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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Thursday, February twenty six, twenty twenty six. Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: is doubling down on tariffs despite a loss in the

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Speaker 1: United States Supreme Court. He's declared tariffs will substantially replace

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Speaker 1: income taxes and won't need to be approved by Congress.

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Speaker 1: The President used his State of the Union address to

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Speaker 1: defend his economic performance and declare America would always welcome

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Speaker 1: immigrants who arrived legally. Victorian Premier Decina Allen is working

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Speaker 1: on a plan to supercharge Victoria's anti corruption watchdog as

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Speaker 1: it deals with the scandal engulfing the Construction, Forestry, Mining

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Speaker 1: and Energy Union CFMU. The oppositioner and minor parties are

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Speaker 1: trying to force through legislative amendments toughening the powers of

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Speaker 1: the independent Broad Based Anti Corruption Commission IBACK, and now

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Speaker 1: the premiers working on a plan to get the government's

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Speaker 1: own reforms in place first. That's inexclusive Live now at

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Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au. Little kids desperate to

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Speaker 1: come home to the land of bluey and blue skies.

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Speaker 1: Today we're hearing the voices of Australian children in northern

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Speaker 1: Syria's Al Rouge Camp, the so called isis Brides, a

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Speaker 1: group of thirty four women and children left behind in

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Speaker 1: the detritus of Islamic States failed Caliphate, have Australian passports

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Speaker 1: and are trying to leave the camp and make their

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Speaker 1: way back to New South Wales, where they're likely to settle.

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Speaker 1: Today we go inside the camp and speak to Asia

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Speaker 1: Pacific correspondent Amanda Hodge about the wicked problem confronting authorities

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Speaker 1: on two sides of the world. Amanda Hodge is The

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Speaker 1: Australian's Asia specific correspondent and she's been reporting on the

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Speaker 1: case of thirty four Australian women and children who are

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Speaker 1: desperately trying to get home. Amanda, They're a long way

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Speaker 1: away in northern Syria. This is a really hard story

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Speaker 1: to cover. You cover a huge patch, but right now

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Speaker 1: you're in Australia. How are you doing this reporting?

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Speaker 2: We contacted a really great journalist on the ground in

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Speaker 2: northeast Syria and he's been helping us out. It took

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Speaker 2: a number of days to get permission to get into

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Speaker 2: Roche camp, but he managed to do that overnight.

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Speaker 3: My name is Muhana Hassan. I'm working for the Australian

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Speaker 3: in new spaper. Are you are you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So he's taken some video for us of the

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Speaker 1: scenes in that camp. The thirty four women and children

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Speaker 1: who thought that they were already out, they left the

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Speaker 1: camp once got turned back. Now they're there. What are

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Speaker 1: we seeing in this video and what are they telling us?

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Speaker 2: We're seeing a pretty wretched internment camp, very sort of

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Speaker 2: ramshackle tense, very basic kind of wash stations or bikes

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Speaker 2: and cars for kids. The women, most of them are

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Speaker 2: wearing full face burkers. I gather that's as much for

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Speaker 2: their own security as anything, given there are elements in

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Speaker 2: the camp that remain extremist, but the women themselves and

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Speaker 2: the kids, there's almost a cognitive dissonance really because when

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Speaker 2: you hear them speaking, they're just these little Aussies, you know,

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Speaker 2: the kids in sort of bright pink parkers and puddies

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Speaker 2: talking about bluey and bingo and wanting to see the ocean. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it really cuts through, right. I Mean you can hear

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Speaker 2: all of the debate in Canberra, but kids have a

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Speaker 2: way of cutting through the bullshit, don't they really do?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're obviously desperate to just have normal lives

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Speaker 1: like any children would be. Visus Leilah speaking to our

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Speaker 1: reporter Muhammed has Son along with her mother Zenab Ahmed,

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Speaker 1: I kind of.

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Speaker 4: Live for another for another thousand weeks.

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Speaker 3: You know where were you born there?

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Speaker 4: I was born in here, which is I hate again?

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Speaker 3: You were born in the camp, so you've never seen outside? No,

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Speaker 3: but I just saw a.

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Speaker 4: See the way when you drove water, I saw a

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Speaker 4: donkey and what I saw a horse? I saw a

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Speaker 4: pain for the first time. Yeah, yeah, and I saw

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Speaker 4: a baby cow. Nobody's right. I started, I'm drinking water.

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Speaker 4: I saw some milk coming out.

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Speaker 3: Of the good with someone milking the goat.

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Speaker 4: I can't yeah, I just didn't see.

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Speaker 1: It might be hard for Australians to get a sense

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Speaker 1: of what these camps are actually like. There are two

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Speaker 1: huge detention camps in northern Syria, al Haul and Alurge

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Speaker 1: and as Islamic state kind of retreated in the late

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Speaker 1: twenty tens. This is in territory controlled by the Kurds,

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Speaker 1: not controlled at the moment by the Syrian government, and

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Speaker 1: of course Syria is itself in massive upheaval. The camps

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Speaker 1: are closing though soon.

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Speaker 3: What's going on there?

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Speaker 2: One of the camps has pretty much already closed, and

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Speaker 2: that's our whole camp, and we're not exactly sure what's

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Speaker 2: happened to all of those people. There were hundreds of

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Speaker 2: people that streamed out of there in recent weeks. Some

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Speaker 2: of them were taken by ISIS soldiers, some of them

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Speaker 2: went into a camp in Aleppo. But the Syrian government

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Speaker 2: has made it pretty clear it doesn't want to be

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Speaker 2: responsible for these people in the long term. The Kurds

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Speaker 2: also don't want to be responsible for them in the

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Speaker 2: long term. They have their own issues to deal with.

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Speaker 2: They're still about two and a half twenty three hundred

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Speaker 2: or so people in the Rojes camp, but the Kurdish

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Speaker 2: authorities made clear this week that they were accelerating the

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Speaker 2: closure of that camp, and that leaves these eleven families

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Speaker 2: and countless other foreign families in complete limbo. They don't

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Speaker 2: know what they're going to do next. But these eleven women,

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Speaker 2: they have Australian passports.

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Speaker 1: Do we think that they physically have those passports now

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Speaker 1: or is it still the case as seemed to be

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Speaker 1: indicated last week. But they've got to get themselves to

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Speaker 1: an Australian embassy in order to be issued their passports.

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Speaker 2: That's not what we've been told. The camp manager told

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Speaker 2: us overnight that they have the passports. A Syrian kurd

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Speaker 2: foreign Ministry official told us last week that they had

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Speaker 2: the passports. We understand from the Sydney doctor that's been

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Speaker 2: helping them, Jamal Riffi, that they have the passports. So

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Speaker 2: it seems like, regardless of the rhetoric in Canberra that

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Speaker 2: we're taking a hard line, we're not going to do

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Speaker 2: anything about helping them come back. The ultimate government in

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Speaker 2: primata is to issue passports. And if, as it seems

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Speaker 2: to be the case, they've bent a few rules custody

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Speaker 2: protocols to get these passports to the women and kids,

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Speaker 2: then they're sending pretty mixed me messages if they're saying

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Speaker 2: one thing in Parliament and on the other hand they've

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Speaker 2: allowed these passports to travel all the way from presumably

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Speaker 2: Beirut to get to northeast Syria.

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Speaker 1: Is the plan, as far as you can tell Amanda,

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Speaker 1: for them to still do what they tried to do

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Speaker 1: last time, which is get themselves by road to Damascus

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Speaker 1: and then try and get out from there.

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Speaker 2: I think that's their only option. The Iraqi government is

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Speaker 2: not interested in helping former Isis brides for pretty obvious reasons.

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Speaker 2: The Syrian government feels that its hands are tied from

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Speaker 2: the sounds of it, because the rhetoric coming out of

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Speaker 2: Australia is we don't want these people back. At the

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Speaker 2: same time, they have passports, so it's entirely in the

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Speaker 2: hands of the Syrians really whether they let these women

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Speaker 2: and children into Damascus airport and out of the country,

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Speaker 2: because the Kurds have already said they're happy for them

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Speaker 2: to go.

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Speaker 1: This is not a problem unique to Australia. For the

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Speaker 1: past decade and more Western governments have been dealing with

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Speaker 1: their own citizens who decided to go into a war

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Speaker 1: zone for a number of reasons. Of course, there were

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Speaker 1: fighters who had been radicalized, maybe on social media, who

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Speaker 1: decided they wanted to go and fight for Isis. There

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Speaker 1: were naughty teenage girls for want of a better description,

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Speaker 1: who thought that this would be a big.

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Speaker 3: Adventure for them.

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Speaker 1: And there were children as well who were taken thereby,

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Speaker 1: for example, their fathers, and then married to jihades who

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Speaker 1: lived there. Now, of course, anyone who was a wife

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Speaker 1: is a widow or her former husband is in prison

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Speaker 1: in Syria. What do we know about who these women

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Speaker 1: actually are? The eleven women in this group.

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Speaker 2: Well, we know that one of them is subject to

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Speaker 2: a temporary exclusion order. But in general, from what the

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Speaker 2: camp manager told us overnight, they're well behaved. There's no

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Speaker 2: extremists in this group, she says, there are two extremists

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Speaker 2: in another camp. And I mean, look, it's not just

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Speaker 2: the girls either that although they are a very big risk,

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Speaker 2: you know, especially as they get a bit older. In

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Speaker 2: these camps, it's boys that reach the age of twelve

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Speaker 2: or thirteen, because the standard protocol here is that when

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Speaker 2: they get to that age, they get sent to male

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Speaker 2: adult prisons, regardless of whether they had any involvement in

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Speaker 2: the Isis Caliphate, which of course you couldn't have as

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Speaker 2: a twelve or a thirteen year old kid who's been

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Speaker 2: in a camp for the past five years. But you know,

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Speaker 2: there are a number of those children now who are

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Speaker 2: at that age and are basically living on borrow time.

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Speaker 2: At any stage they could be taken and put into

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Speaker 2: an adult prison, like another Australian boy, Yusuf was, and

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Speaker 2: he's we don't know where he is.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: Everyone who's got any skin in the game on this,

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Speaker 2: whether it's national security experts or child protection officers, say

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Speaker 2: the same thing, which is the solution is the same

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Speaker 2: whether you're dealing with the national security problem or child protection.

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Speaker 2: If you bring them home, then you can deradicalize the kids,

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Speaker 2: you can wrap them in services that they need to

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Speaker 2: move on with their lives, and you can throw the

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Speaker 2: book at any of the mothers who are found to

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Speaker 2: have committed crimes or are seen to be at risk.

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Speaker 2: And all eleven of them have already voluntarily said they

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Speaker 2: will submit to terrorist orders, which can be anything from

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Speaker 2: everything including ankle bracelets, restrictions on internet use, where they

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Speaker 2: can live, who they can talk to. It would seem

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Speaker 2: to me and all the national security experts I've spoken to,

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Speaker 2: that that is the best way of controlling this situation,

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Speaker 2: rather than just kicking a can down a dead end road,

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Speaker 2: because the security situation is crumbling in Syria. If you

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Speaker 2: let this get to the point where those camps close,

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Speaker 2: then what happens to these women? How do you control

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Speaker 2: where they go next? They have live Australian passports.

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Speaker 1: There's an option for the Albaneze government kind of at

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Speaker 1: any point to just cauterize these to say we're going

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Speaker 1: to wear a bit of heat, We're going to let

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Speaker 1: them come home. It would seem from what New South

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Speaker 1: Wales Premier Christmian is saying that there are very active

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Speaker 1: preparations for them to be moving back into Australian suburbs.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think the government just hasn't bitten that

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Speaker 1: bullet yet.

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Speaker 2: Timing, I mean, the timing is dreadful. Australia is still

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Speaker 2: reeling from the worst terrorist attack on Australian soil, and

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Speaker 2: I mean a question in my mind is why didn't

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Speaker 2: they just slow walk the passports. Those passports were issued

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Speaker 2: in a couple of months, which, as anyone who's tried

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Speaker 2: to get a passport before will know, is pretty quick.

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Speaker 2: They could have slow walked those passports for six to

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Speaker 2: twelve months and the timing would have been better for everyone.

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Speaker 2: But I guess at the same time, they're dealing with

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Speaker 2: the situation, like I said, that's crumbling. You know, the

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Speaker 2: US forces are moving out, the Kurds are preparing for

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Speaker 2: possible conflict, the camps are closing. The Trump administration is

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Speaker 2: really pushing hard for all of these people in the

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Speaker 2: camps to be taken home by their countries of origin,

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Speaker 2: and it's offered to repatriate these women and kids in

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Speaker 2: the past, which would seem to be the most sensible

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Speaker 2: and safe option for everyone, and it's hard for me

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Speaker 2: to understand why they haven't taken that up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great point that you make about timing.

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Speaker 1: It's also I wonder a reflection on Anthony Albanese. He's

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Speaker 1: kind of risk averseness and the tactical nature of his politicking.

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Speaker 3: You know that he.

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Speaker 1: Thinks about political tactics rather than thinking about what the

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Speaker 1: actual inevitable outcome is going to be, which is that

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Speaker 1: they just take a lot longer to get home. And

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Speaker 1: he still has to deal with the problem down the road.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a problem that's festering and sort of building right,

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Speaker 2: building in size as every day goes on. It feels

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Speaker 2: like Anthony Albanesi had a couple of off ramps offered

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Speaker 2: to him over the past sort of year or so

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Speaker 2: or even more, and each one of those was a

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Speaker 2: better option than what he ultimately decided to do, which

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Speaker 2: was just to keep kicking the can down the road,

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Speaker 2: and he's ended up with this wicked problem now that's

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Speaker 2: not to say there's no solution here, but what he's

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Speaker 2: doing is not a solution. Saying one thing to the

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Speaker 2: Australian public and the Australian Parliament taking this hard line,

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Speaker 2: I have no you know, sympathy for them. They've made

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Speaker 2: the beds, they should.

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Speaker 3: Lie in them.

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Speaker 2: And on the other hand, quietly issuing passports and subcontracting

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Speaker 2: the problem to well meaning civilians who are clearly, with

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Speaker 2: all due respect, not particularly up to the task.

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Speaker 3: What do you want to tell Australia. What do you

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Speaker 3: want to tell them?

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Speaker 4: Well, now I want to tell my family. I had

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Speaker 4: a lot of cousins that I.

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Speaker 2: Used to When did you come back to the Australia.

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Speaker 4: What do you do You would go to the school too?

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Speaker 3: No, no, you're going to want to now I'm never

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Speaker 3: going to school. Do you want to paint?

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Speaker 4: Paint school and drawing ats and toys? School and I

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Speaker 4: can alling state?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Beaching singers.

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Speaker 3: Do you want to go to the beach? Yeah? Do

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Speaker 3: you want to see Bluiam Bingo? Yes? Of course we

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Speaker 3: love And what do you want to say to the

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Speaker 3: Australian government.

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Speaker 4: Please getring me home as fast as you can.

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Speaker 1: M M. Amanda Hodge is The Australian's Asia Pacific correspondent.

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Speaker 1: You can check out her journalism anytime and all are

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Speaker 1: reporting from the region and the world at the Australian

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Speaker 1: dot com dot au