1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,000
Speaker 1: Why women do fire differently and that's actually our superpower.

2
00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Sugar Mama's Fireplay, the podcast where we

3
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,000
Speaker 1: explore all things financial independence, early retirement and long term

4
00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,639
Speaker 1: financial freedom, and we do so with honesty, empathy, and

5
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,639
Speaker 1: hopefully a touch of elegance. Today, I am so excited

6
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,319
Speaker 1: to be joined by Michelle who's actually previously been on

7
00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,360
Speaker 1: my YouTube channel many many years ago. She's now a

8
00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,240
Speaker 1: self employed mother of two who, along with her husband,

9
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: has been building a life of freedom, purpose and balance

10
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 1: through the Fire movement, a really powerful lifestyle movement. Now,

11
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,720
Speaker 1: in this conversation that we're about to unpack, we're going

12
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,480
Speaker 1: to explore why women often approach fire, that is, financial independence,

13
00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 1: retire early differently from men, and actually how that difference

14
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,040
Speaker 1: can be a really powerful advantage. We're going to talk

15
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,040
Speaker 1: about the lifestyle design, parenting with purpose, money and marriage

16
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,120
Speaker 1: and how to build financial freedom with children actually in

17
00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,839
Speaker 1: the picture, not in spite of them. Whether you're starting

18
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,160
Speaker 1: from scratch or you're already on your way to fire.

19
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:09,440
Speaker 2: Shell story is going to.

20
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 1: Inspire you to think more intentionally about your own financial

21
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,119
Speaker 1: future and to help you realize you can absolutely build

22
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,959
Speaker 1: a life filled with meaning freedom, time, and.

23
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 2: Of course wealth. Good morning, Michelle.

24
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,640
Speaker 3: How are you, Hikennah, how are you? I'm really well. Thanks.

25
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,959
Speaker 1: Now I want to get straight into this. Can we

26
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,640
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning and start with your own

27
00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 1: fire story? Like, what was it that, initially, I guess

28
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: was a catalyst or inspired you and your husband, of

29
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 1: course to pursue financial independence and create an early retirement

30
00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 1: because you've been doing this for a long time, and

31
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: no one you would have been a bit of a pioneer,

32
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,000
Speaker 1: No one would have even heard of that concept, you know,

33
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:54,720
Speaker 1: ten years ago.

34
00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think for me it was just not

35
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,280
Speaker 3: wanting to sort of follow the status quo. I wasn't

36
00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,280
Speaker 3: happy in my work at the time in a full

37
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 3: time role, and I sort of knew there had to

38
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,240
Speaker 3: be a better way, or at least I hoped that

39
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,399
Speaker 3: there was. And when I found out that you could

40
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 3: replace your salary income with investment income by just being

41
00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,440
Speaker 3: proactive with your money earlier, that was a very appealing

42
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,680
Speaker 3: concept to me and my colleague who I worked with

43
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,880
Speaker 3: at this company that I wasn't very happy at and

44
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,480
Speaker 3: had been with for a long time, because they had

45
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,240
Speaker 3: a bit of a they called them the Golden Handcuffs.

46
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,200
Speaker 3: But I was a very early employee and it was

47
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,799
Speaker 3: a I had an eesop plan that was vesting over

48
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,360
Speaker 3: very unfavor very unfavorable to the employee timeline, so it

49
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,800
Speaker 3: was really drawn out. So I was kind of really

50
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 3: stuck at this company that I wasn't happy at. But

51
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,720
Speaker 3: I worked with this guy who's super clever, really smart,

52
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,600
Speaker 3: and he told me about the fire movement and it

53
00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 3: had really taken off in the States and it had

54
00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,959
Speaker 3: actually been pioneered by a guy called mister money Must

55
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,080
Speaker 3: and I was like, this is amazing and so transferable

56
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 3: to Australia and I need to start doing this. And

57
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 3: he was sort of doing it, but he was very

58
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,440
Speaker 3: quiet about it. He didn't really tell people. And he

59
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,040
Speaker 3: was saying to me that he'd been doing it for

60
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,360
Speaker 3: the last ten years and he was pretty much on

61
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,079
Speaker 3: track to go down to part time the next couple

62
00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,520
Speaker 3: of years if he wanted to. And he was in

63
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,720
Speaker 3: his late twenties at the time. So I just thought

64
00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,800
Speaker 3: that was incredible and I started from there. So that

65
00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,680
Speaker 3: really was where it all sort of began for me.

66
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 2: And what was the first investment that you made?

67
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:42,280
Speaker 3: Oh, gosh, I think My very first investment was Vanguard,

68
00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 3: and I think it might have been probably un a

69
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 3: ship if that's probably the as.

70
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, so that's the Australian Chare Fund. Yeah,

71
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,560
Speaker 1: all right. So going back to sort of women and

72
00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 1: where women fit in the Fire movement. You know, you've

73
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,000
Speaker 1: mentioned that women they approach fire differently than men, and

74
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,560
Speaker 1: I'm inclined to agree, But what would you say from

75
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,520
Speaker 1: your opinion are the key differences that you've picked up?

76
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,120
Speaker 1: You know, is it mindset, is it strategy, is it

77
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 1: motivation or is it a mix of the two, Like,

78
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,120
Speaker 1: how do you see the key differences between men and

79
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,839
Speaker 1: women in this incredibly powerful, inspiring movement.

80
00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question. I think there's two things.

81
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:23,919
Speaker 3: I've thought about this a lot. I think that it

82
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,719
Speaker 3: boils down to the first thing is that I think

83
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:31,240
Speaker 3: that women fundamentally want autonomy and security. I personally, and

84
00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,960
Speaker 3: this is like a lot I speak a lot to

85
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,520
Speaker 3: Australian Fire followers, but also in the States and actually

86
00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,279
Speaker 3: the UK, Europe kind of globally. We're not really interested

87
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,960
Speaker 3: in conquests, we're not interested in shooting the lights out

88
00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 3: being the market. We don't want to pick unicorn stocks.

89
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:49,440
Speaker 3: I don't want to day trade. I don't want to

90
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 3: see it at my computer all day. In fact, quite

91
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 3: the opposite. I want to build an est egg that

92
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 3: makes me feel safe and secure. And when I've dug

93
00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 3: really deep into this, it often comes back to feeling tracked,

94
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,920
Speaker 3: the concept of sort of untrapping. At the time when

95
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,880
Speaker 3: I started, I was in a bad job that I

96
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,279
Speaker 3: felt very trapped in, as I've said, due to this AESOP,

97
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 3: this employee share component which had just very extremely unfair

98
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,440
Speaker 3: vesting terms. I had been at this company from its infancy,

99
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,360
Speaker 3: so I was sort of there to see these shells

100
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,120
Speaker 3: thisss so that I could sort of take them and go.

101
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 3: But I was really stuck there and I had a

102
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,799
Speaker 3: proper it was a real nax CEO, Like the work

103
00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:32,159
Speaker 3: was really hard, super long hours. I just wasn't happy.

104
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,880
Speaker 3: So it was this feeling of just like there has

105
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,039
Speaker 3: to be another way, Like work can't always look like this,

106
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,080
Speaker 3: And at the time I didn't know that it wouldn't,

107
00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,600
Speaker 3: but that was my frame of reference for what work

108
00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,760
Speaker 3: would be, and I thought, if I'm going to stay

109
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 3: and take startups, it's always going to be like this.

110
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 3: But over the years, this concept of sort of sort

111
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 3: of feeling trapped I wanted to move away from that

112
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,880
Speaker 3: also popped up again once I had kids, because I

113
00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,680
Speaker 3: started to feel a little bit trapped in motherhood and

114
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 3: I was trying to juggle the paid labor of that

115
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 3: alongside the paid labor of doing an actual pay job.

116
00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,680
Speaker 3: I've also been in you aside from that, bad situations

117
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,960
Speaker 3: while traveling or on nights out, and I've had to

118
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,520
Speaker 3: make swift decisions to leave. So I think for women,

119
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,560
Speaker 3: we want to be able to have choices and freedom

120
00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:23,919
Speaker 3: to navigate systems that haven't always served us equally. So

121
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,200
Speaker 3: that's the first thing. I think. The second thing that

122
00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 3: makes women a little bit difference is that we tend

123
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,040
Speaker 3: to invest more in line with personal values. So when

124
00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,040
Speaker 3: I my husband and I talk about, you know, what

125
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,279
Speaker 3: our next stock pick or next fund investment might be,

126
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,400
Speaker 3: for example, he will often look at performance. He will

127
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 3: look at what he's read, so what's topical, Whereas that

128
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 3: matters a lot less to me over what the company represents.

129
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,400
Speaker 3: So I, for example, look at things like ESG rating,

130
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,800
Speaker 3: I look at performance reports. I look at whether a

131
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 3: company's been ethically screened. I always look at the female

132
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,040
Speaker 3: representation on a board, because to me, that's a really

133
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 3: good patter as to whether they'll perform well. And I

134
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,160
Speaker 3: think the research shows that women tend to invest this

135
00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,760
Speaker 3: way and in a more consistent way, albeit later than men,

136
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,640
Speaker 3: whereas men tend to not follow a trend as much

137
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,720
Speaker 3: because they're sort of more volatile in their decision making.

138
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 3: So I think, at least in my experience, and I

139
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 3: suppose anecdotally what I've sort of gleaned from talking to

140
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,440
Speaker 3: other female investors is that those are the two sort

141
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 3: of key differences.

142
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would I speaking from experience obvious as

143
00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 1: a financial that I'm working with men and women, I

144
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 1: completely agree with that, Like, that's very much what I've seen,

145
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,080
Speaker 1: that kind of calm, rational, methodical approach by women, and

146
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,360
Speaker 1: then men will have sort of a bit more I guess,

147
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,960
Speaker 1: captivated by the opportunity, the upside, and perhaps maybe a

148
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,880
Speaker 1: little bit more I wouldn't say your rational, but a

149
00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,920
Speaker 1: little bit more fast moving and making those decisions. Now,

150
00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,360
Speaker 1: coming to the topic of motherhood, you know, me, when

151
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 1: I became a mother, I suddenly went from being I

152
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 1: guess very driven and motivated to probably having a greater

153
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 1: desire motivation towards.

154
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,440
Speaker 2: Security and stability.

155
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,760
Speaker 1: How would you say, you know, becoming a mother because

156
00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,880
Speaker 1: you've got two young children, has I guess impacted or

157
00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 1: how your relationship with money has perhaps evolved in this transition,

158
00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,400
Speaker 1: and how has that impacted your fire goals?

159
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it made me realize that I wanted

160
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,319
Speaker 3: to go back to work because I'd spent a lot

161
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,640
Speaker 3: of time feeling that my work was the problem. And

162
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,800
Speaker 3: actually work wasn't the problem, it just wasn't that I

163
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,320
Speaker 3: wasn't doing purposeful work.

164
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

165
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,920
Speaker 3: So when I had my first son, he was very

166
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,640
Speaker 3: late to day care because I didn't think he went

167
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,440
Speaker 3: to day care until he was two and a half.

168
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,959
Speaker 3: And that's for a few reasons. The primary one was

169
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 3: that COVID happened right as he was born. Most of

170
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,840
Speaker 3: his infancy everything was closed and we just spent a

171
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,680
Speaker 3: lot of time together and indoors. So I really craved

172
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 3: going back to work, which was very unexpected for me.

173
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 3: And when I did, when he started daycare, I was

174
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,080
Speaker 3: so renewed. I felt this really renewed sense of purpose

175
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,120
Speaker 3: and identity in myself and that was a really nice

176
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,080
Speaker 3: shift that was very unexpected. I was really laser focused

177
00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,720
Speaker 3: on what I wanted, which was also writing a nonfiction

178
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,560
Speaker 3: book which had been on the backburn a few years

179
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 3: because quote unquote I never had time. Yeah, so you

180
00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 3: know the difference I suppose in work, I think as

181
00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 3: well as that my ability to multitask and balance is insane.

182
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,319
Speaker 3: I'm very grateful and I'm hyper aware of the very

183
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,959
Speaker 3: limited hours I have for things, so I'm much more

184
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,439
Speaker 3: efficient with them. I also don't care as much about things.

185
00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,160
Speaker 3: But money wise, I don't think really it's all that different.

186
00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,000
Speaker 3: We've always been low and slow investors. That really hasn't changed.

187
00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 3: The security piece has always been a very strong theme.

188
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 3: But I suppose what has changed is what we want

189
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 3: to do when we retire. So my husband always had

190
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,960
Speaker 3: this sort of like open ended goal of like, maybe

191
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,600
Speaker 3: you want to travel, that would be nice. I don't

192
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,439
Speaker 3: really know what we would do if we weren't working,

193
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 3: But now we have this stream to buy a big

194
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,679
Speaker 3: camp van, do lots of traveling with the kids, maybe

195
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,880
Speaker 3: work part time on the road as we go. That's

196
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,679
Speaker 3: definitely sort of a new development.

197
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:32,080
Speaker 2: Now.

198
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,199
Speaker 1: On that topic of working part time, you know you've

199
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 1: made that conscious decision when you hit that, you know, retirement,

200
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,960
Speaker 1: it's not actually a you know, hang up your shoes

201
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 1: and go fishing and never work it down in your

202
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,599
Speaker 1: life ever. Again, it's more about working part time indefinitely.

203
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 1: Why is that important to you now? Like that you

204
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 1: want this? You know your retirement is going to include,

205
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,439
Speaker 1: you know, working part time. What's changed there?

206
00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think I I want my kids to see

207
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,040
Speaker 3: me working like it's important that I think that they do.

208
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,120
Speaker 3: And I think I'm a better mother when I have

209
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,920
Speaker 3: that balance in my life. To be honest with.

210
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,600
Speaker 1: You, agree more I could sometize I can't. We'll out

211
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 1: the door to go to work and have a conversation

212
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,680
Speaker 1: and you my brain and you know, and I completely agree.

213
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,280
Speaker 1: Letting kids see you work hard is still a really

214
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:27,560
Speaker 1: great work ethic totally to follow. It's it's invaluable. And

215
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,800
Speaker 1: you know, parents often say to me, like, how do

216
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 1: I teach my kids how to do money?

217
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, watch you work like that in.

218
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,520
Speaker 1: Itself is a financial lesson and you know a message

219
00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,480
Speaker 1: of wisdom and you know, dedication and perseverance. So yeah,

220
00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,000
Speaker 1: I completely agree with you.

221
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really important. I come back on my cup

222
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,120
Speaker 3: as full and I just have more. It doesn't actually

223
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,480
Speaker 3: drain me, it fills it up and I have more

224
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,360
Speaker 3: to pour into them, which I don't think I would

225
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,559
Speaker 3: have if it's just it's too important. Really, it's too

226
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 3: important to me. Like I actually I thought I hated working,

227
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,160
Speaker 3: and I don't. I actually love working. I just didn't

228
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,520
Speaker 3: like the work that I was doing for who I

229
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 3: was doing it for. And now that I'm self employed,

230
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,320
Speaker 3: I pick who I want to work with, and I

231
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,960
Speaker 3: you know, I have a lot of flexibility around my hours.

232
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,800
Speaker 3: It's just it's totally changed the game for me. It's

233
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 3: I feel very lucky.

234
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 1: And also I think, you know, when I'm the same

235
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,520
Speaker 1: as you, I don't want to just retire and stop everything,

236
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, I want to keep using my brain.

237
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,839
Speaker 2: I want to keep, you know, stay relevant. I want

238
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 2: to understand what's going on in the world. I want to

239
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:34,200
Speaker 2: do charity work.

240
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,600
Speaker 1: I want to continue on building great relationships and connections

241
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,559
Speaker 1: with people. So and that's all contributes towards wealth that

242
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,559
Speaker 1: you know, wealth and richness.

243
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,440
Speaker 2: Now you've obviously weathered periods.

244
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,480
Speaker 1: Of you know, no savings due to obviously higher interest

245
00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 1: rates that we've all experienced, and you know, life events

246
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, like maternity leave, Like how have you weather

247
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,679
Speaker 1: these storms or you know period of time in your

248
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:05,320
Speaker 1: life and actually still managed to stay completely committed and

249
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,079
Speaker 1: resilient through this.

250
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. I mean I had high premises gravidia,

251
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:17,439
Speaker 3: which is just a GRL fabilitating condition, and I unfortunately

252
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,199
Speaker 3: had it with both of my kids from very early

253
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,400
Speaker 3: on them both pregnancies, and it meant that I was

254
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:29,880
Speaker 3: effectively rendered from completely bedbound from like week six or

255
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:34,120
Speaker 3: something up until I delivered both of them. So it

256
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:40,360
Speaker 3: didn't go until I delivered the placenta, basically, Yeah, And

257
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,640
Speaker 3: it was and it meant that I had to turn

258
00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,839
Speaker 3: off my life, like just from one day to the next,

259
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,520
Speaker 3: Like one day I could sort of function and I

260
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 3: felt a bit nauseous, and then the next it was

261
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,680
Speaker 3: just no like I was. It was awful. And I

262
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,280
Speaker 3: think that time has a huge emotional there's a huge

263
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,600
Speaker 3: emotional burden that comes with like an condition like that. Anyway,

264
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 3: in trying to and pregnancy is difficult. You know, some

265
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:06,920
Speaker 3: women have great pregnancies and that's wonderful, but I think

266
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,120
Speaker 3: the majority have some level of difficulty with a pregnancy

267
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,880
Speaker 3: because it is a very difficult thing to do is

268
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 3: to create another human or multiples. And I often think

269
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 3: if I so I didn't have to worry about money

270
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,440
Speaker 3: during that time because of the decisions that I had made,

271
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 3: which meant that I could focus on rest and recovery.

272
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,120
Speaker 3: And I remember thinking distinctly, like, this would be so

273
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,400
Speaker 3: much more difficult if I was still having to try

274
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 3: to get up and go to work or even budget

275
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,120
Speaker 3: and manage my money from bed, right, because you know

276
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,240
Speaker 3: how much more difficult that I've made that time in

277
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,840
Speaker 3: my life, and how much more stressful. I think even

278
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,400
Speaker 3: when I was going through those times, I felt really

279
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 3: grateful for past me and the decisions that I had made,

280
00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,680
Speaker 3: because it was allowing current me toocus on the rest

281
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,880
Speaker 3: and recovery, and that kind of kept me going for like,

282
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,240
Speaker 3: this is why I do this so I may have

283
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,240
Speaker 3: more periods, like if I continue to have more children,

284
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,600
Speaker 3: I will inevitably have pregnancies like this again, or something

285
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,800
Speaker 3: else could happen in my life, and you know, I

286
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,160
Speaker 3: could deal with the chronic illness or have an unexpected injury,

287
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 3: or something could happen where I need to take time

288
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,920
Speaker 3: out of the traditional workforce, and I will have my

289
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,080
Speaker 3: investment in my passive income to see me through, And

290
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 3: I think that's really what kept me feeling very resilient

291
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 3: during those times, because it was like, I've made these

292
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,560
Speaker 3: decisions for a reason. I'm seeing them come to fruit

293
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 3: now and they may have to come to fruit again

294
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 3: in the future, and that feels good.

295
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

296
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:50,480
Speaker 1: Now, many families, like men and women, feel really overwhelmed,

297
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 1: particularly right now, with the rising cost of living, and

298
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,160
Speaker 1: it makes it really hard to save, let alone invest

299
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,680
Speaker 1: whilst raising children. Someone who as a mother with two

300
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 1: young children, who is actively involved in the fire movement,

301
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 1: what would be some you know, realistic and practical strategies

302
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 1: that other people could use, that you can recommend that

303
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,200
Speaker 1: helped you get to where you are today.

304
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it's a that's a hard question to

305
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 3: answer because I think we're in such an unprecedented time

306
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,000
Speaker 3: in terms of the current cost of living, Like that's

307
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,040
Speaker 3: even that's impacted us massively as well, the interest rates

308
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,880
Speaker 3: on our Like we are used to saving huge amounts

309
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,640
Speaker 3: of money, like after seventy percent of our income, and

310
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,320
Speaker 3: this was probably pre children, not after having children, but

311
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,240
Speaker 3: pre children we were doing that. So then with that

312
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 3: definitely went down when we had kids. Too much more

313
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 3: reasonable figure. You know, whatever we could had in surve plus,

314
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 3: it might have been twenty percent or thirty thirty percent

315
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 3: on a good month, to all of a sudden not

316
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 3: even like barely breaking even, and in some some months

317
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 3: not even at all, digging into the offset savings in

318
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 3: order to cover the shortfall of the mortgage and that,

319
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,960
Speaker 3: you know, and if that's us, I can only imagine,

320
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,240
Speaker 3: you know, the situation that other folk on potentially lower

321
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,439
Speaker 3: incomes or not with the sort of financial news that

322
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,680
Speaker 3: we have, the position that they were in, it would

323
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 3: have been very difficult. But I think the thing that

324
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 3: I always go back to is like, what a little

325
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,639
Speaker 3: that you can do? It really is a snowball effect.

326
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,399
Speaker 3: So it might not be you know, if you have

327
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 3: some disposable income that you can free up and save

328
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 3: and invest, that's fantastic. But I think some people sometimes

329
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 3: fall into the mindset of like, well, if I can't

330
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 3: do everything with grandeur, I might as well not do

331
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 3: anything at all. And I really don't think that's the case.

332
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,679
Speaker 3: I think it's building wealth is a slow burn, at

333
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 3: least it has been for us. It's low and slow.

334
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 3: Lots of small incremental decisions lots of conscious spending making

335
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 3: those little choices do add up. So what little things

336
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,720
Speaker 3: that you can you do that are realistic for you

337
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 3: in your day to day, in your life, in your

338
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 3: finances to kind of move the needle on the long

339
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 3: term goal of wealth, right, And that might be something

340
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,959
Speaker 3: small like unsubscribing from a few marketing emails that you

341
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 3: otherwise wouldn't or finding something else that is a less

342
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,640
Speaker 3: expensive way to get the dopamine that you need.

343
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 1: And authentic sustainable dopamine heat as well.

344
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, like the little it's just you just don't

345
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 3: give up, Like, just don't give up through it. Just

346
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 3: something little small that it will It's it's a small

347
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 3: it's the slow burn, the small build.

348
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

349
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 1: I and even just you know, opening up a savings

350
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 1: account transferring one dollar, that in itself is the birth

351
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 1: of your fire strategy. And you might be just transferring

352
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,239
Speaker 1: one dollar. I think, what's well, guess what Tomorrow might

353
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: be two dollars, and the following day might be five dollars,

354
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 1: and the following day might be ten dollars. You know,

355
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 1: you know then this is the whole principle behind a

356
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,880
Speaker 1: thousand dollars project is just small amounts of money, how

357
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:11,879
Speaker 1: it can really do quickly add up and then you

358
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 1: can do something intentional with that money, you know, for

359
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 1: your fire journey.

360
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,160
Speaker 2: Now you've talked about previously your son.

361
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 1: And how you included him in your conversations around money

362
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 1: and fire.

363
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 2: How does how does that work? What does that look like?

364
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think the big thing I actually wrote a

365
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 3: blog on this, and I think I kind of even

366
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 3: what it's called. I think it's something about like your

367
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 3: top lessons to teach kids earlyer or something on my blog.

368
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 3: But the big one that I think has resonated a

369
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,159
Speaker 3: lot with my mum friends particularly, is the phrase you

370
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 3: can have. And there's a podcast. There's a woman who

371
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,880
Speaker 3: runs a podcast that's called afford Anything, but the key

372
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 3: tagline is you can have anything but not everything. Yeah,

373
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 3: and that's something that's really like had to come into

374
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 3: play quite a lot as he's grown, because he will

375
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 3: ask for everything and children don't really have a very

376
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 3: you know, money is infinite to them.

377
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so and beautiful, but obviously comes with the

378
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 1: problems further down the track if it's.

379
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 3: Not taught totally. And I so I have to you know,

380
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 3: like I don't I don't want to. No mother wants

381
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 3: to deprive their child of anything or a nice experience.

382
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 3: But I will often have moments where I have to

383
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 3: get down on his level and say, okay, so you've

384
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 3: asked for a few things. I know this is a

385
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 3: really overwhelming place for you because you can see all

386
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 3: of these things that you want, or we're walking past

387
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 3: shops that have these great displays in the window, but

388
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 3: we can't. We have a budget and we can't go

389
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 3: over that budget. So you have a little bit of

390
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 3: money left in your budget, but you've got to pick,

391
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 3: and that means that you might only have one thing

392
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 3: or two things, or if you've you spent money and

393
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 3: we've already used it for that week, then no things.

394
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 3: But you can have anything, but you can't have everything.

395
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 3: So you've got to be You've got to be discerning

396
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,360
Speaker 3: and what you pick. And that is like we've done

397
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 3: that from when he was young, and that's been really

398
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 3: helpful because my mum friends on me do playdates will

399
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 3: often say to me now like, oh, he just accepts

400
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 3: that when you say it to him, Like, my kiddo

401
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 3: have had a screaming tantrum for three hours over this

402
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, d we've had those, but he

403
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 3: now like, we've definitely had those in the past, but

404
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 3: he now really understands that concept, like, Okay, I spent

405
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 3: my money. I think that's a really key thing. The

406
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 3: other thing was around language around money. So I say

407
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,239
Speaker 3: things to him like you are my best investment, and

408
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 3: then I use phrases like you know, we'll always have

409
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 3: enough in our sort of everyday language, because I want

410
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 3: him to know that attitude towards money is really calm

411
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 3: and it's balanced. It's money is not who we are,

412
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 3: it's what we have, and it comes and goes, it flows.

413
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 3: So I think those are kind of the key things.

414
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, talking about you know, I guess

415
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: touching back on that whole dopamine topic, you know, teaching

416
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: kids about delayed gratification. Yes, and you know, doing the

417
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: research understanding difference between quality and quantity, and you know,

418
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: thinking about, Okay, if I'm going to buy this toy,

419
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 1: I wanted to last me a really long time. I

420
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 1: don't want it to fall apart or I don't want

421
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: to fall out of love with it or no longer

422
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: be you know cool with my friends. You know, those

423
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: conversations are really powerful and it means that you know

424
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: that dopamine hit is actually one that's sustainable. You know,

425
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: it's not about a quick hit, so you know, and

426
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: people don't realize actually how powerful these conversations are. They

427
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: cost nothing, They don't involve you having to do a

428
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: complicated investment strategy. But what you are teaching your children

429
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: will serve them for the rest of their lives totally.

430
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 3: He actually had a hes, a little modeling agency, and

431
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 3: he had a shoot with a big department store and

432
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: they get paid for that obviously, and I said to him,

433
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 3: if you want to do this, then you'll get this money.

434
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 3: It's a much per hour, but the money and you

435
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: can have a think about what you want to buy

436
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: with that money. In Australia, it's like Nintendo switch on

437
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 3: a Nintendo switch. I said, okay, he's probably going to

438
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 3: have enough for that, but it takes So he did

439
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: the shoot. It was great. It takes a long time

440
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 3: for the money to land in your account once you

441
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 3: finish a job like that. And so every time we've

442
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 3: walked past a like a text door, go yeah, but

443
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 3: that I earned that money. That's mine and I want

444
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 3: to buy my Nintendo switch. But and then I have

445
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 3: to keep saying to him, Yeah, we have to wait

446
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 3: for the money to land, and when it does, you'll

447
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 3: be able to get the cash out. And that was

448
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 3: a sweet day for him when that finally came through,

449
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: we got that cash out, he went and paid for

450
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 3: it. It was like he actually said to me, this was

451
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 3: worth the way. And I think that's pretty self aware

452
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 3: for a five year old to say managing a screen

453
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 3: time is a separate issue, but you.

454
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: Know, oh that's gorgeous.

455
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: Can I move on to, you know, your marriage, if

456
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: that's okay? And like, ask you, how do you and

457
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: your husband stay aligned when it comes to making those

458
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: big financial decisions. Also balancing the work life balance, because

459
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: I feel like women were so much of the you

460
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: know life family life admin at the expense of their

461
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 1: career paths.

462
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I'm I'm I feel like I'm

463
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 3: really lucky because I started on this journey much earlier

464
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: than he did. And he saw and he wasn't, you know,

465
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 3: the idea of saving a huge portion of your income

466
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 3: and investing it was not you know, preferable to him

467
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 3: in the early days. And he and I saw I

468
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 3: did it alone for quite a while, but he saw

469
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 3: the massive gains that I achieved on my own in

470
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 3: the beginning, and I think he just really respected that.

471
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 3: He really respected the research that I'd done into the

472
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 3: fire lifestyle. So he's pretty converted, I think, and he generally,

473
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: I think the respect is the key thing, because he

474
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 3: lets me lead on a lot of this stuff and

475
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 3: he kind of comes along for the ride, and I

476
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: think I'm and he kind of understands my decision making

477
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 3: a lot and if we need to sort of hash

478
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: it out and have a conversation about it, we will.

479
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 3: And that's not to say that I manage everything, because

480
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 3: he is certainly like has input into things. But I

481
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 3: think where we work is that I utilize his strengths

482
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: in a different way. So he's he loves excel. That's

483
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 3: his like thing, and it's a really powerful tool for

484
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 3: us for tracking our wealth. So I let sort of

485
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 3: him take that aspect of it off my plate and

486
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 3: him managed that, and then I sort of do all

487
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: of the picking and then the research into the companies

488
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 3: that we invest in, all the property that we buy,

489
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 3: for example, and he kind of That's just kind of

490
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 3: a dynamic that works for us.

491
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I guess leveraging off each other's strengths and yeah,

492
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: divide and conquer.

493
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if something that I people want to do

494
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 3: doesn't quite work for him, like he says that, and

495
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: then we just let it breathe, We give it some time.

496
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's you know, perfect and beautiful. And

497
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: you know, the teamwork makes the dream work. So and

498
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: I think what I It's interesting to say this because

499
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: I was in a podcast a couple of weeks ago

500
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: and talking about, you know, vulnerability and you know, knowing

501
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: that making peace with the fact that you could do

502
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: it on your own. But if you have the opportunity

503
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: to team up with someone, you're going to conquer more

504
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: and you're going to conquer things faster. And there's nothing

505
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: wrong or right between either of them. But you know,

506
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: there's I know, as myself, I've had a lot of trouble,

507
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: I guess.

508
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 2: Letting go of my.

509
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: Independence as much like whilst I'm financially independent of Tom,

510
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: I've also had to kind of at times, I guess,

511
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: sit through some uncomfortableness also maybe the self imposed limitations

512
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: that I put on myself about working together as a team.

513
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: It hasn't been an easy transition, and every now and

514
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: again we do hit I hit personal blocks that sort

515
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: of sit on and work through.

516
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: But it is also scary as well.

517
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: I think opening up and going all right, we're going

518
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: to combine our financial journeys and stories and build something together,

519
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, and keep what we've done previously in the past,

520
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: us our own individually. What would you say from your

521
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: experience are the biggest misconceptions? You know, you've had to

522
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 1: yourself learn about fire or you know, building wealth as

523
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: a woman, as a partner and of course as a mother.

524
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a great question that women can't invest, that

525
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: we don't make good investors. So I and I'll use it.

526
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 3: I want to use a terrible swoyword, but I won't

527
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 3: to tell use a PG want is that a crap?

528
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: So I early on I used to I've told the

529
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: story a few times on sort of different interviews that

530
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: I've done when I was very when I started out

531
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 3: on this journey, I probably just due to the personality

532
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: type that I have, I was like, how do I

533
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 3: learn from? I want to learn from people who have

534
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 3: built large sums of wealth, and they would be you know, known,

535
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: well known, investors in particularly the sort of the Australian market,

536
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 3: so Sydney where I was living, or CEOs. So I'm

537
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: going to invite them out for lunch and I'm going

538
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 3: to pick their brains. And a lot of them said

539
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 3: yes to that, which is odd when an eighteen year old,

540
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 3: spunky eighteen year old it puts an email in your

541
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: books inviting you out. But they said yes. A lot

542
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 3: of them happened to be men, and I just took

543
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 3: a lot of them out for lunch. I was like,

544
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: how did you make the money that you've made or

545
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 3: the decisions that you made that have led you to

546
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 3: where you are? And a lot of them, not all

547
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 3: of them, but I would say that like over fifty

548
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: percent of them, particularly the ones that were men, told

549
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: me that women didn't make good financial decisions, Like I

550
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 3: remembered that being a theme that kept popping up. I

551
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 3: wish I could go back the version I am now

552
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 3: to the younger men. I know that I wish I

553
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: could tell them that. You know, I would't go back

554
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: and say that, but anyway, I was a lot younger

555
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 3: than but I remember thinking like, not, I can't be true.

556
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: I just don't think that's true, and I know that's

557
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 3: not true now, and I think that that's a huge

558
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 3: misconception that women are too shy or we're not good

559
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 3: with money, and that's just just crap.

560
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it's confidence, and then behind

561
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: the confidence is a lack of financial literacy. And that's

562
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: obviously why I'm so passionate about educating, because when you

563
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: can educate, you create clarity, and you create a sense

564
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: of purpose and direction, and you can follow the instructions

565
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: and you can tweak and change the instructions as you

566
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: go through your financial journey. So you know, I think

567
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: once you give someone the gift of financial literacy and

568
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: a bit of faith in themselves, you know, off you go,

569
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: like the sky really is the limit, whether you're male

570
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: or female, worthy, or young or old, or whether you

571
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: come from poverty or you come from extreme wealth.

572
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: Like, financial education is essential.

573
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: It's important as understanding the importance of way to eat,

574
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: and the importance of understanding the value of exercise and

575
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: moving your body for long term health longevity. As we

576
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: wrap up today's episode, what I always like to ask,

577
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: like Land or conclude with, you know, what is the

578
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: one piece of advice? And so my question to you is,

579
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: what is the one piece of advice you would give

580
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: another woman listening to this conversation right now who is

581
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: feeling a little bit maybe behind financially or feeling as

582
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: I said, insecure, lacking in faith and confidence about fire,

583
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: but actually does have a little bit of a burning

584
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: curiosity deep within. You know, what would you say to

585
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: that one woman listening right now to this conversation.

586
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: Or follow that follow that instinct. Yeah, I think I

587
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 3: couldn't agree more on your last point. And I think

588
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 3: actually to that last point it you know, if you

589
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 3: look at there's a lot out there on a lot of

590
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 3: it's us space, but there is a lot of reading

591
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: material out there from female bloggers who have retired early

592
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 3: or are on the path to it, and women have

593
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: these stories, you know, tell the tales of these women

594
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: who have retired early from like very little or nothing

595
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 3: or even massive amounts of debt where they otherwise wouldn't

596
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: have been able to And it might only be that

597
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 3: they've changed their story so that they can retire like

598
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: two to three years or five years earlier than they

599
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 3: normally would have been able to, or even that they

600
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 3: just retired at the normal age that someone should retire

601
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 3: at when the alternative if they continued on their previous path,

602
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: would have been that they would have been working until

603
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 3: they were in their eighties or you know, physically unable

604
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: to work anymore. So they've changed that story for themselves

605
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: by you know, following that instinct or you know, indulging

606
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 3: that curiosity to say like, I don't want to live

607
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 3: like this anymore, and I don't need to because there

608
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 3: are there are options for me. And it goes back

609
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: to that you know, little and open thing that you

610
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 3: start with. It really is a snowball effect, but go

611
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 3: with it, follow the instinct, and you.

612
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: Know, there are wake up calls, you know, all around

613
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: us science to say, come on, pull your head in,

614
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: come on, make a change, Come on, you can do this,

615
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: come on, just get started. But we just need to

616
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: learn to act on those signs and make them a

617
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: catalyst and start our financial journey like birth it as

618
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: we said about motherhood. Well look, Michelle, I can't thank

619
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: you enough for sharing your story, your insights and of

620
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: course your journey with so much honesty and.

621
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: Just practical wisdom.

622
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: So for everyone who's listening, you know, hearing Michelle's story,

623
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: it reminds us that financial independence isn't about retiring early

624
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: or even actually hitting a particular number. It's really about

625
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: intentionally designing a life that feels rich to you, feels

626
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: deeply meaningful, and is aligned to the values in your

627
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: life that make you feel alive, happy, and resilient. And

628
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: to every single woman listening to this episode, I hope

629
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 1: that you actually now have a bit of clarity and

630
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: that very important confidence to know that you are worthy

631
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: of this path as well. You can pave this path

632
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: for yourself and be an incredible example for your loved

633
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: ones and everyone else around you. So, whether you're parenting,

634
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: or you're pivoting, or you're just planting those first seeds

635
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: for your own FID dream, please know that it is

636
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: never too late.

637
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: You are never.

638
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: Behind, and you absolutely have the power to not only

639
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: change your financial future, but to leap frog and make

640
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: up for any lost time that you think you may

641
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: have created. Now, everyone for listen to this, thank you

642
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: so much for your time, and again, thank you, Michelle.

643
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: If this episode has.

644
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: Resonated with you or you think someone needs to hear this,

645
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: can you do me a massive favor and send it

646
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: to them right now and if you have a spare moment,

647
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: I'd also greatly appreciate if you can leave me a

648
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: rating and review. I will link in the podcast notes

649
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: obviously Michelle's blog and so you can get in contact

650
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: with her whenever you need. But in the meantime, of course,

651
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: keep that financial fire burning right within, and I look

652
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: forward to catching up with you next Monday on Sugar

653
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: Mama's Fireplay