1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approche Production. 2 00:00:14,401 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shanned. I'm your host, 3 00:00:16,521 --> 00:00:19,161 Speaker 2: Adam shann. If you like the content of this podcast, 4 00:00:19,201 --> 00:00:22,281 Speaker 2: please like and subscribe it. I've always believed in the 5 00:00:22,321 --> 00:00:24,561 Speaker 2: credo that if you do the crime, you do the time, 6 00:00:25,361 --> 00:00:27,641 Speaker 2: but if there's reasonable doubt, then you're entitled to the 7 00:00:27,641 --> 00:00:31,161 Speaker 2: benefit of that doubt. This is frustrating to some police 8 00:00:31,161 --> 00:00:35,081 Speaker 2: officers who take it personally when a crook gets away 9 00:00:35,081 --> 00:00:37,721 Speaker 2: with their crimes doesn't mean they can load up a 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,761 Speaker 2: suspect and find a way to punish them when they 11 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 2: haven't done their job well enough to lock them up 12 00:00:41,521 --> 00:00:44,761 Speaker 2: fair and square. Out of the reign of former Home 13 00:00:44,801 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: Affairs Minister Peter Dutton, a new form of punishment was 14 00:00:47,921 --> 00:00:52,561 Speaker 2: inactive was called the Character Test, where non citizens living 15 00:00:52,561 --> 00:00:56,041 Speaker 2: in this country were deported solely for more than twelve 16 00:00:56,041 --> 00:00:59,441 Speaker 2: months in prison and being a so called bad character. 17 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,321 Speaker 3: We've got Australian citizens who are falling victim where people 18 00:01:04,321 --> 00:01:06,601 Speaker 3: are sexual affect against children. Have had a big push 19 00:01:06,601 --> 00:01:09,041 Speaker 3: to try and to port those pedophiles, and I believe 20 00:01:09,241 --> 00:01:11,361 Speaker 3: strongly that these Traine people would support that stance. 21 00:01:12,721 --> 00:01:15,401 Speaker 2: I think there's really appeal to Dutton himself a former 22 00:01:15,441 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: police officer, he could play judge and jury and eject 23 00:01:18,441 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: people who paid their debt to society or hadn't offended. 24 00:01:21,721 --> 00:01:25,161 Speaker 2: In decades, I've had two close contacts and friends deported 25 00:01:25,161 --> 00:01:28,121 Speaker 2: from Australia on this basis without the benefit of natural 26 00:01:28,321 --> 00:01:33,401 Speaker 2: justice or indeed basic fairness. In both cases, dossier is 27 00:01:33,441 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: prepared by police, represented as fact, even though the information 28 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:42,041 Speaker 2: was hearsay and perhaps motivated by malice, a square up 29 00:01:42,041 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: by police who couldn't do their job well enough. 30 00:01:45,521 --> 00:01:48,001 Speaker 4: The Opposition leader Peter Dutton has the view that if 31 00:01:48,001 --> 00:01:51,881 Speaker 4: somebody has committed a terrorism fence, they have broken the 32 00:01:52,121 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 4: oath to Australia and should therefore be deported. 33 00:01:56,321 --> 00:02:00,521 Speaker 2: Another man recently who's facing deportation based on this character test, 34 00:02:01,241 --> 00:02:05,921 Speaker 2: Gary John Lewer, is a former champion bodybuilder, Mister Australia 35 00:02:05,961 --> 00:02:09,961 Speaker 2: winner who represented this country internationally, winning Mister World and 36 00:02:10,001 --> 00:02:18,481 Speaker 2: Mister Universe titles. However, he was born in England and 37 00:02:18,601 --> 00:02:22,401 Speaker 2: failed to get his citizenship to one suburban police officer, 38 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,761 Speaker 2: Lewer was a clever, calculating master criminal who'd gotten away 39 00:02:26,761 --> 00:02:29,401 Speaker 2: with a string of crimes and was a danger to 40 00:02:29,441 --> 00:02:33,561 Speaker 2: this nation. He compiled the dossier of hearsay and unproven 41 00:02:33,601 --> 00:02:37,241 Speaker 2: allegations that have never been tested in court. But on 42 00:02:37,281 --> 00:02:40,641 Speaker 2: that basis, in twenty twenty, Peter Dutton invoked the character 43 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: test and ordered his deportation. He's been fighting this order 44 00:02:44,561 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: ever since and contacted me to tell his story from 45 00:02:47,281 --> 00:02:51,041 Speaker 2: inside the broad Meadows Immigration Detention Center in Melbourne. 46 00:02:51,721 --> 00:02:53,281 Speaker 5: Welcome to Real Crime, Gary. 47 00:02:53,441 --> 00:02:55,321 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Evamo to be here. 48 00:02:56,041 --> 00:02:58,401 Speaker 5: You're in on the podcast Real Crime. Are you a 49 00:02:58,441 --> 00:02:59,081 Speaker 5: real criminal? 50 00:03:00,281 --> 00:03:05,441 Speaker 6: Purportedly or allegedly particular by one police officer's got this 51 00:03:05,601 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 6: story and there own particular stories for me. The dossier 52 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:16,361 Speaker 6: of terror that this police officer compiled was basically replete 53 00:03:16,401 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 6: with not even allegations but suppositions. And there were sixteen 54 00:03:22,321 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 6: points that he put in there. Out of the sixteen 55 00:03:25,321 --> 00:03:30,601 Speaker 6: points of not even allegations, actually just beliefs, his beliefs. 56 00:03:31,441 --> 00:03:34,401 Speaker 6: Out of those sixteen, I was never spoken to on 57 00:03:34,561 --> 00:03:37,961 Speaker 6: fifteen of those, So one would think how strong are 58 00:03:38,001 --> 00:03:41,761 Speaker 6: the beliefs if you kind of interview me, let alone, charge. 59 00:03:41,521 --> 00:03:45,121 Speaker 1: Me or comfit me. So yeah, it's a very convon story, 60 00:03:45,161 --> 00:03:46,441 Speaker 1: actually it is. 61 00:03:46,521 --> 00:03:48,921 Speaker 2: And you know, I've been knocking around the underworld and 62 00:03:48,961 --> 00:03:51,281 Speaker 2: police and things for about twenty five years in Melbourne, 63 00:03:51,721 --> 00:03:54,481 Speaker 2: and I must confess I've never heard your name before, 64 00:03:55,121 --> 00:03:57,561 Speaker 2: which tells me that you're a very good, low key 65 00:03:57,641 --> 00:04:00,401 Speaker 2: criminal or you haven't got much form. 66 00:04:00,801 --> 00:04:03,961 Speaker 5: What is your form in the criminal sense, my. 67 00:04:04,081 --> 00:04:08,281 Speaker 6: Forming the criminal scene, it's I've been convicted for eleven 68 00:04:08,361 --> 00:04:13,001 Speaker 6: times in sixty years, and the majority of those offenses 69 00:04:13,081 --> 00:04:16,001 Speaker 6: were for possess or restricted substance. 70 00:04:16,761 --> 00:04:17,001 Speaker 1: I e. 71 00:04:17,641 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 6: Steroids for my bodyhood e avctually before the right up 72 00:04:21,401 --> 00:04:25,761 Speaker 6: until the eighth Possession of steroids wasn't an offense. They 73 00:04:25,801 --> 00:04:30,241 Speaker 6: made it so. And because I was so outspoken in 74 00:04:30,281 --> 00:04:33,241 Speaker 6: relation to using them, I was very honest I always 75 00:04:33,281 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 6: have been in relation to that. 76 00:04:35,201 --> 00:04:37,721 Speaker 2: I mean, you couldn't be in that game without taking them, right, 77 00:04:37,921 --> 00:04:39,201 Speaker 2: really in those days. 78 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:44,441 Speaker 6: Never all professional sportsmen take performance enhancing things, but in 79 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,041 Speaker 6: one form or another. So police targue with me and 80 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 6: charge me with possess a restricted substance, and restricted in 81 00:04:52,681 --> 00:04:56,081 Speaker 6: the sense of one needed a prescription to have it. 82 00:04:56,841 --> 00:04:57,361 Speaker 1: That was it. 83 00:04:58,161 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 6: And I do note though, that in a newspaper article 84 00:05:03,481 --> 00:05:06,921 Speaker 6: one of your colleagues that was mentioned that I was 85 00:05:08,081 --> 00:05:13,761 Speaker 6: convicted of selling steroids to other bodybuilders, animal steroids. Even 86 00:05:14,361 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 6: that's correct, and well, there isn't. Actually, this is the 87 00:05:17,641 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 6: way they're laid and packaged. I have never been charged 88 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:27,401 Speaker 6: with selling anything to anybody, let alone. 89 00:05:25,961 --> 00:05:28,201 Speaker 2: I do know them the same story that he talks about. 90 00:05:28,601 --> 00:05:30,641 Speaker 2: And I haven't had the benefit of reading this dossier 91 00:05:31,041 --> 00:05:33,361 Speaker 2: that there's a prior conviction for firearms, which is a 92 00:05:33,401 --> 00:05:34,121 Speaker 2: serious offense. 93 00:05:34,201 --> 00:05:35,281 Speaker 5: What's that all about? 94 00:05:35,841 --> 00:05:37,361 Speaker 1: Well, the firearms offenses? 95 00:05:37,561 --> 00:05:41,321 Speaker 6: Why I was relegated to the position of five oho 96 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,801 Speaker 6: one that character. In nineteen ninety five, I was convicted 97 00:05:46,801 --> 00:05:50,801 Speaker 6: of possess and illegal firearm, And the possession part of it, 98 00:05:50,921 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 6: some people might think that you're walking around. It was 99 00:05:53,201 --> 00:05:56,921 Speaker 6: wrapped up under the house, put away, no ammunition, no nothing, 100 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,241 Speaker 6: And the police did come. They rate again because of steroids, 101 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,961 Speaker 6: and they found the firearm. And twelve months after this raid, 102 00:06:06,201 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 6: I was summons and went to court and I received 103 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,721 Speaker 6: two six months sentences to be served concurrently. 104 00:06:13,201 --> 00:06:15,801 Speaker 1: So I served six months, but. 105 00:06:15,921 --> 00:06:20,001 Speaker 6: The aggregated sentence brought it up to twelve months. So 106 00:06:20,041 --> 00:06:22,641 Speaker 6: therefore you were automatically bad character. 107 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,601 Speaker 2: The magic number? Tell me what sort of gun? And 108 00:06:26,601 --> 00:06:28,441 Speaker 2: why what sort of gun? 109 00:06:28,561 --> 00:06:28,721 Speaker 1: Why? 110 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,681 Speaker 6: Well, I'm just an average boy, I guess, and look 111 00:06:33,041 --> 00:06:35,921 Speaker 6: I don't think I've ever come across a boy who 112 00:06:36,161 --> 00:06:40,041 Speaker 6: wasn't some somewhat fascinated firearms, cowboys and all that sort 113 00:06:40,041 --> 00:06:42,921 Speaker 6: of bit. My son and I used to go target shooting. 114 00:06:42,921 --> 00:06:44,921 Speaker 6: I mean, there's no way on God's green Earth I 115 00:06:44,961 --> 00:06:46,281 Speaker 6: could shoot anything like that. 116 00:06:46,681 --> 00:06:48,161 Speaker 1: So we used to go up the bush and we 117 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,041 Speaker 1: chewed targets. 118 00:06:49,761 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 5: That's it, Okay, what sort of gun was it? 119 00:06:52,921 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: Was it twenty two? 120 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 2: Right, Just a little twenty two basically bounce off a 121 00:06:57,761 --> 00:07:00,201 Speaker 2: thick jumper. Not really a very serious weapon at all, 122 00:07:00,241 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: you'd say, no, not a serious weapon, right, because this 123 00:07:05,201 --> 00:07:08,001 Speaker 2: was the basis of the dossier, or the beginning of 124 00:07:08,001 --> 00:07:08,561 Speaker 2: the dossier. 125 00:07:08,601 --> 00:07:09,481 Speaker 5: But there was a lot more. 126 00:07:09,881 --> 00:07:12,281 Speaker 2: When I look at this story that was written about you, 127 00:07:13,161 --> 00:07:16,161 Speaker 2: Sylvester talks about you as being an intimidator, a drug importer, 128 00:07:16,241 --> 00:07:18,361 Speaker 2: a person behind a threat to nail your dogs to 129 00:07:18,441 --> 00:07:21,801 Speaker 2: the door, and the quote what is beyond dispute? Is 130 00:07:21,801 --> 00:07:23,321 Speaker 2: it by accident or design? If you get on the 131 00:07:23,321 --> 00:07:26,521 Speaker 2: wrong side of it? Was massive bodybuilders frame bad things happen. 132 00:07:27,521 --> 00:07:28,481 Speaker 2: What's he talking about? 133 00:07:29,041 --> 00:07:32,721 Speaker 6: He really made a license to create a fiction there. 134 00:07:33,601 --> 00:07:36,281 Speaker 6: I mean, that's just actually, when I read the dossier, 135 00:07:36,561 --> 00:07:39,481 Speaker 6: I was absolutely horrified. And I actually said to the 136 00:07:39,841 --> 00:07:43,001 Speaker 6: Immigration that I said, if I had read that, if 137 00:07:43,001 --> 00:07:45,481 Speaker 6: I thought this was true of someone, I'd want orton too. 138 00:07:46,201 --> 00:07:50,521 Speaker 6: But there's absolutely no substance to that whatsoever. And like 139 00:07:50,601 --> 00:07:53,761 Speaker 6: I say, these are the things that were in the dossier, 140 00:07:54,321 --> 00:07:59,601 Speaker 6: But how strong is their belief that I'm responsible for 141 00:07:59,641 --> 00:08:00,481 Speaker 6: any of those things? 142 00:08:00,681 --> 00:08:03,401 Speaker 1: I wasn't even spoken to in relation to that. 143 00:08:04,481 --> 00:08:07,721 Speaker 2: Right thoroughly bricked in by all this. You've got a 144 00:08:07,801 --> 00:08:11,041 Speaker 2: dossier which has taken as fact from police officer. You've 145 00:08:11,081 --> 00:08:16,041 Speaker 2: got a journalist who's writing corroborating material. More trouble than 146 00:08:16,041 --> 00:08:18,961 Speaker 2: the early settlers here, really, And the bottom line is 147 00:08:19,041 --> 00:08:21,041 Speaker 2: when it was tested by a court and so forth, 148 00:08:21,241 --> 00:08:23,521 Speaker 2: there seemed to have taken as fact that this came 149 00:08:23,561 --> 00:08:27,921 Speaker 2: from police intelligence holdings, which gives it a very authoritative ring, 150 00:08:28,481 --> 00:08:32,081 Speaker 2: as if you were such a master criminal that they 151 00:08:32,201 --> 00:08:35,281 Speaker 2: had always intelligence on you, but they couldn't pin you 152 00:08:35,321 --> 00:08:38,401 Speaker 2: with anything. What's the reality here, I mean, what was 153 00:08:38,441 --> 00:08:42,001 Speaker 2: the basis of what you call a vendetta against you? 154 00:08:43,401 --> 00:08:46,561 Speaker 6: Well, let me just begin by correcting you that you 155 00:08:46,641 --> 00:08:49,521 Speaker 6: said this was tested by a court. These allegations were 156 00:08:49,561 --> 00:08:52,681 Speaker 6: tested by court. The allegations were never tested by a court. 157 00:08:52,921 --> 00:08:57,361 Speaker 6: As I say, the allegations, ninety percent of these allegations 158 00:08:57,361 --> 00:09:01,161 Speaker 6: were never put to me. I was never questioned by 159 00:09:01,201 --> 00:09:05,281 Speaker 6: anyone in relation to ninety percent of those allegations, let 160 00:09:05,281 --> 00:09:06,841 Speaker 6: alone charged or convicted. 161 00:09:07,321 --> 00:09:08,681 Speaker 1: Nothing, and that ever went to court. 162 00:09:09,641 --> 00:09:13,001 Speaker 2: I should direct myself there when I say tested by 163 00:09:13,001 --> 00:09:15,721 Speaker 2: a court. It was in the Federal Court judgment of 164 00:09:15,761 --> 00:09:18,761 Speaker 2: the Judiciary Review that you sought. Justice Murphy found the 165 00:09:18,761 --> 00:09:22,641 Speaker 2: document to be reliable as it emanated from the quote 166 00:09:23,001 --> 00:09:24,321 Speaker 2: police intelligence unit. 167 00:09:25,001 --> 00:09:29,001 Speaker 6: Yes, what he actually said, because we disputed the document 168 00:09:29,121 --> 00:09:33,841 Speaker 6: as aubrication fiction. What he said in sexual judgment was 169 00:09:34,721 --> 00:09:38,521 Speaker 6: the Minister was entitled to rely upon the document as 170 00:09:38,561 --> 00:09:45,601 Speaker 6: having been properly constructed and in good faith, So regardless 171 00:09:45,601 --> 00:09:49,921 Speaker 6: of what that document contained, as outrageous as it is, 172 00:09:50,041 --> 00:09:54,041 Speaker 6: it was, the Minister is entitled to rely upon its 173 00:09:54,601 --> 00:09:56,641 Speaker 6: credibility or validity. 174 00:09:58,041 --> 00:09:58,361 Speaker 5: Okay. 175 00:09:58,401 --> 00:10:00,801 Speaker 2: And then of course the Minister for Home Affairs, then 176 00:10:00,801 --> 00:10:05,961 Speaker 2: Peter Dutton relies on this document referencing quote Police Intelligent 177 00:10:06,081 --> 00:10:09,641 Speaker 2: Holdings twenty seven times. So it does give us all 178 00:10:09,681 --> 00:10:15,081 Speaker 2: a pretty authoritative ring. But you say this all came 179 00:10:15,481 --> 00:10:19,161 Speaker 2: from some years earlier twenty thirteen when this police officer 180 00:10:19,841 --> 00:10:22,721 Speaker 2: began a vendetta we can call it that against a 181 00:10:22,721 --> 00:10:26,081 Speaker 2: friend of yours, Andrew Hutton, his wife Lisa, and their 182 00:10:26,121 --> 00:10:28,601 Speaker 2: four little girls, all under the age of ten. 183 00:10:29,481 --> 00:10:30,841 Speaker 5: What on earth was going on? 184 00:10:31,801 --> 00:10:36,041 Speaker 6: Okay, A long story, short as look as short as 185 00:10:36,041 --> 00:10:39,281 Speaker 6: it can be. Andrew was running a chemical business. He 186 00:10:39,481 --> 00:10:45,121 Speaker 6: was taking excess leftover chemicals from companies and then reselling them. 187 00:10:45,641 --> 00:10:50,121 Speaker 6: And what sort of chemicals time, all sorts of chemicals whatever. Basically, companies, 188 00:10:50,161 --> 00:10:53,361 Speaker 6: when they have excess chemicals, they pay somewhere to come 189 00:10:53,401 --> 00:10:55,401 Speaker 6: and take them and dispose of them. 190 00:10:56,041 --> 00:10:58,321 Speaker 1: So he thought, well, hang on a second, these things 191 00:10:58,361 --> 00:10:59,441 Speaker 1: are worth money. 192 00:10:59,681 --> 00:11:03,521 Speaker 6: So I'll take them free and then I'll resell them 193 00:11:04,041 --> 00:11:06,761 Speaker 6: instead of the company's paying for someone to take it 194 00:11:06,801 --> 00:11:08,961 Speaker 6: and dispose it. I mean, it was costing them thousands 195 00:11:09,001 --> 00:11:12,681 Speaker 6: of thousands of dollars to pay for disposal of these chemicals. 196 00:11:13,041 --> 00:11:15,881 Speaker 6: So he just lashed onto something a bit like recycling, 197 00:11:16,041 --> 00:11:19,881 Speaker 6: I guess. And at this time, probably a few years 198 00:11:20,041 --> 00:11:26,001 Speaker 6: after the met Andrew was widely advertising the company, bettered 199 00:11:26,001 --> 00:11:30,721 Speaker 6: by Seculda Road drug Squad ticked all the boxes. Anyway, 200 00:11:30,961 --> 00:11:35,401 Speaker 6: As time went on, Andrew became embroiled in a custody 201 00:11:35,441 --> 00:11:40,081 Speaker 6: battle for his children with his then wife Lisa, and 202 00:11:40,161 --> 00:11:45,281 Speaker 6: as time went on they separated. They moved home, and 203 00:11:45,321 --> 00:11:49,441 Speaker 6: then they split up. Lisa took some chemicals and she 204 00:11:49,561 --> 00:11:52,921 Speaker 6: took it back to the house that they ran crime 205 00:11:52,961 --> 00:11:55,281 Speaker 6: stoppers and said, look, there's some chemicals at this place 206 00:11:55,321 --> 00:11:59,681 Speaker 6: he had. So they went there and turned into a 207 00:11:59,681 --> 00:12:03,481 Speaker 6: whole circus, rove off all the area and so forth. Anyway, 208 00:12:03,641 --> 00:12:06,401 Speaker 6: so then the police did the police who they investigated, 209 00:12:06,601 --> 00:12:09,961 Speaker 6: who lived here, where the chemicals come from. 210 00:12:10,361 --> 00:12:11,481 Speaker 1: It came back to Andrew. 211 00:12:12,761 --> 00:12:17,121 Speaker 6: So they charged Andrew with having precursor chemicals, chemicals that 212 00:12:17,241 --> 00:12:20,481 Speaker 6: can be used in the manufacture of aphetamines. 213 00:12:20,961 --> 00:12:22,601 Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say, sorry to stop you there, 214 00:12:22,601 --> 00:12:25,161 Speaker 2: but I mean, my suspicious and skeptical mind gets a 215 00:12:25,161 --> 00:12:27,321 Speaker 2: bit excited when I hear people talking about buying and 216 00:12:27,361 --> 00:12:30,401 Speaker 2: selling excess chemicals. And this is not chlorine for the 217 00:12:30,441 --> 00:12:35,561 Speaker 2: backyard pool. These are precursor chemicals for the production of methamphetamine. 218 00:12:35,561 --> 00:12:36,521 Speaker 5: That's pretty serious to me. 219 00:12:37,161 --> 00:12:41,161 Speaker 6: No, no, no, some of them can be It's like acetone. 220 00:12:41,361 --> 00:12:44,521 Speaker 6: Now everyone uses acetone. Yeah, you know what acetone is? 221 00:12:44,961 --> 00:12:46,721 Speaker 5: I do and to make methamphetamine as. 222 00:12:46,601 --> 00:12:49,481 Speaker 6: Well, well, it can be used in the process. It's 223 00:12:50,321 --> 00:12:51,401 Speaker 6: a basically a solvent. 224 00:12:51,921 --> 00:12:55,321 Speaker 2: I mean, I make no allegations against mister Hutton. I 225 00:12:55,361 --> 00:12:59,081 Speaker 2: don't even know it. But it is suspicious. 226 00:12:59,681 --> 00:13:04,201 Speaker 6: Well, it became suspicious because it suited the police as 227 00:13:04,241 --> 00:13:07,681 Speaker 6: a gender. They liked things to be probably more than 228 00:13:07,681 --> 00:13:11,881 Speaker 6: they actually are, because it's good for their position. As 229 00:13:11,921 --> 00:13:17,281 Speaker 6: things went along, they charged Andrew having these briefs and 230 00:13:17,361 --> 00:13:20,761 Speaker 6: chemicals with the intent to do whatever with them in 231 00:13:20,801 --> 00:13:24,201 Speaker 6: this process. Andrew had one child. She was under the 232 00:13:24,201 --> 00:13:28,121 Speaker 6: age of five years. She was very ill in hospital. 233 00:13:28,161 --> 00:13:33,001 Speaker 6: She was basically dying serious aggressive cancer, and he had 234 00:13:33,041 --> 00:13:36,801 Speaker 6: his other three children removed from his custody and put 235 00:13:36,801 --> 00:13:42,121 Speaker 6: into foster care. This police officer informed his landlord that 236 00:13:42,241 --> 00:13:46,281 Speaker 6: he was manufacturing drugs in the house. He lost his home, 237 00:13:47,041 --> 00:13:51,041 Speaker 6: he lost the business. His wife, Lisa, through all the 238 00:13:51,121 --> 00:13:55,201 Speaker 6: stress that was put on her by the police, committed suicide. 239 00:13:58,001 --> 00:13:58,441 Speaker 1: Charlotte. 240 00:13:58,601 --> 00:14:01,841 Speaker 6: Charlotte, who was in hospital at the time. The police 241 00:14:01,881 --> 00:14:08,321 Speaker 6: officer questioned entered Andrew visiting her company. 242 00:14:09,601 --> 00:14:10,361 Speaker 1: Sorry it's. 243 00:14:13,041 --> 00:14:17,641 Speaker 6: Me, and he prevented him visiting her when she was dying, 244 00:14:18,721 --> 00:14:24,921 Speaker 6: and poor little thing ends up dying by herself because 245 00:14:24,961 --> 00:14:29,281 Speaker 6: of this police officer, and as I say, Lisa committed suicide. 246 00:14:29,721 --> 00:14:33,681 Speaker 1: And this piece of bil this police officer. 247 00:14:33,801 --> 00:14:38,721 Speaker 6: Even prevented Andrew from going to a funeral by advising 248 00:14:38,841 --> 00:14:42,201 Speaker 6: that the funeral home his presence there would bring a 249 00:14:42,201 --> 00:14:45,161 Speaker 6: lot of trouble with it, et cetera, cetera. So he 250 00:14:45,241 --> 00:14:49,481 Speaker 6: was basically barred from his wife's funeral. So at the 251 00:14:49,561 --> 00:14:51,961 Speaker 6: end of the day, he's lost his he's lost his business, 252 00:14:52,001 --> 00:14:55,761 Speaker 6: lost his home, lost his three children, the other one 253 00:14:55,841 --> 00:15:00,761 Speaker 6: dies in hospital by herself, and Lisa commits suicide. Now 254 00:15:01,521 --> 00:15:06,561 Speaker 6: a few months later, this all goes to court. Business Well, 255 00:15:06,721 --> 00:15:09,921 Speaker 6: first of all the children did the court turned around 256 00:15:09,961 --> 00:15:12,921 Speaker 6: and said give him all his children back. There is 257 00:15:13,041 --> 00:15:17,321 Speaker 6: no substance to the police allegations. So he gets his 258 00:15:17,401 --> 00:15:20,961 Speaker 6: children back. Then he goes to court in relation to 259 00:15:21,001 --> 00:15:27,121 Speaker 6: the chemicals and inso much with this, the police were 260 00:15:27,161 --> 00:15:29,801 Speaker 6: telling everyone that Andrew was going to get twenty five 261 00:15:29,881 --> 00:15:32,161 Speaker 6: years in jail for these offenses. 262 00:15:33,041 --> 00:15:33,641 Speaker 5: What do you get? 263 00:15:34,761 --> 00:15:39,121 Speaker 6: He got a twelve month good behavior b four dangerous 264 00:15:39,161 --> 00:15:41,561 Speaker 6: stories of the chemicals. He had some chemicals sitting next 265 00:15:41,601 --> 00:15:44,001 Speaker 6: to otherlands that it shouldn't have been. It was basically 266 00:15:44,081 --> 00:15:47,361 Speaker 6: the improper stories of chemics. He got a twelve month good. 267 00:15:47,201 --> 00:15:49,881 Speaker 5: Behavior So there was no evidence. 268 00:15:50,201 --> 00:15:52,601 Speaker 2: There was no evidence that these chemicals were being used 269 00:15:52,961 --> 00:15:55,481 Speaker 2: to produce less of drugs. 270 00:15:55,281 --> 00:15:57,921 Speaker 1: None whatsoever, not even the sniff of it. 271 00:15:59,801 --> 00:16:02,081 Speaker 2: So you at this point feel a sense of outrage 272 00:16:02,081 --> 00:16:05,281 Speaker 2: about all this, and you decide to pursue this police 273 00:16:05,281 --> 00:16:08,841 Speaker 2: officer through every legal channel available to bring some justice 274 00:16:09,121 --> 00:16:09,681 Speaker 2: to Andrew. 275 00:16:09,721 --> 00:16:11,481 Speaker 5: You've sent me a list of the things that you did. 276 00:16:12,041 --> 00:16:14,481 Speaker 2: You compiled a brief of evidence that the police officers 277 00:16:14,561 --> 00:16:18,241 Speaker 2: had committed gross misconduct. You made official complaints to the 278 00:16:18,241 --> 00:16:21,681 Speaker 2: Police Professional Standards Command twice. I back the Independent. I 279 00:16:21,681 --> 00:16:23,401 Speaker 2: don't even know what it stands for. It's so useless. 280 00:16:23,441 --> 00:16:28,241 Speaker 5: Highback anyway, the Corruption Commission here in Victoria, yes, Victorian Inspectorate, 281 00:16:28,441 --> 00:16:30,961 Speaker 5: the Chief Commissioner of Police, the Attorney General, the Shadow 282 00:16:31,001 --> 00:16:33,521 Speaker 5: Attorney General, the Minister for Police, the Shadow Minister of Police, 283 00:16:33,841 --> 00:16:38,121 Speaker 5: Premier Victoria, and the obbudsman. And what happened from all. 284 00:16:38,001 --> 00:16:40,161 Speaker 1: That Absolutely nothing. 285 00:16:40,521 --> 00:16:44,081 Speaker 6: As you would know, probably better than most police investigating polices. 286 00:16:44,321 --> 00:16:48,641 Speaker 6: It's just a non starter. So nothing of substance actually happened. 287 00:16:49,361 --> 00:16:52,001 Speaker 6: I mean, the guy should have been criminally charged the 288 00:16:52,081 --> 00:16:58,361 Speaker 6: damage he caused from his outrageous fictions is in calculable. However, 289 00:16:58,601 --> 00:17:03,081 Speaker 6: it was obviously caused through the police force and to him. 290 00:17:03,641 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 6: He was demoted out of the Frankston drug squad and 291 00:17:09,001 --> 00:17:13,561 Speaker 6: basically placed on desk duties. So he wasn't happy. He 292 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,001 Speaker 6: wasn't happy at all. Then he started his pursuit of me. 293 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 2: How do you feel about what's happened to you in 294 00:17:20,761 --> 00:17:24,281 Speaker 2: light of your advocacy on behalf of your friend? Because 295 00:17:24,321 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 2: I guess the casual observer might say, well, why is 296 00:17:27,681 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 2: Gary getting involved in this? Look at the stakes of 297 00:17:30,681 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 2: all this, and maybe he had something to do with 298 00:17:33,001 --> 00:17:36,321 Speaker 2: the alleged wrongdoing that the police officer was trying to 299 00:17:36,761 --> 00:17:37,721 Speaker 2: bring against your friend. 300 00:17:37,721 --> 00:17:38,281 Speaker 5: Mister Hutton. 301 00:17:38,801 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 6: No, look, that's it. I was going to say, it's 302 00:17:41,761 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 6: a bolt of mine. I can't stand injustice. It was injustice. 303 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 6: If it happened to a stranger, I'd want to help them, 304 00:17:50,681 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 6: let alone a friend of mine. I mean, what happened. 305 00:17:54,001 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 6: I'm surprised Andrew was able to live through this. I 306 00:17:57,441 --> 00:18:02,481 Speaker 6: honestly had stress. The turmoil of the emotional told this 307 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,521 Speaker 6: had on this man and his children, all these. 308 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,561 Speaker 1: Little girls around under the ten for God. 309 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 6: So they put in foster care, the assistant eyes, their 310 00:18:10,721 --> 00:18:14,641 Speaker 6: mum dies, they lose their home. The damage this guy 311 00:18:14,801 --> 00:18:19,281 Speaker 6: did was incalculable. So I mean I was incensed. And 312 00:18:18,761 --> 00:18:23,481 Speaker 6: Andrew just wasn't in any state to do anything. I mean, 313 00:18:23,521 --> 00:18:26,001 Speaker 6: he was lucky. Like I say, I think it's very 314 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,521 Speaker 6: very lucky to be able to live through that. I 315 00:18:28,561 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 6: think the reality is that Pau wasn't for his little girls. 316 00:18:33,321 --> 00:18:35,441 Speaker 2: You would have thought the good sense and fair play 317 00:18:35,441 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 2: would have dictated that there should have an end to 318 00:18:37,201 --> 00:18:40,681 Speaker 2: all this, that you both inflicted damage on each other, 319 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,321 Speaker 2: all three of you. But it didn't end there because 320 00:18:44,321 --> 00:18:48,761 Speaker 2: the police officer continued. You say, he furnished the ATO 321 00:18:48,921 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 2: with a DOSSI aliging all amount of criminal activity that 322 00:18:52,521 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: you had tens of millions of dollars buried and millions 323 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,801 Speaker 2: of dollars worth of hidden assets. How much did you 324 00:18:59,321 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 2: actually have buried in the back garden? And you know, 325 00:19:02,201 --> 00:19:03,881 Speaker 2: do you know where it is today? If it's still there? 326 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: Issue? 327 00:19:05,481 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 6: I wish I took shovels straight out and started looking 328 00:19:08,761 --> 00:19:14,761 Speaker 6: for it. Again, outrageous allegations and again, I mean it 329 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,681 Speaker 6: was first of all, he went to the ATO, they 330 00:19:17,721 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 6: found nothing of substance actually. 331 00:19:20,001 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: What they did. 332 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 6: Because I hadn't put in tax returns for about five 333 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 6: or six years, I was fined six thousand dollars. Oh no, 334 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,201 Speaker 6: I wasn't fined six thousand dollars. Sorry, I was ordered 335 00:19:30,241 --> 00:19:33,961 Speaker 6: to pay six thousand dollars. Yeah, I did back taxes. 336 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,481 Speaker 5: But no penalties. How the hell did your no penalties? 337 00:19:36,521 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 5: Six years of no tax and I didn't penalize you, 338 00:19:39,281 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 5: no penalty? Rageous? So we did that. 339 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,241 Speaker 2: It's going to fail for your nemesis. Police officer, So 340 00:19:45,281 --> 00:19:48,721 Speaker 2: he goes again. He gives the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission 341 00:19:48,761 --> 00:19:52,321 Speaker 2: the same document as the ATO, and you were examined 342 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: for four hours. You advise you'd be needed for a 343 00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:57,961 Speaker 2: further examination a couple of months. 344 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 6: What happened, Well, just prior to the second examination, I 345 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,961 Speaker 6: was informed by them that I will not be required 346 00:20:06,321 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 6: for further examination as there was basically no substance to 347 00:20:10,281 --> 00:20:11,041 Speaker 6: the allegations. 348 00:20:12,441 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 2: Right, but still he's not finished. Twenty seventeen, twenty nineteen, 349 00:20:16,001 --> 00:20:17,281 Speaker 2: which you call the kill shot. 350 00:20:17,561 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 6: What happened then the kill shot was well, because of 351 00:20:21,321 --> 00:20:25,801 Speaker 6: their only allegations, he wasn't getting so he compiled a 352 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 6: dossier and sent it to the entryp C, which is 353 00:20:29,241 --> 00:20:34,721 Speaker 6: a National Character Consideration Center. Now that existed, No, neither 354 00:20:34,761 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 6: did I. And they came back to him, and I 355 00:20:38,241 --> 00:20:42,761 Speaker 6: have internal documents from their relations to this and basically 356 00:20:42,801 --> 00:20:48,161 Speaker 6: said lewis criminal history. They're only minor offenses, so we 357 00:20:48,201 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 6: need much more than that. So this was in twenty seventeen, 358 00:20:52,441 --> 00:20:56,761 Speaker 6: so two years later he was informed, but there was 359 00:20:56,801 --> 00:20:57,281 Speaker 6: nothing there. 360 00:20:57,321 --> 00:21:00,161 Speaker 1: They do. He furnishes them with. 361 00:21:00,441 --> 00:21:04,681 Speaker 6: The dossier of terror and that's where all these outrageous 362 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,801 Speaker 6: allegations and beliefs coming to play, and they send it 363 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,681 Speaker 6: to mister mister dud with the stroke of a pen, 364 00:21:13,241 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 6: reduces me from a sixty year permanent resident to an 365 00:21:17,281 --> 00:21:18,481 Speaker 6: illegal non citizen. 366 00:21:20,241 --> 00:21:22,761 Speaker 5: Why didn't you get citizenship? I've got to ask people 367 00:21:22,761 --> 00:21:26,361 Speaker 5: this question, because surely that's a way to ensure yourself 368 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,041 Speaker 5: against this outcome. 369 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: And I couldn't count times I've asked that question to me. 370 00:21:33,281 --> 00:21:35,481 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's a nonsense. Now. 371 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 6: I came here at the age of four in nineteen 372 00:21:38,921 --> 00:21:43,441 Speaker 6: sixty and I was a permanent resident, and I thought permanent, 373 00:21:43,441 --> 00:21:45,281 Speaker 6: it's permanent, but. 374 00:21:45,281 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: Clearly it's not. 375 00:21:47,001 --> 00:21:51,281 Speaker 6: And I never ever once thought to take out citizenship. 376 00:21:51,721 --> 00:21:52,961 Speaker 1: I mean, why would I. 377 00:21:52,961 --> 00:21:57,281 Speaker 6: I mean, I represented the country fourteen times in World championships, 378 00:21:57,481 --> 00:22:02,481 Speaker 6: winning goal for the country five times was basically, I guess, 379 00:22:02,481 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 6: a sporting icon back in the eighties to my sport 380 00:22:05,681 --> 00:22:09,041 Speaker 6: in particular, and I was the first Australian to ever 381 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 6: win a World championship or Australia in body building, and 382 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:16,161 Speaker 6: then all of a sudden, I'm not Australian anymore, stroke 383 00:22:16,201 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 6: of a ped Look, honestly, if it was widely known 384 00:22:20,281 --> 00:22:24,121 Speaker 6: that one is in a position such a violent position, 385 00:22:24,681 --> 00:22:28,241 Speaker 6: obviously yes I would, and I guess everyone else that's 386 00:22:28,281 --> 00:22:33,201 Speaker 6: a similar position absolutely would takeouts. But I guess at 387 00:22:33,201 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 6: the time, Look, honestly, it just never entered my head, 388 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:42,401 Speaker 6: and I guess it was like, well, what's the advantage. 389 00:22:42,001 --> 00:22:44,041 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, Well, you know, fair cool. 390 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,921 Speaker 2: And while you're doing all this, the police officer alleges 391 00:22:48,001 --> 00:22:51,841 Speaker 2: to Dutton that you were forging a powerful reputation in 392 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,041 Speaker 2: criminal circles as being a violent individual who has the 393 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:58,041 Speaker 2: proven behavior and financial means to inflict harm on any 394 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 2: person that provides the police information about his criminal activities. 395 00:23:03,481 --> 00:23:04,921 Speaker 5: Pretty heavy, So let's call in you a gangster. 396 00:23:06,441 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 6: Basically absolutely outrageous, But you'll see with that on. My 397 00:23:11,281 --> 00:23:16,201 Speaker 6: take on that reading those allegations or statements is why 398 00:23:16,201 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 6: aren't you listening? 399 00:23:17,681 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: Who is it? 400 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 6: I mean, he said I was the boss of the game, 401 00:23:21,241 --> 00:23:24,001 Speaker 6: and my first question is who's the gang? Who's in 402 00:23:24,001 --> 00:23:27,001 Speaker 6: the gang? Who are you talking about? What's this in 403 00:23:27,001 --> 00:23:27,561 Speaker 6: relation to? 404 00:23:28,041 --> 00:23:29,761 Speaker 2: I feel like I missed your story you would do 405 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: with this gangster figure on the fringes? Who was this 406 00:23:33,281 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 2: threat to national security? I didn't even know about you. 407 00:23:35,201 --> 00:23:36,881 Speaker 2: I feel like I've done my job. 408 00:23:37,681 --> 00:23:41,001 Speaker 6: Well, it's like this police officer said, he said, we 409 00:23:41,041 --> 00:23:43,881 Speaker 6: couldn't atch you because he was just too smart. Really, 410 00:23:44,321 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 6: maybe you couldn't. You didn't catch him because he wasn't 411 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:46,721 Speaker 6: doing it. 412 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also this interesting stuff that's the sort of 413 00:23:49,721 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 2: neighborhood dispute stuff really, i'd call it in the dossier, 414 00:23:53,441 --> 00:23:55,561 Speaker 2: which is a series of alleged crimes in three fifteen 415 00:23:55,561 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, as you launched a wave of terror quote 416 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,281 Speaker 2: against a family building a retirement complex next to his 417 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,481 Speaker 2: former wife's Frankston home that would have affected you view 418 00:24:05,921 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 2: according this to the article that Sylvester wrote John sevest 419 00:24:08,201 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 2: in the Ages. First, the excavator caught fire, causing one 420 00:24:11,201 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars worth of damage, and then a massive 421 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: hole filled with water on the Lure property caused a 422 00:24:16,721 --> 00:24:19,201 Speaker 2: landslip that wrecked concrete work on the development next door. 423 00:24:19,481 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: There were the further fires on the construction site and 424 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,761 Speaker 2: two cars owned by the developers were firebombed. Their windows 425 00:24:24,761 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 2: were smashed, and police led to the owner's daughter was 426 00:24:27,441 --> 00:24:30,721 Speaker 2: followed by Lure. The girlfriend of a family member told 427 00:24:30,721 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 2: police she received a phone call from a man she 428 00:24:32,441 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 2: believed to be Lea who threatened to blow up her house, 429 00:24:36,001 --> 00:24:38,721 Speaker 2: burn her cars, and quote nail her. 430 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,241 Speaker 5: Pet dogs to the front door. What do you say 431 00:24:41,281 --> 00:24:41,721 Speaker 5: to all that? 432 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,721 Speaker 1: Absolutely outrageous. 433 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,681 Speaker 6: And that's part of when I said to you earlier 434 00:24:48,761 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 6: that I was never spoken to in relation to allegations. 435 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,001 Speaker 1: They're part of the allegations. 436 00:24:57,241 --> 00:24:59,321 Speaker 5: Outrageous, yes, but true or. 437 00:24:59,321 --> 00:25:03,161 Speaker 6: Not true except except actually I will correct that the 438 00:25:03,201 --> 00:25:06,801 Speaker 6: water part was correct. Now, at the back of the house, 439 00:25:07,201 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 6: I was going to fence off an area so the 440 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 6: dog could have a run, and to put the fence 441 00:25:12,441 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 6: posts in. Obviously, I got to dig down, so I 442 00:25:15,921 --> 00:25:19,201 Speaker 6: signed myself. We started digging down. There was coming down 443 00:25:19,241 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 6: to clay, so I said, listen, just we'll run. 444 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:23,281 Speaker 1: Some water in there. 445 00:25:23,441 --> 00:25:26,041 Speaker 6: Soft come back to it, I said, I don't forget 446 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,201 Speaker 6: to turn the tap off. So we put the hose 447 00:25:28,241 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 6: in a And what does my son do if you've 448 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,241 Speaker 6: got to turn the tap off. So the water ran over, 449 00:25:34,721 --> 00:25:38,521 Speaker 6: ran over into the nagger's property and washed away some 450 00:25:38,721 --> 00:25:40,401 Speaker 6: dirt retaining wall. 451 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: There was no concrete works there. 452 00:25:42,561 --> 00:25:46,721 Speaker 5: I see, So that partially partially correct. What about the 453 00:25:46,801 --> 00:25:49,041 Speaker 5: nail pet dogs on the front door. That's alarming for 454 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:50,321 Speaker 5: an animal lover. 455 00:25:51,761 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 6: Yes, I mean one only has to look at my 456 00:25:54,481 --> 00:25:57,601 Speaker 6: Facebook page to see what that's about. And I mean 457 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,561 Speaker 6: I couldn't kill an ant let alone. 458 00:26:00,681 --> 00:26:03,721 Speaker 5: I've heard that you befriended the rats in the immigration 459 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:04,801 Speaker 5: detension center. 460 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: By this way. 461 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,681 Speaker 6: Literally, they're one of the things about place. They had 462 00:26:07,721 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 6: some sort of warmth. Put it that way. There ads 463 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,041 Speaker 6: on the visions. 464 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 5: Speaking of warmth. 465 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,041 Speaker 2: There was another allegation in two thousand and nine of 466 00:26:17,041 --> 00:26:20,521 Speaker 2: the gym owner was intimidated into allowing you to work 467 00:26:20,521 --> 00:26:22,801 Speaker 2: out for free in his gym. He canceled the arrangement 468 00:26:22,801 --> 00:26:24,561 Speaker 2: when he found that you were selling steroids in the 469 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 2: car park and sleeping with his girlfriend. That's very cheeky. 470 00:26:28,001 --> 00:26:30,801 Speaker 2: And then the gym was burnt down. Any truth to that? 471 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 6: Oh my god, this guy now at number one, that 472 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 6: I intimidated into allowing me to train there for nothing, 473 00:26:41,241 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 6: what absolute nonsense. Now, most gyms would bend over backwards 474 00:26:46,481 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 6: and pay me to train there. 475 00:26:48,241 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: That alone, me having to pay us. 476 00:26:50,001 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 5: Did you bring a following with you? 477 00:26:52,921 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 6: Yes, I bring credibility to the establishment. And this selling 478 00:26:56,721 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 6: steroids in the car park, Oh my god. Actually, and 479 00:27:00,481 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 6: what he even said to supposedly he said that this 480 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 6: gym owner said that he saw a quarter of a 481 00:27:07,481 --> 00:27:09,241 Speaker 6: million dollars in my car. 482 00:27:10,001 --> 00:27:11,721 Speaker 1: Unbelievable, unbelievable. 483 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 6: Anyway, the way things started to fall apart with this guy. 484 00:27:16,481 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 6: He would talk out of school about me. He was 485 00:27:19,441 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 6: one of these guys and I'm sure you wouldn't who's 486 00:27:22,441 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 6: a want to be try hard? And he was upping 487 00:27:26,921 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 6: his own status by putting others down. And he would 488 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 6: talk about me out of hand. And half a dozen 489 00:27:35,961 --> 00:27:38,761 Speaker 6: times I fronted him on it and said, listen, you've 490 00:27:38,761 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 6: got to stop talking about me, because I'm going to 491 00:27:41,001 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 6: jump over the counter. Anyway, this went on on and 492 00:27:43,961 --> 00:27:45,961 Speaker 6: on and on, and it just got to a point 493 00:27:46,481 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 6: I was I was actually going to give him a 494 00:27:49,321 --> 00:27:53,641 Speaker 6: belt and at the time he had a falling out 495 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,961 Speaker 6: with a number of people and the place did burned out. 496 00:27:57,561 --> 00:27:59,801 Speaker 1: And as I say, I wasn't even spoken to it 497 00:27:59,961 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: in relation to that. 498 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 6: You know, the way police investigate, they would see where 499 00:28:04,441 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 6: my phone was, was, where my car was, where everything 500 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,961 Speaker 6: was on the night in particular happens. And I wasn't 501 00:28:11,961 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 6: even spoken to information. I had so much credibility can 502 00:28:15,921 --> 00:28:16,521 Speaker 6: they be to it? 503 00:28:17,201 --> 00:28:20,801 Speaker 2: Okay, you've knocked out the intimidation and the steroid sales 504 00:28:20,801 --> 00:28:22,801 Speaker 2: and said, but what about sleeping with his girlfriend? 505 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 5: It's not a crime, by. 506 00:28:24,041 --> 00:28:26,641 Speaker 1: The way, No, Well that could have been true. 507 00:28:27,761 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 5: Okay, let's that's actually credibility that you'll accept that one. 508 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 5: That's good. 509 00:28:32,961 --> 00:28:36,561 Speaker 2: The report also alleged that you own two multimillion dollar 510 00:28:36,561 --> 00:28:40,681 Speaker 2: properties obtained through criminal activities and registered to fake companies. 511 00:28:40,761 --> 00:28:41,441 Speaker 5: What do you say to. 512 00:28:41,401 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 6: That, Well, I mean common sense must dictate if that 513 00:28:45,401 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 6: was correct, the tax office would have gone through and 514 00:28:48,201 --> 00:28:51,681 Speaker 6: me like those of Salts and or the Australian Criminal 515 00:28:51,761 --> 00:28:57,761 Speaker 6: Intelligence Commission also absolutely rubbish. And again these are assumptions 516 00:28:58,521 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 6: by this police officer. There were two homes and I 517 00:29:03,241 --> 00:29:06,961 Speaker 6: think renting one from one person and the other ones 518 00:29:07,001 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 6: in the company same and nothing to do with me. 519 00:29:09,601 --> 00:29:12,601 Speaker 6: Nothing to do with me whatsoever. So, I mean it's 520 00:29:12,641 --> 00:29:15,241 Speaker 6: outrageous that he says these were false. If they were 521 00:29:15,321 --> 00:29:20,281 Speaker 6: false or basically a fiction, there would be ramifications to that, 522 00:29:21,081 --> 00:29:21,641 Speaker 6: as you would know. 523 00:29:22,201 --> 00:29:26,161 Speaker 2: Yeah, but suffice to say that you weren't charged. The 524 00:29:26,241 --> 00:29:29,121 Speaker 2: ATO did not go through your like a dose assaults. 525 00:29:29,481 --> 00:29:32,721 Speaker 2: So that is a non starter as well. So we 526 00:29:32,841 --> 00:29:34,681 Speaker 2: come to the end of the scoreboard. We look at 527 00:29:34,681 --> 00:29:37,201 Speaker 2: what they actually got you for was two six month 528 00:29:37,681 --> 00:29:41,001 Speaker 2: offenses in jail, which equal the aggregate twelve months. That's 529 00:29:41,081 --> 00:29:43,001 Speaker 2: enough for the bad character. The rest is all piled 530 00:29:43,041 --> 00:29:46,641 Speaker 2: on top. That's what's put you in this position. Do 531 00:29:46,681 --> 00:29:48,881 Speaker 2: you think you could have done anything differently to have 532 00:29:48,921 --> 00:29:49,681 Speaker 2: avoided this? 533 00:29:49,801 --> 00:29:52,641 Speaker 1: Gary, Yes, taken out of citizenship. 534 00:29:53,601 --> 00:29:56,001 Speaker 5: True. So what's your situation now? 535 00:29:56,721 --> 00:30:01,721 Speaker 6: Well, for the last Bible years, I've been absolutely terrified 536 00:30:01,761 --> 00:30:04,361 Speaker 6: every single day come and drag me off to the airport, 537 00:30:05,721 --> 00:30:09,441 Speaker 6: my position having been canceled personally. 538 00:30:08,961 --> 00:30:09,721 Speaker 1: By the minister. 539 00:30:10,401 --> 00:30:12,521 Speaker 6: As you would know, you're not afforded any sort of 540 00:30:12,601 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 6: natural justice whatsoever. I like most people are able to 541 00:30:17,041 --> 00:30:21,681 Speaker 6: appeal the decision a bad character decision or vis a 542 00:30:21,721 --> 00:30:26,401 Speaker 6: cancelation by going to the Aart Tribunal. And my lawyers 543 00:30:26,441 --> 00:30:29,561 Speaker 6: said to me, you were able to if I was 544 00:30:29,801 --> 00:30:33,841 Speaker 6: before the AART. They basically passed the hat around, send 545 00:30:33,881 --> 00:30:38,001 Speaker 6: me home immediately. But I wasn't important that privilege or 546 00:30:38,001 --> 00:30:42,361 Speaker 6: that right, and all I could do was appealed to 547 00:30:42,401 --> 00:30:47,161 Speaker 6: the Federal Court that the Minister had a jurisdictional error. 548 00:30:47,961 --> 00:30:51,521 Speaker 6: And as you've seen by the first proceeding I had 549 00:30:51,721 --> 00:30:56,241 Speaker 6: in front of Justice Murphy, he basically said, well, tough shit, 550 00:30:56,641 --> 00:31:00,441 Speaker 6: that the document was false, but the Minister was entitled 551 00:31:00,481 --> 00:31:03,841 Speaker 6: to rely on it being created in good faith. 552 00:31:04,721 --> 00:31:07,361 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the problem with the Soule system. It 553 00:31:07,441 --> 00:31:12,121 Speaker 2: is it gives the minister too much discretion in the situation. 554 00:31:12,201 --> 00:31:16,241 Speaker 2: And it's been used against you and you're not doing 555 00:31:16,281 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 2: it that well. And there are you. You've got a 556 00:31:17,961 --> 00:31:20,681 Speaker 2: back injury, you're in a wheelchair. What's what are your 557 00:31:20,681 --> 00:31:21,601 Speaker 2: conditions like there? 558 00:31:22,481 --> 00:31:26,681 Speaker 6: Well, four months after being locked up, I slipped on 559 00:31:26,721 --> 00:31:29,081 Speaker 6: the floor as I was stepping out of the cell 560 00:31:29,401 --> 00:31:32,441 Speaker 6: and they just washed it lots of circuit water. Slipped 561 00:31:32,641 --> 00:31:34,721 Speaker 6: ended up on the floor for forty five it's waiting 562 00:31:34,721 --> 00:31:38,001 Speaker 6: for the ambulance to come, ended up four nights in 563 00:31:38,041 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 6: the office hospital. I now sustained a permanent back injury 564 00:31:42,201 --> 00:31:46,321 Speaker 6: from this, and actually I was in twenty twenty and 565 00:31:46,761 --> 00:31:49,841 Speaker 6: I've been waiting from twenty twenty. I'm on the list 566 00:31:50,201 --> 00:31:55,361 Speaker 6: for a procedure for a consultation neurosurgeon to look at 567 00:31:55,361 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 6: my back. So to say the care in here is 568 00:31:59,521 --> 00:32:03,241 Speaker 6: substandard via an understatement, how. 569 00:32:03,161 --> 00:32:04,761 Speaker 2: Do you keep your morale up in there? I wonder 570 00:32:04,841 --> 00:32:07,881 Speaker 2: big because it's a weird place. It's not really a jail, 571 00:32:08,841 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 2: and you do have access to phones, you're doing the 572 00:32:10,481 --> 00:32:11,881 Speaker 2: TDV from inside the center. 573 00:32:12,921 --> 00:32:15,521 Speaker 5: You don't get a minimum term. 574 00:32:15,721 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 2: You're there until they come and drag you out or 575 00:32:19,481 --> 00:32:21,521 Speaker 2: you win some sort of release. 576 00:32:22,161 --> 00:32:24,681 Speaker 5: And the longer you there doesn't matter. How long can 577 00:32:24,721 --> 00:32:27,601 Speaker 5: you hang out there before you just say enough's enough 578 00:32:28,401 --> 00:32:30,641 Speaker 5: and leave your family behind here in Australia and go 579 00:32:30,681 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 5: back to a country you barely know. 580 00:32:33,721 --> 00:32:34,601 Speaker 1: Yeah, good question. 581 00:32:35,161 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 6: I think that's That's the worst thing about this is 582 00:32:37,361 --> 00:32:43,161 Speaker 6: the you're basically put here indefinitely. And I served six 583 00:32:43,201 --> 00:32:45,121 Speaker 6: months in jail and I've been here five and a 584 00:32:45,161 --> 00:32:49,721 Speaker 6: half years now, and this is equivalent to I think 585 00:32:49,721 --> 00:32:53,681 Speaker 6: it's more than a meeting security jail. The only I 586 00:32:53,721 --> 00:32:56,881 Speaker 6: diess the difference here, which is a fantastic positive. We 587 00:32:56,961 --> 00:33:00,721 Speaker 6: do have our phones. But other than that, this is jail. 588 00:33:02,441 --> 00:33:07,361 Speaker 6: This is jail and keeping up again very very difficult. 589 00:33:08,161 --> 00:33:10,121 Speaker 6: How long can one hold out in these places? 590 00:33:10,201 --> 00:33:10,561 Speaker 1: I don't know. 591 00:33:10,601 --> 00:33:14,121 Speaker 6: I guess it's different for different for everybody. But there's 592 00:33:14,161 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 6: been people here. There's people here that are going on 593 00:33:16,481 --> 00:33:17,401 Speaker 6: eleven now. 594 00:33:18,001 --> 00:33:22,161 Speaker 2: Unbelievable, and people have the center then go back to 595 00:33:22,201 --> 00:33:24,041 Speaker 2: freedom in the country that they're unfamiliar with. 596 00:33:24,841 --> 00:33:29,081 Speaker 6: Absolutely, there's people here they were staying forever rather than 597 00:33:29,121 --> 00:33:31,921 Speaker 6: go to a country that they have no ties to whatsoever. 598 00:33:32,281 --> 00:33:35,041 Speaker 6: I mean, there's a poor guy, he's into his eleventh year. 599 00:33:36,001 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 6: I think he did eighteen months jail for holding up 600 00:33:38,201 --> 00:33:41,401 Speaker 6: the service station with a manana literally and then he 601 00:33:41,481 --> 00:33:46,081 Speaker 6: handed himself in. Anyway, he's got a permanent care his mother, 602 00:33:47,001 --> 00:33:50,441 Speaker 6: and for eighteen months jail, he's done. 603 00:33:50,801 --> 00:33:53,561 Speaker 1: He's onto his elect here and insanity. 604 00:33:54,121 --> 00:33:55,161 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's kind of ironic. 605 00:33:55,201 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 2: You get this five and a half years for nothing 606 00:33:57,441 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 2: in particular other than a dossier of hearsay and allegations. 607 00:34:01,441 --> 00:34:03,081 Speaker 2: It'd have been better off being a better crooked and 608 00:34:03,121 --> 00:34:05,361 Speaker 2: doing these things and stashing some cash away least so 609 00:34:05,401 --> 00:34:08,241 Speaker 2: your family would be looked after, because I mean, what's 610 00:34:08,281 --> 00:34:10,281 Speaker 2: the state of your family now that you've been in there, 611 00:34:11,001 --> 00:34:14,321 Speaker 2: And if the legal fees mount up, that's the only 612 00:34:14,361 --> 00:34:16,081 Speaker 2: hope is to keep fighting on the legal front. 613 00:34:16,121 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 5: I mean, how are they doing? 614 00:34:18,121 --> 00:34:19,841 Speaker 6: Look, that's I think that's one of the things that 615 00:34:19,961 --> 00:34:24,201 Speaker 6: upsets me most is the is the collateral damage from this, 616 00:34:24,321 --> 00:34:28,681 Speaker 6: from this sort of thing. Honestly, it's incalculable the emotional 617 00:34:29,201 --> 00:34:33,521 Speaker 6: toll this takes. The emotional damage because it's a never 618 00:34:33,641 --> 00:34:37,961 Speaker 6: ending thing, and it's very hard for people to understand. 619 00:34:38,201 --> 00:34:40,721 Speaker 1: They say, well, what did he do? Nothing? 620 00:34:41,641 --> 00:34:44,081 Speaker 6: No, he must have done something. They don't lock you 621 00:34:44,161 --> 00:34:47,201 Speaker 6: up for nothing, Yes they do. They lock you up 622 00:34:47,201 --> 00:34:49,921 Speaker 6: for a character test for something that's not even proven. 623 00:34:49,961 --> 00:34:52,881 Speaker 6: It's it's just that it's a very subjective thing at 624 00:34:52,921 --> 00:34:57,121 Speaker 6: the will of a politician that's basically doing what he's 625 00:34:57,161 --> 00:35:01,361 Speaker 6: doing for his own personal political gain and nothing else. 626 00:35:02,001 --> 00:35:04,761 Speaker 1: So we're basically pawns. We're all collateral. 627 00:35:04,361 --> 00:35:08,281 Speaker 6: Damage for these politicians' political aspirations. 628 00:35:09,321 --> 00:35:09,921 Speaker 5: Well, that's right. 629 00:35:10,001 --> 00:35:13,441 Speaker 2: And my other contacting friend, Tom Mackie, former president of 630 00:35:13,481 --> 00:35:15,001 Speaker 2: the Descendant's Motorcycle clubin. 631 00:35:14,721 --> 00:35:17,001 Speaker 5: Adelaide has been deported to New Zealand. 632 00:35:17,041 --> 00:35:19,681 Speaker 2: He was there for a similar time to you, and 633 00:35:19,681 --> 00:35:21,921 Speaker 2: that's how I met you through Tom. He recommended talking 634 00:35:21,921 --> 00:35:24,081 Speaker 2: to you and gave you a glowing character reference by 635 00:35:24,081 --> 00:35:28,041 Speaker 2: the way, which I took seriously. He fought and fought 636 00:35:28,081 --> 00:35:33,081 Speaker 2: and fought, and finally had to accept deportation and has 637 00:35:33,161 --> 00:35:36,561 Speaker 2: left the country. And at no stage was there a 638 00:35:36,641 --> 00:35:39,481 Speaker 2: real test of fairness in all this. And this is 639 00:35:39,481 --> 00:35:42,561 Speaker 2: what bothers me about this. I mean, you may or 640 00:35:42,561 --> 00:35:45,521 Speaker 2: may not be a serious crook. I don't even know. 641 00:35:45,601 --> 00:35:47,801 Speaker 2: And we'll let the listeners judge on this. But the 642 00:35:47,841 --> 00:35:50,561 Speaker 2: point to me is that these allegations, if they're going 643 00:35:50,561 --> 00:35:53,121 Speaker 2: to be used at such a high level, they need 644 00:35:53,161 --> 00:35:57,921 Speaker 2: to be tested. They need to be corroborated, the motivations assessed, 645 00:35:58,281 --> 00:35:59,281 Speaker 2: and they're simply. 646 00:35:58,961 --> 00:36:05,721 Speaker 6: Not absolutely no way shape or are they tested, as 647 00:36:05,761 --> 00:36:09,241 Speaker 6: you would probably know too for one to be have there, 648 00:36:09,921 --> 00:36:13,481 Speaker 6: these are canceled, be locked up here for an indefinite 649 00:36:13,481 --> 00:36:16,881 Speaker 6: amount of time five six, seven, ten years and supported 650 00:36:17,001 --> 00:36:20,521 Speaker 6: to a country that you have no ties with whatsoever, 651 00:36:21,161 --> 00:36:24,081 Speaker 6: you have a family, no friends. There's some people who 652 00:36:24,041 --> 00:36:26,441 Speaker 6: have been sent to countries they don't speak the language. 653 00:36:26,881 --> 00:36:27,641 Speaker 1: You don't have to. 654 00:36:27,561 --> 00:36:31,281 Speaker 6: Even have committed a crime, even if you associate with 655 00:36:31,521 --> 00:36:34,681 Speaker 6: persons of bad character. Will say, like a motorcycle group, 656 00:36:35,281 --> 00:36:38,281 Speaker 6: you only have to associate with someone there and that's. 657 00:36:38,161 --> 00:36:39,161 Speaker 1: Enough to put you in here. 658 00:36:40,041 --> 00:36:43,401 Speaker 6: And again you don't even have to go to jail 659 00:36:44,041 --> 00:36:47,641 Speaker 6: Yet's say twelve month good behavior bond, if someone gets 660 00:36:47,681 --> 00:36:51,241 Speaker 6: twelve months community based order, if someone gets a twelve 661 00:36:51,321 --> 00:36:55,921 Speaker 6: month of course in drug and alcohol rehabilitation, that is 662 00:36:56,081 --> 00:36:58,401 Speaker 6: enough to put you in here, sent to the other 663 00:36:58,481 --> 00:37:01,041 Speaker 6: side of the world, away from your home, away from 664 00:37:01,081 --> 00:37:02,121 Speaker 6: everything done. 665 00:37:02,641 --> 00:37:03,401 Speaker 1: It's insanity. 666 00:37:04,441 --> 00:37:08,761 Speaker 6: The costs associated with the cost of the taxpayer is 667 00:37:08,841 --> 00:37:09,841 Speaker 6: eye watering. 668 00:37:10,921 --> 00:37:12,841 Speaker 5: It really is. And how's the food, by the way. 669 00:37:13,721 --> 00:37:18,761 Speaker 1: It's disgusting. It's disgusting. 670 00:37:19,321 --> 00:37:20,441 Speaker 5: You're a vegetarian, aren't you. 671 00:37:21,521 --> 00:37:28,681 Speaker 6: Well, I'm vegan, so vegetarian in here. So yeah, it's 672 00:37:28,881 --> 00:37:30,321 Speaker 6: our choices here. 673 00:37:31,041 --> 00:37:31,321 Speaker 5: Listen. 674 00:37:31,761 --> 00:37:33,561 Speaker 2: I do wish you well on a personal level, and 675 00:37:33,601 --> 00:37:36,081 Speaker 2: it's not just because I believe that you are innocent 676 00:37:36,161 --> 00:37:36,561 Speaker 2: or guilty. 677 00:37:36,561 --> 00:37:37,241 Speaker 5: I think just think that. 678 00:37:37,401 --> 00:37:40,041 Speaker 2: As I said before, the transparency of the situation is very, 679 00:37:40,121 --> 00:37:42,441 Speaker 2: very lacking, and we've seen a lot of commentary in 680 00:37:42,481 --> 00:37:45,081 Speaker 2: the Australian media about the iniquities of the system in 681 00:37:45,121 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 2: America going on, where so called illegal aliens are being 682 00:37:48,921 --> 00:37:51,001 Speaker 2: ripped out of their homes and deported to countries and 683 00:37:51,081 --> 00:37:53,561 Speaker 2: so forth, And there's the commentary there is about the 684 00:37:53,641 --> 00:37:55,321 Speaker 2: lack of natural justice. But we've got it going on 685 00:37:55,361 --> 00:37:58,761 Speaker 2: in our own country here, yet we've sort of accepted this, 686 00:37:58,601 --> 00:38:00,881 Speaker 2: that this is the standard practice. So there's a fair 687 00:38:00,881 --> 00:38:04,881 Speaker 2: amount of hypocrisy in this situation that your case demonstrates. 688 00:38:04,881 --> 00:38:07,521 Speaker 2: And I do hope that you get to clean your 689 00:38:07,601 --> 00:38:09,641 Speaker 2: name one way or the other. If they can bring 690 00:38:09,641 --> 00:38:11,521 Speaker 2: evidence against you to charge you with something, well, well 691 00:38:11,521 --> 00:38:12,401 Speaker 2: and good in my opinion. 692 00:38:12,761 --> 00:38:13,681 Speaker 5: You know, I don't want. 693 00:38:13,521 --> 00:38:16,401 Speaker 2: Drug manufacturers or gangsters or any other people running around 694 00:38:16,401 --> 00:38:19,401 Speaker 2: our streets. But let's get people for what they've actually done, 695 00:38:19,441 --> 00:38:22,121 Speaker 2: not what people suspect them of. So Gary and John Lewell, 696 00:38:22,201 --> 00:38:24,721 Speaker 2: I wish you well and keep me in touch with 697 00:38:24,761 --> 00:38:27,281 Speaker 2: what goes And you've still got a few appeals of 698 00:38:27,361 --> 00:38:28,441 Speaker 2: options up your sleeve. 699 00:38:28,481 --> 00:38:31,281 Speaker 1: I believe we've got a few things in the works. 700 00:38:31,281 --> 00:38:34,961 Speaker 6: But if I could adam you, I think even to 701 00:38:34,961 --> 00:38:39,161 Speaker 6: Tom mentioned this is the inequities of what's happening in 702 00:38:39,201 --> 00:38:42,881 Speaker 6: Australia with immigration and so forth all the other five 703 00:38:42,921 --> 00:38:47,201 Speaker 6: eyes countries on countries in the USA, Canada, New Zealand, 704 00:38:47,441 --> 00:38:50,761 Speaker 6: the UK if you'd lived there for ten years, you 705 00:38:50,841 --> 00:38:55,161 Speaker 6: can't be sported in Australia up until the nineties, if 706 00:38:55,201 --> 00:38:57,401 Speaker 6: you've lived here for ten years, it could be apported 707 00:38:58,121 --> 00:39:03,401 Speaker 6: the five oh one criteria came in in relation to terrorism, 708 00:39:03,961 --> 00:39:08,401 Speaker 6: really really seriously like that. Then they've expanded in twenty fourteen, 709 00:39:08,521 --> 00:39:12,401 Speaker 6: they changed the legislation, and they changed the legislation right 710 00:39:12,401 --> 00:39:15,001 Speaker 6: at the end when they were to stop the boats 711 00:39:15,041 --> 00:39:15,601 Speaker 6: coming in. 712 00:39:15,921 --> 00:39:17,081 Speaker 1: So the boats stopped coming. 713 00:39:17,721 --> 00:39:20,681 Speaker 6: And so, I mean all of us here have spent 714 00:39:21,961 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 6: time trying to work out what the hell is going 715 00:39:25,081 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 6: on and what is the rationale behind these places. And 716 00:39:29,481 --> 00:39:33,881 Speaker 6: as we all would have thought, immigration detentions for illegal 717 00:39:33,921 --> 00:39:37,521 Speaker 6: people coming illegally by boats, et cetera fair enough. 718 00:39:38,161 --> 00:39:39,801 Speaker 1: So they stopped the votes coming. 719 00:39:40,121 --> 00:39:43,681 Speaker 6: And therefore there's no one coming into these places. But 720 00:39:43,801 --> 00:39:47,281 Speaker 6: then they changed the legislation and they make it retrospective. 721 00:39:47,361 --> 00:39:50,161 Speaker 6: In other words, from that day on in twenty fourteen, 722 00:39:50,601 --> 00:39:54,841 Speaker 6: this legislation was applicable to if you committed a crime 723 00:39:54,921 --> 00:39:58,041 Speaker 6: fifty years ago, you come under the heading of that. 724 00:39:58,801 --> 00:40:02,521 Speaker 1: So it's not that anyone in here. I'll take myself. 725 00:40:03,241 --> 00:40:06,921 Speaker 6: Tom committed these and an offense became a five zero 726 00:40:06,961 --> 00:40:08,881 Speaker 6: one from an defence in. 727 00:40:08,841 --> 00:40:12,041 Speaker 1: Iteen ninety five. Twenty five years later. 728 00:40:11,921 --> 00:40:13,801 Speaker 6: They scoop you up off the street and lock you 729 00:40:13,921 --> 00:40:16,921 Speaker 6: up and saying, well, because you committed this defense back then, 730 00:40:17,201 --> 00:40:19,961 Speaker 6: now we're going to punish you here as well. And 731 00:40:21,241 --> 00:40:23,801 Speaker 6: the way for people to understand this it would be like, 732 00:40:24,521 --> 00:40:27,441 Speaker 6: now we've all committed a defense. Let's say a driving offense, 733 00:40:27,481 --> 00:40:31,601 Speaker 6: speeding whatever going up, don't wear your seatbelt, and we've 734 00:40:31,601 --> 00:40:37,121 Speaker 6: all coppied fine and demerit points loss. So let's say you, Adam, 735 00:40:37,361 --> 00:40:41,561 Speaker 6: committed a driving offense twenty five thirty years ago, and 736 00:40:41,881 --> 00:40:44,481 Speaker 6: you lost your points and you paid fines, yes, as 737 00:40:44,521 --> 00:40:46,681 Speaker 6: we all have. And then you get a knock on 738 00:40:46,721 --> 00:40:49,801 Speaker 6: the door twenty five thirty years later, I say, Adam, 739 00:40:49,841 --> 00:40:52,561 Speaker 6: we've come to take a car. You excuse me, and 740 00:40:52,641 --> 00:40:54,401 Speaker 6: we come to take your car. Car is going to 741 00:40:54,441 --> 00:40:56,601 Speaker 6: be taken to be seized, and it's going to be 742 00:40:56,641 --> 00:40:59,721 Speaker 6: crushed and you go hang on a seton Once they thought, well, 743 00:40:59,721 --> 00:41:02,361 Speaker 6: you give it an efense thirty years ago and you 744 00:41:02,481 --> 00:41:06,281 Speaker 6: paid the fine, you lost your points, but they've changed 745 00:41:06,321 --> 00:41:10,801 Speaker 6: the legislation which makes it retrospective. So anyone that's committed 746 00:41:10,881 --> 00:41:13,361 Speaker 6: PA's thirty years ago, we now come and take their 747 00:41:13,361 --> 00:41:16,241 Speaker 6: cars and we quesh them. 748 00:41:16,521 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, the other getting punished twice is questionable. Gary, 749 00:41:20,481 --> 00:41:22,201 Speaker 2: thanks for your time today, mate. I appreciate you telling 750 00:41:22,241 --> 00:41:25,801 Speaker 2: the story and I do wish you well and you 751 00:41:25,881 --> 00:41:29,201 Speaker 2: received some form of justice, whether it's positive or negative, 752 00:41:29,281 --> 00:41:32,121 Speaker 2: but some transparent process I think is due. 753 00:41:32,281 --> 00:41:33,201 Speaker 5: Thanks for your time today. 754 00:41:33,841 --> 00:41:34,801 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Eric. 755 00:41:38,161 --> 00:41:41,921 Speaker 2: That's Gary Lewe on his present situation. Multiple mister Australia 756 00:41:41,961 --> 00:41:46,921 Speaker 2: winner who's apparently not Ozzy enough and he's facing deportation 757 00:41:47,081 --> 00:41:50,081 Speaker 2: back to his native England place that he hasn't lived 758 00:41:50,081 --> 00:41:51,241 Speaker 2: for many, many years. 759 00:41:51,801 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 5: Does this pass the smell test? You've heard the allegations 760 00:41:54,841 --> 00:41:57,201 Speaker 5: against Goar, and I stress their allegations, they're not charges, 761 00:41:57,241 --> 00:41:59,321 Speaker 5: are not proven. What do you think? 762 00:42:00,161 --> 00:42:02,721 Speaker 2: I certainly think these things, as I've said before in 763 00:42:02,761 --> 00:42:05,961 Speaker 2: this interview, should be tested in a court, and I 764 00:42:05,961 --> 00:42:08,961 Speaker 2: think that's just fair. And we did expect that the 765 00:42:09,001 --> 00:42:13,001 Speaker 2: new Labor government, once Dutton's mob were kicked out, would 766 00:42:13,241 --> 00:42:16,361 Speaker 2: address this, but they haven't. Maybe it's just politically convenient 767 00:42:16,481 --> 00:42:19,801 Speaker 2: to retain this. And there are some people in our 768 00:42:19,881 --> 00:42:22,641 Speaker 2: society who should be deported, and maybe you can make 769 00:42:22,681 --> 00:42:26,641 Speaker 2: an argument that they're too clever and should be deported 770 00:42:26,641 --> 00:42:28,801 Speaker 2: on this character test. But I'd like to see a 771 00:42:28,841 --> 00:42:31,401 Speaker 2: lot more natural justice apply to the situation. If you've 772 00:42:31,441 --> 00:42:32,841 Speaker 2: got a story you want to share with me, please 773 00:42:32,881 --> 00:42:35,601 Speaker 2: get in touch. You could call crime stoppers if it's 774 00:42:35,801 --> 00:42:39,761 Speaker 2: conventional information one one hundred, triple three, triple zero, or 775 00:42:39,801 --> 00:42:42,161 Speaker 2: maybe call me first or send me an email Adam Shanner, 776 00:42:42,201 --> 00:42:45,841 Speaker 2: writer at gmail dot com. This has been real crum 777 00:42:45,881 --> 00:42:47,441 Speaker 2: At Adam shann thank you for listening.