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Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Gaigle people of

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Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present.

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Speaker 2: Hi and here, I'm taking a short break and we'll

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Speaker 2: be back with more Headgame stories on the twenty second

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Speaker 2: of January. In the meantime, I wanted to take a

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Speaker 2: look back at some of our incredible guests. In this episode,

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Speaker 2: you'll hear from three women who have had to endure

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Speaker 2: unimaginable heartbreak. They've each lost a child and have had

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Speaker 2: to find a way through. I was blown away with

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Speaker 2: their insights and approaches to life, and I'm honored to

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Speaker 2: share them with you today. Firstly, you're here from doctor

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Speaker 2: Lucy Hone. Lucy is an expert in resilience and grief

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Speaker 2: and had to navigate her own loss when her young

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Speaker 2: daughter Abby was killed in a car accident. She spoke

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Speaker 2: to me about that horrific day.

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Speaker 3: It was an unsuspecting Saturday and we were all going

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Speaker 3: three families to buy can newly opened Mountain Bike Trail

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Speaker 3: and at the last minute, Abby, who was twelve years

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Speaker 3: old at the time, the phone rang and she said

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Speaker 3: can I go in Ella's car? So we said yeah, sure,

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Speaker 3: you know, they were tied at the hip, and we

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Speaker 3: thought nothing of it and dropped her off at the

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Speaker 3: network courts. So she went off with Ella, and we

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Speaker 3: were having dinner later on that night, and Ella's family

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Speaker 3: hadn't turned up, and we, as you do, just assumed

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Speaker 3: they were stuck in traffic or something had happened. But

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Speaker 3: we then got a phone call from the policeman saying

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Speaker 3: he was on his way to see us and there

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Speaker 3: been an accident and as they had driven down through

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Speaker 3: the back country tree lanes to come and join us,

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Speaker 3: and someone had driven through a stop sign at one

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Speaker 3: hundred kilometers an hour and crashed into their car and

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Speaker 3: killed Ella's mum, Sally, who was a really great friend

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Speaker 3: of mine, and Ella and Abby and so you know,

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Speaker 3: they literally the unthinkable is suddenly very much our reality.

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Speaker 3: And I remember the policeman coming tracking us down in

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Speaker 3: this country lodge mountain lodge, and distinctly thinking that it

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Speaker 3: was like one of those moments where your life path

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Speaker 3: splits that you never see coming, and it is completely unfathomable.

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Speaker 3: And you'll probably appreciate this a because I can't quite help.

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Speaker 3: I can't really separate me the research from me the mother,

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Speaker 3: and I remember thinking, like almost like an outer body experience, going, WHOA,

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Speaker 3: I didn't see that coming. And that is now my life,

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Speaker 3: that we are going to be forced to live down

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Speaker 3: with this completely unexpected path and somehow have to survive

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Speaker 3: her loss. And I think the words were I mean,

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Speaker 3: I only now remember this because I've written about it

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Speaker 3: in my book, but you know, that's that's your life now,

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Speaker 3: time to sink or swim. And that was my survivor's mission.

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Speaker 3: And you see this a lot and the resilience literature

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Speaker 3: that people talk about as survivor's mission. And it was

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Speaker 3: crystal clear to me from that very first moment that

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Speaker 3: we were on We were fighting for survival and I

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Speaker 3: was bloody determined that we would somehow make it through.

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Speaker 2: And the obvious quest, how do you tackle something like that?

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Speaker 2: I know that you said that you know you're forced

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Speaker 2: and when you're forced down a certain road or in

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Speaker 2: a certain direction, then you have to put up or

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Speaker 2: shut up. Really, you know you have to. That's you can't.

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Speaker 2: You've got no other option. It's a case of we

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Speaker 2: have to tackle that. How do you even start to

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Speaker 2: tackle something like that.

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Speaker 3: I think and truth. So so I do lots of

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Speaker 3: work nowadays. We run a program called Coping with Loss,

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Speaker 3: and so I spent my life now talking to bereaved

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Speaker 3: people about how they can cope with loss. And so

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Speaker 3: what I'm talking to you about now is partly my

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Speaker 3: own experience and partly what I have seen work with others.

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Speaker 3: And the first thing is that you've somehow got a

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Speaker 3: believe that you're going to get through. And I didn't

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Speaker 3: want to be a victim. And we were told that

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Speaker 3: we were now prime candidates for divorce, mental illness, and

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Speaker 3: family estrangement in that first week, and I remember thinking, WHOA,

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Speaker 3: thanks for that. I thought my life was already pretty shit.

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Speaker 3: Can't believe that you're just making it worse for me.

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Speaker 3: And I became very determined to think, Okay, that's not

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Speaker 3: happening on my watch. And that's kind of mamma bear

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Speaker 3: instinct thing of just going naw, we're not doing that.

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Speaker 3: I am going to hold my family together and we're

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Speaker 3: somehow going to get through this. I knew, of course,

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Speaker 3: I had all my training to lean on, and even

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Speaker 3: in those first earliest days and weeks, I was using

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Speaker 3: tools such as really thinking about where I was focusing

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Speaker 3: my attention. And so I had this voice in my

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Speaker 3: head that said, choose life not death. Don't lose what

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Speaker 3: you have to what you've lost. And we are fortunate

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Speaker 3: enough to have two beautiful sons who were teenagers at

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Speaker 3: the time, and I was really determined to live for

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Speaker 3: them and be there for them, and they needed me

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Speaker 3: right now. You know, we needed to somehow cobble together

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Speaker 3: a family existence that was going to enable us to

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Speaker 3: just get through the days and weeks. All of what

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Speaker 3: I'd learned in the disaster recovery was really helpful. For instance,

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Speaker 3: I knew that it would be helpful to us to

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Speaker 3: create some semblance of a normal routine. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm being using the word routine really loosely here. We

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Speaker 3: would get up in the morning and walk the dog

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Speaker 3: and have a cup of coffee, and then you know,

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Speaker 3: talk to other people, and then have some lunch and

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Speaker 3: then walk the dogs again, see the kids after school.

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Speaker 3: But getting the kids wanted to go back to school,

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Speaker 3: and I think me knowing that that would help them,

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Speaker 3: knowing from my training, that we let them go back

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Speaker 3: much sooner.

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Speaker 2: Than trying to lead a sort of semi normal life

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Speaker 2: without too much disruption.

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Speaker 3: Ye, mainly functioning was my goal. I remember my husband

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Speaker 3: and I talking about that, saying, you know, we can't

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Speaker 3: control so much of this, but if we just endeavor

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Speaker 3: to kind of mainly function, and if we acknowledge when

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Speaker 3: we can't do that, that it's okay to lie on

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Speaker 3: the character and not get out of bed, then there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of self compassion. And in my I don't

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Speaker 3: know if you see in my ted talk, but those

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Speaker 3: are those three secrets of resilience I think are that

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Speaker 3: These are my kind of three sort of tools of resilience.

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Speaker 3: That is self compassion. You've got to be kind to

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Speaker 3: yourself and let yourself off the hook and lower the

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Speaker 3: bar and do what you can. So that's the first bit.

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Speaker 3: And then this ability to really be or grow yourself

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Speaker 3: awareness over where you are putting your attention, and then

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Speaker 3: asking yourself, is what I'm doing, the way I'm choosing

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Speaker 3: to think, act, or be helping or harming me in

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Speaker 3: my quest to get through this. So those were my

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Speaker 3: absolute foundational resilience tools I had picked up at the

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Speaker 3: University of Pennsylvania that without doubt came and saved me.

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Speaker 2: Next you're here from the amazing Gina Chick. She spoke

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Speaker 2: to me about the loss of her daughter Blaze.

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Speaker 4: Grief demands to be felt, and we live in a

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Speaker 4: culture that I think doesn't have healthy ceremonies and rituals

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Speaker 4: and language about grief, you know, stiff up a lip

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Speaker 4: and emotions are suspect and well, it's very inconvenient, incredibly uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: We're just going to make that go away, shall we.

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Speaker 4: And I don't hold to that at all, like I

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Speaker 4: would rather let the ocean of emotion roll through me.

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Speaker 4: For me, emotions are like weather. They come and they go,

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Speaker 4: and a storm doesn't stay storming on you for months.

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Speaker 4: A storm comes and then it goes, and then there's

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Speaker 4: another storm, but then there's some sunshine in between, and sudden,

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Speaker 4: you know, the ocean is beautiful and calm and clear

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Speaker 4: and like dazzling light one day and the next day

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Speaker 4: it's late these pounding waves that are like you know,

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Speaker 4: churning up the beach. That for me is the experience

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Speaker 4: of being in a body and having emotions. And so

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Speaker 4: I just asked, every day of grief, what do you

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Speaker 4: need from me? What is grief asking of me? To know,

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Speaker 4: and some days it was asking me to wail and

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Speaker 4: have tantrums, and other days it was asking me to

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Speaker 4: like laugh with my friends, and other days it was

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Speaker 4: asking me to make love, and other days it was

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Speaker 4: asking me to watch really bad TV. And other days

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Speaker 4: it was asking me to just look at the leaves

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Speaker 4: in the trees and not move for three hours and

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Speaker 4: not even know what I was doing, just be like

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Speaker 4: just looking at nothing, looking at looking at the waves,

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Speaker 4: or looking at the sun. And again, for me, it's

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Speaker 4: always about what is right right now? Is what is

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Speaker 4: this moment asking of me? That's how I got through

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Speaker 4: That's how I got through pregnant with cancer, That's how

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Speaker 4: I got through all of the situation with her, That's

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Speaker 4: how I got through grief. It's like what is right

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Speaker 4: right now? And then some days it's like, I don't

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Speaker 4: want to feel this right now, So right now, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to eat all of the ice cream and eat

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Speaker 4: all of the chocolate and just you know, eat my

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Speaker 4: feelings and make it all go away. And then there's

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Speaker 4: other times I'm like, no, now, I can absolutely dive

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Speaker 4: to the bottom of myself and I can feel every

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Speaker 4: single sceric of this feeling and like wail to the heavens,

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Speaker 4: and then on the other side of that, I'd feel

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Speaker 4: clean and clear. I'm very blessed, I think to have

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Speaker 4: had a life where I've learned how to process my

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Speaker 4: feelings and to try trust my body. I trust my

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Speaker 4: body and I trust the movement of my feelings through

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Speaker 4: my body. So grieving has been huge because it is.

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Speaker 4: But the other thing for me is that grief is

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Speaker 4: the flip side of the coin of love. And however

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Speaker 4: much we love, that's how much we grieve, love that

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Speaker 4: for that which has been lost. And so the bigger

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Speaker 4: our love, the more the grief hurts. But the grief

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Speaker 4: is that that says that I feel and I'm alive

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Speaker 4: and I breathe and I love.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that's a positive, right, that's a positive grief tribute.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like, oh wow, this is really hurting because

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Speaker 4: that's how big my heart is right now. And to

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Speaker 4: be able to map my heart and see whoa like,

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Speaker 4: my heart is so big it goes to that horizon

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Speaker 4: and my heart is so big it goes to those

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Speaker 4: stars because that's how big my grief is. But that

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Speaker 4: is how big my heart is. It stopped being for

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Speaker 4: me and negative and just starts being a part of

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Speaker 4: being a wow and what a gift. I think a

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Speaker 4: lot of people who've lost will tell you that part

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Speaker 4: of the gift of losing someone is the recognition that

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Speaker 4: every breath is a gift. Every breath that I have

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Speaker 4: means that I'm alive, and that is part of the

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Speaker 4: gift of losing her. I'm just like, well, here's another one.

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Speaker 4: I'm still alive.

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Speaker 2: My final guest is my good friend Sophia Vivaji. Her

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Speaker 2: daughter Azalea was just eight months old when she lost

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Speaker 2: her battle with leukemia. I asked Sophia how she stopped

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Speaker 2: herself from going into a dark place in that devastating time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really interesting.

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Speaker 6: Never did I think I would be sat here now

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Speaker 6: being able to help and inspire so many people. The

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Speaker 6: fact that my daughter has give me a second life,

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Speaker 6: I'd say, I feel like I'm in my second life,

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Speaker 6: and I feel like watching her inspire millions of people

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Speaker 6: around the world, Seeing like huge monuments light up around

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Speaker 6: the world showed me that the world is my oyster.

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Speaker 6: She showed me that the power is within you as

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Speaker 6: a person, and in your darkest times, you get the

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Speaker 6: f up and you continue to fight.

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Speaker 5: Is that what you do?

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Speaker 2: You just you just get the f up, right, because

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Speaker 2: at the moment you don't, you're done.

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely?

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Speaker 2: So you need to get up all the time, right then,

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Speaker 2: you need to, and you need to you say, get

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Speaker 2: the f up. It's like, get the f up for

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Speaker 2: what purpose?

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Speaker 5: To to help others? Yeah? So for me, it's about

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Speaker 5: giving back.

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Speaker 6: For me, it's about expanding the mind of myself, the

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Speaker 6: muscles in my mind.

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Speaker 5: I get great achievement of delivering.

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Speaker 6: New avenues for different people watching my platform and seeing

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Speaker 6: people getting up going to do driving lessons again because

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Speaker 6: they've watched me on TikTok Live. I'm having bad days sometimes,

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Speaker 6: so sometimes I put measures in place. I did a

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Speaker 6: ten o'clock alarm. I'm walking through how can't get up,

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Speaker 6: can't shower, I can't even think to put clothes on

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Speaker 6: in that day. Then I set myself at ten o'clock alarm,

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Speaker 6: and that is when that alarm goes off, that is

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Speaker 6: the time to get the eff orp. So we go

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Speaker 6: and take a shower and then it unfolds my day.

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Speaker 6: Then it makes me feel like, right, I want to

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Speaker 6: be powerful. I appreciate each day that I get. What

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Speaker 6: impact can I make in each of these days that

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Speaker 6: I've got? So I don't know how long my life's

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Speaker 6: going to be, but what impact are we creating?

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Speaker 5: I love helping people.

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Speaker 6: Watching people expand and be in credible and a better

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Speaker 6: version of themselves is something that in spires me. So

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Speaker 6: the fact that I've started hearing people say to me,

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Speaker 6: oh my god, I'll watch you so inspirational, Oh my god,

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Speaker 6: how do you do that?

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Speaker 2: And oh my god, how I've been one of them?

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Speaker 6: And I just I don't see that at myself. Maybe

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Speaker 6: I should give myself a little bit more credit, but

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Speaker 6: I don't see that. All I see is Sophia survive them.

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Speaker 6: But me surviving is helping other people is powerful.

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Speaker 2: You know what.

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Speaker 5: I don't envy U.

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Speaker 2: I sort of fear for you because you've got no

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Speaker 2: choice but to get the f up, because not like

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Speaker 2: many people when they don't, they're just at the moment

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Speaker 2: you don't, you're scared, you're done. And I see that

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Speaker 2: in Ashley as well. Keeps on going and going and going,

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Speaker 2: and I think you're going to have to stop one day,

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Speaker 2: but you can't because of the moment you do and

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Speaker 2: I fear for you. I sort of think, Wow, you've

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Speaker 2: got no option but to get the f up. What

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Speaker 2: happens one day when you don't?

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Speaker 5: So I have a different you.

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Speaker 6: And this is also something that I've really thought about

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Speaker 6: long and hard, and I think because I've worked on

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Speaker 6: my mental capacity from rock bottom, I feel like I

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Speaker 6: know when I get to different stages and through having therapy,

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Speaker 6: how I cope with them. So for me, turning my

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Speaker 6: pain into purpose was setting up the Azalea Foundation to

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Speaker 6: help so many of the children and families. However that

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Speaker 6: helps me, but on my bad, bad days, I learn

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Speaker 6: how to sit in that pain. Now I learn to

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Speaker 6: take a moment for myself. So I now start putting

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Speaker 6: things into place like I do hair masks, I do skincare,

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Speaker 6: I sit in my house and put on my favorite podcasts.

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Speaker 5: I do the cleaning.

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Speaker 6: I get lost in doing things for my house and

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Speaker 6: for me. So I'm no longer scared that I'm going

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Speaker 6: to hit that wall of not wanting to be here anymore,

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Speaker 6: because I really, in my darkest times, have taught myself

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Speaker 6: that life is precious. Children and many of the people

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Speaker 6: out there are fighting for their lives. How could I

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Speaker 6: take this gift so stupidly. How could I be so stupid.

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Speaker 5: And do this. Look at the change that I'm making.

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Speaker 6: Look how many people's lives I'm saving and helping.

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Speaker 5: What about if I'm not here anymore.

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Speaker 6: I'm here now because I feel like I'm a light

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Speaker 6: on earth and my daughter is a light in heaven.

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Speaker 6: And it's time now that even if we're in them

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Speaker 6: dark places, which I've been recently, and I've just thought,

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Speaker 6: I turn pain into purpose.

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Speaker 2: If you'd like to hear the full interviews with doctor

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Speaker 2: Lucy Hone, Gina Chick, and Sophia Varagi are linked them

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Speaker 2: in the show notes. I hope you found this episode

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Speaker 2: as insightful as I did. If there's someone in your

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Speaker 2: life who might benefit from hearing these inspirational women, please

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Speaker 2: share this with them. If you're going through a difficult time,

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Speaker 2: remember support is always available. I'll leave links to the

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Speaker 2: sources in the show notes. I'm at Middleton. Catch you

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Speaker 2: again next time.