WEBVTT - Best of Head Game: Coping With Loss 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.400 We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.840 on which this podcast was produced, the Gaigle people of 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:10.400 the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.800 Hi and here, I'm taking a short break and we'll 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.080 be back with more Headgame stories on the twenty second 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.639 of January. In the meantime, I wanted to take a 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:26.760 look back at some of our incredible guests. In this episode, 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.760 you'll hear from three women who have had to endure 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:35.600 unimaginable heartbreak. They've each lost a child and have had 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.199 to find a way through. I was blown away with 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.159 their insights and approaches to life, and I'm honored to 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.600 share them with you today. Firstly, you're here from doctor 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:52.280 Lucy Hone. Lucy is an expert in resilience and grief 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.280 and had to navigate her own loss when her young 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:59.400 daughter Abby was killed in a car accident. She spoke 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.480 to me about that horrific day. 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:07.400 It was an unsuspecting Saturday and we were all going 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:12.080 three families to buy can newly opened Mountain Bike Trail 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.399 and at the last minute, Abby, who was twelve years 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:20.000 old at the time, the phone rang and she said 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.640 can I go in Ella's car? So we said yeah, sure, 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.360 you know, they were tied at the hip, and we 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:29.120 thought nothing of it and dropped her off at the 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:33.080 network courts. So she went off with Ella, and we 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.200 were having dinner later on that night, and Ella's family 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:40.240 hadn't turned up, and we, as you do, just assumed 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:45.480 they were stuck in traffic or something had happened. But 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:51.360 we then got a phone call from the policeman saying 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.560 he was on his way to see us and there 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:59.280 been an accident and as they had driven down through 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.720 the back country tree lanes to come and join us, 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.600 and someone had driven through a stop sign at one 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:11.200 hundred kilometers an hour and crashed into their car and 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.160 killed Ella's mum, Sally, who was a really great friend 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:20.240 of mine, and Ella and Abby and so you know, 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:25.600 they literally the unthinkable is suddenly very much our reality. 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.200 And I remember the policeman coming tracking us down in 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:37.639 this country lodge mountain lodge, and distinctly thinking that it 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.520 was like one of those moments where your life path 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.600 splits that you never see coming, and it is completely unfathomable. 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.280 And you'll probably appreciate this a because I can't quite help. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.960 I can't really separate me the research from me the mother, 0:02:55.080 --> 0:03:00.600 and I remember thinking, like almost like an outer body experience, going, WHOA, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:05.639 I didn't see that coming. And that is now my life, 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.600 that we are going to be forced to live down 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:13.400 with this completely unexpected path and somehow have to survive 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.520 her loss. And I think the words were I mean, 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.800 I only now remember this because I've written about it 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.000 in my book, but you know, that's that's your life now, 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:27.079 time to sink or swim. And that was my survivor's mission. 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.560 And you see this a lot and the resilience literature 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:37.080 that people talk about as survivor's mission. And it was 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:42.080 crystal clear to me from that very first moment that 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.640 we were on We were fighting for survival and I 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.640 was bloody determined that we would somehow make it through. 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:59.280 And the obvious quest, how do you tackle something like that? 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.120 I know that you said that you know you're forced 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.560 and when you're forced down a certain road or in 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:10.760 a certain direction, then you have to put up or 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.080 shut up. Really, you know you have to. That's you can't. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.440 You've got no other option. It's a case of we 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.960 have to tackle that. How do you even start to 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:19.440 tackle something like that. 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.680 I think and truth. So so I do lots of 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.440 work nowadays. We run a program called Coping with Loss, 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:32.240 and so I spent my life now talking to bereaved 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.839 people about how they can cope with loss. And so 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:38.520 what I'm talking to you about now is partly my 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.160 own experience and partly what I have seen work with others. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.800 And the first thing is that you've somehow got a 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.919 believe that you're going to get through. And I didn't 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:53.760 want to be a victim. And we were told that 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.840 we were now prime candidates for divorce, mental illness, and 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.960 family estrangement in that first week, and I remember thinking, WHOA, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.080 thanks for that. I thought my life was already pretty shit. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.279 Can't believe that you're just making it worse for me. 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.320 And I became very determined to think, Okay, that's not 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.200 happening on my watch. And that's kind of mamma bear 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.440 instinct thing of just going naw, we're not doing that. 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.560 I am going to hold my family together and we're 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.039 somehow going to get through this. I knew, of course, 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:29.720 I had all my training to lean on, and even 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.880 in those first earliest days and weeks, I was using 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:38.159 tools such as really thinking about where I was focusing 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.279 my attention. And so I had this voice in my 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.960 head that said, choose life not death. Don't lose what 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.320 you have to what you've lost. And we are fortunate 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:54.880 enough to have two beautiful sons who were teenagers at 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.960 the time, and I was really determined to live for 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.479 them and be there for them, and they needed me 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:05.200 right now. You know, we needed to somehow cobble together 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:12.240 a family existence that was going to enable us to 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.479 just get through the days and weeks. All of what 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.800 I'd learned in the disaster recovery was really helpful. For instance, 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.160 I knew that it would be helpful to us to 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.840 create some semblance of a normal routine. And you know, 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.800 I'm being using the word routine really loosely here. We 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:32.479 would get up in the morning and walk the dog 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.120 and have a cup of coffee, and then you know, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.240 talk to other people, and then have some lunch and 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.720 then walk the dogs again, see the kids after school. 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.599 But getting the kids wanted to go back to school, 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.880 and I think me knowing that that would help them, 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.560 knowing from my training, that we let them go back 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:52.480 much sooner. 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.239 Than trying to lead a sort of semi normal life 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:56.960 without too much disruption. 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:01.279 Ye, mainly functioning was my goal. I remember my husband 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.640 and I talking about that, saying, you know, we can't 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.279 control so much of this, but if we just endeavor 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.760 to kind of mainly function, and if we acknowledge when 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.200 we can't do that, that it's okay to lie on 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.160 the character and not get out of bed, then there's 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.280 a lot of self compassion. And in my I don't 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:21.880 know if you see in my ted talk, but those 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:26.480 are those three secrets of resilience I think are that 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:31.560 These are my kind of three sort of tools of resilience. 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.040 That is self compassion. You've got to be kind to 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:39.680 yourself and let yourself off the hook and lower the 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.320 bar and do what you can. So that's the first bit. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:49.440 And then this ability to really be or grow yourself 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:54.120 awareness over where you are putting your attention, and then 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.760 asking yourself, is what I'm doing, the way I'm choosing 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.520 to think, act, or be helping or harming me in 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.760 my quest to get through this. So those were my 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:09.720 absolute foundational resilience tools I had picked up at the 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:13.720 University of Pennsylvania that without doubt came and saved me. 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:27.239 Next you're here from the amazing Gina Chick. She spoke 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.200 to me about the loss of her daughter Blaze. 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.200 Grief demands to be felt, and we live in a 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:39.400 culture that I think doesn't have healthy ceremonies and rituals 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.959 and language about grief, you know, stiff up a lip 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:48.000 and emotions are suspect and well, it's very inconvenient, incredibly uncomfortable. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.160 We're just going to make that go away, shall we. 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.240 And I don't hold to that at all, like I 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:57.640 would rather let the ocean of emotion roll through me. 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.839 For me, emotions are like weather. They come and they go, 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.920 and a storm doesn't stay storming on you for months. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:07.680 A storm comes and then it goes, and then there's 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.360 another storm, but then there's some sunshine in between, and sudden, 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.520 you know, the ocean is beautiful and calm and clear 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.760 and like dazzling light one day and the next day 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.120 it's late these pounding waves that are like you know, 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.640 churning up the beach. That for me is the experience 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:27.079 of being in a body and having emotions. And so 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.320 I just asked, every day of grief, what do you 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:35.040 need from me? What is grief asking of me? To know, 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.360 and some days it was asking me to wail and 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.280 have tantrums, and other days it was asking me to 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.000 like laugh with my friends, and other days it was 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.079 asking me to make love, and other days it was 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:50.080 asking me to watch really bad TV. And other days 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.120 it was asking me to just look at the leaves 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.679 in the trees and not move for three hours and 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:58.959 not even know what I was doing, just be like 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.079 just looking at nothing, looking at looking at the waves, 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:08.920 or looking at the sun. And again, for me, it's 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.280 always about what is right right now? Is what is 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.680 this moment asking of me? That's how I got through 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.439 That's how I got through pregnant with cancer, That's how 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.160 I got through all of the situation with her, That's 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.160 how I got through grief. It's like what is right 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.440 right now? And then some days it's like, I don't 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.520 want to feel this right now, So right now, I'm 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.520 going to eat all of the ice cream and eat 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.320 all of the chocolate and just you know, eat my 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.760 feelings and make it all go away. And then there's 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.600 other times I'm like, no, now, I can absolutely dive 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.320 to the bottom of myself and I can feel every 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.439 single sceric of this feeling and like wail to the heavens, 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:47.720 and then on the other side of that, I'd feel 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:52.080 clean and clear. I'm very blessed, I think to have 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:58.000 had a life where I've learned how to process my 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.400 feelings and to try trust my body. I trust my 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.000 body and I trust the movement of my feelings through 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:09.000 my body. So grieving has been huge because it is. 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.480 But the other thing for me is that grief is 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.640 the flip side of the coin of love. And however 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:19.280 much we love, that's how much we grieve, love that 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.920 for that which has been lost. And so the bigger 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.520 our love, the more the grief hurts. But the grief 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:27.920 is that that says that I feel and I'm alive 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:29.240 and I breathe and I love. 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.720 Yeah that's a positive, right, that's a positive grief tribute. 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.560 Yeah, it's like, oh wow, this is really hurting because 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.320 that's how big my heart is right now. And to 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.920 be able to map my heart and see whoa like, 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.520 my heart is so big it goes to that horizon 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:49.319 and my heart is so big it goes to those 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.600 stars because that's how big my grief is. But that 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.600 is how big my heart is. It stopped being for 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.200 me and negative and just starts being a part of 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:04.000 being a wow and what a gift. I think a 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.080 lot of people who've lost will tell you that part 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:11.880 of the gift of losing someone is the recognition that 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.880 every breath is a gift. Every breath that I have 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.320 means that I'm alive, and that is part of the 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.880 gift of losing her. I'm just like, well, here's another one. 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:21.720 I'm still alive. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.040 My final guest is my good friend Sophia Vivaji. Her 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.360 daughter Azalea was just eight months old when she lost 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.440 her battle with leukemia. I asked Sophia how she stopped 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.400 herself from going into a dark place in that devastating time. 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:48.240 Yeah, it's really interesting. 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.240 Never did I think I would be sat here now 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:56.640 being able to help and inspire so many people. The 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:01.720 fact that my daughter has give me a second life, 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.120 I'd say, I feel like I'm in my second life, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:10.400 and I feel like watching her inspire millions of people 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.559 around the world, Seeing like huge monuments light up around 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:17.240 the world showed me that the world is my oyster. 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.319 She showed me that the power is within you as 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.240 a person, and in your darkest times, you get the 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.560 f up and you continue to fight. 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:28.600 Is that what you do? 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.000 You just you just get the f up, right, because 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.079 at the moment you don't, you're done. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:34.360 Yeah? 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:34.880 Is that right? 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:35.479 Absolutely? 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.839 So you need to get up all the time, right then, 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.760 you need to, and you need to you say, get 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.200 the f up. It's like, get the f up for 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:44.840 what purpose? 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.000 To to help others? Yeah? So for me, it's about 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:48.880 giving back. 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.640 For me, it's about expanding the mind of myself, the 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:53.839 muscles in my mind. 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.320 I get great achievement of delivering. 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:04.800 New avenues for different people watching my platform and seeing 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.760 people getting up going to do driving lessons again because 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.120 they've watched me on TikTok Live. I'm having bad days sometimes, 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.840 so sometimes I put measures in place. I did a 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.080 ten o'clock alarm. I'm walking through how can't get up, 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:23.320 can't shower, I can't even think to put clothes on 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:28.120 in that day. Then I set myself at ten o'clock alarm, 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.040 and that is when that alarm goes off, that is 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.160 the time to get the eff orp. So we go 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.160 and take a shower and then it unfolds my day. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.000 Then it makes me feel like, right, I want to 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.280 be powerful. I appreciate each day that I get. What 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.440 impact can I make in each of these days that 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.000 I've got? So I don't know how long my life's 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.240 going to be, but what impact are we creating? 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:51.520 I love helping people. 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:56.960 Watching people expand and be in credible and a better 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:01.320 version of themselves is something that in spires me. So 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.000 the fact that I've started hearing people say to me, 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.400 oh my god, I'll watch you so inspirational, Oh my god, 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:07.280 how do you do that? 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.120 And oh my god, how I've been one of them? 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.920 And I just I don't see that at myself. Maybe 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:14.880 I should give myself a little bit more credit, but 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.600 I don't see that. All I see is Sophia survive them. 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.720 But me surviving is helping other people is powerful. 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:23.840 You know what. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.800 I don't envy U. 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.920 I sort of fear for you because you've got no 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.000 choice but to get the f up, because not like 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.360 many people when they don't, they're just at the moment 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:40.760 you don't, you're scared, you're done. And I see that 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.760 in Ashley as well. Keeps on going and going and going, 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.320 and I think you're going to have to stop one day, 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.360 but you can't because of the moment you do and 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.280 I fear for you. I sort of think, Wow, you've 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.280 got no option but to get the f up. What 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.560 happens one day when you don't? 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:00.280 So I have a different you. 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.840 And this is also something that I've really thought about 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.040 long and hard, and I think because I've worked on 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:12.680 my mental capacity from rock bottom, I feel like I 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.920 know when I get to different stages and through having therapy, 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.680 how I cope with them. So for me, turning my 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.920 pain into purpose was setting up the Azalea Foundation to 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.680 help so many of the children and families. However that 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.440 helps me, but on my bad, bad days, I learn 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.680 how to sit in that pain. Now I learn to 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.000 take a moment for myself. So I now start putting 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.600 things into place like I do hair masks, I do skincare, 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.720 I sit in my house and put on my favorite podcasts. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:46.240 I do the cleaning. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:51.120 I get lost in doing things for my house and 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.800 for me. So I'm no longer scared that I'm going 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.880 to hit that wall of not wanting to be here anymore, 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.200 because I really, in my darkest times, have taught myself 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.560 that life is precious. Children and many of the people 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.080 out there are fighting for their lives. How could I 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:15.720 take this gift so stupidly. How could I be so stupid. 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.800 And do this. Look at the change that I'm making. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.320 Look how many people's lives I'm saving and helping. 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.000 What about if I'm not here anymore. 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.200 I'm here now because I feel like I'm a light 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.720 on earth and my daughter is a light in heaven. 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.000 And it's time now that even if we're in them 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.520 dark places, which I've been recently, and I've just thought, 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:37.760 I turn pain into purpose. 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.560 If you'd like to hear the full interviews with doctor 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.760 Lucy Hone, Gina Chick, and Sophia Varagi are linked them 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.200 in the show notes. I hope you found this episode 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.560 as insightful as I did. If there's someone in your 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.320 life who might benefit from hearing these inspirational women, please 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.960 share this with them. If you're going through a difficult time, 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.680 remember support is always available. I'll leave links to the 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:09.199 sources in the show notes. I'm at Middleton. Catch you 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:10.600 again next time.