Speaker 1: Welcome to the Mentor. I'm Mark Boris, Joe Cooper, Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Mentor. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: And I've seen you around for a long long time
Speaker 2: in the coffee shop next door. You're nearly a fixture
Speaker 2: in that joint.
Speaker 1: I am. Theyre my cheers squad.
Speaker 3: That's good to have a cheer squad.
Speaker 2: And you're obviously a local, I am and local being
Speaker 2: local and Darlinghurst, correct, which is where our studios are,
Speaker 2: which is where the coffee shop is, and where you
Speaker 2: also happen to live. And you live in a very
Speaker 2: famous building here in Sydney, in East Sydney.
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 2: I think it's technically East Sydney, which is sort of
Speaker 2: very close to the city we're talking, you know, about
Speaker 2: a kilometer and a half. I know, it takes me
Speaker 2: twenty minutes to walk from our studios into my office
Speaker 2: in Chiffley, so it's about a kilometer.
Speaker 3: And a half.
Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit more than that, maybe one point
Speaker 2: seven kilometers, because often do it.
Speaker 3: I'll put my backpack and I'll walk in.
Speaker 1: It's convenient and I walk back. Yeah it is.
Speaker 3: And so the building you live in is what's called.
Speaker 2: What it's called the Horizon Horizon building, and a very
Speaker 2: famous architect built that or design that, I.
Speaker 1: Should say, his name was Harry Sideline.
Speaker 2: Harry's Sideline Harry. And Harry Sidler's not with us anymore,
Speaker 2: is he.
Speaker 1: No, he's not, but his legacy lives on and so
Speaker 1: this building is.
Speaker 2: And I should also say that you've created a movement
Speaker 2: called the Good Warrior, and we're going to talk about that.
Speaker 2: You do have a day job. What is let's call
Speaker 2: it your day job. Maybe's probably not job, but your
Speaker 2: day night job.
Speaker 4: At the moment, it's a bit of a it's a mix.
Speaker 4: So my backgrounds in project was in project management. I
Speaker 4: left that to pursue music and then I came up
Speaker 4: against a bit of a battle and that took over
Speaker 4: my life for a solid time.
Speaker 1: I came back to do music and then I created
Speaker 1: the Good Warrior.
Speaker 4: So the Good Worry is pretty much a mix of
Speaker 4: advocacy and the arts.
Speaker 2: So maybe you could just give me an outline. What
Speaker 2: is the Good Warrior as a business model?
Speaker 1: Business model? So it's an initiative. I call it a
Speaker 1: social enterprise.
Speaker 4: It's a company that is created to inspire and educate
Speaker 4: people on how to no longer be silent bystanders. It's
Speaker 4: all about bullying, abuse of power, a place that I
Speaker 4: actually needed when I was going through a really hard time.
Speaker 4: My aim is to inspire and change culture, so to
Speaker 4: create a safety space which then equates to trust and
Speaker 4: hopefully then justice. So it's keynotes, it's workshops, it's art,
Speaker 4: some music, so storytelling to convey a very strong message.
Speaker 2: And where did this all come from? I know we
Speaker 2: won't talk about the battle you had.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a long one.
Speaker 3: Your body corporate, I guess it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably the counsel, et cetera. But where.
Speaker 2: Take me back? Like, have you suffered let's call it
Speaker 2: bullying in the past.
Speaker 4: So my very first relationship ended up in a very
Speaker 4: abusive situation which saw me in hospital.
Speaker 1: And I remember, I.
Speaker 3: Tell you.
Speaker 1: Eighteen, Yeah it was.
Speaker 4: It was a shock male male who was like I think,
Speaker 4: three times the size of me, and he pushed me
Speaker 4: out of a car, was holding onto my wrist and
Speaker 4: drove off with me for a little bit and then threw.
Speaker 1: Me out, dragged you along, dragged me out, And for me,
Speaker 1: that moment.
Speaker 4: Sort of connects to now in a way because what
Speaker 4: stuck struck me the most at that moment was the
Speaker 4: people just staring at me. Nobody coming up to see
Speaker 4: if I was okay. They were just staring at me.
Speaker 4: And I hate blood, and I was bleeding and I
Speaker 4: usually pass out. I was so fixated on the fact
Speaker 4: that nobody was coming to help me that I didn't
Speaker 4: even notice the blood, and so by a stair culture
Speaker 4: for me started then, because I know I'm very old.
Speaker 2: Culture that's a good term. So, yeah, you're right, because
Speaker 2: people do you think bisentic culture is about people not
Speaker 2: knowing what to do, or they're just gorking and don't
Speaker 2: want to do something, or don't want to get involved,
Speaker 2: they get scared themselves, or what do you reckon that is?
Speaker 4: It's a mix of all of that. So there's fear
Speaker 4: not knowing what to do. Also, if there's other people
Speaker 4: around you, they think somebody else will jump in, right,
Speaker 4: so I'll just stay back because yeah, it's not my job,
Speaker 4: it's not my place, it's not my business.
Speaker 1: You know. We also have apathy with bystanders.
Speaker 4: You know, they may think it's wrong, but they're still
Speaker 4: gonna h don't have the time, And I get all
Speaker 4: of that, but it's a numbers game. You know, we
Speaker 4: talk about bullying and abuse of power so much now
Speaker 4: it's increasing, it's not decreasing, And the only way to
Speaker 4: take power away from those who abuse it is to
Speaker 4: call it out, is to take away their anonymity and
Speaker 4: call them out early, because they rely on people being
Speaker 4: silent to continue doing what they do, what they're doing
Speaker 4: because nobody's holding them accountable.
Speaker 2: So are you saying then that in terms of your observations,
Speaker 2: that sort of beyond bullying. I think it's sort of like,
Speaker 2: as you said, abuse of power a power so instead
Speaker 2: of a structural issue that exists that within establishments, whether
Speaker 2: it be government, absolutely, power bases in organizations, body corporates,
Speaker 2: in a building with lots of people issue, do you
Speaker 2: think that people are going out and building power bases
Speaker 2: in these environments and, as you say, remain anonymous, so
Speaker 2: they're faceless, and they're not they're not elected officials, so
Speaker 2: no one has really elected them.
Speaker 3: They have appointed themselves.
Speaker 2: Do you think people are actually going out building these
Speaker 2: power bases in order to exercise that power or do
Speaker 2: you think that they go into these positions and they
Speaker 2: all of a sudden they realize that the power and
Speaker 2: then they just enjoy saying no, yes, or whatever the
Speaker 2: case may be. I mean, what's going on in these
Speaker 2: individuals and why are they doing it?
Speaker 4: Look, I do believe there are people out there that
Speaker 4: just thrive or making other people's lives miserable.
Speaker 3: And are they like professional winges.
Speaker 1: I mean yes, yes, they're insecure. Like, let's just put
Speaker 1: that out there.
Speaker 4: This is how I get through it because some days
Speaker 4: really hard, you know. I definitely I consider myself pretty tough,
Speaker 4: but I'm also human and some days were really hard,
Speaker 4: and you you know, I just had to remind myself.
Speaker 1: These people are.
Speaker 4: So insecure that they've created this mob, you know, because
Speaker 4: it's all about just bringing people in, telling them a
Speaker 4: few lies, giving them a bit of hate campaign material.
Speaker 4: You know, this woman is bad. Half the people that
Speaker 4: hate me more have never spoken to me. They don't
Speaker 4: know me, And to me, that's I feel sad and
Speaker 4: embarrassed for them, because you're not exercising any.
Speaker 1: Individual thought program judgment, no judgment.
Speaker 4: It's a hard mentality and they do thrive on it.
Speaker 4: Because I can tell you I have a few Facebook pages.
Speaker 1: Around bullying and strata and pets and strata and the
Speaker 1: good Warrior.
Speaker 4: I have more people in my personal dms than on
Speaker 4: the pages and the reason is scared. Yep, fear.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I will every now and then and say hi, guys,
Speaker 4: I really can't keep up with the messages.
Speaker 1: Please.
Speaker 4: You know you can post anonymously, but just keep it
Speaker 4: in one space for me. They won't do it, somebody might,
Speaker 4: you know, put two and two together.
Speaker 1: There is a real fear base.
Speaker 4: There is a real issue body corporates are they refer
Speaker 4: to themselves as the fourth tier of government? For goodness sake, Wow,
Speaker 4: that they actually that. I've had letters from other committee
Speaker 4: members in other buildings who I've never met, slagging me
Speaker 4: off and referring to themselves as the fourth tier of government.
Speaker 1: I should know better.
Speaker 2: So they're there to govern, they take the vie. They're
Speaker 2: there to govern the building.
Speaker 4: Well, it's more of a dictatorship more than governing. And
Speaker 4: you know, when I don't know, when it comes to
Speaker 4: government and councils, they have a big role to play
Speaker 4: because when we have elected officials and local so called
Speaker 4: independent MPs who are being influenced by stakeholders committee members,
Speaker 4: you know, in ways of no stroking their egos, hosting fundraisers,
Speaker 4: they volunteer for them, then representation of all constituents. Truly,
Speaker 4: it becomes elusive, and it's a tale as old as time.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 4: But in a time where we're being told and guaranteed
Speaker 4: almost that we have heavy governance and regulations, these things
Speaker 4: shouldn't be happening, and they are.
Speaker 1: They absolutely are.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to talk about my own
Speaker 2: experiences experiences with these sort of issues, but they sort
Speaker 2: of sit around the governments. But I think we probably
Speaker 2: should get to the nitty gritty of all this. So
Speaker 2: you're living in the building and you decided you did
Speaker 2: you make an application to have a pet?
Speaker 1: So what happened?
Speaker 4: I moved in, I was told by the real estate
Speaker 4: at some point before we had settled that it wasn't
Speaker 4: pet friendly. And that was a shock to me because
Speaker 4: I said to them, that's impossible. I visit people that
Speaker 4: have pets in this building, So me honestly thinking that
Speaker 4: it was an outdated by law. And so one thing
Speaker 4: that I really took exception two is I was made
Speaker 4: out to be this malicious, evil woman.
Speaker 1: So can we just go back a bit job.
Speaker 2: So you bought the property exchange property? No one said
Speaker 2: it was not pet friendly, etcetera.
Speaker 1: Just before we settled, we did find out.
Speaker 2: So the agent told is not pet friendly? Did you
Speaker 2: ask or did you say? Bring my dog is another cat?
Speaker 1: Will be talking about it as a dog.
Speaker 4: He was a little Angus Schnauzerazer.
Speaker 2: So it's not a big german chep nine kilos was
Speaker 2: on nine kilo. Okay, so we've got a small dog.
Speaker 1: Small dog.
Speaker 4: I mentioned the dog. I mentioned Angus. I mentioned the name,
Speaker 4: and the real estate agent said, no, I didn't know
Speaker 4: you had children.
Speaker 1: I said I don't. I said I have a dog,
Speaker 1: and he said, no dog's allowed in here. And that's
Speaker 1: how the conversation.
Speaker 3: Started before you settled.
Speaker 1: Before we settled, so.
Speaker 4: Me and my husband had a really big chat about it.
Speaker 4: The property ticked all the boxes we had been looking
Speaker 4: for ten months. Wasn't anything sinister? I said to Leo,
Speaker 4: my husband, you know, what do you think? He said,
Speaker 4: let's buy it. Angus was nine at the time. I'll
Speaker 4: put in a submission. Leave Angus with my sister, because
Speaker 4: you know, they got on like a house on fire,
Speaker 4: and if that fails, we'll rent it out. We've still
Speaker 4: bought a property we were interested in and we'll rent
Speaker 4: somewhere else.
Speaker 1: Not a problem.
Speaker 4: Where it went wrong is when I asked the question
Speaker 4: about a meeting that with an EGM that was upcoming,
Speaker 4: and I Strata holders EGM. So yeah, general meeting.
Speaker 1: A general meeting of the owners.
Speaker 4: Correct, sorry, and you were you are it's a legal
Speaker 4: right that you submit a motion to change a bylak.
Speaker 1: Nothing untoward. I was told to put my dog in
Speaker 1: a bag and keep my mouth shut.
Speaker 2: At the meeting before before the meeting, so they had
Speaker 2: a dog in a bag.
Speaker 4: So people the way for eighteen years that they transported
Speaker 4: their pets in and out was in a backpack in a.
Speaker 3: Trolley shopping trolley.
Speaker 2: So when I found out sort of surreptitiously bringing yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking.
Speaker 4: This is arbitrary, this is crazy. So we got grown
Speaker 4: adults smuggling their pets in and I'm thinking this makes
Speaker 4: no sense. So I said to them, surely, when they
Speaker 4: finally got back to me, I said, surely this is
Speaker 4: not mature behavior.
Speaker 3: This is strata manager.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The chair, the chair and the secretary chair of
Speaker 1: the body corporate, of the body corporate.
Speaker 4: So the chair and the secretary, and they were the
Speaker 4: ones to basically tell me if I put the motion forward,
Speaker 4: I would potentially become a target.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if this has come through. I
Speaker 1: detest bullies.
Speaker 4: I test them and I said to them, what do
Speaker 4: you mean I will become a target?
Speaker 1: Is that a threat?
Speaker 4: No, it's just a fact. Okay, so you're aware there's
Speaker 4: pets in the building. Oh yeah, there always has me. Okay,
Speaker 4: I'm going to put that motion in because it's a
Speaker 4: legal right. And I left it at that. A few
Speaker 4: weeks after that, I was coming down the back gate.
Speaker 4: A man opened the gate. I said, thank you. We
Speaker 4: off the premises.
Speaker 1: With all of that dog Angus was not in yet. Yep.
Speaker 4: I thought I was trying to do the right thing.
Speaker 4: And he looks at me and he says, excuse me,
Speaker 4: with utter disgust, looks me up and down, and I said,
Speaker 4: oh yeah. He said, are you that person who's trying
Speaker 4: to change our culture and community? And I said, are
Speaker 4: you talking about I'm assuming you're talking about my motion
Speaker 4: and the meeting hadn't happened yet something okay, words got
Speaker 4: around and I said, yeah, that's me. I said, but
Speaker 4: I'm actually just trying to reflect the reality of.
Speaker 1: What going on.
Speaker 4: Well, you see, we've rid ourselves of millionaires and you,
Speaker 4: you stupid little brown girl, but you'll be gone in
Speaker 4: a week.
Speaker 1: Said that, He said that, What the hell? He said
Speaker 1: it twice.
Speaker 4: I can tell you like, I'm saying this to you now,
Speaker 4: and my body right now is shaking because there was
Speaker 4: this disc there was this disbelief, but also this anger, thinking, wow,
Speaker 4: if this is the reaction to a simple question, there's
Speaker 4: something major going on in this building.
Speaker 2: The extent of the dog, the change of ocean, relation
Speaker 2: to pet pets, or the motion to change the bilas
Speaker 2: and relation to pets extended to calling you one stupid
Speaker 2: two little yep, three brown brown girl or brown and
Speaker 2: girl and girl.
Speaker 1: Because it was never about pets.
Speaker 4: Let's put that on the table. This was never about pets.
Speaker 4: They knew there was pets in the building. They were
Speaker 4: okay with pets in the building as long as you
Speaker 4: put in a bag. This was not about This was
Speaker 4: about abuse of power, pure and simple.
Speaker 3: It was this individual on the body corporing.
Speaker 1: It was a connection to the body corp. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so they have their they have their little clique.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I've been to that process.
Speaker 4: And it's happening all not only in New South Wales.
Speaker 4: I get messages from New Zealand nationwide. I got an
Speaker 4: email from Canada a few months after I won my case.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the easiest road to how'd you feel?
Speaker 2: How did you feel then when that that, when you
Speaker 2: were confronted with that that sentence and also, oh, that's
Speaker 2: the traction.
Speaker 4: Disgusted, really disgusted because discouraged. No, no, no, that that
Speaker 4: was the moment. I can tell you I got over
Speaker 4: the shakes. So I called my husband. He was working
Speaker 4: in Darwin at the time.
Speaker 1: I told him what was.
Speaker 4: Happened, what had just happened, and I said to him,
Speaker 4: if these guys are so arrogant to take me on
Speaker 4: a legal path, because there was already wind of that,
Speaker 4: I said, I'll take this all the way, you know.
Speaker 4: Excuse my language, I said, game on, motherfuckers.
Speaker 2: Totally hello, I'm glad. I mean, I don't know what
Speaker 2: my response. I feel like punching him in there. I
Speaker 2: didn't say would punch him in the head, for those
Speaker 2: who are listening, but I said I would feel like
Speaker 2: punching that.
Speaker 3: I will constrain myself.
Speaker 4: And can I tell you the most exhausting part about
Speaker 4: all of this, The most exhausting was the restraint in
Speaker 4: my response and my emotions, because I knew the moment
Speaker 4: I responded, I was called that's bad.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: I've been called low class. I've been physically assaulted by
Speaker 4: a woman. I've been spat at, I've been called all
Speaker 4: in sundry in this process, in this process, and until
Speaker 4: now about please do nothing?
Speaker 2: Yes, yep, but these are people who are supposed to
Speaker 2: be you know, wealthy, wealthy people who I own, you know,
Speaker 2: like high order people own absolutely something in a very
Speaker 2: famous building, spend a lot of dough. They're probably professional
Speaker 2: people or at least got good incomes to afford these things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's like unbelievable, Like how could they be so
Speaker 2: emotional to let their emotion and so reckless to allow
Speaker 2: their emotions to run away from such a rage?
Speaker 1: Well what about, though.
Speaker 4: About this little person who they deem way beneath them,
Speaker 4: having the guts to challenge them. So, if I take
Speaker 4: it back to bullying and abuse of power, they rely
Speaker 4: on intimidation, they rely on beating you down, and you go, ooh,
Speaker 4: maybe I should You know, this is a bit too scary,
Speaker 4: It's a bit much it's a strategy, and unfortunately I've
Speaker 4: been there. I know what a narcissist is, I know
Speaker 4: what a bully is. I've dating someone who I loved
Speaker 4: who put me in hospital. I know the patterns, and
Speaker 4: I really with the good warrior. Just going back to
Speaker 4: that for a minute, something I teach in that is
Speaker 4: the connection between repeated disrespect that leads to bullying, that
Speaker 4: leads to domestic violence, or violence in general, that ultimately.
Speaker 5: In a lot of cases, leads to tragedy because because
Speaker 5: what's happening is their brains getting rewarded correct continually for
Speaker 5: their behavior correct And because it's.
Speaker 2: Like in the case of bullying, end or abuse of power,
Speaker 2: a lot of times it's behind the door, so as
Speaker 2: it's also not seen.
Speaker 3: It's not visible.
Speaker 2: So I get away with what I do, which no
Speaker 2: one can see anyway, and I get the outcome I want. Personally,
Speaker 2: I want. So these are our personal opinions. Why wouldn't
Speaker 2: I just can't get my head around it. But why
Speaker 2: wouldn't they want a little small dog, probably a cute
Speaker 2: bit a small dog just living inside your apartment. It's
Speaker 2: not like they're it's doing a crap in the hallway
Speaker 2: or something like that.
Speaker 1: You know, I just don't understand why wouldn't they want
Speaker 1: a dog in the building.
Speaker 4: Because it wasn't about the dog. It was the fact
Speaker 4: that these people have never been challenged for eighteen.
Speaker 3: How dare you challenge me?
Speaker 1: How dare you? And who are you? You just moved in?
Speaker 1: Yeah you're a newbie and you're a little brown girl.
Speaker 1: Yeah you've got no long kre. You know the lady
Speaker 1: that called me low class, it couldn't be more cliche.
Speaker 1: I had to laugh. She was wearing pearls and she
Speaker 1: was actually touching them while she was calling me low class.
Speaker 3: I have to do a funny story, not a funny story.
Speaker 2: I had a similar experience and I won't say where,
Speaker 2: but many many years ago, Like many years ago, I
Speaker 2: bought a very expensive apartment in a pretty well known building,
Speaker 2: but in.
Speaker 1: Order to.
Speaker 3: Part of their BiLaw system.
Speaker 2: And it's a bit more complicated this, but I just
Speaker 2: a simplified was that you had to go and have
Speaker 2: an interview with the body corporate to buy to once
Speaker 2: you exchange to settle, because they could stop you from settling.
Speaker 2: So I had to actually had to have an interview,
Speaker 2: and it was twenty around twenty years ago anyway, so
Speaker 2: I was much younger than them today. I was in
Speaker 2: my mid forties, and in those days I used to
Speaker 2: everybody was wearing suits, and in those days, I used
Speaker 2: to wear a dark suit with a dark tie and
Speaker 2: a white shirt and pair of duck shoes. That was
Speaker 2: my that was my dread because I was working in
Speaker 2: environed where I had to dress that way. So I
Speaker 2: was asked coming for the interview. It was during the day,
Speaker 2: coming for an interviews, so I came straight from my
Speaker 2: work to the interview. And at that time, in terms
Speaker 2: of those sorts of clothes that was considered cool, I
Speaker 2: didn't have a colored tie. I had the same colored
Speaker 2: tie as my suit. That was considered a cool way
Speaker 2: to dress. I actually was at that time. I was
Speaker 2: an ambassador of Georgia Money, so that they dressed me.
Speaker 2: I'm not some sort of dude who understands this sort
Speaker 2: of stuff. I'm not a fashion person, but that's how
Speaker 2: Georgia Money wanted to dress me, and I wore their stuff.
Speaker 3: And I did that for a number of years.
Speaker 2: And when I meet this small group of people who
Speaker 2: represented the Body corporate, they're all much older than me.
Speaker 2: And nobody my age lived in the building.
Speaker 1: Nobody my age had kids.
Speaker 2: So I had four kids, young kids, and it was
Speaker 2: just I wasn't married. It's just me and my kids,
Speaker 2: and and I was. They asked me how I was
Speaker 2: going to settle the property and I said, hey, can
Speaker 2: pay cash andy, and they said the whole number comes.
Speaker 2: I had to actually get my accountant to send details
Speaker 2: of my bank account, a sort of stuff to make
Speaker 2: sure I could afford it. And I could afford the
Speaker 2: am you know, the quarterly fees you have to pay
Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff, which is fine. I mean,
Speaker 2: I was in unfortunatesition, no problems. And the guy, the
Speaker 2: older guy, the chairman guy, said to me, he said,
Speaker 2: by the way, he said, have you been to a
Speaker 2: funeral today? I said no, Why would you think that?
Speaker 2: He said, all the way you dressed. He said, you've
Speaker 2: got a dark pseudon and a dark tie. And I
Speaker 2: was looking at him, and he had like a vest on,
Speaker 2: like a three piece type with a vest and a tie.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a day tommy. He was retired.
Speaker 1: I don't know what he was wearing a suit for,
Speaker 1: but yeah, and.
Speaker 2: I thought, I mean, live to himself. They're looking down
Speaker 2: on me. And the person that whose apartment it was
Speaker 2: was a very famous person in the entertainment industry who
Speaker 2: had been effectively kicked out of this building because of
Speaker 2: something that he had done, which was against the bylaws.
Speaker 2: So they effectively, under the bilaws they could force you out,
Speaker 2: they could force you to sell, and that he had
Speaker 2: done something they didn't like. And he was and this
Speaker 2: dude is the guy who you know who's apartment what
Speaker 2: it was was pretty crazy sort of person. He was
Speaker 2: globally known, well known, and was always pushing against the establishment, etc.
Speaker 2: And I guess me too. And in fact, there's a
Speaker 2: book written about this building and they've been a whole
Speaker 2: chapter on this particular individual.
Speaker 3: And I just want to protect people.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say they were, but they just
Speaker 2: assumed this young guy who was me coming into this
Speaker 2: expensive building that they're like, how could he afford it?
Speaker 3: Who was he?
Speaker 1: Why is he a dressed this way?
Speaker 2: So I sort of have experience it, not to the
Speaker 2: extreme that you have that sort of sense of you
Speaker 2: don't believing you coming from out west.
Speaker 1: They didn't call me brown boy or anything that.
Speaker 2: But at the same time they were talking about the
Speaker 2: way addressed h it's derogatory totally, and they're making a
Speaker 2: judgment on me based on what my clothes were. So
Speaker 2: I found it quite amazing. But this is like it's
Speaker 2: probably twenty five years ago now, so it was a
Speaker 2: long time ago. I can't believe that sort of thing
Speaker 2: happens still today.
Speaker 1: It's getting worse. It is getting worse.
Speaker 2: If you were to see your experience, given your your
Speaker 2: business and what you do, you're saying it's getting worse.
Speaker 1: I can't believe, absolutely getting worse. People are getting bullied.
Speaker 4: Everywhere, communities, work, homecause.
Speaker 1: That older people bullying younger people.
Speaker 2: To think, so the establishment, the so called in elite elitism,
Speaker 2: these people who now by the way, we're not talking
Speaker 2: about have to write a politicians were all met the
Speaker 2: elite general, but they consider themselves elite.
Speaker 4: They considered themselves superior. Yes, and they've got this sense
Speaker 4: of entitlement and privilege.
Speaker 2: Fuck them, yeah, fuck them, absolutely, fucking.
Speaker 1: Them and they ruined people's lives.
Speaker 3: And they across the world.
Speaker 2: So like, did you get any system from systems from
Speaker 2: the city council, Sydney City Council.
Speaker 4: I got assistance mark from no one. I if you
Speaker 4: think about the changes that have happened on such on
Speaker 4: the scale that I delivered, you know, there's usually you
Speaker 4: get some people with profiles getting behind you, some corporations
Speaker 4: established for you.
Speaker 1: You know, I change not only state law, it's across
Speaker 1: the nation. We won the case. I won the case
Speaker 1: at the I had to take it to Supreme Court.
Speaker 3: So the case was about the strata titles legislation. Yep.
Speaker 3: So this only applies to strata title buildings.
Speaker 4: Strata schemes and property yep. Yeah, and it has it's.
Speaker 1: What was the outcome of the case.
Speaker 4: So the outcome of the case was about by law.
Speaker 4: So its well beyond pets and this is can I
Speaker 4: just take care? It was generally so what I loved
Speaker 4: and I really want to put this out there because
Speaker 4: I think it's a strong thing. I embrace being underestimated.
Speaker 4: I love it because the people that underestimate you, generally,
Speaker 4: they've just demonstrated how lazy they are in trying to
Speaker 4: understand what makes you tip, what drives you, and that's
Speaker 4: what happens. It's happened to me most of my life.
Speaker 4: But with this case, it was so predictable. They had
Speaker 4: no idea what I was fighting for. Even the media
Speaker 4: made it all about angus, which was great. They won't
Speaker 4: mean about it, but it was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 4: she's fighting for a.
Speaker 1: Cute little dog.
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, I have these you know, people emailing me or
Speaker 4: on the street. Oh you know, I've had thirty years
Speaker 4: in law. We're going to let the Supreme Court deal
Speaker 4: with you. Great, that's also what I'm hoping and counting on.
Speaker 4: You know, they were so blind with rage they couldn't
Speaker 4: see passed that there.
Speaker 1: Was no rationality.
Speaker 4: They totally missed the whole fact that I wasn't fighting
Speaker 4: just for angers. I was changing the whole damn system.
Speaker 4: Because for me, this wasn't about a dog. It was
Speaker 4: very evident early on it wasn't about angers. It was
Speaker 4: about an abuse of power. When I went I went
Speaker 4: to see an email. As many politicians as you can imagine,
Speaker 4: I sent them videos and photos and emails of my abuse,
Speaker 4: trying to demonstrate this is.
Speaker 1: Not about a dog. Didn't even step up. No, not one,
Speaker 1: not one. What about council. Council came on beoreing. Surely
Speaker 1: Clovermore would step up and.
Speaker 2: Say, look, I I'm going to fight for this woman.
Speaker 4: No, no, she didn't. The only credit I will give
Speaker 4: Clover was through Christine Foster. So I started the first
Speaker 4: E petition in New South Wales. Because we were going
Speaker 4: through COVID and we only had the paper petitions. I
Speaker 4: lobbied Gladys at the time we got e petitions in,
Speaker 4: I put the first one in. I needed support with
Speaker 4: this petition. I need twenty thousand signatures. Again, so if
Speaker 4: you anyone can create any petition, you get twenty thousand
Speaker 4: signatures and they have to bring it up in Parliament.
Speaker 4: So my strategy was this, I can say it now,
Speaker 4: and this is what I mean by being underestimated. You know,
Speaker 4: I had three things going on. I had my eye
Speaker 4: on a petition. I had the court system going which
Speaker 4: they initiated. A lot of people accused me of initiating court.
Speaker 3: They took you to court.
Speaker 1: They took me to court. I tried to warn them.
Speaker 1: I actually said to them, let's not go down this path.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so they were seeking.
Speaker 4: A declaration, they were seeking to have me basically. So
Speaker 4: by the time we got to court, so it was
Speaker 4: a few years in. I did bring Angus in openly
Speaker 4: though I said to them I'm bringing him in this
Speaker 4: is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: So the court case.
Speaker 4: And then I had my eye on any bill that
Speaker 4: was being presented in Parliament to put an amendment in,
Speaker 4: to try and get it in that way because I
Speaker 4: thought I didn't know. I didn't know what was going
Speaker 4: to come through for me. I was getting no support.
Speaker 4: Me and my husband were funding this. You can only imagine.
Speaker 4: Our legal bills started in the last quart of twenty fifteen,
Speaker 4: and the first one and the last one was I
Speaker 4: think the first quarter of twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: Wow, do the mats. It wasn't cheap.
Speaker 4: I had no you know, somebody bankrolling me as rumors
Speaker 4: went around and it was crazy. So I had to
Speaker 4: I had to have some strategy going on, which thankfully
Speaker 4: I'm good at. So I had all these things going on.
Speaker 4: We didn't get the twenty thousand for the petition. Christine
Speaker 4: Foster did take my.
Speaker 1: Petitions to Coster. She was a counselor. She's from she's
Speaker 1: on the couch. She was in the Council at the time,
Speaker 1: a voted member of the council. Yes, voted member of council.
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm very thankful for her because she
Speaker 4: did take it to council and Clover did vote in
Speaker 4: favor of that, however, but.
Speaker 3: It's a state legislation though, was a state gonment legislation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it was just about getting for me. It
Speaker 4: was about getting that petition out there to as many
Speaker 4: people's hope you get the signatures. It was token and
Speaker 4: I'll tell you why. I emailed her after saying, now,
Speaker 4: I think the City of Sydney's page had something like
Speaker 4: two hundred thousand plus followers or members. She had shared
Speaker 4: it on her own page, which had way less. So
Speaker 4: I emailed her or contacted the office I can't remember.
Speaker 4: I said, I really really appreciate if you could push
Speaker 4: this out a bit further.
Speaker 1: I need twenty thousand citig natures. That was the end
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 4: She never did anything else, and I mean, you can
Speaker 4: edit this out, but her and Alex Greenwich have a
Speaker 4: very strong alliance, and he was not supporting me in
Speaker 4: any way because he has a strong alliance unfortunately with
Speaker 4: my building.
Speaker 1: Right has he lived there? No.
Speaker 4: They held fundraisers for him, and this is all public record.
Speaker 4: They volunteered for him. I went and saw him three
Speaker 4: times and my opening statement to him was, I know
Speaker 4: you have a relationship with my building.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to give you the benefit of the.
Speaker 4: Doubt that I'm one of your constituents and I need help.
Speaker 4: And he basically went around telling people he doesn't.
Speaker 1: Have to support me. So he's a local independent MP
Speaker 1: state member for this area Sydney, Sydney.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and he is the standing independent member.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeap.
Speaker 1: So we don't have a labor or liberal, we have
Speaker 1: an independence.
Speaker 4: We have an independent so called independent as I like
Speaker 4: to say, and I stand by that, and I've put
Speaker 4: it all over publicly. I have no respect for him
Speaker 4: because he had multiple opportunities to step up, and a
Speaker 4: lot of people will say, well, he doesn't have to
Speaker 4: support you. Absolutely, he does not have to support me.
Speaker 4: Be honest about it. Because when I won, I tell you,
Speaker 4: he was one of the first to get involved and
Speaker 4: say how he was responsible for fixing pets in strata
Speaker 4: and I thought, you have got to be kidding me,
Speaker 4: You have actually got to be kidding me. I actually
Speaker 4: wrote to his office to say, where can I send
Speaker 4: my legal bills if he was responsible, because I didn't
Speaker 4: remember him sitting next to me in.
Speaker 1: The Supreme Court. We're not drawing checks, not drawing checks,
Speaker 1: not doing anything.
Speaker 4: And my issue with that is I am somewhat of
Speaker 4: a resilient personality and when I'm asked why I fight
Speaker 4: cases like is imagine just imagine if this was the
Speaker 4: response somebody got to an innocent question because I didn't
Speaker 4: come at it with any malice. Imagine if it was
Speaker 4: someone who was just on the knife's head. The damage
Speaker 4: that this behavior does to people.
Speaker 1: I know firsthand.
Speaker 3: It's traumatic.
Speaker 4: It's traumatic and sometimes leads to tragedy. And I'm sick
Speaker 4: of it. I'm just sick of it.
Speaker 1: You're calling it out.
Speaker 3: So what was it? I'm going to go to the break.
Speaker 3: But what was the outcome?
Speaker 1: Joe like? So the outcome was that? Sorry, what the
Speaker 1: outcome was?
Speaker 3: Not only in relationships?
Speaker 2: But now what is it? What is it?
Speaker 4: So they have restrictions, There are restrictions on what bylaws
Speaker 4: any scheme can make. So that's what should have happened
Speaker 4: to begin with. Because the Strata legislation is very clunky,
Speaker 4: it's all over the place. It needs to be ripped
Speaker 4: up and started again with. People have got some brains.
Speaker 4: But basically just because the majority voted for it, which
Speaker 4: in my case, it wasn't. It was a majority who
Speaker 4: turned up to vote, which was the minority. Doesn't matter
Speaker 4: if the majority vote for it. If it doesn't meet
Speaker 4: regulations and broader laws, it's not a law.
Speaker 2: It's not a bylaw, right. So so just so I'm
Speaker 2: clear on this, a bye law can't be made in
Speaker 2: relation to how you live your life in your home, inside.
Speaker 1: Your your in your building. It cannot restrict your property rights, right,
Speaker 1: and which sort of makes sense. So that's so going
Speaker 1: back to.
Speaker 4: Where I did get side rights. Sorry, it's so much
Speaker 4: to this story. When I said they weren't paying attention.
Speaker 4: What I was fighting for was property rights.
Speaker 1: Yep, So that was my angle.
Speaker 4: I'm going to go property rights. I know we have
Speaker 4: proper property rights. People think that just because you're in strata,
Speaker 4: you give up your property rights. And thank god, my
Speaker 4: judgment was very well written. Thank you to the three
Speaker 4: judges unanimous vote. You can live your life, just don't
Speaker 4: be disrespectful to your neighbor, right, Really, that's the crux
Speaker 4: of it, and.
Speaker 2: That makes sense to and I'm glad to see the
Speaker 2: court system brought out some common sense.
Speaker 1: They did. Let's go to break and it came straight back.
Speaker 3: And I want to talk about your good the good
Speaker 3: worry business.
Speaker 1: We're back here. I'm doing it to Joe Kuber.
Speaker 2: She just took us through how she got the good
Speaker 2: result in relation to the amendment or the interpretation of
Speaker 2: the legislation by the court system, in relation to her
Speaker 2: petition to the court, that is being that the by
Speaker 2: laws should not be allowed to exclude what you do
Speaker 2: withinside your property. In her case, it was having a dog.
Speaker 2: But it's a broad brought much broader principle. And I
Speaker 2: guess what's really important out of all this, Joe, is
Speaker 2: that sometimes you've got to stand up, not sometimes. It'd
Speaker 2: be great if every time that if something there was
Speaker 2: a good discussion, a fair debate, that you could have
Speaker 2: a fair debate without being bullied from one side. And
Speaker 2: maybe that's sort of what you're talking about here when
Speaker 2: you talk about the good warrior, that your mission and
Speaker 2: being the good warrior. It's about you know, you who
Speaker 2: talks about this or stuff, But it's about people being
Speaker 2: able to prosecute what they truly believe in in a proper,
Speaker 2: valuable debating environment without being sort of stood over or
Speaker 2: outvoted in a stitched up way by people who have
Speaker 2: their agenda already determined. Absolutely absolutely, and there's no you know,
Speaker 2: because in a body corporate situation, for example, there's no judge,
Speaker 2: no one's there. You don't have an independent arbiter sitting there. Arbitrator,
Speaker 2: I should say, you don't have an independent arbitrator. It's
Speaker 2: they have already made the decision and you put up
Speaker 2: your point of view, but they said no, sorry, it's
Speaker 2: not going to happen. And that sort of and because
Speaker 2: it's funny, you know how this works, and society works
Speaker 2: this way, but it's funny people sort of appoint themselves
Speaker 2: as politicians in these environments and because they've got agendas,
Speaker 2: and a lot of times the agenda is just about power.
Speaker 2: I want to have power in this place, make sure
Speaker 2: that this place is run the way I want it
Speaker 2: to be run. It's not a democratic system, not at all.
Speaker 2: There's no democracy work. But how much of that is
Speaker 2: a response to the fact that a lot of people
Speaker 2: in Australia who live in austra environments are apathetic and
Speaker 2: that they just say, oh fuck it, I don't want
Speaker 2: to vote for this.
Speaker 1: I don't give a shit what they do. Let them
Speaker 1: do whatever they want.
Speaker 2: I mean, is there a bit of people take advantage
Speaker 2: of the apathy of all the other members of the building.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, Apathy is a is a big part of
Speaker 1: the problem.
Speaker 4: So all we always know the people abusing power, we
Speaker 4: usually criticize those holding them to account, and we ignore
Speaker 4: the middle and that's where I focus on and the
Speaker 4: middle east silent bystanders.
Speaker 2: I call them the These are the people stood by
Speaker 2: watching you get dragged along by the count.
Speaker 1: They're the majority.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they are the silent majority who sit there, and
Speaker 4: my focus is on them because of multiple reasons. I
Speaker 4: want to mobilize them to one believe in the power
Speaker 4: of their voice to speak up, because like most things,
Speaker 4: it's a numbers game. This situation could have been sorted
Speaker 4: out if most people actual He turned up and said,
Speaker 4: you know, this is ludicrous. You're spending our strike money.
Speaker 4: They didn't fear the intimidation of this building, and many,
Speaker 4: not just this many. It's mind blowing to actually believe
Speaker 4: this is happening in Australia, to be honest, the fear
Speaker 4: of being outcast. I had a man who I was
Speaker 4: with Angus, and I walked into to the lift and
Speaker 4: he looked at me white man in his fifties, and
Speaker 4: I say that for a reason, and he.
Speaker 1: Looks at me.
Speaker 4: You know you have my sympathies. And I looked at
Speaker 4: him and I said, I don't want your sympathy. I
Speaker 4: want your vote, Like, just give me a piece of paper.
Speaker 4: And he went, I don't want to be marked. And
Speaker 4: at that point, it was years in and I'm trying
Speaker 4: to avoid an appeal. So I had won my first
Speaker 4: case and they appealed that decision, and I said to
Speaker 4: I'm just giving my vote. You know it will save
Speaker 4: us all a lot of time and money. He said,
Speaker 4: I don't want to be marked. And I looked at him.
Speaker 1: I said, are you joking me?
Speaker 4: You're a fifty year old mid fifty year old man
Speaker 4: in a building that is so racist. You're scared of
Speaker 4: being marked. What do you think I'm going through? He
Speaker 4: just looked at me because I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I just can't. And that's the mentality of a lot
Speaker 1: of them, the others, because he's got there's nothing in
Speaker 1: for him. But can I tell you about this man?
Speaker 4: A week after I won, he bought it a dog
Speaker 4: and he can't look at me in the eyes. At
Speaker 4: the moment, I've not said anything. I've not made him
Speaker 4: feel terrible, but he just can't look at me, and
Speaker 4: I think to myself, so here I am being made
Speaker 4: to feel less than in this world. My mother stopped
Speaker 4: coming to visit because you know, she's darker than me,
Speaker 4: and she's very timid lady, and you know they would
Speaker 4: steer her down and make her feel.
Speaker 1: Disgusting, so she stopped visiting.
Speaker 3: What nationality North African?
Speaker 1: So my mum's Egyptian. My dad was Sudanese, right, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 3: Why brown, Yeah what they call today brown?
Speaker 2: Whatever? You know.
Speaker 1: I love my skin. I don't I don't care.
Speaker 2: Do you know. I've had journalists right about the color
Speaker 2: of my skin really yeah, like uber tanned. And I
Speaker 2: don't even go on the sun, like I never do this.
Speaker 2: I'm going to go and send if I have a runner.
Speaker 2: I don't sit around some bake and a shit that.
Speaker 2: I'm way too old for that stuff.
Speaker 3: And I'm also too vain.
Speaker 1: I'm too vain.
Speaker 2: I don't want the skin to be ruined bad enough
Speaker 2: as it is. But I had someone right about that
Speaker 2: in a very important publication Australia. Like I just couldn't
Speaker 2: believe some would actually say that about me.
Speaker 1: But that's what matters now. And you look and by
Speaker 1: the way, you know, like I could have.
Speaker 2: Taken the person to task with their you know, with
Speaker 2: the executives of the organization for a form of racism
Speaker 2: at or at least having to go with me about
Speaker 2: my skin color in a public environment.
Speaker 3: And you're right, that sort of stuff does happen.
Speaker 2: As much as incredulous as it seems, that sort of
Speaker 2: stuff does happen, It's probably happens more often now.
Speaker 1: Even though we all talk about.
Speaker 2: You know, we do our our sort of signaling saying, well,
Speaker 2: you know, where inclusive and you know, diverse and all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, sometimes the people are saying that
Speaker 2: are actually some of the worst people.
Speaker 4: Hundred I agree with you on that they're full of
Speaker 4: shit yeah yeah, and a kicker box.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And we don't sort of let everybody exist in a nice, happy, peaceful,
Speaker 2: enjoyable environment.
Speaker 3: And I agree, like, you know, you're right. What I
Speaker 3: doing some on my apartment funk off.
Speaker 4: It's my bisiness unless I'm consistently annoying you. I'm not
Speaker 4: talking about the one off parties because we have to live, right,
Speaker 4: It's it's life, you know, that moving into a close
Speaker 4: community if it's consistent. And I stood up in a
Speaker 4: meeting and I said it, you know, what are we
Speaker 4: fighting for? You know, let's just sit down. I gave
Speaker 4: them so many opportunities with a better outcome for them
Speaker 4: than they have now, because now we have this mountain.
Speaker 4: What are they Burmese dogs a big We've got one
Speaker 4: of them in the lift. He made my day the
Speaker 4: other day.
Speaker 2: They're cool, they're cool, but a lot of those don't
Speaker 2: bark as much as smaller dogs.
Speaker 1: By the way, absolutely absolutely so.
Speaker 4: Now we have all these pets that have come out,
Speaker 4: We've got new dogs, you know, and they are just
Speaker 4: on edge about it.
Speaker 1: But it's like I.
Speaker 4: Offered you so many solutions, weight restraints, you know, type
Speaker 4: of dog.
Speaker 1: They don't have control of that anymore.
Speaker 2: Just you know, it's funny, you know, sometimes I wonder
Speaker 2: to myself, there could be just one person who doesn't
Speaker 2: like the idea, absolutely, but that one person has power
Speaker 2: or contacts within the organization makes the decision, and it
Speaker 2: could have and they could have political connections as well,
Speaker 2: who can actually turn the tide for a whole building.
Speaker 2: In the case where you're talk about three ended people
Speaker 2: So it could be just one person who doesn't like
Speaker 2: either the color of your skin, or doesn't like the
Speaker 2: fact that you're a person with you're seeing color, has
Speaker 2: a dog, or doesn't like the fact you're a female
Speaker 2: with a dog, or it doesn't like like the fact
Speaker 2: that you're a and you're going to stand up to them,
Speaker 2: doesn't like that fact, and they're prepared to influence the
Speaker 2: outcomes for the whole for the whole community, for the
Speaker 2: whole community. And even worse than that, are prepared for
Speaker 2: that strata team, that that strata scheme to spend money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that could have fighting you. Yeah, yeah, and I
Speaker 1: was fighting myself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Conte, you have to concurbage to the same thing.
Speaker 2: But like sometimes it's quite unbelieva that one person or
Speaker 2: two people gang up together, go and have a coffee
Speaker 2: and say, let's get this bitch. Yeah, let's let's get
Speaker 2: the body corporate to.
Speaker 1: Take her on. By the way, it happens in councils, happens,
Speaker 1: it happens across the board. Absolutely. What does the good
Speaker 1: warrior say to that? Enough, No, we have to get
Speaker 1: better at calling it out.
Speaker 2: We have to.
Speaker 4: And when I say that this culture thrives because of silence.
Speaker 4: I'm not It's not an exaggeration. They rely on people
Speaker 4: being silent. It's in everything people that you know physically
Speaker 4: is violence, domestic violence, you know.
Speaker 1: Someone will know about it, someone saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, think about let's go back to Okay, I'll give
Speaker 4: you my example. My first boyfriend that put me in hospital.
Speaker 4: It was only after he put me in hospital that
Speaker 4: people you never really liked him. Yeah, that's great, thanks
Speaker 4: for telling me. Now it's too late. So, and we
Speaker 4: have this habit in society. You know, we wait for
Speaker 4: things to be either popular or a crisis to jump
Speaker 4: on board, or we wait for something somebody to be,
Speaker 4: you know, a high profile before we get.
Speaker 2: Behind them, or we get these as to take a side,
Speaker 2: correct and say someone like you if it's not you,
Speaker 2: if it's just someone who's a little bit more mild
Speaker 2: and meek. Example, they don't ask anyone to take a side,
Speaker 2: whereas the people who are powerful, So I need you
Speaker 2: to take aside, absolutely, and people should have I feel
Speaker 2: compelled Toby to take someone so side. So this business
Speaker 2: are taking sides only works in favor of the people
Speaker 2: who are the most powerful, who are pressing the people
Speaker 2: who are most powerful are the ones to get the side,
Speaker 2: the side takers.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, so they've got the bystanders. You talk about the
Speaker 1: biys sayers at the very beginning, yep.
Speaker 2: They then there is somebody saying it goes on as
Speaker 2: by sentence says, out of the twenty five people there,
Speaker 2: I want you to take a side. It's usually the
Speaker 2: people people without the power never asked that question. No,
Speaker 2: So your your mission is to get people to take
Speaker 2: the side of the less powerful, yes, and become more powerful, to.
Speaker 4: Become Look our individual voices. I will always say this.
Speaker 4: One thing that shocked me through this process is even
Speaker 4: people that were sort.
Speaker 1: Of on the fence.
Speaker 4: You know, you're one person, like, just give it a rest, love, Okay,
Speaker 4: Since when did we give up on the power of
Speaker 4: our voice?
Speaker 1: You know, it all starts with people power. Sometimes annoys me,
Speaker 1: but we have given up on the power of people power.
Speaker 1: We have, absolutely and I want to bring that back,
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: I'm more for that.
Speaker 2: People power, like to me, is the most important thing,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately the world is getting there's too few groups
Speaker 2: and a few banks and if you're insurance companies and
Speaker 2: a few miners only a few phone for companies, only
Speaker 2: a few blah blah blah everything, and they're getting more
Speaker 2: powerful and more powerful and more powerful. And then you
Speaker 2: can and in microsystems like for example, where you live,
Speaker 2: it's the same sort of thing. So there's a powerful
Speaker 2: group in your in your building. And by the way,
Speaker 2: this process cuts across just about everything that we do
Speaker 2: in our lives. Yes, and unfortunately, the people are getting
Speaker 2: pushed down like you wouldn't believe.
Speaker 4: I have a woman that I was dealing with a
Speaker 4: few months ago. I try and help as many people
Speaker 4: as I can, and it gets hard. And that's why
Speaker 4: I'm the Good Worry. I'm hoping to expand as big
Speaker 4: as possible for me. I'd like it to go globald,
Speaker 4: like it to be a place where somebody is so
Speaker 4: intimidated and they think I have nowhere to go. Oh
Speaker 4: the Good Worry, if they'll help me, That's that's my aim.
Speaker 4: Because we have in our society, in our community, we
Speaker 4: have people walking around that could achieve so much if
Speaker 4: they just had a little support and just a little encouragement,
Speaker 4: and they would give back to the community tenfold. But
Speaker 4: they just don't have that support or opportunity, and they've
Speaker 4: either been downtrodden, they've been intimidated.
Speaker 1: You know, we have the power to change our politics,
Speaker 1: our society. We have that power.
Speaker 4: One thing that I cannot believe people said to me is, oh,
Speaker 4: how do you contact government? Can you speak to politicians?
Speaker 1: Yes, you can. You can challenge them, especially if there's
Speaker 1: numbers in it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that was a real wake up call to
Speaker 4: me because I'm thinking, Oh, people really don't know that
Speaker 4: you can challenge authority. It's your duty to challenge authority.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's how I was raised. My father was
Speaker 4: I'm very much my father's child. And I do remember
Speaker 4: something that he said to me, which is why I
Speaker 4: have these set of principles in my life. And it
Speaker 4: makes it really easy to make decisions. It doesn't mean
Speaker 4: the path or the decision I've made is the easy one,
Speaker 4: but it's to do what's right now, what's easy. And
Speaker 4: it was something around you know. So he was Sudanese
Speaker 4: and I don't know if you know much about Sudan
Speaker 4: Usually most people don't. It's not a great country. But
Speaker 4: he has memories when he was young of being okay,
Speaker 4: and he said, at one point, I cannot remember the
Speaker 4: whole situation, but he said, you know, Sudan didn't happen overnight.
Speaker 4: It was because people didn't challenge anything. And that has
Speaker 4: forever stuck with me because and by the way, I've
Speaker 4: always been like this. I cannot remember being any other way.
Speaker 4: You know, in school, if somebody was getting bullied, I
Speaker 4: would jump in down the road. Here, there's lots of issues.
Speaker 1: I don't think and don't do that.
Speaker 2: You know, you do.
Speaker 1: Look at the environment you're in.
Speaker 4: But I am very reactive to helping people when they're
Speaker 4: being hurt. I'm a very passionate and intense personality, and
Speaker 4: sometimes I'm criticized for that, but I believe that it's
Speaker 4: the same passion and intensity that also helps people.
Speaker 1: So you've got to stand for something. So the good Warrior,
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to sorry.
Speaker 2: But in terms of the good Warrior, what would you
Speaker 2: like to say about people who are listening to this
Speaker 2: who maybe have going through the similar sort of issues
Speaker 2: or just curious where do they go?
Speaker 1: Where do they go to the Do you have a website?
Speaker 4: I have a website, so website with an email address
Speaker 4: the good Warrior dot com dot au. Uh, there's lots
Speaker 4: of information on there. I get booked for keynotes for workshops,
Speaker 4: one on ones, intro phone call. I want people to
Speaker 4: start believing in their power. I want them to understand that, yes,
Speaker 4: there are always going to be abusers, that there are,
Speaker 4: but we do have the power to decrease the numbers,
Speaker 4: and we have the power to call them out. And
Speaker 4: I'll harp on about that all the time. The only
Speaker 4: way we're going to win this fight on bullying and
Speaker 4: abuse is to make them known. You know, we have
Speaker 4: all these laws about concealing people who hurt people. Why
Speaker 4: that's you know, I don't believe the protected.
Speaker 2: They say they're protecting the victims, but at the same
Speaker 2: time they're protecting the individual who's caused the problem for
Speaker 2: the victim.
Speaker 1: I just I don't get that. Fuck them, call them out, Yeah,
Speaker 1: call them, cause that's the only way.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I was told once, you're very revengeful, and I said,
Speaker 4: how so you've got to stop calling people out. That's
Speaker 4: not revengeful, that's just I said, that's that's actually prevention.
Speaker 1: That's just been real though. Yeah, but it's prevention. Because
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you can rely on karma if you like.
Speaker 1: That's a lazy excuse, but by calling them out, you've.
Speaker 4: Actually potentially stopped them from doing the same thing to
Speaker 4: I don't know how many other people. And that's my driver.
Speaker 4: It's not about revenge for me, and quite frankly, I
Speaker 4: could have a better life not dealing with this because
Speaker 4: it's not it's not fun, it's not sexy. But I
Speaker 4: have a passion for good people and I want to
Speaker 4: see them thrive, and I want to I want to
Speaker 4: see them take their power back, and ultimately I want
Speaker 4: to crush bullies because I really detest them.
Speaker 1: Joe Cooper, sorry, sorry, Joe Kuber.
Speaker 2: Good on you for creating the good warrior, but also
Speaker 2: good on if for putting on a good fight and
Speaker 2: not enough people around for me, Not enough people around
Speaker 2: these days with passion, drive, energy, and probably more important,
Speaker 2: commitment to a cause and sometimes a thankless cause to
Speaker 2: a cause.
Speaker 1: So well done, Thank you. Can I tell you one
Speaker 1: more thing? Did you?
Speaker 4: My case was just voted number six out of ten
Speaker 4: for the most influential court cases in the twenty first.
Speaker 3: Century on the planet or in Australia.
Speaker 1: I think in Australia.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's I was pretty tough to be that because
Speaker 4: I was like, Okay, it's not got it's not received
Speaker 4: that much recognition.
Speaker 2: Sooner and you're going to go into a law degree
Speaker 2: and become you're going to be. I can see if
Speaker 2: you sort of be coming out a lawyer prosecuting.
Speaker 1: For all those my dad wanted me to be a lawyer.
Speaker 1: I want, but I can sort of see it happening.
Speaker 1: Thanks Jock, Thank you Mark, Thanks
Speaker 5: Intimat intimate, Intimate,