Speaker 1: I get a team. It's David Gillespie, Tiffany and Cook.
Speaker 1: It's me, Fatty Harps. It's the Youth Project, he high Harps.
Speaker 1: You've just been complimented by the great man who likes
Speaker 1: you in your glasses? Are you thirty percent smarter with
Speaker 1: those on?
Speaker 2: I definitely, I definitely feel thirty percent smarter, And I'm
Speaker 2: just basking in the compliments.
Speaker 1: Are you long or short sighted or something else?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know, like middle mid range blurriness, that's what
Speaker 2: I get.
Speaker 1: Wow, So like if you're like sixty centimeters or thirty
Speaker 1: centimeters away from the screen, is it blurry?
Speaker 2: Nah? Further like a longer design. The only time I
Speaker 2: notice it is when I'm out, maybe at the gym
Speaker 2: or at an event, and I'm kind of interacting with
Speaker 2: people across the room and I'm like, I can't really
Speaker 2: see your face.
Speaker 3: Contact. That's a good get out of jail free card.
Speaker 3: That is nice.
Speaker 2: It's not nice because I feel like really isolated in
Speaker 2: those moments because I'm not sure if I'm in the.
Speaker 3: Room with people, you know, it's your ghosting. Excuse why'd
Speaker 3: you ghost me? Tiff I couldn't see you in my
Speaker 3: middle distance vision thing. Think you hear it was on
Speaker 3: the podcast.
Speaker 1: I think also it's got to do with how much
Speaker 1: light is in the room. Don't you like when it's daylight?
Speaker 1: It seems it's much like brighter daylight versus semi lit rooms.
Speaker 1: When it's when it's not great light, I find it
Speaker 1: really hard to see people.
Speaker 2: I don't like driving at night either. Might wear them
Speaker 2: at night, Probably should wear them at night.
Speaker 1: Probably should. You're probably probably breaking the law by not
Speaker 1: doing it. Hey you Giles boy? What's news?
Speaker 3: Yeah, all sorts of things. We're going to talk about
Speaker 3: gout today, aren't we just really change?
Speaker 1: I saw that, I saw your article and I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: that's a good old fashioned condition.
Speaker 3: Well, i'll tell you why I wrote about it, because
Speaker 3: I didn't put it in the article. But I like
Speaker 3: watching I think we've talked about this before, but I
Speaker 3: like watching that SPS show alone, which is basically, you know,
Speaker 3: people starving to death and who starves to death the
Speaker 3: last is the winner. And one of the blokes on that,
Speaker 3: I think, one of the blokes who's in the final
Speaker 3: four at the moment, had this really bad attack of
Speaker 3: gout and they were pointing out probably the reason is
Speaker 3: because he's been subsisting on eels, which is just about
Speaker 3: the only thing he can catch. And it reminded me
Speaker 3: about the story of gout and how it originally was,
Speaker 3: you know, a rich man's disease, and people who could
Speaker 3: afford access to eels and swans and things were the
Speaker 3: only people who got it.
Speaker 1: Ones.
Speaker 3: Oh, the Royal diet. You know, swans the protected species.
Speaker 3: Only kings can eat the swans in the UK.
Speaker 2: I thought it was too much beer.
Speaker 3: No, well, maybe a bit of alcohol is definitely implicated
Speaker 3: in it, but the big like, it's an interesting thing
Speaker 3: because it's been around since since we first started noticing
Speaker 3: things in medicine. The people have had this kind of
Speaker 3: acute attacks of arthritis. So it's not like normal arthritis
Speaker 3: where it sort of builds over time and just gets
Speaker 3: worse and worse and worse. Gout is something that you
Speaker 3: have acute attacks of and when you have the attack,
Speaker 3: it's unbelievably painful. So the fellow on the Loan Show
Speaker 3: who had it, he said it felt like someone had
Speaker 3: broken his ankle it and then he showed his foot
Speaker 3: and it was swollen up. You know, to sort of
Speaker 3: the width of his leg, you know, around his ankle
Speaker 3: and his foot, and it looked horrifically painful. And that's
Speaker 3: what gout's like, you know, for the curious amongst your listeners.
Speaker 3: I've actually put a photo of what it looks like
Speaker 3: in the article, so you just, I guess, warning if.
Speaker 1: You don't like warning, Robinson warning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so so gow. It's been around a while. It
Speaker 3: was noticed, yeah, pretty much by the earliest people who
Speaker 3: looked at medicine, even old Hippocrates and so on. Notice
Speaker 3: there was this thing. But the other thing he noticed
Speaker 3: was it affected only really two classes of people, men
Speaker 3: and women who had who had gone past menophorse, and
Speaker 3: in both cases only if they were particularly wealthy. So
Speaker 3: it seemed like a really weird disease. So there's this
Speaker 3: disease that can really give you extremely painful attacks in
Speaker 3: usually in your lower extremities, although sometimes in your hands
Speaker 3: as well, so in your ankles, your feet, your big toe,
Speaker 3: and so on, really really debilitating, but only seemed to
Speaker 3: affect rich people, and then only men or women who've
Speaker 3: gone past menopause. So it was a bit mysterious. But
Speaker 3: because it only really affected rich people, no one cared
Speaker 3: much because it wasn't a large percentage of the population,
Speaker 3: and even with the rich people, it was sort of
Speaker 3: felt like, well, they deserved what they got. It was
Speaker 3: pretty quickly diagnosed as being a result of an affluent lifestyle. Obviously,
Speaker 3: something about you know, the way those people were living
Speaker 3: was causing this thing, but they didn't really nail it
Speaker 3: down much more than that until I think it was
Speaker 3: about the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, mid eighteen hundreds when people
Speaker 3: started experimenting and seeing, well, you know, can we get
Speaker 3: to the bottom of this and the reason why they
Speaker 3: were starting to worry about it in the mid eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 3: starting to not just be a rich people disease. So
Speaker 3: nobody really much cared if King Henry the Eighth had gout.
Speaker 3: I guess he cared, and probably the people who were
Speaker 3: required to treat him cared, but no one else much
Speaker 3: cared that he had gout and he did so. But
Speaker 3: once it started to be a problem that affected a
Speaker 3: lot of people, which it really was starting to be
Speaker 3: by the eighteen fifties, people started looking at it and saying, well,
Speaker 3: what is this disease, what is causing this, and what
Speaker 3: exactly about rich people's lifestyles and now increasingly more and
Speaker 3: more of the middle class is causing this. So they
Speaker 3: went looking and fortunately the mid eighteen hundreds was sort
Speaker 3: of the dawn of medical science. They did things like experiments,
Speaker 3: and there was one particular chap by the name of
Speaker 3: Sir Alfred Bearing Garrett. It's a nice, nice set of
Speaker 3: names he's got there. He thought, I'll do some experiments
Speaker 3: here and see if I can figure it out. What
Speaker 3: he figured out was that there was a difference in
Speaker 3: the blood of people who had gout and people who
Speaker 3: didn't have gout, and he proved this using a piece
Speaker 3: of string. Surprisingly, so what he would do is put string,
Speaker 3: like just leave a piece of string in the blood
Speaker 3: plasma of people who had gout versus people who didn't.
Speaker 3: I don't know how it came up with the idea
Speaker 3: of a piece of string, but it was actually pretty
Speaker 3: clever because what happened with the people who had gout
Speaker 3: is that crystals formed on the piece of string, and
Speaker 3: what happened on people who didn't there's nothing. So the
Speaker 3: string just got bloody and wet, but there were no crystals.
Speaker 3: For me. He then analyzed, what are these crystals that
Speaker 3: are forming and found out that they came from some
Speaker 3: a chemical which by then they knew was in our
Speaker 3: bloodstream called uric acid. Now, uric acid is something that's
Speaker 3: produced as a normal part of being human and eliminated
Speaker 3: by the kidneys as a normal part of being human.
Speaker 3: But for some reason some people had a lot more
Speaker 3: of it in their bloodstream than others. So they said, well,
Speaker 3: what do we know about uric acid? Where does it
Speaker 3: come from? The answer was it comes from meat. So
Speaker 3: if you have a good, steady supply of access to
Speaker 3: meat and seafood, and particularly some of the more exotic
Speaker 3: seafoods like eels, then you would have a fair amount
Speaker 3: of something called purines in your diet, and purines are
Speaker 3: metabolized to uric acid. Now, as I say, if you've
Speaker 3: got a good function in kidneys and not overdoing it
Speaker 3: on the meat front, it probably didn't matter. But if
Speaker 3: you were King Henry the eighth and you know, sitting
Speaker 3: down to a feast every night and eating more meat
Speaker 3: than the average punter saw in a year, then you
Speaker 3: might be in a bit of trouble. So that helped
Speaker 3: to explain in one go, there you go, obvious answer
Speaker 3: this is why this thing was only really a disease
Speaker 3: of the rich, and you know, was starting to become
Speaker 3: more prevalent in society because access to meat was starting
Speaker 3: to be more of a thing by the mid eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 3: So four people prior to that really subsisted on vegetables.
Speaker 3: There were vegetarians without even trying to be, and probably
Speaker 3: didn't want to be, And so they were eating the
Speaker 3: vegetables because they didn't get access to meat. And the
Speaker 3: rich people were eating the meat because the last thing
Speaker 3: in the world they were going to do was eat vegetables.
Speaker 3: That was what poor people eat. So it's an interesting version,
Speaker 3: by the way, just sidetrack the interesting version about bread.
Speaker 3: So back those times, the rich people ate the white
Speaker 3: bread because that was the expensive to make bread to
Speaker 3: get that good, and the poor people ate the stuff
Speaker 3: that was full of grains and crap. And then you
Speaker 3: fast forward to today and it's completely inverted anyway, and.
Speaker 1: The one that's full of grains and crap is ten
Speaker 1: times is.
Speaker 3: Ten times the price of the white bread. That's right anyway,
Speaker 3: So they thought, okay, job done, We've solved gout, we
Speaker 3: know what causes it. Here we go, don't eat meat.
Speaker 3: They also found that alcohol did have an effect, and
Speaker 3: they also subsequently discovered that eating drinking alcohol out of
Speaker 3: lead crystal made it even worse because there was a
Speaker 3: different kind of type of gout that was associated with
Speaker 3: the lead poisoning in the crystal because it damage the kidneys,
Speaker 3: et cetera. Et cetera. Don't need to worry too much
Speaker 3: about that. They had it nailed perfect theory, one wrong,
Speaker 3: but we didn't figure it out for a good one
Speaker 3: hundred years, well, actually more like two hundred years after that.
Speaker 3: It's not that it was completely wrong, one hundred percent wrong.
Speaker 3: It was probably unfair. There is a way to produce
Speaker 3: excess uric acid by consuming too much meat. It's just
Speaker 3: that doctors running around in the nineteen sixties and nineties,
Speaker 3: seventies and ninety eighties and ninety nineties and telling people, well,
Speaker 3: the reason you're getting gout is because you're eating too
Speaker 3: much meat was just nonsense, because what was happening in
Speaker 3: those decades is gout was going from nothing very important
Speaker 3: at all that affected a few old, rich people to
Speaker 3: suddenly it's affecting very large percentage of the population. So
Speaker 3: if you look at some of the numbers in the UK.
Speaker 3: It went up sevenfold in fifty years from nineteen sixty,
Speaker 3: so nineteen sixty to twenty ten, sevenfold increase in gout.
Speaker 3: It is now ad epidemic proportions. It is the most
Speaker 3: common form of arthritis in Western society. It is growing
Speaker 3: extremely rapidly. So we're all having too many steak dians
Speaker 3: and lobster thermidors. No, so our access to meat, if anything,
Speaker 3: has declined in the last one hundred years, you know,
Speaker 3: because of the obsession about eating too much saturated fat
Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah blah. So we're eating a lot
Speaker 3: less red meat, a lot less things like lobster and frauns.
Speaker 3: It's on that are also sources of this. So how
Speaker 3: on earth would we be getting an epidemic if those
Speaker 3: things were the cause. Answer is, you know, when facts
Speaker 3: meat theory facts win and siders started looking at this
Speaker 3: in sort of around two thousand and seven, two thousand
Speaker 3: and six and discovered there was a much more interesting
Speaker 3: correlation in the data when they started looking closely at it,
Speaker 3: and that is it was a straight line between sugar
Speaker 3: and gout. Of course, the total or sugar consumption of
Speaker 3: the person exactly predicted their chance of having gout. And
Speaker 3: in fact, if you had if you compared men who
Speaker 3: So they first studied men because they're the important ones.
Speaker 1: And oken and authorized by David Gillespie.
Speaker 3: So forty six thousand men. They looked at the data
Speaker 3: on that had lifelong data from these forty six out
Speaker 3: they're all health professionals, so nurses and doctors, and found
Speaker 3: if you compared a bloke who was having two or
Speaker 3: more sugary drinks a day with a blow who was
Speaker 3: having one or less, he'd have an eighty five percent
Speaker 3: higher chance of having gout, so double the risk. In
Speaker 3: other words, just by doubling the amount of sugar you
Speaker 3: were consuming, and the trend stuck, you could predict exactly
Speaker 3: whether a person was likely to have gout or not,
Speaker 3: just by knowing how much sugar they were consuming. So
Speaker 3: there goes the old eating too much steak and lobster.
Speaker 3: And now we have the real culprit, which is sugar.
Speaker 3: Now at that point they hadn't identified the mechanism, but
Speaker 3: now we know a little bit more about sugar, it
Speaker 3: was pretty clear. So sugar is as we've talked about before,
Speaker 3: it's half fructose, half glucose, the fructose half of sugar
Speaker 3: gets metabolized by the liver essentially in such a fashion
Speaker 3: that it directly produces uric acid. So it's almost as
Speaker 3: if you said, you know, look, I just want to
Speaker 3: invent a chemical process that manufactures uric acid on demand.
Speaker 3: The answer would be consume a lot of fructose. Well,
Speaker 3: and that's what's going on. So we know that for
Speaker 3: absolute certain that's what's behind the massive growth in gout.
Speaker 3: It's why such more people in the population have it
Speaker 3: now than have ever had it before in humankind's history,
Speaker 3: and it's why it's gone from a large new relevant
Speaker 3: rich men's disease a few hundred years ago to affecting
Speaker 3: really large percentages of the population. Now, did you say,
Speaker 3: it's the fastest growing format, the most most prevalent form
Speaker 3: of arthritis in the population. So it is at epidemic
Speaker 3: proportions and still accelerating. So, by the way, in that
Speaker 3: same study, they also just to make sure it wasn't
Speaker 3: either know, the bobbles or whatever in the fizzy drinks
Speaker 3: causing this. Compared people who had diet drinks and they
Speaker 3: didn't have gout, zero chance of gout for them, They
Speaker 3: also compared people who had fruit juice instead of soft drink.
Speaker 3: They got gout because fruit juices, of course, So it's
Speaker 3: been definitively nail. It's not in doubt at all. The
Speaker 3: bizarre thing is that even to this day, I mean
Speaker 3: that study, massive landmark study was put out I think
Speaker 3: around two thousand and eight in the British Medical Journal.
Speaker 3: Even to this day you'll have people saying that their
Speaker 3: doctor told them that they've got gout because they're eating
Speaker 3: too much meat. And this is why I looked at
Speaker 3: it again, because that's exactly what the bloke on alone
Speaker 3: said and he was wondering, well, I haven't really been
Speaker 3: getting access to any stakes. Yeah, why is my gaup
Speaker 3: playing up because he's fifty days into starving to deat
Speaker 3: So I thought that was really interesting. I guess the
Speaker 3: takeaway from all of this is that doubt is a
Speaker 3: canary in the sense that it's the first thing to
Speaker 3: happen to you when you consume too much fructose, aside
Speaker 3: from getting fat. Oh, by the way, interesting story if
Speaker 3: you go back then and look at the earlier studies about.
Speaker 1: Not allowed us say that anymore, David, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: Allowed us say people get that.
Speaker 1: That's I'll be hearing from someone very soon.
Speaker 3: Under height, not overweight.
Speaker 1: There you go much better. Glad you tided that up.
Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, So if people get underhyight, if you
Speaker 3: go back and compare England in the mid eighteen hundreds
Speaker 3: and when they were looking at this and worrying about it,
Speaker 3: and look at the sugar consumption, and look at the
Speaker 3: incidents of gout, and compare England to France. Now, England
Speaker 3: had control of all of the colonies that were producing sugar,
Speaker 3: the Caribbean, et cetera, et cetera. They had a lot
Speaker 3: more sugar in their diet than the French did, who
Speaker 3: had no access to any of this. The French also
Speaker 3: had no gout. Yeah, so that's an interesting They didn't
Speaker 3: notice that at the time. But now that we know
Speaker 3: the answer, we can go back and look at some
Speaker 3: of that data. But the important thing from the perspective
Speaker 3: here is, I mean, yes, gout is horrible and painful,
Speaker 3: but it's not going to kill you. The important thing
Speaker 3: here is it's a warning if you if your body
Speaker 3: is in a position where it is producing too much
Speaker 3: uric acid by consuming fractos, then it is also destroying
Speaker 3: your liver. It is also destroying your kidney. It is
Speaker 3: also likely making you overweight, sorry, under.
Speaker 1: Height and much better.
Speaker 3: Yes, so that's the warning. You know, pay attention if
Speaker 3: you've got gout, because gout is not the real problem.
Speaker 3: It's just the symptom.
Speaker 1: Wow wow, And you think about like, isn't it interesting
Speaker 1: that And again this is not a slam on doctors,
Speaker 1: because there are great doctors and not so great doctors,
Speaker 1: but that there are probably still you know, doctors getting
Speaker 1: around and other medical professionals or health professionals telling people
Speaker 1: that that their gout is about excessive meat.
Speaker 3: Still, well, if they went to medical school before two
Speaker 3: thousand and eight, they wouldn't have learnt anything else. And
Speaker 3: if they haven't been keeping up with their eating and
Speaker 3: which most doctors don't have the time to do that,
Speaker 3: they're not going to hear a different story. So you know,
Speaker 3: if your doctor was trained before two thousand and eight,
Speaker 3: he thinks get out is caused by meat consumption. And
Speaker 3: I guess that leads us to the other question, which
Speaker 3: is the stopping eating sugar cure it? And the answer
Speaker 3: is yes, it does. But and this is always the
Speaker 3: butt with sugar. It depends how badly you've wrecked things
Speaker 3: in the meantime, So doubt causes damage to structures in
Speaker 3: tendon's muscles, et cetera, in the foot, if they've been
Speaker 3: irreparably damaged, then even though cutting back on the sugar, well,
Speaker 3: removing the sugar will certainly help and ensure that you
Speaker 3: are significantly reducing uric acid production, it isn't going to
Speaker 3: rep the damage for that something. You know, something else
Speaker 3: might be required, some other forms of medication, et cetera. So,
Speaker 3: and that's the answer you get in pretty much everything
Speaker 3: to do with sugar, which is will this cure my
Speaker 3: fati liver? Well, yes it will, but it depends how
Speaker 3: much damage has been done to the liver, like has
Speaker 3: scar tissued been created or not, Because stopping sugar will
Speaker 3: stop more being formed, but it's not going to fix
Speaker 3: the stuff that's already been scarred.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and I think it's still still people still
Speaker 4: hold like dried fruit and fruit juice up as healthy foods.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which they're not.
Speaker 1: My dad's a diabetic and you know, not a visit
Speaker 1: or two ago when I was up there, he is
Speaker 1: eating fruit. What are you doing? You know? Like that
Speaker 1: is just the worst thing that you can eat.
Speaker 3: Well, you go. Standard dietetic practice at the moment is
Speaker 3: still to give people fruit juice even though they're diabetic.
Speaker 3: So you go into a hospital ward where there are
Speaker 3: diabetic patients, they'll be being fed food that's you know,
Speaker 3: fruit juice and fruit and dried fruit. And I'm not
Speaker 3: saying exclusively that, but there's no account taken of the
Speaker 3: fact that the cause of this disease is over consumption
Speaker 3: of fractose. And that's a problem because, as I said,
Speaker 3: gout is at epidemic proportions. But it's just the effect
Speaker 3: we can see, you know, we can't see the kidney disease.
Speaker 3: We can't see the fatty liver disease until it gets
Speaker 3: to a point where it is really really dangerous.
Speaker 1: Have you ever I'm going to digress for a moment,
Speaker 1: But I've watched alone, like the American version a bit.
Speaker 1: I think I watched some of the Swedish version last week,
Speaker 1: some of the Australian I just look at those people.
Speaker 1: I feel like, whatever it is that they might win,
Speaker 1: it's not worth it. They're just killing their health.
Speaker 3: It's just I'm like, but I know some of them
Speaker 3: are losing a fair bit of Wait, you know, it
Speaker 3: could be a fairly extreme diet.
Speaker 1: Starting point. I guess if you go in there and
Speaker 1: you're in relatively good shape, as.
Speaker 3: In oh no, then you toast.
Speaker 1: No, you're fucked, You're fucked. I was talking to well,
Speaker 1: Tiff and I were talking to Tammy van Whistler. You
Speaker 1: may not know who she is, but she's arguably well,
Speaker 1: she's definitely one of Australia's best ever ultra endurance swimmers.
Speaker 1: She swam, you know, she's won a million things and
Speaker 1: world records and she swum, among other things, she swum lockness.
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't believe this, but this was recorded. So
Speaker 1: in a nine hour and six minute swim she lost
Speaker 1: ten kilograms swimming in lockness.
Speaker 3: Well, it is cold, it is like, so.
Speaker 1: That was the coldest swim she's ever done. And I'm
Speaker 1: not lying, am I? Tif ten K's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And the is a zempi.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, zeb's gone. Well at the moment, isn't
Speaker 1: it no better there at all?
Speaker 3: It'll well except for the blindness thing, and yeah, but
Speaker 3: you know, we can probably talk about that another time.
Speaker 3: But look, the problem with the way we work as
Speaker 3: a society here. I'm just getting my just pulling my
Speaker 3: soap box out here to get here.
Speaker 1: Just stand right up and talk up. Yep.
Speaker 3: That's is that we are always looking for the quick fix,
Speaker 3: and a zeenpeic provides the quick fix. And there's nothing
Speaker 3: quick or painless about swimming. How far did you say
Speaker 3: you sweb ten k's no, it's actually forty k's forty
Speaker 3: ks to lose.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's yeah, And no one's interested in that, And
Speaker 3: even less people are interested in not eating sugar for
Speaker 3: the rest of their lives, which to a lot of
Speaker 3: people sounds like a death sentence because sugar's addict and
Speaker 3: people if you say to people, I want you to
Speaker 3: stop doing something that you're addicted to for the rest
Speaker 3: of your life, most people will say sure, I could
Speaker 3: do that, and then find they can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well yeah, And I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: things that would be good for us, would be optimal
Speaker 1: for our health, are hard, and people don't like hard
Speaker 1: like people like easy, people like quick fixes, people like convenient.
Speaker 3: You know, this is not the interesting thing about the
Speaker 3: sugar thing. There's nothing easy about going to the gym
Speaker 3: for the rest of your life. But with the sugar thing,
Speaker 3: there is actually once you break the addiction, it is
Speaker 3: deadly easy to do. You don't have to do anything,
Speaker 3: You just have to not eat anything that tastes sweet
Speaker 3: and people. The only reason people find that hard is
Speaker 3: because it is addictive. But like any addictive substance, once
Speaker 3: you get through that. And I think I wrote an
Speaker 3: article of few weeks ago that we haven't talked about
Speaker 3: at all, but you wanted to talk about last time,
Speaker 3: about what happens in your brain and how do you
Speaker 3: change that when you quit?
Speaker 1: Well maybe it we'll do that next week. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: was just reminded of the very current Australian sprint champion Gout. Gout.
Speaker 1: He's getting good pun intended, pun intended, always good chatting
Speaker 1: to you? How do you reckon? You'd go on a
Speaker 1: loan mate? Would you? How are your survival skills?
Speaker 3: I think i'd probably last or ten fifteen minutes?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't see the point of it honestly, other
Speaker 3: than to entertain people on television.
Speaker 1: To undergrand that's the point or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But to do that, you've got to be prepared
Speaker 3: to not eat what do they normally take sixty seventy
Speaker 3: days it and survive in a subsistence environment. And the
Speaker 3: bit that I always find ironic is they usually chuck
Speaker 3: a few vegetarians in there as well, who instantly ceased
Speaker 3: becoming being vegetarians when it gets down to I've just
Speaker 3: got to eat, And I guess from that perspective, it's
Speaker 3: a it's an interesting insight into how man behaves when
Speaker 3: there really are no choices and you really just need
Speaker 3: calories the fastest way you can get them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I think when it comes
Speaker 1: down to you know, life and death, people like you know,
Speaker 1: I know that this is this is my ethical kind
Speaker 1: of you know, value system. But fuck, I'm hungry. Give
Speaker 1: me a fish.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you haven't eaten for six days and you
Speaker 3: catch a fish, you're suddenly not so worried about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, sorry mate, but I'm going to hitch on
Speaker 1: the head nature.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we've just once again offended a fair chunk
Speaker 3: of your audience, who probably are vegetarian. But that's the way.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think people are going to eat
Speaker 1: whatever they're going to eat if it's that's right, you know,
Speaker 1: it just happens. Make we appreciate you. Thank you as always. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll see you in a.
Speaker 3: Week, yeah, well or two weeks, even a week. You're
Speaker 3: not paying me enough to come back in a week.
Speaker 1: We'll see you. I want to talk to you off
Speaker 1: there for a moment, but for now mate.
Speaker 3: Thanks, thank you,