Speaker 1: Welcome to How Do They Afford That, The podcast that
Speaker 1: peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Michael Thompson.
Speaker 1: I'm an author and the co host of the business
Speaker 1: news podcast Fear and Greed. As always, I'm with Canna Campbell,
Speaker 1: financial planner and founder of Sugar Mama TV, the financial
Speaker 1: literacy platform covering YouTube, podcast books, Instagram threads, TikTok and more.
Speaker 1: Hello Kanna, Good morning Canna. Today we're talking something a
Speaker 1: little bit different. This is actually going to be a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. I suspect we are talking about your
Speaker 1: financial personality because most people genuinely aren't bad with money,
Speaker 1: They just approach it in a certain way. And once
Speaker 1: you understand how you approach money, things start to make sense.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: That's the theory that I'm operating on for this episode,
Speaker 1: and I'm hoping that it's going to be correct. Do
Speaker 1: you believe that people do have distinct financial personalities?
Speaker 2: You do? Want to be really honest. When I first
Speaker 2: heard about this, likeinancial personality, like my eyes.
Speaker 1: Rolled, what you would never roll your eyes?
Speaker 2: But then I realized actually developed by various psychologists and
Speaker 2: also a framework I believe within the Maya Briggs Company
Speaker 2: as well, So this has got some significant research and
Speaker 2: experts behind it. So after looking into it and seeing
Speaker 2: where I fit, my kids even fit you know, Tom fits,
Speaker 2: I do actually think these personalities, I guess pigeonholing these
Speaker 2: different personalities in life around money definitely have value and people.
Speaker 2: You can start to see some really distinct characteristics and
Speaker 2: habits and even people's natural reactions that do actually fit
Speaker 2: within these. I guess you're almost like the financial staff scigns.
Speaker 1: What I love about this is it's very much like
Speaker 1: doing a quiz in a magazine, which which financial personality
Speaker 1: are you and today? Actually that's a very old school
Speaker 1: reference to make, because no one does quizzes in magazines
Speaker 1: like that. It is now going to be on Facebook
Speaker 1: or Instagram where you take a quiz and figure out
Speaker 1: which personality type you are. So we're going to do that.
Speaker 1: We've got five different financial personalities and as you're listening,
Speaker 1: you might kind of go, actually, that is me. I
Speaker 1: am one of these. But just quickly, before we get
Speaker 1: into it, how much of your financial personality do you
Speaker 1: think it actually learned? Do you how much is inherited?
Speaker 1: Do you get it from your parents, your environment, kind
Speaker 1: of early experiences. Where do these things come from?
Speaker 2: I think a lot is learned and our earliest experiences
Speaker 2: with money are, more often than not, you know, come
Speaker 2: from our childhood, which was often our parents. So the
Speaker 2: way our parents talked about money, you know, whether there
Speaker 2: was money or not, or whether there was money all
Speaker 2: the time or it was very volatile in some situations,
Speaker 2: you know, the way that parents would talk about money.
Speaker 2: You know, all of these things impact our money personality.
Speaker 2: And then it also includes dealing with you know, how
Speaker 2: parents dealt with financially stressful times. So this really does
Speaker 2: help form our I guess, grounding of personalities when it
Speaker 2: comes to money and how we react to money, and
Speaker 2: how we treat money and how we look at money
Speaker 2: for the future.
Speaker 1: Let's get into the personality types. Give us the first one.
Speaker 2: The avoid So this is someone who buries their head
Speaker 2: in the sand. Yes, no, they find money very stressful
Speaker 2: and very overwhelming. So therefore they just completely disengage from it.
Speaker 2: You know, they don't open their mail, they don't look
Speaker 2: at their bank statements, they definitely don't have a budget.
Speaker 1: Oh gos, so I'm not this thing. You're actually shuddering
Speaker 1: as you say this, I'm assuming superannuation wouldn't get much
Speaker 1: of a look in.
Speaker 2: It's just none whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Accumulating in the background rather than being actively kind of managed.
Speaker 2: And if the subject of like money or budgeting or investing,
Speaker 2: or where someone's talking about money, it feels they're riddle
Speaker 2: with anxiety. So the problem with the avoid is they
Speaker 2: tend to let financial problems compound over time. So they
Speaker 2: might have a little bit of debt, and because they
Speaker 2: continue to ignore it and avoid it, obviously that debt,
Speaker 2: especially if with interest rates of credit card sometimes around
Speaker 2: twenty two percent, it gets bigger and bigger. And this
Speaker 2: is where things can become, you know, bigger than ben her.
Speaker 2: They are insurmountable. Well can feel like it's insurmountable, and
Speaker 2: this is when things spiral out of control.
Speaker 1: Because though we are not all about the negativity here, no,
Speaker 1: every personality type does have its own strengths.
Speaker 2: It does the ying and the yang. So interestingly, though,
Speaker 2: avoiders can also be very conservative with money, and they
Speaker 2: can really benefit from some basic financial literacy, like really
Speaker 2: simple things like, for example, you know how to have
Speaker 2: a budget, how to have emergency money. And this is
Speaker 2: the group that will avoid taking silly, high risk decisions,
Speaker 2: particularly around you say, investing. Okay, so their strength, their
Speaker 2: superpower here is probably caution, and they will still progress financial,
Speaker 2: but they more of that consistent, slow, steady progression.
Speaker 1: So it feels like that can be kind of turbocharged
Speaker 1: by kind of use that caution to not go and
Speaker 1: make silly decisions. But with a little bit more engagement
Speaker 1: with your money, you can actually turn that into a
Speaker 1: superpower and get involved in your superannuation. Perhaps start investing cautiously, yes,
Speaker 1: but use it to your advantage exactly. Okay, I like that.
Speaker 1: The avoid that's number one. Number two, what is it?
Speaker 2: The optimizer?
Speaker 1: What is that?
Speaker 2: So this is actually this is classic tom My partner.
Speaker 2: So the optimizer loves numbers, and they like the spreadsheets,
Speaker 2: They love doing research. They love you know, comparing, for example,
Speaker 2: different energy providers, you know, switching utilities, negotiating rates.
Speaker 1: That's not Tom, that's you.
Speaker 2: No, No, this is Tom to a tea. I even
Speaker 2: had a bit of a giggle with him last night
Speaker 2: about this. So the strength here is discipline. They're very
Speaker 2: very focused, almost like a hyper focus, and strategic thinking,
Speaker 2: and they do make great meaningful financial decisions and see
Speaker 2: that and feel that financial progress in their lives. You know,
Speaker 2: they'll do the what if scenario, play a bit of
Speaker 2: Devil's Advocate, and really analyze everything before they actually pull
Speaker 2: the trigger. But this is the downsize of the optimizer
Speaker 2: is sometimes they can actually waste so much time and
Speaker 2: get a bit of analysis paralysis that they can never
Speaker 2: actually finally go all right, let's do this, or if
Speaker 2: they do finally say let's do this, that opportunity is
Speaker 2: past and they've actually ended up missing out completely.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the strength there is that they are quite
Speaker 1: strategic and great at research and pulling together all of
Speaker 1: the information, but they can get bogged down in it
Speaker 1: and just focus too much on the analysis and in
Speaker 1: the end perhaps not make a decision, or if they do,
Speaker 1: not in a timely manner.
Speaker 2: So they do their great at analyzing everything and making
Speaker 2: sure it's informed an educated decision, which is essential, but
Speaker 2: at the same time they could end up being their
Speaker 2: own their worst enemy because they don't actually get to
Speaker 2: actually do it, and they've potentially wasted some time and
Speaker 2: start all over again.
Speaker 1: I have a theory that everyone has at least one
Speaker 1: friend that is a spreadsheet nut right, And if you
Speaker 1: think about everyone that you know, there is someone in
Speaker 1: your life that spends an excessive amount of time in spreadsheets.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking in particular of someone that we've spoken
Speaker 1: to on this podcast before, Adam Lange from Fear and Greed.
Speaker 1: Absolute spreadsheet enthusiast, fantastic, Like you can take anything and
Speaker 1: turn it into a spreadsheet that in fact is a superpower.
Speaker 2: That is a superpower.
Speaker 1: Does that mean though, that if you are doing that
Speaker 1: for everything, how do you just how do you convert
Speaker 1: that attention to detail and that ability to analyze into
Speaker 1: that superpower and actually go okay, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: get held back by analysis paralysis. How do you then go.
Speaker 2: Shift into like implementation if you like, yes, okay. So
Speaker 2: this is where you almost need a deadline where you
Speaker 2: draw a line in the sand and go, okay, I'm
Speaker 2: going to make a decision by the end of this
Speaker 2: week either way. So you put a put of healthy
Speaker 2: pressure on yourself to actually step up and do something
Speaker 2: or not. And this is why you know there's a
Speaker 2: lot of value in the momentum of your financial journey.
Speaker 2: You can spend a whole year deciding as to whether
Speaker 2: to buy your stock or not. So set a plan
Speaker 2: to go. You know what, I'm going to buy stock
Speaker 2: every single month, and that's the goal, and that's the momentum.
Speaker 2: You've got to maintain.
Speaker 1: And you have fine to do the research and use
Speaker 1: your spreadsheet and to analyze it, but commit to action
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Give it yourself a healthy deadline. Okay, put a bit
Speaker 2: of pressure on.
Speaker 1: Yourself, all right. That is the first two, the avoider
Speaker 1: and the optimizer. What is the third financial personality type?
Speaker 2: The yolo? Who should I found like such a dog
Speaker 2: trying to say that cool? But theo I'm so not
Speaker 2: a yolo person, So I would say my middle child
Speaker 2: Apple is definitely a yollow. So these other people who
Speaker 2: like fly by the seed of their pants, you know,
Speaker 2: they love to spend money, They prioritize expenses, you know,
Speaker 2: living life. They're not obsessed with the future. In fact,
Speaker 2: I don't think they think too much about it, and
Speaker 2: they just really have faith that everything's going to work
Speaker 2: out perfectly. And obviously the danger of that is that
Speaker 2: life doesn't always work out perfectly because they are not
Speaker 2: prepared for those emergencies that do happen as a natural
Speaker 2: part of life, and sometimes they can only realize that
Speaker 2: they have perhaps been a little bit frivolous until it's
Speaker 2: a bit too late. Not that it's ever too late,
Speaker 2: but you know, when it comes really close to say
Speaker 2: something like retirement or you know, deciding one day I
Speaker 2: want to buy a home, then you realize you've been
Speaker 2: blowing money for the last thirty five years. So there
Speaker 2: is a superpower within this, so I promise go on.
Speaker 2: So the strength behind this is they have a very
Speaker 2: healthy I don't always say admirable, admirable attitude towards money.
Speaker 2: They don't carry that heavy load. So they don't carry,
Speaker 2: you know, the guilt or the shame or the embarrassment
Speaker 2: around spending because they really value the way that they
Speaker 2: spend money. It gives them a huge sense of fulfillment,
Speaker 2: which actually is a really important part of living a
Speaker 2: balanced life, you know, having a healthy mindset where you
Speaker 2: can enjoy spending your money as well as of course
Speaker 2: enjoy investing and saving and paying down debt.
Speaker 1: And they're a fun person to hang around with exactly.
Speaker 2: I mean, who doesn't want to live vicariously through that
Speaker 2: friend that just spends lots of money?
Speaker 1: And so the risk. There is obviously that they may
Speaker 1: be underprepared for what may come. But along the way,
Speaker 1: they're going to have a heck of a good time.
Speaker 2: No fabulous like the wonderful memories, but having just maybe
Speaker 2: perhaps a really simple financial structure in place, you know,
Speaker 2: such as a budget, maybe some concrete goals that really
Speaker 2: light them up and make them excited and be able
Speaker 2: to incorporate a sense of balance where they can spend
Speaker 2: their money. But they also can maybe think about reframing
Speaker 2: things where they also spend their money perhaps on investments
Speaker 2: and spend their money on superinneation. So it kind of
Speaker 2: fits into their personality by reframing.
Speaker 1: I like that. That's a fun one. The Yolo spender
Speaker 1: based entirely on their principle that you only live once.
Speaker 1: You may as well have a good time while they're
Speaker 1: doing it. But there's also a long period of time
Speaker 1: when you may be in retirement and you want to
Speaker 1: live that part of your life really well as well. Right,
Speaker 1: So that's how you kind of take that potentially a weakness,
Speaker 1: turn it into a superpower and turbocharge exactly. All right.
Speaker 1: That is three down, two to go, very quick break,
Speaker 1: and we are going to get into the rest of them. Cana.
Speaker 1: We are talking today about financial personalities. We have covered
Speaker 1: the avoid the optimizer that is a spreadsheet lover, the
Speaker 1: yolo spender that just really kind of prioritizes those experiences
Speaker 1: without obsessing over what is going to happen in the future.
Speaker 1: We've got a couple more still to go, and I
Speaker 1: want to kind of really getting this idea of whether
Speaker 1: your personality can help you or can hinder you in
Speaker 1: your financial growth. What's the fourth character.
Speaker 2: The security seeker. So these people really do value stability
Speaker 2: and safety above everything else, so they will maintain emergency money,
Speaker 2: sometimes excessive emergency money. They prefer low risk investments like
Speaker 2: you know, turn deposits, fixed interest, and they feel really
Speaker 2: safe and secure knowing that they've got all their buffers
Speaker 2: in place, and you know, across pretty much their budget,
Speaker 2: their savings, their holiday savings. They've completely built this like
Speaker 2: safety net around them at all times and they sort
Speaker 2: of cling onto it for dealer life. And their strength
Speaker 2: definitely here. Their superpower is financial resilience. So you know,
Speaker 2: they can handle the financial shocks better than anyone else,
Speaker 2: and you know they can obviously calmly react and because
Speaker 2: they've got these great buffers in place. You know, when
Speaker 2: things do happen, it doesn't really knock them off their feet,
Speaker 2: and they're able to sort of continue on swimming into
Speaker 2: the sunset. But obviously the downside of this is that
Speaker 2: they can actually it's detrimental and that they are too cautious.
Speaker 2: They miss out on those opportunities to actually get their
Speaker 2: money working for them through stepping not out of their
Speaker 2: comfort zone, but perhaps using intelligent risks to help improve
Speaker 2: the quality of their investments, the diversification and that long
Speaker 2: term compounding growth that is particularly important when you think
Speaker 2: about inflation over the long run.
Speaker 1: It feels as though, if, as you just put it,
Speaker 1: if they spend their time swimming off into the sunset,
Speaker 1: it feels like they might have a bit of a
Speaker 1: high risk attitude. Anyway, Sorry, who knows where they're going
Speaker 1: to end up swimming off into the sunset.
Speaker 2: Sailing off and not swinging So I got my words.
Speaker 1: This is where they get that buzz just swimming off
Speaker 1: into the sunset. They don't know where they're going to
Speaker 1: end up, going to drift to New Zealand today.
Speaker 2: Well, obviously they are risk averse.
Speaker 1: They are They are they're doing it with floaties on. Okay,
Speaker 1: so the risk there is that they're going to to
Speaker 1: perhaps be too conservative, miss those growth opportunities along the way.
Speaker 1: But at the same time they're going to be pretty
Speaker 1: calm about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they will. They'll be better off because they
Speaker 2: have built this these financial safety nets. But where they
Speaker 2: can really improve their superpower is actually just simple financial education.
Speaker 2: Understanding all the different asset classes, Understanding the impact of
Speaker 2: looking at a long term timeframe, Understanding the impact of
Speaker 2: inflation over the long run, Understanding the power of passive
Speaker 2: income of how capital growth increases your passive income over time.
Speaker 2: You know, also the strategic side of planning your money
Speaker 2: wisely as well. You're not having, for example, all of
Speaker 2: your money in savings when you could potentially have superannuation
Speaker 2: as well, helping you save tax, which is equivalent of
Speaker 2: zero risk involved when you're strategically using that type of
Speaker 2: asset class.
Speaker 1: I know we're stiuilding structure. I know we still have
Speaker 1: another category to get to, but before we do that,
Speaker 1: I just want to know the value of a financial planner,
Speaker 1: someone to advise you in this, to help you kind
Speaker 1: of bridge the gap from one financial characteristic to another
Speaker 1: because a security seeker sounds like they've they've got themselves sorted,
Speaker 1: they have got that kind of covered. They know that
Speaker 1: they're going to be kind of safe for a long time.
Speaker 1: But a financial planner can show them how they can
Speaker 1: maybe pursue a little bit more growth, a little bit
Speaker 1: higher returned without trading off too much of that security.
Speaker 2: Right. Yes, And look, you know, no financial planner will
Speaker 2: ever let you go and do something that you don't
Speaker 2: understand or they're not comfortable that you're comfortable with. You're
Speaker 2: not allowed to and you have to sign a whole
Speaker 2: part of documentation and that financial planner is then legally liable.
Speaker 2: So it's taken very very seriously. But I will say
Speaker 2: this quite often with the security seeker, they will not
Speaker 2: realize the impact and cost to them of being so
Speaker 2: conservative with money until quite further down the track. It's
Speaker 2: not until they've seen the eroding effects of their conservative
Speaker 2: investments and safety nets that they start thinking, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I now need to get help. So what I would
Speaker 2: say to anyone that feels like that they identify with
Speaker 2: this group is don't be afraid to go and get
Speaker 2: some financial advice and a financial planner. A good financial
Speaker 2: planner will guide you and will not push you out
Speaker 2: of your comfort zone. But perhaps it's a slow, steady
Speaker 2: journey where you include a little bit more shares in
Speaker 2: your portfolio or a little bit more property. We start
Speaker 2: to vary very slowly and almost organically diversify as passive
Speaker 2: income comes in and builds up. So it's not like
Speaker 2: you're going to just be thrown into the deep end.
Speaker 2: That's not what it's about. And you know people's you know,
Speaker 2: I think risk profiles really do change depending on what's
Speaker 2: happened to them. You know their situation and their goals,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's it's natural to evolve and move,
Speaker 2: but whatever you do should be a smart, intelligent move
Speaker 2: and not just be based upon fear.
Speaker 1: All right, one last one, what is it? This is
Speaker 1: our fifth financial personality.
Speaker 2: It is the quiet accumulator. I like to close the
Speaker 2: dark horse. So the quiet accumulator is often the most
Speaker 2: powerful financial personality over the long run. So they are
Speaker 2: very consistent, they are very diligent. They say they pay
Speaker 2: down debt, they invest without sort of making feeling the
Speaker 2: need to be validated or to get attention. And they're
Speaker 2: very patient, and they are really focused on their long
Speaker 2: term game plan.
Speaker 1: This is you, isn't it?
Speaker 2: It is yes, and it is it is me to
Speaker 2: a t. And they the risk to this because it
Speaker 2: sounds fabulous and wonderful. But and I can agree with
Speaker 2: this because I have felt this so many times. But
Speaker 2: the risk is this group sometimes becomes so incredibly absorbed
Speaker 2: and focused on the accumulation and working hard and staying
Speaker 2: focused and consistent that they actually forget to enjoy their
Speaker 2: money in the meantime in the present. And you know,
Speaker 2: it's that's the kind of sad part of this is,
Speaker 2: you know, we come to this planet with nothing, when
Speaker 2: we live with nothing, so we want to make sure
Speaker 2: we also enjoy a really healthy, happy balance at the
Speaker 2: same time with that money.
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense, So that the risk there is
Speaker 1: just that you may prioritize the growth of your money
Speaker 1: too much not enjoy it along the way. But at
Speaker 1: the same time you are going to be setting yourself
Speaker 1: up well. It feels like there is a very strong
Speaker 1: fire component.
Speaker 2: To this, definitely, and I think you know, there's also
Speaker 2: that risk of you start to only really enjoy life
Speaker 2: lay it further down the track, which obviously is about fire,
Speaker 2: but you know, maybe perhaps when you're old and not
Speaker 2: as healthier to be able to enjoy the money.
Speaker 1: We are pretty much out of time. But I just
Speaker 1: wanted to know in a couple, when you have financial
Speaker 1: personalities in a household and they are different, is that
Speaker 1: a strength or is that a weakness or is it
Speaker 1: just a potential conflict?
Speaker 2: So great question. I don't think there was very rare
Speaker 2: to see a couple with the same person money personality. Okay,
Speaker 2: I've only come across it probably a couple of times.
Speaker 2: Most couples have different And if you can understand your
Speaker 2: partner's money personality, like you know, I am the I
Speaker 2: I was quite accumulator and Tom is the optimizer, you
Speaker 2: can you learn how to actually communicate better. You understand
Speaker 2: their values, you understand their financial love language, so you
Speaker 2: can actually start working together as a team and you
Speaker 2: respect each other's boundaries, and you can start to have
Speaker 2: really healthy compromises on certain financial decisions and work together
Speaker 2: more as a team. So I think it's definitely worth
Speaker 2: investing time understanding where your financial personality lies, but also
Speaker 2: your other family members as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, guess which financial personality I am.
Speaker 2: I I would have gone with the optimizer, but then, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go with the optimizer. I think you're
Speaker 2: a bit there's a bit of tom there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right, But I'm a little ashamed
Speaker 1: to admit that I think that might be a hybrid
Speaker 1: of two of them.
Speaker 2: Well, ham, let me guess what your hybrid is. I'm
Speaker 2: going to say you are the security seeker.
Speaker 1: No, I am the optimizer combined with the avoider.
Speaker 2: Damn, why did I picked that? I should have thought
Speaker 2: that you cause, yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because I for a very long time have
Speaker 1: had my head in the sand on various pasts. But
Speaker 1: and it has made me very conservative in the way.
Speaker 2: We're actually a bit of a rainbow of these.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, yep. I mix a lot of different types,
Speaker 1: which this is why I find this fascinating, that it's
Speaker 1: almost kind of rare to find someone who would fit entirely,
Speaker 1: I think into one category.
Speaker 2: And I do think there are seasons of your life
Speaker 2: where you do dip into one more than the other,
Speaker 2: and you know, you do evolve and change over time.
Speaker 2: But I will say this, you know your financial personality
Speaker 2: is not something ever to judge. There's no wrong or
Speaker 2: right personality here, and it is something. It is a
Speaker 2: tool to be used to help understand yourself on a
Speaker 2: deeper level around money. And if you can understand your
Speaker 2: natural reaction and tendencies around money, you can actually start
Speaker 2: having Because you've got that awareness, you can actually start
Speaker 2: taking action and building the systems and the habits that
Speaker 2: can actually help you with your financial journey and actually
Speaker 2: work with you, not against you. So I really think
Speaker 2: investing a bit of time doing this is actually worthwhile.
Speaker 2: Even though I initially my eyes were rolling what I
Speaker 2: heard about this a couple of years.
Speaker 1: Ago, this has been great fun because I'm just thinking
Speaker 1: as well at home Sean is I was just gonna
Speaker 1: hate me saying this, but she is category three the
Speaker 1: yolo spender, which is an interesting clash then with the
Speaker 1: avoider slash optimizer that I am, but could also be
Speaker 1: a strength.
Speaker 2: Right. Look, if you're working together as a team and
Speaker 2: you are kicking goals and you're actually are enjoying the journey,
Speaker 2: your financial journey, I think you're heading in the right direction.
Speaker 1: That's a lovely way to finish it. Now the letter.
Speaker 1: I still feel bad about the fact that very early
Speaker 1: in the how Do They Afford That? Journey? We did
Speaker 1: an interview with the national newspaper you and I did,
Speaker 1: and the very first line of that article that ran
Speaker 1: in newspapers in every capital city talks about Michael Thompson
Speaker 1: and his splurging wife Shan and I found it again
Speaker 1: the other day and I showed it to it. He
Speaker 1: goes you described to me as splurging.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but it's one of
Speaker 1: those things. Once you say it to a reporter, it's
Speaker 1: on the record, right, yeah, God delete, That's so true?
Speaker 1: All right? Can where do we find you if we
Speaker 1: want more information?
Speaker 2: If you ever want to reach out to me, the
Speaker 2: best place is on Instagram at sugar on my TV.
Speaker 1: And you can hear me every day with Sean Aylmer
Speaker 1: on Fear and Greed business News. You can use. Thank
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