Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never
Speaker 1: exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, staid,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with Olympic
Speaker 1: champion Matt Mitcham. Now you would think that someone who
Speaker 1: has a drive and skills to be an Olympic champion
Speaker 1: at the age of twenty, life would be pretty easy.
Speaker 1: But as is often the case with our guests that
Speaker 1: we get on my catch killers, sometimes it's not the
Speaker 1: good things that define a person, but it's other things
Speaker 1: in their life. And if you listen to Part one.
Speaker 1: Matt talked about his upbringing, his childhood and how he
Speaker 1: got to the point where he was selected in the
Speaker 1: Australian Olympic team to compete at the two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight Beijing Olympics, and we left it as Matt was
Speaker 1: just about to take us into the Olympic village. Matt,
Speaker 1: welcome back.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Talk me through the excitement of competing, the competing at
Speaker 1: the Olympics, your first Olympics. What was the feeling like.
Speaker 2: The Olympics is Yeah, I mean, obviously it's like the
Speaker 2: pinnacle of you know, what you've been working towards. So
Speaker 2: you know, it's everything all of those Olympics that you watch,
Speaker 2: you know, as a kid, and everything that you've been
Speaker 2: training for for you know, ten to fifteen years. It's
Speaker 2: kind of happening, and so it's easy to it'll be
Speaker 2: easy to kind of get overwhelmed just by that and
Speaker 2: you know, potentially psych yourself out. And the Olympic village
Speaker 2: is this crazy, bizarre utopia where everything is i mean,
Speaker 2: everything is lush and green and perfect, and everybody is
Speaker 2: like tall and beautiful and just like stupidly perfect. And
Speaker 2: it's so bizarre because it's then surrounded by these three
Speaker 2: meter tall braza wire fences, and they usually build these
Speaker 2: huge villages out in like you know quite you know,
Speaker 2: low socioeconomic areas because that's where it's cheapest to buy
Speaker 2: the land. And so it's like you go from like
Speaker 2: this green, perfect, lush utopia to these razor wire fences
Speaker 2: and then just just like like poverty on the other
Speaker 2: side of it. It's just it's so bizarre. But you know,
Speaker 2: when you know, don't think about that stuff and just
Speaker 2: kind of have a look at, you know, your immediate surroundings,
Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's uh, I guess it's like a kind
Speaker 2: of a dope feast for the brain. Like is everything's
Speaker 2: just you know, like overload, right, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and there's this athlete, there's that athlete and
Speaker 1: all these all these world stars. The mindset you go
Speaker 1: in there because you went there to win, didn't you. You
Speaker 1: weren't you weren't going to be satisfied with just competing.
Speaker 1: This was the matt I've got to be the best here.
Speaker 1: I'm going to win. This is that the attitude that
Speaker 1: you went in with.
Speaker 2: Like I had to, I had to kind of put
Speaker 2: those sorts of thoughts aside, Like those sorts of thoughts
Speaker 2: did occur. But you know, diving is one of those
Speaker 2: sports where it's not about like absolute speed or absolute
Speaker 2: strength or absolute endurance, where you know the harder you try,
Speaker 2: the better you're going to get. It's like diving is
Speaker 2: the complete opposite. It's a sport of absolute precision, where
Speaker 2: trying anything other than exactly how much you have practiced
Speaker 2: to try is going to have the adverse effect. And
Speaker 2: so any of these thoughts, like, you know, I definitely
Speaker 2: did have. I knew I would do pretty well because
Speaker 2: I you know, I had won the last international, I'd
Speaker 2: won several of medals throughout the year and then but
Speaker 2: they've been getting better and better, and I won gold
Speaker 2: in the last international competition before the Olympics, So I
Speaker 2: knew I was doing well and I knew that I
Speaker 2: had a potential to win a medal, and you know,
Speaker 2: so I did, and I did two events. I did three.
Speaker 2: Mind of spring board, I mean that was never my
Speaker 2: main event. I came I think sixteenth or something, but
Speaker 2: then and I think that was kind of a nice
Speaker 2: warm up for platform, which was the main event, and
Speaker 2: that was at the very end, and I came second
Speaker 2: in the preliminary round where they cut the fifty eight
Speaker 2: divers down to eighteen. Yeah, so it went China, me, China,
Speaker 2: and then everybody else. And then in the semi final,
Speaker 2: I came second again after the other Chinese divers, so
Speaker 2: they swapped positions, and so you know, I knew, well,
Speaker 2: I guess the pessimist of me. Yeah, well, the pessimist
Speaker 2: in me was kind of like, okay, well, both Chinese
Speaker 2: divers have beaten me here, so you know, I've got
Speaker 2: a really good chance of winning a bronze medal here.
Speaker 2: But again, those sorts of thoughts are quite counterproductive, and
Speaker 2: so you just had to kind of let those go
Speaker 2: every time the thought like that would happen. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then as we got to the final, I don't keep
Speaker 2: track of of what anybody else is doing, and I
Speaker 2: don't keep track of like all I do is have
Speaker 2: a look at what scores I get and what total
Speaker 2: score I get. I don't even keep track of kind
Speaker 2: of what my progressive like what my cumulative score is
Speaker 2: through the competition, because from there I can deduce like
Speaker 2: how close to you know, my you know, how close
Speaker 2: to my PB I'm getting you know that sort of thing,
Speaker 2: and and and maybe make some inferences on you know,
Speaker 2: what other people would usually score in total. So you know,
Speaker 2: these are all ways that my brain can try and
Speaker 2: trick me to start thinking in counterproductive ways. So you know, so, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was That's what I was doing. I was just
Speaker 2: keeping track of, you know, the scores that I was
Speaker 2: getting from the judges, just to you know, to see
Speaker 2: if that aligned with how it felt. And in the
Speaker 2: and I felt like I was. I was diving well,
Speaker 2: and you know, I saved my highest degree of difficulty
Speaker 2: dive for the for the end, you know, to have
Speaker 2: a really big finisher. So that was the hardest dive
Speaker 2: in the Olympics. And and I'd done it really well
Speaker 2: in the semi final and scored over one hundred points,
Speaker 2: which is like like it's unhurt, Like it's extremely rare
Speaker 2: to score over one hundred points on on any dive.
Speaker 2: And so in the in the stairwell just before my
Speaker 2: last dive that you know, there was a Chinese diver
Speaker 2: before me, and when he did his dive, I heard
Speaker 2: the whole crowd go ooh. And I didn't know as
Speaker 2: in good or as in bad. I didn't know, and
Speaker 2: I didn't want to know. So I blocked my ears
Speaker 2: and went lah la la la lah as they were
Speaker 2: as the judges were reading out the scores, because I
Speaker 2: didn't want that to impact, you know, how I was
Speaker 2: about to do my dive, and I definitely had the
Speaker 2: thought in the stairwell that you know, if my name
Speaker 2: comes up on top of the leaderboard after my dive,
Speaker 2: that means that I've got an Olympic silver medal, because
Speaker 2: I just assumed that the Chinese diver after me was
Speaker 2: was going to win, right, you know, But if I
Speaker 2: did get a one after my score, because you dive
Speaker 2: in reverse order, so because I came second in the
Speaker 2: semi final, I was diving second last, So if I
Speaker 2: got if I came first after my dive, that means
Speaker 2: I've got an Olympic silver Maryland. But I had to
Speaker 2: let that go. And you know, so I've seen like
Speaker 2: footage I've seen of it. You know, as focused as
Speaker 2: I thought I was, I was still kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: acutely aware that there were there were cameras, there were
Speaker 2: there were people watching. You know, I'm walking to the
Speaker 2: end doing my hair. You're want to look your best exactly.
Speaker 2: But you know, but I don't remember anything from from
Speaker 2: you know, when I once I reached the end of
Speaker 2: the platform, it was like, you know, one of those
Speaker 2: textbook zone like flow state moments that.
Speaker 1: Would have to be the zone that you hope to achieve.
Speaker 1: Get into that with no thoughts are out, you're just
Speaker 1: in the zone. Literally, Yeah, you talk. It was your
Speaker 1: most difficult dive. Explain in Layman's terms what the dive involves,
Speaker 1: so it confuses to confuse us.
Speaker 2: All it's a backward facing dive, and it's got two
Speaker 2: and a half somersaults in it and two and a
Speaker 2: half full twists in it. So what's that three sixty
Speaker 2: plus three sixty seven twenty plus another one eighty is like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, a thousand or something. I didn't go
Speaker 2: to school for math, But yeah, that's it's a lot
Speaker 2: of twists and a lot of somersaults. So two and
Speaker 2: a half somersaults, two and a half twists, and it
Speaker 2: was the highest degree of difficulty dive in the Olympics
Speaker 2: at the time. And yeah, so I and I knew
Speaker 2: it was a good scorer because I'd done it quite
Speaker 2: well in well.
Speaker 1: And it is true, is the highest score in the
Speaker 1: Olympic history for that at that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So after I did the dive, I you know
Speaker 2: like it felt kind of it felt good, but you know,
Speaker 2: like it I felt like it could have maybe gone
Speaker 2: a hair one way or the other. And when the
Speaker 2: crowd was when I surfirst after the dive and the
Speaker 2: crowd was just going absolutely ballistic in the water cube,
Speaker 2: I knew that I had done a really good dive
Speaker 2: and and so I was like thanking the crowd, which
Speaker 2: is customary to do in China. And then the scores
Speaker 2: came up ten ten nine and a half, ten ten
Speaker 2: nine and a half, nine and a half, and there
Speaker 2: was a there was a one next to it. That's
Speaker 2: all I saw, was just the one next to my name,
Speaker 2: and I lost it, thinking that like I had an
Speaker 2: Olympic silver medal. And and you know, then we I
Speaker 2: went to the side of the pool, like people were
Speaker 2: congratulating me already just for you know, doing the good dive.
Speaker 2: We all stopped to watch the last diver of the competition,
Speaker 2: the Chinese diver, who was actually doing the same dive
Speaker 2: as me, and he bombed it like a huge splash,
Speaker 2: like just completely surprised everybody, and you know, it didn't
Speaker 2: even meddle, and so I stayed up on top, and
Speaker 2: you know, the whole diving community just engulfed me, which
Speaker 2: was a really beautiful moment, like everyone just standing there
Speaker 2: waiting patiently for their turn to congratulate me. It was
Speaker 2: really really lovely moment. And I had no idea at
Speaker 2: the time, Like all I know, all I knew was that,
Speaker 2: you know, I got the gold medal. I had no
Speaker 2: idea that it was an Olympic record of the highest
Speaker 2: scoring dive in Olympic history. I had no idea that
Speaker 2: I'd set the Olympic record already for the highest scoring
Speaker 2: dive in Olympic history in the semi final. So I
Speaker 2: broke my own Olympic record. I had the two highest
Speaker 2: scoring dives in Olympic history for quite a number of years.
Speaker 1: Do you like to do things in a big way,
Speaker 1: don't you?
Speaker 2: Pretty much? And what I also didn't know was that
Speaker 2: in doing that, in coming out before Beijing, it made
Speaker 2: me the first openly gay, at least male, but the
Speaker 2: first openly g that I can find Olympic gold medalist
Speaker 2: in history.
Speaker 1: Well, at twenty, you do things in a big way.
Speaker 1: Don't you like when you shine, you shine very bright.
Speaker 1: I'm just I've got a smile on my face because
Speaker 1: I just think you've taken this through your journey, and
Speaker 1: I just think it must be overwhelming, the euphoria or
Speaker 1: the relief or just what's the feelings that you get
Speaker 1: that you've achieved something you set out to achieve. Relief
Speaker 1: and such a grand scale.
Speaker 2: It was relief. I like literally the the feeling that
Speaker 2: I remember when stepping onto the podium, it was just
Speaker 2: relief that like it had all been worth it. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: basically just that it had been worth it, you know,
Speaker 2: going through those years of sticking with it when I
Speaker 2: didn't you know, when I wasn't loving it coming back.
Speaker 2: You know, I was so poor when I came back
Speaker 2: for that fifteen months, like because I I had no funding,
Speaker 2: because I hadn't achieved anything yet, and so you know,
Speaker 2: I was working in this office for five hours a day,
Speaker 2: five days a week, like I was. In order to
Speaker 2: fit everything into the day, I was always running. I
Speaker 2: was running to the train station. I was running from
Speaker 2: the train station to the pool. I was running from
Speaker 2: the pool back to the train station. I was running
Speaker 2: from the train station to the work office and then
Speaker 2: back up to like you know, always running, always falling
Speaker 2: asleep on trains. All I could really afford was basically,
Speaker 2: like you know, a can of tuna and two minute
Speaker 2: noodles for lunch every day, and maybe a tin of
Speaker 2: sweet corn if it was a particularly good week for
Speaker 2: me financially, and then the rest was just like you know,
Speaker 2: basically baked beans on toast for dinner, and like that's
Speaker 2: literally what I was subsisting on because I was just I'm.
Speaker 1: Just thinking of a sponsorship deal here for if anything,
Speaker 1: they knew in the lead up, look that it's an
Speaker 1: incredible story and I can only imagine and it sounds
Speaker 1: like your life. And I've had those times in my
Speaker 1: life where you're five minutes behind everywhere you should be
Speaker 1: and it's just you're playing catch up. But your event
Speaker 1: at what stage in the Olympics was it a ladder
Speaker 1: or in the middle of the Olympics.
Speaker 2: Like the two weeks it was the last day.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a shame, because I thought you might have
Speaker 1: given us stories about how you partied out after you
Speaker 1: one year gold and enjoy yourself, but say you would
Speaker 1: have had to stay focused the whole whole time.
Speaker 2: And I because I was so like paranoid about you know,
Speaker 2: doing anything that was going to jeopardize, you know, giving
Speaker 2: me the best chance. I did not. Like I stayed
Speaker 2: in my room for whenever I wasn't in the dining
Speaker 2: hall or at the pool, I was just in my
Speaker 2: room by myself, reading, you know, trying not to tie
Speaker 2: myself out. So I mean, to be fair, I was
Speaker 2: there to do a job exactly. But you know, but
Speaker 2: the Olympics do certainly put on a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: to you know, to make it an awesome experience for
Speaker 2: the athletes as well. I just didn't participate it.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about stand in on the diacet at
Speaker 1: the gold medal ceremony, how did you feel? And the
Speaker 1: Australian national anthem boone played and the gold medal place
Speaker 1: around your neck?
Speaker 2: There are a couple of you know, like I guess
Speaker 2: I was a little bit shell shocked. To be honest,
Speaker 2: I you know, the like I said, the only the
Speaker 2: only feeling I could actually recognize was relief. But I sang.
Speaker 2: I sang the national anthem loudly and proudly, and yeah
Speaker 2: I managed. I don't know where I got that flag
Speaker 2: from but someone gave me Australian flag and you know,
Speaker 2: around the pool deck with my astranged flag. I ran
Speaker 2: up to the stands and gave my partner at the
Speaker 2: time just a kiss on the cheek. Actually, I think
Speaker 2: my mother was Yeah, she was there as well. And
Speaker 2: then yeah, I went through and then it was just
Speaker 2: like media and interviews for a couple of hours after that,
Speaker 2: media in the media zone in the pool, and then
Speaker 2: they took me to non rights holders media outside the pool,
Speaker 2: and I think I got back to the village about
Speaker 2: must have been like two or three, and then had
Speaker 2: to be up again at five to start then doing
Speaker 2: the morning breakfast TV breakfast programs back in Australia. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it was crazy chaos chaos.
Speaker 1: Did that change you as a person at that point
Speaker 1: in time? Did you? And you're only twenty and when
Speaker 1: you look back at twenty, how NIGHI even ignorant stupid
Speaker 1: you are and you've got all that thrust upon you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how did it did it change?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It made me a monster? I mean I certainly
Speaker 2: did enjoy the validation for sure. You know this, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the gold medal has this this magical property of making
Speaker 2: you significantly more interesting and better looking and funnier, like
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's just magic. But I think eventually
Speaker 2: I started to feel like people only cared about the medal,
Speaker 2: like I was really just a bust to display the medal,
Speaker 2: to wear the medal. I still I had no no
Speaker 2: inherent value. It was the gold medal was the only
Speaker 2: thing that had value because that's what people were interested in. So,
Speaker 2: you know, the yeah, the validation that came with winning
Speaker 2: Olympic gold medal didn't last for very long. And then
Speaker 2: for some reason, at some stage after getting back from Beijing,
Speaker 2: I had to look at the world rankings and discovered
Speaker 2: that I was actually number two in the world because
Speaker 2: it's based off total total points and one of the
Speaker 2: Chinese divers had one more events earlier in the year
Speaker 2: than I had and so had to crud more total points.
Speaker 2: And so here I am. You know, I'm still not
Speaker 2: the best in the world. And you know, I think
Speaker 2: it had two effects. One of them was I used
Speaker 2: that as an impetus to set a new goal to become,
Speaker 2: you know, to get that number one world ranking, and
Speaker 2: I did. I got it. In twenty ten, I was
Speaker 2: ranked number one in the world, but it also, I
Speaker 2: guess had this huge knock to it just started a
Speaker 2: spiral for me. I think, you know, like still not
Speaker 2: being the best in the world, like you know, I
Speaker 2: guess all I can call it is like I had
Speaker 2: a relapse in my depression which had been in remission
Speaker 2: for a couple of years since I moved to Sydney
Speaker 2: and had this wonderful inclusive training environment and was happy diving.
Speaker 2: You know, I had some relief from that depression which
Speaker 2: I had had since I was fourteen, but it came
Speaker 2: back with a vengeance after beaching.
Speaker 1: Is there like the post's Olympic let down after it,
Speaker 1: and especially when you've achieved the gold medal, is there
Speaker 1: the highs and this has been the aim I've achieved it,
Speaker 1: you found another gold to achieve? Well, I want to
Speaker 1: be number one. The gold medal wasn't enough, so that
Speaker 1: drove you a little bit. But there and I see
Speaker 1: a lot of athletes, not just Olympic athletes but footballers
Speaker 1: and all that that they've left what's driven them the purpose.
Speaker 1: They've won their Grand Final, they've won the World Cup
Speaker 1: or done something, and then their life saw the spirals
Speaker 1: out of the control. I can understand it because I
Speaker 1: can understand being focused and driven and then you've achieved
Speaker 1: it and then ah, the world hasn't changed for me.
Speaker 1: It's I'm still the same person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. They call it like a yeah, an
Speaker 2: Olympic come down, and I think it's really it's it's
Speaker 2: it's a very appropriate analogy to use that the terminology
Speaker 2: that they use, like for for a drug come down,
Speaker 2: because you know, the Olympics is so it's such an
Speaker 2: intense experience, like in terms of like it's an intense
Speaker 2: sensory experience where there's so much going on all the time,
Speaker 2: and there's so much excitement you know, of the competition
Speaker 2: and you know, particularly if you know you have a
Speaker 2: really good competition, then there's even more excitement. So it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, you're just being flooded with dopamine and serotonin
Speaker 2: and are adrenaline like all the time, constantly for you know,
Speaker 2: for two weeks, and so of course you're going to
Speaker 2: be depleted when you like not even just not even
Speaker 2: just like you know, this the void of like you know,
Speaker 2: having this amazing experience that you've been working towards for
Speaker 2: a very long time and then you know it being
Speaker 2: over but even just chemically in your body, you're going
Speaker 2: to be so depleted and so you know it, I
Speaker 2: feel like it's a really appropriate analogy that and it's
Speaker 2: it's almost a ubiquitous kind of a universal experience of
Speaker 2: Olympians or you know, not even just Olympians, but like
Speaker 2: you know, like you said, maybe after a premiership or
Speaker 2: like a Grand final or whatever, that an athlete would
Speaker 2: feel that that that flat afterwards. And you know, and
Speaker 2: I think I did feel it. I mean I don't
Speaker 2: remember it being that horrific, but at the same time,
Speaker 2: I have seen it happen so many times with so
Speaker 2: many other athletes, like particularly, I need to expect it
Speaker 2: more when I did eventually retire from sport, because you know,
Speaker 2: you don't have that that purpose anymore. You don't have,
Speaker 2: you know, something that you don't have the structure anymore
Speaker 2: of something that you filled, you know, five hours a
Speaker 2: day with every day you know that you've got you've
Speaker 2: got five hours a day to an extra five hours
Speaker 2: a day to fill with something that's not just you
Speaker 2: sitting there with your thoughts going what like what am I?
Speaker 2: Who am I now? Like? What is my purpose? Like
Speaker 2: you know, if I don't have this thing that my
Speaker 2: identity has been so wrapped up with if I'm not
Speaker 2: doing that thing anymore, and that thing that that brought
Speaker 2: me so much validation and you know, and gave me
Speaker 2: some esteem in the world, like who am I'm? What
Speaker 2: am I doing? Like? Just being left alone with your
Speaker 2: thoughts for an extra five hours a day which you
Speaker 2: didn't aren't used to, can be a pretty dangerous place.
Speaker 2: And so no surprise, there's no surprise that, like you
Speaker 2: see so many athletes, I either turned to I guess
Speaker 2: probably alcohol to number feelings or to drugs to get
Speaker 2: potentially replicate replicate the feelings.
Speaker 1: And yeah, when you came back as the gold medalist
Speaker 1: and you continued in diving and you achieve your ultimate
Speaker 1: goal have been the world number one, were you financially supported?
Speaker 1: Like I've heard people say, gold medals don't don't set
Speaker 1: you up for life? Was it? Yeah, you didn't have
Speaker 1: to work as an admin assistant for five hours a
Speaker 1: day and eat baked beans and run and catch a train.
Speaker 1: Did the life change for you in that regards? In
Speaker 1: that I don't know Australian Institute, the sport or sponsorship
Speaker 1: or what happened there.
Speaker 2: Yes, so I didn't have to work as an admin
Speaker 2: assistant anymore, which was amazing. I could support myself by
Speaker 2: doing the diving just because you know, I was staying
Speaker 2: in the top three in the world for or the
Speaker 2: you know, for the next couple of years, which meant
Speaker 2: that I was getting access to you know, like training grants.
Speaker 2: But that was you know, that was basically how I
Speaker 2: was supporting himself. And I was doing public speaking every
Speaker 2: now and then, which brought in a little bit extra
Speaker 2: But I certainly wasn't raking in endorsement dollars, which is
Speaker 2: a shame, but you know, but I mean, there's nothing
Speaker 2: I could do with that. But you know, I'm just
Speaker 2: grateful that, you know, I could support myself and just
Speaker 2: focus on the sport for a few years.
Speaker 1: When you made the London Olympics, and I read in
Speaker 1: an interview or heard you talk about that, and you
Speaker 1: said that you felt a little bit more pressure on
Speaker 1: yourself going into the London Olympics. Quite ironically, after and
Speaker 1: you didn't medal in the London Olympics, it validated your
Speaker 1: gold medal that you won at the Beijing Olympics. There
Speaker 1: was a whole lot of mixed, mixed thoughts. Talk me
Speaker 1: through the London Olympics. Why you felt the pressure and
Speaker 1: why even though you didn't achieve what you want to do,
Speaker 1: achieve at the London Olympics, that validated what you did
Speaker 1: at the Beijing Olympics.
Speaker 2: So I had well, basically had a rock bottom, you know,
Speaker 2: in terms of my depression and how I was kind
Speaker 2: of not coping with that and how I was medicating
Speaker 2: with drugs and just and not being able to control it.
Speaker 1: Really, Matt, sorry, can I just interrupt you there for
Speaker 1: a sec now that you got the profile, did you
Speaker 1: and I know when I spoke to Tom Carroll, the
Speaker 1: two times World surfing champion, when he was using drugs,
Speaker 1: he felt pressure and responsibility because he was put up
Speaker 1: there on the pedestal and it was a bigger fall.
Speaker 1: Like if you would have been the front page if
Speaker 1: you were caught, yeah, with drugs. Did you feel the
Speaker 1: pressure of that as well?
Speaker 2: For sure? Like for sure I felt the pressure of Well,
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a good role model, you know,
Speaker 2: because there are enough bad role models in the world.
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like the world needed another one. But
Speaker 2: I also had a lot of shame about how I
Speaker 2: was feeling because it felt so unjustified, like I'm an
Speaker 2: Olympic champion. What have I got to be depressed about? Like,
Speaker 2: you know, and shaming myself for feeling shame about feeling
Speaker 2: bad about feeling bad doesn't make you feel less bad.
Speaker 2: It just kind of makes you feel more bad.
Speaker 1: And so it makes sense.
Speaker 2: So I, you know, it was so so just so
Speaker 2: desperate to change the way I felt, and so and
Speaker 2: but so ashamed of how I was feeling that I
Speaker 2: felt even less able to seek help for it. And
Speaker 2: so I just went back to the last sort of
Speaker 2: those last not coping mechanisms that I'd used as a
Speaker 2: teenager to change the way I felt, which was crystal meth.
Speaker 2: And you know, and then there's so much taboo and
Speaker 2: shame around that that that I guess perpetuated the secrecy
Speaker 2: of it. And I wasn't doing it to enhance my
Speaker 2: performance obviously, so and you know, there was drug testing
Speaker 2: at competitions, and so I would have to detox before
Speaker 2: every competition, and that detox before every competition was so horrible,
Speaker 2: Like it was just it was so horrific that I
Speaker 2: would promise myself with every single cell in my body
Speaker 2: that I wasn't going to use drugs again when I
Speaker 2: got back from that competition, and every single time, I
Speaker 2: couldn't keep that promise to myself. And you know, not
Speaker 2: being able to keep a promise to yourself that you
Speaker 2: have made like with absolute conviction and then to fail
Speaker 2: at that, it kind of tears yourself as to him
Speaker 2: in half, like again and again again, and you just
Speaker 2: feel just completely powerless and helpless. And you know, it
Speaker 2: took me six months of me trying to control it
Speaker 2: by myself for me to just I had no pride
Speaker 2: left to swallow. So that's when I finally reached out
Speaker 2: for help, which was just such an absolute last resort
Speaker 2: because you know, I couldn't I couldn't let anybody find
Speaker 2: out about what I was doing, but I just had to.
Speaker 2: I just had to take the risk and take myself
Speaker 2: off to rehab. And so you know, it's you know,
Speaker 2: that's when the journey of like you know, mental health
Speaker 2: and and all that started for me. And you know,
Speaker 2: I was also dealing with injuries, and you know, I
Speaker 2: had some stress fractures in my spine and then I
Speaker 2: had some abdominal tears which I kept on retearing because
Speaker 2: there was so much pressure to get ready for the
Speaker 2: next qualifying competition that I would you know, I would
Speaker 2: tear it again and again and again. And you know,
Speaker 2: so I was going into London like woefully underprepared, but
Speaker 2: I was still the best qualified in Australia to represent
Speaker 2: the country. And you know, so this expectation for me
Speaker 2: to defend my Olympic title was kind of really counterproductive
Speaker 2: for me because you know, when it's framed that way,
Speaker 2: to defend your Olympic title, anything other than a winners
Speaker 2: a failure. Like even if I had won a silver medal,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have defended my Olympic title. So even a
Speaker 2: silver medal would have been a failure, which is you know,
Speaker 2: it was a high bar that was. It was yeah,
Speaker 2: and and quite unhelpful, and so you know, I just
Speaker 2: had to kind of reframe that and go, you know what, like,
Speaker 2: I know, I'm not going to defend my Olympic title,
Speaker 2: but I am still the best person to represent the
Speaker 2: country at this period of time, and so I just
Speaker 2: kind of had to go based on that and go
Speaker 2: knowing that I was, that I was trying my best,
Speaker 2: and that I wasn't necessarily going to do my best,
Speaker 2: and and I didn't. I didn't do my best. I came,
Speaker 2: you know, I missed out on making the final by
Speaker 2: one place, and I was so disappointed, but you know,
Speaker 2: again had to kind of turn that around and go, no,
Speaker 2: I didn't do my best, but I did try my best.
Speaker 2: So they like, could I have done any more in
Speaker 2: the lead up to London, No, I probably should have
Speaker 2: done much less to have prevented lots of re injuries,
Speaker 2: but you know, I definitely try my best, and so
Speaker 2: I have to be happy with that. And you know,
Speaker 2: so I came back to the pool to watch the
Speaker 2: finals that I should have been in that I've always
Speaker 2: been in before, Like it was such a weird position
Speaker 2: to be watching the finals for the first time, and
Speaker 2: it was such an unusual experience, and I was so
Speaker 2: proud of the boys who were diving in the final,
Speaker 2: and I've never experienced that before and that pride. I
Speaker 2: was able to kind of turn around and feel it
Speaker 2: for myself because I'm usually in that position. And that
Speaker 2: was then like after it once I did that and recognized,
Speaker 2: you know that I had pride for myself for what
Speaker 2: I do and my achievements. That was then I realized
Speaker 2: the first time I actually appreciated that gold medal that
Speaker 2: I'd won in Beijing. That was the first time I
Speaker 2: didn't feel like that when in Beijing was a fluke
Speaker 2: and so you know, yeah, I didn't. I came away
Speaker 2: from London not with a medal, but with something that
Speaker 2: was so much more valuable because it meant that I,
Speaker 2: for the first time, was actually able to appreciate the
Speaker 2: gold medal that I did have.
Speaker 1: Well, just so why you're talking about there's a sense
Speaker 1: of zen and calmness and peace lead up to it,
Speaker 1: your striving, striving. Then it appears to be the first
Speaker 1: time you've sat there and gone, hey, yes, I did
Speaker 1: something worthwhile and I should be proud of it.
Speaker 2: It was a huge It was a huge mental and
Speaker 2: emotional win for me that that realization. So yeah, again,
Speaker 2: like that, I ended up leaving London with something far
Speaker 2: more valuable than what I left Beijing with.
Speaker 1: Amazing, isn't the mental health journey and the drug addiction.
Speaker 1: Where are you at with all all that? Now?
Speaker 2: I'm eight and a half years clean and sober, Like
Speaker 2: I haven't had anything stronger than a panadole or an
Speaker 2: eurofin in eight and a half years. I even I
Speaker 2: even raw dogged a minor wrist operation. Yeah, like I
Speaker 2: just you know, because I didn't want to. I just yeah,
Speaker 2: I think so, So that was that was that was
Speaker 2: pretty difficult. But then again, you know, paracetamoli is it's
Speaker 2: actually you know, very effective, you know, if you if
Speaker 2: you use it kind of as prescribed, it's actually very
Speaker 2: very effective and helping with pain. But yeah, so I
Speaker 2: had tendons cells harvested from my wrist in order for
Speaker 2: them to be grown up in a in a peach tradition,
Speaker 2: then reinjected into a separate tend and tear and yeah,
Speaker 2: that that was That was quite an experience. But because
Speaker 2: I was already in recovery, then you know, that was
Speaker 2: a choice that I made and I got through it,
Speaker 2: and you know, so that's that's where I am in
Speaker 2: terms of my you know, drug and alcohol journey is
Speaker 2: being you know nearly yeah, nearly nine years clean and sober.
Speaker 2: And then you know that like I will kind of
Speaker 2: admit that, you know, I've been a lot more. I
Speaker 2: was a lot more proactive, you know, kind of earlier
Speaker 2: on in my recovery about my mental health and you know,
Speaker 2: and it really showed, like my mental health was was
Speaker 2: much better. You know, when I do when I am struggling,
Speaker 2: I know, it's always because I'm not putting in any action,
Speaker 2: like I'm not putting any any maintenance. I'm not, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not kind of reflecting on a daily
Speaker 2: basis about you know, about the goods and bads of
Speaker 2: the day. And you know, reflection is just so important
Speaker 2: in order to you know, to to keep on growing
Speaker 2: and to prevent you know, slippery habits from from creeping
Speaker 2: back in or you know, or to you know, just
Speaker 2: just to give yourself a was a health check too,
Speaker 2: to see you know, where some unhealthy thoughts and feelings
Speaker 2: and patterns are starting to you know, to to root themselves.
Speaker 2: So you know, I certainly have struggles like extremely I've
Speaker 2: got quite severe ADHD and so I you know, I've
Speaker 2: been even though I've been medicated for that for nearly
Speaker 2: fifteen years, you know, it's I struggle with the symptoms
Speaker 2: of that. I've been struggling with the symptoms of that
Speaker 2: more in the past eighteen months than I have through
Speaker 2: my entire life. And you know, there's other stuff that
Speaker 2: I kind of you know that creep in or you know,
Speaker 2: I might be trying to replace my addiction with like
Speaker 2: maybe other behaviors like you know, acting out sexually or
Speaker 2: or you know, that's probably the where the biggest that's
Speaker 2: that's probably where I would struggle with most. And so
Speaker 2: it's a it's a constant process.
Speaker 1: You've talked in previous interviews about a gratitude list that
Speaker 1: you put forward. Is that something you keep in place,
Speaker 1: Is that something that you try and focus on, and
Speaker 1: then just explain what you got from compiling a gratitude
Speaker 1: list each day.
Speaker 2: A gratitude list. Gratitude lists are probably the you know,
Speaker 2: the best maintenance tool for me. And and you know,
Speaker 2: and I'm always I'm always doing best in life mentally
Speaker 2: when I am doing that practice, and you know, when
Speaker 2: I am strugg it's usually when that practice has dropped off.
Speaker 2: And it works in a couple of ways, you know,
Speaker 2: I think first of all, it it kind of it
Speaker 2: changes your frame of mind and the way that you
Speaker 2: interact with the world in that when you start off
Speaker 2: looking for things that you're grateful for, you kind of
Speaker 2: stop looking for, you know, evidence that the world is
Speaker 2: conspiring against you, and so you know. And the other
Speaker 2: thing is like I've I've because of my history of
Speaker 2: mental ill health, I have a fear of falling into
Speaker 2: depression again, you know, because it just feels like this big, scary,
Speaker 2: like black emptiness, and you know, and by doing this
Speaker 2: gratitude list, I don't have to fear, you know, this
Speaker 2: the black emptiness, because it's not going to be empty.
Speaker 2: Like if I do sort of fall into into depression,
Speaker 2: if I've thought of three things that I'm grateful for
Speaker 2: just that morning, I'll have those three things in my
Speaker 2: you know, in my big black hole with me, so
Speaker 2: I won't feel so empty. And then you just don't
Speaker 2: you don't have the fear of it anymore because and
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel so so bad and so scary, so
Speaker 2: and then you know, of course it's it. What I
Speaker 2: used to do with the gratitude lists as well, which
Speaker 2: I haven't haven't done for quite a long time, is
Speaker 2: I used to. Yeah, it's it's not for everyone, but
Speaker 2: it was perfect for me at the time. Was to
Speaker 2: make a little artwork out of each gratitude list, so
Speaker 2: literally just three things, but like do it in calligraphy
Speaker 2: or you know, or or maybe you know, take a
Speaker 2: photo of it and put some effects on it or whatever.
Speaker 2: But just that creative process was you know, it was
Speaker 2: quite meditative and quite mindful as well, and so you know,
Speaker 2: it just it worked on so many different levels. But
Speaker 2: I think the thing that was, you know, just at
Speaker 2: the topmost level, it just, you know, you foster an
Speaker 2: attitude of gratitude, You stop looking for evidence that the
Speaker 2: worlds worrying against you.
Speaker 1: It makes sense. But to me my observations and listening
Speaker 1: to your talk and having this conversation, you've set yourself
Speaker 1: up with some good tools, and you understand that that
Speaker 1: black hole's out there, that you could fall into it,
Speaker 1: but you've got tools to protect yourself from it. I
Speaker 1: got through years in homicide, and I don't think I
Speaker 1: suffered from it, but I knew when I was spiraling
Speaker 1: out of control. And I got into years ago meditation
Speaker 1: and the thing called jigun, which is like a moving
Speaker 1: form of meditation. And when I first started doing that,
Speaker 1: people thinking, oh, this is a bit weird, what's this
Speaker 1: cop doing turning up here. I didn't know why I
Speaker 1: was so driven to do it. I was doing hard training,
Speaker 1: but I was doing this soft training as well. I
Speaker 1: don't do it every day now. But it's there in
Speaker 1: like a toolbox that if I'm feel myself spiraling out
Speaker 1: of control, I can just okay, I need to check myself.
Speaker 1: I understand that I'm not looking at things properly, and
Speaker 1: that's that works for me. It might work for you
Speaker 1: different things. You just got to find that way to
Speaker 1: deal with things. I always know when I'm in a
Speaker 1: bad situation when I walk out in the street or
Speaker 1: through the city and every single person I pass annoys me,
Speaker 1: like someone doesn't step out of the way. This that
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, that those ten people in a row
Speaker 1: can't be wrong. Maybe it's the way I'm looking at
Speaker 1: the world at the moment. So yeah, just having those
Speaker 1: things in your back pocket that you can acknowledge it
Speaker 1: and deal with it. I think it's good. And seeing
Speaker 1: someone like you talk about it, someone that we look
Speaker 1: at you. You're a gold medalist. What have you got
Speaker 1: to complain about? You can strive, you can achieve, and
Speaker 1: to be so open, I think that's where it's powerful.
Speaker 1: The message that you're delivering. Let's talk about life posts
Speaker 1: the athlete, and I think you said at some point
Speaker 1: in time, you've got a job and you thought, actually
Speaker 1: this is I thought it. We'd be boring. But it's
Speaker 1: quite good getting a salary coming in and just going
Speaker 1: to work each day and quite fulfilling. Talk us through
Speaker 1: that transitional period where you've gone from being this elite
Speaker 1: athlete to ah, I'm just working like everyone else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I it was. I'm not gonna lie it was.
Speaker 2: It was a kind of a humbling process, I think too,
Speaker 2: kind of go from you know, for the first couple
Speaker 2: of years after I retired, a lot of my income
Speaker 2: was still coming from having a name that was recognizable.
Speaker 2: You know, like I read a book in twenty twelve
Speaker 2: turned into a stage show where I spoke a lot
Speaker 2: about you know, mental health and and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: And you know, that show did really really well. There
Speaker 2: was a follow on show and you know and speaking engagements.
Speaker 2: And then I moved to the UK and I tried
Speaker 2: to do sort of similar stuff. But my name didn't
Speaker 2: have any didn't carry the world. There's no currency, no
Speaker 2: no capital, not recognizable in any way, and therefore didn't
Speaker 2: open any opportunities. And so you know, that's when I
Speaker 2: realized that I, yeah, I couldn't I couldn't just rely
Speaker 2: on my name anymore to provide me opportunities, and so
Speaker 2: you know, I had to be like a normal person again.
Speaker 2: And and actually it was you know, while initially it
Speaker 2: was a very humbling, very difficult pill to swallow, because
Speaker 2: you know, all I've ever wanted since I was a
Speaker 2: child was to be special, because you know, I'm just
Speaker 2: so you know, even today, even though I recognize it,
Speaker 2: I do have a tendency to kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: start creeping towards you know, leaning more into external esteem
Speaker 2: every now and then. But yeah, it was, it was
Speaker 2: a humbling pill, and but actually I found it. I
Speaker 2: found it to be really lovely. You know, the because
Speaker 2: I go ever since I've been a child, I've had
Speaker 2: a lot of anxiety. And one of the areas that
Speaker 2: anxiety pops up in is financial anxiety. I think it's
Speaker 2: because I've never grown up in a house that has
Speaker 2: been owned.
Speaker 1: I can always be where that's coming from.
Speaker 2: Then there's always this, and there was always like there
Speaker 2: was always a shortage of money, like we I never
Speaker 2: I never went on a holiday as a child, like
Speaker 2: you know how you you know, your family go on
Speaker 2: like I don't know, camping holidays, caravan holidays or you
Speaker 2: know that I never like that never happened. I never
Speaker 2: went on holidays and I didn't go on I missed
Speaker 2: it on a lot of school like field trips as well,
Speaker 2: which I just put down to like, you know, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm doing sport like I wouldn't have time to do
Speaker 2: that anyway. But there was definitely, you know, and I
Speaker 2: lived as a five year old. When I was five,
Speaker 2: we lived without any electricity for six months. It's tough
Speaker 2: just because because you know, Mum, you know, kind of
Speaker 2: rightly in a way, refused to pay an extra fee
Speaker 2: to the power company, because the reason why we had
Speaker 2: to pay the extra fee in the first place was
Speaker 2: because she was so far behind on bills. But you know,
Speaker 2: so I think the not growing up in a house
Speaker 2: that we ever owned and moving around a fair bit,
Speaker 2: I think it had this impact of me feeling this
Speaker 2: need for safety and security and and this financial anxiety
Speaker 2: and and so it's really long way to go about
Speaker 2: saying that, you know, all of the income that I
Speaker 2: had up until that point, you know, with the cabaret
Speaker 2: show or you know, speaking engagements and stuff, they're all
Speaker 2: sporadic and unpredictable and inconsistent forms of income. And I
Speaker 2: was getting myself into, you know, some some debt, so,
Speaker 2: you know, actually having consistent, regular income. It was really
Speaker 2: nice to not have to stress about where the next
Speaker 2: money was coming from.
Speaker 1: It makes a lot of sense. I'm interested in some
Speaker 1: of the things that you've done post career, and you
Speaker 1: talked about the cabaret show on You did a book
Speaker 1: and did your cabaret show. I also did a book
Speaker 1: and did a live show, and I found doing the
Speaker 1: live show very very confronting. M More Theater was my
Speaker 1: first first night, sold out on a Saturday night, and
Speaker 1: I'm there with Rob Carlton, a good maid of mine.
Speaker 1: He's an actor, and I thought it would be sort
Speaker 1: of a sit down, yeah, the Q and A type thing,
Speaker 1: but it was m Moore Theater and I was very
Speaker 1: nervous and Rob told me, he said, this is not
Speaker 1: Q and A. This is live theater. We're going to
Speaker 1: take the audience on the journey. So I had a
Speaker 1: monologue to learn and about forty minutes of stuff and
Speaker 1: had the time at here and there. I was shitting
Speaker 1: myself before I walked out the first night, but I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. It was challenging and it was fun.
Speaker 1: And we toured around the around the country and Rob said,
Speaker 1: one thing that he does and I like the way
Speaker 1: he lives his life. He challenges himself at least once
Speaker 1: a year, does something he's scared of. And I was
Speaker 1: scared of doing that. I'd been a cop for years.
Speaker 1: What am I doing on the stage and then more
Speaker 1: theater on the Saturday night doing a live show? But
Speaker 1: it was fun, challenging and rewarding. Did you find that
Speaker 1: you've done Australian sas the survivor? You went on that
Speaker 1: that would have been challenging. Did you do Dancing with
Speaker 1: the Stars as well?
Speaker 2: I did?
Speaker 1: Yep? Is there right?
Speaker 2: And absolutely loved both of them. Probably loved Dancing with
Speaker 2: the Stars more than sas.
Speaker 1: Right, talk us through the experience, because again that's putting
Speaker 1: yourself out there as you can fail in a big
Speaker 1: way and a very public failure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think I loved sas well. I
Speaker 2: loved I absolutely loved both of them because it gave
Speaker 2: me sort of structure to train, gave me purpose and
Speaker 2: you know, so I quite enjoy the physical, but you know,
Speaker 2: I also really enjoyed the novelty of the new experiences.
Speaker 2: And then says has got the extra layer of the
Speaker 2: the mental and emotional challenge as well. And I, you know,
Speaker 2: I think I have always been very like quite open,
Speaker 2: you know with the public about you know, my well,
Speaker 2: I guess you could call them my mistakes. Well they're
Speaker 2: not really mistakes if you if you do learn from them.
Speaker 2: But you know, the I guess my my character defects,
Speaker 2: for lack of a better term, you know, my warts, which, yeah,
Speaker 2: and I think the reason I've always been quite open
Speaker 2: about that stuff is that I see how the experience
Speaker 2: can benefit others, like by me sharing. Yeah. So you know,
Speaker 2: so I shared some pretty some stuff that I was
Speaker 2: quite ashamed about and stuff that I still struggle with
Speaker 2: in terms of you know, like honesty is you know,
Speaker 2: I feel really ashamed to say it. But you know,
Speaker 2: honesty is not one of my core values and it
Speaker 2: never has been ever since I was a child. I
Speaker 2: I have learnt to that lying is a survival mechanism
Speaker 2: because I because of how I was disciplined, because of
Speaker 2: how I was controlled, and you know, I would get
Speaker 2: punished for doing something like for I would get punished
Speaker 2: for if it was found out that I did something.
Speaker 2: You know, there was no clemency. There was no you weren't.
Speaker 2: You weren't forgiven for like being honest about it. If
Speaker 2: you got found out, you were punished. And so the
Speaker 2: only way to you know, to get away with it
Speaker 2: was not to be honest about it, but was to
Speaker 2: lie and try and get away with it. And that
Speaker 2: is so automatic and it's and it causes a lot
Speaker 2: of problems in my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Matt, you coming out and saying that, and
Speaker 1: it makes you know, I'm seeing here listening, and it
Speaker 1: makes me reflect on my life and different things. I
Speaker 1: think it's powerful that someone like yourself is talking about
Speaker 1: those things and owning that. And yeah, I think it
Speaker 1: helps people understanding where we've all got faults. No one's perfect,
Speaker 1: but where those faults are coming from and why you
Speaker 1: are who you are, so full full credit to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean like awareness is one thing, you know,
Speaker 2: it's actually awareness is usually is is quite often the
Speaker 2: most painful place to be in because it's it's the
Speaker 2: area in between, you know, not having awareness of the behavior,
Speaker 2: so you're you're oblivious to the behavior, which means that
Speaker 2: you're it's not kind of upsetting to you, You're just
Speaker 2: you're kind of I don't know, damage is and chaos
Speaker 2: is occurring around you. You don't know why, but you know
Speaker 2: it's not your fault. But then when like awareness is
Speaker 2: actually a very painful place to be in because then
Speaker 2: then you're aware that like it's actually you know, you're
Speaker 2: the one that's causing the chaos in your life, and
Speaker 2: that it's the stage before action, like when when you know,
Speaker 2: when you cause enough pain to so when the place
Speaker 2: is uncomfortable enough, then you're put in the action to
Speaker 2: actually try and do something about it. So it's not
Speaker 2: just it's not just having the awareness, it's actually about
Speaker 2: trying to put in some action to change it afterwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, I like to think that we all
Speaker 1: evolve and you'll all learn as you grow, and yeah,
Speaker 1: you learn by your mistakes. So you've done the book
Speaker 1: that Dancing with the Stars you also went on only
Speaker 1: fans talk us through that Like that's you know, and
Speaker 1: it's not something that's so surprising these days, like a
Speaker 1: lot of people are doing it. How is that an
Speaker 1: experience for you?
Speaker 2: It's been awesome, Like, you know, there's a I think
Speaker 2: I like to take pictures of myself anyway, and you know,
Speaker 2: I've got lots of fans who want to see the pictures,
Speaker 2: and so if they want to, you know, if they
Speaker 2: want to give me money to see see these pictures,
Speaker 2: then you know, why not. And like, I don't even
Speaker 2: do full frontal nudity on my only fans, Like, you know,
Speaker 2: I think it gets a pretty bad rap. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just, you know, it's just another way for me
Speaker 2: to connect with you know, a bunch of people on
Speaker 2: a different level. You know, I'm pretty I'm pretty open
Speaker 2: and free and easy about you know, myself and my sexuality.
Speaker 2: I don't shame it. I know a lot of other
Speaker 2: people do shame it, which is a shame. And you know,
Speaker 2: you know, to think, the balance I think I've I've
Speaker 2: had to find with it is you know, before I
Speaker 2: actually got into it, was like, I wouldn't want this
Speaker 2: to jeopardize my chances of you know, doing anything in
Speaker 2: the mainstream, And so what could I do and what
Speaker 2: do I feel comfortable with doing and sharing that's not
Speaker 2: going to jeopardize my chance of doing anything in the mainstream.
Speaker 2: And I think you know the mainstream, you know, doing
Speaker 2: pornography I think would be something that would mean that
Speaker 2: I couldn't be mainstream. And so you know, I don't
Speaker 2: do pornography. I don't do you know, full frontal how
Speaker 2: much just you know, send a shared you know, sexy
Speaker 2: pictures and videos that you know wouldn't be considered pornography.
Speaker 1: Well, I think you explained that, explain that well, and
Speaker 1: there should be no embarrassment or shame to it the
Speaker 1: way that way that you've explained it. But it gets
Speaker 1: to react.
Speaker 2: And there should be no there should be no shame
Speaker 2: like for people who do actually share. I mean for me,
Speaker 2: it was you know, and I've got my own hang ups.
Speaker 2: I do have some hang ups around sex, to be honest,
Speaker 2: you know, around my own sexuality like any like, which
Speaker 2: is so bizarre that and that's something that I have
Speaker 2: to keep on checking myself with. I don't shame anybody
Speaker 2: else like I think it's you know, it's it's empower
Speaker 2: I fully support anybody else's you know, who works as
Speaker 2: a sex worker or but or who does sex work.
Speaker 2: But I, you know, for myself, I kind of sit
Speaker 2: back and go, you know, can I could I defend
Speaker 2: this in the name like as you know, being art
Speaker 2: for example, and you know, but all power to other
Speaker 2: people like who do you know do pornography and that
Speaker 2: sort of thing. I fully support them, and I don't
Speaker 2: think that should should preclude them. I don't think that
Speaker 2: should exclude them from being able to have a mainstream career.
Speaker 2: But I know in reality that a lot of other
Speaker 2: people do. And a lot of those other people are
Speaker 2: decision makers or you know, for example, with mainstream you know,
Speaker 2: decision makers have to think about, you know, the talent
Speaker 2: they have having the widest possible appeal, and that you know,
Speaker 2: they they wouldn't want to alienate a whole demographic of people,
Speaker 2: quite conservative people, just because they you know, they have
Speaker 2: one talent that's you know, is a lot more liberal.
Speaker 2: So it's it's unfortunate that that's the way the world is.
Speaker 2: And and actually, you know, an argument could be made
Speaker 2: that the only way to change that would be to
Speaker 2: actually have people you know, to be liberal you know,
Speaker 2: with themselves, and and also can have you know, pioneer
Speaker 2: paved the way to actually have mainstream careers as well,
Speaker 2: and that's the way that a change would be made.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm achieving that, you know, but
Speaker 2: also it would be good.
Speaker 1: Well, I think the way that you've just articulated that
Speaker 1: and explained that. I think people can see where you're
Speaker 1: coming from and no judgment and the fact that you're
Speaker 1: making the comment that people shouldn't be judging others on
Speaker 1: what they do. And what I can say is a
Speaker 1: homicide detective, the amount of motives it's driven by sex
Speaker 1: in one way or another or suppressed or that it's
Speaker 1: not very healthy. It's not very healthy. And I've seen
Speaker 1: people do things and commit crimes. I'm not talking with
Speaker 1: the completely different level when we talk about pedophiles with children,
Speaker 1: that's completely different, but other adult crimes that have been
Speaker 1: driven by sex. The wife, it's been murdered because the
Speaker 1: man has found a new new girlfriend, and yeah, things
Speaker 1: like that. So many times it comes in and quite
Speaker 1: often because they've been suppressing what their actual urges are
Speaker 1: and that leads them to do something that you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think they were necessarily a bad person, but
Speaker 1: they've been lying to themselves and suppressing things and then
Speaker 1: they've gone done something something horrendous. So, yeah, I was
Speaker 1: curious how you were going to answer that, but I
Speaker 1: think you answered it very well, and I don't know
Speaker 1: what they else to say. You've covered the law in
Speaker 1: that your life. Now you're married, Yes, married, talk us
Speaker 1: through that they had the big wedding or.
Speaker 2: We had big ish Well, I don't know. Actually that's
Speaker 2: a lie. It's not wasn't big ish. There was about
Speaker 2: seventy people, which I think was bigger than I expected
Speaker 2: it to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's just got out of hand.
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't have that many friends and family, right,
Speaker 2: and you know it was we did it over in
Speaker 2: We did it in Belgium actually, and so you know,
Speaker 2: I was pros that I actually had, you know, some
Speaker 2: as many family members as I did come over for it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was, it was, it was. It was lovely. We've
Speaker 2: been married for four and a half years. You know,
Speaker 2: we're just like any married couple. We you know, have
Speaker 2: our ups and downs and you know, have to kind
Speaker 2: of work through things as they pop up. And it's yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's pretty unremarkable relationship in terms of you know,
Speaker 2: it's very very normal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that might be what you need at this
Speaker 1: stage in your life. The Olympics that the Paris Olympics
Speaker 1: are you involved in? Do you do you attend the
Speaker 1: Olympics or you go into the Olympics or you watch
Speaker 1: the Olympics. What's it like as a post past Olympian
Speaker 1: Do you have any involvement in it? Is there advice
Speaker 1: that you give athletes competing?
Speaker 2: I literally got back yes today from from the Australian
Speaker 2: Olympic Diving teams training camp. They're doing a pre Olympic
Speaker 2: camp in the UK, so I went and spent two
Speaker 2: days with them. I love the Yeah, I love the Olympics.
Speaker 2: You know, always watch it would always be as involved
Speaker 2: as possible. I've commentated a couple of common common Worth games,
Speaker 2: never managed to commentate the Olympics yet. But this Olympics
Speaker 2: I am doing. I will be in Paris and doing
Speaker 2: a couple of things. Actually, I'll be hosting groups at
Speaker 2: the diving, like spectator groups on behalf of Airbnb. Airbnb
Speaker 2: is one of the Olympic, the IOC partners, and so
Speaker 2: they got a bunch of tickets for different sports and
Speaker 2: so they gave a bunch of tickets away and they
Speaker 2: got some athletes to you know, to host these groups.
Speaker 2: And so I'll be hosting several groups at the diving
Speaker 2: and I will also I've also been working for a
Speaker 2: year and a half with a project called Compete Proud,
Speaker 2: which is aiming to you know, mix sports more diverse
Speaker 2: and inclusive places, you know, particularly for LGBTQ plus athletes.
Speaker 2: But you know, but diversity is an inclusion is it
Speaker 2: works on many levels, you know, for in terms of racism, sexism, ableism,
Speaker 2: you know, all that sort of stuff. So I will
Speaker 2: actually be in Paris working at Pride House as well,
Speaker 2: which is a space that you know, for the last
Speaker 2: you know, since probably two thousand and I think just
Speaker 2: after two thousand and eight. I think it's been a
Speaker 2: common feature of Olympic Games to have a Pride House,
Speaker 2: which is a space for we're fans or athletes or
Speaker 2: support staff for you know, just anybody kind of involved
Speaker 2: in the in the Olympics to have a safe space
Speaker 2: for them. So I will be there doing some doing
Speaker 2: interviews with athletes and being around for meeting greets and
Speaker 2: education sessions and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Fantastic, fantastic. I think we might wrap it up at
Speaker 1: this stage. We in between part one and Part two.
Speaker 1: I was talking to our producer Emily. She'll probably get
Speaker 1: cranky at me for this and just say he's so
Speaker 1: insightful as in we've been talking so I've got to
Speaker 1: say that too, Matt. I like the fact that you
Speaker 1: can look at yourself and learn from life's lessons and
Speaker 1: explain it so so well, and you articulate your emotions
Speaker 1: and all that, and I think by sharing your feelings,
Speaker 1: I honestly believe you're making a difference. So full credit
Speaker 1: to you. And maybe the winning the Olympic gold medal
Speaker 1: is not going to be the highlight of your life,
Speaker 1: and the way that your life is playing out helping
Speaker 1: others is getting you more reward than what you believe
Speaker 1: the Olympic gold might get you.
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, yeah, thank you. It's it's a really
Speaker 2: lovely thing to say. Yeah, And it's you know, it's
Speaker 2: kind of something that I hope for myself. You know
Speaker 2: that the you know that this achievement is not kind
Speaker 2: of the best thing that I ever do, and you know,
Speaker 2: and and actually what I'm trying to do is use
Speaker 2: that as a platform in order to make a real
Speaker 2: difference in the world. And so yeah, that's what I'm
Speaker 2: trying to do. And it's it's that's probably the most
Speaker 2: validating thing you could possibly say to me.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's great. Thank you so much for coming
Speaker 1: on the podcast and making the time. I know you,
Speaker 1: I know you're busy and all the best for the future,
Speaker 1: and I've really enjoyed that chat, so thank you.
Speaker 2: Thanks Gary, I really enjoyed our chat too.
Speaker 1: Cheers. We finally got an Olympic gold medalist. Onto I
Speaker 1: catch Killers and the chat that I had with Matt
Speaker 1: Mitchell I found quite inspiring sad at times when he
Speaker 1: talks about his childhood and the problems that he had
Speaker 1: leading up to achieve Olympic goal. In life after Olympic goals,
Speaker 1: he talks about his drug addiction and a lot of
Speaker 1: other things that I think people will find quite inspiration.
Speaker 1: I certainly did.