WEBVTT - Albanese’s ‘bizarre’ reversal at Home Affairs

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<v Speaker 1>From Swarts Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>When Anthony Albanese he first became Prime Minister, he began

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<v Speaker 1>dismantling the Superministry of Home Affairs, which had been overseen

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<v Speaker 1>by Peter Dunn. Labour had long opposed a model which

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<v Speaker 1>saw significant power contained within one portfolio and removed ASIO

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<v Speaker 1>and the AFP from Home Affairs. Now, in a spectacular

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<v Speaker 1>reversal and without explanation, Albaneze is making Home Affairs more

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<v Speaker 1>powerful than ever and that's all under the control of

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Burke. Today's special correspondent for the Saturday paper, Jason

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<v Speaker 1>kotsukis on what the move says about Tony Burke's rising

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<v Speaker 1>power and what it means for our national security this Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 1>June tenth, Jason, thanks for speaking with us. This decision

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<v Speaker 1>by alban Easy to rebuild Home Affairs into a superministry

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<v Speaker 1>has a clear winner, Tony Burke. Can you tell me about.

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<v Speaker 2>Him, Daniel. Tony Burke is one of the most influential

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<v Speaker 2>and powerful politicians in Anthony Albanese's cabinet. He's Leader of

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<v Speaker 2>the House, so that means he manages all of the

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<v Speaker 2>government's legislation and other business in the House of Representatives,

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<v Speaker 2>very influential and powerful role. He's also Minister for the Arts,

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<v Speaker 2>which is something that is very dear to Tony Burke's heart.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're ever in a pub late at night in Canberra,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a sort of a chance that you might see

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<v Speaker 2>Tony Burke appear with his band. So he likes to

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<v Speaker 2>play guitar and get all of the caucus, the labor caucus,

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<v Speaker 2>singing along with him. He's also a very prominent factional player,

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<v Speaker 2>long standing member of the New South Wales right. Tony

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<v Speaker 2>Burk's power base is the SDA, the powerful shop distributors union.

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<v Speaker 2>And then lastly he's of course the Minister for Home Affairs,

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<v Speaker 2>and in this second term of the Albanese government, this

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<v Speaker 2>is a very much more powerful Home Affairs than we

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<v Speaker 2>saw in the first term, and Tony Burke is in

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<v Speaker 2>charge of this superministry which is going to give him

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<v Speaker 2>even more power in this cabinet, in this government.

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<v Speaker 1>So the decision itself by Albanezi dis strength and Home

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<v Speaker 1>Affairs is a significant reversal what's actually changing at the ministry.

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<v Speaker 2>When Anthony Albanezi became Prime Minister in May twenty twenty two.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the first things he did when he settled

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<v Speaker 2>his new cabinet was that he changed the administrative arrangements

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<v Speaker 2>surrounding Home Affairs and took away some of the key

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<v Speaker 2>agency that Malcolm Turnbull had kind of had given to

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<v Speaker 2>or assigned to Home Affairs.

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<v Speaker 3>Prime Ministery's downsize the Home Affairs Department under a sweeping

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<v Speaker 3>overhaul of the public service. The changes will give Attorney

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<v Speaker 3>General Mark Dreyfus responsibility for criminal law enforcement and policy,

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<v Speaker 3>including the Australian Federal Police.

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<v Speaker 2>So Anthony Albanez he took away the Australian Federal Police,

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<v Speaker 2>he took away Ostrak, which is the financial crimes regulator.

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<v Speaker 2>He also took away things like cyber crime and he

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<v Speaker 2>returned that to the Department of the Attorney General. And

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<v Speaker 2>then when he had a reshuffle in July last year,

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<v Speaker 2>Anthony Albaneze went a step further and he took away

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<v Speaker 2>the Australian Security Intelligence Organization, this is our domestic intelligence agency,

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<v Speaker 2>and he returned that to the Department of the Attorney General.

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<v Speaker 2>So after that reshuffle last year we had a very

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<v Speaker 2>much diminished Department of Home Affairs. Now, following Anthon Albanese's

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<v Speaker 2>thumping election win, Anthony Albanzi has reversed all of those

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<v Speaker 2>changes and brought back into Home Affairs azo the afp

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<v Speaker 2>Ostrak and some of those other functions. He's actually made

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<v Speaker 2>it a more powerful ministry than it was under Scott

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<v Speaker 2>Morrison's prime ministership and under Malcolm Turnbull's prime ministership. It

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<v Speaker 2>also deals with immigration, and you would have to say

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<v Speaker 2>that Tony Burke is going to be a very busy

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<v Speaker 2>minister in this second term of the Albanzi government.

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<v Speaker 1>So, as you told us earlier, Labor opposed the creation

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<v Speaker 1>of this suit administry, then in its first term began

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<v Speaker 1>downsizing it. So what's changed since then, Well, at.

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<v Speaker 2>The time they justified making these changes on the basis

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<v Speaker 2>that Mark Dreyfuss, very senior legal mind in the Labor caucus,

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<v Speaker 2>the Attorney General, he was of the view that law enforcement,

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<v Speaker 2>both related to the AFB and AZIO, belonged with the

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<v Speaker 2>Chief Law Officer. That he felt that it was very

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<v Speaker 2>important that he, as Attorney General, in his department, oversee

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<v Speaker 2>the activities of these two very key agencies. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think that all changed toward the end of January this year,

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<v Speaker 2>when news of this caravan laden with explosives was discovered

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<v Speaker 2>in durall in arda suburban.

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<v Speaker 4>Sydney synagogue in the heart of the city and a

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<v Speaker 4>museum that teaches the horrors of the Holocaust had been

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<v Speaker 4>revealed as the two potential targets of that terror plot

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<v Speaker 4>involving a caravan at Jural and.

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<v Speaker 2>When news of that caravan first broke in late January,

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<v Speaker 2>the Premier of New South Wales, Chris Mins, said that

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<v Speaker 2>this was potentially a very serious terrorist incident that was thwarted.

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<v Speaker 5>POLISA were made aware of a van with explosive material

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<v Speaker 5>located in it in Dura. They've been conducting investigations into

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<v Speaker 5>the site, into the van, into the owners of the

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<v Speaker 5>van and any associates of the owners of that van

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<v Speaker 5>since that time.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I was briefed about the van.

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<v Speaker 2>So Chris Mins had received a briefing from the New

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<v Speaker 2>South Wales Police and when he was up before the

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<v Speaker 2>media in Sydney he was across all the details. But

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<v Speaker 2>when the Prime Minister was asked about it the next day,

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<v Speaker 2>he hadn't received the same briefings that Chris Mins had.

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<v Speaker 2>That was because the Australian Federal Police didn't really believe

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<v Speaker 2>that this was a terrorist incident that had been thwarted.

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<v Speaker 2>They thought it was more likely to be a hoax,

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<v Speaker 2>and they hadn't felt that it was necessary to brief

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<v Speaker 2>either the Attorney General or the Prime Minister. But what

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<v Speaker 2>happened was just a few weeks out from an election.

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<v Speaker 2>The Prime Minister looked like he'd been caught unawares. He

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<v Speaker 2>was unprepared, but he was kind of blindsided. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think behind the scenes, Anthony Albinezi and Tony Burke decided

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<v Speaker 2>that if they won the election that they were going

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<v Speaker 2>to get all of these national security agencies back under

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<v Speaker 2>the Home Affairs roof. They thought that this would prevent

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of situation happening again, where you know neither

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<v Speaker 2>the Prime Minister or the Home Affairs Minister or the

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<v Speaker 2>Journey General you are being briefed by the AFP on

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<v Speaker 2>incidents like this Dural caravan incident.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up after the break the security and political ramifications

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<v Speaker 1>of concentrated power. Jason Anthony Albanezi has pointed to information

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<v Speaker 1>sharing failures in the wake of the Dural caravan hoax

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<v Speaker 1>as the reason for wanting to return over sight of

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<v Speaker 1>the AFP and ASIA the Home Affairs. What do experts

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<v Speaker 1>you've been speaking to you make of that reasoning.

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<v Speaker 2>Daniel I spoke to one camera insider with very deep

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<v Speaker 2>experience inside the national security space here in Canberra, and

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<v Speaker 2>this person found the Prime Minister's justification for these changes

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<v Speaker 2>that there was a communication breakdown around the Dural caravan

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<v Speaker 2>incident to be simply bizarre. This person noted that AZ

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<v Speaker 2>and the AFP report to ministers, they do not report

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<v Speaker 2>to secretaries of departments, and he argued that the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of communication breakdown that we saw around the Dural caravan

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<v Speaker 2>incident would have occurred whether AZ and the AFP reported

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<v Speaker 2>to the same minister or not, so it didn't really

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<v Speaker 2>matter in this person's view if AFP and the ASIA

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<v Speaker 2>were part of the Department of the Attorney General or

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<v Speaker 2>Home Affairs. The bottom line is they didn't actually believe

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<v Speaker 2>that this was a real terrorist incident. That's why they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't brief the relevant minister. And I think in this

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<v Speaker 2>insider's view, the more likely explanation for the changes lies

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<v Speaker 2>in politics, specifically the the elevation of Tony Burke and

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<v Speaker 2>the removal of Mark Drefers.

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<v Speaker 1>So what's beyond that? Political calculation.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Tony Burke has been a close ally of the

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<v Speaker 2>Prime ministers for quite a long time. In the wake

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<v Speaker 2>of the twenty nineteen federal election loss. This is the

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<v Speaker 2>election that Bill short And of course was so heavily

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<v Speaker 2>favored to win but just didn't make it. In the

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<v Speaker 2>wake of that election defeat, Tony Burke was an important

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<v Speaker 2>source of support for Anthony Albanesi. He even backed Albanesi

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<v Speaker 2>against his own factional colleague Chris Bowen, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>that's created a rift within the New South Wales Right

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<v Speaker 2>that hasn't healed. Tony Burke is a bit on his

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<v Speaker 2>own within that faction. So I think Anthony Albanese is

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<v Speaker 2>very grateful to Tony Burke for that support that he provided,

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<v Speaker 2>helping him secure the leadership and then ultimately the prime ministership.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that's probably part of this political calculation here,

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<v Speaker 2>that giving Tony Burke more power is a way of

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<v Speaker 2>the Prime Minister kind of helping Tony Burke's career at

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<v Speaker 2>a time that he is probably looking to expand his

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<v Speaker 2>role in influence in Cambra.

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<v Speaker 1>You've mentioned the amount of power that this reversal has

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<v Speaker 1>given Tony Burke beyond the Prime Minister. Does this now

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<v Speaker 1>making the most powerful politician in Canberra?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think he is one of them. There's other ministers,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, who have a considerable amount of power and influence.

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<v Speaker 2>Penny Wong the Foreign Minister, Mark Butler, the Minister for

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<v Speaker 2>Health who is also very close to the Prime Minister,

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<v Speaker 2>Katie Gallagher the Minister for Finance, and of course Jim

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<v Speaker 2>Chalmers the Treasurer, and Richard Miles, the Defense Minister and

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<v Speaker 2>Deputy Prime Minister. But Tony Burke is certainly in that

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<v Speaker 2>elite leadership group, and just given the amount of agencies

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<v Speaker 2>and government muscle that he's now a master of, you'd

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<v Speaker 2>have to say that he is definitely one of the

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<v Speaker 2>most powerful and influential ministers in the government, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the most powerful politicians in Canberra.

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<v Speaker 1>So are we seeing him being anointed as a potential

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<v Speaker 1>future leader?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think this is an anointing of Tony Burke,

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<v Speaker 2>but it certainly does put him in a position where

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<v Speaker 2>he can show off his political skills. He's already done

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<v Speaker 2>a very good job in shutting down a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the controversies around time, affairs that were sort of bubbling

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<v Speaker 2>up in the national media from time to time, so

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<v Speaker 2>I think he's already shown what a good politician he is.

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<v Speaker 2>He's also someone who signaled his leadership ambitions quite openly

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<v Speaker 2>over the years, and I think it does help Tony

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<v Speaker 2>Burke build up his power base. And you'd have to

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<v Speaker 2>think that Tony Burke is a dark horse in the

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<v Speaker 2>future labor leadership race. Yet the moment, the media's attention

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<v Speaker 2>is probably more focused on Jim Chalmers. He's the government's

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<v Speaker 2>best communicator, but that doesn't mean that he's got the

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<v Speaker 2>numbers to win the labor leadership. And I think Tony

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<v Speaker 2>Burke is someone who's probably very focused on shoring up

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<v Speaker 2>his support within the Labor caucus. And I think he's

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<v Speaker 2>got a very close relationship with the Prime Minister, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's going to be helpful to him whenever

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<v Speaker 2>that day arrives that he decides to put his hand

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<v Speaker 2>up for the leadership.

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<v Speaker 1>Jason, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Daniel, great to be with you. Thanks very much.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, protests in Los Angeles over

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<v Speaker 1>federal immigration rates have entered a third day, with violent

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<v Speaker 1>clashes between demonstrators and law enforcement. President Trump has deployed

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<v Speaker 1>the National Guard, a move Californian Governor Gavin Newsom and

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<v Speaker 1>Mayor Karen Bass have condemned as unlawful and provocative. The

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<v Speaker 1>deployment bypassed the state government, invoking rarely used federal powers

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<v Speaker 1>not exercised in California since nineteen sixty five. And Scott

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<v Speaker 1>Morrison has received Australia's highest honor, the Companion of the

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<v Speaker 1>Order of Australia, for his role during the COVID nineteen crisis.

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<v Speaker 1>The former Prime Minister said the award recognizes the resilience

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<v Speaker 1>of Australians, not just his leadership. But the announcement has

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<v Speaker 1>drawn criticism, with some questioning the decision to honor a

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<v Speaker 1>leader still under scrutiny for secretly apporting himself to multiple

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<v Speaker 1>ministries during the pandemic. Thanks for listening to seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be back tomorrow, yeah,