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Speaker 1: Before we begin. This podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.

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Speaker 1: This is a production by The Australian and our subscribers

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Speaker 1: Here episodes first and get full access to photos, video,

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Speaker 1: news stories and features plus all Australia's best journalism twenty

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Speaker 1: four to seven. Join us at Gangstersghost dot com dot

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Speaker 1: a U.

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Speaker 2: I can call it Australia's Barbary Coast, and there are

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Speaker 2: a few pirates there for sure. Others call it sidon

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Speaker 2: the city and the summer that around too, if you

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Speaker 2: can believe what you read about it. The inhabitants make

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Speaker 2: their living out of baker our dope, witch grant prostitutions,

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Speaker 2: stripping them selling each other so larly.

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Speaker 3: It's King's Cross, Sydney in the nineteen sixties. Stuart John Reagan,

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Speaker 3: the good Catholic boy from young in Country, South Wales

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Speaker 3: and fresh from several stints in a boy's correctional home,

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Speaker 3: is about to step out into hedonistic sin city. He's

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Speaker 3: still a teenager. One of the nicknames hand written on

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Speaker 3: his criminal record is the Boy, though he already has

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Speaker 3: a police rap sheet that should belong to someone twice

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Speaker 3: his age, not a lame record of shoplifting or petty scams,

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Speaker 3: but a Sultan robbery. At no point is he ever

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Speaker 3: a lowly crime boss's dog's body, the Errand kid, or

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Speaker 3: Smoko Fetcher. By eighteen, he's a brothel enforcer in charge

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Speaker 3: of a handful of working girls. The jury is out

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Speaker 3: on whether his own mother, Claire, known to all as

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Speaker 3: the Colonel, set him up with a few working girls

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Speaker 3: to get his career started. From the outset, Reagan cements

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Speaker 3: a reputation as a violent enforcer with a hair trigger temper,

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Speaker 3: willing to eliminate anyone who gets in the way of

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Speaker 3: his ambition to be the most powerful gangster, not just

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Speaker 3: in Sydney but Australia.

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Speaker 4: There is a.

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Speaker 3: Famous police mugshot of Reagan that is still used today

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Speaker 3: whenever his name pops up in the media. We have

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Speaker 3: used it for this podcast. It has become iconic and

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Speaker 3: shorthand for Australian gangster. Reagan is clean shaven. His thick,

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Speaker 3: slightly oiled hair flicks up off his forehead like black

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Speaker 3: cockatoo wings. His expression is sullen, his eyes in deep

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Speaker 3: sockets that are shaded by his brows. Those eyes are

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Speaker 3: seriously intense and offer menace. One glance at this photograph

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Speaker 3: and you think several things mean, violent, angry, stubborn. His

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Speaker 3: face carries a peculiar and chilling contradiction both movie star

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Speaker 3: good looks and a sense that he could hurt or

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Speaker 3: kill you at will. The picture was taken in June

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty two, when he was just sixteen years old.

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Speaker 3: It's difficult to reconcile family photographs of Reagan as an

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Speaker 3: innocuous little country schoolboy just a few years earlier, and

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Speaker 3: this teenage embodiment of pure hatred. You can already see

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Speaker 3: the grown up mobster he is to become. It's as

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Speaker 3: if the gangster was fully formed inside that teenage body.

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Speaker 3: It just needed to be let loose, and it was

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Speaker 3: when he left the Gosford Boys Home and returned to

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Speaker 3: the loving embrace of his mother, The Colonel in Darlinghurst.

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Speaker 3: A nineteen sixty four documentary called The Glittering Mile from

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Speaker 3: the then Special Project's division of the National Nine Network

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Speaker 3: and narrated by David Lowe, was so successful in capturing

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Speaker 3: the seediness of the Cross at the time that it

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Speaker 3: made the headlines for being rude and lewde.

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Speaker 5: And that's the way it is that King's cross.

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Speaker 4: But this is the other face of the cross, not.

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Speaker 5: So harmless, not so friendly, not so.

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Speaker 6: Easy to forget.

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Speaker 2: The night face that it alternately.

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Speaker 5: Laughing and scowling, seeking comfort or for guest sensation or satisfaction.

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Speaker 5: Only here the search for something, whatever it is, goes

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Speaker 5: on all through the night.

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Speaker 3: The key to Reagan, to his rage and violence, lies

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Speaker 3: somewhere in those formative years between Cherrytown and when he

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Speaker 3: was released from Mount Penang with its boomerang on the

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Speaker 3: front gate, when he was let off the leash in

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Speaker 3: Big bad Sydney. What happened during that period not only

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Speaker 3: shaped his short life, but also planted the seed of

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Speaker 3: his death. He was always going to die horribly, as

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Speaker 3: his own mother predicted, he was never destined to make

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Speaker 3: old bones. What he did with just over a decade

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Speaker 3: of adult life, from when he departed Gosford until he

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Speaker 3: ended up on the Morgue slab is still being discussed

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Speaker 3: half a century later. This podcast started out as a

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Speaker 3: clinical look at one of Australia's most reviled gangsters, but

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Speaker 3: when the Reagan family came on board, the project took

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Speaker 3: on another dimension and begged the question how does a

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Speaker 3: family cope with the generational stain of a murderer whose

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Speaker 3: death was celebrated by criminals and police alike. This is

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Speaker 3: episode four, Real Wild Child, The Wild One by Johnny O'Keefe.

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Speaker 3: It could have been written with Reagan in mind. As

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Speaker 3: for Sidney's King's Cross, a short walk from the house

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Speaker 3: the Colonel shared with her sister Thelma in Liverpool Street, Darlinghurst,

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Speaker 3: it was the perfect petri dish for Reagan's hyperkinetic some

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Speaker 3: would argue psychopathic ambitions. The cross, on a ridge between

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Speaker 3: the cities well to do inner eastern suburbs like Paddington,

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Speaker 3: Edgecliffe and Double and Rose Bays and the gritty wharves

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Speaker 3: on the eastern edge of the CBD, had long been

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Speaker 3: a magnet for artists and poets, for the sort of

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Speaker 3: dope smoking, carefree beatniks whose idealism had drifted across the

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Speaker 3: Pacific from the United States and found a home in

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Speaker 3: the pubs and bars and coffee shops and blocks of

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Speaker 3: flats that line Darlinghurst and Bayswater Roads, Victoria and McLay Streets.

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Speaker 3: It was no stranger to violence this place. In the

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Speaker 3: late nineteen twenties and early nineteen thirties, the infamous Razor Gangs,

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Speaker 3: led by mobsters Kate Lee and Tilly Devine, slashed away

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Speaker 3: at each other in the back streets and lanes. Their

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Speaker 3: violent lives have been the basis for a virtual cottage

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Speaker 3: industry of books, films and television shows like Channel Nines

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Speaker 3: Underbelly franchise.

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Speaker 7: Judge says, Kate Lee must be the worst woman in Sydney.

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Speaker 8: No mention of Tilly Divine.

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Speaker 4: What do you want to be the worst woman in Sydney?

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Speaker 9: Do you?

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Speaker 7: I want to be recognized for what I am?

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Speaker 3: That era spawned another criminal monster. His name was chow Hays,

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Speaker 3: an utterly ruthless thief, gunman and murderer, and he has

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Speaker 3: been credited as Australia's first true gangster. He came into

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Speaker 3: his own during the brutal Razor Wars in Sydney in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen twenties. He was jailed for murder in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifties and was fighting and stealing into old age.

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Speaker 3: Look at his police mugshot from the nineteen twenties and

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Speaker 3: Reagan's from the nineteen sixties, and you'd swear they were

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Speaker 3: father and son and they had something else in common.

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Speaker 3: This is from journalist Adam Shan's television series is Suburban Gangsters.

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Speaker 10: Those gangs were the breeding ground for the criminals. And

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Speaker 10: in fact what happened to Hayes was he found himself

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Speaker 10: at age fourteen, after half a husand convictions for shoplifting,

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Speaker 10: being sent to Gosford Boy's Home, where he met at

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Speaker 10: age fourteen and a half murderers. It was the university

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Speaker 10: for criminals, and he learned everything by the time he

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Speaker 10: was seventeen about being a criminal.

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Speaker 3: By the time young Reagan was finding his way in

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Speaker 3: the underworld in the early nineteen sixties, the Cross, that

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Speaker 3: densely populated suburban patch of artists and freethinkers and troubled

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Speaker 3: scribes was giving way to something else. Vice drugs and

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Speaker 3: illegal gambling and prostitution found a receptive host in King's Cross,

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Speaker 3: and then the virus, along with its enforces, simply took over.

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Speaker 2: It's a no man's land worth something for everyone he

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Speaker 2: There's no boundaries to its name and no limits to

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Speaker 2: its way of light. In fact, the Cross is not

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Speaker 2: a place but a state of might.

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Speaker 3: Darlinghurst Road that ventricle from William Street to the El

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Speaker 3: Alaman fountain and its many narrow offshoots was the beating

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Speaker 3: heart of the Cross, and with its flashing neons and

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Speaker 3: dark enclaves, was a landscape made for a gangster like

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Speaker 3: Stuart John Reagan. Reagan embodied its state of mind, no boundaries,

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Speaker 3: no limits to its way of life. If Reagan hadn't,

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Speaker 3: by chance, been born into that time and place, it

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Speaker 3: would have created him anyhow. With its rich night life,

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Speaker 3: hatering for everything from cabaret to cocaine, supper clubs to prostitution,

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Speaker 3: it attracted suburban punters and overseas visitors, and the men

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Speaker 3: and women who would prey on them and their cash.

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Speaker 2: From its hut, you can go about half a mile

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Speaker 2: in any direction before you run out of the lights

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Speaker 2: into the darkness of the outside world. A half mile

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Speaker 2: there and back, a glittering mile of dreams, delusions, hopes

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Speaker 2: and headaches.

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Speaker 3: A glittering mile of dreams. And no other gangster in

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Speaker 3: Sydney at the time had bigger dreams than Reagan. The

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Speaker 3: famous brothel Madame Shirley Brifman, who arrived in Sydney from

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Speaker 3: Brisbane in the early nineteen sixties and built a hugely

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Speaker 3: lucrative Empire had several run ins with Reagan. The run

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Speaker 3: ins is a bit mild. On one occasion, he actually

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Speaker 3: tried to murder her. We'll hear more about Shirley in

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Speaker 3: future episodes of this podcast, but Briffman said in a

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Speaker 3: police interview that Reagan was not happy just trying to

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Speaker 3: control wece in Sydney. He wanted to run it right

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Speaker 3: across the country. He had a brain for business, both

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Speaker 3: legitimate and illegal. He would go on to orchestrate one

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Speaker 3: of the most successful scams in Australian history, but not yet.

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Speaker 3: As a teen thug, he traded in violence and fear.

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Speaker 3: Stories of his psychotic behavior, however they may have changed

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Speaker 3: or been exaggerated over time, are still legion.

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Speaker 11: I remember a story about Reagan being in King's Cross

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Speaker 11: with a friend and he'd come across what he'd had

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Speaker 11: a disagreement with, bashed himtok pulp and as the guy

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Speaker 11: lay on the ground mortally wounded, Reagan turned to his

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Speaker 11: friend who was smoking a cigarette, made him give him

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Speaker 11: the cigarette, and he stubbed that lit cigarette in the

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Speaker 11: person's eye. That's how vicious Reagan was.

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Speaker 3: That's veteran Sidney crime reporter Norm Lipsyn. In journalist and

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Speaker 3: author Adam Shann's television documentary series Suburban Gangsters.

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Speaker 11: John Reagan built up a stable of prostitutes. He made

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Speaker 11: quite a lot of money out of that arm, and

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Speaker 11: he controlled them through fear and violence. If he found

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Speaker 11: out that there was a customer who was misbehaving or

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Speaker 11: wasn't paying, they'd be beaten within an inch of their lives.

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Speaker 3: And this is the late New South Wales detective Roger

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Speaker 3: Rogerson who would die in jail as a convicted murderer,

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Speaker 3: also appearing on the Shan documentary.

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Speaker 9: He was a pretty solid luck.

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Speaker 12: He was pretty hard and you could not believe how

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Speaker 12: strong as basket was. If he grabbed you, he had you,

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Speaker 12: you couldn't get away.

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Speaker 3: I spoke at length to both Norm Lipson and Roger

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Speaker 3: Rogerson before the latter was arrested, charged and ultimately convicted

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Speaker 3: of murder several years ago about Reagan. As a young

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Speaker 3: reporter in Sydney, I looked up to Norm. It was

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Speaker 3: the sort of older crime journalist who had a million

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Speaker 3: contacts and always seemed to get the best scoops. It's

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Speaker 3: a measure of the power of the Reagan name. Still

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Speaker 3: that Norm expressed some concerns about offering his thoughts on

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Speaker 3: the dead gangster for this podcast and whether there might

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Speaker 3: be repercussions from the Reagan family.

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Speaker 13: Well, I know what I'm coming after me. I've still

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Speaker 13: got a lot of hard friends. But that's not the point,

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Speaker 13: you know.

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Speaker 3: In a career filled with underworld characters, he clearly remembers Reagan.

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Speaker 13: I grew up in the Southeastern suburbs and Reagan used

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Speaker 13: to knock around the Bondai Junction. I knew people who

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Speaker 13: knew him, and they used to tell me stories about him,

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Speaker 13: horrendous stories. And I was in their company and met

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Speaker 13: him a couple of times. He got the nickname the Magician,

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Speaker 13: and it wasn't because of his wizardry. It was because

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Speaker 13: he made people disappear. He used to beat people up

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Speaker 13: for nothing. A friend of mine who knew him, tell

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Speaker 13: me a story about how he was upset with somebody,

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Speaker 13: a guy once, and he was so upset that he

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Speaker 13: went and bashed this guy, put a dog collar and

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Speaker 13: a chain around his neck and made him walk to

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Speaker 13: a pub on all fours and sat him in the

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Speaker 13: pub with this dog collar and chain like a dog.

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Speaker 13: To humiliating things like that this is a fellow who

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Speaker 13: used to torture and kill animals.

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Speaker 3: I tell you a funny thing. When he was a kid,

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Speaker 3: he was an only child in young in country New

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Speaker 3: South Wales. We've spoken to people who witnessed this. His

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Speaker 3: mother chained him to a post in the backyard and

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Speaker 3: she would flog him with a stock whip.

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Speaker 13: Oh no, wonder he turned out the way he did.

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Speaker 13: But he embraced violence. He embraced it. He loved it.

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Speaker 13: As I say, he embraced violence and random violence. It

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Speaker 13: didn't matter. He just loved hurting people.

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Speaker 3: Norm agreed that Reagan had big plans for his future.

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Speaker 3: I've looked at the record of interview that Briffman did

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Speaker 3: in seventy one when she blew the whistle, and she

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Speaker 3: said that Reagan wanted to be not just the boss

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Speaker 3: of New South Wales but all of Australia. He seemed

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Speaker 3: to be very ambitious.

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Speaker 13: I think he just wanted to be revered and feared

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Speaker 13: by all, and that's probably what led to his eventual demise.

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Speaker 13: This guy just wanted to take over everything, to be

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Speaker 13: feared by everybody and bowed to and revered, And a

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Speaker 13: lot of people suffered before he.

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Speaker 3: As for Rogerson, he had no doubt that Reagan was

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Speaker 3: an absolute psychopath. Perhaps it took one to know one.

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Speaker 3: Rogerson argued that there were three uncontrollable criminal maniacs on

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Speaker 3: the loose during the heyday of his policing career in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen sixties and seventies. The first was Brisbane born

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Speaker 3: Raymond Ducky O'Connor, shot dead in a Sydney nightclub in

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven, supposedly by the mob boss Lenny Mister

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Speaker 3: Big McPherson standover man. Ducky had a formidable reputation for

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Speaker 3: being a loose cannon. Police described him as mad and crazy.

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Speaker 3: The second was another Brisbane criminal, John Andrew Stewart. Stuart,

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Speaker 3: a graduate of yet another notorious boy's home, Westbrook outside

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Speaker 3: to Woomba, west of Brisbane, was also considered by fellow

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Speaker 3: criminals and detectives alike, a complete psychopath who could and

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Speaker 3: did kill at will. Incredibly, Stuart's own short and violent

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Speaker 3: life became significantly entangled with Reagan's, and you'll hear more

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Speaker 3: about that soon. The third on Rogerson's lunatic list was,

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Speaker 3: of course Reagan. The type of criminals so unhinged, that

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Speaker 3: they became dangerous not just to the public and police,

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Speaker 3: but the underworld itself.

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Speaker 12: Lenny McPherson said me, watch Matt, he said Roger, he said,

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Speaker 12: you can control a bad man, but you can't control

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Speaker 12: a madn forgotten.

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Speaker 4: That's a great quotion in it.

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Speaker 12: That came from Annie McPherson, and I've created a few times,

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Speaker 12: you know, because that's exactly what he said. And it's

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Speaker 12: fucking right, because these blokes are just as dangerous to

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Speaker 12: the criminalal use who is that terminology? They are more

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Speaker 12: sometimes dangerous to them than to the public.

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Speaker 3: And what a middle year it was when Reagan was

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Speaker 3: trying to make his way to the top. If Australia

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Speaker 3: ever had a Gilded Age of gangsters, then this was it.

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Speaker 3: Michael Duffy is a publisher, broadcaster and the author of

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Speaker 3: several crime novels, as well as two classic works of

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Speaker 3: historical non fiction that lay bare the Reagan era in

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Speaker 3: Sydney World War Noir and Sydney Noir The Golden Years,

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Speaker 3: both of which he co authored with Nick Horden. Michael

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Speaker 3: explained that there were a number of reasons why Reagan

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Speaker 3: flourished as a mobster, in the nineteen sixties and into

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Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 4: Was that policing was much harder.

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Speaker 14: Back then, it was much harder to lock people up

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Speaker 14: legally anyway, because police didn't have the resources they have now.

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Speaker 14: If you think about things like modern forensics, DNA, CCTV,

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Speaker 14: phone tapping, none of this was available. I mean there

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Speaker 14: were technological there were scientific limitations, and so really the

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Speaker 14: most powerful weapon in a CoP's armory when he was

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Speaker 14: usually he was trying to solve a crime was an informer.

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Speaker 14: Because the crooks would blab about what they'd done. The

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Speaker 14: informer would come and tell the detective, and the detective

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Speaker 14: would know because he knew he had a reliable informer,

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Speaker 14: he'd know who did the crime, but he couldn't really

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Speaker 14: prove it.

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Speaker 4: Really, even if you're an honest cop. Honest maybe in

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Speaker 4: inverted commerce, in order to get convictions, they had the

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Speaker 4: load and they had the verbal, and they loaded evidence

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Speaker 4: onto the criminal they knew had done the crime, or

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Speaker 4: they verbal them they basically signed made them. You know, well, they.

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Speaker 14: Drew up their own false confessions for these crooks because

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Speaker 14: it was the only way of locking them up.

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Speaker 3: The police verbal was the bane of being a criminal.

300
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Speaker 3: Reagan went on about the verbal in his secretly recorded

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Speaker 3: phone calls with other criminals.

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Speaker 15: Interesting, you're laying in the third flight, where can they picture?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 9: Right, Actually, are you a riad of us? Had they

305
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Speaker 9: led you?

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Speaker 3: Duffy went on.

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Speaker 14: So if even honest cops for doing this thing called

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Speaker 14: noble cause corruption, you can imagine the opportunities that then

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Speaker 14: opened for dishonest cops to come along and yeah, just

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Speaker 14: start doing whatever they like and basically start letting off

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Speaker 14: the crooks they wanted to let off, and loading up

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Speaker 14: the competition of those crooks the other crooks, and that

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Speaker 14: led to these alliances between crooks and cops, such as

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Speaker 14: the famous one between Lenny McPherson and Ray Kelly, who

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Speaker 14: was the primary leading cop in the early sixties, which

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Speaker 14: did so much to contribute to corruption. So these things

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Speaker 14: are really important.

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Speaker 3: According to Duffy. Reagan also landed in Sydney's Inner East

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Speaker 3: at a time of social change. From the mid nineteen fifties,

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Speaker 3: suburban clubs in New South Wales were allowed to feature

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Speaker 3: poker machines, effectively transforming them into mini casinos. The money

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Speaker 3: flooded in. With that cash injection, the clubs flew in

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Speaker 3: famous and famously expensive entertainers from around the world. You

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Speaker 3: could see great singers or lavish musicals in your local clubs.

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Speaker 3: King's Cross lost its appeal.

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Speaker 14: And so the Cross basically repurposed itself, and throughout the

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Speaker 14: sixties and seventies it gradually turned from a bohemian entertainment precinct,

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Speaker 14: you know, into a sleezy place selling sex and later

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Speaker 14: on drugs, and that sort of led to the rise

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Speaker 14: of the Cross as a focal point for crime, especially towards.

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Speaker 4: The end of the sixties into the seventies.

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Speaker 3: As for the criminal top dogs who prowled this new

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Speaker 3: sleezy King's Cross as Reagan arrived on the scene, Michael

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Speaker 3: Duffy says one particular mob boss cast a huge shadow

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Speaker 3: over this era, and yet very few people have heard.

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Speaker 4: Of him, Paddles Anderson.

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Speaker 14: He had very big feet, or some people say I

338
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Speaker 14: had big hands, but I think it was big feet.

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Speaker 4: So Paddles was a somewhat shadowy figure.

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Speaker 14: But from what we've been able to work out, he

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Speaker 14: was by far the most influential person, probably to the

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Speaker 14: sixties and into the seventies. And it's a mark of

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Speaker 14: his skill that he remains so little know. Abe Saffron

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Speaker 14: is a more interesting figure because I mean he was

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Speaker 14: almost like a real estate figure slash would be entertainment

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Speaker 14: entrepreneur who just happened, who just had to get engaged

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Speaker 14: in a bit of crime, because you had to if

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Speaker 14: you're in that line of business.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, there's a fascinating photo I have of Reagan

350
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Speaker 3: cutting a cake at Checkers for his twenty first birthday,

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Speaker 3: which would have been September nineteen sixty six, and sitting

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Speaker 3: opposite him at the table is Frederick Paddles Anderson.

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Speaker 4: That's a good photo to have, But it's.

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Speaker 3: Interesting how a twenty one year old just turned twenty

355
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Speaker 3: one could have this huge crime figure at his little

356
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Speaker 3: birthday party at Checkers.

357
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Speaker 4: It is extraordinary. It suggests that who is very well regarded,

358
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Speaker 4: doesn't it.

359
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, there's discussions in the family about Uncle

360
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Speaker 3: Paddles and they just seem to have been a relationship

361
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Speaker 3: there that I can't get to the origins of.

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Speaker 14: But no, and we've been it's been very difficult to

363
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Speaker 14: find out anything at all about Anderson. I mean, he

364
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Speaker 14: spent some time in Melbourne, he came back. He was powerful.

365
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Speaker 14: But it's extraordinary how secretive he was. If you talk

366
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Speaker 14: to older crooks Carbonat and people like that, a lot

367
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Speaker 14: of them talk about Anderson has been this very influential figure.

368
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Speaker 3: Would that suggest that he's one of the Master's apprentices

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Speaker 3: in that Anderson has in a way taking him under

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Speaker 3: his wing in a sense. Or is it that's stretching

371
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Speaker 3: too far.

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Speaker 14: I think that sounds likely because there had to be

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Speaker 14: an implicit agreement amongst all these powerful crooks that they

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Speaker 14: each had their particular area, and if Rogan was, you know,

375
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Speaker 14: it was making ways and everything, there's no way they

376
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Speaker 14: would have let him do that without trying to draw

377
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Speaker 14: him in, as it were. I'm not aware of any

378
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Speaker 14: you know, any crooks that are operating at a high

379
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Speaker 14: level that were completely independent. I think at some point

380
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Speaker 14: they all had to form a sort of working agreement.

381
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Speaker 3: By the time Stuart John Reagan was released from Mount

382
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 3: Penang around nineteen sixty three, the Swinging sixties were well underway.

383
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Speaker 3: It was during this time that he secured what may

384
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 3: have been the one legitimate job in his short life,

385
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 3: as a bouncer at the fabled Whisky You Go Go

386
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: nightclub in William Street near King's Cross's Magic Mile of

387
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 3: strip clubs and prostitution dens. The Whisky was managed by

388
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 3: a man called Ivor Balmaine, the father of Revel Balmain,

389
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 3: a sex worker who famously vanished and was presumed murdered

390
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 3: in Sydney in the nineteen nineties. Back in the nineteen sixties,

391
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 3: Balmain trumpeted the whisky as a beacon of respectability amidst

392
00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 3: the sodoms and gomorahs of the Cross. The club was

393
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 3: popular with American soldiers on R and R from Vietnam,

394
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Speaker 3: and Balmaine had some very firm ideas about the sort

395
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Speaker 3: of women he expected to see in his club. This

396
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 3: is from an ABC four Corners report in nineteen sixty eight.

397
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Speaker 6: We like the family type of girl, a night type

398
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 6: of girl. You know, I don't particularly like these type

399
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 6: of girls that people say hang around the Cross. That's

400
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 6: a much used term, of course, But a girl that

401
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 6: I think I'd be glad to talk to, to screen

402
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 6: them at all in a way. Yes, we have two permissionaires.

403
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 6: We have two men of the rope down just before

404
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 6: they're going to the dining room. Then myself, we like

405
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 6: to see a girl that looks pretty wide open, feminine, type.

406
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 6: Nice hair, hasn't got that vindictive block on our face?

407
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Speaker 2: How do you actually measure them? What sort of yardstick

408
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: do you use for a respective ODB?

409
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 6: I don't like these. Sweat has very heavy tan bag makeup.

410
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 6: His atrocious looking glass. I like to see a nice

411
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 6: way out girl, a good little swinger. It's neatly dressed.

412
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 6: I suppose that's about the only thing I'd looked for. Really.

413
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 3: Reagan was one of those men down on the rope

414
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 3: near the front doors, as iver Belmaine put it, and

415
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: it was while working at the Whiskey that he met

416
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 3: perhaps his one and only true love, Margaret. The first

417
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: time he laid eyes on her, he was smitten. She would,

418
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 3: he knew, immediately become the gangster's wife. Margaret Reagan's wife

419
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: and mother to three of his children. Margaret, the suburban

420
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 3: Sydney girl whose life was changed one night when she

421
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 3: made the innocent decision to go dancing with a girlfriend

422
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 3: at a nightclub, the Whiskey, a go go in King's

423
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 3: Cross on Friday night. Margaret, daughter to respectable parents, who

424
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 3: went into that famous club for a bit of fun

425
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 3: and stumbled almost literally into the arms of Stuart John Reagan.

426
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 3: Marg has never talked in public about her relationship with Reagan.

427
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 3: She has never said a word outside the family about

428
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: being the gangster's wife until now. I sat down with

429
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 3: Marg for the first time out at Kelly's sheep farm

430
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 3: in Young Deep in Reagan Country. Kel used the opportunity

431
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 3: of Marg's visit to bring the entire clan together, her

432
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 3: brother Jeff, some of her children, Daniel and Carli, and

433
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: it had been quite a journey for Marg, who lives

434
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: on the New South Wales central coast. She hadn't been

435
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 3: too young in years. As we settled down to talk

436
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 3: to Marg in the farmhouse kitchen, Kell and the family

437
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 3: started drifting out of the room to give us privacy,

438
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 3: but Marg extended her arms and called everyone back in.

439
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 3: She wanted her family around her when she told her story.

440
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 16: I don't want to keep repeating myself for everybody. It's

441
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 16: better to sell everyone here. Okay, that's I want that, Okay,

442
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 16: So what do you want to know now?

443
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 3: Marg grew up in a modest house in Arncliffe, southwest

444
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: of the Sydney CBD and not far from the airport

445
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: at Mascot.

446
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 16: I was seventeenth and I met this girl that was

447
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 16: a hairdresser, and she asked me, Mark, do you want

448
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 16: to come to the city, And I can't tell my father,

449
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 16: is how am I going to do? I lied, Indeed,

450
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 16: I've never been out of ever in the King's cross

451
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 16: Wing Street, nothing in my whole life, never been anywhere.

452
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 16: I was the shyest person. You wouldn't think that now.

453
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 16: I came from an ordinary suburban house that was made

454
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 16: of fiber and stinkham hot in summer, cold in winter.

455
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 16: That's how we leave. So anyhow, we decided we go

456
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 16: to the city. So we went to the city in

457
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 16: the train. So we trotted off to the city and

458
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 16: then we decided to go to a place called Whiskey

459
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 16: a Go. So Whiskey a Go Go in those days

460
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 16: was like a disco. So we get to the front

461
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 16: door and there's a glass there like this. As you

462
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 16: go down the steps, it was like steps.

463
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 9: Was he like a bouncer or a doormant or a doormanus?

464
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 16: I was very naive, but then very nive. And as

465
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 16: I'm going to go, he's come over to me and

466
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 16: he's gone.

467
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 9: What's your name?

468
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 16: And I didn't need to and he's gone, I'm coming

469
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 16: down I'm going to have a dance with you later.

470
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 9: Oh my god, this is not this is you. Who

471
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 9: is this guy? What did he look like to you? Handsome? Handsome,

472
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 9: very strong looking.

473
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 16: Man's sort of stubby but strong build, beautiful eyes, very

474
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 16: good looking man.

475
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,239
Speaker 9: I never I wasn't. I wouldn't know.

476
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 16: Like if you said to me, is that we're good looking?

477
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 16: Man who knows says, I wouldn't know what you were

478
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 16: talking about. Okay, So I'm gone to my friend. Oh

479
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 16: what's that all about?

480
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 9: Sort of thing?

481
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 16: So how goes downstairs, and about half an hour to

482
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 16: an hour lady came over again. And because he'd been

483
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 16: working there, I didn't think he was supposed to be

484
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 16: taking the patrons and dancing on the floor. Okay, well,

485
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 16: when I think about it now, he comes up to

486
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 16: me again and he leans over and he says to me,

487
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 16: I want to see you again.

488
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 9: I'm going to marry you.

489
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 17: This is croop.

490
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 9: I think, what creep, But I've never experienced that. I'm

491
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 9: going to marry you. Yep.

492
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 16: And I said to my friend that man just said,

493
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 16: and that man I didn't know who was. So we

494
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 16: stayed there for a little while and we left and

495
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 16: he asked me for the phone number, and I didn't

496
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 16: give it to him. But if I remember back then,

497
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 16: I think my friend ain't give him the phone number.

498
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 16: So weeks went past, weeks went past.

499
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 9: The ponies.

500
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 16: And it was his pursy and he said I want

501
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 16: to see you with you and that's how it.

502
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 8: Also, the naive young Mark was nervous, not.

503
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 3: About the type of person reading was. She knew nothing

504
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: about him, just his brazenness and how her family might

505
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 3: react to this nightclub bouncer suddenly on the scene. On

506
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: the surface, it all appeared entirely respectful. On their first day,

507
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 3: a young man called John was coming to take Margu

508
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 3: for a pleasant sunday. What could possibly go wrong?

509
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 16: And he used to travel from then Paddington Well down

510
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 16: to unc look by train, knock on the door and

511
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 16: say on John, eaton lot and drink taking or saying

512
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 16: that's okay. He would say, mother, that's okay. Is it's

513
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 16: a Sunday today, and so you make sure she's home

514
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 16: by five o'clock. That's what's the rules?

515
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 9: Did you stick by the rule?

516
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 4: Yes?

517
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 16: From the train where we traveled to Paddington. At that

518
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 16: time he didn't have a car, so he used to

519
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 16: come out and get me and we're traveling and we'll

520
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 16: go to Paddington.

521
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 3: Marg ended up outside the house in Liverpool Street where

522
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 3: Reagan lived with his mother. Marg wasn't invited inside on

523
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: that first date or many to follow, but she could

524
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 3: hear from inside the house the ravings of the woman

525
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: she would come to know as Reagan's mother. It was

526
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: the first time marg had encountered the cyclone that was the.

527
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 16: Colonel Haddington had this tree out the front of this house,

528
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 16: and he would say, so it won't bear my mother.

529
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 16: I'm just going in to change my clothes my mother,

530
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 16: and that's here. And I could hear this woman in

531
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 16: the house saying, you don't bring any ass lucks in

532
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 16: the ear or whatever. You know, you know, she's not

533
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 16: allowed to and blah.

534
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 18: Blah blah blah.

535
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 16: I was like, what's going on? And she would say

536
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 16: that every time that I would wait out the front.

537
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 16: She did it to me about four or five times,

538
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 16: and to one day I says.

539
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 9: I don't want to go in your bloody house. It's

540
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 9: that day on I was allowed in.

541
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 3: Now, what young Margaret didn't know was that, despite her

542
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 3: suitor's youth, he already had a burgeoning criminal record. On

543
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 3: January twenty four, nineteen sixty three, aged just seventeen, Reagan

544
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 3: was charged with living on the earnings of prostitution charges dismissed.

545
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: March twenty two, nineteen sixty three. Charged with assault charge

546
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 3: dismissed April five, nineteen sixty three. Charged with selling liquor

547
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 3: without a license, fined thirty pounds. April twenty six, nineteen

548
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: sixty three, Charged with the use of indecent language, fined

549
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 3: three pounds. July three, nineteen sixty three, charged with a

550
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 3: salt occasion in actual bodily harm. Here he is committed

551
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 3: to an institution, which may have been his first stint

552
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 3: in the Gostford Boys Home. Then in nineteen sixty four,

553
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 3: the year he met Marg, he was charged on April

554
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 3: twenty six with speeding in a vehicle, driving without his

555
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 3: ELM plates, and driving unaccompanied by a licensed driver. He

556
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: was fined a total of thirty four pounds. This might

557
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 3: explain why he had to resort to public transport when

558
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 3: he was first dating Mark. In July nineteen sixty four,

559
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 3: he was also charged with a salt but again the

560
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: case was dismissed. Meanwhile, he pursued the attractive brunette from Arncliff.

561
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 18: So in the early days of the courtship, what things

562
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 18: did you do?

563
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 9: Let's go swim in?

564
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 16: Where'd you go swimming at Bondi Because of the time

565
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 16: that we had for me leaving my home to come

566
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 16: into the city to go so's we didn't have much time.

567
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 16: So it's just more like hanging around time because he

568
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 16: really didn't do nothing. It was either him going in

569
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 16: and changes go. Once I was allowed in that house,

570
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 16: perhaps soul would have something to eat, and that's when

571
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 16: I met Thelma and I met his mother. The house

572
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 16: it was a very dark house because it was something detached,

573
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 16: true story. It was filled with older type dark furniture.

574
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 16: Had a kitchen with a round table that you know

575
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 16: in the olden days, and my mother used to do that.

576
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 9: She used to meet the.

577
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 16: Sauce in the paper and salt and sometimes a bother

578
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 16: on the middle of the table, and the conuments in

579
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 16: the middle of the table would stay there all day

580
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 16: with a table cross underneath it. Very small, but I

581
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 16: had an upstairs, so John's room was upstairs.

582
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 9: I can't at the front. At the front front.

583
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 16: Very rarely I was allowed to go upstairs to that room,

584
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 16: not with erdie, not that I did. I never went

585
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 16: there upstairs to that room.

586
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 3: It was at this time that marg finally met the

587
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 3: Colonel Regan's domineering and formidable mother face to face. From

588
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: the outset, their relationship did not bode well for the future.

589
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 9: In the matter.

590
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 18: What did she look like sound like?

591
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 9: Can you describe her? Angry? Always angry?

592
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 18: Was she a big, big, white, small woman.

593
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 16: She's a German Irish background and very solid book, very strong,

594
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 16: rookly except woman. So she was a very angry woman,

595
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 16: screaming all the time, just screaming at him. What are

596
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 16: you doing John or whatever? You're not screaming all the time.

597
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 16: But her sister, Delma. It was just like a little

598
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 16: person in the corner that had no sale or nothing

599
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 16: in even though that was her house. The control was

600
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 16: not only to her son, and she controlled John for

601
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 16: many many years. I don't think it was the biggest

602
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 16: gangster or whatever she had the control. John was still

603
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 16: controlled by his mother. Even at the latest station in

604
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 16: his life. He would say, they're pay any attention to him,

605
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 16: It's okay.

606
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 4: It's all right.

607
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 16: But she could be quite hurtful. I think she kept

608
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 16: for him, but carrying and John and Yer inst too

609
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 16: different closes.

610
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 4: And bit.

611
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 3: Reagan in many ways was still just a kid, and

612
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 3: Margaret saw that side to him very early in their relationship.

613
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 16: If I wasn't allowed out on a Sunday and my

614
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 16: father saying not going next men and derby a ambulance

615
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 16: at the front of the house. My father I never

616
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 16: ran an ambulance or he would bring a fibrigade there,

617
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 16: and all the time he was up in what they

618
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 16: call the red phone boxes. Then I knew that he

619
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 16: was there, but I couldn't say anything. I didn't tell

620
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 16: my parents it's John doing this because I wasn't allowed out.

621
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 16: So he used to be up there and he ring

622
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 16: the ambulance, he ring the fibrigade, he ring.

623
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 9: The police. I think he didn't want to. My father

624
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 9: was like pulling his hair out. What's going on here?

625
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 9: He better not be that boy that you're hanging around with.

626
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 4: It.

627
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 9: Better not be that guy well with a big him,

628
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 9: you know what I mean. They were fun times. It

629
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 9: was funny.

630
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 16: It was funny, and he'd gone, you tell your father

631
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 16: you better be out out next week. Well, I'll be

632
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 16: doing the same thing. Again, he had that little bit

633
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 16: of devil went in him. That was funny and interesting.

634
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 9: You know what I'm saying.

635
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 8: To Mark.

636
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 3: He was an interesting, devilish young man who had not

637
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 3: one but two jobs when him he was employed, obviously

638
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 3: had the whiskey he goes.

639
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 18: Did he ever talk about his work or no?

640
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 9: He also had a job as a toe jack.

641
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 18: You never heard that.

642
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 9: So he would have been all around.

643
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 16: Those streets in Paddington, across the industreet or whatever.

644
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 9: He would have been all around me.

645
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 3: I didn't meet the monster, Mark says of the young Reagan,

646
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 3: but the monster was evolving slowly but surely. In late

647
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty five, Reagan was charged with rape. Police alleged

648
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 3: that Reagan nineteen, a laborer of Victoria Street, King's Cross,

649
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 3: along with two accomplices, had raped a nurse in the

650
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 3: Cross Earlier that year. Police said Reagan and his two

651
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 3: offsiders had let to scar the seventeen year old woman's

652
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 3: male companion with a hot poker if she didn't submit

653
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 3: to intercourse. During a court hearing leading up to the

654
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 3: rape trial, Reagan complained that he'd been bashed by police.

655
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 3: I'm not a criminal, he told the court. I was

656
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: asked to go in a lineup. When I refused, I

657
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 3: was bashed by five policemen. I didn't do anything to anybody.

658
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 3: Reagan was ultimately acquitted of the rape charge, but he

659
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: was keeping some dangerous company in the mid nineteen sixties.

660
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 3: You might remember corrupt cop Roger Rogerson talking about the

661
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 3: handful of certified psychopathic criminals that were around in his day.

662
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 3: Reagan was one. The others were John Andrews Stewart and

663
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 3: Raymond Ducky O'Connor. Stewart and Ducky were both young Brisbane

664
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 3: crooks down in Sydney trying to cut it with the

665
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 3: big boys. Stuart, when he wasn't behind bars, was inseparable

666
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 3: from his good mate and fellow reformatory boy James Finch.

667
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 3: Ducky O'Connor would not be around for long. He was

668
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: shot dead in a nightclub in Sydney in nineteen sixty

669
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: seven in a brazen and totally insane attempt to assassinate

670
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 3: underworld heavy Lenny Mister Big McPherson. Ducky was shot in

671
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 3: the head. McPherson didn't cop a scratch. The obituaries weren't

672
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 3: kind to Ducky. Crime reporter Bill Archigord wrote in The

673
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 3: Sun it was as if a mad dog had been

674
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 3: put down in the interests of public safety. He was mean,

675
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 3: vicious and crazy, a standover who would sooner threaten you

676
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 3: with death than say Giday. John Andrew Stewart and Stuart John.

677
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 3: Reagan's lives would, however, become messily and almost fatally entangled.

678
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 3: Stuart was also mean, vicious and crazy, committed to Callen

679
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 3: Park Asylum in Sydney after bashing a police officer unconscious.

680
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 3: The newspapers reported that Stuart had been certified as insane

681
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 3: during one of his stints in Longbay Jail. He was,

682
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 3: to put it mildly, an habitual offender. Stuart and Ducky O'Connor,

683
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 3: before Ducky had his head partially blown off by McPherson,

684
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 3: were charged with raping two prostitutes in the mid nineteen sixties.

685
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 3: When the matter came to court, Reagan threatened one of

686
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 3: the women with death if she appeared as a witness.

687
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: She didn't. Here's an assessment of Stuart from people who

688
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 3: knew him from the ABC podcast Danny's Inferno by journalist

689
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 3: Frank Robson.

690
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 4: John was feared he was very fair mane. He's such

691
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 4: a strong, tough bugger and he.

692
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 9: Could fight, you know.

693
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: No, he was a pretty intractable prisoner as well.

694
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 10: You know, he was a hard case inside and everyone

695
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 10: feed him inside, including the prison officers, just they couldn't

696
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 10: manage him.

697
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 4: He was just too handy, you know.

698
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 3: People like Stuart were Reagan's associates. As he was pranking Margaret,

699
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 3: circling her as his future wife and clearly steering her

700
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 3: clear off his subterranean gangster life. He was also playing

701
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 3: the field when it came to women, carousing his way

702
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 3: through the cross with thieves and working girls and promising

703
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 3: them the world. In the course of my investigations down

704
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 3: the years, I was lucky enough to become friends with

705
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: a woman called Dorothy Edith Knight. Dorothy was a self

706
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 3: confessed knockabout and did time in jail for fraud before

707
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: starting work as a sex worker in Brisbane and Sydney

708
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 3: in the nineteen sixties. She would go on to become

709
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 3: the lover of corrupt Queensland detective and member of the

710
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 3: so called rat Pack of crooked cops, Glenn Hallahan, ultimately

711
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 3: in trapping him in a sting operation, but Before that,

712
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 3: she plied her trade in Sydney. Her best friend back

713
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 3: then was a thief called Gloria, And through Gloria, Dorothy

714
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 3: met Stuart John Reagan. She used to see him in

715
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 3: the saloon bar of the old deco Mayfair Hotel on

716
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 3: Bayswater Road in the Cross. Tell me about Stuart John Reagan.

717
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 7: He used to drink occasionally at the Mayfair. And if

718
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 7: you knew anything about this Gloria, if you knew what

719
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 7: charges she'd been up to, it could be the same person.

720
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 7: She was on with him for a lot of years,

721
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 7: but as she never lived together and they used to

722
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 7: have terrible fights and he'd blacken her eye, and no,

723
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 7: she was a petty thief flog. I met her in

724
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 7: jail in Bogga Road and they stole it us safe

725
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 7: and they put it on the back of the body

726
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 7: use and coming down the range they were taking it

727
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 7: into the bush to blow it up. The blood is safe.

728
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 7: Couldn't get it open, so they had it in the

729
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 7: use and it fell off the frecrant and the bloat

730
00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 7: behind them ranged the cops and I think they got

731
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 7: eighteen months each. She knew every cream, She knew him

732
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 7: all don't worry.

733
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 4: She knew what was what?

734
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 3: So you met Reagan in the Mayfair in Sydney.

735
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, in the Mayfair. Gloria broke up with him eventually,

736
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 7: and he used to come in quite often and have

737
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 7: a drink. And I knew he liked me, and actually

738
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 7: I liked him.

739
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 9: I liked him too.

740
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 7: Anyway. I think I said something to Glory and I said, look,

741
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 7: he's invited me out, and she said, well, body go

742
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 7: with him. So she said, I'm never going to have

743
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 7: anything more to do with him. She said, the thing

744
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 7: I'll tell you is that he's mixed up in a

745
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 7: lot of stuff. She didn't tell me exactly what, and

746
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 7: she said, he's got a very very bad temper and

747
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 7: if he gets on the grove heavy look out. If

748
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 7: he's in one of his moods, you'd give you a

749
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 7: black eye as quick as a look at you. So

750
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 7: I went out with him and I finished up going

751
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 7: to the cop with him, and I liked him. He

752
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 7: never did the wrong thing by me. I have to say.

753
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 7: He used to go to this night club in Sydney

754
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 7: and he had a lot to do with the manager there,

755
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 7: and he would take me there for drinks and maybe

756
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 7: something to eat, and he disappeared for half an hour

757
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 7: and in the office with this bloke. So I don't

758
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 7: know really what they're up to. I'll tell you it

759
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 7: was caught. There's something cat, the pink pussy Cat.

760
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 4: Yep.

761
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it was on the corner there near

762
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 7: the Mayfair. I'm pretty sure that was the one.

763
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 9: Yeah.

764
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 3: How do you remember how he dressed? It was just

765
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 3: like the suits in the sixties.

766
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 7: You know, pretty respectable. Yeah, loved a gamble. I know

767
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 7: that he got pretty heavy on the races and used

768
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 7: to go to a lot of these nightclubs and there

769
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 7: was a room out back and you could play cards

770
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 7: the big money.

771
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 9: He was into that a lot.

772
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 3: Do you know if he carried a gun?

773
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 16: Glory told me he did.

774
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 7: He had it in his you know where they put

775
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 7: a thing around your leg, down the bottom. He carried

776
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 7: a little gun there.

777
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 9: Yeah.

778
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 7: I'm pretty sure she did a lot of jobs with him.

779
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 7: I'm almost certain, but I can't tell you what because

780
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 7: I don't know.

781
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 3: Well, Reagan never mistreated Dorothy. She saw the damage she

782
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 3: inflicted on her friend Gloria.

783
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 4: God.

784
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 7: He used to go off. She walked into the Mayfair

785
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 7: and she had the biggest black eyron cup of her

786
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 7: teeth out and said, oh, bashed the shit out of

787
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 7: me last night.

788
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 9: That's the end of it.

789
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 16: But she kept going back.

790
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 7: But in the end, I mean she really had had enough,

791
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 7: because she said she was so terrified in the end

792
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 7: that in knocker and she hit her head and she

793
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:35,959
Speaker 7: died and she lived.

794
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 3: Dorothy said she was aware at the time that Reagan

795
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 3: had a partner, Margaret.

796
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 9: Yes, that's right.

797
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 7: Knew about her. Yes, I knew about that.

798
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 3: Did Gloria ever talked about Margaret?

799
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 7: No, she didn't like the idea, of course, because I

800
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 7: mean he told her that he loved her more than

801
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 7: anyone else, and he more or less told me the

802
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 7: same thing, that they were going to separate. She's still alive.

803
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 3: She's still alive. How would she be she'd be a

804
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 3: mid to late seventies.

805
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 7: Oh, okay, I'm wonder hash. I hope she got on

806
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 7: her in life.

807
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 3: Dear Dorothy passed away last year after an extended illness.

808
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 3: For such a petit woman, she lived a big life

809
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 3: and took a lot of extraordinary stories of the underworld

810
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:36,280
Speaker 3: with her. Around this period when Reagan was playing the field,

811
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 3: a strange entry appeared on his police record. On November sixteenth,

812
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty six, Reagan was charged at Sydney's Central Police

813
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 3: Station with breaching the Wireless Act to wit being in

814
00:54:53,760 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 3: possession of a radio transceiver. He received a fine. This

815
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 3: is interesting because it showed that Reagan was what we

816
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 3: might call today an early a doctor of technology, not

817
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 3: just because it satisfied his feverish brain, but because it

818
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 3: might be useful to further or protect himself and his

819
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 3: criminal enterprises. I rang my old mate, former Queensland detective

820
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 3: and undercover operative, Jim Slade, and asked him to try

821
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 3: and explain the charge. What on earth did you have

822
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 3: to do to contravene the Wireless Act. Jim said that

823
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 3: prior to nineteen fifty seven, if you had a radio

824
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 3: in your home, you were required to have a license

825
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 3: at two pounds per year. After nineteen fifty seven you

826
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 3: were required to have a license for your radio and TV.

827
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 3: If no license was held, a substantial fine was imposed.

828
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: From nineteen fifty eight onwards, the fine was fifty pounds.

829
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 3: Jim said this was used by police to hurt someone

830
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 3: who they wanted to harass. Police were inspectors under the Act,

831
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 3: and to be ourseholes. Jim said they would use this,

832
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 3: along with sections of the Vagrants, Gaming and Other Offenses

833
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 3: Act to come down on targets and make life difficult.

834
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 3: Being charged under the Wireless Act by police would have

835
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 3: been to load the bastard up, said Jim. And we

836
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 3: now know Reagan was partial to secretly recording phone calls,

837
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 3: as well as taking mini recorders into the field and

838
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 3: capturing conversations with other people, including his sex workers, criminals,

839
00:56:58,760 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 3: and police.

840
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 18: Season in masur if, I said, John, look, I want

841
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 18: you to sign this.

842
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 9: I want you to do that.

843
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 18: Here's the money, here's that he done it. Do you understand, Give.

844
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 19: Me the Simons Civilly and then he can't take criminalation,

845
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 19: get the civil summons.

846
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 3: On his official police consorting cards, the very first one

847
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 3: carries a warning in capital letters, believe to carry tape

848
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 3: recorder concealed under his coat to tape police going to.

849
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 13: Be as loud as that talks. It's recording and what

850
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 13: we're saying here and be picked up very it's recording.

851
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 9: Now. While we took three five.

852
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 3: By the time Reagan hooked up with marg he was

853
00:57:55,440 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 3: a whiz with those clandestine recordings. Put in the war high.

854
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 3: In some of the tapes, you can actually sense marg

855
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 3: or his mother, the Colonel somewhere in the background. Reagan

856
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 3: will bark out and aside with his usual scatter gun

857
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 3: speed during a phone conversation.

858
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, I wouldn't wear makeup.

859
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 15: You're pretty well, you're pretty all.

860
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 3: In one instance, it seems he's deciding on what to

861
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 3: have for breakfast.

862
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 15: The other thing, I won't belong well, well, watch the radiator, Jesus.

863
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 9: Yeah.

864
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 3: And the constant in all the tapes, the one thing

865
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 3: that everything gravitates around is determined by and ruled by money.

866
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 19: He signed and he's brother told him to sign it,

867
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 19: and then his brother said, you should have made the

868
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 19: document more water to I'd say that he's shyl the

869
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 19: diamonds to you. I said, now, I'm going to do

870
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 19: it legally. But no, Blue, I've given him a kind

871
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 19: period to give him the money back.

872
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 8: He doesn't.

873
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 18: He loses the money, he said, all right, he's brothers.

874
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 19: All right, I'll see he doesn't get I remember once before,

875
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 19: when he first insured him, his idea was to have

876
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 19: him stolen or get bashed or robbed off him, and then.

877
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 18: He was going to report them. Starle un claiming insurance.

878
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 3: Remember that Reagan's mad brain never stopped cooking up money

879
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 3: making schemes. He quickly graduated from the ten Knuckles school

880
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 3: of business to scams that teetered on the edge of legitimacy.

881
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 3: By the mid to late sixties, he was well and

882
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 3: truly on his way to becoming a millionaire gangster. As

883
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 3: you will hear in the next episode of The Gangster's Ghosts.

884
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 3: That was not before Reagan hit a few snags and

885
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 3: dodged a f few bullets along the way. He'd be

886
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 3: involved in an almost Wild West shootout in a major

887
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 3: Sydney street in broad daylight with fellows psychopath John Andrew Stewart,

888
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 3: and he'd be pursued by police in a high speed

889
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 3: car chase.

890
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 4: It's coming back.

891
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 17: I looked Graven Street to my right and what he done?

892
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 17: He'd followed me so soon? Yes, So then a chase

893
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 17: his shirt. I've chased him in my car and we've

894
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:45,439
Speaker 17: had a about the five hundred around Kentington, and he's

895
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 17: gone a street called day Avenue and stops one at

896
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 17: the top.

897
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 4: And I was screaming up and had to stop me.

898
01:00:54,400 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 17: When he's turning in a punchl Avenue. So I've fired

899
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 17: four shots, Chaddy.

900
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 20: Well, unfortunately I was firing right handed. I'm left handed.

901
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 20: So one of them was an air wing and three

902
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 20: of them penetrated the back of each car.

903
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 4: Anyway, he got away.

904
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: The Gangster's Ghost is a production of The Australian. It's

905
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: written and presented by senior writer Matthew Condon and produced

906
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: and edited by multimedia editor Leat samaglu Our Executive producer

907
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: is Me, Editorial director Claire Harvey. Special thanks to Lara Kamenos,

908
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: Erica Rutlidge, Kristin Amiot, Jasper Leik, Stephanie Coombs, Sean Callanan Lachland, Clear,

909
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: Ryan Osland, Amanda will Williams, Christine Keller, Tarn Blackhurst, Magdalena Zajak, Giselbuerti,

910
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: Genevieve Brammel, Lauren brow Sus Rolf and Yaquina Carlson. We

911
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 1: can only do journalism like this with the support of

912
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 1: US subscribers, who hear episodes first and get full access

913
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: to photos, video, news stories and features, plus all Australia's

914
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: best journalism twenty four to seven. Join us at Gangstersghost

915
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: dot com dot AU.