Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, today we're going to do something different. We're
Speaker 1: actually going to run a podcast back and it's an
Speaker 1: old podcast, and it actually came to my mind because
Speaker 1: I came across a clip on YouTube of Master She
Speaker 1: Heng Yee, who I had interviewed oh a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago now and he has turned into a sensation.
Speaker 1: He has half a million YouTube followers now and around
Speaker 1: a million Instagram followers. He is a thirty fifth generation
Speaker 1: Shaolin Monk and since twenty ten he's been running the
Speaker 1: Shaolin Temple in Europe. And in this podcast, which I
Speaker 1: just listened to again the other day, and it's a cracker,
Speaker 1: and we just talked about a whole heap of life
Speaker 1: lessons from the Shaolin way. I think you'll really enjoy this,
Speaker 1: even if you did hear it the first time, and
Speaker 1: if you didn't get in petreat Master she Hang Yee.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Mind, Body Brain Project podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello Paul Nice, and thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1: You're most welcome, and it's a real honor to have
Speaker 1: a Sharon Monk on the podcast, and not only a
Speaker 1: Sharon Monk, but a thirty fifth generation Shaolin Monk. So
Speaker 1: can you explain how that lineage system works of generations
Speaker 1: of shaolin monks.
Speaker 2: So if you look at the way how we are
Speaker 2: talking to each other, let's say, or how students relate
Speaker 2: to me and how I relate to my students, we
Speaker 2: talk in terms of a family system. So stifu or
Speaker 2: shiffho means you're the teacher or you're the father, and
Speaker 2: we may be not related to my students in terms
Speaker 2: of the same blood, sharing the same blood, but it's
Speaker 2: about sharing the same heritage and sharing the same art
Speaker 2: and culture. And this means every time when a student
Speaker 2: who was staying a very very long time with his
Speaker 2: shiffu also enters into the lineage and takes over the obligation,
Speaker 2: for example, to teach and also have his own students afterwards,
Speaker 2: this is the moment where you are actually entering into
Speaker 2: this system, so you become the next generation, in the
Speaker 2: moment where you have children, where.
Speaker 1: You have students, where you have students exactly.
Speaker 2: So, and yeah, that's actually quite the system how it is.
Speaker 1: M's that's very interesting. So thirty five generations, that's gotta
Speaker 1: be more probably five hundred years maybe something like that.
Speaker 2: Well, actually, the funny part is we are counting at
Speaker 2: the moment, it's the thirty fifth generation in my case,
Speaker 2: but we are already at the thirty sixth or thirty
Speaker 2: seventh generation in some cases. But if you would actually
Speaker 2: count back and go back in time, you would realize
Speaker 2: that thirty six generations of thirty seven actually is not
Speaker 2: even enough to return back to the source, which is
Speaker 2: like one thousand, five hundred years ago where the monastery
Speaker 2: was founded, okay. And the reason for that is that
Speaker 2: the counting of the lineages started much much later, yes,
Speaker 2: and it simply was introduced in order to get some
Speaker 2: type of structure right into into the system.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the first children didn't count, yes, but they
Speaker 1: technically exactly yes. Yeah, yeah, Okay, that's great. So tell
Speaker 1: me how do you how do you actually become a
Speaker 1: shaolin master? And what is your training like, how long
Speaker 1: does it take, what does the typical days training look like?
Speaker 1: And just talk as to that process a bit. Okay.
Speaker 2: So in my case, I grew up in Germany, but
Speaker 2: in a very very early age, with the age of four,
Speaker 2: my father actually decided for me that I need to
Speaker 2: join some just martial arts school.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So that means besides the fact of going to school.
Speaker 2: The only thing that I spent my time in was
Speaker 2: for very very long time and many years, just the practice.
Speaker 2: And I was interested also in seeing all the movies,
Speaker 2: and I had different idols m and I don't know
Speaker 2: if it was a character trade that time, but I
Speaker 2: saw something any type of movements that I like, and
Speaker 2: so I spent all my training time and tried to
Speaker 2: copy them until I was able to also do the
Speaker 2: different types of moves or whatever it was. So the
Speaker 2: initial beginning for me was mostly related really to the
Speaker 2: physical practice and just copy the movements and become flexible
Speaker 2: with the body, become strong with the body. And yes,
Speaker 2: this type of training I had for many many years,
Speaker 2: and just later on when I started to get a
Speaker 2: little bit older, this was the time when I got
Speaker 2: introduced also into the philosophy and into all the different
Speaker 2: backgrounds that go along or go together with the Shaolin
Speaker 2: martial arts. And this actually was the moment where I
Speaker 2: met the first Shaolin monks that came from the song
Speaker 2: Shan Shaolin Temple in China. Okay, So I started to
Speaker 2: practice Shaolin kung fu with another master with an early
Speaker 2: age already, but the first contact with the Shaolin monk.
Speaker 2: That was when I was around like twelve years fourteen years.
Speaker 1: Old, okay, And what martial arts did you do before that?
Speaker 1: What was the first martial arts you did?
Speaker 2: It was called Shaolin Green Dragon kung fu, so it
Speaker 2: was also a schoolIn style, but not the same direction
Speaker 2: like I practiced it today.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: It has the same origins, but it is not the
Speaker 2: traditional shaolin training that you have nowadays, and which is
Speaker 2: the most famous.
Speaker 1: And so how long did you train under the Shaolin
Speaker 1: kung fu under your master? How long did that process
Speaker 1: go for?
Speaker 2: So with my first teacher, I trained around eighteen years
Speaker 2: and after the first eighteen years, in between I met
Speaker 2: the Showlin monks, okay, and under their guidance, then I
Speaker 2: also spent the other almost twenty years.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh wow.
Speaker 2: So I always stayed within the field of shaolin mainly,
Speaker 2: but in between I had many excursions also watching into
Speaker 2: other systems, because I just think it's important to not
Speaker 2: be too fixed on one system. So you think that
Speaker 2: yours is the best of anything. There is simply no
Speaker 2: best system. It is just there are many systems which
Speaker 2: have advantages and disadvantages, and I think it's just good
Speaker 2: to observe and also.
Speaker 1: Learn from others.
Speaker 2: But Maine, my main road was always the showling.
Speaker 1: Way, showing way. Okay, so they I actually did one
Speaker 1: of your online You've got a lot of stuff that's
Speaker 1: online that's really quite cool. And I did one of
Speaker 1: your your chie gong and movements. I think it was
Speaker 1: a twenty minute session. So can you talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about chi gong and chi? Initially, so it's a
Speaker 1: it's a hard concept for a lot of Westerners to
Speaker 1: get their head around, but I know that chi is
Speaker 1: very important in Chinese culture and Chinese medicine, and particularly
Speaker 1: in Daoist medicine. Can you talk first of all about
Speaker 1: what chi is and then what is chigung?
Speaker 2: I think slowly it's getting even to me the understanding
Speaker 2: why it's always set in the Chinese culture to not
Speaker 2: try and define that word chi.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 2: So, but anyway, I think the.
Speaker 1: This is the question you always get asked that says
Speaker 1: that's the you shouldn't ask us.
Speaker 2: But I really think the advantage right now also in
Speaker 2: our conversation and the possibilities that we have nowadays, is
Speaker 2: that you have people that on the one side grow
Speaker 2: up with a very very strong influence from Asian culture,
Speaker 2: but at the same time also have a good understanding
Speaker 2: how in the Western the mentality is yes, And let's
Speaker 2: just assume that the chi is necessary for anything in
Speaker 2: this world to manifest, to form. Everything that has a
Speaker 2: form needs a certain amount of GI. Everything that is
Speaker 2: functioning needs chi. Everything that is alive is the expression
Speaker 2: of a type of GI. Sometimes we say when you
Speaker 2: are very very vital, when your body, your expression, your
Speaker 2: life is full of energy, is very vibrant. Then we
Speaker 2: also say this person has a lot of cheap, but
Speaker 2: also somebody who is like very weak physically weak mentally,
Speaker 2: maybe very depressed and locked. Such a person, we say
Speaker 2: not necessarily has less cheap, but it seems like it's
Speaker 2: not vibrant, it's locked or it is locked. When we
Speaker 2: talk about cheap, it expresses at something. It can express
Speaker 2: at something very vibrant, something very alive. But at the
Speaker 2: same time it can also express itself like not expressible.
Speaker 2: It's too weak to express, it's.
Speaker 1: Not coming out. Okay.
Speaker 2: Other traditions maybe say, yeah, this person has that special aura.
Speaker 2: He enters the room and you can feel something about him.
Speaker 2: How do we know or that there is something like
Speaker 2: this cheek because it is expressing as something. For example,
Speaker 2: this chigong practice, the twenty minutes that you were following,
Speaker 2: what's the purpose of this This chiegong exercise has different
Speaker 2: postures that you're taking in. Yeah, it has different postures
Speaker 2: the bardawe gin in that case, this chigong routine has
Speaker 2: eight different postures if you take it seriously, each of
Speaker 2: these postures has a different way of how it is
Speaker 2: expressing its power. The first exercise, for example, is called
Speaker 2: lifting or supporting the sky or lifting up the sky.
Speaker 2: Just imagine you put your hands up, but you do
Speaker 2: not have the intention that you are lifting anything. So
Speaker 2: that means your arms are up. But it's different if
Speaker 2: your arms are up and you have the feeling or
Speaker 2: you are creating inside yourself. Now there is something heavy
Speaker 2: above you that you need to support, so your body
Speaker 2: serves like a pillar. So when you know that your
Speaker 2: body serves like a pillar and above you is something
Speaker 2: very very heavy, then the alignment of your skeleton matters.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah, the alignment or the muscles that you
Speaker 2: are accessing matters. And if you have a good feeling
Speaker 2: for your body. What martial artists normally do. Everybody who
Speaker 2: practice martial art for a long time. Something that he
Speaker 2: gets is a very good understanding and awareness normally for
Speaker 2: their own body. So that means you have a good feeling.
Speaker 2: How do I need to align my skeleton, which muscles
Speaker 2: do I need to engage in order to not waste energy,
Speaker 2: but at the same time to serve as a very
Speaker 2: very strong pillar in case the sky would be really
Speaker 2: heavy and pushing on top of you. So there is
Speaker 2: a difference between just holding up the hands and having
Speaker 2: the intention also on the mind to support the sky.
Speaker 2: And in this case, in that exercise, I assume that
Speaker 2: sky would be heavy. Yeah, so this is why I'm
Speaker 2: going into the position align myself structurally and also intentionally
Speaker 2: in order to create that one posture which would give
Speaker 2: me the most feeling of having the power to support
Speaker 2: this sky now. And so this is what the chigong
Speaker 2: practice is teaching you, and what you are learning, you
Speaker 2: are becoming more sensitive for what is happening within yourself
Speaker 2: regardless of what you're doing. So chigong is not about fighting, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's about understanding your biological functions and mechanisms inside of
Speaker 2: you while you are practicing anything.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting you said that I used to do
Speaker 1: tai chi when I was in Scotland, I had a
Speaker 1: teacher of tai chi. I used to go to the
Speaker 1: classes and it took a while to get the feeling
Speaker 1: of the movements. But then when you started to feel
Speaker 1: the movements, you could you could feel that they were
Speaker 1: both both more and more intentional, more difficult, but also
Speaker 1: more energizing as well. And I noticed at the end
Speaker 1: of the class and when I started to get that
Speaker 1: little bit of feeling that that I felt like I
Speaker 1: had used up a lot more energy but also gained
Speaker 1: a lot more energy and felt much more refreshed. And
Speaker 1: so yes, it's it is really about that connection with
Speaker 1: the energy and the energy slow.
Speaker 2: Isn't it exactly? But also nowadays the chigung is an
Speaker 2: aspect of the physical development. Put it simple. That's why
Speaker 2: in the shouting temple there is no really that differentiation
Speaker 2: between on the one side to practice chigong and on
Speaker 2: the other side to practice come fu. Right, It's just
Speaker 2: it's somehow just turned out to be separated like this
Speaker 2: in nowadays world. So there are chigon classes and there
Speaker 2: are kung fu classes. Yeah, but the thing is you
Speaker 2: cannot practice kung fu without having internal energetic aspects. The
Speaker 2: difference is only you don't know about them because you
Speaker 2: don't pay attention to them. But it doesn't matter if
Speaker 2: you are lifting something, if you are punching, if you're pulling,
Speaker 2: if you're pushing, there is something energetically also happening inside
Speaker 2: of you. The question is only are you able with
Speaker 2: your full awareness to know what's going on inside of
Speaker 2: their And in the moment you're able to tap deeper
Speaker 2: inside and know what's going on, you can control yourself
Speaker 2: better and ultimately also increase the effectiveness of whatever exercises
Speaker 2: we are doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why when you say shallon masters, they
Speaker 1: do what seems to us normal people to be incredible
Speaker 1: fates because it is that deep connection with the movement.
Speaker 1: Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yes, It's also the ability to be focused and concentrated.
Speaker 2: If you know where your energy is going, you can
Speaker 2: just direct it wherever you need it. And just as
Speaker 2: simple examples, very famous are the breaking of the sticks
Speaker 2: for example, in a way, what matters in the moment
Speaker 2: of impact is the point of impact. So there is
Speaker 2: just one place or one area where that stick or
Speaker 2: that brick is going to get in contact with the body.
Speaker 2: And it's important that at this place nothing harmful starts
Speaker 2: to penetrate through the body. So you need a shield.
Speaker 2: You need a shield exactly at this place, right, So,
Speaker 2: and how do you create this shield with the power,
Speaker 2: with the focus, and with the concentration that in the
Speaker 2: moment of impact, all of your available energies that you
Speaker 2: were able to control inside of yourself is directed towards
Speaker 2: this point. This is one method for.
Speaker 1: Example, Okay, And and that whole idea of being focused
Speaker 1: and connected. It's not just in the physical movements within
Speaker 1: the martial art and the Charlain traditions. It really spills
Speaker 1: over into your life into mental states as well. So
Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about the five mental states that
Speaker 1: hold us back? And can can you talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that for the listeners? What are these five
Speaker 1: mental states that hold us back? And what can we
Speaker 1: do to fight them?
Speaker 2: I really really like the similarly between the way how
Speaker 2: a martial artist is training and the way how a
Speaker 2: martial artist, if he's able to integrate his virtues into
Speaker 2: the normal life, can benefit from this. What I mean
Speaker 2: by that is there is no martial arts skill that
Speaker 2: we are able to develop if you would not put
Speaker 2: any type of effort into your training. In order to
Speaker 2: get some martial arts skills, you need to suffer. You
Speaker 2: need to go through some suffering. You need to sweat,
Speaker 2: You need to push yourself. You need to know or
Speaker 2: explore the limits of your own body and also the
Speaker 2: limits of your own mind. Because many times we think
Speaker 2: I cannot make any more push ups, but somebody is
Speaker 2: going to be there to motivate you, and he's squeezing
Speaker 2: out the last five push ups still out from you.
Speaker 2: And this is the reason why next week we are
Speaker 2: becoming better and are able to deliver more push ups
Speaker 2: because we break that limitation we had on ourselves before.
Speaker 2: So in order to become better, in order to bring
Speaker 2: out more about ourself, there is something about breaking limits
Speaker 2: and breaking above things that was holding us back before. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and when we switch now from the martial arts into
Speaker 2: let's say just our mental states, then it's just the
Speaker 2: question what is it that nowadays is able to hold
Speaker 2: me back? What is it that is limiting me in
Speaker 2: the way? How I sink mm hmm. And this is
Speaker 2: what the five mental states or the five hindrances that
Speaker 2: I was talking before are about. There are five states
Speaker 2: of the mind simplified. There are more, but the five
Speaker 2: are very simplistically expressed in this way, which can make
Speaker 2: it very hard for you to to see where you're standing.
Speaker 1: M Yeah.
Speaker 2: One of the states is, for example, when your complete
Speaker 2: day is filled with with sensory desire. So that means
Speaker 2: you're always looking for something that is giving you positive,
Speaker 2: a positive feeling. You can always chase something with the
Speaker 2: eyes because you like the beauty of the eyes. You
Speaker 2: always like to eat something great, so you you are
Speaker 2: following the taste with the smelling, the hearing with the feeling.
Speaker 2: It's the same. So your mind all day long is
Speaker 2: chasing over something over a desire, over a desire which
Speaker 2: derives from your sensory gates. Yes, in the moment you
Speaker 2: are running after these things, we say you're off track.
Speaker 2: You're off track because you cannot concentrate anymore on the
Speaker 2: essential part. You cannot remain calm. That is the problem, okay,
Speaker 2: because you're running after something that gives you positive feeling
Speaker 2: all the.
Speaker 1: Time, and that feeling is an external feeling. It's an
Speaker 1: external input, right, rather than internal.
Speaker 2: Yes, especially that it is triggered from external stimulis and
Speaker 2: I really think if somebody wants to hear more about
Speaker 2: those five hindrances, you will surely find them. But what
Speaker 2: I really want to now put the emphasis on is
Speaker 2: sometimes people misunderstand and think that monks or masters or
Speaker 2: people that live inside a monastery don't have a happy life,
Speaker 2: are not able to express themselves or are enjoying their lifetime.
Speaker 2: I really think it's very, very, very hard to find
Speaker 2: any person in this world who is so perfect to
Speaker 2: not have any type of influence from those five hindrances.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you say they're pretty universal.
Speaker 2: They are pretty universal. Everybody has them to a certain extent.
Speaker 2: This all is not about right, and it's not about wrong.
Speaker 2: It is just about everything that you do with your
Speaker 2: mind in this world has a consequence. If you can
Speaker 2: live with a consequence, then do it. If you like
Speaker 2: to follow your eyes and your senses, if you like
Speaker 2: to live a life full of external sense stimulus, then
Speaker 2: do it. It's not a problem. But this way of
Speaker 2: living a life has a consequence, and you, because you
Speaker 2: live this life, you will need to bear with those consequences.
Speaker 2: And we have eight billion people in this world. We
Speaker 2: cannot all live the same life based on the same ideology.
Speaker 2: The only thing that I'm always trying to encourage people
Speaker 2: is to say, you want a result in the martial art,
Speaker 2: there is the price you pay for it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, do the work.
Speaker 2: Do the work. Yeah, you want to live this type
Speaker 2: of life. It also means there's something you will sacrifice
Speaker 2: for this. So and this is the way how we
Speaker 2: see or I see the world. It's cause and consequence.
Speaker 2: So that means what I what my input into life is.
Speaker 2: I'm going to get a result from this. I wake
Speaker 2: up with the with the mind based on ill will,
Speaker 2: on bad thoughts all day long. I'm going to get
Speaker 2: results from this. I wake up every day and my
Speaker 2: mind is lazy. I don't want to move. My mind
Speaker 2: doesn't want to move. I don't want to think about
Speaker 2: something complicated. Also, you're going to get the consequence from this.
Speaker 2: And this is what those five mental states are about.
Speaker 2: They are just telling you be careful that there are
Speaker 2: states of the mind. When you have them for a
Speaker 2: too long time, they going to bring consequences that when
Speaker 2: you think about these consequences, you will maybe understand for yourself. Okay,
Speaker 2: on the long term, I don't want to live with
Speaker 2: these consequences.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's about reaping what you saw. Yes, So,
Speaker 1: charl and monks and look, martial artists in general are
Speaker 1: very much on a path of self mastery. So so
Speaker 1: what would be your advice to people who want to
Speaker 1: get into that self mastery because we know from from
Speaker 1: lots of different research actually that that people who pursue
Speaker 1: self mastery and tend to to have a life of
Speaker 1: more contentment. I'm not going to say happiness, because happiness
Speaker 1: is this thing that you know, the Stoic philosophers, the
Speaker 1: ancient Growths, Greeks and Roman philosophers said that that happiness
Speaker 1: is full of gold, that the person who chases happiness
Speaker 1: is a fool. I think more more contentment, satisfaction. What
Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks called you de ammonia. I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: a there's a similar word in Chinese. But what would
Speaker 1: you think are some of the important steps on a
Speaker 1: path to self mastering?
Speaker 2: A great part of this is in your hands. So already,
Speaker 2: when you have the feeling that your emotional states, or
Speaker 2: your quality of life, or your contentment or satisfaction about
Speaker 2: life at the moment is too much outsourced or is
Speaker 2: too much related to anything which is not in your hands.
Speaker 2: That's the first step to just start and realize, to
Speaker 2: return back and do not outsource this satisfaction, this happiness,
Speaker 2: this contentment. Don't make the way how you feel too
Speaker 2: much dependent on how these external stimulus are. And why
Speaker 2: is that Because there is there are situations, and there
Speaker 2: are persons, and there there are possibilities where you can
Speaker 2: do something about changing them or changing the situation, but
Speaker 2: very often and more likely you cannot, because how the
Speaker 2: world is going right now, it's not just about you.
Speaker 1: Hmm. Absolutely, you were not the.
Speaker 2: Source why the world is the way how it is.
Speaker 2: It's eight billion people have influence in how this world is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the natural constellation of the stars is the reason why
Speaker 2: the world is the way how it is right now.
Speaker 2: So it doesn't make sense to outsource this inner state
Speaker 2: of satisfaction to something that anyway, on the large scale,
Speaker 2: you cannot control. The first step is realize what is
Speaker 2: in your hands and what is definitely not in your hands.
Speaker 2: So that's step number one. Then step number two is
Speaker 2: that very helpful inside and why I think for some
Speaker 2: dedicated martial art practitioners it's more easy to get this point.
Speaker 2: Is the part about the discipline. I mean, if we
Speaker 2: talk about discipline, a monastery pretty much is an example
Speaker 2: for this discipline. But you have to say that in
Speaker 2: the very beginnings we talked about external discipline because inside
Speaker 2: the monastery, when you're young, you don't want to wake
Speaker 2: up at the hours you should wake up. It is,
Speaker 2: you don't want to make all the time so much
Speaker 2: training that you're supposed to do the training. So that
Speaker 2: means there's always somebody who is taking care of that discipline,
Speaker 2: that you keep the discipline, and that sometimes can also
Speaker 2: mean it's the stick that keeps the discipline. Yes, so
Speaker 2: this is what we call it's external discipline. But no
Speaker 2: matter what, if you are inside of such an external
Speaker 2: discipline for a long time, two years, three years, it
Speaker 2: will slowly start that you do it by yourself.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, right, That is that they development because a
Speaker 1: lot of people and they talk about how this person
Speaker 1: is so disciplined, that that person is so disciplined. I
Speaker 1: would love to be as disciplined, but they're not realizing
Speaker 1: that that person was probably exposed to discipline. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm Mexic ex military, and there was a lot of
Speaker 1: external discipline that went on. But there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are military individuals or martial artists who learn
Speaker 1: that discipline, as you said, being exposed to it and
Speaker 1: being externally regulated. After a while, you develop your own
Speaker 1: internal discipline. And that's I think something that a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't realize is that discipline is something that
Speaker 1: doesn't often come natural and that has to be learned
Speaker 1: over a period of time. It has to be expressed
Speaker 1: over a period of time in order to strengthen, and
Speaker 1: we actually know there are certain regions of the brain
Speaker 1: that if you are every time you're being disciplined, you're
Speaker 1: actually strengthening those regions. So and hence to your point
Speaker 1: of the monastery, it's external for a couple of years,
Speaker 1: and then it becomes internalized. It's something that we can
Speaker 1: all learn. I think it's something that a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't talk about when they talk about behavior change.
Speaker 1: They talk about all of these life hacks, but you
Speaker 1: don't hear discipline mentioned a lot. And I think it's
Speaker 1: pretty critical, right because you're exposed to the same temptations
Speaker 1: as many of us, but it's the discipline that can
Speaker 1: often be the discerning factor between which way your life
Speaker 1: goes isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, And I mean there is a reason why
Speaker 2: there is this saying you need to practice anything for
Speaker 2: at least one hundred days.
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's is that the shaolin thinking in terms
Speaker 1: of having this is.
Speaker 2: One saying, right idea. It is just you need to
Speaker 2: repeat something very very often. You need to program yourself.
Speaker 2: Our body is running on the software and this software
Speaker 2: is filled with some information and in order that this
Speaker 2: software really starts to change, you need repetition.
Speaker 1: M hm.
Speaker 2: The repetition makes the system change, and say, makes you
Speaker 2: reconnect whatever is able to reconnect. And this is exactly
Speaker 2: how you said it before. That that's the reason why
Speaker 2: we need repetition. And you sometimes need to be exposed
Speaker 2: to some conditions in order that you develop the right mechanism.
Speaker 2: And now together with that second step of cultivating your discipline.
Speaker 1: I love that expression, cultivating your discipline. It's a beautiful
Speaker 1: expression actually, because that that's what it is. Really. It
Speaker 1: sums it up, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Yes, there are also people who have talent. Talent means
Speaker 2: that your understanding of the subject in the beginning is
Speaker 2: much quicker. You are able to apply what you what
Speaker 2: you know much quicker. But ultimately, even if you are talented,
Speaker 2: I don't think the talent shows it's only about talent,
Speaker 2: but also the willingness on the other side to put
Speaker 2: the work into it, to find this right combination. And
Speaker 2: so that means there's something internal about this about this person,
Speaker 2: something that he already carries inside of him. But now
Speaker 2: you also need the external way. How is he expressing
Speaker 2: this in this world. So the internal gift and the
Speaker 2: external expression, those two together, this is what makes that
Speaker 2: person stand out in the crowd nowadays and becomes something
Speaker 2: and express something very very specialtely, this is the same
Speaker 2: like chigong and kung fu. Something internal something external. You
Speaker 2: need both and also right now, yes you need discipline,
Speaker 2: but now you also need to express this discipline. So
Speaker 2: you are using your will power, You are using the
Speaker 2: steadiness and ability to focus in order to now also
Speaker 2: take the same challenges as other people in this world
Speaker 2: are taking. It's just that you face the challenge, but
Speaker 2: you have discipline. That's why you don't give up even
Speaker 2: if you fail in that challenge. This is the only difference. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but we also it doesn't mean that in the monastery
Speaker 2: or any martial artists or whatsoever, does not face challenges
Speaker 2: just because he has discipline. No, he has many ups
Speaker 2: and downs, he has many failures. But because of this discipline,
Speaker 2: all these failures is not the end.
Speaker 1: I think it's an old Chinese saying, is that fall
Speaker 1: down seven times, get up? Yet? Yes?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: And in the and in the shawling way that there
Speaker 1: is a very strong connection between physical fitness and spiritual development.
Speaker 1: Can you just talk about those links for a little bit.
Speaker 2: So the root of shoolin arts, I would say, is
Speaker 2: derived from the insight into how the things are. Meaning
Speaker 2: the martial arts is only one way how you were
Speaker 2: able to put all the theory, all that knowledge, that
Speaker 2: wisdom which comes from so called charm Buddhism or zen
Speaker 2: Buddhism into ways of daily practice. It's really about this.
Speaker 2: To control the body is good. Controlling the body is
Speaker 2: already a good sign that there is something that you
Speaker 2: have under control. But if you would be able to
Speaker 2: control your mind as much as you are able to
Speaker 2: control the body, then we are regarding this in our
Speaker 2: tradition as the ultimate and the highest ability of yourself,
Speaker 2: the highest skill in order to create and have influence
Speaker 2: in your life quality. Because it's the mind. It is
Speaker 2: your thoughts that can bring you from one second from
Speaker 2: paradise into hell. Or for me personally, I have to speak.
Speaker 2: This is what I'm looking for, the power of the mind.
Speaker 2: This is what I think is sustainable when you are
Speaker 2: still young. And maybe I can consider myself still young
Speaker 2: with thirty eight. But one day the power of the
Speaker 2: body is gonna vanish. That cannot change. It is just
Speaker 2: gonna happen. But I don't think the power of the
Speaker 2: mind can cease so easily. This is maybe personal belief,
Speaker 2: but this is my interpretation and my ambition. Why I
Speaker 2: we got this way of life, to combine spirituality on
Speaker 2: the one side, the hard external martial art training on
Speaker 2: the other side. Why I think it's very, very beneficial.
Speaker 1: In terms of the mind and thinking about the mind
Speaker 1: and controlling the mind being key. You're not alone. And
Speaker 1: Marcus Aurelius was a Roman emperor and Stoic philosopher. You
Speaker 1: may have heard of him, but he said that we
Speaker 1: have power over our mind, not outside events. Realize this
Speaker 1: and you will find strength. Right. And Epictetus is another
Speaker 1: Stoic philosopher, and he said, and you can make my
Speaker 1: leg lam and you will imprison my leg, but you
Speaker 1: will never be able to imprison my mind. And so
Speaker 1: there's I think the Stoics are very aligned with that,
Speaker 1: that that Challlin tradition around that it's really the key
Speaker 1: is that part over the mind. It's just in Shallin.
Speaker 1: And my understanding from this conversation is that that the
Speaker 1: physical training and the martial arts is a way to
Speaker 1: condition yourself to have power over your mind. Is is
Speaker 1: that correct? It's like a kind of a gateway. Yes.
Speaker 2: I think if you would point it down at one
Speaker 2: center skill mm hmm, then it's exacut it is. It's
Speaker 2: all about increasing your awareness of your own mind also
Speaker 2: the ability to adjust your own mind. And therefore we
Speaker 2: need to use different methods because maybe when we talk
Speaker 2: about it, or I talk about it, for me it
Speaker 2: is normal that I say, I can see the thoughts
Speaker 2: that are arising. But I don't think it's something normal.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes it's just like I have the sort
Speaker 2: and that's it. There's nothing I can do about it.
Speaker 2: But it's not like this. And why we have so
Speaker 2: called sitting practices meditative practices, because if you are sitting
Speaker 2: physically for half an hour or one hour or even
Speaker 2: for five minutes, you really try as good as you can.
Speaker 2: Sit down and don't move. Don't move the body, not
Speaker 2: even the eyebrow, nothing, just don't move. So what you
Speaker 2: want is the body becomes still. When the body becomes
Speaker 2: still and you are not itching somewhere or scratching somewhere,
Speaker 2: then it means the more you practice, the more you
Speaker 2: will realize if your mind actually is still or not.
Speaker 2: Because all the time, right now, if right now in
Speaker 2: our rooms the wind would be blowing, we can feel
Speaker 2: the wind on the skin because we are distracted by
Speaker 2: our sense sensation. So if we're able to for a
Speaker 2: moment shut down the senses, then all your awareness, all
Speaker 2: your consciousness, is able to be put upon your mind,
Speaker 2: and then you can see if your mind is still
Speaker 2: or not. Then it's really like entering into another world.
Speaker 2: And the more you practice is the more then you
Speaker 2: will really realize. I think my mind was still all
Speaker 2: the time, but there is so much turbulence. And this
Speaker 2: is the way why there is this sitting practice for
Speaker 2: what this is one of the reasons, this is the
Speaker 2: benefit why it's worse to sometimes try this out. What
Speaker 2: you think today is normal. You just do the right practices,
Speaker 2: and you will realize that the way how somebody has
Speaker 2: lived his life was the unnormal way. Normal is something different.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you talk about the mind and that observation.
Speaker 1: I remember that I was in Cambodia, maybe twenty five
Speaker 1: years ago, right, and I was traveling, and I went
Speaker 1: to a monastery and there was a female monk who
Speaker 1: was there, who had been and they're meditating for a month.
Speaker 1: And I asked her for a little bit of advice,
Speaker 1: and she laughed, and then she said to me, the
Speaker 1: first step is to be the watcher of your own mind.
Speaker 2: Yes, but now also for example, now you see these
Speaker 2: are topics. It's really nice to talk all the time
Speaker 2: about it. So if you imagine, it would be possible
Speaker 2: to have just a round of lots of philosophers and
Speaker 2: keep talking about the power of the mind and this
Speaker 2: and that and how the philosophers in the past already
Speaker 2: knew it. So it's easy to get lost in these topics.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's the doing, the art of the doing, isn't it.
Speaker 2: And that's now why we know it's possible.
Speaker 1: But now how to do it?
Speaker 2: And this is again where the martial arts, the schoolIn
Speaker 2: kung Fu the shaolin chigo starts to enter because now
Speaker 2: there's a practical way. Okay, if I want to now
Speaker 2: gain this idea of the power of the mind, start
Speaker 2: to observe the mind, how do I do it? And
Speaker 2: one of these schoolIn methods is practicing of the martial arts,
Speaker 2: practicing of the chiego, practicing of Chinese calligraphy, these different
Speaker 2: type of things. Having the various types of tea ceremonies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, these are all expressions where you were able to
Speaker 3: have some some object, let's say, to place the mind.
Speaker 2: One and then from from this point start to work.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. They're there there. There are ideal examples of
Speaker 1: mindfulness practice that to do them properly, you need to
Speaker 1: be completely focused. Your attention needs to be on the
Speaker 1: on the act, or the ceremony or the practice itself.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, exactly. For example, I'm sure that you also
Speaker 2: had some tea ceremonies already in the past.
Speaker 1: Maybe, yes, And those.
Speaker 2: Tea masters sometimes say or they say, you can see
Speaker 2: all answers of life within that tea ceremony. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: for example, what do they mean with this at the end,
Speaker 2: what you have, the expression that you have is the
Speaker 2: taste of the tea on your tongue. And now we
Speaker 2: just take this example and try to return back and
Speaker 2: where is this taste coming from? And there it starts
Speaker 2: somewhere there was a plant was growing. Somebody plucked that plant,
Speaker 2: rolled it, or took the tea leaves, stored it somewhere
Speaker 2: for sometimes thirty years. Afterwards, shipped it to Germany, or
Speaker 2: shipped it to the UK, or shipped it to the USA.
Speaker 2: Somebody bought the tea. Now has to cook the water
Speaker 2: to the right temperature, put the water into the bowl
Speaker 2: for the right amount of time, and afterwards you're able
Speaker 2: to taste and drink that tea. If just one thing
Speaker 2: along this line would change, the taste of the tea
Speaker 2: that you were able to taste would change. And again,
Speaker 2: what we have here is what you feel on the
Speaker 2: tongue right now. It's like it's the consequence, it's the effect.
Speaker 2: But this effect has a long history. And the question
Speaker 2: is are you able to follow back and trace back
Speaker 2: this history. And if you can trace it back on
Speaker 2: the tee, and now you just put it back and
Speaker 2: try to trace back yourself. Where do my habits come from,
Speaker 2: Where do my ideas come from? Where do the paths
Speaker 2: on my body that are hurting right now, where is
Speaker 2: it coming from? Then you find a great path, a
Speaker 2: great key already some answers that you might have towards
Speaker 2: this life.
Speaker 1: So that that whole introspection. And it's interesting, you said.
Speaker 1: As you started saying, I started smiling because I talk
Speaker 1: a lot about gratitude, and I say to people, you know,
Speaker 1: you can be grateful for a cup of coffee, and
Speaker 1: and and maybe you're grateful that the barrista who made
Speaker 1: the coffee put the attention in it. But then you
Speaker 1: need to think about the farmer in Columbia who maybe
Speaker 1: put his life savings into growing the coffee, and the
Speaker 1: people who picked the coffee, then the trucks that took it,
Speaker 1: and then the planes that that flew you. And actually, wow,
Speaker 1: how do we get a plane? Somebody had to create
Speaker 1: an engine, so they had to design the plan. You know,
Speaker 1: all of those complex equations, all of this stuff that
Speaker 1: goes into and you can really go very deeply down
Speaker 1: a path if you become focused on mind, feeling curious
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, and along this way, just how you explain
Speaker 2: also where does this coffee come from? What is happening?
Speaker 2: Is you start to see the connection, the connection of
Speaker 2: the presence of the present with the past, and also
Speaker 2: the connection then between the present and the future. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and also between yourself and the coffee, and then also
Speaker 2: yourself and the farmer of the coffee. So the principle
Speaker 2: that starts to happen along this way is connectivity. Happens
Speaker 2: the farmer on the other side of the world does
Speaker 2: have an influence on your life. Yeah, but this is
Speaker 2: something you don't realize or maybe you don't want to
Speaker 2: realize in today's world.
Speaker 1: Mutely, we've got to wind up in a few minutes.
Speaker 1: But I just wanted to get your thoughts on happiness.
Speaker 1: And we said earlier there's many people in our societies
Speaker 1: that chasing happiness. And what is your opinion on how
Speaker 1: we can foster happiness or contentment or flourishing well being,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to say, and what would be your
Speaker 1: parting advice to the listeners.
Speaker 2: Okay, happiness I think already has a very strong connotation
Speaker 2: in nowadays world. That's why I don't want to use
Speaker 2: the word happiness. Imbalance, not knowing whether life goes up
Speaker 2: or life goes down, whether you succeed, or whether you fail,
Speaker 2: whether you're going to stay alive or whether you die.
Speaker 2: This is an issue all humans have that there is
Speaker 2: this instability which is always fluctuating, seemingly between two extremes.
Speaker 2: Let's say either you're successful or you're failing. When you're
Speaker 2: moving towards success, you're in a specific state. When you're
Speaker 2: moving towards failure, you are in another state. Neither of
Speaker 2: those states is what I think will give you peace
Speaker 2: of mind. So the aim or the advice for me
Speaker 2: and for others would be try to find that state
Speaker 2: of the mind that is free from fluctuation. M and
Speaker 2: this state free from fluctuation, free from movement. Maybe you
Speaker 2: can call it stillness, and that stillness, maybe you can
Speaker 2: call it there is nothing, or you can call it actually,
Speaker 2: there's everything already. I don't know if I would express
Speaker 2: this state as happiness or as contentment, or just as peace.
Speaker 2: It's peace. Walk through this life peacefully. You meet other people,
Speaker 2: meet them with peace. You face different challenges, face that
Speaker 2: challenge with peace. It doesn't matter what you are facing
Speaker 2: in this world, it's always better to face it with peace.
Speaker 2: Peace inside of yourself. This is what you can do.
Speaker 2: You are sick, still you're in peace. You just won
Speaker 2: the lottery. Still stay in peace, because if you win
Speaker 2: the lottery and you are not staying in peace, then
Speaker 2: most probably you are somewhere in the state of euphoria.
Speaker 2: But in ephoria, you spend too much money, you're going
Speaker 2: to waste.
Speaker 1: You come crashing down pretty quick. Right, No, that's great,
Speaker 1: it's great advice. So so thank you, mister uh master
Speaker 1: she hanged Ye. Sorry for my pronunciation of your name,
Speaker 1: But this has been this has been awesome. It's been
Speaker 1: a really interesting conversation into the mind and the practices
Speaker 1: of a shoolin monk. And I think there is there
Speaker 1: is something in this for for everybody, but for people
Speaker 1: who who have enjoyed what you said and who want
Speaker 1: to find out more. And I know you've got an
Speaker 1: incredible wealth of stuff that's online. Where can people go
Speaker 1: to find out more about your course? I know you
Speaker 1: also run retreats, So when we eventually open up from COVID,
Speaker 1: you know, how can I find more about you and
Speaker 1: what you do?
Speaker 2: So the monastery where I'm located at is the Shouting
Speaker 2: Temple Europe, and I think it's really really easy if
Speaker 2: you just search for this monastery and on the other side,
Speaker 2: if you just link my name Hilhani, you also find
Speaker 2: access to all the different varieties that we are offering.
Speaker 2: And on the one side, because of the restrictions, we
Speaker 2: also started to offer free online trainings. So for everybody
Speaker 2: who wants to have a peek in what type of
Speaker 2: practices these are, feel free to join. And besides that,
Speaker 2: all the information I think is available and you can
Speaker 2: just link it somewhere at your podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will put all the links in the podcast,
Speaker 1: and I really encourage people. You do have an incredible
Speaker 1: amount of of of free online resources, so so for that,
Speaker 1: I thank you on behalf of all of the listeners
Speaker 1: and anybody who has has gained benefit from from doing
Speaker 1: and some of your practices.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: H