1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: I thought the petrol taker has hit this corner of 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: this building, right near where we exploded, and the exploded. 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: If we're building up. 4 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: We had light fittings come crashing down around as the 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: plaster pieces came around, and dust everywhere, and this noise, 6 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: this huge explosion. A taste of terrorism, wasn't Yeah, it 7 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: was the taste of terrorism. That's That's exactly what it was, 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: domestic terrorism meters away from from where we were sitting. 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: I'm Andrew Rules Life and Crimes. This week as we 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 2: go to air it is exactly forty years since the 11 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: Russell Street bombing, which of course is one of the 12 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 2: worst crimes ever perpetrated in Australian history. And it was 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 2: the day that our guest in the studio today once said, 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: it's the day that we lost our innocence. And he 15 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: would know because Bill Ayres, who's with us, was chief 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: police reporter of the Venerable Herald newspaper back in the 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 2: mid nineteen eighties, and Bill and I worked together at 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 2: Russell Street, where in those days reporters who covered the 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: crime beat would work, and he was on duty the 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: morning of the Russell Street bombing. He's written us a 21 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: terrific piece about his memories of that day, and he's 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: very kindly come in to talk to us about it 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: all over again. Bill Airs, welcome back to your old haunts, 24 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 2: although of course you worked at Flinders Street, but you 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: are one of the great police reporters of ancient time 26 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 2: and it's good to see you back here. Your piece 27 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: about the Russell Street bombing was very potent, very powerful 28 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: and quite haunting. Although there are certain names sadly that 29 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: we can't mention, names that are closely associated with the bombing, 30 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: which for legal reasons cannot be brought up at this point, 31 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: so we'll be careful about that. 32 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: We will be careful. 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 2: Bill. Take us back to the day of the bombing. 34 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 2: What you did, how it unspooled for you? All right? 35 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: Well, as you mentioned Andrew, we worked out of a 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: pokey little office at Russell Street. There was a few 37 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: room set aside for the media guys. There was a 38 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 1: room for the Sun and the Age and the ABC 39 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: and for us at there. We had three reporters on 40 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 1: that day. There was myself and a young cadet called 41 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: Greg Kerr, and another journo Brian Adams, not related to 42 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: the singer we'd started early in the morning, as was 43 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: the story of the Herald that in those days, we 44 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: had to start early, so wet the meet the deadlines, 45 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: and it just started out. It was a lovely sunny 46 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: autumn day and we just went about doing our business, 47 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: sort of cleaning up what was happening overnight and through 48 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: the rest of that morning. So this is a Thursday 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: before he said Thursday, Yeah, which meant I think that 50 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: the morning newspaper people, meaning the Sun and the Age 51 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: people weren't at work because on good Fridays in those 52 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: days there was no paper. There was no morning paper, 53 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: but you worked for an afternoon paper, the Old Herald, 54 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: which meant you were there very early to publish stories 55 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: that would be published later the same day, later that 56 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: same day. Yep, So we were the only ones there. 57 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: There was a blow for the ab so and he'd 58 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: left fairly early. 59 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: Was that Scoby? 60 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: That was Scoby? 61 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yep. 62 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: He'd turned right out of out of the office to 63 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: head to. 64 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: The tab. 65 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: And they say beddings bad for it saved his life, 66 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: saved his life. He went he went right down to 67 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: the tab. If he went left, he might have might 68 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: not be with us today. 69 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: If he'd gone to church, he'd be dead, but he 70 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: went to the tab down on the Cartain side. Of course. 71 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: The Russell Street Police Headquarters is an iconic building, cream brick, 72 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: sort of very New York sort of building really, and 73 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 2: it's at the corner of Russell and La Trobe and 74 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: its opposite the old Melbourne Magistrates Court, and it's very 75 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: close to r MIT, the original r MIT campus and 76 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: was the police center, the heart of the Victoria Police 77 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: for decades until they moved most of their operations down 78 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: and killed the road before building the new one in 79 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 2: Spencer Street. 80 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: So we were the only newspaper people working at the 81 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: time and had we had already written the lead story 82 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: for the first edition of The Herald, which was of 83 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: course the mandatory Easter Road Blitz story of course, and 84 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: from memory, there wasn't a lot of other stuff going 85 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: on that morning, so you know, we were kind of 86 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: sitting around. It was getting close to knockoff time for. 87 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: Us and looking forward to Big East to break, the. 88 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: East to break, because we wouldn't have been working on 89 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: the Friday, whereas the other morning boys they would have 90 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: come in on the Friday for the Saturday paper. And 91 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: it was it was just gone one o'clock, just ticked over. 92 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 2: I was. 93 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: I was actually on the phone to an assistant commission 94 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: for traffic to tee him up for the Monday paper, 95 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: to get him to be ready for us to get 96 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: all the figures and what was happening over the recent 97 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: road road road tops, etc. And then all of a sudden, 98 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: all hell broke loose. 99 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: Describe what the sound and the feeling the whole building 100 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: seemed to shake. 101 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: I thought, petrol tanker has hit this corner of this building, 102 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: right near where we exploded, and then exploded, and the 103 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: building up there was We had light fittings come crashing 104 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: down around us. The plaster pieces came around, and dust everywhere, 105 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: and this noise, this this huge explosion. And I hung 106 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: up from from the assistant commissioner, and Brian had had 107 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: left to go and get his Easter haircut, and so 108 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: he was sort of on his way back from his 109 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: lunch break, and so there was only Greg and I 110 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: there and our police rounds driver. Back in those days, 111 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: she actually had a driver. His name is Shepard. 112 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 2: Shepherd, well regarded by some as wise of the most 113 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: police rounds reporter. 114 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: Yes, he knew his way around Melbourne every lane way. 115 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, lovely fellow. 116 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a great, great bloke and he had 117 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: just put the kettle on and I thought that hit 118 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: my mind. I thought there's been an electrical explosion because 119 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: he's just top of the kettle on. Anyway, this massive explosion. 120 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: So Greg and I just took off out the door 121 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: and there was glass and smoke and the smell of 122 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: Jelly Knight in the air. 123 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: You could just smell that was explosive. 124 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: It could smell explosives. I knew then that it was. 125 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: You knew that. 126 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: I knew that something had blown up in the street. 127 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: Now, you were a young blog originally from Seymour area 128 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: and Heathcott and the Shepherdon. Your dad had worked on 129 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: the railway. So did you have some idea what exploses 130 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: you smell like? Because yes I did because of that. 131 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: Did yeah? 132 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: Yeap just just knew that that smell right with a gunpowder, 133 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: I guess. And we Yeah, So we just raced out 134 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: into the middle of the street. 135 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 2: And in the middle of the street there was something burning. 136 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: There was a ball of flame about. It was probably 137 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: about forty meters away from us. 138 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: Did you know what it was? 139 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: No idea, I had no idea what was going on. 140 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: Saw this ball of flame and it kind of jumped, 141 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: it jumped over a car, the bonnet of a car 142 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: that had stopped on the street. I learned later that 143 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: was Angela Taylor. 144 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: The burning ball was burning a still living young police. 145 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: Young police woman who was twenty one years twenty one, 146 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: and yeah, she had just come out of the magistrate's 147 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: court and she was heading across towards the Russell Street 148 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: Police complex and she was getting lunch for the other 149 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: for the rest of the crew over and looking after 150 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: the courts and she she walked straight into it. She 151 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: just walked straight towards that car and it just killed well, 152 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: she died. 153 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 2: She lived later, yeah, about three weeks later. It was 154 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: an horrific thing. It was. It was. 155 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: And there were other explosions happening as well, we thought, 156 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: because back in those days you could park along Russell 157 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: Street right outside the police building, so there were cars 158 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: right along the street. And we saw this car that 159 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: had blown up. But we thought, oh, there's another exploder, 160 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: there's another car's gone. But it turned out it was 161 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: the leftover sticks of Jelick Knight that had been and 162 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: blasting caps that were going. 163 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: Off, going off on one after the other. Yeah, the 164 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: big one had been a bunch of them taped together. Yeah, 165 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: but about one. 166 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: Hundred and fifteen sticks of Jelick Knight. 167 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: Apparently, and there were some stray ones that yeah, yeah, okay, 168 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: it's a fairly crude job, I believe. Yeah, all attached 169 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: to a clock which was weighed down by a block 170 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: of timber that defen a bit of red gum yep, 171 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: and that will form part of the big forensic investigation 172 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 2: down the track before they finally caught up with these crooks. 173 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 2: What did you do next? 174 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: Next? I had to had to run back into the 175 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: office and jump onto the phone to let the chief 176 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: of staff know that there's been a massive explosion outside 177 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: the Russell Street Police Station, police headquarters because it housed 178 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: all the squads and the D twenty four Commune occasions 179 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: and everything at that time, as well as being an 180 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: all running police. 181 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: Station, it was a nerve center, wasn't It was absolute's 182 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: where everyone, all the all the top detective and everything 183 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: were based there. 184 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: So I had to ring ring up. 185 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 2: It was a rock song by the Sports What did 186 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: the Detectives say? And it mentions Russell It was part 187 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: of Melbourne's focalore. Yeah, it was. 188 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: The Herald was printed in four editions a day. There 189 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: was the first one that came out around about eleven 190 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: thirty twelve o'clock. Then the second one was due to 191 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: go onto the presses about one o'clock, about at the 192 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: same time this thing went off. So it was just 193 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: starting to rumble on the presses down at Flinders, down 194 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: at Flinda Street, down in the basement there, and we 195 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: had to tell them to stop the presses. I've never 196 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: never said that before in my life. In a long 197 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: career in journalism, I never got the chance to stop 198 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: the presses. 199 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 2: But you did this time, and they stopped them. 200 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: And they did. They said, you know, what's what's going on? 201 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: I said, been a massive explosion. Explained it, do them 202 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: and they said, right, get what you can and jump 203 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: on the phone as quickly as you can because we 204 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: need this to go into our second edition. So both 205 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: Greg and I then jumped on the phones and dictated 206 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: our stories to this magnificent bunch of copy takers that 207 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: were based at Flinda Street. And they could they could 208 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: type as quickly as we could talk. They were so 209 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: good at what they did. But their spelling was better correct. 210 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 2: Correct, And yeah they were because the Herald and all 211 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: newspapers probably still do. They had reporters based at Russell Street, 212 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: the town Hall, the trades hall. Your age. They don't 213 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 2: have reporters at any of those places that day, not 214 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: anymore because this century that hasn't happened. 215 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: I've been out of the game for a while. But yeah, 216 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: so we had people, you know, like trades everywhere and 217 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 1: state Parliament. Of course there was a big press cos 218 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: we still have that. 219 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 220 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, they and these girls were vital to all 221 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: of us for taking our copy, spelling it properly and 222 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: getting it through to the editors. 223 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: So just so our listeners get it. And of course 224 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 2: most of them are old enough to remember those things. 225 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 2: You were dictating a story you'd already written with a 226 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 2: typewriter or even rough notes on your notebook. This dictating 227 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 2: to somebody who's wearing set of headphones and a typewriter 228 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: and there banging it out there, bang it out a 229 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 2: kilometer away from where you were s Yeah, exactly. 230 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't have time to hit the typewriter. We 231 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: just had to off the take, take a few notes, 232 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: and it was all off the top. 233 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: File off the top of those wonderful words, A great 234 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 2: skill for those that could do it. 235 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: And of course then we had to then race back 236 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: out and continue to witness what was going on because 237 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: there were people screaming, there were people calling for help. 238 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: And I remember Neil, our driver. Last I saw of him, 239 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: he was carrying a young woman who was bleeding fairly 240 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: heavily around the corner away from Russell Street because we 241 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: didn't know what else was going to happen. Yeah, that 242 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: was the last I saw of him for the day, 243 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: so he obviously was there helping other people to his credit, 244 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: great man and Greg and we just ran back out 245 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: into the street and just tried to witness there was 246 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: there was people bleeding, of people. I saw a young 247 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: police officer being comforted by a woman, a police woman, 248 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: on the steps of Russell Street, and she kept on 249 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: telling him don't look at your legs, don't look at 250 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: your legs, because I looked at his legs and I 251 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: could see the bone on his lower leg protruding. 252 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, the bone. 253 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: And there are other people running around that. There was 254 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: other policemen in uniform, some who'd never fired a side 255 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: arm in anger, running around with their Repolice issue guns 256 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: out what was going on. 257 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: No one knew. 258 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: It was such a shock, and the shock was to 259 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: a degree that I've never forgotten it. No, And I 260 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: think the piece that I wrote in the Sunday paper 261 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: just the other day, yeah, caught that that and that 262 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: was why I wrote it. I thought, forty years on, yes, 263 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: let's remember what happened and let the readers of the 264 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: Herald Son know what it was like, what it was 265 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: like back then to be there, to actually be on 266 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: the spot. 267 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 2: And really it's not an experience unique to you, but 268 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: it's unique to only a few dozen people were really 269 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: as close as when you were near as close as 270 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: you were, because it happened within meters. 271 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: Of the door of that old press exactly. 272 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: Now. I know you've already said this, but the morning 273 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 2: newspaper people weren't there. You were really bit of a 274 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 2: skeleton crew. Yes, we we were. Normally there'd be the 275 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: age people and the Sun people there as well. 276 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: They would have just come in. They would would have. 277 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 2: Just come in and they'd be sitting and I remember 278 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: doing this for one of those papers, sitting under a window, 279 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: a normal old glass window with thin, nasty glass facing 280 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 2: Russell straight. Now, what happened to those windows? Bill? 281 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: During one of the times when I was running backwards 282 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: and forwards, I thought I'll just have a quick check 283 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: into their offices and just in case there was someone there. 284 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: And as I had a look in through their doorway, 285 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: there were shards of glass fifteen centimeters long sticking out 286 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: from a cork noticeboard right behind that desk. 287 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 288 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: So someone would have been sitting there. 289 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 2: Would have taken their head off, would have taken. 290 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: Their head off, It would have been cut ribbons, terrible 291 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: and that that really shocked me as well, because I 292 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: thought if there was someone there, they could. 293 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 2: Well have died. 294 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because it was head height. You know the window. 295 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: What's that there? 296 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: Many We used to have that office, Yes, and we 297 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: got moved down a little corridor sort of in behind 298 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: that office. 299 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, is that how it worked? 300 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, And the ABC was in They were in a 301 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: little nor between us a small bathroom for a large toilet, 302 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: that's right. 303 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: And it was amazing to some extent. You were lucky 304 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 2: to be. 305 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, we lost our view, but we probably had our 306 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: lives safe, good Lord, because yeah, draw yeah, absolutely. 307 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 2: It was young Greg was working with you. 308 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Greg a very lovely fellow. 309 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 2: Yes he was. 310 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: He was a really a very smart young jur. 311 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 2: Yes, very nice fellow. Of course. He belonged to a 312 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 2: large family. The Kerr family were well known in Melbourne, 313 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 2: connected heavily with Carlton Football Club. His father was Laurie Kerr, 314 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 2: who a well known ex Carlton player and businessman and 315 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 2: public relations expert and a kingmaker in fact in politics 316 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 2: and football I think. But that's sort of beside the 317 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 2: point of and Brian, Brian Adam on the day in 318 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: christ he was walking back, as you said, from having 319 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 2: a haircut and he look, you know, the lights changed 320 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 2: or didn't change for whatever fortune to walk across the 321 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 2: street in your head, he caught the green pedestrian light 322 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: and crossed across. He would have been hit by the way, 323 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: would have been hit them too, and probably killed by it. 324 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 2: As it happened. He was far enough back that it 325 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: did not injure him physically, but it was a terrible 326 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: shock to him. And I know that he was in 327 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 2: a fog like a war fog afterwards, and that he 328 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: was sat down by Stephen Price, Steve Price, who was 329 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 2: then i'll say chiefs of staff for the Herald who 330 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 2: sat him down and said, right now, I'll write it 331 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: for you and type it, but you tell me you'll 332 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 2: want to remember yeah, you know, coming out of the barber, 333 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: walking up the street and price. He had to write 334 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: it for him for him because he was so shaken. 335 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 2: He was naturally of course, he was a person who 336 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 2: was in shock, in shock, which didn't stop us getting 337 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 2: the story. But I don't think it did him a 338 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 2: lot of good. 339 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: No, I don't think it did it. I think it 340 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: affected him pretty badly to the point where he left 341 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: the newspaper industry ultimately and moved to the Northern Territory 342 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: and going away from Melbourne and moved away from Melbourne. 343 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: I don't know whether it had anything to do with that. 344 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: He might have had a job offer all what a 345 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: lot of people did leave. 346 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, now you're the rest of your day. You you 347 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: didn't really have time to take it all in because 348 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 2: you were stay busy filing stories. Yeah, tell us about that. 349 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: We we just had to continue to take our own notes. Ye, 350 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: put it all into our head and then just continue 351 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: continue filing update, update, update all the time. And at 352 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: one stage we were evacuated from the building by the 353 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: Special Operations Group. They came in all armed, and I 354 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: think they were a bit surprised by the fact that 355 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: we were we were there. I don't know whether they 356 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: knew that we had these offices. They may not have. 357 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 2: Anyway, they were pretty basic in those days. Yeah, they 358 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 2: were just black, black, armed black pajamas. Yeah. 359 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: Anyway, they gave us a bit of a fright when 360 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: they came storming in and and got us out of 361 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: the building. And so then we had to then find 362 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: phone boxes, continue filing us stories. 363 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 2: Oh, I see mobile phones. Then no computers, so you'd 364 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 2: have to fish out ten cent coins and all the 365 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: rest of it. 366 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,479 Speaker 1: I've always had a pocket full of coins, as you know, 367 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 1: you would have had to have. 368 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: And so this went on all afternoon. 369 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: All after from from one o'clock through to six o'clock. 370 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: We made our way back to the office, to the 371 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: main office in Flinders Street and headed straight for the 372 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: Phoenix Hotel, where we knew that most people would be. 373 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: Just because there was a lot of journals thrown onto 374 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: this story. After we file our initial peace, a lot 375 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: of journeys were sent out of the office and to 376 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: walk around the area. 377 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 2: The Phoenix of course was the pub very close to 378 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: the old Herald and Sun building. It was facing Flinders Street, 379 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: not far from the corner of Flinders. 380 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: And Flinderson Exhibition vision. 381 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 2: And it was owned in the before the it's not 382 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: at this stage, but earlier by lou Richards the Football 383 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 2: and it was known to the Lose. 384 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: Lose that's so we knew it. 385 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 2: And you'd have to walk up those thin stairs, stick 386 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 2: carpet to get to the bar with drink, and that 387 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: was where you sort of decompressed. 388 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: Yes, that that that's where it was that night, headed 389 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: up the stairs. 390 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: What did you drink? Pots of beer? 391 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, k didn'apped to buy one. Chief of staff was there. 392 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: He was He was put his hand in his pocket 393 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: for the crew, for the crew and sat us down 394 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: at the table. There was me and Greg and Brian 395 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: and and it was of staff then Hugh Crawford. 396 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 2: Very good. 397 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: He was a very good a good chief of staff 398 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: and good journo too, because I think he operated out 399 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: of a Sydney office for a long time and then 400 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: then came down. I know Price he was chief of 401 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: staff some stage, but I don't know whether Hue was 402 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: replacing Price. He at the time but so they set 403 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: you down and had plenty of beers. Yeah, did you 404 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: start to feel it? 405 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: Did it? Yeah? He started? 406 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: Then it hit me. I was running on adrenaline up 407 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: until up until I got up there, and no food, no, no, no, 408 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: And yeah, they put beers in front of us, and 409 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: and then you know, people would come up and talk 410 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: to us, want to know what had happened, and pat 411 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: us on the back for a job well done, yep, 412 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: And Brian and I just fell into each other's arms 413 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: cried really yeah, not ashamed to say it. And we yeah, 414 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: so we just held each other for a while and 415 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: then you know, then then we kind of decompressed a 416 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: bit and talked about it, and you know, just recalled 417 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: what had happened and why it happened. 418 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: And how long before you got home. 419 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: There's another couple of hours before I got home, be dark. 420 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 2: By then it was dark and taxi. 421 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: I think I think they did actually concede a taxi 422 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: ride for us this time. They did, because they didn't 423 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: always do that. You would often be out on a 424 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: story and you'd jump into a phone box and file 425 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: your yarn, and then the church that start would say, well, 426 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: there's a tram stop nearby, just jump on the tram 427 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: come back to the office. But this day they actually 428 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: sent us home in a. 429 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: In a cab. Where were you living then? 430 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: We were in box Hill. Then my wife Dawn, and 431 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: our two very young children, Connor our daughter, and Liam, 432 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: our son. She was about five and he was about two, 433 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: I think, and they the kids kids love watching play 434 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: school in the afternoon because they turned the TV on. 435 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: They'd been out and went to turn the TV on 436 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: and called out the mum, play schools and on They've 437 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: got some news thing happening. Of course they were. They 438 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: were covering the the bomb in the A B C. 439 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: And then Dawn saw that this was happening. And then 440 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: shortly after that at Russell Straight and Short, she got 441 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: a phone call from a mate of ours who knew 442 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: that I was working at Russell Street and she said, 443 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: is Bill all right? And Dawn then Dawn on her yeah, Jess, 444 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: I better make sure that because he works out of 445 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: Russell Street. So she contacted the Chief of Staff, Secretary B. 446 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 2: Warren. 447 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: She ran ran the entire office. 448 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 2: She was a World War Two veteran. She was Warren 449 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 2: and she had a lot of character. She was strong. 450 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: Wills she very strong. Will you didn't cross her, would 451 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't be allowed to. I was back in the days, 452 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: because she was the one who told all the female 453 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: journals that you work for the Herald, and you don't 454 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: wear trousers and that sort of thing. Yeah, there's all 455 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: those skirts and dress. Gives them advice about them and yeah. 456 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: So and so Dawn found out from her, of course 457 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: that she I was okay, okay, and he's filing and yeah, yes. 458 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 2: Please don't. He can't call you. I was too busy 459 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 2: and you got home in a taxi yet, you know whatever. 460 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: It was after the kids were in bed, I suppose yeah, yeah, 461 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 2: and what happened. 462 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: Again, Dawn came and opened the door and I just 463 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: fell into her arms. And then I think that's when 464 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: it dawned on us that I was pretty close that day. 465 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: Anything could have happened, you too, could have been a 466 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: lot worse matter of meters, yeah, read us, some serious injury, 467 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: that's right, or death. 468 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, he could have lost legs. 469 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, cut, bleeding, bruised, whatever, Yeah it was. 470 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 471 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: So so that was that was a bit. 472 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 2: Tearful as well for both of us, of course, because 473 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 2: she she was grateful that I was able to walk 474 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 2: through the door that night. We're not doing anything here 475 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: about PTSD, which was a term not probably known back then. 476 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 2: We didn't use that post traumatic stress. 477 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: There was certainly wasn't any professional help for that sort 478 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: of thing back then. 479 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 2: Did it Did it affect you for a while? Oh? 480 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it did, just I was fearful for a long time. 481 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 2: Yep. 482 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: If on that day, one thing I did notice was 483 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: every street tree was stripped of leaves, and as autumn 484 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: continued along, if any leaves fluttered to the ground in 485 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: front of me, I would I would jump back righted itself. 486 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: It had yet the little images. 487 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: Even though there's no great logic to. 488 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: That, nobody none at all. It was autumn anyway, so it's. 489 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 2: An automatic reaction. Yeah, the danger, Yeah, it gets imprinted, 490 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 2: it does. 491 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: And thunder would set things off again, big lad claps 492 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: of thunder. Very fearful of that, yep. And any expert 493 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: even backfire and cars backfire for years. That for years. 494 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: It was for years, and you know, ultimately you get 495 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: over it and and things move. 496 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 2: On without Did you ever dream about it? Yes? And 497 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 2: still do really, I still do. Yeah, is that a fact? 498 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 2: Have you ever discussed this with other people that were there, 499 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 2: like Greg or No, No, I haven't, I haven't. I 500 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 2: lost contact with them down the trap because they used 501 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 2: to change over the police rounds pretty regularly, so you know, 502 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: I would get transferred to a different section or go 503 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 2: back to the main office for general news, and the 504 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 2: other guys would go somewhere else, So we kind of 505 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 2: didn't get much chance to decompress. And I often wonder 506 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 2: how they're going and do they still remember it as 507 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 2: clearly as I did. Yeah, that'd be interesting too. I 508 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 2: hadn't realized the out Greg for some reason, but I 509 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: knew about Brian because for somebody, I reckon, I saw him. 510 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 2: I don't know why I know this man, I reckon. 511 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: I saw him later that day or something, and he 512 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,239 Speaker 2: was in the office and very he was shaky. He 513 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 2: was shaky. 514 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he made his way straight back to 515 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: the office. Yeah, that's what he might He might have 516 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: jumped into a phone box and mentioned it to the 517 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: Judi of staff as well, and then yeah, he would 518 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: have been told, that's what I come to, get back here, 519 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: get back here, and they sat him down, and as 520 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: you say, that helped helped him write his. 521 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 2: Story the first person person. Yeah, it was really something 522 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 2: I've always been grateful I wasn't up at the round, 523 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 2: which I'd left by then, but yes, you had, I 524 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: still been working there. You know, if it had been 525 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 2: a different day, you have the week, et cetera, if 526 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: all the things. It's exactly when you'd step onto the 527 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 2: street to go and get saying to eat, it was 528 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: whatever was that time of day when you walked down 529 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 2: the streets. 530 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, anything could have happened. Yeah, it was a terrifying day. 531 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: And of course we've seen bad things happened since, but 532 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,239 Speaker 2: to actually happen in Melbourne. 533 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: That's that's probably what shocked us as much as anything 534 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: This happened in this Yeah, it was a big, busy city, 535 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: but we'd never experienced that sort of thing. You know, 536 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: people who had a rust I called it a rusted 537 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: on hatred of police. Yes, to actually decide that this 538 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: was what they were going to do. They were going 539 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: to take as many people down as they and as 540 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: many coppers down as they could. 541 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 2: This was really, i mean, historically speaking, one of the 542 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 2: biggest things, you know, since the Kelly outbreak, the Kelly 543 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 2: shot in free policemen. Yeah, yeah, Stringy Buck Creek way 544 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 2: back in seventy eight or a year it was, Yeah, 545 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 2: and just over a century later here were going has happened. 546 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's not often that we have something of 547 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 2: that scale strike in the nineteen twenties. Yes, that's right, 548 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: violent and scary. Yeah, but in a civil situation, non 549 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 2: not war exactly. Frightening. 550 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's just a taste of terrorism, wasn't it. Yeah, 551 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: it was a taste of terrorism, That's that's exactly what 552 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: it was, domestic terrorism meters away from from where we 553 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: were sitting, and their aim was simply to they wanted 554 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: to drive that car loaded with this bomb. You might 555 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: remember there was a driveway. 556 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: So this could have been worse. Yes, what were they 557 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:43,479 Speaker 2: what was their intention? 558 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: Their plan was to drive it up this driveway off 559 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: Russell Street into a. 560 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: Courtyard inside the basic inside. 561 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, basically a courtyard between the police buildings, the old 562 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: Russell Street police buildings which are still there. 563 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, those brick ones are quite beautiful. Really in their way, 564 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 2: they had this little lane way separating the two buildings. 565 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. 566 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: It was a bit of a courtyard which was which 567 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 2: we didn't go into really because. 568 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: Because it was only forever zone for the police cars. 569 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 2: It was private yea. And they wanted to drive in 570 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: there and put the carriage. 571 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, but they had a big iron gate and it 572 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: was shut. So plan B was then to cart out front, 573 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: out the front. 574 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 2: I see. 575 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: So it could have could have been a whole lot worse. 576 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: The fact that one police officer tragically died it was 577 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: a miracle. Yeah, there weren't any There weren't anymore that 578 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: just with the glass that was flying around on its own, 579 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: A lot of people got injured by that. It broke 580 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: glass for a block a block, the whole city block. 581 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: Just about every building in that block their window shuttered. 582 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: That's how violent that that first last Yeah yeah, sonic, 583 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I'll never forget it. And so that plan 584 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: was thwarted, to thank God, because that could have been 585 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: a whole lot worse, because you know above that that 586 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: car was all the officers that we can't mention all 587 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: the names of those who were undoubtedly involved and served 588 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: time over it, and another one beat the charges that went 589 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: on a peal, I think, and so on and so forth. 590 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: But one person who we can talk about is the 591 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: late Stan Taylor. Now Stan Taylor was an old crook. 592 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: He was an old crooked, old crooker and what police 593 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: call a good crook. 594 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 2: He was. He'd been around a long time, he'd done 595 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 2: all different crimes, knew his way around the system. But 596 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 2: Stan Taylor and fairly intelligent and a good a good 597 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 2: con man as well as a violent. 598 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: Man, yes, and a lot of it. He was certainly 599 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people. 600 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 2: In the acting profession knew him well, and I can 601 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: remember talking to one of them. She said he'd stand 602 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 2: did up my kitchen. He was a good, you know, 603 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 2: a good joiner and he renovated her kitchen. Had some 604 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 2: mother he did have some skills. Now, he was a cynical, lying, 605 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 2: evil piece of work, but you know, he had a 606 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 2: degree of raffish charm. He could tell the wide people 607 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 2: that he wasn't such a bad guy, and he'd sort 608 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: of got himself a bit involved as a as an 609 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 2: old crook who got out of jail with that sort 610 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 2: of Hector Crawford television industry that turned out cop dramas 611 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 2: like Homicide and Division before at Matt Block Police, and 612 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 2: he was one of those sort of characters that could 613 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: do bit parts, probably do a bit of set building, 614 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 2: that sort of thing, and he managed to manipulate things 615 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 2: so that he said himself up as some sort of 616 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 2: figure who said, look, I'm an old time crook who's 617 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,919 Speaker 2: given it away. I can help young blugs go get 618 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 2: on the right path, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 619 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 2: And I think he and others set up some sort 620 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 2: of wasn't boy Scouts, but they set up something where 621 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 2: they were trying to allegedly take young blugs who were 622 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 2: it's a juvenile delinquents and put them on the right path. 623 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 2: The reality was they used it as a recruiting ground, 624 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 2: and Stan Taylor hooked in with a couple of brothers 625 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 2: whose names we won't mention this some people will remember them, 626 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 2: and another young fellow maybe, and that he under the 627 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 2: guise of showing them a better way and to work 628 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 2: hard and be good citizens, he was actually corrupting them, 629 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 2: to teaching them, teaching tricks, bad stuff, very bad stuff. 630 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:04,720 Speaker 1: He had broken into an old mine northern western Victoria 631 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: a few weeks earlier. I remember writing a story about 632 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: this raid on a mine and JELLYG. 633 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 2: Knight being stoped right out in the Southern Malley or 634 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 2: the Northern Man. 635 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, birching out nothing else around, that's right. And 636 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: he'd robbed this mine of boxes of jellig Knight and 637 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: that's what he used. So he'd been planning this. 638 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 2: He was along with his young young recruits and he 639 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 2: used them as soldiers cat's paws. Yes, of course there's 640 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 2: no loyalty among these people, because there was a bit 641 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 2: of a scramble to be the first to put the 642 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 2: hand up and debby in others. And an old crook, 643 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 2: a very bad man, an old crook of stands vintage 644 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 2: or thereabouts. Yes, I think he got in for and 645 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 2: said I didn't do it, it was them, because I 646 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 2: think he'd been involved with them, Yes he had. He 647 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 2: pointed the finger and that enabled the police to prosecute 648 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 2: Stan Taylor and others. Whereas if Standard got in first, 649 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 2: clearly Stan Taylor would have lagged on this other old 650 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 2: crook because that's the way they were. And I think 651 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,919 Speaker 2: the idea was they were pulling robberies. Robberies, yes they were, 652 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 2: and the part of their evil plan was to blow 653 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 2: up Russell Street, yeah police station, and create a massive diversion. 654 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 2: So every copper in Melbourne was focused on that while 655 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 2: they were going to pull a bank robbery out in 656 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 2: the outer suburb. That's right, is that right? Yep? 657 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: That was Ultimately they apparently had sort of walked away 658 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: from the car after they parked it and walked away 659 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: from it, knew what knew when it was going to 660 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: go off, and they apparently pattered themselves on the back 661 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: the the fact that the job well done, job well done, 662 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: But they would have been disappointed in the end. They 663 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: only yeah, they only killed. 664 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 2: One terrible, terrible crime, the death of Angela Taylor, it 665 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 2: seems to me, is the most haunting aspect of it. 666 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 2: It really is. Anybody that we know you, I mean, 667 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 2: you were close to it. But I think Bernie Farmer 668 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 2: might have been Clark of the courts in those days, 669 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 2: later became Bernie the attorney criminal defense in those days, 670 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 2: a young clerk Clark for Darcy Dugan and other magistrates. 671 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,879 Speaker 2: And he talks about that day. 672 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, he cradled Angela and the pictures that he painted 673 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: were when he was interviewed, were awful. And there's another 674 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 1: man who'll never never forget that day. 675 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 2: And Bernie the attorney it burn it so it affected 676 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 2: a lot of people, some of whom we don't won't 677 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 2: even know. We don't know their names, but people are 678 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 2: working up and down that street in courts and in 679 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 2: the police station and other people, other officers. 680 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just coming out and going on their lunch break. 681 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 2: The old Melbourne jail, the police garage in there. All 682 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 2: sorts of people. 683 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, lots of Yeah, other officers down further towards towards 684 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: the center of the city. Just people wandering around, going 685 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: into cafes, they're getting their lunch. 686 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 2: And they'd be dozens of people that are exposed to 687 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 2: it in a sense, roughly like you were. 688 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll all have their own memories of it, 689 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: of course. Yeah. 690 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 2: It's an awful day, a sad chapter in Melbourne history, 691 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 2: sad and tragic and awful. But it was good for 692 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 2: you to sit down and write that piece for us, 693 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 2: for our readers, to remind them of what happened, and 694 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 2: to give an honest, firsthand description of it, and also 695 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: to make time to come in and talk to us. Yeah. 696 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: I was happy to be offered the opportunity. I'd written 697 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: the piece yep, with you in mind, yep, because I know. 698 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,439 Speaker 2: Loyalty to the paper, loyal Well, this is the son 699 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 2: of the Herald that's right. 700 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it's still called the Herald Sun, which 701 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: I like. 702 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 2: Well. On that note, billais we're going to wind it up. 703 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 2: But this has been one of the more interesting Thank you, 704 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 2: I hope so sessions for a while. 705 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: My pleasure, Andrew, thank. 706 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 2: You, thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday 707 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 2: Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia. Our producer is 708 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 2: Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more, go to 709 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 2: Heraldsun dot com dot au forward slash Andrew rule one word. 710 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 2: For advertising inquiries, go to news Podcasts sold at new 711 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 2: dot com dot au. That is all one word news 712 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 2: podcast's soul and if you want further information about this episode, 713 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 2: links are in the description.