WEBVTT - Hedley Thomas’ new podcast: Sick To Death 

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Hi, It's Claire Harvey from The Australian. I'm jumping into

0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.040
<v Speaker 1>the feed to let you know there's a new Headley

0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:09.039
<v Speaker 1>Thomas show live right now on Apple Podcasts and The Australian.

0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:11.959
<v Speaker 1>It's called Sick to Death and it's the true story

0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.840
<v Speaker 1>of Australia's own so called doc to Death. Headley and

0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.800
<v Speaker 1>I chatted about it on our daily news podcast, The Front.

0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.759
<v Speaker 1>We're going to play that conversation for you and to

0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.440
<v Speaker 1>listen to Sick to Death, go to Sick to Death

0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:28.920
<v Speaker 1>podcast dot com or search Sick to Death in Apple Podcasts.

0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Are subscribers here episodes first. You can sign up today

0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.200
<v Speaker 1>or link your existing The Australian subscription within Apple Podcasts

0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.320
<v Speaker 1>to start listening right now. Here's my conversation with Headley,

0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:52.680
<v Speaker 1>Australia's favorite podcaster. The Australian's own national chief correspondent, Headley

0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Thomas is back on the air today with Sick to Death,

0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.520
<v Speaker 1>an exploration of one of the most remarkable stories of

0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.720
<v Speaker 1>the sense how a surgeon was implicated in the death

0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.480
<v Speaker 1>and serious injury of scores of patients and earned himself

0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:12.560
<v Speaker 1>the nickname DoD to Death. Today, the Australians bringing Headley's

0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.440
<v Speaker 1>book by the same name to life with a gripping

0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.600
<v Speaker 1>piece of audio storytelling.

0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:20.520
<v Speaker 2>My name is Headley Thomas.

0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:25.840
<v Speaker 3>In two thousand and five, my reporting exposed shocking medical

0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.520
<v Speaker 3>negligence at the heart of a major healthcare system. An

0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:34.000
<v Speaker 3>overseas trained surgeon who was nicknamed docor Death by the nurses,

0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:40.800
<v Speaker 3>doctors and hospital administrators left patients mutilated, incapacitated, even dead.

0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.319
<v Speaker 3>Sick to Death is based on my book of the

0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.240
<v Speaker 3>same name, and it's the true story of doctor Jan

0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.720
<v Speaker 3>Patel's lies and manipulation and the herculean effort it took

0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:57.400
<v Speaker 3>to finally stop him.

0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Indian born American surgeon jay and Patel was director of

0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.120
<v Speaker 1>surgery at the Bunderberg Base Hospital between two thousand and

0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:09.040
<v Speaker 1>three and two thousand and five. The reporting of Headley Thomas,

0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:13.200
<v Speaker 1>plus the courage of whistleblowing nurse Tony Hoffman and crusading

0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:18.320
<v Speaker 1>local MP rob Messenger, brought Patel's misconduct to light. A

0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Commission of inquiry in November two thousand and five found

0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.800
<v Speaker 1>thirteen patients died because of his negligence and many more

0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:27.320
<v Speaker 1>suffered complications.

0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.760
<v Speaker 4>The United States Marshals collected the doctor from a Portland

0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.640
<v Speaker 4>prison on Wednesday.

0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Morning, they took him to Los Angeles. Pattel was extradited

0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.520
<v Speaker 1>from the US to Australia to face trial, and was

0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:43.160
<v Speaker 1>convicted and jailed in Queensland in twenty ten on three

0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.680
<v Speaker 1>counts of manslaughter and one of grievous bodily harm that

0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:51.440
<v Speaker 1>related to surgeries on four patients. The convictions were quashed

0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.880
<v Speaker 1>on appeal in twenty twelve after the High Court ruled

0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:59.520
<v Speaker 1>he'd suffered a miscarriage of justice, triggering his release from prison.

0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.680
<v Speaker 4>The sixty two year old was released from jail last

0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.720
<v Speaker 4>Friday after the High Court found a gross miscarriage of

0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.960
<v Speaker 4>justice occurred during his trial in twenty ten.

0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:13.720
<v Speaker 5>In the trial, allegations were made not only about my

0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.919
<v Speaker 5>competence as a doctor, were also going to the root

0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.519
<v Speaker 5>of my character and my descency as a human being.

0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.280
<v Speaker 1>After two failed retrials, one of which resulted in a

0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:31.320
<v Speaker 1>manslaughter acquittal, Queensland prosecutors dropped all criminal medical negligence charges

0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.360
<v Speaker 1>against Pateel in twenty thirteen, and he pleaded guilty to

0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:40.240
<v Speaker 1>four counts of fraud. He admitted lying to Queensland authorities

0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.480
<v Speaker 1>by hiding his American disciplinary history to get the Bunderberg

0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.160
<v Speaker 1>job and was given a two year suspended prison sentence.

0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:50.880
<v Speaker 1>He flew out of Australia the following day.

0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:57.120
<v Speaker 5>AM long and very difficult journey. I'm pleased that you saw,

0:03:57.520 --> 0:03:59.520
<v Speaker 5>and I'll be going back to my life and my word.

0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.080
<v Speaker 1>In twenty fifteen, a Queensland tribunal ordered Patel never be

0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:15.480
<v Speaker 1>registered in a medical profession in Australia again. And now

0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:20.120
<v Speaker 1>we've found him in Portland, Oregon, where Patel now lives.

0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.080
<v Speaker 2>My name is Ellie Dudley.

0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm a Patel was out for a walk when he

0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.240
<v Speaker 1>was approached by our reporter Ellie Dudley and our videographer

0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Quint Brewer. I'd really love to sit down and interview

0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.159
<v Speaker 1>you and chat about the events in Bunderberg in the

0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:34.800
<v Speaker 1>early two.

0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:38.919
<v Speaker 5>Thousand Agoah completely forgot about it and I'm beyond that.

0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I would really love to.

0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Sit down with you as has done this history.

0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.040
<v Speaker 4>And hear about your what you've got to say about

0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.600
<v Speaker 4>what happened. You've got nothing to say.

0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.960
<v Speaker 5>No, no, no, I don't react to stupid criticism, So

0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:54.560
<v Speaker 5>I'm on my life.

0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:55.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm fine.

0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:58.360
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Do you think you were treated poorly or.

0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:03.159
<v Speaker 5>Don don't worry about it.

0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Helly, what was your response to hearing that from Jan

0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.000
<v Speaker 1>pattel Well.

0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.480
<v Speaker 3>I think he was trying to put a brave face

0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:17.200
<v Speaker 3>on what must have been one of the most incredibly

0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:22.640
<v Speaker 3>painful chapters in his life. A man with an oversized ego,

0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:28.760
<v Speaker 3>very bombastic and confident and manipulative and dishonest surgeon who

0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:33.039
<v Speaker 3>came to Australia having lied about his background in the

0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:39.200
<v Speaker 3>United States, having lied about the negligence and the investigations

0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.480
<v Speaker 3>that led to him being very severely disciplined and barred

0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.400
<v Speaker 3>from practicing the surgery that he then decided that he

0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.680
<v Speaker 3>would practice in Australia in a public hospital when he

0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.920
<v Speaker 3>was welcomed with open arms, And when he said that,

0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:58.120
<v Speaker 3>when he said he'd forgotten, well do we ever forget

0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.799
<v Speaker 3>something like that? Imagine his life was upended, the lives

0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.400
<v Speaker 3>of many other people had been ended by his surgery,

0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.480
<v Speaker 3>and he went to jail, he served time behind bars.

0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.359
<v Speaker 3>So I don't think he was being truthful when he

0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:14.760
<v Speaker 3>said he had forgotten about it.

0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.440
<v Speaker 1>This story was absolutely enormous. It went around the world,

0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.599
<v Speaker 1>and of course it captivated Australians and I think it

0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:29.800
<v Speaker 1>shook some of our faith in the health system that

0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:30.919
<v Speaker 1>we do like to trust.

0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.080
<v Speaker 2>But your work at.

0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.960
<v Speaker 1>The Brisbane Career Mail at the time started, like a

0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.839
<v Speaker 1>lot of stories do, with something very simple at Google search.

0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:41.919
<v Speaker 1>Tell me about the genesis of the story and what

0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:42.560
<v Speaker 1>did you google?

0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, back then, Claire, it was April two thousand

0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:50.040
<v Speaker 3>and five and smartphones were something you know, I don't

0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.520
<v Speaker 3>think we actually knew of if we used mobile phones, sure,

0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:59.400
<v Speaker 3>but they didn't have the capacity for Internet and downloads a.

0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.599
<v Speaker 2>Big data file. So I had been.

0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.880
<v Speaker 3>In Bunderberg, this regional city short flight from Brisbane. I'd

0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:10.400
<v Speaker 3>gone up there to investigate the concerns of a nurse

0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.360
<v Speaker 3>who had been in touch with me, Tony Hoffman. This

0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:17.160
<v Speaker 3>nurse had told me about a surgeon that she said

0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:19.680
<v Speaker 3>was dangerous, was killing patients.

0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Heddley met other nurses, including Karen Jenner, who told him,

0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.480
<v Speaker 1>of course, doctor Bateell didn't become a bad surgeon overnight.

0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:33.400
<v Speaker 3>I asked her what do you mean by that, and

0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:35.840
<v Speaker 3>she said, well, you know, he's in his fifties, he's

0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.080
<v Speaker 3>been practicing surgery for a long time.

0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.040
<v Speaker 2>He didn't become this bad overnight.

0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.840
<v Speaker 3>And I said, in front of Tony and Karen and

0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.680
<v Speaker 3>the other nurses who had taken a big risk after

0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.320
<v Speaker 3>their shifts to come and talk to me, said, so,

0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:55.480
<v Speaker 3>do you mean that where he's practiced previously, there's probably

0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:59.520
<v Speaker 3>going to be similar issues. There'll be a trail of problems,

0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:05.800
<v Speaker 3>badly damaged patients where he's previously worked. And they all said, yeah, absolutely,

0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.200
<v Speaker 3>that's right, that's what they'll be. And I couldn't sleep

0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:14.320
<v Speaker 3>that night in this little budget motel in Bunderberg because

0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:19.280
<v Speaker 3>I kept thinking about that comment and what it possibly meant.

0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.720
<v Speaker 3>And the next day I flew back to Brisbane and

0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:25.920
<v Speaker 3>as I said, we didn't have smartphones, so I had

0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:26.320
<v Speaker 3>to go.

0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.280
<v Speaker 2>Back to my desk in the newspaper building. I wanted

0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:29.600
<v Speaker 2>to go.

0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.520
<v Speaker 3>Straight home, it had been a difficult assignment, but instead

0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:37.520
<v Speaker 3>I went to my desk to perform that online check.

0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.599
<v Speaker 2>It was a Google search. I literally googled Dr J.

0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:46.840
<v Speaker 3>Patel and disciplinary history or words to that effect, and

0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:52.640
<v Speaker 3>a PDF with the details of Dr Patel's disciplinary record

0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:56.720
<v Speaker 3>and the findings against him in Portland, in the United

0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:03.280
<v Speaker 3>States and in New York State suddenly appeared and I realized,

0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.600
<v Speaker 3>holy crap. And that day, well, that night, we scrambled

0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.800
<v Speaker 3>to remake the front page and write a feature article

0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.559
<v Speaker 3>about it with the headline why.

0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:14.199
<v Speaker 2>Didn't they check?

0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.559
<v Speaker 1>You went on to win the Gold Walkley twice, Australia's

0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.440
<v Speaker 1>highest honor for journalism. You're one of the world's most

0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:32.240
<v Speaker 1>respected investigative journals. Did that experience of googling something that

0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I think as a journalist you might have thought, of

0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:36.560
<v Speaker 1>course they would have checked that. Of course people would

0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.640
<v Speaker 1>have checked. That teach you something about asking those basic

0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.200
<v Speaker 1>questions that you might assume have already been answered.

0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.400
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, I mean if I as a journalist. Two years

0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:52.439
<v Speaker 3>after Patel's employment at Bunderberg Hospital, two years in which

0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:56.720
<v Speaker 3>he's been the subject of internal complaints, there were even

0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:01.840
<v Speaker 3>issues raised in the State parliament. First person to discover

0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.000
<v Speaker 3>that he's got this terrible record in the United States,

0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.240
<v Speaker 3>which meant that he shouldn't have been employed to prepare

0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.680
<v Speaker 3>a cut finger, let alone to sophagectamies and other very

0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:18.400
<v Speaker 3>serious operations. It just underlines why journalism can make such

0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.280
<v Speaker 3>a powerful difference. We need to come along and keep

0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.520
<v Speaker 3>doing those and asking questions.

0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Coming up. The whistleblower who worried Headley would think she

0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:44.360
<v Speaker 1>was crazy, she.

0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.040
<v Speaker 4>Became known as the whistleblower. But for the people of

0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:51.560
<v Speaker 4>Bundenberg and Queensland, Tony Hoffman risked everything to save their lives.

0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.200
<v Speaker 4>A nurse in the local hospital, Tony stood alone against

0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.200
<v Speaker 4>doctor Bottel, a senior surgeon who she believed responsible for

0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.000
<v Speaker 4>the deaths of pace. She fought hard to be heard.

0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Something that's a characteristic of your journalism is forming relationships

0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:10.280
<v Speaker 1>of deep trust and friendships really with whistleblowers and sources.

0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.560
<v Speaker 1>In this case, it's Tony Hoffman, the nurse who you

0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.319
<v Speaker 1>spoke about, who's carried a very heavy burden from being

0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.880
<v Speaker 1>the person who blew the whistle on Jan Betel. You've

0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.320
<v Speaker 1>done a lovely interview with Tony as part of this

0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.920
<v Speaker 1>series where she talks about your first face to face

0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.839
<v Speaker 1>meeting where she was very emotional. You know, she was

0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:33.480
<v Speaker 1>very worried, she was very afraid, but she was trying

0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.400
<v Speaker 1>to get you to trust her and to believe it

0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.080
<v Speaker 1>even though she was very upset, she was telling the truth.

0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.840
<v Speaker 6>I mean, I was frightened. I was living on adenaline.

0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.840
<v Speaker 6>I was talking really fast. I was so scared. I

0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:50.040
<v Speaker 6>was crying all the time. So I was emotionally distraught.

0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:54.880
<v Speaker 6>So I was presenting myself like that, So it's hard

0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:59.920
<v Speaker 6>for people to understand that you can still be credible

0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.599
<v Speaker 6>but be emotional.

0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.080
<v Speaker 1>That's a really interesting dynamic, isn't it the journal who

0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.679
<v Speaker 1>needs to be able to trust your sources. But often

0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.520
<v Speaker 1>people who blow the whistle are, because of the trauma

0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:18.079
<v Speaker 1>of doing that, very emotional. They seem that they might

0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.800
<v Speaker 1>not be credible. Did you know from the start that

0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:21.720
<v Speaker 1>you could trust Tony?

0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.880
<v Speaker 3>I had a gut feeling that I could trust Tony,

0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.600
<v Speaker 3>but we were wary of each other. And often that's

0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.760
<v Speaker 3>the start of a relationship with your source or whistle

0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:37.040
<v Speaker 3>blowing contact. You're really trying to work out what the

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:41.840
<v Speaker 3>potential weaknesses are and whether the person looks like they've

0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.280
<v Speaker 3>lost their marbles because of the fact they've been trying

0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.800
<v Speaker 3>to blow the whistle about something of great importance and

0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.080
<v Speaker 3>public interest for a long time and no one's listening,

0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.280
<v Speaker 3>or whether they've lost their marbles and they're just making

0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.560
<v Speaker 3>stuff up. With Tony Hoffman, I believed her because I

0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.520
<v Speaker 3>had myself done quite a lot of reporting before meeting

0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:08.440
<v Speaker 3>Tony about Queensland Health, and I was aware of the

0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 3>incredibly deceptive and downright dishonest conduct of senior people in

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Queensland Health in covering up big problems. I'd also done

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:27.200
<v Speaker 3>a lot of reporting on the challenges facing patients and

0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:32.839
<v Speaker 3>health administrators when it came to overseas trained doctors. Australia

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.960
<v Speaker 3>had and still has a great shortage of doctors, so

0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:40.199
<v Speaker 3>we were importing doctors from overseas. We needed them, particularly

0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.880
<v Speaker 3>in areas of need, rural and regional areas, and Queensland

0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.520
<v Speaker 3>needed them more than anywhere at that time, but we

0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:52.120
<v Speaker 3>were not properly vetting the doctors. And I had done

0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:56.199
<v Speaker 3>a series of stories back in that period, shortly before

0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.839
<v Speaker 3>I broke the Betel story, and that series focused on

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:06.320
<v Speaker 3>how overseas trained doctors without proper credentials, who hadn't been

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.400
<v Speaker 3>checked out thoroughly and had been given jobs of responsibility,

0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.320
<v Speaker 3>had caused a lot of harm and it was being

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.680
<v Speaker 3>swept under the rug. And I remember when I started

0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:21.760
<v Speaker 3>writing those stories and asking questions to develop those stories,

0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.880
<v Speaker 3>getting some raised eyebrows from people and having to sort

0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 3>of answer their questions about whether this was some kind

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.640
<v Speaker 3>of racist line and reporting where we were attacking the

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:41.600
<v Speaker 3>overseas trained doctors, many of whom were from countries like India,

0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.920
<v Speaker 3>and Pakistan and so on, because they weren't white and

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 3>nothing could be further from the truth. It was about

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 3>upholding standards of care and ensuring that the Australian public

0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.880
<v Speaker 3>was protected. But what we discovered as a result of

0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 3>the inquiries that were held after the Hell scandal really

0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.920
<v Speaker 3>blew up was that in Queensland we were not just

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 3>getting doctors from overseas who were incompetent. We were employing

0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.240
<v Speaker 3>people who pretended to be doctors, one of whom was

0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 3>a Russian fellow who had no experience in psychiatry and

0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 3>had been employed as a psychiatric registrar and had done

0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 3>a lot of damage to the patients by telling them

0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 3>all they didn't need their medication. And he got away

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.840
<v Speaker 3>with this for a long time, and a number of

0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 3>psychiatrists who assessed him said, oh, we.

0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Thought it was pretty good. It'd never been to medical school.

0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.400
<v Speaker 1>We've worked together at The Australian for years now and

0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.360
<v Speaker 1>we've made quite a few of your big investigations. We

0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 1>always seem to do it the hard way. I think

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.960
<v Speaker 1>that's you, that's your fault. And in this one, we've

0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 1>brought this story to life with nearly two hundred voice actors,

0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.280
<v Speaker 1>a beautiful production led by our audio lead Jasper Leak

0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 1>and supported by producers Kristin Amyot, Stephanie Coombs and leott Semaglue.

0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 1>It sounds absolutely beautiful. You and I have talked a

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 1>lot over the years about why audio is a great

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 1>way to tell big stories like these, long stories like this.

0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.080
<v Speaker 1>What do you think it is about sick to death

0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.760
<v Speaker 1>that lends itself to a listen rather than a read.

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:27.120
<v Speaker 3>It's a chilling story, and there's intimacy and partnership, you know,

0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.080
<v Speaker 3>for a journalist who back in two thousand and five,

0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.760
<v Speaker 3>I was thirty eight, I was probably you know, well

0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:39.000
<v Speaker 3>cynical by then, but I wasn't prepared for what was

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.320
<v Speaker 3>uncovered in that saga.

0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 2>We were able to lift.

0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:48.600
<v Speaker 3>The lid on that as a result of this crisis

0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:54.120
<v Speaker 3>surrounding a doctor Patel in a regional hospital, which just

0:16:54.640 --> 0:17:01.960
<v Speaker 3>then widened into a massive and I think veryortan't investigation

0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.800
<v Speaker 3>of the entire health system, and it showed what can

0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:12.040
<v Speaker 3>be made possible when you start with something small and

0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.639
<v Speaker 3>the damage and the ripples go out. And these lessons

0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.919
<v Speaker 3>are still around today, Claire. Some things have changed for

0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.320
<v Speaker 3>the better. Some things haven't and we need to be

0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:26.800
<v Speaker 3>constantly reminded of this. I am in no doubt that

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:33.840
<v Speaker 3>across Australia today there will be doctors, surgeons and people

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:38.439
<v Speaker 3>pretending to be doctors who shouldn't be there, who are

0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 3>incompetent or fraudulent, who are just impostors, and we have

0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:45.239
<v Speaker 3>to be always vigilant about that.

0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Ketley Thomas is the Australian's National Chief correspondent and his

0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.400
<v Speaker 1>investigation Sick to Death is available now at Sick todethpodcast

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 1>dot com, in Apple podcasts and in the Australians Mobile

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:13.919
<v Speaker 1>app