1 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 2 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: James Kirby, the Wealth editor at the Australian. Welcome aboard everybody. 3 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: I imagine, like me, like everyone, you've been watching the 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: share market coming right just in time really the last 5 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: month or two for the financial year, and we're looking 6 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: at double digit returns. We're looking at a total returns 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: for the Australian market if we rule off today will 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: come in easy at about eleven or twelve percent, be 9 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: pre franky, and there's a few days to go, and 10 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: if anything, it might be better than that. Even ten 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: days ago it was a few percent higher. It moves around, 12 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: so I think people are getting interested. I've certainly detected 13 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: any can see in the trading volumes and the reports 14 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: from the various operators about what's been traded in the 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: volume's being traded and the action, and the fact that 16 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: we had no IPOs, we had no share market floats 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: for so long, and today we've got a big, fat, 18 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: juicy IPO which we're going to talk about that goes 19 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: many gold made float. But what I really wanted to 20 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: talk about was my colleague John Stenciled, friend of the 21 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: show No, he edits the rich two hundred and he's 22 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: across what all these tycoons do. This is a very 23 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: interesting research a few days ago where he looked at 24 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: how the very rich, the billionaires have been doing on 25 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: the share market with their own share portfolios, what they've 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: got right, what they've got wrong, some really interesting ones 27 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: about what they got wrong, and some really interesting ones 28 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: about who got it right. So we're going to have 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: a chat with him today and have a look at 30 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: what we might find out. How are you, John, I'm 31 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: very well, James. Great to have you one. Why don't 32 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: we go straight into the news of the day, because 33 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: we're so news edgy here on the money puzzle that 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: we've timed it to coincide with the float of goes 35 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: Many Gomez, which, in the unlikely event people don't know 36 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: what it is, is a fast food chain which is 37 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: in just about every suburb in Australia. It has that 38 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 1: unusual attribute that it's got a very high customer visibility, 39 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: very well known brand, and this often really helps floats 40 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: and it's really helped goes Many Gomez today. Tell us 41 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: what happened and tell us which tycoon has done well 42 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: here with James. 43 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: Yes, if you're reading the financial presses in the last 44 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: couple of weeks, you would have sent a huge amount 45 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: of promotion. I think it feels like with the Gozman stock. 46 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: So we finally got round to it flooding on the 47 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: IIx today been Thursday, twenty two dollars was the issue 48 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: process has gone up to thirty dollars in that time. 49 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: I'm not sure what the analogy is with a big 50 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: burrito for that Giants, but it's going very well. 51 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: It's a stag burrito, John. People probably forget what a 52 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: stag is because there's been so many bomb floats on 53 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 1: the air, so they have been aching for a good 54 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: float for so long a year and a half roughly, 55 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: if you igno us some sort of absolutely time may 56 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: mining exploration stocks and that sort of thing a really 57 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: decent big one. So a stag folk, for those who 58 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: don't remember, is when you buy into a float and 59 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: it goes really well straight away. So look by the way, 60 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's not exactly knocking it out of the park. 61 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: It hasn't doubled or anything, but it's been a damn 62 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: convincing first day for this stock. And there was a 63 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: sense that it was highly priced, and they widened the 64 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: IPO and took on more shares. That's often a sign 65 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: of confidence, but sometimes at backfires, and it didn't backfires. 66 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: So Goozwni Gomez a new arrival on the AX. Welcome 67 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: arrival because the stock market has been shrinking in numerical terms. 68 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: Who's in there, John among the billionaires. 69 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: Well, it's important to know that wasn't necessarily a ratile 70 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: sort of element of these chimes. It was more the 71 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: existing investors of private equity and other investors that have 72 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: put in as it's raised funds as a private business 73 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: until we've got to this stage. One of them was 74 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: paid to Cooper from Cooper Investors to Melbourne stock picker 75 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: of some note, and he's on our riches too, fifty. 76 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: But these days it manages sort of twelve thirty and 77 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: forty nine billion dollars and so a lot of stocks. 78 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: It actually has a founder's funding there as well, where 79 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: it invests in companies that have got significant holdings by 80 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: their founders. 81 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: So the people with skin in the game that they 82 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: could have been called the skin of the game fund. 83 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right, that's right. So yes, invest like a 84 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: founder does, so to speak. So look, I'm not sure 85 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: whether this one with agusment goes actually into that fund, 86 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: but Cooper Investors does have a stake in it. So 87 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 2: they are one of the ones that have done very 88 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 2: well out of what's happened today so far, at least 89 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 2: on paper. 90 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So he's a guy who's been getting it 91 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: right you in your exercise when you did this research 92 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: study on how the richest in the country referring on 93 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: the stock market, who has either been very successful or 94 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: very lucky in the stocks they picked. 95 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: Well, if you're talking about on good ledger side, I 96 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 2: suppose have done very well and to bonds. Remember I've 97 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: only done it since the start of the year, so 98 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: it's a very interesting exercise as to what's happened since 99 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 2: January one. Now, some of these people have been in 100 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: at for quite some time, and I think a really 101 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: good ample that's actually Meso Blast, which you know for 102 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: some of the business that's gone up and down, a 103 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 2: better roller coaster rise. 104 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: The sea saw of Australian stocks. Yeah, okay, so it's 105 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: going up these days, right, it's. 106 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 2: Still out there's promoting its wes say they've got some 107 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 2: good positive news out of the FDA. I think it 108 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: is over the us of the regulatory authorities. So it's 109 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: looking good again at the moment. It turns out that 110 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: actually Anthony Pratt, who's the cardboard box manufacturing mac date, 111 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: has got a small shareholding in a little bit of 112 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: a family shareholder there because his brother in law Alex 113 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: waislets us in there as well, a big backer of 114 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 2: Meso Blast founder and boss Silvioteskis, So they have officers 115 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: on the same floor. They go way way back to 116 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: when they were I think doctors back in New York 117 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 2: in the eighties. So I think somewhere along the way 118 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: Anthony's been convinced to put in Now. I'm not sure 119 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: whether he's I think he's probably still gowned his initial 120 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: investment from seven, eight years ago whatever. But yeah, it's 121 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 2: up about two hundred and fifty percent since January one, 122 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,239 Speaker 2: so there's a real bit of good news for Messo 123 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 2: Blasts shareholders of late Ah. 124 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: Yes, his two hundred suppoorcent this year so far, which 125 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: sounds fabulous except to say, folks, take a look at 126 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: the history of this company. I think in a way, 127 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: Meso glast is one of those stocks telling me if 128 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: you disagree with. I think it's a trader's stock, and 129 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: that it stuck where people ride it up and down, 130 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: and it's become almost like a byword for a speculative 131 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,119 Speaker 1: Dare I say fun stock on the local market. I see. Also, 132 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: then you mentioned Alex Wyslitz, who is of course the 133 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: brother in law or was the brother in law of 134 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: Anthony Pratt to be precise, and he was in there, 135 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: and he's also when a Clarity Pharmaceuticals, that's up one 136 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty percent. Gina Reinhart, Now that's Vulcan Energy Resources. 137 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: There's a good one of seventy two percent, as if 138 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: she wasn't doing well enough already on other fronts. But 139 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: what's that one? Tell us a little bit about Vulcan 140 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: and why that's been such a strong stock. 141 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jane has a number of lithium pliers in the 142 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 2: last of the year, so Lintown Resources. There's been others 143 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: along the way as well. So her Handcock Prospecting has 144 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 2: actually got something like between one to one point five 145 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: billion dollars worth on its balance sheet of equities mining equities, 146 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: so she has become a significant investor in her own 147 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: right as well. As the actual minds that it owns 148 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: the huge mining assets that it actually has in its 149 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: own right. She become a mining investor too, so very 150 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 2: interesting sticks to what they believe in. I mean, there's 151 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: a cup funnily enough, she's actually got a pharmaceutical kind 152 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: of stuff, very small holding, but otherwise it's all mining. 153 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: It's all lithium or rare earth plays. So she's clearly 154 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: is a believer in those sectors of the mining market. 155 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: Investing in what you know. But I suppose what's interesting 156 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: is it's an iron or tycoon quite consciously moving into 157 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: future metals, particularly lithium. One of the stocks she's in 158 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: what can obviously for she's med seventy two percent since January. 159 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: Anything else that comes to. 160 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: Mind, Yeah, she's in Linetown Resources too. She made a 161 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: big play to sort of block there. There was a merger, 162 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,679 Speaker 2: sorry takeover bid last year. In fact, to god, who's 163 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: the big shareholder in Lonetown's on the other side of 164 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: the ledge in this look at how people on the 165 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,559 Speaker 2: list are going. So yeah, she's an example of ones 166 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: that do stick to what they know mostly. But I 167 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: think there's some really interesting examples of billionaires that we're 168 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: in one sector, but now there's buying into sectors that 169 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: are completely new, and I wanted to bring up James 170 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: Packer in that regard. James, So now we have got 171 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: on our Riches to fifty list. We've got twenty eight 172 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: people on that list that have made money from technology 173 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 2: stocks or technology businesses, right startups, or theah Lassians of 174 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 2: the world and so on. And now you need to 175 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: add James Packer to that list. He could be the 176 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 2: twenty ninth technology based almost billionaire. Now I'll tell you why, 177 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: because he is an investor in the Video. So he 178 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 2: brought into the Video in the last quarter of last year. 179 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: Towards the end of twenty twenty three, he sold out 180 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: of Crown. What was he going to do with his money? 181 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: He's investing in a string of US stocks and we've 182 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: written about a little bit over the last few months 183 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: to quint our margin call section what he's up to. Now. 184 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: He's been in Meta. He's actually in Paramount for a 185 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 2: little while, which was ironic given that he for a 186 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 2: while there he was big backer of Channel ten and 187 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 2: Video has become a big player of his It's nine 188 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: hundred million dollars worth of shares that he has. 189 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: Now James Packer almost has a billion in video which 190 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: is on its way rapidly to becoming the biggest start ever. 191 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: Just got to pass out, is it? There's just two 192 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: to pass out, Apple and Microsoft. Interesting. That is a 193 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: really interesting story. Okay, so these are the winners, folks, 194 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 1: we're going to have. We're going to have some shaden 195 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: freud with the losers in a moment. But one more 196 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: winner I want to draw attention to because I know 197 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: that listeners will know Jens then no gener I have 198 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: they might know David Chew David Chill t E or 199 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: H was one of the rick players in the Telco 200 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: scene here. Fascinating story TPG. The institutional investors absolutely adored him. 201 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 1: Whatever he did. He got out of TPG eventually and 202 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: famously shy. They had an awful job even getting him 203 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: on investor's cause, as I recalled, and we only had 204 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: one picture of him for a long time, John getting 205 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: into a car. So we still have just the one. 206 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 2: Picture of him getting into a car. Yeah. Well, famously 207 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 2: I think he actually backed over the photographer of that case, 208 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 2: would you believe one day outside his house? So no, 209 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 2: he did when TPG was merging with Vodaphone a few 210 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 2: years ago. He actually I had to go to the 211 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: Federal Court. I appeared in front of the court, but 212 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: as part of that sort of carrect moral that you 213 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: go through on a big merger like that. So photos 214 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 2: are actually taking have been going into court. So they've 215 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: got photos have been going into court. Yeah, well dressed, 216 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: he's got his shirt and tie on and so on. 217 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: It's not exactly a stage photo, but it's better than 218 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: probably running over photography of the process. So yes, TPG 219 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 2: was his big payday, so his wife Vicki, they founded 220 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 2: it when they moved to Australia from Malaysia a ninet 221 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: eighty six, built it up from you I remember, it 222 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: was an internet services provider in those early days with 223 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: the Internet, and built it up into a telco. And 224 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: he's still a big shareholder on TPG. But yeah, the 225 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 2: stock that I'm really interested in what he's into these 226 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 2: days is his most recent play, which is called Tourists 227 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 2: or t uas it's actually owns the sort of emerging 228 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: telco business over in Singapore and it's a low cost brand, right, 229 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 2: so it's Simba Telecom. It's actually up about thirty five 230 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: percent this year on the AX and it's been a 231 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: really really good stock Australian. 232 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: Listed, Australian listed Singapore, sort of active tell call startup. 233 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: Is that a fair description? 234 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, and look low cost sort of disrupted 235 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 2: to the established players over that way, and he knows 236 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 2: some of the institutions that were the acting and previously 237 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 2: have sort of back to him in this as well. 238 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 2: It's become a pretty big company. That's aren't right, It's 239 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 2: doing quite well. And again David and his family are 240 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 2: free like about it. 241 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: Touch of the Howard hughes about him. The reclusive billionaire. 242 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 1: Everyone loves a reclusive billionaire, except journalists because they get 243 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: frustrated with them because they can't talk to them, you see, 244 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: and we do like to talk to them and see 245 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: what they're up to. Okay, folks, Now, that was a 246 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: quick around the houses on some of the more interesting 247 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: share pickers and share selections by the richest people in Australia, 248 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: the tycoons, the members of the Rich List that we 249 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: do every year. And John of course is the editor. 250 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: That's why he's across this. We'll take short break and 251 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: we'll have a look at who's been losing money and 252 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: on what in among the tycoons back in the moment. 253 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. 254 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: I'm James Kirby and I'm talking to John stensled And 255 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: of The Australian. Now, John, I did enjoy the piece 256 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: that you did last weekend. I'll just tell people if 257 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: they want to have a look at cold to be precise, 258 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: the best and worst performance docks of Australia's billionaires, now 259 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: the losers. We started talking actively about Anthony Pratt and 260 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: how he had a win with this notoriously volatile biotech 261 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: company called Mesoblast, and we mentioned that he ex brother 262 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: in Alex was also there in the winners with Arty 263 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: per Pharmacist. Now, believe it or not, folks, another brother 264 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: in law of Anthony Pratt being Roffy Jeminder, who is 265 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: better known for his Big Pact group which is which 266 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: is basically in that packaging area as well, which is 267 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: originally the Pratt Empire, and he went big time into 268 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: the reject Shop. And we all know the reject Shop. 269 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: It's a highly visy brand, just like Guzmandy Gorme and 270 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: one time was a very hot stock, just like Guzmany 271 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: Gormez is today. But tell us what happened to Ruffi's 272 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: adventures in the reject Shop. 273 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: Well, this year it's down about forty two percent so 274 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: far that I had on my numbers, James, So yeah, 275 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 2: he's almost half his valuees now. Ruffia over time with 276 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: the Reject Shop is private business King Group, which has 277 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: got various subsidiaries, had aspirations to actually take over the 278 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: Reject Shop or you know, privatize it hasn't quite happened yet, 279 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: sort of abandoned that from now, which leads me to 280 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 2: Ruffy's other stroke of ill fortune so far this year, 281 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: which is actually packed through itself pact. Yeah, so it's 282 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: a bit similar Friederick Shop. He has tried to privatize 283 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 2: that as well this year and has got up to 284 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: about eighty seven percent, but there's a couple of people 285 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: that have held out on him, couldn't get to the 286 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: ninety percent threshold. This is unfold in the last couple 287 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 2: of weeks a couple of people that he he bought 288 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: their company a few years ago in a shares and 289 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: cash offer. They took that there was an earn out 290 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: provision Ruffy actually sued these guys to stop the earnout 291 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: provision over money that their business, a co hanger business, 292 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 2: was meant to make in the I think it was 293 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: twenty one and twenty two financial years. These guys had 294 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: shares impact as well. So there's a court case going 295 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: on with his shareholders at the moment, and they're also 296 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: refusing to sell their shares into his privatization Bidfoo pack. 297 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 2: So it's all stopped. It's actually the takeover offer actually 298 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 2: expired a week or so ago, and so pactors are 299 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: a little bit of limbo at the moment too. So yeah, 300 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 2: Ruffy's having a bit of a hard time of it 301 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 2: on the ASEX, a bit. 302 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: Of a tough year, so he's trying to take it 303 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: off the market the bigger operation PCT right, okay, and 304 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: I will say the interest of full disclosure, folks. Two 305 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: of the losers on John's lists were in media, Kerry 306 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: Stokes in seven West and Bruce Gordon in nine Entertainment. However, 307 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: what I find really interesting John, because a lot of 308 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: our listeners will be in ETFs and probably wouldn't remember 309 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: the golden age of managed funds, the days of very 310 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: simple looking back on its relatively simple where basically a 311 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: bunch of people who were in a room and they 312 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: picked stocks and they put a basket of those out 313 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: and that was a managed fund. Enough they went and 314 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: many people made enormous amounts of money out of that. 315 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: One of those people was Karen Neilsen who became a 316 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: billionaire with Quizit timing in the sale of his Platinum 317 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: Massive Manager, which if I recall correctly, was just before 318 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: the GFC. And his wife too, Judith Neilsen ex wife 319 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: who is a big patron of the arts and people 320 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: would know all about her and her gallery of Chinese 321 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: art in Sydney. But this year Karen Nielssen is down 322 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: twenty two percent on his investments. And tell us about that, John, 323 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: and what it tells us about the way that whole 324 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: world of managed funds is going. 325 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: You remember, there were very hot stocks there for a while, 326 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 2: so I mean your right care was how did Platinum 327 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 2: on the AX Glory days rose and rose and rose. 328 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: It was a global equities play, right, so that was there. 329 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: That was our specialization. Did bring Australians to. 330 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 2: The world exactly right, So it was very very hot stock, 331 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: you know, picking stocks you on behalf of their shareholders 332 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: and so on. Good similar story with say Hamish Douglas, 333 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: for example, at Magellan, that was one that you know, 334 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 2: he was a billionaire for a while there, and in 335 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 2: these days they're very much yeah, not in fashion, I suppose. 336 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 2: So Perpetra was another one. Yeah, I mean the one 337 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 2: that probably still keeps going, you know, which is kind 338 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: of like this. It's is Washington. So Sol Patterson's right, Yeah, 339 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: Washington's Soul Patterson. Yeah. The Milner family, So that's still 340 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 2: going pretty well. I mean there's an element of private 341 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 2: equity in what they do too. But yeah, Platinum's down 342 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 2: twenty two percent of this year. It's been down for 343 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 2: a few years now. The Kurt still got stock in there. Now, 344 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: he's not day to day management these days. In fact, 345 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: he's he's been very critical of who's in there managing 346 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 2: the company these days. He's still got shares in it, 347 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: so he's not necessarily happy with what's going on. 348 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: Is that Alex Ferguson sitting up in the stands at 349 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: Manchester United. Isn't he blasting whoever's managing the team these days? 350 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: Nothing to lose as he well, he has something to 351 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: lose actually, but. 352 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: Yes, well Judith also had shares in Platinum but she 353 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: sold out, so but adverse you say she has a 354 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: significant amount, They both do actually have. They have both 355 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 2: have talk about wealthy people and what they should do 356 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 2: with their money. They both have separate very large charitable foundations, 357 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: like there's hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in each. 358 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: She's begin to art and fair enough funding independent media, 359 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: which is great to see what's his thing? 360 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 2: He is as well? He backs dozens and dozens of small, 361 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 2: medium and larger to Queen Sydney arts organizations. 362 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: Right, I see, Okay? Interesting and so that's interesting in 363 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: that the fund man tycoons, well, it would seem like 364 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 1: they'll go golden areas over and of course greatly challenged 365 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: folks as you would know about the ETF houses Exchange 366 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: traded funds and hey John talking about ETFs ALEX the 367 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: incure of bases shares. They just did a three hundred 368 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: million dollars deal where a steak was taken in them 369 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: a few days ago. Is he on your list? Is 370 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: he going to pull Vault onto your list? Certainly on 371 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: the right ear, it's on the radar very diplomatic answer. 372 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 2: Yes, that he's been one on the right that's grind 373 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: of extremely rapidly in the last few years, isn't it 374 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 2: that business? So it's definitely my right. I'm not sure 375 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: where they're actually terribly thrilled to know that you won't 376 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 2: be looked at for something like this, but you've got 377 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 2: to do it right. Okay. 378 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: So but one last one in terms of people who 379 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: have not done very well this year, we're talking about stocks. 380 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: It's interesting highly visible stocks that have a wonderful time 381 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: and then go off the boil badly in the context 382 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: because many grum is listening today and looking so good. 383 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: Just on this day mark the day, folks, twentieth of 384 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: June to two four. Domino's Pizza was a license to 385 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: make money. At one stage it was a fantastic stock 386 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: and largely related to a brilliant operator called Don Mage, 387 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: who's still there now. What's really interesting is Jack Cowen, 388 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: another sort of larger than live figure in Australian business. 389 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: He had made his money out of Hungry Jack's right, 390 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: and he went in there seems to get on obviously 391 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: with Don Mage. He's a chair is he? And and 392 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: Cowen has a big, big shareholding in Domino's Pizza and 393 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: your biggest show that he lost a third of his 394 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: money that he had in Domino's this year. What happened there? 395 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: Do you think? 396 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the glory dies are a little bit 397 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: over for that. That that pizza guy. You might remember 398 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: only a few years ago that the marriage was promoting it. 399 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: As you know, it's not just a food company, it's 400 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 2: it's a tech company as well, right, and this sort 401 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 2: of makes me think about what might happen with Guzman 402 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 2: as well, right as that the founders and the shareholders 403 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 2: where they're you know, tech looking hoodies are ringing the 404 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: bell today on the ax. So look watch those face 405 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 2: in that regard. So yeah, look they't get me wrong. 406 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: Jack's still well well ahead of his initial investment. He 407 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 2: put in about four hundred thousand dollars in a little 408 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 2: pizza chain called Silvio's back in the eighties, and that's 409 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: it of your There was acquisitions along the way, went 410 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 2: into what's become Dominos today, and he's still got I 411 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: think it's roughly a twenty twenty five percent stake in 412 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: their business. Yeah, you got to remember with Jack, his 413 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: primary wealth is based on Hungry Jacks, which he owns privately, right, 414 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 2: and his competitive Food's private business, and that's been going 415 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 2: extremely well. You know, if you think about economic downturn 416 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: or cost of living issues that you know, a firm 417 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 2: like Hungry Jacks you know pretty you know, pretty well 418 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 2: regarded in terms of what it costs, you know, to 419 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 2: get a meal. There, it goes very well in times 420 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: like this. So he's got that, and he's got his 421 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 2: Domino's private investment, which has been off a bit. 422 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: Lightly, a defensive investment in context of costs of living. Yeah, okay, 423 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: So we were talking folks about winners and losers and 424 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: some of these stocks we talk about on the show, 425 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: and I know a lot of you are very interested. 426 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: We mentioned media, We mentioned the reject Shop, which is 427 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: interesting because again the thing about pematic top down investing. 428 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: We just talked about how Hungry Jacks should be fine 429 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: at the moment, but on that basis, the Reject Shop 430 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: should be a moment too, and it's not. So it's interesting. 431 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: There's always particulars in stocks. This is again difficulty we 432 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: all have as investors. When you select stocks, you have 433 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: to take more risk, and if you buy a basket 434 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: of stock in the way of a managed fund or 435 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: an exchange trade of fund, you minimize your risk because 436 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: you're buying that basket of stocks. 437 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 2: Now. 438 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: Also we talked about Jack Cowen and his Domino's Pets Group, 439 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: which is the chair and a key shareholder down thirty 440 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: five percent, some media people Bruce gordon Off in Trouble 441 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: on nine and Karen Nielsen the fund manager extraordinaire and 442 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: his Platinum Asset Management Group down. The last one, we'll 443 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: just take a look at John Johnson. What went wrong 444 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: as a big time tycoon losing a bag of money 445 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: this year is Nick Palitis Eagles Automotive. Now he's basically 446 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: the king of car dealers in Australia, right, could you 447 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: tell the listeners a bit about him and what happened 448 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: to him this year. 449 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 2: He was the guy behind the City Forward business which 450 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 2: which was on and still you know, has been on 451 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: the front of what's now the Sydney Roosters nral jerseys 452 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 2: for forty years now, so it's one of the great 453 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 2: success stories. So that was his private business. He's a big, 454 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 2: big share holdering. What was your ip eigas was now 455 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 2: Eager's Automotive, which is the ISx listed, you know, big 456 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 2: car dealership, it's down twenty eight percent this year. Nicks 457 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 2: again has got a huge amount of private investments private 458 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 2: a big private car dealership holdings and some of it's 459 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 2: actually been sold into Egles over time. But he's got 460 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: a big, biggest shareholder in in Egles as well. Look, 461 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: I mean the dealerships were going amazingly you know, a 462 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: couple of years ago. So they've ramped all the way up, 463 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 2: they've come down, and they've come down in the last year. 464 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: Is it a post COVID sort of hangover they're going. 465 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 2: On exactly right? I mean, look at there's Ben sort 466 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 2: of you know, profit warnings and stuff like that as 467 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: well across the sector. Not the only one that's having issues. 468 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 2: I think Nick's still doing very very well for himself. 469 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 2: But yeah, so his investment in the EU is down 470 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 2: about twenty eight percent yes date. 471 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: So it's interesting, isn't it that we do all on. 472 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 1: I said at the start of the show that this 473 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: year the Australian stock market will have a total return 474 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: if we ruled off to the best price and dividends 475 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: combined pre franking, of about twelve percent. Put in franking 476 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: is probably thirteen to fourteen percent, which is very nice, 477 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: thank you, and most people will be very happy with that. 478 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: But when you look inside the market, there's real winners 479 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: and there's real losers every year and this year is 480 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: no exception. And I suppose the message from this, John 481 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: is even the billionaires don't know, and even billionaires get 482 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: it very right and very wrong. 483 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: Yes, they've just got a bit more money to play with, perhaps. 484 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: James, but I'm sure it still hurts. John's all right, 485 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: we'll be back in the moment and we have some 486 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: great questions coming up. Hello and welcome back to The 487 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby, Wealth editor at 488 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: The Australian, talking to John stenciled Rich, two fifty, editor 489 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: at The Australian. What time of the year does that 490 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: come out, John? 491 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 2: Come to here every March, James, every March. Yep. Then 492 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 2: I have to have a better two month holiday afterwards 493 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 2: to recover. 494 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: Yeah you do, I know, I know, And you have 495 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: a damn good holiday, John, And you're back and tell me, 496 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: but you do. Whether there's spin offs too, isn't there 497 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: on that you might just tell people? What other lists 498 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: there are to look out for. 499 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: Oh, I definitely don't look at Yeah, we have a 500 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: look at you Who's the best, worse, who have a 501 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 2: look at all sorts of stories that are sort of 502 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: come from the list as well. But we also do 503 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: Top Innovators List, which is very you know, very very popular. 504 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 2: That's more of our technology that does that. That's a 505 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 2: really that's probably the next The Rich List is of tomorrow. 506 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 2: There several other other ones we do. 507 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always interesting, it's always interesting. And I did 508 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: love to cover this year of the Rick list of 509 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: that guy and one of the pictures he's on a 510 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: Lamborghini yellow Lamborghini eating a burger with his beard and 511 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: he speeded haircut and everything. Who's he again? 512 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 2: Adrian Portelli? 513 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: What's his business? 514 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 2: The l MCT plus, which is basically he sort of 515 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 2: does giveaways fore your membership and it gives away you know, 516 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 2: boats and cars and houses and big on you know, 517 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 2: the sort of TV shows where where houses go under option, 518 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 2: which for a competitors television channel allows. 519 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: It's like an updated version of coupons. 520 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: Is that all exactly right? The digital version of it. 521 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,719 Speaker 2: And he's making a lot of money out of it. 522 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: All those Lamborghinis, the digital version. 523 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, that's why he was happy to pose with 524 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: a burger on a Lamborghinia, because it's all in his interest. Yeah, 525 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: very good. Well, it was the most it was. It 526 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: really was a stunning looking covers. Okay, the questions Melanie 527 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: on the stock splits. We've had questions about stock splits 528 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: and how they were understandably off the back of the 529 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: Invidia split, which of course is so popular and we've 530 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,959 Speaker 1: already mentioned it on the show in the first segment. 531 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: So Melanie says, you mentioned about stock splits and a 532 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: big one recently. Yes, it is the video with the 533 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: giant share split happening. Now it's ten for one. So 534 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: that means if you have Nvidia shares, look at you 535 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: like James Packer and you, the two of you, you 536 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: both have shares for everyone you've got. Suddenly you've got ten. 537 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: It makes no difference to the price, right, if the 538 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: price is one hundred dollars, then you still have one 539 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: hundred dollars worth of Vidia shares. It's just that you 540 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: have ten now and you used to have one. That's 541 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: how it goes. For what it's worth, folks, Tesla has 542 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: done two stock splits. In recent times they did five 543 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: for one, and then more recently they did a three 544 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: for one, and in our mark the best known is 545 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: CSL they did one in nineteen ninety seven and then 546 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: they did another one in two oh seven which was 547 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: three for one. So while ago they haven't done one since. 548 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: Generally it's an issue for a start that's just going fantastically, 549 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: isn't it. 550 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 2: Basically Basically that share price gets up, you know, sometimes 551 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 2: it's think the hundreds of dollars, right, it just becomes 552 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 2: almost done wildly in a way for it to keep 553 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: trading in that level, they will do a yeah, ten 554 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 2: for one. I'm saying, you know, five for one, three 555 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: for one sort of brings it back to some sort 556 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 2: of more reasonable number, I suppose, but doesn't necessarily change 557 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,479 Speaker 2: you know what, you know what your percentage holding what happens. 558 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 2: But I think there's been another coming over time too. 559 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: I remember Network ten I think did something like that 560 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 2: at one stage two a few years ago before it 561 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: went off the A six. I remember one James a 562 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 2: few years ago. Now Quiller Resources. This is a little 563 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 2: bit different where they used to issue bonus shares, which 564 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: is a different theme where every every Christmas a felt 565 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: like it was literally your Christmas has all came at once, 566 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 2: where if you had one a quiller share, you get 567 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: a bonus share issue. There sort of thing was to, well, 568 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 2: we need to increase liquidity in the stock, so we'll 569 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 2: issue bonus shares. But then then it got taken over 570 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 2: and it's founder Tony Polly, who already had a very 571 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: big shareholder, is obviously his shares twice as many shares 572 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 2: several times over and ended up on the on the 573 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 2: riches to fifty where he still sits today because of that. 574 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 2: So so that's a little bit different to this, to 575 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: the to the stock splits though, but it's an interesting phenomenon. Time. 576 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, generally assign at good times all these things. 577 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: And as this is probably patently obvious by now, damn 578 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: good times in videos, and that's why they're doing a 579 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: stock split. It's not great times for test. They won't 580 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: be doing splace anytime soon because it's this dropping past 581 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: and up. They don't have to worry about it being 582 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: too big. 583 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 2: Now. 584 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it's going to last forever, but it's 585 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: not so well right now. And I know a lot 586 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: of our listeners have Tesla shares most of what commonly 587 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: held overseas stuff in Australia, certainly until very recently. I 588 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: think that could change to the video really soon. Okay. 589 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: Our final question, because we're running out of time, is 590 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: from Josh. Do you think the government guarantee of two 591 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand per person per bank will increase? 592 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: And when was the last increase to the camp It's 593 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: just such a good question, Josh, I'm talking. I may 594 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: be open to correction, but I don't think so. This 595 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: was introduced in the depths of the financial crisis in 596 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: two eight, when all the world was doing. This started, 597 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: if you don't mind, by the Irish government who came 598 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: out with great confidence and said they would guarantee all 599 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: the Irish currency, which wasn't that hard to do since 600 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: in fact it was the European Central Bank behind it all. 601 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: And then they were followed by many countries, including Australia, 602 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: where there never had been an explicit guarantee on your 603 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: money introduced at the time, and it remains. It's not 604 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: indexed as far as I know, so it's never been changed, 605 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of games being played around indexing 606 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: as you would all know, because inflation is quite strong 607 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: at the moment, and if you don't index something, the 608 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: government basically gets more money. That's played this week in 609 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: the new Southwest state budget where they're not going to 610 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: index the land tax threshold. It's being played by the 611 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: federal government in the superannuation three million tacks where they're 612 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: not indexing that threshold. 613 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: But that's it. 614 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: That's a debad for another day. John stands so busy man, 615 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: we will let you off. Thank you very much for 616 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: being on the show. It's great to have you always. 617 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: Good pleasure as always, James, Thanks John, and thanks everybody. 618 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: Keep the questions rolling. I have had. It's funny they 619 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: common waves. I've had lots of questions, but I have 620 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: the capacity for lots more, so keep them rolling. Please 621 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: the money puzzle at the Australian dot com dot au. 622 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: Talk to you soon.