WEBVTT - Bonus ep: Why One Nation’s win changes the game 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:09.840 I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven Am. It's 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.280 something Pauline Hanson has been eyeing for years, and on 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.960 the weekend she finally got it a seat in the 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.840 Lower House. Her candidate for Farah, David Farley, did even 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.520 better than expected. He was elected on fifty seven percent 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:27.000 of the vote. It changes things, not just for Pauline 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:31.639 Hanson and One Nation, but for the country. Today. Contributing 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.720 editor for The New Daily, Amy Ramikus on the power 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.040 of populism right now and what One Nation wants next. 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:45.880 It's Monday May eleven. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.080 Will like a mason with a chisel and a hammer 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:04.480 and we recarving the letters into the Australian democracy. 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:09.840 One Nation has reached the end of its. 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:17.319 Beginning, so Amy, One Nation's victory in Farah was historic. 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.000 It's the first time One Nation has won a federal 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.640 Lower House seat since Pauline Hanson herself was elected back 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.600 in the nineties. She is, of course synonymous with the party, 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.640 so tell me about how she's taking credit for this. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.639 Pauline Hanson is having a victory lap at the moment. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.319 I think it's maybe the happiest that I've ever seen 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.759 her in thirty years of watching her on the national stage. 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.280 Because even when she was elected it was as an independent. 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.679 Barnaby Joyce jumped ship from the Nationals. But this is 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.920 people putting one next to a one Nation candidate at 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:51.760 the voting booth. 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.840 This is no only wind for it's a win for 0:01:55.880 --> 0:02:01.720 the rest of Australia. I'm seeing a sea of these 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.160 proud Australians faces here in front of me, hundreds of 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.600 you that manions are watching you on TVs now, and 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.080 I believe it's giving them hope. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.040 While the Liberals and the Nationals had preference David Farley, 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.560 in the end he didn't even really need those preferences 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:22.400 because he was so far ahead on first preferences that 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.120 you know, it was overwhelmingly he was the choice of 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:26.880 the electorate. 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.040 When I was walking out of here earlier and I. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.280 Looked up and I saw the sky called it that 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.280 we won the seat. 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:39.239 I actually got a tier of my own. So yeah, 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.120 Pauline Hanson is very very happy. And she started. 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.799 Talking about you know, one nation's dominance, and to which 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.320 an extent that is absolutely true. What we're seeing as 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.200 a reordering of the right when it comes to mainstream 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:58.079 politics in Australia, One Nation's rise has corresponded with the 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:03.120 coalition's decline. It's all happened quite rapidly after the last 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:04.200 federal election. 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:09.919 And who may be watching this coming after those other seats. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.040 Forgotten anymore. 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.600 So what Pauline Hanson now is doing is talking about 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.800 where one Nation is heading next, and that's national seats, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.080 but it's also outer suburban seats. And Pauline Hansen has 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.680 said that Western Sydney is on her list, including in 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.920 the Liberal held seat of Lindsay, which Melissa Macintosh, who 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.480 considers herself one of the future leaders of the Liberal 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:46.160 Party currently holds. And the Liberal Party is quite worried 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.800 about One Nation's impact on seats like Lindsay and what 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.000 that's going to mean over the next couple of years. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.040 And it was the most regional parts of the seat 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.200 of Farah that voted the most emphatically for One Nation. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.360 So how do you think. 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.840 That those voters and people who are in these regional 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.800 seats suburban seats in general are thinking about the country 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.720 that they want to live in. And how much anger 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:10.320 do you think there is? 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:12.200 I think there is a lot of anger, but there 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:16.360 always has been, particularly in Regional Australia. Regional Australia feels 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.320 are very abandoned by mainstream politics. 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.480 That's not new. We need to change. 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.200 All the others are liars. 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.840 They don't back up on their promises. We've had enough 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:27.680 and it's time to bring in some new blood. 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:32.720 I think therefore, the people I feel our local areas 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.240 being neglected for a fairly long time. 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.240 And in a lot of cases their right to feel abandoned. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.480 I mean Barnaby Joyce, when he was National's leader, used 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.560 to make a point of saying that the Nationals electorates 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.920 were the poorest in the country. He did not change 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.640 that while he was National's leader, and while he had 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.440 a lot of influence over the Nationals. The Coalition who 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.120 have been in government for most of the time over 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.560 the last thirty years, have not changed that in terms 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.640 of the National electorates. They have not been able to 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:09.960 create new industry, new opportunity, or address the inequality between 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.920 the regions and the more urban seats in Australia. 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:14.799 Everybody else has had a bit of a gout trying 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.160 to get this country into order. And I love Pauline 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.520 Hanson's straightforward approach and doesn't hold back and says exactly 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:27.159 what the normal everyday Australian is thinking that the country 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:28.200 needs a good turnover. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.000 And Rob Harris from the Nine Newspapers went to Griffith, 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:36.920 which is one of the more multicultural seats within Farah 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:39.719 and he did a profile ahead of the by election 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.440 where the general view what that he was quoting from 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.880 voters was f the lot of use, which is I 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:51.760 think really indicative of people just saying to the major parties, 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.279 we had done with what you're offering. The regions and 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.320 the outer suburban seats is always where one nation has 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:02.000 had its biggest success. But the problem now for the 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.120 major parties is that people a little bit more in 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.920 from the regions are starting to listen to one nation. 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.320 They're really showing a lot of discontent with the status 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.599 quo and Anthony Albanezi is starting to weave in a 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.560 lot more people are telling us that they no longer 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.039 want to see things done as they always have been 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.520 and we have to respond to that change. 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:24.479 Quite clearly. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:29.919 There's a lot of people under financial pressure who feel 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.520 like the system isn't working for them and that's a 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.960 message for all political parties in the system. 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.960 He has a little bit more room to respond to 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.559 that change than the Liberal Party do, who are under 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:46.080 a lot of threat from one nation and the Nationals 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:50.279 who may very well find themselves wiped out at the 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:50.960 next election. 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.000 But Labor would. 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:57.520 Be very foolish to ignore these signs, particularly if they 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.279 don't start to give people a little bit more hope 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.880 that there is going to be economic reform that addresses 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.160 the inequality and the iniquity in Australia's economy. 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.480 And it's interesting any if you look at what's happening 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.920 in the UK. Nigel Farage's Reform Party also had a 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:19.040 significant win late last week and there's now speculation about 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:20.880 him being the next UK Prime Minister. 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.960 So how similar is what is happening here. 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.160 Do you think that we're going to end up looking 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.200 back on this moment as the beginning of the far 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.160 rights political assent in Australia. 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.600 Yeah, it's really interesting because we can also go back 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.520 to Trump and what happened in the United States. You know, 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:40.160 like Pauline Hansen was being Trump before Trump was Trump, 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.600 you know, at least in Australia, and Nigel Farage is 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:48.320 probably the closest Paul Enhansen character in the United Kingdom, 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:52.600 having played a major role in Brexit. And what links 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:58.040 the three movements is that economic discontent. It is blaming 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:03.280 people who are not necessarily to migrants for government failures 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.640 in infrastructure and policy over the last three decades. 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.640 And we want people that want the Australians. I don't 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.280 love the immigration by no means, but I want people 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:14.680 to come here to this country. 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.720 I don't want sharia law on our doors. 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.560 We're seeing economic instability in all three countries, which has 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.880 been worsened by a global inflation crisis that some analysts 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.400 say is going to be bigger than the GFC and 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.320 also potentially bigger and longer than what we saw in 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.320 the early stages of COVID. And that is going to 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:41.640 force more people into that real politics of grievance mindset 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.240 because they are not seeing the same benefits. 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.440 As previous generations. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:51.360 And also no real hope. But the other thing is 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.880 that in the UK, the center left government labor of 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:59.080 the UK has not responded in ways that their platform 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.240 would suggest that they would respond. They've gone for more 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.960 austerity style policies when it comes to economics, rather than 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.200 leaning into some of those old school labor values of 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.320 giving people money and you know, trying to artificially inflate 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.600 the economy to ensure that people can get through it. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.760 We've also seen that with the Democrats, who did not 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.320 address the economic inequality and in fact, you know, upheld 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:26.559 a lot of corporate. 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.199 America in their policies. 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:31.960 And in Australia we're sort of at that tipping point 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:33.000 with this next budget. 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.520 Is Labor going to start addressing some of those issues 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:37.280 that have been. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.720 Embedded for the last twenty years or so and follow 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.120 through with some of what Labor's platform says that its 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.680 values are or is it going to maintain the status quo? 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.920 And a lot of voters they're going for a disruptor, 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.800 Donald Trump, Nigel Farrage, Pauling Hanson potentially in Australia to 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.760 break up the status quo and hopefully shock the major 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:06.720 institutions into doing something different. And I think that's going 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.319 to be the story of this period of time. 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.040 Coming up. Could the Libs, Matts and One Nation ever 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:28.319 form a new proposition? Can we talk a little more 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:30.839 amy about the effect on the Liberal Party. I mean, 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:35.240 they were already extremely worried about One Nation. That concern 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.040 costs them a leader. It's behind recent policy pivots. So 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.880 has that concern turned into blind panic. 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.160 Yeah, I'm not sure if it's blind panic from the 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:51.240 parliamentary wing, but it's getting to be blind panic in 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.760 a lot of the apparatus that supports it, I think, 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.640 and I think we're going to be I think Angus 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.439 Taylor would be very lucky to be leading the Liberal 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.559 Party and the Coalition at the next election, and if 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.160 he is, it will be because they haven't yet come 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.240 up with another answer as to who might be able 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:12.640 to fend off one nation. 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:14.280 Angus Taylor has. 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.480 Come out in an interview with the Australian Financial Review 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.000 where he said that the answer is to go back 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.839 to some of the Howard principles, being culturally conservative as 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.600 well and economically rational. But the problem with that is 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.520 that the Howard principles worked because Australia was in a 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.440 once in a generation mining boom, which meant that there 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:37.160 were rivers of gold flowing into Australia's treasury, and no 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.000 government since has had that same impact in terms of 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:45.480 having a sudden influx in resources, rent and in tax 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:49.480 receipts flowing into the economy. What Angus Taylor has is 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:54.240 the legitimacy of one nation, helped along by a Liberal 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:59.280 party that is legitimizing their message. Angus Taylor's most recent 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.680 speeches on migration, where he advocates for a return to 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:07.360 a discriminatory migration policy, is very much in line with 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.079 what One Nation has been offering. 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:12.320 Not everyone wanting to migrate to Australia has a noble intent. 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.640 Not everyone wanting to migrate to Australia will be a 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:17.000 net benefit to Australia. 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:18.680 Indeed some will be a net train. 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:22.240 And then they're preferencing one nation as well, which is 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.840 what one former Liberal MP told me was maybe the 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:30.160 stupidest suicide note for a modern political party. And so 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.000 they do need to be worried because the seats that 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.640 are going to fall to one nation, or the seats 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:39.240 that are currently most in danger of falling to one. 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.240 Nation, are coalition seats. 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:47.920 Marinoah was in trouble even before One Nation's most recent rise, Capricornia, 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:53.400 Herbert Lindsay, Latrobe, these are all seats that are at 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:55.319 risk of falling to one nation. 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:57.320 We've seen research too. 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.840 There's been studies that have been done that have looked 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:03.440 at you know what's happened to political parties that have 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.760 gone further to the right to try to appease the right, 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.640 And basically what's happened is they've just legitimized the far 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.360 right and people go to the originator rather. 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.200 Than the imitator. So it is a reordering of the right. 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.520 It does not look like the modern Liberal Party is 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.440 going to make it through this. It does not look 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.559 like the Coalition will make it through this. That doesn't 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.600 mean that center right politics won't exist. It just means 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.040 that we're probably going to see something new emerge. And 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.280 Barnaby Joyce was openly saying that recently where he was 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.520 saying this might be it, they might be done. 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.560 Obviously the Liberal Party really do have to do some 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.920 soul searching after the weekend that was catastrophic. That is 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:49.040 almost that's almost a signal that things might be over. 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.120 And that's because he's looked at the electoral landscape as 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.280 somebody who was a member of the National Apparatust and 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.760 is now a member of one Nation and he's seeing 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.600 which way those votes flow. Not just say that Labor 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:02.800 won't be in trouble, but at the moment, the most 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:07.280 immediate danger to a major political party is to the coalition, 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.040 and they do not seem to have the answers of 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:11.360 how they're going to address that. 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:16.520 And I know that senior Liberal politicians are distancing themselves 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.560 from this now. But there has been speculation about whether 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.440 the Liberal Party would form a new coalition, one that 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:23.600 includes one Nation. 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.240 Yeah, the thropalition has been in play, I think for 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.720 a while, but that only makes sense if there's new 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.640 seats to be one because if it's just one nation 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.920 taking coalition seats, then it's just a one nation takeover 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.160 of the coalition. One of the reasons why the Liberal 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.240 Party lost the inner city seats to the Teel Independence 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.560 was because it was becoming increasingly difficult for small l 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:53.880 liberals to uphold and apologize for the policies that the 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.440 Liberal Party was creating to try and address the one 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:58.400 nation threat. 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:00.960 So until they can come up with a way to 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.000 win inner city seats that are. 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.520 Not as open to the politics of grievance in the 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.440 same way that we're seeing with one nation voters, until 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:12.360 they can come up with a way to convince them 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:17.120 to vote for one nation and the coalition, we're not 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.080 going to see any sort of successful thropalition which would 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:25.160 lead to them taking government. Well any thank you so 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.400 much for your time, anytime. 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.720 Seven am. We'll be back tomorrow with an episode on 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.960 the case against Coals and Woollies, as a judge weighs 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.640 the evidence. Will they be found to have conned customers? 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.640 And what are the implications for shoppers everywhere? 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.280 It is a huge one, especially because of who we're 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.800 dealing with here. I mean, we're not just this is 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.600 in the corner store. This is everyone's call to store. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:05.920 Coles and Woolies dominate the supermarket industry. But the good 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.400 thing is that it will have broader implications for all businesses. 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:10.520 No one else. 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.360 Will be able to do this. If the a troop 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:13.040 will see. 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.880 Wins, that'll be in your feed tomorrow. I'm Ruby Jones. 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:17.880 Thanks for listening.