Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven Am. It's
Speaker 1: something Pauline Hanson has been eyeing for years, and on
Speaker 1: the weekend she finally got it a seat in the
Speaker 1: Lower House. Her candidate for Farah, David Farley, did even
Speaker 1: better than expected. He was elected on fifty seven percent
Speaker 1: of the vote. It changes things, not just for Pauline
Speaker 1: Hanson and One Nation, but for the country. Today. Contributing
Speaker 1: editor for The New Daily, Amy Ramikus on the power
Speaker 1: of populism right now and what One Nation wants next.
Speaker 1: It's Monday May eleven.
Speaker 2: Will like a mason with a chisel and a hammer
Speaker 2: and we recarving the letters into the Australian democracy.
Speaker 3: One Nation has reached the end of its.
Speaker 1: Beginning, so Amy, One Nation's victory in Farah was historic.
Speaker 1: It's the first time One Nation has won a federal
Speaker 1: Lower House seat since Pauline Hanson herself was elected back
Speaker 1: in the nineties. She is, of course synonymous with the party,
Speaker 1: so tell me about how she's taking credit for this.
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson is having a victory lap at the moment.
Speaker 1: I think it's maybe the happiest that I've ever seen
Speaker 1: her in thirty years of watching her on the national stage.
Speaker 4: Because even when she was elected it was as an independent.
Speaker 4: Barnaby Joyce jumped ship from the Nationals. But this is
Speaker 4: people putting one next to a one Nation candidate at
Speaker 4: the voting booth.
Speaker 2: This is no only wind for it's a win for
Speaker 2: the rest of Australia. I'm seeing a sea of these
Speaker 2: proud Australians faces here in front of me, hundreds of
Speaker 2: you that manions are watching you on TVs now, and
Speaker 2: I believe it's giving them hope.
Speaker 4: While the Liberals and the Nationals had preference David Farley,
Speaker 4: in the end he didn't even really need those preferences
Speaker 4: because he was so far ahead on first preferences that
Speaker 4: you know, it was overwhelmingly he was the choice of
Speaker 4: the electorate.
Speaker 3: When I was walking out of here earlier and I.
Speaker 2: Looked up and I saw the sky called it that
Speaker 2: we won the seat.
Speaker 3: I actually got a tier of my own. So yeah,
Speaker 3: Pauline Hanson is very very happy. And she started.
Speaker 4: Talking about you know, one nation's dominance, and to which
Speaker 4: an extent that is absolutely true. What we're seeing as
Speaker 4: a reordering of the right when it comes to mainstream
Speaker 4: politics in Australia, One Nation's rise has corresponded with the
Speaker 4: coalition's decline. It's all happened quite rapidly after the last
Speaker 4: federal election.
Speaker 2: And who may be watching this coming after those other seats.
Speaker 3: Forgotten anymore.
Speaker 4: So what Pauline Hanson now is doing is talking about
Speaker 4: where one Nation is heading next, and that's national seats,
Speaker 4: but it's also outer suburban seats. And Pauline Hansen has
Speaker 4: said that Western Sydney is on her list, including in
Speaker 4: the Liberal held seat of Lindsay, which Melissa Macintosh, who
Speaker 4: considers herself one of the future leaders of the Liberal
Speaker 4: Party currently holds. And the Liberal Party is quite worried
Speaker 4: about One Nation's impact on seats like Lindsay and what
Speaker 4: that's going to mean over the next couple of years.
Speaker 1: And it was the most regional parts of the seat
Speaker 1: of Farah that voted the most emphatically for One Nation.
Speaker 3: So how do you think.
Speaker 1: That those voters and people who are in these regional
Speaker 1: seats suburban seats in general are thinking about the country
Speaker 1: that they want to live in. And how much anger
Speaker 1: do you think there is?
Speaker 4: I think there is a lot of anger, but there
Speaker 4: always has been, particularly in Regional Australia. Regional Australia feels
Speaker 4: are very abandoned by mainstream politics.
Speaker 3: That's not new. We need to change.
Speaker 5: All the others are liars.
Speaker 3: They don't back up on their promises. We've had enough
Speaker 3: and it's time to bring in some new blood.
Speaker 6: I think therefore, the people I feel our local areas
Speaker 6: being neglected for a fairly long time.
Speaker 4: And in a lot of cases their right to feel abandoned.
Speaker 4: I mean Barnaby Joyce, when he was National's leader, used
Speaker 4: to make a point of saying that the Nationals electorates
Speaker 4: were the poorest in the country. He did not change
Speaker 4: that while he was National's leader, and while he had
Speaker 4: a lot of influence over the Nationals. The Coalition who
Speaker 4: have been in government for most of the time over
Speaker 4: the last thirty years, have not changed that in terms
Speaker 4: of the National electorates. They have not been able to
Speaker 4: create new industry, new opportunity, or address the inequality between
Speaker 4: the regions and the more urban seats in Australia.
Speaker 6: Everybody else has had a bit of a gout trying
Speaker 6: to get this country into order. And I love Pauline
Speaker 6: Hanson's straightforward approach and doesn't hold back and says exactly
Speaker 6: what the normal everyday Australian is thinking that the country
Speaker 6: needs a good turnover.
Speaker 4: And Rob Harris from the Nine Newspapers went to Griffith,
Speaker 4: which is one of the more multicultural seats within Farah
Speaker 4: and he did a profile ahead of the by election
Speaker 4: where the general view what that he was quoting from
Speaker 4: voters was f the lot of use, which is I
Speaker 4: think really indicative of people just saying to the major parties,
Speaker 4: we had done with what you're offering. The regions and
Speaker 4: the outer suburban seats is always where one nation has
Speaker 4: had its biggest success. But the problem now for the
Speaker 4: major parties is that people a little bit more in
Speaker 4: from the regions are starting to listen to one nation.
Speaker 4: They're really showing a lot of discontent with the status
Speaker 4: quo and Anthony Albanezi is starting to weave in a
Speaker 4: lot more people are telling us that they no longer
Speaker 4: want to see things done as they always have been
Speaker 4: and we have to respond to that change.
Speaker 3: Quite clearly.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of people under financial pressure who feel
Speaker 5: like the system isn't working for them and that's a
Speaker 5: message for all political parties in the system.
Speaker 4: He has a little bit more room to respond to
Speaker 4: that change than the Liberal Party do, who are under
Speaker 4: a lot of threat from one nation and the Nationals
Speaker 4: who may very well find themselves wiped out at the
Speaker 4: next election.
Speaker 3: But Labor would.
Speaker 4: Be very foolish to ignore these signs, particularly if they
Speaker 4: don't start to give people a little bit more hope
Speaker 4: that there is going to be economic reform that addresses
Speaker 4: the inequality and the iniquity in Australia's economy.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting any if you look at what's happening
Speaker 1: in the UK. Nigel Farage's Reform Party also had a
Speaker 1: significant win late last week and there's now speculation about
Speaker 1: him being the next UK Prime Minister.
Speaker 3: So how similar is what is happening here.
Speaker 1: Do you think that we're going to end up looking
Speaker 1: back on this moment as the beginning of the far
Speaker 1: rights political assent in Australia.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really interesting because we can also go back
Speaker 4: to Trump and what happened in the United States. You know,
Speaker 4: like Pauline Hansen was being Trump before Trump was Trump,
Speaker 4: you know, at least in Australia, and Nigel Farage is
Speaker 4: probably the closest Paul Enhansen character in the United Kingdom,
Speaker 4: having played a major role in Brexit. And what links
Speaker 4: the three movements is that economic discontent. It is blaming
Speaker 4: people who are not necessarily to migrants for government failures
Speaker 4: in infrastructure and policy over the last three decades.
Speaker 2: And we want people that want the Australians. I don't
Speaker 2: love the immigration by no means, but I want people
Speaker 2: to come here to this country.
Speaker 3: I don't want sharia law on our doors.
Speaker 4: We're seeing economic instability in all three countries, which has
Speaker 4: been worsened by a global inflation crisis that some analysts
Speaker 4: say is going to be bigger than the GFC and
Speaker 4: also potentially bigger and longer than what we saw in
Speaker 4: the early stages of COVID. And that is going to
Speaker 4: force more people into that real politics of grievance mindset
Speaker 4: because they are not seeing the same benefits.
Speaker 3: As previous generations.
Speaker 4: And also no real hope. But the other thing is
Speaker 4: that in the UK, the center left government labor of
Speaker 4: the UK has not responded in ways that their platform
Speaker 4: would suggest that they would respond. They've gone for more
Speaker 4: austerity style policies when it comes to economics, rather than
Speaker 4: leaning into some of those old school labor values of
Speaker 4: giving people money and you know, trying to artificially inflate
Speaker 4: the economy to ensure that people can get through it.
Speaker 4: We've also seen that with the Democrats, who did not
Speaker 4: address the economic inequality and in fact, you know, upheld
Speaker 4: a lot of corporate.
Speaker 3: America in their policies.
Speaker 4: And in Australia we're sort of at that tipping point
Speaker 4: with this next budget.
Speaker 3: Is Labor going to start addressing some of those issues
Speaker 3: that have been.
Speaker 4: Embedded for the last twenty years or so and follow
Speaker 4: through with some of what Labor's platform says that its
Speaker 4: values are or is it going to maintain the status quo?
Speaker 4: And a lot of voters they're going for a disruptor,
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, Nigel Farrage, Pauling Hanson potentially in Australia to
Speaker 4: break up the status quo and hopefully shock the major
Speaker 4: institutions into doing something different. And I think that's going
Speaker 4: to be the story of this period of time.
Speaker 1: Coming up. Could the Libs, Matts and One Nation ever
Speaker 1: form a new proposition? Can we talk a little more
Speaker 1: amy about the effect on the Liberal Party. I mean,
Speaker 1: they were already extremely worried about One Nation. That concern
Speaker 1: costs them a leader. It's behind recent policy pivots. So
Speaker 1: has that concern turned into blind panic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not sure if it's blind panic from the
Speaker 4: parliamentary wing, but it's getting to be blind panic in
Speaker 4: a lot of the apparatus that supports it, I think,
Speaker 4: and I think we're going to be I think Angus
Speaker 4: Taylor would be very lucky to be leading the Liberal
Speaker 4: Party and the Coalition at the next election, and if
Speaker 4: he is, it will be because they haven't yet come
Speaker 4: up with another answer as to who might be able
Speaker 4: to fend off one nation.
Speaker 3: Angus Taylor has.
Speaker 4: Come out in an interview with the Australian Financial Review
Speaker 4: where he said that the answer is to go back
Speaker 4: to some of the Howard principles, being culturally conservative as
Speaker 4: well and economically rational. But the problem with that is
Speaker 4: that the Howard principles worked because Australia was in a
Speaker 4: once in a generation mining boom, which meant that there
Speaker 4: were rivers of gold flowing into Australia's treasury, and no
Speaker 4: government since has had that same impact in terms of
Speaker 4: having a sudden influx in resources, rent and in tax
Speaker 4: receipts flowing into the economy. What Angus Taylor has is
Speaker 4: the legitimacy of one nation, helped along by a Liberal
Speaker 4: party that is legitimizing their message. Angus Taylor's most recent
Speaker 4: speeches on migration, where he advocates for a return to
Speaker 4: a discriminatory migration policy, is very much in line with
Speaker 4: what One Nation has been offering.
Speaker 5: Not everyone wanting to migrate to Australia has a noble intent.
Speaker 5: Not everyone wanting to migrate to Australia will be a
Speaker 5: net benefit to Australia.
Speaker 3: Indeed some will be a net train.
Speaker 4: And then they're preferencing one nation as well, which is
Speaker 4: what one former Liberal MP told me was maybe the
Speaker 4: stupidest suicide note for a modern political party. And so
Speaker 4: they do need to be worried because the seats that
Speaker 4: are going to fall to one nation, or the seats
Speaker 4: that are currently most in danger of falling to one.
Speaker 3: Nation, are coalition seats.
Speaker 4: Marinoah was in trouble even before One Nation's most recent rise, Capricornia,
Speaker 4: Herbert Lindsay, Latrobe, these are all seats that are at
Speaker 4: risk of falling to one nation.
Speaker 3: We've seen research too.
Speaker 4: There's been studies that have been done that have looked
Speaker 4: at you know what's happened to political parties that have
Speaker 4: gone further to the right to try to appease the right,
Speaker 4: And basically what's happened is they've just legitimized the far
Speaker 4: right and people go to the originator rather.
Speaker 3: Than the imitator. So it is a reordering of the right.
Speaker 4: It does not look like the modern Liberal Party is
Speaker 4: going to make it through this. It does not look
Speaker 4: like the Coalition will make it through this. That doesn't
Speaker 4: mean that center right politics won't exist. It just means
Speaker 4: that we're probably going to see something new emerge. And
Speaker 4: Barnaby Joyce was openly saying that recently where he was
Speaker 4: saying this might be it, they might be done.
Speaker 7: Obviously the Liberal Party really do have to do some
Speaker 7: soul searching after the weekend that was catastrophic. That is
Speaker 7: almost that's almost a signal that things might be over.
Speaker 4: And that's because he's looked at the electoral landscape as
Speaker 4: somebody who was a member of the National Apparatust and
Speaker 4: is now a member of one Nation and he's seeing
Speaker 4: which way those votes flow. Not just say that Labor
Speaker 4: won't be in trouble, but at the moment, the most
Speaker 4: immediate danger to a major political party is to the coalition,
Speaker 4: and they do not seem to have the answers of
Speaker 4: how they're going to address that.
Speaker 1: And I know that senior Liberal politicians are distancing themselves
Speaker 1: from this now. But there has been speculation about whether
Speaker 1: the Liberal Party would form a new coalition, one that
Speaker 1: includes one Nation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the thropalition has been in play, I think for
Speaker 4: a while, but that only makes sense if there's new
Speaker 4: seats to be one because if it's just one nation
Speaker 4: taking coalition seats, then it's just a one nation takeover
Speaker 4: of the coalition. One of the reasons why the Liberal
Speaker 4: Party lost the inner city seats to the Teel Independence
Speaker 4: was because it was becoming increasingly difficult for small l
Speaker 4: liberals to uphold and apologize for the policies that the
Speaker 4: Liberal Party was creating to try and address the one
Speaker 4: nation threat.
Speaker 3: So until they can come up with a way to
Speaker 3: win inner city seats that are.
Speaker 4: Not as open to the politics of grievance in the
Speaker 4: same way that we're seeing with one nation voters, until
Speaker 4: they can come up with a way to convince them
Speaker 4: to vote for one nation and the coalition, we're not
Speaker 4: going to see any sort of successful thropalition which would
Speaker 4: lead to them taking government. Well any thank you so
Speaker 4: much for your time, anytime.
Speaker 1: Seven am. We'll be back tomorrow with an episode on
Speaker 1: the case against Coals and Woollies, as a judge weighs
Speaker 1: the evidence. Will they be found to have conned customers?
Speaker 1: And what are the implications for shoppers everywhere?
Speaker 5: It is a huge one, especially because of who we're
Speaker 5: dealing with here. I mean, we're not just this is
Speaker 5: in the corner store. This is everyone's call to store.
Speaker 5: Coles and Woolies dominate the supermarket industry. But the good
Speaker 5: thing is that it will have broader implications for all businesses.
Speaker 3: No one else.
Speaker 5: Will be able to do this. If the a troop
Speaker 5: will see.
Speaker 1: Wins, that'll be in your feed tomorrow. I'm Ruby Jones.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.