Speaker 1: From Swarts Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: When Anthony Albanese he first became Prime Minister, he began
Speaker 1: dismantling the Superministry of Home Affairs, which had been overseen
Speaker 1: by Peter Dunn. Labour had long opposed a model which
Speaker 1: saw significant power contained within one portfolio and removed ASIO
Speaker 1: and the AFP from Home Affairs. Now, in a spectacular
Speaker 1: reversal and without explanation, Albaneze is making Home Affairs more
Speaker 1: powerful than ever and that's all under the control of
Speaker 1: Tony Burke. Today's special correspondent for the Saturday paper, Jason
Speaker 1: kotsukis on what the move says about Tony Burke's rising
Speaker 1: power and what it means for our national security this Tuesday,
Speaker 1: June tenth, Jason, thanks for speaking with us. This decision
Speaker 1: by alban Easy to rebuild Home Affairs into a superministry
Speaker 1: has a clear winner, Tony Burke. Can you tell me about.
Speaker 2: Him, Daniel. Tony Burke is one of the most influential
Speaker 2: and powerful politicians in Anthony Albanese's cabinet. He's Leader of
Speaker 2: the House, so that means he manages all of the
Speaker 2: government's legislation and other business in the House of Representatives,
Speaker 2: very influential and powerful role. He's also Minister for the Arts,
Speaker 2: which is something that is very dear to Tony Burke's heart.
Speaker 2: If you're ever in a pub late at night in Canberra,
Speaker 2: there's a sort of a chance that you might see
Speaker 2: Tony Burke appear with his band. So he likes to
Speaker 2: play guitar and get all of the caucus, the labor caucus,
Speaker 2: singing along with him. He's also a very prominent factional player,
Speaker 2: long standing member of the New South Wales right. Tony
Speaker 2: Burk's power base is the SDA, the powerful shop distributors union.
Speaker 2: And then lastly he's of course the Minister for Home Affairs,
Speaker 2: and in this second term of the Albanese government, this
Speaker 2: is a very much more powerful Home Affairs than we
Speaker 2: saw in the first term, and Tony Burke is in
Speaker 2: charge of this superministry which is going to give him
Speaker 2: even more power in this cabinet, in this government.
Speaker 1: So the decision itself by Albanezi dis strength and Home
Speaker 1: Affairs is a significant reversal what's actually changing at the ministry.
Speaker 2: When Anthony Albanezi became Prime Minister in May twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: One of the first things he did when he settled
Speaker 2: his new cabinet was that he changed the administrative arrangements
Speaker 2: surrounding Home Affairs and took away some of the key
Speaker 2: agency that Malcolm Turnbull had kind of had given to
Speaker 2: or assigned to Home Affairs.
Speaker 3: Prime Ministery's downsize the Home Affairs Department under a sweeping
Speaker 3: overhaul of the public service. The changes will give Attorney
Speaker 3: General Mark Dreyfus responsibility for criminal law enforcement and policy,
Speaker 3: including the Australian Federal Police.
Speaker 2: So Anthony Albanez he took away the Australian Federal Police,
Speaker 2: he took away Ostrak, which is the financial crimes regulator.
Speaker 2: He also took away things like cyber crime and he
Speaker 2: returned that to the Department of the Attorney General. And
Speaker 2: then when he had a reshuffle in July last year,
Speaker 2: Anthony Albaneze went a step further and he took away
Speaker 2: the Australian Security Intelligence Organization, this is our domestic intelligence agency,
Speaker 2: and he returned that to the Department of the Attorney General.
Speaker 2: So after that reshuffle last year we had a very
Speaker 2: much diminished Department of Home Affairs. Now, following Anthon Albanese's
Speaker 2: thumping election win, Anthony Albanzi has reversed all of those
Speaker 2: changes and brought back into Home Affairs azo the afp
Speaker 2: Ostrak and some of those other functions. He's actually made
Speaker 2: it a more powerful ministry than it was under Scott
Speaker 2: Morrison's prime ministership and under Malcolm Turnbull's prime ministership. It
Speaker 2: also deals with immigration, and you would have to say
Speaker 2: that Tony Burke is going to be a very busy
Speaker 2: minister in this second term of the Albanzi government.
Speaker 1: So, as you told us earlier, Labor opposed the creation
Speaker 1: of this suit administry, then in its first term began
Speaker 1: downsizing it. So what's changed since then, Well, at.
Speaker 2: The time they justified making these changes on the basis
Speaker 2: that Mark Dreyfuss, very senior legal mind in the Labor caucus,
Speaker 2: the Attorney General, he was of the view that law enforcement,
Speaker 2: both related to the AFB and AZIO, belonged with the
Speaker 2: Chief Law Officer. That he felt that it was very
Speaker 2: important that he, as Attorney General, in his department, oversee
Speaker 2: the activities of these two very key agencies. But I
Speaker 2: think that all changed toward the end of January this year,
Speaker 2: when news of this caravan laden with explosives was discovered
Speaker 2: in durall in arda suburban.
Speaker 4: Sydney synagogue in the heart of the city and a
Speaker 4: museum that teaches the horrors of the Holocaust had been
Speaker 4: revealed as the two potential targets of that terror plot
Speaker 4: involving a caravan at Jural and.
Speaker 2: When news of that caravan first broke in late January,
Speaker 2: the Premier of New South Wales, Chris Mins, said that
Speaker 2: this was potentially a very serious terrorist incident that was thwarted.
Speaker 5: POLISA were made aware of a van with explosive material
Speaker 5: located in it in Dura. They've been conducting investigations into
Speaker 5: the site, into the van, into the owners of the
Speaker 5: van and any associates of the owners of that van
Speaker 5: since that time.
Speaker 1: Now I was briefed about the van.
Speaker 2: So Chris Mins had received a briefing from the New
Speaker 2: South Wales Police and when he was up before the
Speaker 2: media in Sydney he was across all the details. But
Speaker 2: when the Prime Minister was asked about it the next day,
Speaker 2: he hadn't received the same briefings that Chris Mins had.
Speaker 2: That was because the Australian Federal Police didn't really believe
Speaker 2: that this was a terrorist incident that had been thwarted.
Speaker 2: They thought it was more likely to be a hoax,
Speaker 2: and they hadn't felt that it was necessary to brief
Speaker 2: either the Attorney General or the Prime Minister. But what
Speaker 2: happened was just a few weeks out from an election.
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister looked like he'd been caught unawares. He
Speaker 2: was unprepared, but he was kind of blindsided. And I
Speaker 2: think behind the scenes, Anthony Albinezi and Tony Burke decided
Speaker 2: that if they won the election that they were going
Speaker 2: to get all of these national security agencies back under
Speaker 2: the Home Affairs roof. They thought that this would prevent
Speaker 2: that kind of situation happening again, where you know neither
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister or the Home Affairs Minister or the
Speaker 2: Journey General you are being briefed by the AFP on
Speaker 2: incidents like this Dural caravan incident.
Speaker 1: Coming up after the break the security and political ramifications
Speaker 1: of concentrated power. Jason Anthony Albanezi has pointed to information
Speaker 1: sharing failures in the wake of the Dural caravan hoax
Speaker 1: as the reason for wanting to return over sight of
Speaker 1: the AFP and ASIA the Home Affairs. What do experts
Speaker 1: you've been speaking to you make of that reasoning.
Speaker 2: Daniel I spoke to one camera insider with very deep
Speaker 2: experience inside the national security space here in Canberra, and
Speaker 2: this person found the Prime Minister's justification for these changes
Speaker 2: that there was a communication breakdown around the Dural caravan
Speaker 2: incident to be simply bizarre. This person noted that AZ
Speaker 2: and the AFP report to ministers, they do not report
Speaker 2: to secretaries of departments, and he argued that the kind
Speaker 2: of communication breakdown that we saw around the Dural caravan
Speaker 2: incident would have occurred whether AZ and the AFP reported
Speaker 2: to the same minister or not, so it didn't really
Speaker 2: matter in this person's view if AFP and the ASIA
Speaker 2: were part of the Department of the Attorney General or
Speaker 2: Home Affairs. The bottom line is they didn't actually believe
Speaker 2: that this was a real terrorist incident. That's why they
Speaker 2: didn't brief the relevant minister. And I think in this
Speaker 2: insider's view, the more likely explanation for the changes lies
Speaker 2: in politics, specifically the the elevation of Tony Burke and
Speaker 2: the removal of Mark Drefers.
Speaker 1: So what's beyond that? Political calculation.
Speaker 2: Well, Tony Burke has been a close ally of the
Speaker 2: Prime ministers for quite a long time. In the wake
Speaker 2: of the twenty nineteen federal election loss. This is the
Speaker 2: election that Bill short And of course was so heavily
Speaker 2: favored to win but just didn't make it. In the
Speaker 2: wake of that election defeat, Tony Burke was an important
Speaker 2: source of support for Anthony Albanesi. He even backed Albanesi
Speaker 2: against his own factional colleague Chris Bowen, and I think
Speaker 2: that's created a rift within the New South Wales Right
Speaker 2: that hasn't healed. Tony Burke is a bit on his
Speaker 2: own within that faction. So I think Anthony Albanese is
Speaker 2: very grateful to Tony Burke for that support that he provided,
Speaker 2: helping him secure the leadership and then ultimately the prime ministership.
Speaker 2: So I think that's probably part of this political calculation here,
Speaker 2: that giving Tony Burke more power is a way of
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister kind of helping Tony Burke's career at
Speaker 2: a time that he is probably looking to expand his
Speaker 2: role in influence in Cambra.
Speaker 1: You've mentioned the amount of power that this reversal has
Speaker 1: given Tony Burke beyond the Prime Minister. Does this now
Speaker 1: making the most powerful politician in Canberra?
Speaker 2: Well, I think he is one of them. There's other ministers,
Speaker 2: of course, who have a considerable amount of power and influence.
Speaker 2: Penny Wong the Foreign Minister, Mark Butler, the Minister for
Speaker 2: Health who is also very close to the Prime Minister,
Speaker 2: Katie Gallagher the Minister for Finance, and of course Jim
Speaker 2: Chalmers the Treasurer, and Richard Miles, the Defense Minister and
Speaker 2: Deputy Prime Minister. But Tony Burke is certainly in that
Speaker 2: elite leadership group, and just given the amount of agencies
Speaker 2: and government muscle that he's now a master of, you'd
Speaker 2: have to say that he is definitely one of the
Speaker 2: most powerful and influential ministers in the government, and yeah,
Speaker 2: one of the most powerful politicians in Canberra.
Speaker 1: So are we seeing him being anointed as a potential
Speaker 1: future leader?
Speaker 2: I don't think this is an anointing of Tony Burke,
Speaker 2: but it certainly does put him in a position where
Speaker 2: he can show off his political skills. He's already done
Speaker 2: a very good job in shutting down a lot of
Speaker 2: the controversies around time, affairs that were sort of bubbling
Speaker 2: up in the national media from time to time, so
Speaker 2: I think he's already shown what a good politician he is.
Speaker 2: He's also someone who signaled his leadership ambitions quite openly
Speaker 2: over the years, and I think it does help Tony
Speaker 2: Burke build up his power base. And you'd have to
Speaker 2: think that Tony Burke is a dark horse in the
Speaker 2: future labor leadership race. Yet the moment, the media's attention
Speaker 2: is probably more focused on Jim Chalmers. He's the government's
Speaker 2: best communicator, but that doesn't mean that he's got the
Speaker 2: numbers to win the labor leadership. And I think Tony
Speaker 2: Burke is someone who's probably very focused on shoring up
Speaker 2: his support within the Labor caucus. And I think he's
Speaker 2: got a very close relationship with the Prime Minister, and
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be helpful to him whenever
Speaker 2: that day arrives that he decides to put his hand
Speaker 2: up for the leadership.
Speaker 1: Jason, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Daniel, great to be with you. Thanks very much.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, protests in Los Angeles over
Speaker 1: federal immigration rates have entered a third day, with violent
Speaker 1: clashes between demonstrators and law enforcement. President Trump has deployed
Speaker 1: the National Guard, a move Californian Governor Gavin Newsom and
Speaker 1: Mayor Karen Bass have condemned as unlawful and provocative. The
Speaker 1: deployment bypassed the state government, invoking rarely used federal powers
Speaker 1: not exercised in California since nineteen sixty five. And Scott
Speaker 1: Morrison has received Australia's highest honor, the Companion of the
Speaker 1: Order of Australia, for his role during the COVID nineteen crisis.
Speaker 1: The former Prime Minister said the award recognizes the resilience
Speaker 1: of Australians, not just his leadership. But the announcement has
Speaker 1: drawn criticism, with some questioning the decision to honor a
Speaker 1: leader still under scrutiny for secretly apporting himself to multiple
Speaker 1: ministries during the pandemic. Thanks for listening to seven AM.
Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow, yeah,