1 00:00:11,539 --> 00:00:14,980 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Australian's Money Puzzle Podcast. I'm 2 00:00:15,010 --> 00:00:18,450 Speaker 1: James Kirby, the Wealth Editor at The Australian. Welcome aboard, everybody. 3 00:00:18,989 --> 00:00:22,509 Speaker 1: I imagine, like me, like everyone, you've been watching the 4 00:00:22,570 --> 00:00:25,630 Speaker 1: share market coming right just in time, really, the last 5 00:00:25,710 --> 00:00:29,170 Speaker 1: month or two for the financial year. And we're looking 6 00:00:29,330 --> 00:00:33,410 Speaker 1: at double-digit returns. We're looking at total returns for the 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: Australian market. If we ruled off today, we'd come in 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: easy at about 11% or 12% pre-franking. And there's a 9 00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: few days to go. And if anything, it might be 10 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,130 Speaker 1: better than that. Even 10 days ago, it was a 11 00:00:47,150 --> 00:00:50,209 Speaker 1: few percent higher. It moves around. So I think people 12 00:00:50,650 --> 00:00:53,830 Speaker 1: are getting interested. I've certainly detected, and you can see 13 00:00:53,850 --> 00:00:56,410 Speaker 1: it in the trading volumes and the reports from the 14 00:00:56,450 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: various operators about what's being traded and the volumes being 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: traded and the action and the fact that we had 16 00:01:03,580 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: no IPOs. We had no share market floats for so long. 17 00:01:06,819 --> 00:01:10,100 Speaker 1: And today we've got a big, fat, juicy IPO, which 18 00:01:10,140 --> 00:01:13,750 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about. the Guzmany gold made float. 19 00:01:14,270 --> 00:01:17,350 Speaker 1: But what I really wanted to talk about was my colleague, 20 00:01:17,370 --> 00:01:19,890 Speaker 1: John Stenshold, friend of the show, though he edits the 21 00:01:19,910 --> 00:01:22,610 Speaker 1: Rich 200 and he's across what all these tycoons do. 22 00:01:22,850 --> 00:01:25,110 Speaker 1: This is a very interesting research a few days ago, 23 00:01:25,430 --> 00:01:28,090 Speaker 1: where he looked at how the very rich, the billionaires, 24 00:01:28,470 --> 00:01:31,330 Speaker 1: have been doing on the share market with their own 25 00:01:31,390 --> 00:01:33,820 Speaker 1: share portfolios, what they've got right, what they've got wrong. 26 00:01:34,060 --> 00:01:36,580 Speaker 1: Some really interesting ones about what they got wrong and 27 00:01:36,620 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: some really interesting ones about who got it right. So 28 00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to have a chat with him today. and 29 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: have a look at what we might find out. How 30 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:45,860 Speaker 1: are you, John? 31 00:01:46,180 --> 00:01:47,020 Speaker 2: I'm very well, James. 32 00:01:47,340 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: Great to have you, Juan. Why don't we go straight 33 00:01:49,420 --> 00:01:54,580 Speaker 1: into the news of the day, because we're so news-edgy 34 00:01:54,620 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: here on The Money Puzzle that we've timed it to 35 00:01:58,140 --> 00:02:02,809 Speaker 1: coincide with the float of Guzmany Gomez, which, in the 36 00:02:02,850 --> 00:02:05,230 Speaker 1: unlikely event people don't know what it is, is a 37 00:02:05,250 --> 00:02:07,470 Speaker 1: fast food chain which is in just about every suburb 38 00:02:07,510 --> 00:02:10,850 Speaker 1: in Australia. It has that unusual attribute that it's got 39 00:02:10,870 --> 00:02:14,619 Speaker 1: a very high Customer visibility, very well-known brand, and this 40 00:02:14,820 --> 00:02:17,900 Speaker 1: often really helps floats, and it really helped Guzman y 41 00:02:17,940 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: Gomez today. Tell us what happened, and tell us which 42 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: tycoon has done well here. 43 00:02:24,020 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: Well, James, yes, if you were reading the financial presses 44 00:02:27,139 --> 00:02:28,299 Speaker 2: in the last couple of weeks, you would have seen 45 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: the huge amount of promotion, I think it feels like, 46 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 2: with the Guzman stock. So we finally got round to 47 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,540 Speaker 2: it floating on the ASX today, being Thursday. $ 22 was 48 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: the issue price. It's gone up to $ 30 today. in 49 00:02:41,260 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 2: that time. I'm not sure what the analogy is with 50 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,339 Speaker 2: a big burrito for that, James, but it's going very well. 51 00:02:46,419 --> 00:02:49,490 Speaker 1: It's a stag burrito, John. People probably forget what a 52 00:02:49,540 --> 00:02:52,130 Speaker 1: stag is because there's been so many bum floats on 53 00:02:52,169 --> 00:02:55,470 Speaker 1: the ASO. They have been aching for a good float 54 00:02:55,550 --> 00:02:58,070 Speaker 1: for so long, a year and a half, roughly. If 55 00:02:58,090 --> 00:03:01,850 Speaker 1: you ignore some sort of absolutely tiny mining exploration stocks 56 00:03:01,889 --> 00:03:03,670 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, a really decent big one. 57 00:03:03,690 --> 00:03:06,660 Speaker 1: So a stag float, for those who don't remember, is 58 00:03:06,780 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: when you buy into a float and it goes really 59 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,580 Speaker 1: well straight away. So look, by the way, you know, 60 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: it's not exactly knocking it out of the park. It 61 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: hasn't doubled or anything, but it's been a damn convincing 62 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,540 Speaker 1: first day for this stock. And there was a sense 63 00:03:22,580 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: that it was highly priced and they widened the IPO 64 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: and took on more shares. That's often a sign of confidence, 65 00:03:28,220 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: but sometimes it backfires and it didn't backfire. So Guzmany Gomez, 66 00:03:32,419 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: a new arrival on the ASX, welcome arrival because the 67 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,070 Speaker 1: stock market has been shrinking in numerical terms. Who's in there, John, 68 00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:41,390 Speaker 1: among the billionaires? 69 00:03:41,890 --> 00:03:43,850 Speaker 2: Well, it's important to know there wasn't necessarily a retail 70 00:03:43,970 --> 00:03:45,610 Speaker 2: sort of element to this, James. It was more the 71 00:03:45,650 --> 00:03:48,110 Speaker 2: existing investors of private equity and other investors that have 72 00:03:48,150 --> 00:03:50,970 Speaker 2: put in. As it's raised funds as a private business 73 00:03:51,010 --> 00:03:53,310 Speaker 2: until we've got to this stage, one of them was 74 00:03:53,430 --> 00:03:56,950 Speaker 2: Peter Cooper from Cooper Investors, the Melbourne stock picker of 75 00:03:57,010 --> 00:04:00,970 Speaker 2: some note, and he's on our riches 250. Cooper these days, 76 00:04:01,190 --> 00:04:03,610 Speaker 2: it manages sort of 12, 13, 14 odd billion dollars. 77 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,380 Speaker 2: It's a lot of stocks. It actually has a founder's 78 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,780 Speaker 2: fund in there as well, where it invests in companies 79 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: that have got significant holdings by their founders. 80 00:04:11,220 --> 00:04:13,420 Speaker 1: So the people with skin in the game, it could 81 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: have been called the skin in the game fund. 82 00:04:15,140 --> 00:04:17,580 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right. That's right. So yes, invest like a 83 00:04:17,620 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 2: founder does, so to speak. So look, I'm not sure 84 00:04:19,620 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 2: whether this one with Guzman goes actually into that fund, 85 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,300 Speaker 2: but Cooper Investors does have a stake in it. So 86 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 2: they are one of the ones that have done very 87 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: well out of what's happened today so far, at least 88 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:28,340 Speaker 2: on paper, right? 89 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,940 Speaker 1: Okay, so he's a guy who's been getting it right. 90 00:04:32,820 --> 00:04:36,620 Speaker 1: In your exercise, when you did this research study on 91 00:04:37,690 --> 00:04:40,589 Speaker 1: how the richest in the country were faring on the 92 00:04:40,870 --> 00:04:44,589 Speaker 1: stock market, who else has either been very successful or 93 00:04:44,630 --> 00:04:46,590 Speaker 1: very lucky in the stocks they picked? 94 00:04:47,010 --> 00:04:49,710 Speaker 2: Well, if you're talking about on good ledger side, I suppose, 95 00:04:49,730 --> 00:04:51,729 Speaker 2: who have done very well, and it's important to remember, 96 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:53,170 Speaker 2: I've only done it since the start of the year, 97 00:04:53,190 --> 00:04:55,090 Speaker 2: so it's a very interesting exercise as to what's happened 98 00:04:55,130 --> 00:04:56,870 Speaker 2: since January 1. Now, some of these people have been 99 00:04:56,910 --> 00:04:59,420 Speaker 2: in it for quite some time. And I think a 100 00:04:59,460 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: really good example of that's actually Mesoblast, which is a 101 00:05:03,779 --> 00:05:06,770 Speaker 2: business that's gone up and down, been a rollercoaster ride. 102 00:05:06,790 --> 00:05:08,810 Speaker 1: The seesaw of Australian stocks. 103 00:05:08,870 --> 00:05:10,270 Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. 104 00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:11,430 Speaker 1: So it's going up these days. 105 00:05:11,790 --> 00:05:14,550 Speaker 2: Right. It's still out there promoting its wares, saying that 106 00:05:14,630 --> 00:05:17,950 Speaker 2: they've got some good positive news out of the FDA. 107 00:05:18,050 --> 00:05:19,410 Speaker 2: I think it is over in the US or the 108 00:05:19,450 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: regulatory authorities. So it's looking good again at the moment. 109 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 2: It turns out that actually Anthony Pratt, who's the cardboard 110 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,430 Speaker 2: box manufacturing magnate has got a small shareholding in it, 111 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 2: a little bit of a family shareholding, I think, because 112 00:05:31,820 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: his brother-in-law, Alex Weislitz, is in there as well, a 113 00:05:34,980 --> 00:05:39,420 Speaker 2: big backer of Mesoblast founder and boss Silvio Teschi. So 114 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,900 Speaker 2: they have offices on the same floor. They go way, 115 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: way back to when they were, I think, doctors back 116 00:05:43,810 --> 00:05:45,380 Speaker 2: in New York in the 80s. So I think somewhere 117 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,229 Speaker 2: along the way, Anthony's been convinced to put in. Now, 118 00:05:47,250 --> 00:05:48,970 Speaker 2: I'm not sure whether he's, I think he's probably still 119 00:05:49,010 --> 00:05:51,650 Speaker 2: down on his initial investment from seven, eight years ago 120 00:05:51,670 --> 00:05:53,550 Speaker 2: or whatever, but yeah, it's up about 250 odd percent 121 00:05:54,820 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: since January 1. So there's a little bit of good 122 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: news for Mesoblast shareholders of late. 123 00:05:58,860 --> 00:06:05,580 Speaker 1: Ah, yes. It's 254% this year so far, which sounds fabulous, 124 00:06:05,940 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: except to say, folks, take a look at the history 125 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,940 Speaker 1: of this company. I think, in a way, Mesoblast is 126 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,420 Speaker 1: one of those stocks. Tell me if you disagree, but 127 00:06:14,460 --> 00:06:17,930 Speaker 1: I think it's a trader stock and that it's stock 128 00:06:17,990 --> 00:06:21,350 Speaker 1: where people write it up and down. And it's become 129 00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: almost like a buy word for a speculative, dare I say, 130 00:06:25,820 --> 00:06:29,300 Speaker 1: fun stock on the local market. I see also then 131 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: you mentioned Alex Weislitz, who is, of course, the brother-in-law 132 00:06:33,430 --> 00:06:36,710 Speaker 1: or was the brother-in-law of Anthony Pratt, to be precise. 133 00:06:37,290 --> 00:06:40,470 Speaker 1: And he was in there. He's also in Clarity Pharmaceuticals. 134 00:06:40,510 --> 00:06:45,130 Speaker 1: That's up 180%. Gina Reinhart. Now, that's Vulcan Energy Resources. 135 00:06:45,150 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: There's a good one, up 72%, as if she wasn't 136 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,370 Speaker 1: doing well enough already on other fronts. But What's that one? 137 00:06:51,390 --> 00:06:54,029 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about Vulcan and why that's 138 00:06:54,110 --> 00:06:55,530 Speaker 1: been such a strong stock. 139 00:06:55,870 --> 00:06:58,710 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jean has made a number of lithium plates in 140 00:06:58,750 --> 00:07:00,410 Speaker 2: the last sort of year or so. One of them, 141 00:07:00,529 --> 00:07:02,810 Speaker 2: Liontown Resources, there's been others along the way as well. 142 00:07:02,850 --> 00:07:06,469 Speaker 2: So her Hancock prospecting has actually got something like between 143 00:07:06,470 --> 00:07:12,330 Speaker 2: $ 1 to $ 1. 5 billion worth on its balance sheet of equities, 144 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 2: mining equities. So she has become a significant investor in 145 00:07:17,380 --> 00:07:19,460 Speaker 2: her own right, as well as the actual mines that 146 00:07:19,500 --> 00:07:22,730 Speaker 2: it owns, the huge you know, mining assets that it 147 00:07:22,770 --> 00:07:25,270 Speaker 2: actually has in its own right. She'd become a mining 148 00:07:25,310 --> 00:07:29,490 Speaker 2: investor too. So yeah, very interesting, sticks to what they 149 00:07:29,510 --> 00:07:31,490 Speaker 2: believe in. I mean, there's a couple, funnily enough, she's 150 00:07:31,530 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: actually got a pharmaceutical cannabis stock, very small holding, but 151 00:07:34,620 --> 00:07:38,300 Speaker 2: otherwise it's all mining. It's all lithium or rare earths plays. 152 00:07:38,340 --> 00:07:42,260 Speaker 2: So she's clearly is a believer in those sectors of 153 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:43,220 Speaker 2: the mining market. 154 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,230 Speaker 1: Investing in what you know. But I suppose what's interesting 155 00:07:46,310 --> 00:07:52,210 Speaker 1: is it's an iron ore tycoon, quite consciously moving into 156 00:07:52,270 --> 00:07:56,790 Speaker 1: future metals, particularly lithium. One of the stocks she's in, Vulcan, obviously, 157 00:07:56,810 --> 00:08:00,950 Speaker 1: where she's met 72% since January. Anything else that comes 158 00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:01,300 Speaker 1: to mind? 159 00:08:01,690 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's in Liontown Resources too. She made a big 160 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:05,940 Speaker 2: play to sort of block the, there was a merger, sorry, 161 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: a takeover bid last year. And in fact, Tim Goiter, 162 00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: who's the big shareholder in Liontown, is on the other 163 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,340 Speaker 2: side of the ledger in this. Look at how people 164 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: on the list are going. So yeah, she's an example 165 00:08:16,220 --> 00:08:19,300 Speaker 2: of ones that do stick to what they know mostly. 166 00:08:20,410 --> 00:08:23,470 Speaker 2: But I think there's some really interesting examples of billionaires 167 00:08:23,510 --> 00:08:26,050 Speaker 2: that were in one sector, but now they're buying into 168 00:08:26,130 --> 00:08:28,420 Speaker 2: sectors that are completely new. And I wanted to bring 169 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: up James Packer in that regard, James. Now, we have 170 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:37,059 Speaker 2: got on our Riches250 list, we've got 28 people on 171 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,250 Speaker 2: that list that have made money from technology stocks or 172 00:08:41,270 --> 00:08:45,910 Speaker 2: technology businesses, startups or the Atlassians of the world and 173 00:08:45,950 --> 00:08:49,910 Speaker 2: so on. And now you need to add James Packer 174 00:08:49,929 --> 00:08:53,870 Speaker 2: to that list. He could be the 29th technology-based, almost 175 00:08:53,929 --> 00:08:56,030 Speaker 2: billionaire now. I'll tell you why, because he is an 176 00:08:56,070 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: investor in NVIDIA. So he bought into NVIDIA in the 177 00:09:00,460 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 2: last quarter of last year, towards the end of 2023. 178 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: He sold out of Crown. What was he going to 179 00:09:06,140 --> 00:09:09,239 Speaker 2: do with his money? He's investing in a string of 180 00:09:09,340 --> 00:09:12,470 Speaker 2: US stocks. And we've written about a little bit over 181 00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:14,849 Speaker 2: the last few months. Check on our margin call section, 182 00:09:14,870 --> 00:09:17,099 Speaker 2: what he's up to. He's been in Meta. He was 183 00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:19,740 Speaker 2: actually in Paramount for a little while, which was ironic, 184 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,179 Speaker 2: given that he, for a while there, he was a 185 00:09:22,490 --> 00:09:25,390 Speaker 2: big backer of Channel 10. NVIDIA has become a big 186 00:09:25,470 --> 00:09:28,790 Speaker 2: player for his. It's $ 900 million worth of shares that 187 00:09:28,830 --> 00:09:29,490 Speaker 2: he has now. 188 00:09:29,990 --> 00:09:33,250 Speaker 1: James Packer almost has a billion in NVIDIA, which is 189 00:09:34,230 --> 00:09:36,670 Speaker 1: on its way rapidly to becoming the biggest stock ever. 190 00:09:37,750 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: Just got to pass out. There's just two to pass out, 191 00:09:40,340 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: Apple and Microsoft. Interesting. That is a really interesting story. 192 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:44,420 Speaker 2: Okay. 193 00:09:44,790 --> 00:09:47,260 Speaker 1: So these are the winners, folks. We're going to have 194 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,460 Speaker 1: some schadenfreude with the losers in a moment. But one 195 00:09:50,500 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: more winner I want to draw attention to, because I 196 00:09:53,740 --> 00:09:57,050 Speaker 1: know the listeners will know James, because they know Gina Reinhart. 197 00:09:57,390 --> 00:10:04,700 Speaker 1: They might know David Chiu. David Cho, T-E-O-H, was one 198 00:10:04,740 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: of the big players in the telco scene here. Fascinating story, TPG. 199 00:10:12,790 --> 00:10:16,850 Speaker 1: The institutional investors absolutely adored him, whatever he did. He 200 00:10:16,870 --> 00:10:21,690 Speaker 1: got out of TPG eventually. And famously, Shai, they had 201 00:10:21,730 --> 00:10:24,790 Speaker 1: an awful job even getting him on investors' calls, as 202 00:10:24,890 --> 00:10:27,750 Speaker 1: I recall. And we only had one picture of him 203 00:10:27,770 --> 00:10:29,630 Speaker 1: for a long time, John, getting into a car. I 204 00:10:30,050 --> 00:10:31,810 Speaker 1: presume we still have just the one picture of him 205 00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:33,370 Speaker 1: getting into a car. Yeah. 206 00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:35,950 Speaker 2: Well, famously, I think he actually backed over the photographer 207 00:10:35,970 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 2: in that case, would you believe, one day outside his house. No, 208 00:10:39,100 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: he did. When TPG was merging with Vodafone a few 209 00:10:43,100 --> 00:10:46,140 Speaker 2: years ago, he had to go to the federal court, apparently. 210 00:10:46,530 --> 00:10:47,949 Speaker 2: front of the court, but as part of that sort 211 00:10:47,970 --> 00:10:50,130 Speaker 2: of rigmarole that you go through on a big merger 212 00:10:50,170 --> 00:10:53,030 Speaker 2: like that. So photos are actually taken of him going 213 00:10:53,050 --> 00:10:56,540 Speaker 2: into court. So we've got photos of him going into court. Yeah, well-dressed. 214 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,330 Speaker 2: He's got his shirt and tie on and so on. 215 00:10:58,340 --> 00:11:01,020 Speaker 2: It's not exactly a staged photo, but it's better than 216 00:11:01,059 --> 00:11:03,980 Speaker 2: probably running over a photographer in the process. So yes, 217 00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:08,179 Speaker 2: TPG was his big payday. So his wife, Vicky, they 218 00:11:08,570 --> 00:11:11,910 Speaker 2: founded it when they moved to Australia from Malaysia. 1986, 219 00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:14,579 Speaker 2: he had built it up from Yeah, I remember it 220 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,239 Speaker 2: was an internet services provider in those early days with 221 00:11:17,260 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: the internet and built it up into a telco. And 222 00:11:20,740 --> 00:11:23,140 Speaker 2: he's still a big shareholder in TPG. But yeah, the 223 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,660 Speaker 2: stock that I'm really interested in what he's into these 224 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,219 Speaker 2: days is his most recent play, which is called Tuas 225 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,620 Speaker 2: or T-U-A-S. It actually owns the sort of emerging telco 226 00:11:33,700 --> 00:11:36,900 Speaker 2: business over in Singapore. And it's a low cost brand, right? 227 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,070 Speaker 2: So it's Simba Telecom. It's actually up about 35% this 228 00:11:40,110 --> 00:11:42,850 Speaker 2: year on the ASX. And it's been a really, really 229 00:11:42,890 --> 00:11:44,540 Speaker 2: good stock. Australian listed. 230 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:50,300 Speaker 1: So the Australian listed Singapore sort of active telco startup. 231 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:51,980 Speaker 1: Is that a fair description? 232 00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And look, low cost sort of disrupted 233 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 2: to the established players over that way. And some of 234 00:11:58,860 --> 00:12:02,260 Speaker 2: the institutions that backed him and previously have sort of 235 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:03,790 Speaker 2: backed him in this as well. And it's become a 236 00:12:04,780 --> 00:12:06,929 Speaker 2: pretty big company in its own right. And it's doing 237 00:12:06,970 --> 00:12:10,309 Speaker 2: quite well. And again, David and his family are pretty 238 00:12:10,350 --> 00:12:11,030 Speaker 2: low key about it. 239 00:12:11,450 --> 00:12:16,219 Speaker 1: Talk to the Howard Hughes about him. The reclusive billionaire. 240 00:12:16,420 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: Everyone loves a reclusive billionaire, except journalists, because they get 241 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,020 Speaker 1: frustrated with them because they can't talk to them, you see. 242 00:12:22,340 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: And we do like to talk to them and see 243 00:12:24,020 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: what they're up to. OK, folks. Now, that was a 244 00:12:26,540 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: quick round the houses on some of the more interesting 245 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: share pickers and share selections by the richest people in Australia, 246 00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:41,020 Speaker 1: the tycoons, the members of the rich list. that we 247 00:12:41,070 --> 00:12:43,670 Speaker 1: do every year. And John, of course, is the editor. 248 00:12:43,690 --> 00:12:45,849 Speaker 1: That's why he's across this. We'll take a short break 249 00:12:46,510 --> 00:12:49,130 Speaker 1: and we'll have a look at who's been losing money 250 00:12:50,050 --> 00:12:53,829 Speaker 1: and on what in Among the Tycoons back in a moment. 251 00:12:57,090 --> 00:13:00,170 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to the Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. 252 00:13:00,230 --> 00:13:04,750 Speaker 1: I'm James Kirby and I'm talking to John Stensholt of 253 00:13:04,820 --> 00:13:09,220 Speaker 1: The Australian. Now, John, I did enjoy the piece that 254 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: you did last weekend. I'll just tell people if they 255 00:13:12,340 --> 00:13:14,420 Speaker 1: want to have a look. It's called, to be precise, 256 00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: The Best and Worst Performing Stocks of Australia's Billionaires. Now, 257 00:13:18,660 --> 00:13:26,180 Speaker 1: the losers. We started talking, actually, about Anthony Pratt and 258 00:13:26,590 --> 00:13:31,450 Speaker 1: how he had a win with this notoriously volatile biotech 259 00:13:31,490 --> 00:13:35,829 Speaker 1: company called Mesoblast. And we mentioned that his ex-brother-in-law, Alex 260 00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: was also there in the winners with Arity Pharmaceuticals. Now, 261 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,380 Speaker 1: believe it or not, folks, another brother-in-law of Anthony Pratt, 262 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,430 Speaker 1: being Ruffy Jeminder, who is better known for his big 263 00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:51,930 Speaker 1: Pat group, which is basically in that packaging area as well, 264 00:13:51,950 --> 00:13:55,730 Speaker 1: which was originally the Pratt Empire. He went big time 265 00:13:55,790 --> 00:13:59,230 Speaker 1: into the Reject Shop. And we all know the Reject Shop. 266 00:13:59,330 --> 00:14:02,470 Speaker 1: It's a highly visible brand, just like Guzmán y Gómez. 267 00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:06,030 Speaker 1: And one time was a very hot stock, just like 268 00:14:06,130 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: Guzmany Gomez is today. But tell us what happened to 269 00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:11,980 Speaker 1: Ruffy's adventures in the reject shop. 270 00:14:12,780 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 2: Well, this year it's down about 42% so far that 271 00:14:16,020 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: I had on my numbers, James. So yeah, it's almost 272 00:14:19,540 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: half his valuation. Now, Ruffy over time with the reject shop, 273 00:14:24,020 --> 00:14:27,180 Speaker 2: his private business, King Group, which has got various subsidiaries, 274 00:14:27,570 --> 00:14:30,710 Speaker 2: had aspirations to actually take over the reject shop or 275 00:14:30,850 --> 00:14:33,780 Speaker 2: privatize it. Hasn't quite happened yet. Sort of abandoned that 276 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,340 Speaker 2: for now, which leads me to Ruffy's other stroke of 277 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,500 Speaker 2: ill fortune so far this year, which is actually Pactfrip itself. P-A-C-T, yeah. 278 00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:45,660 Speaker 2: So it's a bit similar. He has tried to privatize 279 00:14:45,710 --> 00:14:49,030 Speaker 2: that as well this year and has got up to 280 00:14:49,050 --> 00:14:52,290 Speaker 2: about 87 odd percent. But there's a couple of people 281 00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:54,290 Speaker 2: that have held out on him. Couldn't get to the 282 00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:56,330 Speaker 2: 90 percent threshold. This has unfolded in the last couple 283 00:14:56,350 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: of weeks. A couple of people that he bought their 284 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: company a few years ago in a shares and cash situation. 285 00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:07,460 Speaker 2: They took that. There was an earn-out provision. Ruffy actually 286 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,260 Speaker 2: sued these guys to stop the earn-out provision over money 287 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,990 Speaker 2: that their business, a coat hanger business, was meant to 288 00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:16,850 Speaker 2: make in the, I think it was, 21 and 22 289 00:15:16,850 --> 00:15:19,890 Speaker 2: financial years. These guys had shares in PACT as well. 290 00:15:19,970 --> 00:15:22,310 Speaker 2: So there's a court case going on with his shareholders 291 00:15:22,350 --> 00:15:24,550 Speaker 2: at the moment. And they're also refusing to sell their 292 00:15:24,570 --> 00:15:28,820 Speaker 2: shares into his privatization bid for PACT. So it's all stopped. 293 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: The takeover offer actually expired a week or so ago. 294 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: And so PACT is in a bit of limbo at 295 00:15:35,060 --> 00:15:36,580 Speaker 2: the moment too. So yeah, Rothy's having a bit of 296 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,100 Speaker 2: a hard time of it on the ASX. 297 00:15:38,380 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: Bit of a tough year. So he's trying to take 298 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: it off the market, the bigger operation, PACT. Right, okay. 299 00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: And I will say, in the interest of full disclosure, folks, 300 00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:49,820 Speaker 1: two of the losers on John's list were in media. 301 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:57,180 Speaker 1: Kerry Stokes in Seven West and Bruce Gordon in Nine Entertainment. However, 302 00:15:57,610 --> 00:16:00,110 Speaker 1: what I find really interesting, John, because a lot of 303 00:16:00,210 --> 00:16:06,490 Speaker 1: our listeners... would be in ETFs and probably wouldn't remember 304 00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:11,460 Speaker 1: the golden age of managed funds, the days of very simple, 305 00:16:11,770 --> 00:16:14,300 Speaker 1: looking back on it, relatively simple, where basically a bunch 306 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,220 Speaker 1: of people were in a room and they picked stocks 307 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:19,260 Speaker 1: and they put a basket of those out and that 308 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,060 Speaker 1: was a managed fund and off they went. And many 309 00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: people made enormous amounts of money out of that. One 310 00:16:24,380 --> 00:16:26,740 Speaker 1: of those people was Karen Eilson, who became a billionaire 311 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: with timing in the sale of his platinum asset manager, 312 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: which if I recall correctly, was just before the GFC. 313 00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:37,620 Speaker 1: And his wife too, Judith Nielsen, ex-wife, who is a 314 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,900 Speaker 1: big patron of the arts and people would know all 315 00:16:39,940 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: about her and her gallery of Chinese art in Sydney. 316 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,250 Speaker 1: But this year, Kerr Nielsen is down 22% on his investments. 317 00:16:49,750 --> 00:16:51,930 Speaker 1: And tell us about that, John, and what it tells 318 00:16:52,010 --> 00:16:54,650 Speaker 1: us about the way that whole world of managed funds 319 00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:55,090 Speaker 1: is going. 320 00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:58,150 Speaker 2: You remember they were very hot stocks there for a while. So, 321 00:16:58,210 --> 00:17:01,690 Speaker 2: I mean, you're right, Kerr floated platinum on the ASX. 322 00:17:02,450 --> 00:17:04,790 Speaker 2: Glory days, it rose and rose and rose. It was 323 00:17:04,910 --> 00:17:07,430 Speaker 2: a global equities play, right? So that was their. 324 00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:10,950 Speaker 1: That was their specialization. They did bring Australians to the world. 325 00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:13,970 Speaker 2: Exactly right. So it was very, very hot stock, you know, 326 00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:16,950 Speaker 2: picking stocks, you know, on behalf of their shareholders and 327 00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:20,420 Speaker 2: so on. Good similar story with, say, Hamish Douglas, for example, 328 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: at Magellan. That was one that, you know, he was 329 00:17:22,859 --> 00:17:25,830 Speaker 2: a billionaire for a while there. And these days, they're 330 00:17:25,869 --> 00:17:31,100 Speaker 2: very much, yeah, not in fashion, I suppose. So Perpetual 331 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 2: was another one, yeah. I mean, the one that probably 332 00:17:33,460 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: still keeps going, you know, which is kind of like this, 333 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: is Washington, you know, Sol Patterson's, right? Yeah, Washington-based Sol Patterson. Yeah, 334 00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:44,500 Speaker 2: the Milner family. So that's still going pretty well. I mean, 335 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 2: there's an element of private equity in what they do too. 336 00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:50,770 Speaker 2: But yeah, Platinum's down 22% of this year. It's been 337 00:17:50,790 --> 00:17:53,290 Speaker 2: down for a few years now. The curve's still got... 338 00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:56,190 Speaker 2: stock in there now he's not day-to-day management these days 339 00:17:56,210 --> 00:17:59,010 Speaker 2: in fact he's he's been very critical of who's in 340 00:17:59,050 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 2: there managing the company these days he's still got shares 341 00:18:02,180 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 2: in it so he's not necessarily happy with what's going 342 00:18:04,340 --> 00:18:05,180 Speaker 2: on he's. 343 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: Like alex ferguson sitting up in the stands at manchester 344 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,820 Speaker 1: united isn't he blasting uh whoever's managing the team these 345 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,820 Speaker 1: days he's nothing to lose has he well he has 346 00:18:14,859 --> 00:18:16,100 Speaker 1: something to lose actually but. 347 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,739 Speaker 2: Yes well i'm yeah judith also had shares in uh 348 00:18:19,780 --> 00:18:23,970 Speaker 2: platinum But she sold out. But as you say, she 349 00:18:24,010 --> 00:18:27,970 Speaker 2: has a significant amount. They both do, actually. They both 350 00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:30,649 Speaker 2: talk about wealthy people and what they should do with 351 00:18:30,690 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 2: their money. They both have separate, very large charitable foundations. 352 00:18:35,890 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 2: There's hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in each. 353 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: She's big into art and, fair enough, funding independent media, 354 00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: which is great to see. What's his thing? 355 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 2: He is as well. He backs dozens and dozens of small, medium, 356 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: and larger foundations. particularly in Sydney, arts organizations. 357 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:58,619 Speaker 1: Right, I see. Okay, interesting. And so that's interesting in 358 00:18:58,660 --> 00:19:03,830 Speaker 1: that the fund management tycoons, well, it would seem like 359 00:19:03,869 --> 00:19:07,450 Speaker 1: their golden era is over and, of course, greatly challenged folks, 360 00:19:07,530 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: as you would know, by the ETF houses, exchange-traded funds. 361 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: And hey, John, talking about ETFs, Alex Vientcourt of Basishares, 362 00:19:17,380 --> 00:19:21,810 Speaker 1: they just did a $ 300 million deal where a stake 363 00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:24,830 Speaker 1: was taken in them a few days ago. Is he 364 00:19:24,910 --> 00:19:27,130 Speaker 1: on your list? Is he going to pole vault onto 365 00:19:27,150 --> 00:19:27,530 Speaker 1: your list? 366 00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:28,890 Speaker 2: He's certainly on the radar. 367 00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:31,330 Speaker 1: He's on the radar. Very diplomatic answer. 368 00:19:31,810 --> 00:19:34,689 Speaker 2: Yes, he's been one on the radar. That's grown extremely 369 00:19:34,750 --> 00:19:37,310 Speaker 2: rapidly in the last few years, hasn't it, that business? Yes. 370 00:19:37,820 --> 00:19:39,379 Speaker 2: It's definitely my right. I'm not sure whether Alex would 371 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 2: be terribly thrilled to know that he might be looked 372 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:42,980 Speaker 2: at for something like this, but I mean, you've got 373 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:43,820 Speaker 2: to do it, right? Okay. 374 00:19:44,020 --> 00:19:45,830 Speaker 1: So I would take one last one in terms of 375 00:19:45,869 --> 00:19:49,090 Speaker 1: people who have not done very well this year. We're 376 00:19:49,130 --> 00:19:54,190 Speaker 1: talking about stocks. It's interesting. Highly visible stocks that have 377 00:19:54,310 --> 00:20:00,210 Speaker 1: a wonderful time and then go off the boil badly. Again, 378 00:20:00,230 --> 00:20:03,300 Speaker 1: in the context of Guzman Igumez listing today and looking 379 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,740 Speaker 1: so good just on this day, mark the day, folks. 380 00:20:08,450 --> 00:20:14,810 Speaker 1: 20th of June, 2024. Domino's Pizza was a license to 381 00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:17,490 Speaker 1: make money at one stage. It was a fantastic stock 382 00:20:17,910 --> 00:20:21,649 Speaker 1: and largely related to a brilliant operator called Don Mage, 383 00:20:22,109 --> 00:20:25,030 Speaker 1: who's still there. Now, what's really interesting is Jack Cowan, 384 00:20:25,230 --> 00:20:28,210 Speaker 1: another sort of larger than life figure in Australian business, 385 00:20:28,890 --> 00:20:32,350 Speaker 1: he had made his money out of Hungry Jack's, right? 386 00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: And he went in there seems to get on, obviously, 387 00:20:36,820 --> 00:20:39,750 Speaker 1: with Don Mage. He's the chair, is he? And Cowan 388 00:20:39,790 --> 00:20:44,330 Speaker 1: has a big, big shareholding in Domino's Pizza. And your 389 00:20:44,369 --> 00:20:48,070 Speaker 1: figures show that he lost a third of his money 390 00:20:48,410 --> 00:20:52,410 Speaker 1: that he had in Domino's this year. What happened there, 391 00:20:52,430 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: do you think? 392 00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the glory days are a little bit 393 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 2: over for that pizza game. You might remember only a 394 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,310 Speaker 2: few years ago that Mage was promoting it as you know, 395 00:21:01,330 --> 00:21:03,850 Speaker 2: it's not just a food company, it's a tech company 396 00:21:03,890 --> 00:21:06,470 Speaker 2: as well, right? And this sort of makes me think 397 00:21:06,510 --> 00:21:09,850 Speaker 2: about what might happen with Guzman as well, right, as 398 00:21:10,210 --> 00:21:13,410 Speaker 2: the founders and the shareholders wear their, you know, tech-looking 399 00:21:13,450 --> 00:21:16,310 Speaker 2: hoodies ringing the bell today on the ASX. So, look, 400 00:21:16,369 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: watch this space in that regard. So, yeah, look, don't 401 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 2: get me wrong, Jack's still well ahead of his initial investment. 402 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,300 Speaker 2: He put in about $ 400, 000 in a little pizza chain 403 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,699 Speaker 2: called Silvio's back in the 80s. And that's sort of, 404 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: you know, There was acquisitions along the way. It went 405 00:21:31,820 --> 00:21:34,179 Speaker 2: into what's become Domino's today, and he's still got, I 406 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: think it's roughly a 20%, 25% stake in their business. Yeah, 407 00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:42,020 Speaker 2: and you've got to remember with Jack, his primary wealth 408 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,550 Speaker 2: is based on Hungry Jack's, which he owns privately, right, 409 00:21:45,650 --> 00:21:48,810 Speaker 2: and his competitive food's private business, and that's been going 410 00:21:48,910 --> 00:21:52,650 Speaker 2: extremely well. You know, if you think about economic downturn 411 00:21:52,690 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 2: or cost of living issues, you know, a firm like 412 00:21:55,820 --> 00:21:59,180 Speaker 2: Hungry Jack's, you know, pretty... you know, pretty well regarded 413 00:21:59,220 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: in terms of, you know, what it costs to get 414 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,740 Speaker 2: a meal there. It goes very well in times like this. 415 00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:07,350 Speaker 2: So he's got that and he's got his Domino's private investment, 416 00:22:07,369 --> 00:22:08,929 Speaker 2: which has been off a bit lately. 417 00:22:09,570 --> 00:22:12,690 Speaker 1: A defensive investment in context of cost of living. 418 00:22:12,790 --> 00:22:14,250 Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. 419 00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:17,869 Speaker 1: So we were talking, folks, about winners and losers and 420 00:22:17,910 --> 00:22:19,750 Speaker 1: some of these stocks we talk about on the show. 421 00:22:19,810 --> 00:22:22,010 Speaker 1: I know a lot of you are very interested. We 422 00:22:22,030 --> 00:22:27,060 Speaker 1: mentioned media. We mentioned the reject shop, which is interesting because, again, 423 00:22:27,740 --> 00:22:31,660 Speaker 1: thing about thematic top-down investing, we just talked about how 424 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: Hungry Jacks should be fine at the moment. But on 425 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,100 Speaker 1: that basis, the Reject Shop should be fine at the 426 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,379 Speaker 1: moment too. And it's not. So it's interesting. There's always 427 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,140 Speaker 1: particulars in stocks. This is, again, difficulty we all have 428 00:22:44,220 --> 00:22:46,660 Speaker 1: as investors. When you select stocks, you have to take 429 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: more risk. And if you buy a basket of stock 430 00:22:49,460 --> 00:22:51,940 Speaker 1: in the way of a managed fund or an exchange-traded fund, 431 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: you minimize your risk because you're buying that basket of stocks. Now, also, 432 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,609 Speaker 1: we talked about Jack Cowan and his Domino's pizzas group, 433 00:23:00,810 --> 00:23:04,610 Speaker 1: which he's the chair and a key shareholder down 35%. 434 00:23:04,609 --> 00:23:08,070 Speaker 1: Some media people, Bruce Gordon off in trouble on nine. 435 00:23:08,930 --> 00:23:14,030 Speaker 1: And Karen Nielsen, the fund manager extraordinaire and his platinum 436 00:23:14,190 --> 00:23:16,870 Speaker 1: asset management group down. The last one, we'll just take 437 00:23:16,890 --> 00:23:18,770 Speaker 1: a look at John in terms of what went wrong 438 00:23:18,850 --> 00:23:22,460 Speaker 1: as a big time tycoon losing a bag of money 439 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,970 Speaker 1: this year is Nick Politis. ego's automotive now he's basically 440 00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:31,929 Speaker 1: the king of car dealers in australia right could you 441 00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:34,750 Speaker 1: tell the listeners a bit about him and what happened 442 00:23:35,210 --> 00:23:36,530 Speaker 1: to him this year. 443 00:23:36,869 --> 00:23:39,650 Speaker 2: He was the guy behind the city ford business which 444 00:23:39,690 --> 00:23:42,620 Speaker 2: you which was on and still you know has been 445 00:23:42,660 --> 00:23:45,820 Speaker 2: on the front of what's now the sydney roosters nrl 446 00:23:45,859 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 2: jerseys for 40 years now so it's one of the 447 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 2: great uh success stories that was his private business he's 448 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,710 Speaker 2: a big big shareholder in what was AP Eagers was 449 00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:58,889 Speaker 2: now Eagers Automotive, which is the ASX listed, you know, 450 00:23:58,990 --> 00:24:03,350 Speaker 2: big car dealership. That's down 28% this year. Look, Nick's again, 451 00:24:03,369 --> 00:24:07,090 Speaker 2: has got a huge amount of private investments, private, a 452 00:24:07,210 --> 00:24:09,730 Speaker 2: big private car dealership holdings. And some of it's actually 453 00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:12,310 Speaker 2: been sold into Eagers over time, but he's got, yeah, 454 00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:15,910 Speaker 2: a big, bigger shareholder in Eagers as well. Look, I mean, 455 00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:18,780 Speaker 2: the dealerships were going amazingly, you know, a couple of 456 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,980 Speaker 2: years ago. So they've ramped all the way up. They've 457 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,570 Speaker 2: come down and they've come down, In the last year. 458 00:24:23,609 --> 00:24:26,010 Speaker 1: Is it a post-COVID sort of hangover there going on? 459 00:24:26,050 --> 00:24:28,170 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. I mean, look, there's been sort of, 460 00:24:28,270 --> 00:24:30,709 Speaker 2: you know, profit warnings and stuff like that as well 461 00:24:30,820 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: across the sector. Not the only one that's having issues. 462 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 2: I think Nick's still doing very, very well for himself. 463 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,700 Speaker 2: But yeah, so his investment in EG is down about 28% 464 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:41,380 Speaker 2: year to date. 465 00:24:42,180 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: So it's interesting, isn't it? If we draw a line, 466 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,740 Speaker 1: I said at the start of the show that this 467 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,459 Speaker 1: year the Australian stock market is we'll have a total return. 468 00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:54,740 Speaker 1: If we ruled off today, that's price and dividends combined, pre-franking, 469 00:24:55,330 --> 00:24:59,010 Speaker 1: of about 12%. Put in franking is probably 13% or 14%, 470 00:24:59,010 --> 00:25:01,369 Speaker 1: which is very nice, thank you. And most people will 471 00:25:01,390 --> 00:25:03,889 Speaker 1: be very happy with that. But when you look inside 472 00:25:04,210 --> 00:25:07,790 Speaker 1: the market, there's real winners and there's real losers every year. 473 00:25:07,890 --> 00:25:09,929 Speaker 1: And this year is no exception. And I suppose the 474 00:25:09,970 --> 00:25:12,650 Speaker 1: message from this, John, is even the billionaires don't know. 475 00:25:13,070 --> 00:25:15,230 Speaker 1: And even billionaires get it very right and very wrong. 476 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,180 Speaker 2: Yes, they've just got a bit more money to play with, perhaps, James. 477 00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:20,830 Speaker 1: But I'm sure it still hurts, John. All right, we'll 478 00:25:20,850 --> 00:25:22,750 Speaker 1: be back in a moment, and we have some great 479 00:25:22,790 --> 00:25:28,510 Speaker 1: questions coming up. Hello, and welcome back to The Australian's 480 00:25:28,570 --> 00:25:32,650 Speaker 1: Money Puzzle Podcast. I'm James Kirby, Wealth Editor at The Australian, 481 00:25:32,869 --> 00:25:38,130 Speaker 1: talking to John Stensild, Rich 250 Editor at The Australian. 482 00:25:38,619 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: What time of the year does that come out, John? 483 00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:41,379 Speaker 2: Comes out every March, James. 484 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,060 Speaker 1: Every March. 485 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 2: Yep, then I have to have about a two-month holiday 486 00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:46,300 Speaker 2: afterwards to recover. 487 00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:47,300 Speaker 1: Yeah, you do, I know. 488 00:25:47,710 --> 00:25:47,929 Speaker 2: I know. 489 00:25:47,970 --> 00:25:50,390 Speaker 1: And you have a damn good holiday, John. And you're back. 490 00:25:50,730 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 1: And tell me, but you do other spin-offs too, isn't there? 491 00:25:53,820 --> 00:25:55,660 Speaker 1: On that, you might just tell people what other lists 492 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,580 Speaker 1: there are to look out for. 493 00:25:56,940 --> 00:25:58,980 Speaker 2: Oh, I definitely do look at, yeah, we have a 494 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: look at who's the best and worst. We have a 495 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,660 Speaker 2: look at all sorts of stories that sort of come 496 00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:06,030 Speaker 2: from the list as well. But we also do top 497 00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:08,670 Speaker 2: innovators list, which is very, you know, very, very popular. 498 00:26:08,690 --> 00:26:11,270 Speaker 2: And that's more of our technology that does that. That's 499 00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:13,410 Speaker 2: a really, that's probably the next, yeah, the rich list 500 00:26:13,450 --> 00:26:16,630 Speaker 2: is of tomorrow. There's several other ones we do. Yes, yes. 501 00:26:17,030 --> 00:26:20,710 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always interesting. It's always interesting. And I did 502 00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:23,449 Speaker 1: love the cover this year of the Rick List of 503 00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:27,550 Speaker 1: that guy. And one of the pictures, he's on a Lamborghini, 504 00:26:27,710 --> 00:26:31,409 Speaker 1: a yellow Lamborghini, eating a burger with his beard and 505 00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:33,470 Speaker 1: his faded haircut and everything. Who's he again? 506 00:26:33,770 --> 00:26:34,630 Speaker 2: Adrian Portelli. 507 00:26:34,650 --> 00:26:35,390 Speaker 1: What's his business? 508 00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:39,190 Speaker 2: LMCT Plus, which is basically where you sort of, it 509 00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:42,899 Speaker 2: does giveaways for your membership and it gives away boats 510 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,810 Speaker 2: and cars and houses and Big on, you know, those 511 00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:48,410 Speaker 2: sort of TV shows where houses go under auction, which 512 00:26:48,869 --> 00:26:51,690 Speaker 2: for a competitor's television channel it is. 513 00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:54,850 Speaker 1: It's like an updated version of coupons. Is that all? 514 00:26:55,310 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 2: Exactly right. The digital version of it. And he's making 515 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,060 Speaker 2: a lot of money out of it. Hence all those Lamborghinis. 516 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: The digital version. Yeah. Gosh. That's why he was happy 517 00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:07,860 Speaker 1: to pose with a burger on a Lamborghini. Because it's 518 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:08,780 Speaker 1: all in his interest. 519 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:09,660 Speaker 2: Yeah, very good. 520 00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:17,470 Speaker 1: But it really was... Stunning looking cover. Okay, the questions. Melanie, 521 00:27:18,130 --> 00:27:21,930 Speaker 1: on the stock splits, we've had questions about stock splits 522 00:27:22,550 --> 00:27:25,510 Speaker 1: and how they work. Understandably, off the back of the 523 00:27:25,630 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: Nvidia split, which of course is so popular, and we've 524 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,980 Speaker 1: already mentioned it on the show in the first segment. 525 00:27:31,859 --> 00:27:35,940 Speaker 1: So Melanie says, you mentioned about stock splits and a 526 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,179 Speaker 1: big one recently. Yes, it is Nvidia. With the giant 527 00:27:39,220 --> 00:27:43,390 Speaker 1: share split happening now, it's 10 for 1. So that 528 00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:46,850 Speaker 1: means if you have Nvidia shares, look at you, like 529 00:27:46,890 --> 00:27:49,510 Speaker 1: James Packer and you, the two of you, you both 530 00:27:49,550 --> 00:27:52,450 Speaker 1: have shares. For every one you've got, suddenly you've got 10. 531 00:27:52,450 --> 00:27:54,609 Speaker 1: It makes no difference to the price, right? If the 532 00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:57,730 Speaker 1: price is $ 100, then you still have $ 100 worth of 533 00:27:57,850 --> 00:28:00,350 Speaker 1: Nvidia shares. It's just that you have 10 now and 534 00:28:00,390 --> 00:28:03,350 Speaker 1: you used to have one. That's how it goes. For 535 00:28:03,390 --> 00:28:07,649 Speaker 1: what it's worth, folks, Tesla has done two stock splits 536 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: in recent times. They did a five for one. And 537 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: then more recently, they did a three for one. And 538 00:28:13,340 --> 00:28:17,660 Speaker 1: in our market, the best known is CSL. They did 539 00:28:17,780 --> 00:28:21,220 Speaker 1: one in 1997, and then they did another one. 540 00:28:21,460 --> 00:28:23,419 Speaker 2: In 2007, which was three for one. 541 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,250 Speaker 1: That's a while ago. They haven't done one since. Generally, 542 00:28:26,430 --> 00:28:28,990 Speaker 1: it's an issue for a stock that's just going fantastically, 543 00:28:29,050 --> 00:28:30,050 Speaker 1: isn't it, John, basically? 544 00:28:30,670 --> 00:28:33,429 Speaker 2: Basically, that share price gets up. I mean, sometimes it's 545 00:28:33,450 --> 00:28:35,270 Speaker 2: in the hundreds of dollars, right? It just becomes almost 546 00:28:35,330 --> 00:28:37,869 Speaker 2: unwieldy in a way for it to keep trading in 547 00:28:37,910 --> 00:28:41,070 Speaker 2: that level. They will do a 10 for one, I've seen, 548 00:28:41,170 --> 00:28:43,830 Speaker 2: five for one, three for one. sort of brings it 549 00:28:43,890 --> 00:28:46,370 Speaker 2: back to some sort of more reasonable number, I suppose, 550 00:28:46,410 --> 00:28:51,620 Speaker 2: but doesn't necessarily change, you know, what your percentage holding 551 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 2: and what happens. But I think there's been other companies 552 00:28:55,140 --> 00:28:57,220 Speaker 2: over time too. I remember Network 10, I think, did 553 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:58,900 Speaker 2: something like that at one stage too a few years 554 00:28:58,940 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: ago before it went off the ASX. I remember one, James, 555 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 2: a few years ago now, Quilla Resources, this is a 556 00:29:06,780 --> 00:29:09,810 Speaker 2: little bit different, where they used to issue bonus shares, 557 00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:14,100 Speaker 2: which is a different thing, where every... Every Christmas it 558 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 2: felt like it was literally your Christmases all came at 559 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,300 Speaker 2: once where if you had one Aquila share, you get 560 00:29:18,340 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: a bonus share issued. Their sort of thing was to, well, 561 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,780 Speaker 2: we need to increase liquidity in the stock, so we'll 562 00:29:23,820 --> 00:29:26,380 Speaker 2: issue bonus shares. But then it got taken over and 563 00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:30,690 Speaker 2: its founder, Tony Polley, who already had a very big shareholding, 564 00:29:30,830 --> 00:29:33,990 Speaker 2: his shares hit twice as many shares several times over 565 00:29:34,530 --> 00:29:37,090 Speaker 2: and ended up on the richest 250 where he still 566 00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:39,950 Speaker 2: sits today because of that. So that's a little bit different. 567 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 2: to the stock splits, though, but it's an interesting phenomenon 568 00:29:43,380 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: at times. 569 00:29:44,180 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Generally a sign of good times, all these things, 570 00:29:49,030 --> 00:29:52,750 Speaker 1: and as is probably patently obvious by now, damn good 571 00:29:52,790 --> 00:29:56,630 Speaker 1: times at NVIDIA. And that's why they're doing a stock split. 572 00:29:56,790 --> 00:29:57,290 Speaker 2: It's not. 573 00:29:59,070 --> 00:30:02,790 Speaker 1: Great times for Tesla. They won't be doing a split 574 00:30:02,830 --> 00:30:07,570 Speaker 1: anytime soon because it's dropping fast enough. They don't have 575 00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:10,170 Speaker 1: to worry about it being too big. Now, that doesn't 576 00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:12,110 Speaker 1: mean it's going to last forever, but it's not doing 577 00:30:12,130 --> 00:30:13,630 Speaker 1: so well right now. And I know a lot of 578 00:30:13,690 --> 00:30:17,310 Speaker 1: our listeners have Tesla shares, most commonly held overseas stock 579 00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:20,850 Speaker 1: in Australia. Certainly until very recently. I think that could 580 00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:24,260 Speaker 1: change to Nvidia real soon. Okay, our final question, because 581 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,010 Speaker 1: we're running out of time, is from Josh. Do you 582 00:30:28,150 --> 00:30:35,390 Speaker 1: think the government guarantee of 250,000 per person, per bank, 583 00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:39,540 Speaker 1: will increase? And when was the last increase to the cap? 584 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,620 Speaker 2: It's such a good question, Josh. 585 00:30:42,620 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: I'm talking... I may be open to correction, but I 586 00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: don't think so. This was introduced in the depths of 587 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: the financial crisis in 2008, when all the world was 588 00:30:55,420 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: doing this, started, if you don't mind, by the Irish government, 589 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,060 Speaker 1: who came out with great confidence and said they would 590 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,980 Speaker 1: guarantee all the Irish currency, which wasn't that hard to 591 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,420 Speaker 1: do since, in fact, it was the European Central Bank 592 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: behind it all. And then they were followed by many countries, 593 00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:15,610 Speaker 1: including Australia, where there never had been an explicit guarantee 594 00:31:16,050 --> 00:31:21,410 Speaker 1: on your money. Introduced at the time, And it remains, 595 00:31:21,630 --> 00:31:24,090 Speaker 1: it's not indexed as far as I know, so it's 596 00:31:24,130 --> 00:31:27,310 Speaker 1: never been changed. And there's a lot of games being 597 00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:31,570 Speaker 1: played around indexing, as you would all know, because inflation 598 00:31:31,650 --> 00:31:33,820 Speaker 1: is quite strong at the moment. And if you don't 599 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,260 Speaker 1: index something, the government basically gets more money. It's played 600 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: this week in the New South Wales state budget, where 601 00:31:39,340 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: they're not going to index the land tax threshold. It's 602 00:31:42,420 --> 00:31:44,860 Speaker 1: being played by the federal government in the superannuation 3 603 00:31:44,860 --> 00:31:49,660 Speaker 1: million tax, where they're not indexing that threshold. But that's it. 604 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,460 Speaker 1: That's a debate for another day. John Stencil, busy man, 605 00:31:54,500 --> 00:31:56,459 Speaker 1: we will let you off. Thank you very much for 606 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: being on the show. It's great to have you. 607 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,940 Speaker 2: Always good. Pleasure as always, James. 608 00:32:00,460 --> 00:32:03,810 Speaker 1: Thanks, John. And thanks, everybody. Keep the questions rolling. I 609 00:32:03,870 --> 00:32:07,330 Speaker 1: have had, it's funny, they come in waves. I've had 610 00:32:07,450 --> 00:32:10,229 Speaker 1: lots of questions, but I have the capacity for lots more. 611 00:32:10,330 --> 00:32:16,170 Speaker 1: So keep them rolling, please. themoneypuzzleattheaustralian.com.au Talk to you soon. 612 00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:20,110 Speaker 2: Thank you.