1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Adrian Pederick, shadow MP in the State Parliament, made this 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: suggestion in Parliament yesterday. 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: But I certainly believe that ramping could be fixed without 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: And here I am trying to help malannounce this lay 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: of a government trying to help all South Australians. I 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: think it could be fixed without spending a single dollar 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: on any infrastructure. And I don't think the public would 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: stand up, mind you, But if there was a gap 9 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 2: fee for people turning up for emergency that didn't get admitted, 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 2: I think you see a drastic reduction in people attending 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 2: emergency departments. I don't think it would be something politically 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: saleable for probably anyone. 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: So he doesn't think it'll work. It wouldn't get off 14 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: the ground. It's a lead balloon, but interesting a pole 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: in the advertiser today online. Should this happen or not? 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: It's running around at least about an hour or so ago, 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: it was running around sixty to forty in favor of 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: a charge for people turning up to ED. And you 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: think of the ads governments have run. You know that 20 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: the twisted ankle. I've got the twisted ankle up. Where 21 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: are you in the ED? The rah? 22 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 3: Well? 23 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: What are you doing there? Why aren't you at the 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: GPS or the emergency clinic one of the ones that 25 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: have opened, the twenty four to seven clinics operating around 26 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: the place. Why didn't you go to one of those instead? Okay, 27 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: good idea. You know, don't turn up with a sniffle 28 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: to the ED. It's not what it's for all of that. 29 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: So perhaps it's got merit, but I think for it 30 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: to truly work, as I said earlier, you need the 31 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: slickest of GP services. You don't need to be waiting 32 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: a week to see a GP. You don't want to 33 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: be charged one hundred bucks in a GAP to go 34 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: see a GP. And that's why people turn up at EDS. 35 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: So if we had a really good general practitioner system, 36 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: which needs the federal government to get involved with bulk 37 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: billing and all of that, and more GPS in training, 38 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: everything that needs to happen there, and then perhaps people 39 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: won't be turning up in EDS. And if they do 40 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: and we've got a really good GP system, well then 41 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: maybe we should be charging them. I love to get 42 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: your thoughts on this as we go through. Doctor John 43 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: Williams is President of the AMA. John, good morning, Good morning. 44 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on this. Should people be charged 45 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: turning up to an ED. 46 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 4: No, I really don't think so. I think, you know, 47 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 4: the fundamental problem is a whole system is stretched, is stretched. 48 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 4: We need capacity at every part. Ramping is just a 49 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 4: symptom of the whole system under thtretch. So no, I 50 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 4: really don't believe that this is going to change them all. 51 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: Right, raising money perhaps even put into training for more 52 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: doctors in the hospital system. 53 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 4: No, I don't think this is the right way to 54 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 4: address it. People need to come to d As a 55 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 4: doctor that works in ED, you know, I often see 56 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 4: parents that are concerned about a child that has a 57 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 4: fever or other symptoms, and I encourage them to come 58 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 4: in because they're unsure of where things are at. And 59 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 4: also there's some really serious things that need to be 60 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 4: ruled out, and people don't often have the skills. They 61 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 4: really need a professional eye to look at that child 62 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 4: to work out whether they need to be admitted or 63 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,399 Speaker 4: whether they can be rare shured and sent on their way. 64 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 4: And that is really the safest way. And I don't 65 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 4: want people to be penalized for their concern I don't 66 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 4: want them to be penalized for a system that is 67 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 4: stretched and not working so well. We need to work 68 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 4: on the parts of the system that really need to 69 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 4: be fixed as is mentioned general practice. Absolutely, we do 70 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 4: need increased capacity in oureds. We need to increased capacity, 71 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 4: and we need increased selective surgery capacity. So just charging 72 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 4: people at your if they're not admitted into DA is 73 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 4: not a solution. 74 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: Okay. We run a fair few campaigns saying if you've 75 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: twisted your ankle, got a cold, don't turn up, don't 76 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: go to a need you need to be seen elsewhere. 77 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: And it's truth in that. 78 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 4: Sure. I mean, yes, we want people to you know, 79 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 4: not not use d as their general practice, but I 80 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 4: agree with that. But also as a you know, INFERID, 81 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 4: I don't want people to be put off coming from 82 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 4: to ED. As I said, parents with a child. Also, 83 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 4: elderly popular relation are incredibly sensitive to this. They don't 84 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 4: want to be a drag on the system. And I've 85 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 4: often had elderly patients come in saying I've had chest 86 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 4: pains for a couple of days. I didn't want to 87 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 4: bother your doctor. And but the ore the ones we 88 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 4: really need to see and see early on to help 89 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 4: prevent you know, these things becoming worse and we need 90 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 4: to treat them early. So I don't want the public 91 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 4: to kind of pay the cost for our system not 92 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 4: being at We need to increase the capacity of our 93 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 4: system right from general practice right through to elective surgery. 94 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: All right, John, appreciate you your thoughts. Thank you, Thank you, 95 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: doctor John Williams, President AMA here in South Australia. Chris 96 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: Pickton the essay, Health Minister, good morning. This is a 97 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: gift like manner, isn't it manner from heaven. You're struggling 98 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: under ramping and everything else getting worse in all of 99 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: that sort of capacity area, and an opposition MP gets 100 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: up says this won't fly, but here's what you should do. 101 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much Matthew for having me on. 102 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I think that this would punish patients. I 103 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 3: think that this would cause harm for patients and as 104 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 3: doctor Williams said, we'd turn patients away from the ED 105 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 3: who have serious conditions, and is akin to a US 106 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 3: style healthcare system and not one that we want to 107 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 3: see anywhere in Australia, let alone South Australia. So from 108 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 3: my perspective, you know, we are getting on with the 109 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 3: job of building additional hospital beds, addressing that blockage that 110 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 3: we have in the EDS. Are very very sick people 111 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: who get stuck there, who need care and the rest 112 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 3: of the hospital. But we're not looking to do as 113 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: a government, as a labor government, anything punitive to patients 114 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 3: at the front door. But it was extraordinary to hear 115 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: this from a senior Liberal MP yesterday. This is Vincentazi's 116 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 3: own assistant personal shadow minister raising this and I think 117 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 3: that Adrian Pedrick or Vincent Tazi, who have been dodging 118 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 3: media interviews about this this morning, need to come out 119 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 3: and explain why they think that this is a good idea. 120 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 3: Will they rule it out or is this actually part 121 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 3: of their policy and have they thought through the risks 122 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 3: that there would be in terms of patients not getting 123 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 3: the care that they need because they're worried about the cost. 124 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: And look at the costs of EDS. They're expensive to run, 125 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 3: but people pay their taxes for them a calvary ed. 126 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 3: For example, one of our private emergency departments, the cost 127 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 3: to go there is four hundred and sixty dollars. So 128 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 3: if you put that in place at the RAH, at 129 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 3: the qur E h at Flinder's Medical Center. No doubt 130 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 3: that there would be many people turned away, and that's 131 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 3: what they're saying should happen to fix ramping. I don't 132 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 3: think that that's the answer. I think more capacity, as 133 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 3: doctor Williams was saying in the system is what's needed. 134 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: Is it a bit desperate though, to come out attacking 135 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: Adrian Pedderick when he did say this won't fly, this 136 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: isn't politically saleable. 137 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 3: Well, I think that there is a complete absence at 138 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 3: the moment of any Liberal Party policy. So this is 139 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: the first sign that we've seen of a policy proposal 140 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 3: from them put through the Parliament in our most esteemed 141 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 3: hall of debate yesterday, this was raised by senior Liberal 142 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 3: MP yesterday and now they're dodging interviews to talk about 143 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: to rule it out, to say whether it's part of 144 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 3: their policy or not. I'm being very definitive that this 145 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 3: is not part of Labor Party policy. We will continue 146 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: to build additional hospital beds because the other thing that 147 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: Adrian Pedrick said was that we should stop building help infrastructure. 148 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: We don't need to spend more on health infrastructure. All 149 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: we need to do is whack these charges on patients 150 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 3: and suddenly everything will magically be fixed in the healthcare system. Well, 151 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 3: anybody who's actually spoken to anybody that works in our 152 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 3: emergency departments will tell you that the issue in our 153 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 3: eds are very, very sick people who need to go 154 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: into ward beds, who get stuck in the ED, and 155 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 3: this proposal would do nothing to fix that. It would 156 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 3: hurt patients in a cost of living crisis and potentially 157 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 3: cause some real unintended consequences. As doctor Williams's outlined. 158 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: All right, there'd be people listening saying, fair enough, you're 159 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: a politician attacking an opponent on a thought bubble that 160 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: he said won't fly in any case. But when are 161 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: you going to fix ramping? Because that was the core promise, 162 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: and all that we've done since you've been elected is 163 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: it's doubled. That's what we've achieved. Ramping is doubled. 164 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: But we've always been very clear that what we need 165 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 3: to do was build additional hospital beds because the problem 166 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 3: is very very sick people get stuck in our emergency 167 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 3: departments who've got nowhere to go, and that problems escalating. 168 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 3: We can't go back in time and build hospital beds 169 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: ten years ago. We just have to do it as 170 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 3: fast as possibly. Now. We're fast tracking projects all of 171 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 3: our hospitals across the city. Just this week we've opened 172 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 3: forty eight extra beds at lol McEwen. There's another thirty 173 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 3: two coming next year that will increase the capacity of 174 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 3: that hospital by about twenty percent. Similar projects expanding Flinders 175 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: Qeh no longer Modbrey are all under construction, building a 176 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 3: new Mount Barker hospital to meet the capacity there. There's 177 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: no doubt that our hospitals are under pressure. There's no 178 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 3: doubt that we're seeing very, very stick patients in our 179 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 3: hospital system. That's why it's incumbent upon us as a 180 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: government to build that capacity to make sure the patients 181 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 3: can get the care that they need. And that's what 182 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 3: we're doing. 183 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: All right. Got a great question from Bill, and this 184 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: has been asked before many times. It was asked with 185 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: the old RAH and now it's been asked with the 186 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: Women's and Children's. Are there any plans to keep the 187 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: current Women's and children 's hospital operating as a general 188 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: hospital when the new one opens. We do need another hospital. 189 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: The extra expansion you're talking about there, it is instantly 190 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: right there. 191 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: Well, the only thing I'd say about instantly is that 192 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 3: the new women's Kids hospital won't open until twenty thirty one, 193 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 3: So that's there. I say, there might be another health 194 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 3: ministry in place by twenty thirty one, sure, but I'll 195 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 3: certainly have a lot more gray hairs if I'm still 196 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: there in twenty thirty one. But we need the capacity now, yesterday, 197 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 3: So we are, you know, we're starting to actively tune 198 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 3: our minds to the future of that old site after 199 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 3: the new hospital opens, and we've got some construction works 200 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 3: underway on the new site now. But goes to show 201 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 3: that how how long those brand new hospital projects take 202 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 3: to build in the you know, look at what's happening 203 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 3: in the new Women's and Kids how long that will 204 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 3: be until we get that So it won't be until 205 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 3: seven years down the track that we've got that capacity 206 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 3: and that consideration of that site there we will be 207 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 3: thinking about the future of that site, will no doubt 208 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 3: have more to say about it. But we actively need 209 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 3: beds now, and the fastest way that we can do 210 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 3: that is by building expansions and redevelopments on existing hospitals. 211 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: That we can do that in the course of a 212 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 3: year or two rather than seven years time. 213 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: All right, so more on the way, but I reckon 214 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: in seven years time we're probably going to need more again. 215 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: But anyway, we'll cross that bridge as we go along. 216 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for your time this morning. 217 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 3: Thanks Matti. 218 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: Chris Pichton, the Health Minister. The Libs have put out 219 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: of statement. We certainly asked Adrian Pederick and Vincentasia to 220 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: come on this morning and the statement says an opposition 221 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: spokesperson says mister Pederick was expressing his personal views. They 222 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: were not part of the Liberals' health policies, nor would 223 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: they be in the future. It is no surprise laborers 224 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: left all over this. They scrambling for something to distract 225 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: South Australians from their complete failure to fix ramping into 226 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: escape being held to a ca not the only people 227 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: putting in a new health tax is labor, the GP 228 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: payroll tax. That's the statement from Vincent Tarzi's office this morning. 229 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: But we certainly asked him and Adrian Pederic to come 230 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: on and explain the comments to you all. But that's 231 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: as close as we can get.