WEBVTT - The tracker cop 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:06.320 She trailed actually to the suspects ours. She did go 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.560 by a trash can. The victim's purse was in the 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:13.800 trash can, which corroborated the trail, and then she went 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.239 to the suspects house where he was being with his 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:20.079 parents and did happen to be on parole as a 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:21.360 violent sex offender. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:26.960 The dog took you straight to the perpetrator and the 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.600 police went through the door and arrested him. I'm Andrew 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:33.640 Rule Business Life and Crimes. Today we have a very 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:37.559 special guest on Life and Crimes Doctor to use her 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:42.959 real title Kobe Webb and Doctor Kobe Webb is in Bend, Oregon, 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.960 just north of California, where she has spent most of 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:51.239 her working life. Doctor Webb, alias Captain Webb, was a 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:57.160 senior police officer in the Riverside County Sheriff's Department for 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:01.800 more than twenty five years. She retired fairly recently, but 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:06.120 she made her name in police work in various ways, 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:12.800 but mostly as a trainer and handler of specialist sent dogs, 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.240 dogs that can trail people or in fact trail anything 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.360 I think, And although she nowadays trains many other dogs 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.840 for other purposes. For many years she made her name 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:28.640 in California by training bloodhounds to do wonderful things like 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.040 find lost children, lost old people who might have dementia, 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:37.559 and also to trail fugitives and criminals. Welcome to life 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.600 and Crimes, Kobe. We're going to call you Kobe rather 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.720 than doctor Webb because we're fairly casual. Here. How's things 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:45.600 in Bend, Oregon. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.880 It's wonderful. It's a great place to retire. From California. 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:51.160 It's a light slower peace. 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.280 Tell me, is that where you grew up? You came 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:55.680 from Oregon originally? 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.960 Yes, I was born in Oregon and grew up in Oregon, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.960 and then I went down to southern California with my 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.960 mom right and in high school and after graduating, I 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.200 went into college there at the local community college before 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.320 continuing my education, but I went into law enforcement. 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:21.040 I see. And you formed an attachment to dogs and 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.680 learned about training dogs quite early in life. Is that right? 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:26.000 From preps? Your grandfather? 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:32.040 My family, My grandfather worked dogs. My dad also had dogs. 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.399 We've always and my mom we've always had dogs. 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:40.000 Right, So you grew up with dogs. And in the 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.320 United States, quite a lot of people associated with hunting 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:48.280 have variations on hound dogs, variations of the bloodhound breed, 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.079 and you were familiar with those and with field labradors 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:53.680 and others when you were young. Is that right? 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:58.880 Yeah, not the bloodhounds until later, yep. But I'm not 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.040 in favor of only the bloodhound. I'm in favor of 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:04.840 dogs with the drive. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:09.840 Two hunts, that's the big thing. They're working instinct. Now, Kobe, 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.840 you didn't join the Riverside Sheriff's Department immediately. You actually 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.800 joined a local police force first, did you not. 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.720 Yes, I joined with Palm Springs Police Department first, and 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:26.560 then I went to Riverside County Sheriff's Department, a larger 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.400 department with the ultimate goal of always being a canine hamber. 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:35.000 I see. And how soon before you got to use 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:39.480 dogs in your job as a deputy sheriff. Is that 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:40.640 what your title was then? 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.160 Yes, So as a deputy first you have to know 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.680 that job, that position, and then when you want a 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:54.120 special team, then you tested, then you're selected, and then 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:58.320 it usually takes about five years before you go to 0:03:58.360 --> 0:03:59.160 a special team. 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.520 And the early days, what sort of dogs were you 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.040 handling at Riverside. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:09.600 County At Riverside County I started the bloodhound program. However, 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:16.440 I was a patrol dog handler. I worked malawized shepherds. 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.720 I had four patrol docs out the department, and then 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.960 also I started the department's bloodhound program, right. 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.720 And is it true to say that before your intervention 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.839 or your innovation, that bloodhounds had not been used in 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.760 California as much as they had in the Eastern States? 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.159 And is it true that you went to the East 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:45.120 and learned from older police who had used bloodhounds in 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:49.280 the past in order to bring that knowledge back to California. 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:55.240 There were bloodhounds in California. Hammler's had owned the dogs. 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.480 Were trying to start up programs and trying to get 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:03.760 their agent Seeds to be a full time position. I 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.440 had the permission with my agency, which was great for 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.520 Innovation to be supportive of me when I brought the 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.240 proposal of adding a bloodhound due to all the missing 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.880 people we were having in the desert area, which is 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:23.760 a tourist area, Palm Desert, and that's where I proposed 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:28.719 the bloodhound, which was sent specific to follow that one 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:34.080 person sent to help our agency kind of lower some 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.640 of the time we were searching for missing people especially 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:43.520 with dementia. And once I had that approval, I had 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:48.000 to learn go find out about the bloodhounds, where to 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:52.760 get a bloodhound, a working line, and then I have 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.400 the support once I got it trained, and I did 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.600 go back east. I went to Colorado and also back years. 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:05.320 And when I did that and brought back the dog 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:10.599 with the foundation, the department said, prove that it's reliable 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.960 in our set and needed and they gave me the calls, 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.480 which was wonderful to show that the dog can meet 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.799 those criterias and we were successful on that where now 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:27.799 we had a full sorely full time bloodhound units. 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.680 Right, So tell us about that early time you had 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.600 some success. I take it with finding old people who 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.480 were lost and possibly children who were lost. And along 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:40.680 the way, of course, your dogs were getting or your 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:44.040 hounds were getting the sort of skills they needed to 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:49.240 follow anybody that you set them after sent and therefore 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.039 they could be used to find fugitives. I think one 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.520 of your early dogs, perhaps not quite your first one, 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.440 but perhaps one of your more famous hounds was a 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.280 bloodhoum bitch called Meggie Might. 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.960 That's correct. So even at the early stages, I did 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:10.280 track criminals also, yep, it would not be like homicide suspects, 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:15.120 but it was burglars, not as high profile crimes, just 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.040 to be able to show that the dog was an 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:22.480 asset and that it was reliable. And so we did 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:26.680 do missing people and criminal trucks at the beginning. And 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.560 then yes, Maggie was the one, the first bloodhoun I started. 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:35.080 She had an accident and passed away early, and I 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:39.560 had Maggie in training, and Maggie was the one that 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.200 really stepped up, and I was able to prove the 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:47.760 need for the dogs, especially saving time in resources with 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.960 direction to travel, and then we'd be able to locate 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.160 missing persons or suspects. But it was just a tool. 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:01.960 She's not the one thing that solves prime solely. It's 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:02.400 a tool. 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.840 True, I think Maggie made, from what I've read, was 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:12.720 instrumental in tracking in a fairly wonderful way a six killer. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.920 Early in those days, I think two and one or 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.280 two thousand and two, a fellow called Jackson, Is that true? 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:20.360 What was that story? 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.600 On that particular case? I was called upon. It was 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:32.240 a subject that was accused of attacking elderly women and violently, 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.360 and I was called upon to see if I could 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.559 track him after he just committed another event, and they 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:42.960 just wanted to know the direction of travel of him 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.240 coming in and out of this neighborhood so that we 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.760 could do a surveillance and get more investigative leads. And 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:56.760 Maggie ended up trailing on that case. As she trailed 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:01.280 actually to the suspect's house, she did go buy a 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.960 trash can. The victim's purse was in the trash can, 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.720 which corroborated the trail, and then she went to the 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.480 suspect's house where he was getting with his parents and 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.400 did happen to be on parole as a violent sex offender. 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:21.280 And the whole case opened up when we didn't even 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.760 expect it to either. We truly thought we were just 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:28.280 going to get how he's entering the neighborhood in exiting. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.720 But the dog, in its wisdom or its noos, you better, 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:37.439 took you straight to the perpetrata and the police went 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.240 through the door and arrested him and away he went 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:40.760 to jail. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:45.800 Eventually, well there was evidence there he didn't have time 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:49.079 to destroy. The last thing I think kind of expected 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.240 was the dog to be showing up early in the 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.800 morning and I think the big thing with the tracking dogs, 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.680 we had no information where who our suspect was, where 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:00.640 he was staying. Like I said, we were just trying 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.319 to figure out how he entered the neighborhood and then 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.079 we're out of house, which kind of surprised even us. 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.400 And that really kind of blew up the whole case 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.480 in a sense, and a good way of having that 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:17.680 evidence inside not destroyed and being able to go to trial. 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.280 Just to be clear, this offender, Jackson, he'd murdered one 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.280 old lady and had riped at least one other. That's true, 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:26.719 isn't it. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.600 That's what he was accused of. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.400 Yes, yeah, And I have. 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.920 Not the investigator. I was solely only the dog handler, 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.920 which makes it unbiased. I just deployed the dog and 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.880 work the dog and do not always know all the 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:45.760 facts of the case because I don't want to be 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.920 biased in the deployment of the dog. 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:53.040 Okay, Now, I think your success or Maggie May's success 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.600 in that case meant that the FBI reached out to you, 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.720 I think the following year, within a matter of months, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.520 because they had a very serious I think a kidnapping 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.679 and they needed some help and they reached out to 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.120 you and Maggie mate your dog, Maggie, I think you 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:15.280 gave her the scent of the suspected perpetrator offender. Is 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:15.600 that right? 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.319 We trailed from the house where the victim was kidnapped 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.600 by the suspect. It was the victim's house, and we 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.320 had a scent article of a potential suspect who I 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:30.520 didn't know. They gave me the sen item and they said, 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.840 we want to know if there's a trail from the 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:37.360 house with this sen item, and that's where the dog 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.880 did take a track and did go to the location 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.240 of a cabin, and that's where we entered the cabin 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:51.840 under exigent circumstances, thinking the victim might possibly still be alive. Ye, 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.719 and found evidence there in the cabin, such as there 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.320 was duct tape, There was numerous other items in the cabin, 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:05.160 and we gave Maggie break. We shut her down. A 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.840 little bit later, we started her back up on the 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:08.720 victim scent. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:11.400 You switched scents, yep, Yes. 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.160 We changed scents and we gave her the victim scent 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.240 in that area, and that's where she tracked down a 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:23.319 hill and gave a proximity alert in that area, there 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:28.520 was snow. We did not see our victim anywhere, and 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:34.160 that's when FBI was later called and their dog did 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:39.120 find the grave right underneath the snowpack, and that the 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.160 deceased victim was inside there and identified. 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:47.079 An astonishing tile of a tile of two dogs, two hounds. 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.280 But Maggie May was certainly one of your better bloodhounds, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.360 but not the only one. You handled several and you 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.760 trained many more, I believe, and then you showed other 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.319 people how to train bloodhounds to do do this important 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:05.120 work and other important work. Well, can you recall some 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.160 of the cases that stick in your memory and some 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.839 of the jobs you have helped with, both in California 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.840 and elsewhere. I think you went overseas at one time. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:22.160 Yes, I have started up programs and other agencies. As 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:28.479 for Maggie Alan, yes, she was wonderful. She worked other kidnapping. 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.720 She also worked Samantha running kidnapping, which is very dear 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.319 to my heart because it was a very difficult trail. 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:40.080 And she did help with direction of travel and where 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.559 we were able to gather more evidence, just for providing 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:48.839 that was significant. Where I'm still in contact with the 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:53.800 mother of Samantha that was kidnapped and murder things like that, 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.680 so you definitely get that relationship. And then yes, I 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:03.440 have traveled internationally working bloodhounds. However, I still have to 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.680 say it's not the breed. I have to always reinforce 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:11.160 that it's since specific. It's really the driver of the dog, 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:16.600 and that the dogs hunt skill to want to be 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:21.720 able to track and understand since specific. So I just 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.960 happened to be known for the bloodhounds. I was successful 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.880 with the bloodhounds, and now that's where I still train them. 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.320 But I do work with all breeds. 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.880 And within every breed, tell me if this is right. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.520 With every breed, you will find individuals that are good 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.800 at certain tasks and many other individuals that are not. 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.200 And I think anybody that breeds sheep dogs or race 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:49.320 horses or anything else will agree with that proposition. Do 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:53.479 you find that in your experience you've found certain bloodlines 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:58.520 of bloodhounds and other breeds that are particularly good because 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.600 they are well focused on the job, they want to work, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.240 they want to please the handler, and perhaps there are 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.360 other bloodlines that are not as successful as those ones. 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.680 Yes, I do have working line breeders that I do 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.480 work with when I'm looking for the dogs, do do 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.960 their past success and the success of the prior letter 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.680 meads that I watch and that I get to. Now 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.920 I do favor them because the genetics I kind of 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.760 know what I'm dealing with, so I do have that 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.040 that I do prefer. 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.760 Hypothetically, if someone from overseas, from Australia or New Zealand, 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.640 or Switzerland or Greenland came to you and said, we 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.960 really like what you're doing, we need to get track 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.200 of dogs to do exactly what you do with them 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.920 in the States, you could point to two or three 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:58.080 breeders in the States with genetics that would be superior. 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.440 Well, it's just been more of success rate. That's really 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.800 what I look at is that the dog success where 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:10.200 the dog's been deployed, the other dogs related and that success. 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:14.080 So we actually almost fight behind the list for the 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.560 dog to be pick of the litter. And yes, that 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.120 is what I do. Still to this day. I get 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.720 very picky. I want I want to be the number 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.960 one to pick the best pub that I believe with 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:33.280 what I'm seeing to be that working dog. So yes, 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.640 I did work with New York State Place, Maryland State Place, 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:42.920 many years of using the since specific filling dogs. They 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:47.840 do both use the bloodhounds, and I did follow their models. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.520 We'll put a hypothetical to you. The LAPD. We've all 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:56.520 heard of it. It's a famous police force, Los Angeles 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.840 Police Department. It now has its own unit or track 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.680 a dog unit, and I think you might have helped 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:05.760 set that up. Is that right? 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.480 Yes, I did help them start their program, help them 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.640 start with their breeders. They did the same methods as 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.359 I do, and they've been very, very successful. I actually 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.560 feel more like Grandma now when I get to watch 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:27.160 all these dogs and handlers doing excellent work with their 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.280 dogs and finding individuals. I do like when they find 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.360 the missing. That's my favorite. And then also I do 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.040 like the suspects being captured because a lot of times 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:39.399 it's closure for families. 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:46.120 Yes, indeed, finding lost children must be especially wonderful. 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.400 The children. A lot of times, if they're autistic anything 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.480 like that, they're not even aware that they're lost. It's 0:17:55.960 --> 0:18:02.679 very heartwarming, gratifying to know that they're safe and back home, 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:08.840 and the bloodhounds not intimidating. But you know that that's 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.960 the nice thing. In the United States, we have McGrath, 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.600 which is our crime fighter dog and it's a bloodhound. 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.800 So you put that together where there's cartoons and everything 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:24.000 with McGrath, and it's nice when the dog finds that 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:29.639 missing child. But I'm still gonna say again reinforcing you know, 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.439 some of the best dogs I've seen. One of the 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.160 best dogs truly was a Melwaw, one of the best 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:38.919 trailing dogs I saw. So I always have to go 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:44.600 back to it's more about being sent specific and training 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.800 with that and that drive of that dog been necessarily 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.240 the breed. Even though we've been successful with that breed, 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:59.440 it still goes down to that dog's dry that determines everything, 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:03.240 because you know, just because you see a bloodhound, I've 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.000 seen some that just want a hacking chair and hang out. 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:12.160 So it really goes back to that dog's drive. That 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.240 is number one. If I have that, we are. 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:21.439 Set because all dogs, virtually all dogs have the wonderful nose, 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:26.080 the old factory senses that can be used to trail, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.800 you know, pick up sense of anything, trail people, trail animals, 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:35.159 find truffles, do anything. Really providing you can channel that 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.080 ability the way that you can channel it, there is 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.400 some differences they're not between bloodhounds and some other breeds. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.960 The bloodhound is specifically a scent animal and will not 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.960 be distracted by seeing something. Is that true. 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.240 Yeah, we do use the bloodhounds more in the States 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.320 because we have noticed some of our other dogs will 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:01.560 go visual when they see somebody running, compared to if 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.840 the bloodhound's down, their noses down, they're tracking, They're focused 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.600 on that track and that's the only thing that they 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.119 care about. And we've seen where they can go a 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.360 little bit of a longer distance and a little bit 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:20.800 on an more of an age trail. But once again, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.760 it still goes by the dark foundation. It is the 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:31.000 dark trained for since specific that is the foundation of 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:31.560 the training. 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.240 Kobe, You've worked in the shop end of policing. You've 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:40.359 worked on homicides, assisting the coroner's office at Riverside County, 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.520 which of course is out of Los Angeles. It's a 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.520 very big, busy place. There's plenty of crime, plenty of murders. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.120 Over here in little Old Australia. We've had our share 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:55.119 of crime recently. One of the more notorious incidents of 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.359 the last year is that an offender shot dead two 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:04.359 policemen to police officers who were attempting to arrest him 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.760 up in a mountainous country district, not unlike your Oregon, 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:12.240 to be honest, very similar, high mountain snow, all that stuff. 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:17.800 This offender, having allegedly shot to police officers dead and 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.720 wounding a third, bolted into the bush, into the woods 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:27.399 as you might say, and vanished. And although there was 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:33.520 a massive search conducted by hundreds of officers, helicopters, all 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:38.199 the technology over many weeks after that, they did not 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.480 find any sight of him. Now I think they're now 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.760 satisfied that probably he has taken his own life, but 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.800 they have never been able to find his body, and 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:54.520 I think with every passing day it becomes less likely 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.360 that they will find his body. Taken those circumstances as 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:03.600 I've of at London, this was in late winter hea 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:07.399 last August, so it was cool, it was damp, it 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:11.520 was up in the hills. If someone like yourself with 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.600 your dog or dog's hounds had been called into that 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.480 scene that same day. This happened at ten thirty in 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:23.080 the morning, if you'd turned up there mid afternoon that day, 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.159 what is it do you think a good track of 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.720 dog could have done? At that scene. 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.600 Well, I'm not familiar with the case, no, and I 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.520 was not there. The first thing I would have done 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:37.280 is looked around to see if I could find a 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:40.399 shoe track or a sin it down that belonged to 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:45.880 the suspect, and as our agency deploys, would have been 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:48.840 one of the first resources out there so the scene 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:53.240 isn't trampled on, so that the scent is preserved, and 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.200 try to locate the trail leaving that scene and give 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.960 direction of travels so that we could put drones or 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:07.359 helicopter or something in the direction from that scene to 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.640 leap frog and be ahead of us. And our ultimate 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:15.520 goal is to track locating the subject. If the subject 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:19.600 got in a car, we would have been done. We 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.919 can't track behind the car, but we could least still 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:26.560 give direction to travel and know if a car west 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:28.439 park therea we could give you the area where the 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:31.919 tire tracks are or other evidence. You just don't know. 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:36.679 But it is a tool, just one more tool to 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:38.959 be used. But it has to be one of the 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:44.240 first tools. It cannot be days later. It can't, it 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.720 would not work at all. It's just one more resource 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:48.600 to be called upon. 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.399 It's seems that over here. We throw everything at it 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:55.199 except dogs, because we don't really have the dogs that 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:59.840 are good enough to trial anybody much the more general 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.120 purpose dogs, and they tend to be attack dogs. What 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:05.600 they do do after about a month usually is bring 0:24:05.640 --> 0:24:07.960 in cadava dogs to see if they can find a body, 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.399 and they do have those here by then you know, 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:14.560 it's all a bit late to be catching anyone alive 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:19.040 and kicking. But as you explain it, you could at 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:23.719 least point investigators towards one sector to look at and 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:27.159 eliminate others. You could say, well, this scent went in 0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:30.480 that direction, up that track and headed due north or 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:33.720 whatever it might be, and it didn't go southeast or west. 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:37.000 This is what you can do at a crime scene, 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:38.800 or your dogs can do all. 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:44.080 That's our goal. Now, it's how we deploy them. We 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:48.119 don't always need the finish. We need them to do 0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:52.200 the trail. Sometimes it's just to locate evidence. Sometimes it's 0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:57.200 just direction of travel, and if the dog is locked 0:24:57.240 --> 0:24:59.840 on the trail, we'll keep going. But we do so 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:04.320 resources up ahead above the dog because it is that 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:05.119 team work. 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:09.720 Yep. Another case, it's a real case, two years ago 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:15.159 exactly a woman here in a provincial city, on the 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:18.720 outskirts of a provincial city, went for a jog on 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:22.640 a Sunday morning into the countryside. She did not come home. 0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:27.320 She vanished. No one knew what, No one knew really 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:31.680 where she was or where she'd gone exactly. The searches 0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:35.320 were mounted for her, but not using any sort of 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:38.720 track of dogs, because again we don't really have them, 0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:41.719 and if they do exist, they don't use them. There 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:45.120 are volunteer dogs, but the police choose not to use them. 0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:48.359 So you know, dozens and hundreds of people go looking 0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:52.520 and tracking through the bush and creating five hundred different 0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:58.439 scent trails, and they found precisely nothing. Again, hypothetically, had 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:01.080 one of your dogs and handle have been brought into 0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:05.200 that scene on that same Sunday morning, this lady goes 0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:08.600 missing at seven am. If a dog had got there 0:26:08.640 --> 0:26:14.320