WEBVTT - Defusing bombs, cheating death: John Taylor Pt.2 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.039 Detective see aside of life the average person is never 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.119 exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.200 Welcome back to part two of my chat with former 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:53.400 tactical police officer John Taylor. In part one, we covered shootings, sieges, 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.720 and the high risk situations special operations officers confront. Now 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.840 add bomb to that list, because in part two, John 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:04.640 tells me what it's like to put on a forty 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.399 kilogram bomb suit and walk up to a suspicious package, 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.720 knowing if you make a mistake, it will literally be 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.199 the last mistake you ever make. John also talks about 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:19.080 what he does to unwind by climbing Mount Everest. He 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.800 also runs boot camps for elite professional sportsmen. Have a 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.360 listened to what John has to say. He certainly lived 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:31.120 a life of adventure. Well. I thoroughly enjoyed part one 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:35.319 hearing stories of tactical policing and all the things that 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.080 you've done. And that was really just scratching the surface 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.880 of some of the things you've done. But I think 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.959 it gave listeners a sense of what that type of 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.039 work involves. We're going to talk about then you are 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.480 going into the world of the bomb response unit and 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.040 how you got into that, but before we do, and 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.120 I think it'll save us getting into trouble or get 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.680 you in the good books. Anyway. I think one of 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.520 the things you're most proud of in what you've done 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.080 through your life is the fact that you've kept your 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.760 family together. You've raised some raised the kids, happily married 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.680 and in the world that you operated that doesn't always 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:12.320 play out. 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:14.919 Yeah, that's great. I've had a you know, my wife's 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.000 been very good, probably very patient in a way, considering 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.200 one year I missed her sixteenth, eighteenth and twenty first birthday. 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:23.000 You did the big three. 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.400 I missed the big three that goes with work. One 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.040 was a personal challenge too, but that's just the way 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.840 it happened. But yeah, you know, we missed a lot 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:33.320 of functions and things like, Oh, she went to a 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.560 lot of functions by herself. You know, I wasn't around 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.280 And that was just part of the cause. In the 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.000 early days, very hard on the family life. No mobile 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.839 phones and things like that. Senior sergeant would ring jan 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.720 and just say he probably went be home for a week. 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:50.200 He's got out to do his task and that was it, 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.800 you know. And she always trusted the guys, the boys, 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.600 the bosses and stuff like that. Had no qualms with that. 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.160 But Dad was a vionman for a lot of years 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.959 sort of understood the ship work, which help. 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.840 But yeah, you need that to be able to do 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.600 the things that you've done. You need that type of support. 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.639 And I'm sure that having that stability and knowing that 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.840 the home is safe, that your wife is looking after 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.240 things things there make it easier for you to concentrate 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:20.280 on doing what you're doing. 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah, she read the household really when it 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:25.519 comes down to it, Yeah, it would have been hard. 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:29.639 She's self employed us for dietriss, so basically eating starting off, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:33.000 she'd get home visits, you know, have all the equipment 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.720 and probably a baby in toe capsule. And yeah, she worked. 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.280 Hard while you're off flying around in helicopters and. 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.480 Yeah, we're getting paid to do this stuff and. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:47.840 Living the boy's own adventure. Okay, let's talk about diffusing bombs. Now. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.160 It's a very specialist field of policing. There's only a 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.080 small number of people that do it. And yeah, I 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.680 suggested there's be any a small number of people that 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.000 want to do it, and then you've got to have 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:05.520 the aptitude for it. What threw you into becoming a 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:07.240 member of the Bomb Response Unit? 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.360 Well, yeah, so you get into the SOG. You're all 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.960 tactical members. Everybody's a tactical member. It does house raids 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.359 and what we've discussed before, and then you can start 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.039 going to a special s fields, like some can be 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.360 a sniper, some can be a bomb tech, you know, 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.159 depending what comes up. And it was nineteen ninety so 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.520 I hadn't been in the group that long, and I 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.039 had shown an interest, you know, been to a few 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.120 scenes where I'll help get the equipment out but not 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.280 involved and a course was coming up and I saw 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.560 you wanted to become a bomb tech also to that 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.480 kind of field, so I was going to remain tactical, 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.000 but it was just an extra skill. And so in 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.760 ninety ninety I headed off to a place called Bandiana, 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.200 which is on the quarter of Victoria and New South Wales. 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:56.000 It's an army base and basically started my course there, 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.760 a four week course which was run by police jurisdiction 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.080 throughout Australia. So they have two police officers from each 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.280 state and territory there and we're using a military base, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.159 so we had some of their instructors. Plus we also 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.840 had previous bomb texts, experienced bomb texts from various states 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.760 who would be a director, assistant director and instructors and 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:19.760 things like that. So you do your four week course 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:22.760 there to start your bomb and like four week course 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.040 is not long, you know, it's an apprenticeship. 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.320 It would be a course that I'd be paying particular 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.280 attention to because. 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.480 You don't want to miss any lessons, that's for sure, 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.039 and it's passed failed. You know. In the early days, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.080 you know, there's nothing about compe season resetting things as 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.560 you know, you know it was you know, you either 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.440 passed or you failed, and you know the pressure. I 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:45.159 just got into the group, but you mean the group 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.359 probably a year and maagine going back to first Victorian 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:49.479 to fail a bomb course. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:51.039 You know when it came down to it, Yeah, you 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.920 don't want to carry that. Well, it might got rid 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.919 of your name as Calvin, you might have Calvin, Yeah, 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:01.279 got rid of that. But want to do that work 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.200 like that's you know that we talket the pressure of 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:08.440 being in the tactical terms, the sag and responding to incidents, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.240 but there's I think I'm just looking at there's another 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.400 level of pressure when you're okay, there's a package over there, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.120 and it happens so many times in police and I 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:23.400 don't think people fully appreciate how much effort then things 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.599 have to be done when there's a suspicious package. So 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:29.359 you're going to you're putting your hand up to be 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.680 the person that walks in and determines whether that's going 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:33.440 to blow you up. If you make a mistake in 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.599 this line of work, it's the last mistake you make. 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:38.120 Literally it is. 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.159 And I had a good mate, see sergeant, and basically 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.880 We used to say every met matters, so if you 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.480 could be a further meter away, that could be the 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.760 difference between your life or serious injury. So yeah, you're 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.479 trained basically to assess the situation, which with the equipment 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:59.039 you had in the early days, if you had a 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:03.080 suspicious band, you walk up with your X ray equipment, 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.640 you'd take an X ray of it, and like the 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.800 xtra equipment those days wasn't great and like, oh geez, 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.960 it is a bomb, now go and put the bombsuit on. 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.800 So we've changed now that you know, over the fifteen 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.400 years ago, we decided like, if we get caught the job, 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.600 it's a bomb until we determine it's not. So full equipment, equipment, 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.160 full bomb suit, it's required and use everything before we 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.080 actually try and put a member over the top of it. 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.840 And robots have got better these days, so you know, 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.520 it makes your job a lot easier. It just bends 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:34.680 the location where it is. 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.560 So what sort of appt you do you feel that 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.080 you need to be a bomb technician. 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.480 I think stick to the procedures that you've been taught. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:48.800 You know, there's no shortcuts, and I've had people, I've 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.280 filed people on courses that have done the wrong thing. 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.280 You know, I've had one guy removed from our unit 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:58.400 that made a bad mistake and make it it is lucky. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.120 It was lucky. Basically nothing happened, but he made a 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:05.280 bad decision. And as the upgraded senior stage in that time, 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.000 you know, I thought, advice this person. I think it's 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.440 just time that you move to another location. And he 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.480 understood the consequences, you know. So you know, I don't 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.400 want to be going to someone's family and saying you 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.560 made a mistake. With training now and all the equipment, 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.800 you don't take a risk, you know, and maybe this 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.080 will happen. Now you know what's going to happen. If 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.280 you're going to go up there and cut the red 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:28.880 wire or whatever that's going to disarm it, that's not 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:30.840 the way to go. But there's other ways of dealing 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:31.800 with it that you've been able. 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.200 We hold this could be great. Are you telling us 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.719 all those Hollywood films, do we cut the red or 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:38.320 the blue wire? Is bullshit? 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.240 Only on Fridays, right If you. 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.000 Want to knock off because you've got to get out, 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:44.400 let's just. 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:46.880 You just hope you're not color blind or something like that. 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.320 Yeah, yeah, but yeah, the skill sets. So a four 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.440 week four week course and I take on board each 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.440 meter matters that that's logical in its process, the way 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.559 that you've shifted assess of the situation that's a bomb 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.960 until you can improve otherwise. That all makes sense, But 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.679 it gets down to the point where you've got to approach. 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.520 At some stage, no matter what, some stage you have 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.760 to approach it and declear it's safe, and we run 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.520 our own course. Now in Victoria, things changed within the 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:20.080 government and basically every state turgory was to deal with 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:21.840 their own bomb techs and train their own bombics. Our 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.280 course is now five weeks long and it's only an 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.640 initial course. Really. The first week is actually getting your 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.679 explosive license. Originally you didn't have to have a license, 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:34.160 so under the work Safe and all that we had permission, 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:36.520 really good work safe that we could run our own 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:41.199 explosive course and give people their exposes licenses. Even as 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.400 a bomb tech, if you're driving around exploses, you've got 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.400 to have a license to do that. So everything's done 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.040 within the legislation and things like that. It's just important 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.720 that the first week's a good understanding the effect of 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.600 an explosive blast. Then you start putting fragmentation and all 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:58.479 that kind of stuff that have a good understanding. 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.800 Well, I think that's probably a good idea because if 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.000 it's not a fire cracker going off invariably, it can 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.319 be devastating, and so they give you an appreciation of that, 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.040 probably wake you up to make sure you're concentrating in 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:13.400 what you're being taught. 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.040 Yeah, well, you know when I did my course where 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:20.440 we had jelly knite, basically they don't have jelly knite 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.360 these days, which is really nitru It's base based, so 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.000 instink that heat, shock and friction, you know, has like 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.200 even a residue on it. You know, if you get 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.160 it on your hands you sort of scrape your forehead, 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.640 you'll come down with a terrible migraine. So it gets 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.520 into the poresy your skin. And basically when you get 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.040 jelly knife for the first time, you got to poke 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.079 a hole in it, and poke another hole and put 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.800 a detonator in it, you know, and make sure you 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:46.760 don't hit the little steel clip on the top and 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.200 correct friction and stuff like that. Different kind of level. Yeah, 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.920 you were nervous doing it, but it was exciting in 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.840 a way if you like fireworks exposure a lot better. 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.480 Right, Okay, look it's a bigger bank. Yeah, how like 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.960 you've got to you've got to be calm, and that 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.880 is that something you had or something that you trained 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:11.840 yourself for, because you really need to be focused, calm, 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.199 making informed, correct decisions. 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.640 Now, as a sergeant, you'd come up with a plan 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.280 how are you going to deal with a situation? And 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.840 my bomb techs, you know, the bontics I had. When 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.280 we're dressing them, you know I would have put a 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.520 plan together. This is what you're going to do, bang 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.960 bang bang bang bang abc D right through. Unless they 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.400 can think of themselves, you know, when they get out there, 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.600 it's changed the environment or whatever. But whilst we're dressing 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:41.800 and we're putting their overall pants on and then we're 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.080 putting their browin protection on them, they're thinking about the 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.520 tasks they have to do. Then we put the helmet 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.080 on and then basically then we put the big coat on, 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.000 we put gloves on so DNA fingerprints we don't contaminate 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.440 what we're dealing with. And then I'll say to him 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.400 before I drop that visor, what are you going to do? 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.800 And you'll go through a whole process of what he's. 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:01.080 Going to do. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.200 And then he's in lay maybe your forty kilo bomb 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.319 suit with that big helmet on, and he might have 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.920 to carry a few sandbags a twenty kilo shambag in 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.800 each hand. So they had to be extremely fit to 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.000 actually do that and think of what they have to 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:15.040 do when they get up there. 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.560 How did you feel the first time you put on 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.560 that bomb suit, Because I know, if you're wearing like 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.640 a gas maskt you're very You're sort of focus, you're 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.959 contained and all that. And I watch I've seen blokes 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.559 putting on the bomb suit and I'm thinking, okay, you're 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.720 part of a term. Everyone's with you at this stage. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.880 But once that vice goes down, you are very. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.360 Much You wipe your hands and yeah, that's it. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.400 Yeah we're with your John. We're just stand back here. 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.959 Well, the vis that you start perspiring, basically the breather 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.719 unit or the blower unit it's not working properly. Your 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.000 buys will start the fog up, and so you have 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:51.840 all these things and when you're walking up to the 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.559 first time, it may seem silly. You just had a habit. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.520 I used to fold the fingers up, you know, into 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.200 the sleeve as I'm walking up, just pull the fingers in. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.560 I don't know what we're just have it, have a look, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:06.240 you know, don't lose the pinkies or whatever, and go 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.319 from there, never concerned. If it was I thought that 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.080 it was going to go up, I wouldn't be walking up, 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.760 simple as that. And if I was going to make 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:15.920 a move, I have comms with the other guys back, 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:17.679 even though I may be a sergeant and I can 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:19.839 see your sergeant at the time. I come up with 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.640 a plane and say, guys, can we do this better 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.800 than what I've just come up with? And sometimes they 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.120 come up with another plan which I hadn't even thought of, 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.480 and we'd go down that direction. That's the type of 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.200 person we look for. It doesn't matter what rank. You're 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.600 a team. You're looking after each other and someone comes up, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:35.959 so could we do it this way? And go why 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.000 didn't I think of that? Yeah? It makes sense. It 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:38.480 goes from. 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:43.560 There without giving away any methodology, just for the lame 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:45.880 and how do you diffuse a bomb? When there's a 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.600 bomb there? What's the processes to diffuse it? 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.200 With the robots? Basically, it just makes common sense these 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.760 days that when you get to a location, you're not 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:57.880 going to walk up and have a look. You can 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.280 be sure that the police that are on site looks 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.200 So we did questioning first. Then we'll send a robot up. 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.240 The robot can go up and have a look, and 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.040 sometimes with the attachments on a robot, the actual robot 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.840 can actually open it for ourselves and we can have 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.000 a good look at what we're dealing with. If not, 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.600 we can use diagnostics equipment, extra equipment, and we've all 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.880 fairly experienced in reading what X rays are and what 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.240 we're looking for. I won't go through the various components, 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.880 but what we're looking for, and sometimes we can say, no, 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.360 it's not a device, it's just a mistake someone's done, 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.000 a delivery of whatever. If we're really concerned about it, 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.600 we won't get up there to cut it open, or 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.600 basically we'll use what we call a disruptor, which is 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.640 like a counter charge. We'll get rid of it that way. 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.920 Then the detectives can gather all the evidence. Forensic arson squad, 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.680 we'll gather all the evidence that's remaining. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.960 The world of bombs just by the nature of them too, 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.320 Like you can walk up there, and you're saying you 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.280 wouldn't walk up there if you thought there was concerns. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.680 But there's so many duvious ways bombs can be activated 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.840 and what bombs are used for. And yeah, we just 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.960 look at today's day and age. It doesn't surprise when 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.840 bombs go off left, right and center, and it can 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:14.760 be such a powerful tool. It's constantly evolving. I would imagine. Yeah, 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.680 you'd be learning things from something that's happened overseas. You 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.760 take on board, Okay, this situation happened. We've got to 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:22.280 look out for. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.640 That now, liaison with groups overseas and certainly in the State. 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.960 We do case histories and things like that, how they 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.520 approached a particular device. You know, it's getting always getting 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.920 that information a lot on the internet. You know, a 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:37.640 lot of the stories are on the internet. We read 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.880 what's happened overseas. You know, there's a lot of mistakes 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.240 that the made overseas too. I'm sure it's mistakes made 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.960 in Australia, but yeah, you just can't afford to make 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:46.600 that mistake. 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:50.200 No, Well, you saw I think you saw the consequences 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.120 of someone wearing a bombsuit where the bomb went off 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.160 and it wasn't too pretty. 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.720 No, it wasn't. It's probably it would be one. Probably 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.080 one of the largest bombs was not the bomb suit 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.680 side of it, but that severa gone off in Australia 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.920 that probably no one heard about it. There's a township 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.680 in Victory called daryn Allam and we had a person 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.920 called Glen Sanders and he had mental health issues again 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.920 drug effect, had probably been on the marijuana. Now he's 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.160 on ice, very paranoid for whatever reason, he got things 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.840 rolling and he'd been wearing a suicide vest explosive best 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.320 probably for a year that some people knew about and 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.040 thought it was just a joke. Don't worry about it's 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:33.520 not real anyway. He had a property at Darren Allam 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.800 and his property was one hundred acres on the Helmston Highway, 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.080 at least another eighty acres on the other side of 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.640 the highway. He was visiting his mum in Balarat Hospital 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.680 and prior to that, the day before it had someone 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.520 come over to his farm and help him in the 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.960 mechanic shed and he had an inspection pick where you 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:53.640 get under the vegle and you have look what's going 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.440 on underneath, and he had this plumber friend come over 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:58.600 and he said, I had to get out and some tools. 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.600 So he got out a gate on the inspection pit 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:03.840 and then got a whole od of gas bottles LPG 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.320 gas wetson opened it up and the guy couldn't get out, 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.720 and he just let him walk away and left him anyway, 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:12.680 His plumber mate took me about half an hour to 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.000 get out, and he got out and then confronted Glenn 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:16.919 what's going on, and Glenn showed him his best he 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:18.920 was wearing and sort of brushed him down, said sorry 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.040 about all that. So it sort of triggered the game, 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.720 I think to get the police involved. So then the 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.240 investigators were notified, and then the next day we were 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.400 notified and we're on our way and he had gone 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.920 to ballaratte Hospital where his mum was in the hospital. 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.159 She had cancer at the time, so he is visiting. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.240 So we had this person now walking around in Ballerrette 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:41.280 Hospital with a possible explosive suitside vest on. So naturally 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.040 the SOG theyre coming out formulating a plan. I've got 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.520 the bomb side of it. I've got the robots fready, 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:48.359 they're in the truck. We haven't got him out. We 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.680 haven't been compromised during like that. I've got the suit 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:52.440 laying out on the floor of one of the trucks 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.720 for to put someone on. What are the sag you're 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.160 going to do? The investigated and this was not unusual 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.240 for his normal habit to visit his mum, so they 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.240 let it run and he would have been notified that 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.240 he had seen his brother he hadn't seen for some 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.720 time the day before also, and he showed him this vest, 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.440 and he had buttons on each shoulder and a button 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.200 on his chest, and that was if the police should 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.000 arrest him, he could just use his head to push 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:19.760 one of the buttons or push the button on his 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.040 chest and things would go off. This is his interpretation. 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.800 So he ended up backing his property at durren Ellum. Basically, 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.720 the police arrived here, sog Wright in the armored vehicle 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.880 went up. They triggered the warning alarms on his driveway. 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.199 Thatt senses in the trees, so they he knew they 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.600 were coming. And it's about nine o'clock at night, freezing 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.600 cold up there, and he came out and he had 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.520 a sort of shirt on, showed him the vest sort 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.639 of disappeared back inside, came back a minute later, and 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.960 the negotiations went on for three hours and he was 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.400 in and out. He must have been freezing. He didn't 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:55.320 ask about the time, probably asked how long have it 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.119 been here? Maybe two or three times. I did a 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.520 delivery of meals to all the out accordance. I wasn't 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.439 sog now, but they knew that I could deliver the 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:07.119 meals and stuff like that through my experience, and I 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.040 could see him standing in the driveway and all that 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.320 kind of stuff talking through the negotiators. In the end, 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.560 I closed our guys down and said, we'll go find 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.320 some accommodation. We're not going to search a house for 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.600 exposers at night just doesn't make sense, dangerous dark. You 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.320 want to use daylight. So basically we found a local 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.320 motel some I think Morton Lake, some distance away. About 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:32.679 caught the five five o'clock in the morning. I'll get 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.680 a phone. My phone goes and senior sergeant says, I 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.720