1 00:00:03,930 --> 00:00:06,750 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,020 --> 00:00:09,420 Sean Aylmer: Since the federal election last year, there's been a real 3 00:00:09,420 --> 00:00:13,049 Sean Aylmer: focus on international relations, including a major effort to engage 4 00:00:13,049 --> 00:00:15,959 Sean Aylmer: with our own region. The biggest challenge, of course, is 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,860 Sean Aylmer: our relationship with China. It's our largest trading partner, but 6 00:00:19,860 --> 00:00:22,620 Sean Aylmer: relations soured a few years ago when crippling tariffs were 7 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:25,560 Sean Aylmer: imposed on a range of exports. Things are improving, but 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,950 Sean Aylmer: even putting China to one side, there are enormous opportunities 9 00:00:28,950 --> 00:00:32,309 Sean Aylmer: within Asia for Australian businesses. Today I want to find 10 00:00:32,309 --> 00:00:35,190 Sean Aylmer: out just how big those opportunities are and how we're 11 00:00:35,190 --> 00:00:39,450 Sean Aylmer: going to take advantage of them. Asialink Business is Australia's National 12 00:00:39,450 --> 00:00:42,930 Sean Aylmer: Centre for Asia Capability hosted by the University of Melbourne. 13 00:00:43,229 --> 00:00:45,240 Sean Aylmer: For the last decade, the center has been working with 14 00:00:45,269 --> 00:00:49,710 Sean Aylmer: Australian organisations to expand trade ties in Asia, a mandate 15 00:00:49,769 --> 00:00:52,559 Sean Aylmer: that was recently renewed by the government with almost $15 million 16 00:00:52,830 --> 00:00:56,160 Sean Aylmer: of funding in this year's federal budget. Leigh Howard is 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,370 Sean Aylmer: the CEO of Asialink Business. Leigh, welcome to Fear and Greed. 18 00:00:59,850 --> 00:01:00,960 Leigh Howard: Yeah, thanks. Great to be with you. 19 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,929 Sean Aylmer: Such a big topic to try and cover. Is there 20 00:01:06,929 --> 00:01:10,350 Sean Aylmer: a single biggest opportunity in Asia for Australia right now, 21 00:01:10,350 --> 00:01:12,359 Sean Aylmer: or where are the big opportunities? 22 00:01:13,650 --> 00:01:17,160 Leigh Howard: It's a great question. I would characterise this as that 23 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,789 Leigh Howard: the growing diversity of Asia is a blessing and a curse, 24 00:01:20,789 --> 00:01:24,208 Leigh Howard: overall more of a blessing than anything, but there are 25 00:01:24,719 --> 00:01:29,160 Leigh Howard: more and more markets coming online. We're talking about countries 26 00:01:29,190 --> 00:01:34,318 Leigh Howard: that have always been relatively populous compared to Australia's size, 27 00:01:34,590 --> 00:01:37,740 Leigh Howard: but these countries are becoming increasingly affluent as well. So 28 00:01:37,740 --> 00:01:41,789 Leigh Howard: as they come online, as the average person in those 29 00:01:41,789 --> 00:01:45,000 Leigh Howard: countries as a consumer can afford the premium goods and 30 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,049 Leigh Howard: services that Australia likes to export, then each of them has 31 00:01:49,049 --> 00:01:50,400 Leigh Howard: something to offer in their own right. 32 00:01:51,690 --> 00:01:54,630 Sean Aylmer: The tyranny of distance we always talked about, perhaps we 33 00:01:54,630 --> 00:01:56,819 Sean Aylmer: are actually getting our payback now because we are so 34 00:01:56,820 --> 00:01:58,650 Sean Aylmer: close to Asia and indeed part of Asia? 35 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,400 Leigh Howard: Yeah, definitely. And there's a common phrase that Asia's on 36 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,789 Leigh Howard: our doorstep. Some countries in Asia might sort of turn 37 00:02:05,789 --> 00:02:08,460 Leigh Howard: it around and say we're on their doorstep. And, look, 38 00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:12,690 Leigh Howard: we're closer to some than others. So definitely relative to proximity, 39 00:02:13,020 --> 00:02:16,200 Leigh Howard: the markets of Southeast Asia really present themselves as being 40 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:21,330 Leigh Howard: our nearest neighbours. Indonesia in particular, a large country by population, 41 00:02:21,330 --> 00:02:26,190 Leigh Howard: but a large country by GDP as well. Another G20 42 00:02:26,519 --> 00:02:30,090 Leigh Howard: compatriot of Australia's, but really our trade and investment relationship 43 00:02:30,090 --> 00:02:34,109 Leigh Howard: is well underdone compared to the size of two neighbouring economies. 44 00:02:34,679 --> 00:02:36,270 Sean Aylmer: So why do you think we have, I mean, I 45 00:02:36,270 --> 00:02:39,299 Sean Aylmer: want to get into the opportunities in China and Indonesia and 46 00:02:39,508 --> 00:02:42,180 Sean Aylmer: India and those sorts of places, but why have we 47 00:02:42,180 --> 00:02:45,270 Sean Aylmer: underdone it so much thus far? And maybe we'll just park 48 00:02:45,270 --> 00:02:47,310 Sean Aylmer: China for the moment, but other economies? 49 00:02:48,060 --> 00:02:51,089 Leigh Howard: Oh, there's a few valid reasons for this. First of all, 50 00:02:51,150 --> 00:02:55,079 Leigh Howard: the nature of Australia's business ventures overseas. So by and large, 51 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:00,059 Leigh Howard: commodities have played a big part in Australia's trade story, 52 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:03,419 Leigh Howard: and that's been wonderful. It's delivered some fantastic economic outcomes 53 00:03:03,419 --> 00:03:06,870 Leigh Howard: for Australia, but commodities are often driven by where you 54 00:03:06,870 --> 00:03:10,050 Leigh Howard: get the best price. It's described as being more transactional 55 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:14,849 Leigh Howard: compared to actually going into a market, doing your business, establishing 56 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,449 Leigh Howard: on the ground operations, understanding the local consumer and all 57 00:03:18,449 --> 00:03:20,730 Leigh Howard: of the localisation that has to come into your thinking 58 00:03:20,730 --> 00:03:25,080 Leigh Howard: around market entry and market success. So to a certain extent, 59 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,520 Leigh Howard: that's dominated our export story. Also, what's often characterised as 60 00:03:29,849 --> 00:03:33,328 Leigh Howard: good times at home. So the Australian economy, by virtue 61 00:03:33,389 --> 00:03:36,630 Leigh Howard: in some ways those contribution of exports to the Australian economy, 62 00:03:37,230 --> 00:03:41,430 Leigh Howard: Australia enjoyed decades of uninterrupted growth up until COVID, and 63 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:45,480 Leigh Howard: that meant, domestically, we had a robust economy. Unfortunately as 64 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,390 Leigh Howard: well, to a certain extent, the growth in the property market 65 00:03:48,660 --> 00:03:51,449 Leigh Howard: tended to take up some of the investment dollar that 66 00:03:51,450 --> 00:03:54,419 Leigh Howard: might have otherwise gone to outward ventures. So there's a 67 00:03:54,420 --> 00:04:00,030 Leigh Howard: few reasons why the nature of Australia's relationship, economically, with other 68 00:04:00,030 --> 00:04:04,620 Leigh Howard: markets has been about more transactional approaches to doing business. 69 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,480 Leigh Howard: But now that we're experiencing more challenging circumstances and there's 70 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,969 Leigh Howard: only growing opportunities in Asia, it really is time for 71 00:04:11,969 --> 00:04:14,880 Leigh Howard: Australian companies to muscle up in terms of their understanding 72 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,850 Leigh Howard: of those markets and to seek out those opportunities that 73 00:04:17,850 --> 00:04:19,140 Leigh Howard: can bring success. 74 00:04:19,529 --> 00:04:23,070 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so let's talk about Indonesia. I think there's 275 75 00:04:23,070 --> 00:04:26,430 Sean Aylmer: million people thereabouts, 270, 280 million people in Indonesia, I think. 76 00:04:26,820 --> 00:04:31,618 Sean Aylmer: Right on our doorstep. Where are the opportunities in Indonesia 77 00:04:31,620 --> 00:04:32,880 Sean Aylmer: for Australian business? 78 00:04:34,290 --> 00:04:36,390 Leigh Howard: So first of all, you start simply with the size 79 00:04:36,390 --> 00:04:39,900 Leigh Howard: of the Indonesian population and so that you get people 80 00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:43,080 Leigh Howard: who as they start to move up the per capita 81 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,500 Leigh Howard: income stakes, they start to look to enjoy more high- 82 00:04:46,500 --> 00:04:48,690 Leigh Howard: quality products and services. So first of all, you start 83 00:04:48,690 --> 00:04:52,860 Leigh Howard: with food and agribusiness. So people want to access better food. 84 00:04:52,980 --> 00:04:55,290 Leigh Howard: They look for more protein in their diet. So that's 85 00:04:55,290 --> 00:04:58,080 Leigh Howard: where you see opportunities for areas where Australia's traditionally strong 86 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,190 Leigh Howard: in terms of red meat, grains, dairy, these types of categories. 87 00:05:02,250 --> 00:05:05,430 Leigh Howard: So you can expect opportunities to open up there. We've 88 00:05:05,430 --> 00:05:09,210 Leigh Howard: also got still commodity opportunities in terms of exporting some 89 00:05:09,210 --> 00:05:12,240 Leigh Howard: of those raw resources, although Indonesia has some of those 90 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,419 Leigh Howard: for themselves. But then you get things like education, you 91 00:05:15,420 --> 00:05:17,789 Leigh Howard: get healthcare, all of these things that go with a 92 00:05:17,790 --> 00:05:22,139 Leigh Howard: modernising society. Indonesia's looking to industrialise. They're also thinking about 93 00:05:22,139 --> 00:05:25,770 Leigh Howard: their manufacturing mix that's playing out, particularly in terms of 94 00:05:25,860 --> 00:05:29,428 Leigh Howard: looking at vehicles, electric vehicles specifically. So there is a 95 00:05:29,430 --> 00:05:34,349 Leigh Howard: conversation about where Australia's contribution to critical minerals that play 96 00:05:34,349 --> 00:05:37,230 Leigh Howard: a role in producing batteries and these types of things 97 00:05:37,230 --> 00:05:40,318 Leigh Howard: that can be formed part of the EV value chain. 98 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,700 Leigh Howard: So a range of opportunities, still a lot to be explored. 99 00:05:44,940 --> 00:05:47,250 Leigh Howard: It's really interesting with Indonesia, it is one of those 100 00:05:47,250 --> 00:05:52,410 Leigh Howard: economies that has moved from being almost a commodity- intensive industry, 101 00:05:52,410 --> 00:05:55,409 Leigh Howard: it's a economy itself, to being one that now has 102 00:05:55,410 --> 00:05:58,589 Leigh Howard: more complementarities to Australia's export profile. 103 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,350 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Leigh. We'll be back in a minute. 104 00:06:07,350 --> 00:06:11,130 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Leigh Howard, CEO of Asialink Business. The 105 00:06:11,130 --> 00:06:13,259 Sean Aylmer: cultural difference, I mean, we know how to trade with 106 00:06:13,259 --> 00:06:14,849 Sean Aylmer: New Zealand, and we know how to trade with the 107 00:06:14,849 --> 00:06:16,650 Sean Aylmer: UK, and in some ways we know how to trade 108 00:06:16,650 --> 00:06:20,130 Sean Aylmer: with China. Do we know how to trade with Indonesia? 109 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,630 Sean Aylmer: Culture probably isn't the right term to use here, so 110 00:06:24,750 --> 00:06:28,259 Sean Aylmer: pardon my ignorance, but kind of in a like- for- 111 00:06:28,260 --> 00:06:29,070 Sean Aylmer: like manner, Leigh. 112 00:06:30,420 --> 00:06:33,120 Leigh Howard: It's a journey. We're getting there. You're exactly right, there's 113 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,509 Leigh Howard: a huge comfort factor with trading with other Western markets, 114 00:06:36,510 --> 00:06:39,270 Leigh Howard: and we still see that in terms of where Australian 115 00:06:39,270 --> 00:06:41,460 Leigh Howard: businesses are most likely to hop on a plane and 116 00:06:41,460 --> 00:06:44,039 Leigh Howard: go to to explore new markets, and they can be 117 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,300 Leigh Howard: the already saturated and competitive markets of Europe and North America, 118 00:06:48,750 --> 00:06:50,969 Leigh Howard: but there's a massive comfort factor there that also plays 119 00:06:50,969 --> 00:06:53,759 Leigh Howard: out in terms of outbound investment. I mean, you're probably 120 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,880 Leigh Howard: more likely to see a higher rate of Australian investment 121 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,729 Leigh Howard: into a European country than you are into a much 122 00:06:59,730 --> 00:07:04,559 Leigh Howard: larger Asian country, unfortunately. We're getting there. You're exactly right. 123 00:07:04,559 --> 00:07:09,389 Leigh Howard: We built this knowledge, this understanding, this cultural capability or 124 00:07:09,389 --> 00:07:13,020 Leigh Howard: cultural understanding with a market like China and started on 125 00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:16,230 Leigh Howard: that journey a couple of decades ago. Wasn't easy. I mean, 126 00:07:16,890 --> 00:07:21,330 Leigh Howard: there's no shortage of barriers in terms of language, cultural, regulatory, 127 00:07:21,599 --> 00:07:24,360 Leigh Howard: and then just the nature of doing business in those environments. 128 00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:27,959 Leigh Howard: So again, there's a choice for Australian businesses to think about, well, 129 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,449 Leigh Howard: which markets should they be looking at? Which one's the 130 00:07:30,449 --> 00:07:34,080 Leigh Howard: right one for their products, their services? But also the 131 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,630 Leigh Howard: type of enterprise they are, are they a small business, 132 00:07:36,630 --> 00:07:39,570 Leigh Howard: a large business? All these types of things as well. 133 00:07:39,570 --> 00:07:41,820 Leigh Howard: And then the work you have to do to enter 134 00:07:41,820 --> 00:07:43,679 Leigh Howard: each market to then to pick one and say, well, 135 00:07:43,679 --> 00:07:45,929 Leigh Howard: that's the one that I'm going to invest in, getting 136 00:07:45,929 --> 00:07:48,870 Leigh Howard: my organisation to get its head around doing business in that 137 00:07:48,870 --> 00:07:53,370 Leigh Howard: environment and being successful. So there's no shortage of challenges, 138 00:07:53,370 --> 00:07:55,290 Leigh Howard: but it's the size of the prize on the other 139 00:07:55,290 --> 00:07:58,380 Leigh Howard: side of the equation that's really activating interest, not just 140 00:07:58,380 --> 00:08:01,499 Leigh Howard: by Australian businesses, but by businesses around the world to 141 00:08:01,590 --> 00:08:03,300 Leigh Howard: play a part in Asia's future. 142 00:08:04,109 --> 00:08:06,900 Sean Aylmer: There seems to be no bigger prize than India, maybe 143 00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:09,060 Sean Aylmer: China, but I think India is growing faster than China, 144 00:08:09,060 --> 00:08:12,690 Sean Aylmer: and they're both about 1. 4 billion people. We, well, 145 00:08:12,780 --> 00:08:15,420 Sean Aylmer: Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister, obviously has had a bit 146 00:08:15,420 --> 00:08:18,690 Sean Aylmer: to do with Narendra Modi, the Indian Prime Minister recently. 147 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,010 Sean Aylmer: India has been a very difficult economy for Australian businesses to 148 00:08:23,010 --> 00:08:25,589 Sean Aylmer: get into. We've had ANZ Bank did it once with Grindlays, I 149 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,440 Sean Aylmer: think, they did a great job. But generally we haven't 150 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,780 Sean Aylmer: been very good at India. Why is that and can 151 00:08:30,780 --> 00:08:31,440 Sean Aylmer: we get better? 152 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,338 Leigh Howard: Well, a part of this I put down to where 153 00:08:35,340 --> 00:08:38,310 Leigh Howard: India was in terms of its stage of economic development. 154 00:08:38,370 --> 00:08:43,740 Leigh Howard: So India's coming online, again, that GDP per capita, or 155 00:08:43,740 --> 00:08:46,500 Leigh Howard: even more than that, the emergence of an affluent class 156 00:08:46,500 --> 00:08:49,140 Leigh Howard: in India that, again, is looking to get its hands 157 00:08:49,140 --> 00:08:53,280 Leigh Howard: on premium goods and services. Also, the development of the 158 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:58,289 Leigh Howard: economy in terms of infrastructure, manufacturing, development, all of these 159 00:08:58,289 --> 00:09:01,980 Leigh Howard: things that are there, they're really quite appealing. And technology. 160 00:09:02,070 --> 00:09:06,540 Leigh Howard: I mean, we've often known India's profile as the sort 161 00:09:06,540 --> 00:09:09,480 Leigh Howard: of IT hub of the world. Well, that's playing out in terms of 162 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,290 Leigh Howard: the Indian economy itself. It's got a really strong digital 163 00:09:13,290 --> 00:09:17,400 Leigh Howard: component in its economy. Digital payments processing is just through 164 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,429 Leigh Howard: the roof, and so there's opportunities for Australian companies to 165 00:09:20,429 --> 00:09:23,880 Leigh Howard: play a part in that growth story. What's really amazing 166 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,309 Leigh Howard: is not just our interest in India, but India's interest 167 00:09:26,309 --> 00:09:29,190 Leigh Howard: in Australia. I mean that India's looking around the world 168 00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:32,250 Leigh Howard: for who it's going to partner with in its modernisation. 169 00:09:32,670 --> 00:09:35,490 Leigh Howard: Countries know that they won't get to where they want 170 00:09:35,490 --> 00:09:38,730 Leigh Howard: to get to without partnering with other countries or that 171 00:09:38,730 --> 00:09:41,250 Leigh Howard: it will take a lot longer to get there. And 172 00:09:41,309 --> 00:09:43,140 Leigh Howard: so there's parts of the Indian economy that have been 173 00:09:43,140 --> 00:09:47,010 Leigh Howard: quite protected over the years, but where those barriers are 174 00:09:47,010 --> 00:09:51,509 Leigh Howard: breaking down, it's really interesting that India sees a strong 175 00:09:51,509 --> 00:09:54,630 Leigh Howard: partnership with Australia. And so we signed what's referred to 176 00:09:54,630 --> 00:09:57,840 Leigh Howard: as a interim FTA or an early harvest free trade 177 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,840 Leigh Howard: agreement that came to force, but that was a stepping 178 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,599 Leigh Howard: stone towards a full FTA, which is on track to 179 00:10:03,599 --> 00:10:07,079 Leigh Howard: come in in the next 12 months, and that provides Australian exporters 180 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,350 Leigh Howard: with privileged access, unique access ahead of many of their 181 00:10:10,350 --> 00:10:12,359 Leigh Howard: international competitors to the Indian market. 182 00:10:13,469 --> 00:10:17,370 Sean Aylmer: None of this happens without some sort of geopolitical overlay. 183 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,368 Sean Aylmer: We have seen that in China, obviously. Australia seems to 184 00:10:20,370 --> 00:10:23,190 Sean Aylmer: be getting closer to some of its nearer neighbours though, 185 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,409 Sean Aylmer: the Quad is an example of that. But we do 186 00:10:25,410 --> 00:10:27,390 Sean Aylmer: seem to be getting closer with some of our neighbors. 187 00:10:28,410 --> 00:10:31,650 Leigh Howard: Yeah, look, there's a sense of alignment in terms of 188 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,910 Leigh Howard: where you have your diplomatic relations, your security relations, and 189 00:10:35,910 --> 00:10:39,540 Leigh Howard: therefore your people to people ties, and economic relations as 190 00:10:39,540 --> 00:10:43,170 Leigh Howard: well, and it's convenient sometimes to have those all aligned. 191 00:10:43,710 --> 00:10:47,910 Leigh Howard: China's played a uniquely large role in our trade story. 192 00:10:48,029 --> 00:10:51,300 Leigh Howard: I mean, the Australian economy, as dominant as China is 193 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:53,460 Leigh Howard: or as big a role as China plays in most 194 00:10:53,460 --> 00:10:57,000 Leigh Howard: trading countries' story, for Australia it's been large. I think 195 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,730 Leigh Howard: it reached a peak of something like 42% of Australian 196 00:10:59,730 --> 00:11:01,920 Leigh Howard: exports at one stage were going to China. I mean 197 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,828 Leigh Howard: that is a, you characterize that as just dominance to 198 00:11:04,830 --> 00:11:07,860 Leigh Howard: a degree that you don't normally see in other countries. 199 00:11:07,860 --> 00:11:11,578 Leigh Howard: Now, the stout with China means that there's been an 200 00:11:11,580 --> 00:11:14,849 Leigh Howard: agenda of diversification being pursued both by the government but 201 00:11:14,849 --> 00:11:18,328 Leigh Howard: by businesses themselves. So we're almost, there's an alignment there 202 00:11:18,690 --> 00:11:21,660 Leigh Howard: about the risk of being exposed to a single market, 203 00:11:21,660 --> 00:11:25,020 Leigh Howard: and so we've seen some pullback to a certain extent 204 00:11:25,050 --> 00:11:27,330 Leigh Howard: in terms of the exposure to the China market. Not that 205 00:11:27,330 --> 00:11:30,150 Leigh Howard: it's not going to be the dominant destination for our 206 00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:34,080 Leigh Howard: exports anytime soon, but it has caused folks to pause 207 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,799 Leigh Howard: and reflect and to think about their trade strategies, where 208 00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:40,440 Leigh Howard: they want to be going, and then building both relations 209 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,350 Leigh Howard: and knowledge of alternative markets. In the long run, that's 210 00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:45,150 Leigh Howard: a healthy thing. I think there's a lot of us 211 00:11:45,210 --> 00:11:48,478 Leigh Howard: in the trade space who think that diversification of Australia's 212 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,940 Leigh Howard: export profile is a healthy thing. Perhaps just that the 213 00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:54,389 Leigh Howard: reasons why this occurred or what instigated this change probably 214 00:11:54,420 --> 00:11:58,080 Leigh Howard: was not ideal because there were Australian businesses who were 215 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,319 Leigh Howard: impacted overnight by some of those trade bans, and it really 216 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,680 Leigh Howard: knocked them around unfairly, so. But in the long run, 217 00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:09,660 Leigh Howard: building awareness, understanding of other export markets gives Australian businesses 218 00:12:09,660 --> 00:12:13,259 Leigh Howard: more options and means they've got some choice around where 219 00:12:13,259 --> 00:12:16,829 Leigh Howard: they send their exports, pricing, all of those types of things. 220 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,200 Sean Aylmer: Leigh, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 221 00:12:20,070 --> 00:12:20,490 Leigh Howard: Thank you. 222 00:12:21,270 --> 00:12:24,090 Sean Aylmer: That was Leigh Howard, CEO of Asialink Business at the 223 00:12:24,090 --> 00:12:26,968 Sean Aylmer: University of Melbourne. This is the Fear and Greed Daily 224 00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:29,159 Sean Aylmer: interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of 225 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,610 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean 226 00:12:32,610 --> 00:12:33,689 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Enjoy your day.