Speaker 1: I'll get I Grovers, Craig and the Harper, Kate, Mary
Speaker 1: and Veronica, Wilma Malaria Save what. I don't know? What
Speaker 1: you do? You have a second name, Kate Save.
Speaker 2: I do, and like most, a lot of womenutes their
Speaker 2: grandma's first name. So it's Kate Patricia, Patricia, Kate Patricia.
Speaker 1: How are you, Kate Patricia? I'm well, where do we
Speaker 1: find you at?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Right now? Tell my listeners where you are now? Because
Speaker 1: your life is very interesting.
Speaker 2: Well, I've just traveled from Melbourne Victory, where I was
Speaker 2: talking to the female players and some of the Matilda's,
Speaker 2: and I've headed into the studio world WTFN, where they
Speaker 2: make Bondavette and lots of the shows that you'd waughtch
Speaker 2: over all of the big networks. I'm looking around the
Speaker 2: office that I've borrowed. I can see the Hunters, Ares,
Speaker 2: the Doctor, Supercars, the living Room, Space Invaders, Ocean, Thailand, Oddball.
Speaker 2: There you go. They're just the posters in the room.
Speaker 1: That's also where you film your show, isn't it.
Speaker 2: I filmed twenty eight days that changed my life here
Speaker 2: and well it was mostly on location, but yes, with
Speaker 2: the team here and yeah, we were filming up in
Speaker 2: Sydney working with the guys that do Space Invaders, which
Speaker 2: is the cluttering show. Have you ever seen that?
Speaker 1: It would do your head in the decluttering show, the
Speaker 1: one with that what is that? I mean? There is something?
Speaker 1: I mean?
Speaker 3: Is there?
Speaker 1: You know this has got nothing to do with food.
Speaker 2: It's written about it. Oh it is. Yes, there's a
Speaker 2: link between food and hoarders.
Speaker 1: Really all right, let's so before we talk about the
Speaker 1: link between food and hoarders and oh my god, I've
Speaker 1: never thought that, and I think about a lot of shit.
Speaker 1: I've never thought about that correlation. But and I guess
Speaker 1: in hoarding there must be some mental health issues going on.
Speaker 1: Of course, just give a little bit of a snapshot
Speaker 1: of you, like a just a quick bio if you would. Yes.
Speaker 2: So, I'm a dietitian, excise physiologist and diabetes educator. I
Speaker 2: am the founder of PPMN, a dietitian consultancy that we've
Speaker 2: run for twenty years manage medical centers and private hospitals
Speaker 2: and their dietitian services. And ten years after that I
Speaker 2: started Beefit Food, a doctor and dietitian design scientifically formulated,
Speaker 2: ready made meals company.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, Like I don't know, Yeah, you are busy.
Speaker 1: Do you see yourself as more Maybe it's an equal mix.
Speaker 1: But like, because you're an educator, you're also a scientist,
Speaker 1: because you're an excise physiologist and a dietitian two different
Speaker 1: fields but related of course. And you're an entrepreneur, you're
Speaker 1: a businesswoman. What do you feel the most like do
Speaker 1: you feel like a scientist or an educator or an
Speaker 1: EP or a dietitian or do you feel like an
Speaker 1: entrepreneur primarily? Like what what's your kind of Because I
Speaker 1: did business for a long time and I can do
Speaker 1: the entrepreneurial stuff, but my natural habitat is more teaching
Speaker 1: and coaching. I can do it, and I had four
Speaker 1: gyms and I employed five hundred trainers, but it took
Speaker 1: me a long time to realize I can do this,
Speaker 1: but I'm not passionate. Like what do you feel most
Speaker 1: connected to? Oh?
Speaker 2: Being around people? So I think today I'm in my
Speaker 2: element when I was presenting at Melbourne Victory to the
Speaker 2: girls soccer team and we're looking at you know, national
Speaker 2: soccer players, some of them in the league there that
Speaker 2: have played, you know, for the biggest competitions in the
Speaker 2: world with the matildas and educating them about their gut
Speaker 2: health and the impact that it has on their sports
Speaker 2: performance and how important you know, literally what they eat,
Speaker 2: their sleep, how they're recovering all those sorts of things.
Speaker 2: That's when I'm in my element, and I think the
Speaker 2: business and entrepreneurial side of that is really how you
Speaker 2: work out how you get to do more of what
Speaker 2: you love. And I love food, so always working on
Speaker 2: recipes and new food ideas and phone calls in the
Speaker 2: car with just ideas. So I think a bit of balance.
Speaker 2: But I definitely change hour by hour.
Speaker 1: And you're also a TV presenter because I was on
Speaker 1: your show, which was which is the Inspired CEO? That's
Speaker 1: what it's called, isn't that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: The Inspired CEO?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you've got plenty going on, all right,
Speaker 1: tell us about the relationship before I forget between the
Speaker 1: hoarders and food and maybe even mental health. What's tell
Speaker 1: us about that?
Speaker 2: There's actually been books read about it, sorry written about it.
Speaker 2: I own one of them. What is fascinating is that
Speaker 2: people who called things more often than not there's some
Speaker 2: the lying psychological issue like there is with binge eating disorders,
Speaker 2: or the other eating disorders. So I think there's this
Speaker 2: correlation between a whole hoarding stuff. And there are certainly
Speaker 2: people that hold in their fridge too, and I've seen
Speaker 2: one of those, and you know, no fault of anyone's own,
Speaker 2: it's how whatever happened to them when they were growing
Speaker 2: up or their habits. And it's super interesting the show
Speaker 2: Space Invaders to get inside someone's home and you watch
Speaker 2: them literally put every single belonging that they have into boxes,
Speaker 2: put it on a truck, take it to these giant
Speaker 2: warehouses and I mean giant, and they unpack every single
Speaker 2: little item and they tell them you are only going
Speaker 2: to keep twenty to thirty percent of this, seventy to
Speaker 2: eighty percent needs to go. And then the show is
Speaker 2: literally about why are people keeping these things? Why can't
Speaker 2: they part with them? And it can be the smallest
Speaker 2: thing that someone on the show wants to get rid of,
Speaker 2: but it becomes, you know, like the the biggest deal imaginable.
Speaker 2: It brings them to tears. And I think that's where
Speaker 2: the show is spectacularly good at working out what is
Speaker 2: really going on with getting rid of that teapot, whatever
Speaker 2: it might be, Like, what is so important about that.
Speaker 2: It's not that the grandmother or the mother gave it
Speaker 2: to them, it's whatever the story was that they remembered
Speaker 2: and why that was so critical. And the same thing
Speaker 2: with food. So I would go into these homes to
Speaker 2: film and you would open up the pantries or the fridge.
Speaker 2: And this is not every single order, obviously, but I
Speaker 2: certainly experienced this firsthand, and it would be jam packed,
Speaker 2: and I mean like you could not squeeze a green
Speaker 2: bean in there, like you know what I mean, because
Speaker 2: every hole has been stuffed, absolutely stuffed, and the age
Speaker 2: and the rot and how old some of that stuff
Speaker 2: is is you know, it would be very unappealing for
Speaker 2: most people. But people happily live normal lives and.
Speaker 1: Have normal jobs.
Speaker 2: Yet they live in this disarray with their stuff. And
Speaker 2: I think after seeing it firsthand and meeting these people,
Speaker 2: everyone has a story in they just deal with it
Speaker 2: in different ways.
Speaker 1: What do you think the under And I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: not one thing. And by the way, everyone nether are
Speaker 1: as psychologists. We're not prescribing anything or we're not diagnosing anything.
Speaker 1: It's just two people having a chat. But what do
Speaker 1: you think? And again, Kate dietician and ex scise physiologists,
Speaker 1: not a psychologist, but you know, you work with a
Speaker 1: lot of people. What do you think the underlying causes are? Like?
Speaker 1: What what? You know? What is somebody's story when they've
Speaker 1: got rotting, decaying, out of date food in the fridge
Speaker 1: that they don't want to get rid of.
Speaker 2: I can definitely see a pattern with stress in people's lives,
Speaker 2: so the stress of their job, but the job may
Speaker 2: not really be what's getting them down. It might be
Speaker 2: that they didn't think life would work out the way
Speaker 2: it's worked out. You know, it's a much bigger issue
Speaker 2: that they thought perhaps maybe they'd be married now, or
Speaker 2: maybe they wouldn't be on their second partner, or maybe
Speaker 2: they'd have kids or you know. It's so complex and
Speaker 2: it's hiding things, I guess, but not wanting to lose things.
Speaker 2: And you certainly see with clothing that people feel like
Speaker 2: they're twenty still. I'm sure you do, Craig.
Speaker 1: I'm a bad example because my wardrobe is extremely limited.
Speaker 1: But I know what you're saying.
Speaker 2: So people don't want to get rid of things that
Speaker 2: give them memories of being out when they were twenty right,
Speaker 2: So they're forty five, they're fifty now, but they're hanging
Speaker 2: onto the clothing that is joy. I remember I wore
Speaker 2: that blue dress and we went here. I used to
Speaker 2: wear that all the time. I can't get rid of that,
Speaker 2: and it's the time's gone so fast that there's no
Speaker 2: way they're probably ever wearing that again. However, letting go
Speaker 2: of something that they enjoyed in their life or a
Speaker 2: past and then seeing where they are in the present
Speaker 2: is such a cliche that they can't let it go.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: A lot of portraits, which is really all family pictures,
Speaker 2: but they have a second family and addressing that on
Speaker 2: National TVs pretty full on. I watched an episode where
Speaker 2: it certainly ended in tears for everyone because you've been
Speaker 2: confronted about why have you got your husband or your
Speaker 2: ex husband's exit, you know, these certain items when you're
Speaker 2: married to me and we have our own family, don't
Speaker 2: you love me? Or you know, all those conversations come
Speaker 2: out and it's it's so much deeper than what you think.
Speaker 1: Wow, that is really interesting, and I guess there is.
Speaker 1: You know with some I would get it with some things,
Speaker 1: like you said, my mom, you know, my mum gave
Speaker 1: me this and now my mum's not here anymore. So
Speaker 1: I get that. But when there's like mountains of stuff,
Speaker 1: I guess on some level people must must have some
Speaker 1: emotional and psychological and or psychological attachment to that thing.
Speaker 1: And if they give that those genes away that they
Speaker 1: haven't mourned since nineteen eighty eight, they feel, like, you know,
Speaker 1: that must represent a hole in their heart or a
Speaker 1: hole in their life in some way. And that is because,
Speaker 1: I mean, the problem is not the It's like the
Speaker 1: hoarding is the end result. It's like, yes, it's like
Speaker 1: you know, when we talk about obesity and being overweight
Speaker 1: or being unhealll feel being unfit. It's like, well, having
Speaker 1: that body that doesn't work optimally, that body that's, for
Speaker 1: one of a better term, out of shape or not
Speaker 1: optimally functional. That's really the byproduct of the choices that
Speaker 1: you're making, Craig and your lifestyle. Craig and the boot
Speaker 1: and all the things you're putting in your body, they're
Speaker 1: the problems. The consequence, Craig is now you're one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty kilos and your blood pressures through the roof
Speaker 1: and you're pre diabetic, if not diabetic, and it fucking
Speaker 1: hurts to get in and out of the car, and
Speaker 1: you know, so it's almost like that's the consequence, But
Speaker 1: the underlying problem is something like I'm trying to medicate
Speaker 1: myself with food. I'm trying to numb out with food.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to distract myself with food. And these are
Speaker 1: psychological and emotional drivers that end up in a physical outcome.
Speaker 1: And I guess there must be psychological and emotional drivers
Speaker 1: which make people hold on to things that they actually
Speaker 1: don't need.
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm going to read this whole book
Speaker 2: because I bought the book because I was interested in
Speaker 2: I haven't yet. I've just sort of opened it up
Speaker 2: to take on my next holiday. Once i've read it,
Speaker 2: i'll give it to you and we can break this
Speaker 2: down for the listeners. Because I do not feel qualified
Speaker 2: until i've read the book. I want to know.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what. That's why I said we're having a chat.
Speaker 1: I don't think either obviously qualified to unpack that too much,
Speaker 1: but it's fucking interesting conversation. Nonetheless, I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: you because something you are qualified to talk about and
Speaker 1: me to a lesser extent. But you know, it seems
Speaker 1: like every ten minutes, there's a new theory, there's a
Speaker 1: new ideology, there's a new program, there's a new prescription
Speaker 1: around food, there's new research that contradicts last week's research.
Speaker 2: And it's like a girl that's in your scene.
Speaker 1: Really right, And so there's I mean, and there are
Speaker 1: a myriad of ideologies and philosophies and programs and books
Speaker 1: and even research the it, like I said, contradicts last
Speaker 1: week's research. What do we know for sure? And what
Speaker 1: don't we know, Like what's a bit like question mark
Speaker 1: asterisk in the food realm or in the nutrition realm,
Speaker 1: And what do we absolutely know that's not debatable? And
Speaker 1: I mean, I know this is a big question. There's
Speaker 1: a million things, but it's like, I'll shut up after this.
Speaker 1: But it's like one of my friends said to me
Speaker 1: the other day, not a friend, actually somebody that I know.
Speaker 1: So it's an acquaintance that they're eating one time a day,
Speaker 1: which again, this is just what they're doing everyone, not
Speaker 1: a recommendation, and it works and they feel great through
Speaker 1: the day cognitively and all of these things. I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. And then I was thinking about it later
Speaker 1: and I thought, well, probably One of the reasons that
Speaker 1: it's working for them, if it is, is just that
Speaker 1: the total calorie intake just happens to be down because
Speaker 1: they're only eating once a day. So maybe it's not
Speaker 1: the once a day model as much as it is
Speaker 1: just that, well, over all, your calories are down compared
Speaker 1: to what they used to be.
Speaker 2: I can break that one down for you. It's less decisions.
Speaker 2: So apparently we think about food over three hundred times
Speaker 2: a day. Oh should I snack on this? Am I
Speaker 2: still hungry? Am I going to have more? When am
Speaker 2: I going to eat? What am I going to buy
Speaker 2: for dinner? Did I just eat some cookie in the kitchen?
Speaker 2: Or do I leave it on the bench? So we
Speaker 2: think about food all the time. So if you're restricted
Speaker 2: to eating once a day, then perhaps you're like Steve
Speaker 2: Jobs with his his same outfit every day. Perhaps you
Speaker 2: not wasting energy on things. However, can I just say
Speaker 2: all this intermitt and fasting research, and all the fasting
Speaker 2: research predominantly has been done on men, and when you
Speaker 2: start to consider women and their cycles and what happens.
Speaker 2: I'm only really just delving into this now because I
Speaker 2: think so much has come up in the media about
Speaker 2: fast like a girl with mindy pelts and teaching people
Speaker 2: to do water fast and when to do it to
Speaker 2: time up with their cycles. I did not recognize it.
Speaker 2: In the second half of the menstrual cycles. You've got
Speaker 2: first half where you've got the bleed and then you yeah,
Speaker 2: you've got ovulation. Then the second half, the last fourteen days,
Speaker 2: you actually increase your calorie outputs by zero point one
Speaker 2: six calories percular body mass per hour. So it's the
Speaker 2: equivalent of about two to three hundred calories extra per
Speaker 2: day you burn every fourteen days as a female.
Speaker 1: Wow, as a menstruating female. Does that stop at menopause?
Speaker 1: I guess it does.
Speaker 2: Yes, So it all changes again, I guess because it's
Speaker 2: a body preparing the line at the uterus to shit.
Speaker 2: And then so once you start delving into the cycle
Speaker 2: and what physically happens in the female body and the
Speaker 2: energy that goes towards that, and it doesn't stop for
Speaker 2: thirty years. It depends on the person. But I mean,
Speaker 2: it goes worth all different lengths. But that has not
Speaker 2: been considered in a lot of the science. It's out there,
Speaker 2: and the reason behind that is because if we're studying
Speaker 2: something like intermittent fasting, you study it on a man, well,
Speaker 2: they're assuming men are all the same, whereas with women
Speaker 2: they need to look at the times in the cycle
Speaker 2: and everything sort of costs three times the amount to
Speaker 2: do the study as just doing it on men. So
Speaker 2: that's why you don't find a lot of the research
Speaker 2: on women that.
Speaker 1: Is so interesting that you said that it is more
Speaker 1: expensive to do that research on women, so they do it.
Speaker 1: Do you know what is this is? I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't want to shoot myself in the foot or throw
Speaker 1: science under the bus, but this is so interesting, isn't
Speaker 1: it when you think about just that as one of
Speaker 1: literally thousands and tens of thousands of like science is
Speaker 1: meant to be pure, like it's like we're just meant
Speaker 1: to and obviously it isn't. Some science is amazing, But
Speaker 1: as I always say, the problem with sciences that humans
Speaker 1: created it, Humans facilitated humans do the research. Some research
Speaker 1: gets funded by organizations with agendas, of course, and then
Speaker 1: the humans who do the research interpret it and want
Speaker 1: to often produce a certain outcome. So there is nothing
Speaker 1: close to objectivity, right, absolutely all about the science. Will
Speaker 1: then clearly you've never been to a university because it's
Speaker 1: about it's about a research lab. It's about lots of things,
Speaker 1: including the science.
Speaker 2: That's not all read the footnotes of who pay for it.
Speaker 2: As soon as you delve into that, then you look
Speaker 2: at it through a completely different lens and you read
Speaker 2: it all over again.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and you think, oh, wow, like that what
Speaker 1: you just said. Firstly, I didn't know that that is
Speaker 1: a revenue. So did you say the first fourteen days
Speaker 1: or the second fourth and.
Speaker 2: Days, second fourteen days? So in the first fourteen days,
Speaker 2: because you've got the bleeding phase, and then you then
Speaker 2: the fourteenth day or thereabout somewhere in that window, you've
Speaker 2: got the ovulation. But then after the ovulation, the body
Speaker 2: is set up the lining of the uterus to potentially
Speaker 2: house the embryo fetus of the terminology wrong bus. So
Speaker 2: you're actually forgot a hyper metabolic state, so you're burning
Speaker 2: more calories. And they say it's actually not good to
Speaker 2: fast then, or maybe even intimate and fasting, because females
Speaker 2: also are more able to burn fat than meant so
Speaker 2: we're better fat burners. Apparently we're better at storing fat,
Speaker 2: we're better at burning fat, and That's why we tend
Speaker 2: to probably be better at endurance. And all of our
Speaker 2: hormones at cascade throughout this period are going up and down,
Speaker 2: and they play with our mood and everything else, but
Speaker 2: they also play with our metabolic rate and the way
Speaker 2: that we store and process food. And I think ultimately
Speaker 2: understanding that helps you, as a female go no wonder.
Speaker 2: I find it easy to diet or hard to diet,
Speaker 2: or easy to stick something or hard because these massive
Speaker 2: cascading levels of estrogen, progesterone, the lutinizing hormone, all these
Speaker 2: different hormones going throughout our body. And if we're not
Speaker 2: in touch with that, and I'm not someone who really knows,
Speaker 2: you know, day one to twenty eight of my cycle,
Speaker 2: I never really have paid attention. But I've had two children,
Speaker 2: and that's just not planned, just lucky, or people might
Speaker 2: say I'm lucky, but lucky for me, and well, a
Speaker 2: lot of the friends that I know just do pay
Speaker 2: attention to that. And I think what we're starting, what
Speaker 2: I'm starting to appreciate having two young daughters, is it.
Speaker 2: I think it's really important to actually understand it, because
Speaker 2: no wonder, mood changes and I'm not someone who's ever
Speaker 2: really thought they had PMS or had changes and bits
Speaker 2: and pieces like other women might. However, I think once
Speaker 2: you start to be more in touch with that, and
Speaker 2: if you're thinking about teaching your own daughters and my
Speaker 2: daughters at ten and twelve about these I really need
Speaker 2: to know as much as I can because I want
Speaker 2: to give them the right information. And it's not taught
Speaker 2: in schools. It's definitely not passed down generations. I can
Speaker 2: tell you right now, my mum did not pass down
Speaker 2: any of this information. I don't think she had it either.
Speaker 2: She most women don't even talk about menopause. So there
Speaker 2: is this whole side of science that perhaps has just
Speaker 2: never been.
Speaker 1: Done on women. That is I mean, that is so interesting,
Speaker 1: That is so relevant for so many people. This is
Speaker 1: a good conversation. I'm excited. I like obviously from an
Speaker 1: excise prescription and programming point of view, there are you know,
Speaker 1: there are variables between men and women, and of course
Speaker 1: I guess it makes sense with nutrition as well, but
Speaker 1: there's that much of a not a difference, but there's
Speaker 1: that much that we need to pay attention to to
Speaker 1: be able to understand women's nutritional needs.
Speaker 2: And exercise prescription. There are experts in this that I
Speaker 2: didn't know until I delved him that you apparently the
Speaker 2: women are not supposed to do high intensity or as
Speaker 2: high intensity exercise during certain parts of the cycle because
Speaker 2: obviously you've got this increased metabolism anyway, but you've apparently
Speaker 2: your best after the bleed, so after the first you know,
Speaker 2: five to seven days, depending on the person, because you've
Speaker 2: got this rise in estrogen. So you've got this lift
Speaker 2: in your mood, this lift in your energy, and that
Speaker 2: is when you can train really, really hard. And even
Speaker 2: with strength training you get more gains. And I think
Speaker 2: what we don't even hear a lot about is with
Speaker 2: strength training in males and females, that both males and
Speaker 2: females have estrogen testosterone, and how do you get those
Speaker 2: to work for you when with you and for men
Speaker 2: it's assumed that everything's pretty steady, but for women, we
Speaker 2: know it literally hits the roof and then it hits
Speaker 2: the floor, and it's not fact, did it.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, it's really I mean to be able to
Speaker 1: And this is one of the things about you know,
Speaker 1: broadly speaking, we talk about exercise programming, nutrition, and it's
Speaker 1: like when somebody says to me, Craig, what's the best
Speaker 1: way to do X Y Z, And I say, well,
Speaker 1: for who, Because the answer to that question will be
Speaker 1: twenty different answers for twenty different people. Because everybody not
Speaker 1: only obviously men and women different, but women and women
Speaker 1: are different. Men and men are different, you know, twenty
Speaker 1: year olds and forty year olds are different. Everybody's genetically
Speaker 1: predisposed to respond or interact in a different way with
Speaker 1: different stimuli. And it's trying to figure out, you know,
Speaker 1: how your body, like I don't know about you, but
Speaker 1: speaking about you know, menstrual cycles and something, menstrual cycles
Speaker 1: and such like, some women fly through that with like
Speaker 1: very little disturbance or issue or problem, and then for
Speaker 1: some women it's a fucking nightmare every four weeks, you know,
Speaker 1: And it's like wow, and there's no I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: there's a reason, but there's no obvious apparent reason why
Speaker 1: that should be so different.
Speaker 2: I find that fascinating too, because mine has never bothered me.
Speaker 2: I haven't paid enough attention to it now that I've
Speaker 2: got girls that are potentially going to go through this.
Speaker 2: And I heard a very close person to be said
Speaker 2: to me the other day, Oh, my doctor thinks maybe
Speaker 2: I should get a hysterectomy. And I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: do not do that unresearched. You do not appreciate the
Speaker 2: role that those hormones are playing in your body. If
Speaker 2: you do not need one, do not do that unresearched.
Speaker 2: It could be the worst thing you would ever ever do.
Speaker 2: And I know that people My auntie was forced to
Speaker 2: have one in her twenties, early twenties, I think it was,
Speaker 2: and I know that that played havoc for her with
Speaker 2: the way that she felt about everything. And of course
Speaker 2: it will because you're taking out, you know, that hormonal balance.
Speaker 2: It is supposed to be there for maybe up until
Speaker 2: we're in our forties or fifties, So to lose that
Speaker 2: in your twenties definitely disturbs your emotions and a lot
Speaker 2: lot more.
Speaker 1: You know, And this is a real case for you know,
Speaker 1: everything is like, you know, everything is an integration. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like the mind, the body, the emotions, the cardiovascular system,
Speaker 1: the endocrime system, the muscular system, you know, the reproductive system.
Speaker 1: Like in research and science, it all operates in disparate
Speaker 1: this over here and then we've got that over there,
Speaker 1: then we've got that. But in reality, you know, as
Speaker 1: as a as a functional human, everything affects everything all the time,
Speaker 1: you know. And it's like, and I've said this too
Speaker 1: many times, but you have a thought which is a
Speaker 1: non physical thing, a thought, and then that might all
Speaker 1: of that thought could create a physiological response like elevated
Speaker 1: heart rate or breathing or blood pressure or cortisol or
Speaker 1: don't mean whatever, the thought is right, and like, nothing
Speaker 1: operates in isolation. And that's why sometimes you think, I
Speaker 1: wish my endochronologists could talk to my dietitian could talk
Speaker 1: to my ep exos physiologists could talk to my s
Speaker 1: you could talk. I wish I had a whole fucking
Speaker 1: team rather than people going, well, I'm an expert in that,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to tell you to get your thyroid out,
Speaker 1: but my naturopaths going no, don't fucking do that. Don't
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: Is the problem with our whole healthcare system. My very
Speaker 2: best girlfriend, who works in intensive care will undeniably tell
Speaker 2: you that the whole healthcare system is pretty much stuffed
Speaker 2: because we just specialize on one part of it. We
Speaker 2: don't have communication with everyone else in their different specialties,
Speaker 2: and that is not how you create a healthy well organism.
Speaker 2: It's like saying, I'm going to take my car for
Speaker 2: a service, but today I'm going to get the right wheel.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow I'm going to get the freakin' engine. The next time,
Speaker 2: I'm going to look at the exhaust, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to look at the gearbox. And I know nothing about cars,
Speaker 2: but I know that that's probably not the way you
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: But also sometimes you'll take your car to the mechanic
Speaker 1: and you'll go can you look at the engine? And
Speaker 1: he or she goes, oh my god, we need to
Speaker 1: do this. It's going to cost you eight grand. Then
Speaker 1: you take it to another mechanic, same qualification, and they go, no,
Speaker 1: not at all. You just need a head gasket. It's
Speaker 1: going to be a grand. Yeah. So not only is there.
Speaker 2: But to test it, you turn on the car, so
Speaker 2: the whole thing has to work. Testings in the specialist
Speaker 2: world will fix this broken bit. Let's see if the
Speaker 2: whole body works.
Speaker 4: You know, yes, yes, and you think exactly, and then
Speaker 4: you think about like the fact that and this is
Speaker 4: not a slight on the medical profession or doctors because
Speaker 4: that's the way that they were trained.
Speaker 1: But I mean, how many people could avoid medication. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying in all cases, of course, but if, for example,
Speaker 1: they had less stress, they had more movement, they had
Speaker 1: better nutrition, they had better sleep, they had a job
Speaker 1: that they loved. And I know I'm talking idellically everybody,
Speaker 1: I get that. But rather than saying, well, you're stressed, here,
Speaker 1: take this. What if you're stressed, here, do some box breathing.
Speaker 1: Try this, yes, or try try training, because we know
Speaker 1: that exercise is one of the best treatments for anxiety
Speaker 1: and stress. We know that, we know it. You know,
Speaker 1: it affects your nervous system, affects all the hormones stress
Speaker 1: on you know. And of course there is a real
Speaker 1: clinical need, of course for certain drugs for certain conditions,
Speaker 1: of course, But I just feel like all you need
Speaker 1: to do these days is show up and go oh,
Speaker 1: I feel like that, and it's boom, here's three prescriptions.
Speaker 1: And I just don't know that the trajectory we're on
Speaker 1: that it's really creating a healthy population.
Speaker 2: It's not sustainable long term. And especially what you said
Speaker 2: about depression anxiety. Look at the Smiles trial with the
Speaker 2: Professor Police Jacko, who looked at cognant behavioral therapy or
Speaker 2: counseling for people with anxiety and depression versus putting them
Speaker 2: on a medi Trainean diet. People that went on their
Speaker 2: Metiterranean diet got remission rates of twenty five to thirty
Speaker 2: five percent. People that did the traditional counseling got seven percent.
Speaker 2: So change your food, change your mental health. And we
Speaker 2: all know there is nobody on the planet that cannot
Speaker 2: say after they went for a walk or did a
Speaker 2: work out that they didn't feel better, no matter what
Speaker 2: the stress is or after sleep. And I used to
Speaker 2: always think it was nutrition, exercise, sleep, and now I'm
Speaker 2: completely the other way. I think it's definitely sleep first,
Speaker 2: exercise second, and maybe maybe nutrition last. I being exose
Speaker 2: physiologist and dietitian, I always put nutrition first. But I
Speaker 2: think no matter who you are or what you do,
Speaker 2: if you move your body, you feel better. And if
Speaker 2: you feel better, then you're going to make better choices
Speaker 2: with your nutrition. Whereas if you feel like crap, well yeah,
Speaker 2: it's going to be hard to eat well.
Speaker 1: Now, listeners, if you can hear that little noise that's
Speaker 1: coming from Kate's mic or something. It sounds like a
Speaker 1: little burp coming through. I'm just telling you everyone, I'm
Speaker 1: not burping. Neither's Kate. Maybe it's your headset or something
Speaker 1: that's very funny. But I want to tell you, pursuant
Speaker 1: to this particular conversation you're honor, that there's another book
Speaker 1: for you to put on your list if you haven't
Speaker 1: read it already. It is by an author and researcher
Speaker 1: called Abigail Shreier. Abigail Shreier who interviewed hundreds of therapists
Speaker 1: and psychologists and psychiatrists, and the name of the book
Speaker 1: is Bad Therapy. And basically what they've discovered is that
Speaker 1: talk therapy for some people as good and for some
Speaker 1: people makes it worse. So, you know, for some people
Speaker 1: going and talking to you know, Barry or Sally the
Speaker 1: psychologist or psychiatrist every Tuesday afternoon at four to open
Speaker 1: that door on that thing that happened five years ago,
Speaker 1: and now I'm reliving the trauma and now I'm talking
Speaker 1: about that again, and now I'm emotional, and now I
Speaker 1: feel all of these things. Now I'm not throwing it
Speaker 1: under the bus, but there's they now know that for
Speaker 1: some people, some people talk therapy is good. Like some
Speaker 1: people can eat nuts, not everyone can. Some people can
Speaker 1: drink milk, not everybody can. It's the same thing, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't work for everybody, and so to assume that.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting when I started, I'm halfway through it.
Speaker 1: But when I heard about this book, I heard her
Speaker 1: on another podcast, I went, ah, that's like me, that's
Speaker 1: like me. Now I don't me and therapy. I think
Speaker 1: therapy is great for certain people. And I'm the first
Speaker 1: to go, oh, I've got issues hundred percent. I've got issues.
Speaker 1: I've got things I need to sort through. Do I
Speaker 1: overthink yep? Have I ever got yep? But the way
Speaker 1: that it works for me is I might talk to
Speaker 1: somebody when I want to, like a person like you,
Speaker 1: I might go, hey, I'm dealing with Then you go no, no, no.
Speaker 1: But for me to go sit in a chair and
Speaker 1: then on queue just talk about shit. For me, that
Speaker 1: isn't the protocol. I tend to go a little bit inward.
Speaker 1: I'm very solution focused. I'm all about, Okay, this is
Speaker 1: the problem. How do I fix the problem. And then generally,
Speaker 1: like a day later, or two days later or a
Speaker 1: week later, I'll emerge like a little worm sticking his
Speaker 1: head out of the hole, and I'll go, Okay, it's
Speaker 1: not like, oh, I'm all better now, but I've got
Speaker 1: some clarity. I've got some clarity that anxiety that was
Speaker 1: there as subsided. I you know. But it's just interesting
Speaker 1: that some of the things that we thought were you know,
Speaker 1: it's like when people go, oh, you need to go
Speaker 1: and talk to someone. Yeah, maybe not, maybe not.
Speaker 2: I do you know what? I couldn't agree more. I
Speaker 2: find that spending time with my closest friend is the
Speaker 2: best therapy I can ever ever have because your good
Speaker 2: friends don't judge you. They don't make assumptions about who
Speaker 2: you are, and I'm sure a good therapist doesn't either.
Speaker 2: But I think the feeling is, this person's going to
Speaker 2: judge me, this person's going to put me in this
Speaker 2: box here, this person's going to assume X about me.
Speaker 2: So either we don't open up, or we open up
Speaker 2: but we feel like we're being judged, and then maybe
Speaker 2: we change our story a little bit. And yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I couldn't agree more that I see a lot
Speaker 2: of people that get a lot of help from it,
Speaker 2: but I feel like they've made a human connection that
Speaker 2: it's perhaps not the therapy itself, it's the human connection
Speaker 2: with another person that they feel gets them and doesn't
Speaker 2: judge them.
Speaker 1: I've spoken about this a few times before. You might
Speaker 1: have heard of it, but the University of South Australia
Speaker 1: published some research I think it was November last year
Speaker 1: looking at the impact which you've already spoken about, but
Speaker 1: looking at the impact of exercise on depression and anxiety
Speaker 1: as a treatment protocol. Yeah, an as an intervention.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 1: In this particular study, it outpformed all the drugs by far.
Speaker 1: Now again we're not saying drugs are terrible. We're not
Speaker 1: saying there is no place for medicine. Not saying that.
Speaker 1: We're saying that. You know, like when you think, you
Speaker 1: think about, well, what does a drug do to your body?
Speaker 1: It changes you buy a chemistry like it changes, right,
Speaker 1: And what does exercise do? Ah changes you buy a
Speaker 1: chemistry like what it's It's you're doing something to your body,
Speaker 1: like you're moving your body or you're putting some external
Speaker 1: thing in your body. But the reason that you're doing
Speaker 1: that is you're trying to make your body feel a
Speaker 1: certain way or produce a certain outcome. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's like you hug someone, you're changing, you buy a chemistry. Now,
Speaker 1: here's the interesting thing about that. You go to a
Speaker 1: fucking you know, a wedding where you're just with you know,
Speaker 1: and you meet that relative that you really don't like
Speaker 1: and you've got to give them a hug. Well, the
Speaker 1: chemicals that you're producing are way different to when you
Speaker 1: hug your grandma that you fucking love, right, yes, so
Speaker 1: the same thing produces a different outcome depending on how
Speaker 1: you feel about that person that you are hugging.
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely creepy, So a ringe of hug hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like obviously this before too, you know. So
Speaker 1: I'm a motorcyclist. So I've got four bikes and I
Speaker 1: love bikes, and I every now and then someone will
Speaker 1: jump on the back and go for a ride. Now,
Speaker 1: depending on how a person feels about that, they're going
Speaker 1: to be on the back producing adrenaline and cortisol and
Speaker 1: or they're fucking going to be in doorphins and dopamine
Speaker 1: and loving it. So either something bad or something good
Speaker 1: is happening in their body, depending on how they feel
Speaker 1: about being on a motorbike with squeeze and nuts up
Speaker 1: the front taking them along beach road or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: I would least literally just had that experience. I went
Speaker 2: on the back of a boat bike with a girlfriend
Speaker 2: of mine and she's tiny and rides motorbikes, and she's like,
Speaker 2: just hang hang on.
Speaker 1: Not too tight.
Speaker 2: Apparently my inner size crushed her because I was hanging
Speaker 2: on for dear life and I didn't want to grab
Speaker 2: her around the neck because she's so lit, but I
Speaker 2: crushed in with my leg. She's like, just relax, just
Speaker 2: have fun. All I could think about was my bleeding
Speaker 2: body across the road.
Speaker 3: Just like, nothing fun about that is it is really
Speaker 3: and that's the relationship that we have or our story
Speaker 3: about whatever it is.
Speaker 1: It's like because I'm more relaxed on a motorbike than
Speaker 1: in a car. Oh yeah, I definitely definitely. I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm if I'm traveling somewhere, ten times, nine of those
Speaker 1: times will be on a motorbike. Like, I do not
Speaker 1: drive very much. I typically only drive if I have
Speaker 1: to or if it's raining, and even then, unless it's
Speaker 1: heavy rain, I might still take a motorbike, you know.
Speaker 2: So like you're very trusting of other people then because
Speaker 2: I think that's my fear. I would jump out of
Speaker 2: an airplane because I could pull my parachute, and I've
Speaker 2: done that and I quite enjoy that. But getting on
Speaker 2: a motorbike where some idiots might something stupid on the road.
Speaker 1: I don't trust them. Yeah, I don't blame you. I
Speaker 1: don't blame you. Hey, I just I'm looking at the time.
Speaker 1: We've got to be quick. I want to circle back
Speaker 1: to one thing that you said, because I feel like
Speaker 1: some people might go, is that true? You said that
Speaker 1: women are more efficient? Did you say it fat burning
Speaker 1: than men fat? Yes? Okay, Then my question is why
Speaker 1: do women typically not always, of course everyone, but typically
Speaker 1: why do women have a higher body fat percentage?
Speaker 2: So they can use it? You can use it, so
Speaker 2: that body fat there is there to make sure that
Speaker 2: you can ovulate and that you can carry a baby,
Speaker 2: and it's there to be used. So how much of
Speaker 2: it do we need? Well, not as much as seventy
Speaker 2: percent of the population, but we need it, and it's
Speaker 2: really critical. We know we can't feel pregnant without it,
Speaker 2: that if your body weighs too though, you will not
Speaker 2: fall pregnant. That we know that fat actually produces chemicals
Speaker 2: as well and hormone, so we need certain levels of fat,
Speaker 2: and that fat plays a metabolic role, which for years
Speaker 2: we thought it didn't. We thought it was just a
Speaker 2: storage of energy that did nothing, and now we know
Speaker 2: it's a metabolic tissue. So it definitely plays a role.
Speaker 2: And I certainly have seen rat in my studies where
Speaker 2: they talk about fat storage and actually putting a say
Speaker 2: a stone in a backpack of a rat or like
Speaker 2: a backpack over rat and getting them to exercise and
Speaker 2: then taking it away, and it's the pull of gravity
Speaker 2: from the weight that changes their body weight and their appetite.
Speaker 2: So they eat up to that extra weight because of
Speaker 2: the pull of gravity. So there's something about fat cells
Speaker 2: that regulates fat cells. So that's what that study was
Speaker 2: all about. It was just saying that it's not just gravity,
Speaker 2: it's also fat cells controlling our weight, not lean muscle cells.
Speaker 2: That's why when people lose weight on say something like
Speaker 2: ozen pic they lose is it really really quickly, or
Speaker 2: maybe they lose it in fat dieting or some other way,
Speaker 2: they tend to regain the fat weight first, because the
Speaker 2: fat weight has a some sort of regulator around it
Speaker 2: and then you regain the lean body mass. But most
Speaker 2: people start dieting again before they gain the lean body mass,
Speaker 2: so then they put on more and more fat, and
Speaker 2: that's why you're Your dieting ends up in people becoming
Speaker 2: more and more higher percentage of body fat. Whereas, if
Speaker 2: in fact you weighted, your lean body mass would come
Speaker 2: back and then your metabolic rate would go up again
Speaker 2: and then you could get rid of more body fat
Speaker 2: and it would be more successful. So don't quit too
Speaker 2: early is really the key.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. So when you lose weight quickly, everyone
Speaker 1: you lose what you're losing. When you lose let's say
Speaker 1: you're I hate this, you know number thing, But let's
Speaker 1: just say you eighty kilos and you'd like to be sixty, right,
Speaker 1: and I'm not. We're more concerned with body composition, how
Speaker 1: you're put together, rather than a number on the scales.
Speaker 1: But let's just say so the quicker that you lose
Speaker 1: that twenty kilos. So if you lose two or three
Speaker 1: kilos a week, which is a lot if you only
Speaker 1: weigh eighty, it's too much you're losing in this order.
Speaker 1: You're losing water, muscle fat in that order, and then
Speaker 1: when you regain it, which most people will, especially with
Speaker 1: rapid weight loss, what you regain it water fat, muscle last,
Speaker 1: and so as Kate said, you might end up back
Speaker 1: at eighty kilos, but with respect, now you're fatter, So
Speaker 1: now you've got a higher body fat percentage unless lean
Speaker 1: tissue or muscle, and you're back at the same weight.
Speaker 1: So it is that what's your rough guide. My guide
Speaker 1: is about one percent of body weight is not a
Speaker 1: bad rate per week. So if someone weighed ninety kilos
Speaker 1: to lose like point nine or sixty kilos point six
Speaker 1: a week or one hundred and twenty one point two,
Speaker 1: do you have a rough weight loss guide that's kind
Speaker 1: of works for you?
Speaker 2: Really really interesting point. I love that analogy and I
Speaker 2: think that's a nice sustainable way to do it. But
Speaker 2: with human beings and their interactions with food, and they're
Speaker 2: three hundred thoughts a day, I've seen the most success
Speaker 2: with people getting off as much as they can whilst
Speaker 2: they're motivated, but instilling good behaviors along the way, which
Speaker 2: include taking up exercise if they don't exercise. So I
Speaker 2: tend to find the best outcomes so when they can
Speaker 2: get a block of weight off and then tell them
Speaker 2: to stop and just live at that new weight for
Speaker 2: three months, six months a year, get comfortable at that
Speaker 2: new weight, then try and lose your next block of weight.
Speaker 2: So that's why I've seen the biggest success.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's interesting, So kind of not go nuts, but
Speaker 1: kind of go nuts.
Speaker 2: And then because your motivation only lasts a short period
Speaker 2: of time, so use it. Why it's there, and then
Speaker 2: you feel good. Right, once you've hit a particular weight,
Speaker 2: you feel good. And when you feel good, you look
Speaker 2: after yourself. So don't go too long that you start
Speaker 2: to regain weight and you feel crappy again. So whilst
Speaker 2: you're feeling good, relax, hold that weight and then have
Speaker 2: another crackerdote again. So do it in blocks.
Speaker 1: Is that now, I'm not questioning that. Is there any research,
Speaker 1: Like I know you do all your own research and
Speaker 1: you're constantly working with people. Is there actually any research
Speaker 1: on that particular protocol.
Speaker 2: I haven't looked really deeply into that. It is my anecdotal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've seen ten thousand people lose weight, and I think
Speaker 2: the ones that are most successful when they've lost a
Speaker 2: big block, right, their weight goes back up, but it
Speaker 2: doesn't go back up to where it started. And then
Speaker 2: they have another go and they lose a little bit more.
Speaker 2: They take a break, so they could be within you know,
Speaker 2: lose ten kilos in six months, and then they might
Speaker 2: put on one or two kilo and then they might
Speaker 2: go well next year, my goal is to lose another
Speaker 2: four kilos. So they lose another four kilos, they put
Speaker 2: on one or two kilos, there's still twelve kilos down
Speaker 2: from where they started. Don't check my math set, but
Speaker 2: you know, so you progressively get there. But I think
Speaker 2: when the motivation's high, make the changes, because if you
Speaker 2: do not make the changes, then you may, particularly with women,
Speaker 2: during a cycle, your weight can change by two to
Speaker 2: three kilos. I know that mine does. So all your
Speaker 2: motivations are lost in that twenty eight days as your
Speaker 2: weight just cycles through holding more water than those sorts
Speaker 2: of things.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, we're going to do it. You and I
Speaker 1: are going to do a show on motivation one day.
Speaker 1: The other thing, too, though, is over the long term,
Speaker 1: we need our behavior and our habits to outlast our motivation.
Speaker 1: Otherwise we're going to spend the next thirty years stopping
Speaker 1: and starting stuff. Right, So eventually we need to get
Speaker 1: to the point where we've created a new normal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a sustainable way. Like if you're going to
Speaker 2: say I'm giving out chocolate forever, I'll just never blink
Speaker 2: at chocolate again. Well, is that actually going to work?
Speaker 2: Make yourself a rule, have two pieces of chocolate whenever
Speaker 2: you want a piece of chocolate. Or I have a
Speaker 2: rule with chips. I think I've talked about this. I'm
Speaker 2: having hot chips. I'll have ten hot chips. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: have ten hot chips whenever i want ten hot chips.
Speaker 2: I could have ten hot chips every day, but I'm
Speaker 2: only going to have ten's.
Speaker 1: Yea, that's you know. Some people are like, fuck your
Speaker 1: ten chip rules and I had one hundred. Hey Kate,
Speaker 1: how can people find you and follow you and connect
Speaker 1: with you and learn more about befit Food and all
Speaker 1: the things that you do.
Speaker 2: The Beefit Food Australia Instagram or my kates save Instagrams.
Speaker 2: You know's got a bit of stuff there. My LinkedIn
Speaker 2: is probably where I'm most active, so old, so boring
Speaker 2: that I love LinkedIn, so probably there.
Speaker 1: Perfect Well, I appreciate you, thanks so much for coming
Speaker 1: to play on the You project. I know you had
Speaker 1: a very busy day and I only rang you a
Speaker 1: few hours ago in the middle of your mayhem, and
Speaker 1: you went, oh, I'm filming this and I'm doing that,
Speaker 1: and I'm talking to this group and I'm but yeah,
Speaker 1: So thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the
Speaker 1: time my pleasure. Chat soon, Thanks Kate. We'll say goodbye
Speaker 1: a fair but thanks for now.