Speaker 1: From Sports Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven Am.
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton's announcement last month that he won't stand in
Speaker 1: front of the Aboriginal flag got just the kind of
Speaker 1: reaction he was likely after talkback minutes headlines, private agreement
Speaker 1: from some quarters, outrage from others. For Professor Marcia Langton,
Speaker 1: it was something else. She's lived through enough ganueries in
Speaker 1: this country to know the tactic she was seeing, and
Speaker 1: put in the context of Peter Dutton's record on Indigenous affairs,
Speaker 1: it felt fitting. She doesn't want him anywhere near the
Speaker 1: flag today, Professor Marcia Langton ao on would always mean
Speaker 1: for Aboriginal people if Peter Dutton becomes the Prime Minister.
Speaker 1: It's Monday, January twenty seven. Marcia, thanks for coming on
Speaker 1: seven am.
Speaker 2: Thanks very much for having me. Daniel.
Speaker 1: We've just lived through another Australia day. Can you describe
Speaker 1: what it's like to be Aboriginal in January in Australia.
Speaker 3: Well, I found over some decades now that the level
Speaker 3: of abuse towards Aboriginal people and me and you know,
Speaker 3: specifically ramps up during January.
Speaker 2: I lock my doors and stay inside mainly.
Speaker 1: Right and then so there's added context to this year's
Speaker 1: Australia Day, and that Peter Dutton announced recently that he
Speaker 1: won't be standing in front of the Aboriginal flag. What
Speaker 1: is your reaction when you heard that.
Speaker 2: A lot of.
Speaker 3: People think that he's coming out as a sort of
Speaker 3: mini Trump with these kinds of gestures, and we're supposed
Speaker 3: to be terribly upset and offended. But after all that
Speaker 3: he's said about us, especially during the Voice campaign, again
Speaker 3: most of it lies, well, I'd be offended if he
Speaker 3: stood in front of our flag. I'm not in the
Speaker 3: least concern that he won't stand in front of our flag,
Speaker 3: because nothing that he does or says diminishes the fact
Speaker 3: that our flag is a national flag, and that it
Speaker 3: has been used by Abergin people for over fifty years
Speaker 3: as an emblem of our self esteem, our ancient origins here,
Speaker 3: our long struggle for civil rights, and of course it
Speaker 3: references our history.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. I mean, can you tell
Speaker 1: me a little bit about the history of the Aboriginal
Speaker 1: flag itself.
Speaker 3: It's a very interesting history. So just a little bit
Speaker 3: about our flag. In very simple terms, the black at
Speaker 3: the top represents our people, the golden orb represents a
Speaker 3: new dawn as it was envisage back then in the
Speaker 3: early seventies, when people were imagining that we might have
Speaker 3: Indigenous rights and our civil rights recognized.
Speaker 2: The red at the bottom of.
Speaker 3: The flag represents the blood shed, the Aberginal blood shed
Speaker 3: during the Australian Wars. So Harold Thomas a Northern Territory man.
Speaker 3: He is one of the members of the Stolen Generations.
Speaker 3: He was one of several people who were involved in
Speaker 3: designing an Aboriginal flag. He claimed copyright whereas the others didn't.
Speaker 2: As a result of.
Speaker 3: Him claiming copyright, he then was able to commercialize that
Speaker 3: and he issued a number of licenses and so for
Speaker 3: over fifty years throughout Australia, Aboriginal people were using the
Speaker 3: Aboriginal flag, believing that it belonged to everybody.
Speaker 2: But then a few years.
Speaker 3: Ago people who were flying the flag they began to
Speaker 3: receive lawyer's letters demanding payment because Harold Thomas had licensed
Speaker 3: the flag to several non Aboriginal commercial entities who were
Speaker 3: selling the flag to make a profit.
Speaker 4: Laura Thompson began the free the Flag campaign when her company,
Speaker 4: Clothing the Gap, received a cease and desist order for
Speaker 4: printing the flag on clothes.
Speaker 2: Well, Laura join.
Speaker 3: And so this came to everybody's attention through the Free
Speaker 3: the Flag campaign, and of course complaints were made to
Speaker 3: the Australian government, and the Australian Government set up a
Speaker 3: parliamentary inquiry.
Speaker 2: I made a submission to it.
Speaker 3: One of the outcomes was that the Call of Government
Speaker 3: under the Scott Morrison government, and it was a cabinet
Speaker 3: decision a night that Peter Dutton was a member of
Speaker 3: that cabinet allocated twenty million dollars to buy from Harold
Speaker 3: all the rights in the flag. And technically the flag
Speaker 3: is property of the Call of And now as a
Speaker 3: result of the usual confusion about flags, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of nonsense being said. So this is, for instance, what
Speaker 3: Price had to say in The Australian just a few
Speaker 3: days ago, the Aboriginal flag is not a national flag.
Speaker 3: Then she goes on to say, if they actually knew
Speaker 3: something about the Australian flag, they'd understand that Abiginal people
Speaker 3: are represented through the Southern Cross. Well, of course most
Speaker 3: of that is completely untrue. Some Aberginal groups hold the
Speaker 3: Southern Cross to be sacred. But it's not true that
Speaker 3: Aboriginal people are represented by the southern cross in the
Speaker 3: Australian flag. And it's not true that the Aboriginal flag
Speaker 3: is not a national flag. Both the Aboriginal flag and
Speaker 3: the Torres State island flag are recognized in the Flags Act.
Speaker 1: So, just to be clear, the Aboriginal flag is owned
Speaker 1: by all Australians.
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed it is.
Speaker 3: It's owned by the Conwealth on behalf of all Australians
Speaker 3: and so to that extent it is a national flag.
Speaker 3: And Peter Dunton seeks to spike the usual January racism
Speaker 3: and use any disgusting measure he can to incite hatred
Speaker 3: against us and to humiliate us and now our ancestors.
Speaker 2: It is deeply offensive.
Speaker 1: Coming up after the break, Peter Dunton, select you out
Speaker 1: rage and any semitism and racism. Marcia, what have you
Speaker 1: noticed since the defeat of the Voice referendum in terms
Speaker 1: of changing attitudes towards Aboriginal people, culture and history.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, we have the very obvious examples that
Speaker 3: we've just talked about. Now, don't n price feel completely
Speaker 3: free to lie about Australian flags, to lie about the
Speaker 3: contribution of aber people to the nation and to humiliate us.
Speaker 3: He's writing on a resurgence of racism which he led
Speaker 3: during the Voice campaign, as did just Center Price and
Speaker 3: Warren Mundine. And of course this was a documented and
Speaker 3: I was one of the authors of an article in
Speaker 3: The Lancet citing the extraordinary rise of reports of racism
Speaker 3: against Aboriginal people to various bodies, including the Safety Commissioner,
Speaker 3: the Australian Human.
Speaker 2: Rights Commission, to the extent that the.
Speaker 3: Australian Government had to offer special funding for mental health
Speaker 3: support to the thousands of Aboriginal people who were abused
Speaker 3: and insulted by racists during the campaign.
Speaker 1: How much political knowledge do you think Peter Dunton can
Speaker 1: get out of his approach to Indigenous affairs.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a winner for him. And this
Speaker 3: is the problem. And you know, I haven't seen much
Speaker 3: in the Australian Meat pointing out this cheap, nasty racist
Speaker 3: tactic when Australia needs to pull together and create strong
Speaker 3: bonds of social cosion across all members of the Australian
Speaker 3: community of whatever ethnicity, religion or cultural background.
Speaker 2: So this is why I find his.
Speaker 3: Sudden conversion to being an advocate for Jewish Australians rather
Speaker 3: strange and hypocritical because he hasn't shown the same support
Speaker 3: for any other ethnic group apart from his own.
Speaker 5: This is not just an attack on the Jewish community.
Speaker 5: This is an attack on every Australia. And it's the
Speaker 5: Jews today who next? And if we look back through
Speaker 5: the course of history, when good people don't stand up
Speaker 5: and provide support to those who are in need, then
Speaker 5: the downward spiral continues.
Speaker 2: I mean, let's have a look at Dunton's history.
Speaker 3: He's said in twenty twenty two that there'd be a
Speaker 3: war with China.
Speaker 5: The only way that you can preserve pieces is to
Speaker 5: prepare for war and to be strong as a.
Speaker 2: Country and compared China to Nazi Germany in.
Speaker 5: A period very similar to the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 3: Now this alarmed the Australian Chinese community, but also the
Speaker 3: fact that he opened up the opportunity for his racist
Speaker 3: followers to attack Chinese people and they were attacked, as
Speaker 3: were African Australians, especially here in Melbourne. He demonized them
Speaker 3: and he claimed that they terrorized Melbourne so that nobody
Speaker 3: could go to a restaurant in Melbourne.
Speaker 5: Now people are scared to go to restaurants at a
Speaker 5: nighttime because they're followed home by these gangs. Home invasions
Speaker 5: and cars are stolen, and we just need to call
Speaker 5: for what it is. Of course, it's African gang violence.
Speaker 3: And of course we all started going to restaurants to
Speaker 3: prove that this was utter nonsense.
Speaker 2: He singled out Lebanese Australians.
Speaker 5: The reality is that Malcolm Fraser did make mistas takes
Speaker 5: in bringing some people in the nineteen seventies and we're
Speaker 5: seeing that today. And when you're.
Speaker 3: Saying that it was a mistake to take them in
Speaker 3: as refugees.
Speaker 1: I mean he's approached to any Semitism is a very
Speaker 1: strong one and adjusts one. But there doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: be any of that when it comes to other groups
Speaker 1: across the community. What do you put that down to.
Speaker 3: You know, he grew up in the Alchi Pedterson's Queensland,
Speaker 3: you know, the Elchipedson's Queensland was essentially in a part
Speaker 3: of state. People don't like that being said, but it
Speaker 3: was not until nineteen eighty four, when legislation was amended
Speaker 3: in Queensland that you know the separatist policies towards Abashel
Speaker 3: and Torres straight on the people were finally ended, and
Speaker 3: that is very late in Australia's history. It was the
Speaker 3: last removal of deliberately racist and separatist legislation. And I
Speaker 3: grew up in Queensland, so I know a lot of
Speaker 3: about this. The whole body of attitudes and beliefs that
Speaker 3: supported that regime is the context of Dutton's socialization. And
Speaker 3: of course he was a police officer in the Queensland
Speaker 3: Police Force. The development of his attitudes towards Aboriginal people
Speaker 3: growing up in Queensland and serving in the Queensland Police
Speaker 3: Force ought to be I think more thoroughly examined by
Speaker 3: the media during his pitch to become Prime minister.
Speaker 1: Well on that note, and finally, Marsha, what would a
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton prime ministership mean for Aboriginal people?
Speaker 5: We will start with a full audit into spending on
Speaker 5: Indigenous programs and Indigenous communities, and in Indigenous communities where
Speaker 5: drugs and alcohol are prevalent. We will reintroduce the cash
Speaker 5: List debit card for working age welfare receets.
Speaker 3: This is a just singled price announcement. She has no
Speaker 3: idea what she's taking on. She's brought into the Facebook racism.
Speaker 3: You know, aberg needs get billions of dollars and they
Speaker 3: imagine that, you know, we get that money in our pocket.
Speaker 3: Of course that's not the case at all. It's a
Speaker 3: construct which takes into account the proportion of all Australian
Speaker 3: funding that would go to indigenous services.
Speaker 2: In an ideal world.
Speaker 3: Of course it doesn't reflect reality because we don't actually
Speaker 3: get all of those services, so it's just a statistical construct.
Speaker 3: We know that there are abitinal communities with no sewerage,
Speaker 3: no potable water.
Speaker 2: Despite what she.
Speaker 3: Says insufficient housing. There have been court decisions against the
Speaker 3: Housing Department in the Northern Territory because of the abysmal
Speaker 3: state of housing there. So a proper audit of actual services,
Speaker 3: not fantasy figures, would show that abgeal people remain and
Speaker 3: I think it's over a third of our population remain
Speaker 3: severely disadvantaged by government funding and the outcome is inequity.
Speaker 3: Dutton has been a parliamentarian for a very long time,
Speaker 3: for over twenty years, and he's been a member of
Speaker 3: several cabinets. I mean he was in cabinet when John
Speaker 3: Howard's government instituted the Northern Territory Emergency Intervention during that
Speaker 3: time by sending in the military to the Northern Territory
Speaker 3: with no specific purpose other than to terrify average on people.
Speaker 3: That's the kind of measure that we can expect from
Speaker 3: Dutton and from Price, and our social and physical status
Speaker 3: will deteriorate dramatically, very quickly under a Dutton government.
Speaker 1: Favory's just around the corner. May it be a good Februarus, Humanasia.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Daniel.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, Senator Decenter Napanjibbe Price has
Speaker 1: been named as the Shadow Minister for Government Efficiency in
Speaker 1: a shadow ministerial shakeup. The role, similar to the US
Speaker 1: Department of Government Efficiency led by Elon Musk, will be
Speaker 1: responsible for a crackdown on wasteful spending. According to the
Speaker 1: Opposition leader, Peter Dutton, former Immigration Minister David Coleman was
Speaker 1: appointed to the Foreign Affairs role, beating our Deputy leader
Speaker 1: Susan lay. Lay had been vying for the role and
Speaker 1: at his party convention for the deputy leader to choose
Speaker 1: their portfolio and four female Israeli soldiers have been released
Speaker 1: and returned to Israel after being held hostage by her
Speaker 1: mass for fifteen months. In exchange, Israel released two hundred
Speaker 1: Palestinian prisoners from two facilities. The transfers, which were carried
Speaker 1: out over the weekend, were the second swall up in
Speaker 1: the first phase of the ceasefire deal. I'm Daniel James.
Speaker 1: This is seven am. Thanks for listening.