1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being a part of the show. 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: I talked a lot about my work here. I talk 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: about the various stages of my work here, the creation stages, 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: putting show ideas and formats together, and I like to 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: kind of give you an opportunity to see what it's 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: like to be in this industry where you make your 7 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: own work. And a couple of weeks back, Jeeves and 8 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: I did a test run of a game show the 9 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: other night and it was really cool. It was really 10 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: really fun. It was a pre ticket and part of 11 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: the idea was that people would come along. It was 12 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: essentially a live workshop. But when you're making a TV 13 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: show or starting to develop a in studio format, you 14 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: kind of need an audience and you need contestants and 15 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: stuff to see how things work. And so I was 16 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: really clear with it, everyone going like, this isn't a 17 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: scripted show. You are a part of a workshop, and 18 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: we are going to find out if things work or 19 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: do not work, and some things only get discovered when 20 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: we're in front of an audience. So they were very 21 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: aware that it was a work in progress, and we 22 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,959 Speaker 1: took our time to make it happen, and we did 23 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: two versions of it. The audience were fantastic, and I 24 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: talked to the audience a lot that night because I 25 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: was finding out which bits worked and which bit doesn't work. 26 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: There was a lot of students in the room, which 27 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. We did it at Improv, thea to 28 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: Sydney where they teach improv the kind of stuff that 29 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: we do at ANTI and End, so there was a 30 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: few students there. There was also a couple of professionals 31 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: from other industries, which was really really cool, and I 32 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: would ask at the end of you know, when we 33 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: did a break or whatever, go which bits worked, which 34 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: bits didn't work, And people were actually really good, like 35 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: and just a fan of TV or a fan of 36 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: game shows had a huge amount to say and really 37 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: valuable inside. You don't need to be a TV professional. 38 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: You can just kind of tell them normally there's this bit, 39 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: and there's that bit's not missing, and Jeeve's like, yeah, 40 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: you're right. And so some of the notes were really 41 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: really useful, and some of the things that were giving 42 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: notes on some of the things I had talking about 43 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: perhaps weren't very useful, but I didn't want to shut 44 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: anybody down. So as I was explaining look, I hear you, 45 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: but this is why we won't do that. I started 46 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: referring off handily to look, it's one of the rules 47 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: of show business. You da da da da da, and 48 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: it goes ah right right. By the end of the night, 49 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: I think I've got to about twelve rules of show business, 50 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: and so I started writing him down. I won't tell 51 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: you what number I got to, but it's in triple figures. 52 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,119 Speaker 1: And I figured, I'm going to put one of these 53 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: out and tell me if you think it's a good 54 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: idea or not, see if you can get any value. 55 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: Not necessarily if you're in the entertainment industry or whatever. 56 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: But I think some of the ways of working on 57 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: a film set or a TV set, or in radio 58 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: or in the entertainment industry, some of the ways of 59 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: working and some of the slogans that get thrown around 60 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: on set or in a negotiation can actually really handy. 61 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: Can it be really really handy lessons for other aspects 62 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: of life, for other industries. Some of the interests of 63 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: creating something as a valuable resource to anyone don't necessarily 64 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: if you want to get into this gig or not. 65 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: I felt it was high time that I would put 66 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: a list together and I'll get to the first rule 67 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: of show business after the break. That's real number four, 68 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: but I'll. 69 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: Get there. 70 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: Today. Thanks bigger part of the show. This is better 71 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 1: than yesterday, making it better every episode since twenty thirteen. 72 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: My names Osha Ginsburg. I'm a TV host, I'm a podcaster. 73 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: I'm a best selling author. I am a wet and 74 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: dry silicon sealer applicant that makes sense. I'm a one way, 75 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: one way Bilge pump valve purchaser. And I'm glad you're 76 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: here if you want to watch, if you want to 77 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: listen to any show that we've ever made, all the 78 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: episodes aret oh she Ginsberg dot com. That's also how 79 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: you can get in touch with me. And if I 80 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: miss anything on this list, which I probably will, that's 81 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: all so hey, you can let me know. As I mentioned, 82 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: I've I've got to triple figures writing all these down, 83 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: so hopefully they'll be useful to you. I probably should 84 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: have consolidated them a bit, but look here we gorobably. 85 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: I should have also called them, you know, Ginsburg's rules 86 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: of whatever Coglan's law I think was. Brian Brown famously 87 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: whipped that one out. She's probably named stuff to yourself, 88 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: but I couldn't figure out how to do it with 89 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: it without feeling comfortable about it. So here we go 90 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: the rules of show business. According to Washiginsburg, here is 91 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: a list of the rules of show business. The first 92 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: rule of show business. There is show in show business. 93 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: That's it. This show in show business, So look great, 94 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: put on our show. People are paying you money. They're 95 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: either paying you with a ticket or they're paying you 96 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: with their attention. How does that work? You might think 97 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: watching TV or watching content online is free. It isn't. 98 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: The ads that you're watching is the business part of it, 99 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a second. That's your attention. 100 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: But if you pay a ticket, that is the exchange. 101 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: You are paying a fee for the ticket when you 102 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: sit down in your seat or you get into the gig, 103 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: when you watch the stage. You want to get what 104 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: you're paying for. People have paid money to see a 105 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: show out there to what you just play a song 106 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: and just kind of walk through it. They're there to 107 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: have an emotional reaction that they otherwise wouldn't get. Where 108 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: they not actively attending to this show that you are 109 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: putting on. What is a show. That is the product 110 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: that you are selling there. It is the emotional response 111 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: in your audience. That is the product you're selling. And 112 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: that could look like a film, could look like a 113 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: TV show, could like reality, could look like a drama, 114 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: a podcast, a song, a piece of music, a poem, whatever, 115 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: you are training in the emotional response of your audience, 116 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: whether that be joy or sadness or ambivalence, which is 117 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: a difficult one to get to. That is what people 118 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: are paying for. They're being paid to expose themselves to 119 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: a feeling that otherwise weren't going to get. Comedy is 120 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: a great example of that. To go along and laugh 121 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: for an hour, like that's a price worth paying. To 122 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: be challenged with your ideas is a price worth paying. 123 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: There needs to be a show around it, though, and 124 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: that applies to everything. Make sure the production quality is great, 125 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: make sure there's lighting. If you're going to afford the pyro, 126 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: get the pyro. Everything's better with fireworks. I should put 127 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: that down the list. Everything's better with pyro. I'll get 128 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: that down there. But yeah, there's show in show business, 129 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: so put some effort in. When I go and see 130 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: a band and they're staring at their sneakers and they 131 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: look like they're just wearing the clothes they got up 132 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: in that morning. Like, come on, man, let's put some 133 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: effort in, make some eye contact with the people in 134 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: the room. If I see, like Huey Lewis and The News, 135 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: they toured with the Tower of Powell horns in the eighties. 136 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: Two Power there's an amazing funk band from the seventies 137 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: and they toured with the horn sections, about six of them. 138 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: There's a great line from Huey Lewis and The News. 139 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: I like my bands in business suits. I watched them 140 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: on TV. When you see a band all wearing the 141 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: same stuff, when you see a horn section with choreography 142 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: they've taken the time to learn, that shows you as 143 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: an audience member, Oh they've thought about this. I feel 144 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: special now there's effort that's going on to make me 145 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: feel like I'm doing the right thing right now with 146 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: my time and my money. And that includes paying the 147 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: babysitter and the dinner and the taxi of the uber 148 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: or the train ride or whatever it is you took 149 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: to get to the gig. So put some effort in 150 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: and that goes as an audience member. If people aren't 151 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: putting effort in man, forget about it. I heard a 152 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: story about a band called Fishbone, which were one of 153 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: the great great, great kind of punk scar bands about 154 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: thirty years ago, twenty five thirty years ago, like ten 155 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: heavy duty black dudes. I think fish ended up playing 156 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: drums with Justin Timberlake. I think I even saw him 157 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: play when Timberlake too it out here. But Fishbone were 158 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: like on stage, it was like eight or ten dudes 159 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: on stage, and the whole gig from start to finish 160 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: was just amped energy on stage, just going nuts, like 161 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: guys running across the stage throwing a like a So 162 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: saxophone is coming three different or four different sizes. So 163 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: there's the kenny g the soprano, Then there's the alto, 164 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: which is the bleeding gums Murphy, and then there's the tenor, 165 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: which is the one that you see in the Tina 166 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: Turn videos. And there's the baritone that's the really big 167 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: one that goes down below your knees. And so the 168 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: lead singer, who was also the saxophonist, would like throw 169 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: the tenor saxophone at the roady run across the stage, 170 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: and then the baritone sacks would get thrown from the 171 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: other side and catch the baritone sack, put it over 172 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: his neck and go bah bah bah bah bah dah ba. 173 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: He could have just a road, he could have come 174 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: on stage and passed it to him, but Bam, just energy, 175 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: gave it, gave it, gave it on stage. When you 176 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: see a band that's really given it everything, when you 177 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: see a performer that's given it everything, you feel entertained. 178 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: Rusty asked the question, are you not entertained? Oh? No, 179 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: I'm entertained. And that's what you should expect as an 180 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: audience member. This show and show buses is if you're 181 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: not seeing a show, take your money elsewhere because that's 182 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: what you're paying for. So go go find something that 183 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: gives you some show. And if you're a performer, put 184 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: some fit in, brush your hair or not. But let 185 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: the person that you're in the room think I have 186 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: put some effort in thinking about your experience today. And 187 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: that can go from burning incense or the lighting rig 188 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: or making sure the sound is good. You've got to 189 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: put the show on, which brings me to rule number two. 190 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: And I think about this quite a lot, and I've 191 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: had to face it face to face a number of times. 192 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: The second rule of show business, it's show business, not 193 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: show friends. I was having a conversation with someone who 194 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: works at a TV network, one of the technical team. 195 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,479 Speaker 1: They're the ones who were in charge of buying seven 196 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollar cameras for a TV studio and 197 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: all the playback stuff that can make a sports game 198 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: run like. They will write an invoice for millions like that, right, 199 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: And this person we were talking about my recent urn 200 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: in employment, and this person was going, yeah, but it's 201 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: such a great show man, you just make it, people 202 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: will watch. I had to break this. I said, mate, 203 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: it's show business, not show friends. The business case has 204 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: to be there for the show to get made, so 205 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: the rubber meets the road for broadcast. At least, when 206 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: the ratings get to a point that the advertising revenue 207 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: that you can write against those ratings no longer covers 208 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: the cost of the production, you've got to make a call. 209 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: You've got to make a coll which is why a 210 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: network can buy like a daily show, right, John Stewart 211 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: Daily You can buy that for like fifty thousand dollars 212 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: or something like that for a half hour. If you 213 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: write one hundred thousand dollars of advertising against that in 214 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: the three ad breaks you've got, you made fifty grand. 215 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: It's not a bad business model right when it works. 216 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: So when you don't get a gig, or if the 217 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: gig doesn't go ahead, it's often not about your performance. 218 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: It's not often about how good the show is. It 219 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: can be a lot to do with the production budget, 220 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: and it can be a lot to do with where 221 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: the market is going. And that's the same for creative choices, 222 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: like if somebody passes on your screenplay or passes on 223 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: the product that you are trying to create, it might 224 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: be a great product, it might be a great story. 225 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: But if that's not what the direction the market is going, 226 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: if there's no appetite for that sort of thing, it's 227 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: a business decision. Say you know someone really really well 228 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: a new picture show at them, and let's say it's 229 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: a cooking show where it's about chefs who are masterful 230 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: at what they do. And you start with thirty of 231 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: them and one leaves every time, and you go, it's amazing. 232 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: And they look at you and go, I love you, You're awesome. 233 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: And this market already has one of those. They're not 234 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: saying no to you because they want to break that 235 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: your heart or be a dick. It's like, it's show business, 236 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: it's not true friends. Yeah they're your friend, but they're 237 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: not going to say yes because it's not a good 238 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: business decision to put a show like that on air 239 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: when master Chef already exists. It was similarly when I 240 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: lived in America. I would often get yeah, Australia's Ryan Seacrest, 241 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: but my biggest problem was they already had a Ryan Seacrest. 242 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: They didn't need another one, which is kind of kind 243 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: of fun. I always love to put that one that 244 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: it's show business, not show friends, and I guess that 245 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: would go for any industry. I would always put that 246 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: in front of whatever thing I was shitty about because 247 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: it would help me process whatever decision got made about, 248 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: like particularly like a creative decision or like a programming decision. 249 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: If a radio station I was working at went like 250 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: way more pop or whatever than I liked personally for 251 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: the music, it's like, it's a business choice. They're going 252 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: into a different part of the market because that's where 253 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: more advertising revenue is. That's all it is. It's a 254 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: business decision. 255 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: That's it. 256 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: The third rule of show business, and I really love 257 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: this one. Never miss a moment to make a moment. 258 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: In the kind of television that I've been making my 259 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: whole career, it's all about the information that is being revealed. 260 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: Every film you ever see, every TV show you ever see, 261 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: there's no waste of dialogue. Everything is there for a reason, 262 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: and every piece of dialogue builds, builds, builds until you 263 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: know to make the last ten or fifteen seconds of 264 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: the show makes sense or the film makes sense. Similarly, 265 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: when it comes to unscripted television, you are adding and 266 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: adding and adding to the stake, So those last five 267 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: or ten seconds the whole way through the program, you 268 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: may as well make those things pat when you're on 269 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: the way. For example, I heard this great story about 270 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,599 Speaker 1: the late great Graham Kennedy. He's now passed away, but 271 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: it was an Australian broadcasting legend and he did a 272 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: late night show in the nineties and one of the 273 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 1: crew I was working with. This is early channel of 274 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: the days. There's one laid down the list about listening 275 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: to crew, but one of the crew was telling me 276 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: that they worked on this night and they were doing 277 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: a gag where they were coming from the makeup room 278 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 1: into the control room, and he was looking down the 279 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: barrel of the camera as he walked across a corridor 280 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: kind of like a Scooby Doo kind of you know, 281 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: hallway gag. So it called to him to leave one 282 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: room and walk into the other. And as he walked 283 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: out of the makeup room, there was a very it 284 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: was quite a heavily sprung door and it went bang, 285 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: and it really just echoed up and down the hallway. 286 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: It didn't touch the door of the control room. He 287 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: turned around and he already had a gag to say 288 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: as he made the walk across the hallway, otherwise it 289 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: would have included the shot. Yet he also had figured 290 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: out if I let that go, and he timed it. 291 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: Apparently he did it like seven or ten times, figuring 292 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,599 Speaker 1: out exactly where to let it go and how to 293 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: let it go, where his feet had to be so 294 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: that it went bang to pay off as a punchline 295 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: in the middle of the already awesome joke that was there. 296 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: And sure enough, then when they went live, he's looking 297 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: down the barrel because he's rehearsed it and rehearsed it 298 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: and rehearsed it, and he lets go of the other handle, 299 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: and he says, well, of course, none of these servisly 300 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: thing he's ever happened here bang, And so the original 301 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: punchline to the gag was now a tag off the 302 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: Big Bang noise. So he was able to make something 303 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: that was already great incredible, he was able to make 304 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: a moment out of it. Similarly, with a show like 305 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: The Bachelor, for example, if I was delivering a card 306 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: on that show, the format called for a date card 307 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: to be delivered because the Bachelor or the bachelorette would 308 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: be inviting people with a handwritten note, and I always 309 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: hirdede it somewhere on my body because like walking in 310 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: with it in my hand, you're going to miss the 311 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: reactions of the people on set to the fact that 312 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: I've got this thing, because sometimes I wouldn't show up 313 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: with one, so it was always a surprise. So never 314 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: miss a moment to make a moment, I would hide 315 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: it here or hide it there, or try to hide 316 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: it in different places every time and find a way 317 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: to build towards that. So there's this, oh, you get 318 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: this kind of little spike of reaction in the middle 319 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: of what would otherwise be kind of a sometimes longer 320 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: moment where there wasn't anything else going on except me 321 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: just giving expedition to drive the thing forward, because it's 322 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: all about it's all about the teas and reveal, which 323 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: does bring me to the next rule of show businesses 324 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: rule number four. And I'll tell you after the break. 325 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: See what I did there? 326 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: All right? 327 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: So that's what we do. Thanks for listening. I wrote 328 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: an enormously long list about the rules of show business 329 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: and it got to triple figures. Were at number four, 330 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: so let's see how we go. Rule number three was 331 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: never miss a moment to make a moment. Rule number 332 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: four of show business. All entertainment, no matter what, all 333 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: entertainment is about tension and release. All life is about 334 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: tension and release when you think about it, so all 335 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: entertainment should be about tension and release as well. What 336 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: am I talking about? Say, for example, dinners at six 337 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: and at five you had a ham and cheese toasty 338 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: and then you sit down and you're on a date 339 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: or whatever. Are you hungry? No, you need that tension. 340 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: You need the man. I haven't eaten anything since one, 341 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: so now here I am enjoying this meal with a person. 342 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to know, and now I'm feeling 343 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: this flood of being full, Oh delightful. How satisfying is 344 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: your sleep at night? Or how easy can you get 345 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: to sleep at say ten pm if you had a 346 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: nap between five and seven. It's not very easy at all. 347 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: The release of falling asleep, like falling in the bed 348 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: and feeling that cradling of the mattress on your body. 349 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's what life's about the morning. I'm awake, amazing, 350 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: Here I go. Well, I'm awake on my life. Here 351 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: I go. Everything is about tension and release. So as 352 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: you go through whatever it is that you're doing, whether 353 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: it be writing a screenplay or writing your book orpse 354 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: singing your song. That's why key changes happen in songs. 355 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: That's why choruses happen in songs. In the eighties, if 356 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: you had a big chorus, you had to wait two verses. 357 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: They had to do first verst second verse, then the chorus. 358 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: They always made you wait. Now they open with the 359 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: hook bang, but you used to have to wait for 360 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: the chorus. It's all about tension and release. You want 361 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: the big, the big moment. Think of the drum fill 362 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: in the Phil Collins song in the Air Tonight. It's 363 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: four minutes of tension for this one drum fill that. 364 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: It works because you hit the pyro with it, kabam. 365 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: Everything's about tension and release. So whether you're in post 366 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: production editing something, or you're writing something from scratch, or 367 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: you're improvising something. I've been doing a lot of improv 368 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,239 Speaker 1: the last couple of years. Building that tension. Building that 369 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: tension is fantastic. Draw that string out as long as 370 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: you like. There's a version of comedy where they never 371 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: do the release. It's through Steve martinish, but it's also 372 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: pretty great because the release comes from the crowd needing 373 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: to get rid of this tension that they can't bear. 374 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: And you see it sometimes when comedians see these long monologues, 375 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: they just keep going and going and going and then 376 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:19,719 Speaker 1: going and going out. I think Steve martin was one 377 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: of the first guys to really kind of lean right 378 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: into that where there is no punchline. That's the joke. 379 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: There is no punchline, and the audience's release that laugh 380 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: is because they've just recognized the preposterousness of it. And 381 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: that's what it's about. If last time you saw a band. 382 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: Did they come on stage while the house lights are 383 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: all on? No, they shut the lights off. Here comes something. Now. 384 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: The only question is how long until I see them 385 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: on stage? Sometimes I play a video, sometimes I play 386 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: a song. Sometimes you'll have to wait a long time 387 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: and then something you won't expect shows up, and then 388 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: not even then, the lead singer is not even there. 389 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: It's usually a lyft through the bottom of the stage 390 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: with them, you know how it works. They're not missing 391 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: a moment to make a moment. But it's all about 392 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: the tension and all about the release. That's why strip 393 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: teas is not just like a naked lady standing there 394 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: strip teasers. Here's somebody with clothes on. There is going 395 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: to be less clothes by the time this is over. 396 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: How long will that take? How much of the person 397 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: will I see beneath those clothes? I guess we're going 398 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: to find out. And it's all about that tension and 399 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: all about the release. I don't know why I feel 400 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: now worried about mentioning that, but it's an art form, 401 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: all right. Think about the last twenty seconds of any 402 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: show you've watched on a streaming service. Is it just 403 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: a boring someone just having a cup of tea. No, 404 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: it is setting up an enormous question. Are they going 405 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: to get out of this perilous situation they're in? Are 406 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: they going to make the flight? Are they going to 407 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: get divorced? D D D DA closing credits tension, How 408 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: are you going to get the release? Next episode in 409 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: fifteen fourteen thirty? Yes? Skip, skip, skip, let's go. I 410 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: can do one more? Can you do one more? Yes, 411 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: it's eleven o'clock. I don't care. Bang, I've got to 412 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: see tension and release. That's the thing that gets people 413 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: over an ad break. That's the thing that gets people 414 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: to turn onto the next episode. That's the thing that 415 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: keeps people's attention when they're sitting there in the cinema 416 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: for two hours. You gotta cycle it up and cycle 417 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: it down. You can't have it at go all the time. 418 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: You watch a YouTube video and it's like two hours 419 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: of extreme motocross highlights, Like after fifteen minutes, you're like, 420 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: you can't watch anymore because you just can't. It's done, 421 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: you can't do it, or like the four hundred best 422 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: tackles in rugby union. Just after a while you're like, 423 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: I can't do this, man. You've got to have the 424 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: low points, otherwise you just get burned out. So as 425 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: long as you've got enough a decent balance of tension 426 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: and release, and you're working it all the way up 427 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: to those key moments where you take an ad break, 428 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: where you have the end of whatever it is, you're big, finale, 429 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: your curtain, you're on care whatever, You'll be fine. Don't 430 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: burn them out, but don't let them get too bored. 431 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: You got to play it real real well. That was 432 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: four I don't know how long that went for. There's 433 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: ninety something more to go. Let me know what you 434 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: think Washaginsburg dot com. There's a contact form there. There's 435 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: also every episode that we've ever made. There's over nine 436 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: hundred of them. I stopped writing when I got to 437 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: one hundred, but I'm sure I missed heaps. So I'll 438 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: happily add to the list as I go. Thank you 439 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: so much for being here. I hope you found it valuable. 440 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: Let me know what you think and I'll see you 441 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: in the next show. 442 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: This episode was brought to you by Andy Maher on 443 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 2: audio post production, becksyed on video post production Toehider on music. 444 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 2: My producer is Bree Steel, and my executive function assistant 445 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 2: is Monica Chapman, for every episode ever. To get on 446 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: the mailing list or to get in touch through the 447 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 2: contact forum, head to Ascroginsburg dot com. Thanks for listening.