planning
Speaker 1: to run away together or something. And I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: you were you were great. You were great, because that's
Speaker 1: I think, that's just.
Speaker 3: Kind of remember that. I can't even remember the conversation.
Speaker 1: It was like, no, I remembered it because you know
Speaker 1: how like when something sparks your interest, like you could
Speaker 1: see that one scene in a movie and you remember
Speaker 1: it ten years later because it touched something emotionally you.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, wow, Tiffany's just right there, Like
Speaker 1: that riff was beautiful, because like Dave would, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: like even trying to get me past the bridge line.
Speaker 1: It took Dave like four months. I could just see
Speaker 1: Dave sweating in sessions with me, just just sweat pouring
Speaker 1: down his face, like he probably canceled his sessions after me.
Speaker 1: It's like I'm just gonna have a lie down. It's just.
Speaker 3: Ah, but yeah, I loved that. You know. I got
Speaker 3: through that conversation and went, this is this is another
Speaker 3: version of a boxing ring for me. I think I
Speaker 3: need to go and do this weird thing. I think
Speaker 3: that there's I think there's big lessons in there that
Speaker 3: you can't learn through theory. Very cool.
Speaker 1: I wonder what the link is with you and boxing
Speaker 1: and speaking and improv I feel like there's a point
Speaker 1: where this converges for you.
Speaker 3: Boxing was a place two weeks here an interpretation. Boxing
Speaker 3: for me was a place to explore where there are
Speaker 3: boundaries and rules, but I was allowed to be well.
Speaker 3: I was allowed to be visible. I was visible, and
Speaker 3: I was allowed to be seen as exactly who I am,
Speaker 3: and that I'm okay and I'm empowered and I'm safe
Speaker 3: and I'm capable. It's an honest place where the person
Speaker 3: standing in front of me is not pretending to be
Speaker 3: my friend. They're standing there in front of the world
Speaker 3: going I'm gonna punch you in the face real hard.
Speaker 3: I'm here with an intention of beating you and you
Speaker 3: might get hurt. And there's something about that that for me,
Speaker 3: was very appealing in its honesty and very real. I
Speaker 3: think that the improv was a place where where I
Speaker 3: get so that taught me how to function within that
Speaker 3: boundary set. And then improv was a place where there
Speaker 3: were different rules and still rules, but self expression there weren't.
Speaker 3: There wasn't hey, this is what you have to do.
Speaker 3: It's hey, there's actually there's no way to do this.
Speaker 3: Here are some rules to give you a structure, but
Speaker 3: now you just have to you just have to be
Speaker 3: and do whatever comes up. And I think that I
Speaker 3: can often find myself looking for answers in this course
Speaker 3: I'm doing with the structured ways of processing thought and
Speaker 3: structures ways of I don't know coming up with what
Speaker 3: we're presenting. I don't work within those structures, and my
Speaker 3: brain implodes. I go, I don't know what. Just tell
Speaker 3: me the fucking answer. Just tell me the answer, or
Speaker 3: just put me on the stage with no plan. They're
Speaker 3: the rules. You either do it for me or just
Speaker 3: put me on the stage and I'll and it'll happen
Speaker 3: when I'm there because i'll because that's the structure I know.
Speaker 3: So I think that improv is a place where you
Speaker 3: just have to start using a new muscle and being
Speaker 3: okay with it and having fun and going. There's no
Speaker 3: implications if you get it wrong, someone's not going to
Speaker 3: knock you out. You're not going to get CTE. You're
Speaker 3: just gonna You're just gonna be there and you don't
Speaker 3: have to be funny.
Speaker 1: There are some imps that are pretty intense, So yeah.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about doing another improv workshop this year
Speaker 3: just to hone those. But then when I heard about
Speaker 3: the the link to the comedy, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: that ups the stakes. Maybe maybe that'll be something I'll explore.
Speaker 3: But it does terrify me very very much. Expectation, like
Speaker 3: people's expectation of you know what the expectation is. People think,
Speaker 3: come here because I think I'm funny, not because I
Speaker 3: want to understand it or I want to develop it.
Speaker 3: And that's the same as a speaker. People people think
Speaker 3: you're on stage because you think you're good, but actually
Speaker 3: you're on stage because you want to be good. And
Speaker 3: I think there's more different and there's.
Speaker 1: What you the essence of what it is you want
Speaker 1: to contribute. So I want anything you truly value. I
Speaker 1: think you want that. There's this intrinsic motivation to get
Speaker 1: better and better, to explore it and grow within that craft.
Speaker 1: And there's this like Amy said this beautifully where she
Speaker 1: was giving a speech at the Plaza Hotel in New
Speaker 1: York and she was talking about art and she said,
Speaker 1: you know, art is the ability for me to see
Speaker 1: myself in you and for you to see yourself in me.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, isn't that beautiful? That is why
Speaker 1: at the core of what we are as human beings,
Speaker 1: I believe it is art because that's all there is.
Speaker 1: I think that is the deepest level of existence, and
Speaker 1: it's something that is disappearing from all world pathologically. And
Speaker 1: I don't know, we could probably do a whole episode
Speaker 1: about what's causing that. I don't know, but I think
Speaker 1: when you think about when do I feel most human
Speaker 1: at the core, it's that definition of art. It's when
Speaker 1: that level of art is occurring, whether on screen, in concert,
Speaker 1: right on stage, or at a coffee shop between two
Speaker 1: people that are completely disappearing in dialogue and conversation communion
Speaker 1: with one another like that. Shit, it's powerful.
Speaker 3: Where can everybody find you? What do you got? What
Speaker 3: do you got for the messes right now? Anything?
Speaker 1: Well, my address is.
Speaker 3: Dress and phone number would be great.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So.
Speaker 1: I would actually do and be like really insulted if
Speaker 1: stalkers did not rock up?
Speaker 4: What am.
Speaker 1: Just joking any potential stalkers out there?
Speaker 4: That was just a joke.
Speaker 1: Just I have ADHD, so it's very hard to stalk
Speaker 1: me because I just get distract Just it's just where
Speaker 1: am I? Oh, I know where I am geographically. But
Speaker 1: Robert Capuccio dot com, the self help antidote dot com,
Speaker 1: I'm on LinkedIn. I'm gonna be getting into social media
Speaker 1: a little bit more.
Speaker 3: You've been doing some great videos. Have you got anything
Speaker 3: you're doing anything coming up that that people can access? No,
Speaker 3: all right, get stuffed everyone. Nothing for you, guys. You
Speaker 3: can watch great videos and tune into these podcasts and
Speaker 3: on the self health helps Help Help. Can you say
Speaker 3: that self health health.
Speaker 1: That it's like a drinking game, Isn't it?
Speaker 3: Help? Antidote, You're amazing, Thanks Bobby, Thank you.
Speaker 2: Tiffany, she said, it's now never I got fighting in
Speaker 2: my blood.
Speaker 3: T