1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, staid, 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 10 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 11 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with Olympic 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: champion Matt Mitcham. Now you would think that someone who 16 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: has a drive and skills to be an Olympic champion 17 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: at the age of twenty, life would be pretty easy. 18 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: But as is often the case with our guests that 19 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: we get on my catch killers, sometimes it's not the 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: good things that define a person, but it's other things 21 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: in their life. And if you listen to Part one. 22 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: Matt talked about his upbringing, his childhood and how he 23 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: got to the point where he was selected in the 24 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: Australian Olympic team to compete at the two thousand and 25 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: eight Beijing Olympics, and we left it as Matt was 26 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: just about to take us into the Olympic village. Matt, 27 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: welcome back. 28 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 2: Thank you. 29 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: Talk me through the excitement of competing, the competing at 30 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: the Olympics, your first Olympics. What was the feeling like. 31 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: The Olympics is Yeah, I mean, obviously it's like the 32 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: pinnacle of you know, what you've been working towards. So 33 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: you know, it's everything all of those Olympics that you watch, 34 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 2: you know, as a kid, and everything that you've been 35 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: training for for you know, ten to fifteen years. It's 36 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: kind of happening, and so it's easy to it'll be 37 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: easy to kind of get overwhelmed just by that and 38 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: you know, potentially psych yourself out. And the Olympic village 39 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: is this crazy, bizarre utopia where everything is i mean, 40 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: everything is lush and green and perfect, and everybody is 41 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 2: like tall and beautiful and just like stupidly perfect. And 42 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 2: it's so bizarre because it's then surrounded by these three 43 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 2: meter tall braza wire fences, and they usually build these 44 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: huge villages out in like you know quite you know, 45 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 2: low socioeconomic areas because that's where it's cheapest to buy 46 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: the land. And so it's like you go from like 47 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: this green, perfect, lush utopia to these razor wire fences 48 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 2: and then just just like like poverty on the other 49 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: side of it. It's just it's so bizarre. But you know, 50 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 2: when you know, don't think about that stuff and just 51 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: kind of have a look at, you know, your immediate surroundings, 52 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's uh, I guess it's like a kind 53 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: of a dope feast for the brain. Like is everything's 54 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: just you know, like overload, right, and. 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and there's this athlete, there's that athlete and 56 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: all these all these world stars. The mindset you go 57 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: in there because you went there to win, didn't you. You 58 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: weren't you weren't going to be satisfied with just competing. 59 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: This was the matt I've got to be the best here. 60 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to win. This is that the attitude that 61 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: you went in with. 62 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,399 Speaker 2: Like I had to, I had to kind of put 63 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: those sorts of thoughts aside, Like those sorts of thoughts 64 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: did occur. But you know, diving is one of those 65 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: sports where it's not about like absolute speed or absolute 66 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: strength or absolute endurance, where you know the harder you try, 67 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: the better you're going to get. It's like diving is 68 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: the complete opposite. It's a sport of absolute precision, where 69 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: trying anything other than exactly how much you have practiced 70 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: to try is going to have the adverse effect. And 71 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: so any of these thoughts, like, you know, I definitely 72 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: did have. I knew I would do pretty well because 73 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: I you know, I had won the last international, I'd 74 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: won several of medals throughout the year and then but 75 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 2: they've been getting better and better, and I won gold 76 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 2: in the last international competition before the Olympics, So I 77 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: knew I was doing well and I knew that I 78 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 2: had a potential to win a medal, and you know, 79 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: so I did, and I did two events. I did three. 80 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: Mind of spring board, I mean that was never my 81 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: main event. I came I think sixteenth or something, but 82 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: then and I think that was kind of a nice 83 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: warm up for platform, which was the main event, and 84 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: that was at the very end, and I came second 85 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: in the preliminary round where they cut the fifty eight 86 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: divers down to eighteen. Yeah, so it went China, me, China, 87 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: and then everybody else. And then in the semi final, 88 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: I came second again after the other Chinese divers, so 89 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: they swapped positions, and so you know, I knew, well, 90 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: I guess the pessimist of me. Yeah, well, the pessimist 91 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: in me was kind of like, okay, well, both Chinese 92 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: divers have beaten me here, so you know, I've got 93 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: a really good chance of winning a bronze medal here. 94 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: But again, those sorts of thoughts are quite counterproductive, and 95 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: so you just had to kind of let those go 96 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: every time the thought like that would happen. Yeah, and 97 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 2: then as we got to the final, I don't keep 98 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: track of of what anybody else is doing, and I 99 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: don't keep track of like all I do is have 100 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 2: a look at what scores I get and what total 101 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: score I get. I don't even keep track of kind 102 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 2: of what my progressive like what my cumulative score is 103 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 2: through the competition, because from there I can deduce like 104 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: how close to you know, my you know, how close 105 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: to my PB I'm getting you know that sort of thing, 106 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 2: and and and maybe make some inferences on you know, 107 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: what other people would usually score in total. So you know, 108 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: these are all ways that my brain can try and 109 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: trick me to start thinking in counterproductive ways. So you know, so, yeah, 110 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: I was That's what I was doing. I was just 111 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 2: keeping track of, you know, the scores that I was 112 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: getting from the judges, just to you know, to see 113 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: if that aligned with how it felt. And in the 114 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 2: and I felt like I was. I was diving well, 115 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: and you know, I saved my highest degree of difficulty 116 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: dive for the for the end, you know, to have 117 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 2: a really big finisher. So that was the hardest dive 118 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 2: in the Olympics. And and I'd done it really well 119 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: in the semi final and scored over one hundred points, 120 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: which is like like it's unhurt, Like it's extremely rare 121 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: to score over one hundred points on on any dive. 122 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: And so in the in the stairwell just before my 123 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: last dive that you know, there was a Chinese diver 124 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: before me, and when he did his dive, I heard 125 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: the whole crowd go ooh. And I didn't know as 126 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: in good or as in bad. I didn't know, and 127 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: I didn't want to know. So I blocked my ears 128 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: and went lah la la la lah as they were 129 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: as the judges were reading out the scores, because I 130 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: didn't want that to impact, you know, how I was 131 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: about to do my dive, and I definitely had the 132 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: thought in the stairwell that you know, if my name 133 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: comes up on top of the leaderboard after my dive, 134 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: that means that I've got an Olympic silver medal, because 135 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 2: I just assumed that the Chinese diver after me was 136 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: was going to win, right, you know, But if I 137 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: did get a one after my score, because you dive 138 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: in reverse order, so because I came second in the 139 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: semi final, I was diving second last, So if I 140 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 2: got if I came first after my dive, that means 141 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: I've got an Olympic silver Maryland. But I had to 142 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: let that go. And you know, so I've seen like 143 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: footage I've seen of it. You know, as focused as 144 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: I thought I was, I was still kind of, you know, 145 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: acutely aware that there were there were cameras, there were 146 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: there were people watching. You know, I'm walking to the 147 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: end doing my hair. You're want to look your best exactly. 148 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: But you know, but I don't remember anything from from 149 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: you know, when I once I reached the end of 150 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 2: the platform, it was like, you know, one of those 151 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: textbook zone like flow state moments that. 152 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: Would have to be the zone that you hope to achieve. 153 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: Get into that with no thoughts are out, you're just 154 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: in the zone. Literally, Yeah, you talk. It was your 155 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: most difficult dive. Explain in Layman's terms what the dive involves, 156 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: so it confuses to confuse us. 157 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: All it's a backward facing dive, and it's got two 158 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: and a half somersaults in it and two and a 159 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: half full twists in it. So what's that three sixty 160 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: plus three sixty seven twenty plus another one eighty is like, 161 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: I don't know, a thousand or something. I didn't go 162 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 2: to school for math, But yeah, that's it's a lot 163 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 2: of twists and a lot of somersaults. So two and 164 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 2: a half somersaults, two and a half twists, and it 165 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: was the highest degree of difficulty dive in the Olympics 166 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: at the time. And yeah, so I and I knew 167 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: it was a good scorer because I'd done it quite 168 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: well in well. 169 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: And it is true, is the highest score in the 170 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: Olympic history for that at that time. 171 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, So after I did the dive, I you know 172 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: like it felt kind of it felt good, but you know, 173 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 2: like it I felt like it could have maybe gone 174 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 2: a hair one way or the other. And when the 175 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: crowd was when I surfirst after the dive and the 176 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: crowd was just going absolutely ballistic in the water cube, 177 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: I knew that I had done a really good dive 178 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: and and so I was like thanking the crowd, which 179 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: is customary to do in China. And then the scores 180 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 2: came up ten ten nine and a half, ten ten 181 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: nine and a half, nine and a half, and there 182 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 2: was a there was a one next to it. That's 183 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: all I saw, was just the one next to my name, 184 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 2: and I lost it, thinking that like I had an 185 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: Olympic silver medal. And and you know, then we I 186 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: went to the side of the pool, like people were 187 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 2: congratulating me already just for you know, doing the good dive. 188 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: We all stopped to watch the last diver of the competition, 189 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 2: the Chinese diver, who was actually doing the same dive 190 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 2: as me, and he bombed it like a huge splash, 191 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 2: like just completely surprised everybody, and you know, it didn't 192 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 2: even meddle, and so I stayed up on top, and 193 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 2: you know, the whole diving community just engulfed me, which 194 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 2: was a really beautiful moment, like everyone just standing there 195 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: waiting patiently for their turn to congratulate me. It was 196 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: really really lovely moment. And I had no idea at 197 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: the time, Like all I know, all I knew was that, 198 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 2: you know, I got the gold medal. I had no 199 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: idea that it was an Olympic record of the highest 200 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: scoring dive in Olympic history. I had no idea that 201 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: I'd set the Olympic record already for the highest scoring 202 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 2: dive in Olympic history in the semi final. So I 203 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: broke my own Olympic record. I had the two highest 204 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: scoring dives in Olympic history for quite a number of years. 205 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: Do you like to do things in a big way, 206 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: don't you? 207 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 2: Pretty much? And what I also didn't know was that 208 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: in doing that, in coming out before Beijing, it made 209 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 2: me the first openly gay, at least male, but the 210 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 2: first openly g that I can find Olympic gold medalist 211 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 2: in history. 212 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: Well, at twenty, you do things in a big way. 213 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: Don't you like when you shine, you shine very bright. 214 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: I'm just I've got a smile on my face because 215 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: I just think you've taken this through your journey, and 216 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: I just think it must be overwhelming, the euphoria or 217 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: the relief or just what's the feelings that you get 218 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: that you've achieved something you set out to achieve. Relief 219 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: and such a grand scale. 220 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: It was relief. I like literally the the feeling that 221 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: I remember when stepping onto the podium, it was just 222 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: relief that like it had all been worth it. Yeah. Yeah, 223 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: basically just that it had been worth it, you know, 224 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: going through those years of sticking with it when I 225 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: didn't you know, when I wasn't loving it coming back. 226 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: You know, I was so poor when I came back 227 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: for that fifteen months, like because I I had no funding, 228 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: because I hadn't achieved anything yet, and so you know, 229 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: I was working in this office for five hours a day, 230 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: five days a week, like I was. In order to 231 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: fit everything into the day, I was always running. I 232 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: was running to the train station. I was running from 233 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 2: the train station to the pool. I was running from 234 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: the pool back to the train station. I was running 235 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: from the train station to the work office and then 236 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: back up to like you know, always running, always falling 237 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: asleep on trains. All I could really afford was basically, 238 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: like you know, a can of tuna and two minute 239 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 2: noodles for lunch every day, and maybe a tin of 240 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: sweet corn if it was a particularly good week for 241 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 2: me financially, and then the rest was just like you know, 242 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 2: basically baked beans on toast for dinner, and like that's 243 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 2: literally what I was subsisting on because I was just I'm. 244 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: Just thinking of a sponsorship deal here for if anything, 245 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: they knew in the lead up, look that it's an 246 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: incredible story and I can only imagine and it sounds 247 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: like your life. And I've had those times in my 248 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: life where you're five minutes behind everywhere you should be 249 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: and it's just you're playing catch up. But your event 250 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: at what stage in the Olympics was it a ladder 251 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: or in the middle of the Olympics. 252 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: Like the two weeks it was the last day. 253 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: Oh that's a shame, because I thought you might have 254 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: given us stories about how you partied out after you 255 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: one year gold and enjoy yourself, but say you would 256 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: have had to stay focused the whole whole time. 257 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: And I because I was so like paranoid about you know, 258 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 2: doing anything that was going to jeopardize, you know, giving 259 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: me the best chance. I did not. Like I stayed 260 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: in my room for whenever I wasn't in the dining 261 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 2: hall or at the pool, I was just in my 262 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: room by myself, reading, you know, trying not to tie 263 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 2: myself out. So I mean, to be fair, I was 264 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: there to do a job exactly. But you know, but 265 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 2: the Olympics do certainly put on a lot of stuff 266 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: to you know, to make it an awesome experience for 267 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 2: the athletes as well. I just didn't participate it. 268 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: Talk to us about stand in on the diacet at 269 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: the gold medal ceremony, how did you feel? And the 270 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: Australian national anthem boone played and the gold medal place 271 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: around your neck? 272 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: There are a couple of you know, like I guess 273 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: I was a little bit shell shocked. To be honest, 274 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 2: I you know, the like I said, the only the 275 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: only feeling I could actually recognize was relief. But I sang. 276 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 2: I sang the national anthem loudly and proudly, and yeah 277 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: I managed. I don't know where I got that flag 278 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: from but someone gave me Australian flag and you know, 279 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: around the pool deck with my astranged flag. I ran 280 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 2: up to the stands and gave my partner at the 281 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: time just a kiss on the cheek. Actually, I think 282 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: my mother was Yeah, she was there as well. And 283 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: then yeah, I went through and then it was just 284 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: like media and interviews for a couple of hours after that, 285 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: media in the media zone in the pool, and then 286 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: they took me to non rights holders media outside the pool, 287 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 2: and I think I got back to the village about 288 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: must have been like two or three, and then had 289 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: to be up again at five to start then doing 290 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: the morning breakfast TV breakfast programs back in Australia. So yeah, 291 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: it was crazy chaos chaos. 292 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: Did that change you as a person at that point 293 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: in time? Did you? And you're only twenty and when 294 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: you look back at twenty, how NIGHI even ignorant stupid 295 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: you are and you've got all that thrust upon you. Yeah, 296 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: how did it did it change? 297 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? It made me a monster? I mean I certainly 298 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 2: did enjoy the validation for sure. You know this, Yeah, 299 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 2: the gold medal has this this magical property of making 300 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: you significantly more interesting and better looking and funnier, like 301 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 2: you know, it's it's just magic. But I think eventually 302 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: I started to feel like people only cared about the medal, 303 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: like I was really just a bust to display the medal, 304 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 2: to wear the medal. I still I had no no 305 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: inherent value. It was the gold medal was the only 306 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 2: thing that had value because that's what people were interested in. So, 307 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 2: you know, the yeah, the validation that came with winning 308 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 2: Olympic gold medal didn't last for very long. And then 309 00:17:54,880 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: for some reason, at some stage after getting back from Beijing, 310 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 2: I had to look at the world rankings and discovered 311 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 2: that I was actually number two in the world because 312 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: it's based off total total points and one of the 313 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 2: Chinese divers had one more events earlier in the year 314 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: than I had and so had to crud more total points. 315 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 2: And so here I am. You know, I'm still not 316 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: the best in the world. And you know, I think 317 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: it had two effects. One of them was I used 318 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 2: that as an impetus to set a new goal to become, 319 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: you know, to get that number one world ranking, and 320 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 2: I did. I got it. In twenty ten, I was 321 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 2: ranked number one in the world, but it also, I 322 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: guess had this huge knock to it just started a 323 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: spiral for me. I think, you know, like still not 324 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: being the best in the world, like you know, I 325 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,239 Speaker 2: guess all I can call it is like I had 326 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 2: a relapse in my depression which had been in remission 327 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 2: for a couple of years since I moved to Sydney 328 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 2: and had this wonderful inclusive training environment and was happy diving. 329 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: You know, I had some relief from that depression which 330 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 2: I had had since I was fourteen, but it came 331 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 2: back with a vengeance after beaching. 332 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 1: Is there like the post's Olympic let down after it, 333 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: and especially when you've achieved the gold medal, is there 334 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: the highs and this has been the aim I've achieved it, 335 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: you found another gold to achieve? Well, I want to 336 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: be number one. The gold medal wasn't enough, so that 337 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: drove you a little bit. But there and I see 338 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: a lot of athletes, not just Olympic athletes but footballers 339 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: and all that that they've left what's driven them the purpose. 340 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: They've won their Grand Final, they've won the World Cup 341 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: or done something, and then their life saw the spirals 342 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: out of the control. I can understand it because I 343 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: can understand being focused and driven and then you've achieved 344 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: it and then ah, the world hasn't changed for me. 345 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: It's I'm still the same person. 346 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. They call it like a yeah, an 347 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 2: Olympic come down, and I think it's really it's it's 348 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: it's a very appropriate analogy to use that the terminology 349 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 2: that they use, like for for a drug come down, 350 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 2: because you know, the Olympics is so it's such an 351 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 2: intense experience, like in terms of like it's an intense 352 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 2: sensory experience where there's so much going on all the time, 353 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 2: and there's so much excitement you know, of the competition 354 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 2: and you know, particularly if you know you have a 355 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: really good competition, then there's even more excitement. So it's like, 356 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: you know, you're just being flooded with dopamine and serotonin 357 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 2: and are adrenaline like all the time, constantly for you know, 358 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 2: for two weeks, and so of course you're going to 359 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: be depleted when you like not even just not even 360 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: just like you know, this the void of like you know, 361 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 2: having this amazing experience that you've been working towards for 362 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 2: a very long time and then you know it being 363 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 2: over but even just chemically in your body, you're going 364 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 2: to be so depleted and so you know it, I 365 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: feel like it's a really appropriate analogy that and it's 366 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 2: it's almost a ubiquitous kind of a universal experience of 367 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 2: Olympians or you know, not even just Olympians, but like 368 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 2: you know, like you said, maybe after a premiership or 369 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 2: like a Grand final or whatever, that an athlete would 370 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 2: feel that that that flat afterwards. And you know, and 371 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: I think I did feel it. I mean I don't 372 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 2: remember it being that horrific, but at the same time, 373 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 2: I have seen it happen so many times with so 374 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 2: many other athletes, like particularly, I need to expect it 375 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 2: more when I did eventually retire from sport, because you know, 376 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 2: you don't have that that purpose anymore. You don't have, 377 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 2: you know, something that you don't have the structure anymore 378 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 2: of something that you filled, you know, five hours a 379 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: day with every day you know that you've got you've 380 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: got five hours a day to an extra five hours 381 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 2: a day to fill with something that's not just you 382 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 2: sitting there with your thoughts going what like what am I? 383 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 2: Who am I now? Like? What is my purpose? Like 384 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 2: you know, if I don't have this thing that my 385 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 2: identity has been so wrapped up with if I'm not 386 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 2: doing that thing anymore, and that thing that that brought 387 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: me so much validation and you know, and gave me 388 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 2: some esteem in the world, like who am I'm? What 389 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 2: am I doing? Like? Just being left alone with your 390 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 2: thoughts for an extra five hours a day which you 391 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 2: didn't aren't used to, can be a pretty dangerous place. 392 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 2: And so no surprise, there's no surprise that, like you 393 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 2: see so many athletes, I either turned to I guess 394 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 2: probably alcohol to number feelings or to drugs to get 395 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 2: potentially replicate replicate the feelings. 396 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, when you came back as the gold medalist 397 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 1: and you continued in diving and you achieve your ultimate 398 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: goal have been the world number one, were you financially supported? 399 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: Like I've heard people say, gold medals don't don't set 400 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: you up for life? Was it? Yeah, you didn't have 401 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: to work as an admin assistant for five hours a 402 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: day and eat baked beans and run and catch a train. 403 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: Did the life change for you in that regards? In 404 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: that I don't know Australian Institute, the sport or sponsorship 405 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: or what happened there. 406 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 2: Yes, so I didn't have to work as an admin 407 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: assistant anymore, which was amazing. I could support myself by 408 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 2: doing the diving just because you know, I was staying 409 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: in the top three in the world for or the 410 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 2: you know, for the next couple of years, which meant 411 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 2: that I was getting access to you know, like training grants. 412 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: But that was you know, that was basically how I 413 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: was supporting himself. And I was doing public speaking every 414 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: now and then, which brought in a little bit extra 415 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: But I certainly wasn't raking in endorsement dollars, which is 416 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 2: a shame, but you know, but I mean, there's nothing 417 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: I could do with that. But you know, I'm just 418 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 2: grateful that, you know, I could support myself and just 419 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 2: focus on the sport for a few years. 420 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: When you made the London Olympics, and I read in 421 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: an interview or heard you talk about that, and you 422 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: said that you felt a little bit more pressure on 423 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: yourself going into the London Olympics. Quite ironically, after and 424 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: you didn't medal in the London Olympics, it validated your 425 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: gold medal that you won at the Beijing Olympics. There 426 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: was a whole lot of mixed, mixed thoughts. Talk me 427 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: through the London Olympics. Why you felt the pressure and 428 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: why even though you didn't achieve what you want to do, 429 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: achieve at the London Olympics, that validated what you did 430 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: at the Beijing Olympics. 431 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: So I had well, basically had a rock bottom, you know, 432 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 2: in terms of my depression and how I was kind 433 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 2: of not coping with that and how I was medicating 434 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 2: with drugs and just and not being able to control it. 435 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: Really, Matt, sorry, can I just interrupt you there for 436 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: a sec now that you got the profile, did you 437 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: and I know when I spoke to Tom Carroll, the 438 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: two times World surfing champion, when he was using drugs, 439 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: he felt pressure and responsibility because he was put up 440 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: there on the pedestal and it was a bigger fall. 441 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,479 Speaker 1: Like if you would have been the front page if 442 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: you were caught, yeah, with drugs. Did you feel the 443 00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: pressure of that as well? 444 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,479 Speaker 2: For sure? Like for sure I felt the pressure of Well, 445 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 2: I wanted to be a good role model, you know, 446 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 2: because there are enough bad role models in the world. 447 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 2: I didn't feel like the world needed another one. But 448 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,959 Speaker 2: I also had a lot of shame about how I 449 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 2: was feeling because it felt so unjustified, like I'm an 450 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: Olympic champion. What have I got to be depressed about? Like, 451 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 2: you know, and shaming myself for feeling shame about feeling 452 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 2: bad about feeling bad doesn't make you feel less bad. 453 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 2: It just kind of makes you feel more bad. 454 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: And so it makes sense. 455 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 2: So I, you know, it was so so just so 456 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 2: desperate to change the way I felt, and so and 457 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: but so ashamed of how I was feeling that I 458 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 2: felt even less able to seek help for it. And 459 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: so I just went back to the last sort of 460 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 2: those last not coping mechanisms that I'd used as a 461 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: teenager to change the way I felt, which was crystal meth. 462 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 2: And you know, and then there's so much taboo and 463 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 2: shame around that that that I guess perpetuated the secrecy 464 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 2: of it. And I wasn't doing it to enhance my 465 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: performance obviously, so and you know, there was drug testing 466 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 2: at competitions, and so I would have to detox before 467 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 2: every competition, and that detox before every competition was so horrible, 468 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 2: Like it was just it was so horrific that I 469 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 2: would promise myself with every single cell in my body 470 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 2: that I wasn't going to use drugs again when I 471 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 2: got back from that competition, and every single time, I 472 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 2: couldn't keep that promise to myself. And you know, not 473 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: being able to keep a promise to yourself that you 474 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 2: have made like with absolute conviction and then to fail 475 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: at that, it kind of tears yourself as to him 476 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: in half, like again and again again, and you just 477 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 2: feel just completely powerless and helpless. And you know, it 478 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 2: took me six months of me trying to control it 479 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 2: by myself for me to just I had no pride 480 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 2: left to swallow. So that's when I finally reached out 481 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 2: for help, which was just such an absolute last resort 482 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 2: because you know, I couldn't I couldn't let anybody find 483 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 2: out about what I was doing, but I just had to. 484 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: I just had to take the risk and take myself 485 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: off to rehab. And so you know, it's you know, 486 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 2: that's when the journey of like you know, mental health 487 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: and and all that started for me. And you know, 488 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 2: I was also dealing with injuries, and you know, I 489 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 2: had some stress fractures in my spine and then I 490 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 2: had some abdominal tears which I kept on retearing because 491 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 2: there was so much pressure to get ready for the 492 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 2: next qualifying competition that I would you know, I would 493 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: tear it again and again and again. And you know, 494 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 2: so I was going into London like woefully underprepared, but 495 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 2: I was still the best qualified in Australia to represent 496 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: the country. And you know, so this expectation for me 497 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 2: to defend my Olympic title was kind of really counterproductive 498 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: for me because you know, when it's framed that way, 499 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 2: to defend your Olympic title, anything other than a winners 500 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 2: a failure. Like even if I had won a silver medal, 501 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have defended my Olympic title. So even a 502 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: silver medal would have been a failure, which is you know, 503 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 2: it was a high bar that was. It was yeah, 504 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 2: and and quite unhelpful, and so you know, I just 505 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 2: had to kind of reframe that and go, you know what, like, 506 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 2: I know, I'm not going to defend my Olympic title, 507 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: but I am still the best person to represent the 508 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 2: country at this period of time, and so I just 509 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 2: kind of had to go based on that and go 510 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 2: knowing that I was, that I was trying my best, 511 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 2: and that I wasn't necessarily going to do my best, 512 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 2: and and I didn't. I didn't do my best. I came, 513 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: you know, I missed out on making the final by 514 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: one place, and I was so disappointed, but you know, 515 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 2: again had to kind of turn that around and go, no, 516 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: I didn't do my best, but I did try my best. 517 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 2: So they like, could I have done any more in 518 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 2: the lead up to London, No, I probably should have 519 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 2: done much less to have prevented lots of re injuries, 520 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 2: but you know, I definitely try my best, and so 521 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: I have to be happy with that. And you know, 522 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: so I came back to the pool to watch the 523 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 2: finals that I should have been in that I've always 524 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 2: been in before, Like it was such a weird position 525 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 2: to be watching the finals for the first time, and 526 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,479 Speaker 2: it was such an unusual experience, and I was so 527 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: proud of the boys who were diving in the final, 528 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 2: and I've never experienced that before and that pride. I 529 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 2: was able to kind of turn around and feel it 530 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 2: for myself because I'm usually in that position. And that 531 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: was then like after it once I did that and recognized, 532 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: you know that I had pride for myself for what 533 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 2: I do and my achievements. That was then I realized 534 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 2: the first time I actually appreciated that gold medal that 535 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 2: I'd won in Beijing. That was the first time I 536 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 2: didn't feel like that when in Beijing was a fluke 537 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 2: and so you know, yeah, I didn't. I came away 538 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 2: from London not with a medal, but with something that 539 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 2: was so much more valuable because it meant that I, 540 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 2: for the first time, was actually able to appreciate the 541 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: gold medal that I did have. 542 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: Well, just so why you're talking about there's a sense 543 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: of zen and calmness and peace lead up to it, 544 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: your striving, striving. Then it appears to be the first 545 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: time you've sat there and gone, hey, yes, I did 546 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: something worthwhile and I should be proud of it. 547 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: It was a huge It was a huge mental and 548 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 2: emotional win for me that that realization. So yeah, again, 549 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 2: like that, I ended up leaving London with something far 550 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 2: more valuable than what I left Beijing with. 551 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: Amazing, isn't the mental health journey and the drug addiction. 552 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: Where are you at with all all that? Now? 553 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 2: I'm eight and a half years clean and sober, Like 554 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 2: I haven't had anything stronger than a panadole or an 555 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 2: eurofin in eight and a half years. I even I 556 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 2: even raw dogged a minor wrist operation. Yeah, like I 557 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 2: just you know, because I didn't want to. I just yeah, 558 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 2: I think so, So that was that was that was 559 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 2: pretty difficult. But then again, you know, paracetamoli is it's 560 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: actually you know, very effective, you know, if you if 561 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 2: you use it kind of as prescribed, it's actually very 562 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 2: very effective and helping with pain. But yeah, so I 563 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 2: had tendons cells harvested from my wrist in order for 564 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 2: them to be grown up in a in a peach tradition, 565 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: then reinjected into a separate tend and tear and yeah, 566 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 2: that that was That was quite an experience. But because 567 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 2: I was already in recovery, then you know, that was 568 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 2: a choice that I made and I got through it, 569 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 2: and you know, so that's that's where I am in 570 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: terms of my you know, drug and alcohol journey is 571 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 2: being you know nearly yeah, nearly nine years clean and sober. 572 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 2: And then you know that like I will kind of 573 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 2: admit that, you know, I've been a lot more. I 574 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 2: was a lot more proactive, you know, kind of earlier 575 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: on in my recovery about my mental health and you know, 576 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 2: and it really showed, like my mental health was was 577 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 2: much better. You know, when I do when I am struggling, 578 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 2: I know, it's always because I'm not putting in any action, 579 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 2: like I'm not putting any any maintenance. I'm not, uh, 580 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 2: you know, I'm not kind of reflecting on a daily 581 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 2: basis about you know, about the goods and bads of 582 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 2: the day. And you know, reflection is just so important 583 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 2: in order to you know, to to keep on growing 584 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 2: and to prevent you know, slippery habits from from creeping 585 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 2: back in or you know, or to you know, just 586 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 2: just to give yourself a was a health check too, 587 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 2: to see you know, where some unhealthy thoughts and feelings 588 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 2: and patterns are starting to you know, to to root themselves. 589 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 2: So you know, I certainly have struggles like extremely I've 590 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 2: got quite severe ADHD and so I you know, I've 591 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 2: been even though I've been medicated for that for nearly 592 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: fifteen years, you know, it's I struggle with the symptoms 593 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 2: of that. I've been struggling with the symptoms of that 594 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 2: more in the past eighteen months than I have through 595 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 2: my entire life. And you know, there's other stuff that 596 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 2: I kind of you know that creep in or you know, 597 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 2: I might be trying to replace my addiction with like 598 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 2: maybe other behaviors like you know, acting out sexually or 599 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 2: or you know, that's probably the where the biggest that's 600 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 2: that's probably where I would struggle with most. And so 601 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 2: it's a it's a constant process. 602 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: You've talked in previous interviews about a gratitude list that 603 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: you put forward. Is that something you keep in place, 604 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: Is that something that you try and focus on, and 605 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: then just explain what you got from compiling a gratitude 606 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: list each day. 607 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 2: A gratitude list. Gratitude lists are probably the you know, 608 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 2: the best maintenance tool for me. And and you know, 609 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 2: and I'm always I'm always doing best in life mentally 610 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 2: when I am doing that practice, and you know, when 611 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 2: I am strugg it's usually when that practice has dropped off. 612 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 2: And it works in a couple of ways, you know, 613 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 2: I think first of all, it it kind of it 614 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 2: changes your frame of mind and the way that you 615 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 2: interact with the world in that when you start off 616 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 2: looking for things that you're grateful for, you kind of 617 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 2: stop looking for, you know, evidence that the world is 618 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 2: conspiring against you, and so you know. And the other 619 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 2: thing is like I've I've because of my history of 620 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:39,439 Speaker 2: mental ill health, I have a fear of falling into 621 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 2: depression again, you know, because it just feels like this big, scary, 622 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 2: like black emptiness, and you know, and by doing this 623 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 2: gratitude list, I don't have to fear, you know, this 624 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 2: the black emptiness, because it's not going to be empty. 625 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 2: Like if I do sort of fall into into depression, 626 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 2: if I've thought of three things that I'm grateful for 627 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 2: just that morning, I'll have those three things in my 628 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 2: you know, in my big black hole with me, so 629 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 2: I won't feel so empty. And then you just don't 630 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 2: you don't have the fear of it anymore because and 631 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 2: it doesn't feel so so bad and so scary, so 632 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 2: and then you know, of course it's it. What I 633 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 2: used to do with the gratitude lists as well, which 634 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: I haven't haven't done for quite a long time, is 635 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 2: I used to. Yeah, it's it's not for everyone, but 636 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 2: it was perfect for me at the time. Was to 637 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 2: make a little artwork out of each gratitude list, so 638 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 2: literally just three things, but like do it in calligraphy 639 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 2: or you know, or or maybe you know, take a 640 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 2: photo of it and put some effects on it or whatever. 641 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 2: But just that creative process was you know, it was 642 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 2: quite meditative and quite mindful as well, and so you know, 643 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 2: it just it worked on so many different levels. But 644 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 2: I think the thing that was, you know, just at 645 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 2: the topmost level, it just, you know, you foster an 646 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 2: attitude of gratitude, You stop looking for evidence that the 647 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 2: worlds worrying against you. 648 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: It makes sense. But to me my observations and listening 649 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,760 Speaker 1: to your talk and having this conversation, you've set yourself 650 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: up with some good tools, and you understand that that 651 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: black hole's out there, that you could fall into it, 652 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: but you've got tools to protect yourself from it. I 653 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: got through years in homicide, and I don't think I 654 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: suffered from it, but I knew when I was spiraling 655 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: out of control. And I got into years ago meditation 656 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: and the thing called jigun, which is like a moving 657 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: form of meditation. And when I first started doing that, 658 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: people thinking, oh, this is a bit weird, what's this 659 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: cop doing turning up here. I didn't know why I 660 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: was so driven to do it. I was doing hard training, 661 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: but I was doing this soft training as well. I 662 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: don't do it every day now. But it's there in 663 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: like a toolbox that if I'm feel myself spiraling out 664 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: of control, I can just okay, I need to check myself. 665 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: I understand that I'm not looking at things properly, and 666 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: that's that works for me. It might work for you 667 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: different things. You just got to find that way to 668 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: deal with things. I always know when I'm in a 669 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: bad situation when I walk out in the street or 670 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: through the city and every single person I pass annoys me, 671 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: like someone doesn't step out of the way. This that 672 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, that those ten people in a row 673 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 1: can't be wrong. Maybe it's the way I'm looking at 674 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: the world at the moment. So yeah, just having those 675 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: things in your back pocket that you can acknowledge it 676 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: and deal with it. I think it's good. And seeing 677 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: someone like you talk about it, someone that we look 678 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: at you. You're a gold medalist. What have you got 679 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: to complain about? You can strive, you can achieve, and 680 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 1: to be so open, I think that's where it's powerful. 681 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: The message that you're delivering. Let's talk about life posts 682 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: the athlete, and I think you said at some point 683 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: in time, you've got a job and you thought, actually 684 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 1: this is I thought it. We'd be boring. But it's 685 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,439 Speaker 1: quite good getting a salary coming in and just going 686 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: to work each day and quite fulfilling. Talk us through 687 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 1: that transitional period where you've gone from being this elite 688 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: athlete to ah, I'm just working like everyone else. 689 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I it was. I'm not gonna lie it was. 690 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 2: It was a kind of a humbling process, I think too, 691 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,439 Speaker 2: kind of go from you know, for the first couple 692 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 2: of years after I retired, a lot of my income 693 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 2: was still coming from having a name that was recognizable. 694 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 2: You know, like I read a book in twenty twelve 695 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 2: turned into a stage show where I spoke a lot 696 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 2: about you know, mental health and and that sort of thing. 697 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 2: And you know, that show did really really well. There 698 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 2: was a follow on show and you know and speaking engagements. 699 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 2: And then I moved to the UK and I tried 700 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 2: to do sort of similar stuff. But my name didn't 701 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 2: have any didn't carry the world. There's no currency, no 702 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 2: no capital, not recognizable in any way, and therefore didn't 703 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 2: open any opportunities. And so you know, that's when I 704 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 2: realized that I, yeah, I couldn't I couldn't just rely 705 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 2: on my name anymore to provide me opportunities, and so 706 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 2: you know, I had to be like a normal person again. 707 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 2: And and actually it was you know, while initially it 708 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 2: was a very humbling, very difficult pill to swallow, because 709 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 2: you know, all I've ever wanted since I was a 710 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 2: child was to be special, because you know, I'm just 711 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 2: so you know, even today, even though I recognize it, 712 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 2: I do have a tendency to kind of, you know, 713 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 2: start creeping towards you know, leaning more into external esteem 714 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 2: every now and then. But yeah, it was, it was 715 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 2: a humbling pill, and but actually I found it. I 716 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,959 Speaker 2: found it to be really lovely. You know, the because 717 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,399 Speaker 2: I go ever since I've been a child, I've had 718 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 2: a lot of anxiety. And one of the areas that 719 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 2: anxiety pops up in is financial anxiety. I think it's 720 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 2: because I've never grown up in a house that has 721 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:11,240 Speaker 2: been owned. 722 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: I can always be where that's coming from. 723 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,359 Speaker 2: Then there's always this, and there was always like there 724 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 2: was always a shortage of money, like we I never 725 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 2: I never went on a holiday as a child, like 726 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 2: you know how you you know, your family go on 727 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 2: like I don't know, camping holidays, caravan holidays or you 728 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 2: know that I never like that never happened. I never 729 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 2: went on holidays and I didn't go on I missed 730 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 2: it on a lot of school like field trips as well, 731 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 2: which I just put down to like, you know, oh, 732 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 2: I'm doing sport like I wouldn't have time to do 733 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 2: that anyway. But there was definitely, you know, and I 734 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 2: lived as a five year old. When I was five, 735 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 2: we lived without any electricity for six months. It's tough 736 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 2: just because because you know, Mum, you know, kind of 737 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 2: rightly in a way, refused to pay an extra fee 738 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 2: to the power company, because the reason why we had 739 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 2: to pay the extra fee in the first place was 740 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 2: because she was so far behind on bills. But you know, 741 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 2: so I think the not growing up in a house 742 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 2: that we ever owned and moving around a fair bit, 743 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 2: I think it had this impact of me feeling this 744 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,280 Speaker 2: need for safety and security and and this financial anxiety 745 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 2: and and so it's really long way to go about 746 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,320 Speaker 2: saying that, you know, all of the income that I 747 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 2: had up until that point, you know, with the cabaret 748 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,320 Speaker 2: show or you know, speaking engagements and stuff, they're all 749 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 2: sporadic and unpredictable and inconsistent forms of income. And I 750 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 2: was getting myself into, you know, some some debt, so, 751 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 2: you know, actually having consistent, regular income. It was really 752 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 2: nice to not have to stress about where the next 753 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:07,959 Speaker 2: money was coming from. 754 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: It makes a lot of sense. I'm interested in some 755 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 1: of the things that you've done post career, and you 756 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: talked about the cabaret show on You did a book 757 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: and did your cabaret show. I also did a book 758 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: and did a live show, and I found doing the 759 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: live show very very confronting. M More Theater was my 760 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,919 Speaker 1: first first night, sold out on a Saturday night, and 761 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,439 Speaker 1: I'm there with Rob Carlton, a good maid of mine. 762 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: He's an actor, and I thought it would be sort 763 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,239 Speaker 1: of a sit down, yeah, the Q and A type thing, 764 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: but it was m Moore Theater and I was very 765 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: nervous and Rob told me, he said, this is not 766 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: Q and A. This is live theater. We're going to 767 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 1: take the audience on the journey. So I had a 768 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: monologue to learn and about forty minutes of stuff and 769 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 1: had the time at here and there. I was shitting 770 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,359 Speaker 1: myself before I walked out the first night, but I 771 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. It was challenging and it was fun. 772 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,399 Speaker 1: And we toured around the around the country and Rob said, 773 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: one thing that he does and I like the way 774 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: he lives his life. He challenges himself at least once 775 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: a year, does something he's scared of. And I was 776 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: scared of doing that. I'd been a cop for years. 777 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,359 Speaker 1: What am I doing on the stage and then more 778 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: theater on the Saturday night doing a live show? But 779 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: it was fun, challenging and rewarding. Did you find that 780 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: you've done Australian sas the survivor? You went on that 781 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 1: that would have been challenging. Did you do Dancing with 782 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 1: the Stars as well? 783 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 2: I did? 784 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 1: Yep? Is there right? 785 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 2: And absolutely loved both of them. Probably loved Dancing with 786 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 2: the Stars more than sas. 787 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: Right, talk us through the experience, because again that's putting 788 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: yourself out there as you can fail in a big 789 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:46,800 Speaker 1: way and a very public failure. 790 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think I loved sas well. I 791 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 2: loved I absolutely loved both of them because it gave 792 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,840 Speaker 2: me sort of structure to train, gave me purpose and 793 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 2: you know, so I quite enjoy the physical, but you know, 794 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 2: I also really enjoyed the novelty of the new experiences. 795 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 2: And then says has got the extra layer of the 796 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:18,719 Speaker 2: the mental and emotional challenge as well. And I, you know, 797 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 2: I think I have always been very like quite open, 798 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 2: you know with the public about you know, my well, 799 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:37,239 Speaker 2: I guess you could call them my mistakes. Well they're 800 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 2: not really mistakes if you if you do learn from them. 801 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 2: But you know, the I guess my my character defects, 802 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:51,439 Speaker 2: for lack of a better term, you know, my warts, which, yeah, 803 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 2: and I think the reason I've always been quite open 804 00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 2: about that stuff is that I see how the experience 805 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:07,840 Speaker 2: can benefit others, like by me sharing. Yeah. So you know, 806 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 2: so I shared some pretty some stuff that I was 807 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,759 Speaker 2: quite ashamed about and stuff that I still struggle with 808 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 2: in terms of you know, like honesty is you know, 809 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 2: I feel really ashamed to say it. But you know, 810 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 2: honesty is not one of my core values and it 811 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:33,320 Speaker 2: never has been ever since I was a child. I 812 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:39,320 Speaker 2: I have learnt to that lying is a survival mechanism 813 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 2: because I because of how I was disciplined, because of 814 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 2: how I was controlled, and you know, I would get 815 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 2: punished for doing something like for I would get punished 816 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,040 Speaker 2: for if it was found out that I did something. 817 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:58,959 Speaker 2: You know, there was no clemency. There was no you weren't. 818 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,680 Speaker 2: You weren't forgiven for like being honest about it. If 819 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,879 Speaker 2: you got found out, you were punished. And so the 820 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 2: only way to you know, to get away with it 821 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 2: was not to be honest about it, but was to 822 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 2: lie and try and get away with it. And that 823 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 2: is so automatic and it's and it causes a lot 824 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 2: of problems in my life. 825 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, but Matt, you coming out and saying that, and 826 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 1: it makes you know, I'm seeing here listening, and it 827 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: makes me reflect on my life and different things. I 828 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,959 Speaker 1: think it's powerful that someone like yourself is talking about 829 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,960 Speaker 1: those things and owning that. And yeah, I think it 830 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:45,800 Speaker 1: helps people understanding where we've all got faults. No one's perfect, 831 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,359 Speaker 1: but where those faults are coming from and why you 832 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,400 Speaker 1: are who you are, so full full credit to you. 833 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean like awareness is one thing, you know, 834 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 2: it's actually awareness is usually is is quite often the 835 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,400 Speaker 2: most painful place to be in because it's it's the 836 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,400 Speaker 2: area in between, you know, not having awareness of the behavior, 837 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,880 Speaker 2: so you're you're oblivious to the behavior, which means that 838 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,719 Speaker 2: you're it's not kind of upsetting to you, You're just 839 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,160 Speaker 2: you're kind of I don't know, damage is and chaos 840 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 2: is occurring around you. You don't know why, but you know 841 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 2: it's not your fault. But then when like awareness is 842 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,800 Speaker 2: actually a very painful place to be in because then 843 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 2: then you're aware that like it's actually you know, you're 844 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,880 Speaker 2: the one that's causing the chaos in your life, and 845 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 2: that it's the stage before action, like when when you know, 846 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,480 Speaker 2: when you cause enough pain to so when the place 847 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,480 Speaker 2: is uncomfortable enough, then you're put in the action to 848 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,319 Speaker 2: actually try and do something about it. So it's not 849 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,520 Speaker 2: just it's not just having the awareness, it's actually about 850 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 2: trying to put in some action to change it afterwards. 851 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, I like to think that we all 852 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,400 Speaker 1: evolve and you'll all learn as you grow, and yeah, 853 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:59,799 Speaker 1: you learn by your mistakes. So you've done the book 854 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: that Dancing with the Stars you also went on only 855 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: fans talk us through that Like that's you know, and 856 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,560 Speaker 1: it's not something that's so surprising these days, like a 857 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,719 Speaker 1: lot of people are doing it. How is that an 858 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: experience for you? 859 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 2: It's been awesome, Like, you know, there's a I think 860 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:23,759 Speaker 2: I like to take pictures of myself anyway, and you know, 861 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,040 Speaker 2: I've got lots of fans who want to see the pictures, 862 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 2: and so if they want to, you know, if they 863 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 2: want to give me money to see see these pictures, 864 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,960 Speaker 2: then you know, why not. And like, I don't even 865 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,960 Speaker 2: do full frontal nudity on my only fans, Like, you know, 866 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,200 Speaker 2: I think it gets a pretty bad rap. But yeah, 867 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 2: it's just, you know, it's just another way for me 868 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 2: to connect with you know, a bunch of people on 869 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:51,680 Speaker 2: a different level. You know, I'm pretty I'm pretty open 870 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 2: and free and easy about you know, myself and my sexuality. 871 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,680 Speaker 2: I don't shame it. I know a lot of other 872 00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:02,080 Speaker 2: people do shame it, which is a shame. And you know, 873 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 2: you know, to think, the balance I think I've I've 874 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,920 Speaker 2: had to find with it is you know, before I 875 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,360 Speaker 2: actually got into it, was like, I wouldn't want this 876 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,120 Speaker 2: to jeopardize my chances of you know, doing anything in 877 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,200 Speaker 2: the mainstream, And so what could I do and what 878 00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 2: do I feel comfortable with doing and sharing that's not 879 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,960 Speaker 2: going to jeopardize my chance of doing anything in the mainstream. 880 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,120 Speaker 2: And I think you know the mainstream, you know, doing 881 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,880 Speaker 2: pornography I think would be something that would mean that 882 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,239 Speaker 2: I couldn't be mainstream. And so you know, I don't 883 00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,480 Speaker 2: do pornography. I don't do you know, full frontal how 884 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 2: much just you know, send a shared you know, sexy 885 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 2: pictures and videos that you know wouldn't be considered pornography. 886 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,600 Speaker 1: Well, I think you explained that, explain that well, and 887 00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,360 Speaker 1: there should be no embarrassment or shame to it the 888 00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,399 Speaker 1: way that way that you've explained it. But it gets 889 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,040 Speaker 1: to react. 890 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,960 Speaker 2: And there should be no there should be no shame 891 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,400 Speaker 2: like for people who do actually share. I mean for me, 892 00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 2: it was you know, and I've got my own hang ups. 893 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,960 Speaker 2: I do have some hang ups around sex, to be honest, 894 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,640 Speaker 2: you know, around my own sexuality like any like, which 895 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,080 Speaker 2: is so bizarre that and that's something that I have 896 00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 2: to keep on checking myself with. I don't shame anybody 897 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,840 Speaker 2: else like I think it's you know, it's it's empower 898 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,200 Speaker 2: I fully support anybody else's you know, who works as 899 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:33,560 Speaker 2: a sex worker or but or who does sex work. 900 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:38,879 Speaker 2: But I, you know, for myself, I kind of sit 901 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,760 Speaker 2: back and go, you know, can I could I defend 902 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,480 Speaker 2: this in the name like as you know, being art 903 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:49,120 Speaker 2: for example, and you know, but all power to other 904 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 2: people like who do you know do pornography and that 905 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,759 Speaker 2: sort of thing. I fully support them, and I don't 906 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,279 Speaker 2: think that should should preclude them. I don't think that 907 00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,520 Speaker 2: should exclude them from being able to have a mainstream career. 908 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 2: But I know in reality that a lot of other 909 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,160 Speaker 2: people do. And a lot of those other people are 910 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,600 Speaker 2: decision makers or you know, for example, with mainstream you know, 911 00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,240 Speaker 2: decision makers have to think about, you know, the talent 912 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:21,799 Speaker 2: they have having the widest possible appeal, and that you know, 913 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,840 Speaker 2: they they wouldn't want to alienate a whole demographic of people, 914 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,600 Speaker 2: quite conservative people, just because they you know, they have 915 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:36,040 Speaker 2: one talent that's you know, is a lot more liberal. 916 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,440 Speaker 2: So it's it's unfortunate that that's the way the world is. 917 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,719 Speaker 2: And and actually, you know, an argument could be made 918 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 2: that the only way to change that would be to 919 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:51,040 Speaker 2: actually have people you know, to be liberal you know, 920 00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,440 Speaker 2: with themselves, and and also can have you know, pioneer 921 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,239 Speaker 2: paved the way to actually have mainstream careers as well, 922 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,640 Speaker 2: and that's the way that a change would be made. 923 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,239 Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm achieving that, you know, but 924 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,279 Speaker 2: also it would be good. 925 00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: Well, I think the way that you've just articulated that 926 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,839 Speaker 1: and explained that. I think people can see where you're 927 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,839 Speaker 1: coming from and no judgment and the fact that you're 928 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,160 Speaker 1: making the comment that people shouldn't be judging others on 929 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,880 Speaker 1: what they do. And what I can say is a 930 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:29,040 Speaker 1: homicide detective, the amount of motives it's driven by sex 931 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:33,839 Speaker 1: in one way or another or suppressed or that it's 932 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,640 Speaker 1: not very healthy. It's not very healthy. And I've seen 933 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,360 Speaker 1: people do things and commit crimes. I'm not talking with 934 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,480 Speaker 1: the completely different level when we talk about pedophiles with children, 935 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:47,759 Speaker 1: that's completely different, but other adult crimes that have been 936 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,560 Speaker 1: driven by sex. The wife, it's been murdered because the 937 00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:55,560 Speaker 1: man has found a new new girlfriend, and yeah, things 938 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,919 Speaker 1: like that. So many times it comes in and quite 939 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,640 Speaker 1: often because they've been suppressing what their actual urges are 940 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,000 Speaker 1: and that leads them to do something that you know, 941 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,680 Speaker 1: I don't think they were necessarily a bad person, but 942 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,719 Speaker 1: they've been lying to themselves and suppressing things and then 943 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:15,719 Speaker 1: they've gone done something something horrendous. So, yeah, I was 944 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,600 Speaker 1: curious how you were going to answer that, but I 945 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,400 Speaker 1: think you answered it very well, and I don't know 946 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,880 Speaker 1: what they else to say. You've covered the law in 947 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:28,759 Speaker 1: that your life. Now you're married, Yes, married, talk us 948 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:30,440 Speaker 1: through that they had the big wedding or. 949 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:38,680 Speaker 2: We had big ish Well, I don't know. Actually that's 950 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,439 Speaker 2: a lie. It's not wasn't big ish. There was about 951 00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 2: seventy people, which I think was bigger than I expected 952 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 2: it to be. 953 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's just got out of hand. 954 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,160 Speaker 2: Oh, I don't have that many friends and family, right, 955 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,040 Speaker 2: and you know it was we did it over in 956 00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:59,480 Speaker 2: We did it in Belgium actually, and so you know, 957 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,080 Speaker 2: I was pros that I actually had, you know, some 958 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 2: as many family members as I did come over for it. Yeah, 959 00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,000 Speaker 2: it was, it was, it was. It was lovely. We've 960 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,640 Speaker 2: been married for four and a half years. You know, 961 00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,759 Speaker 2: we're just like any married couple. We you know, have 962 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,120 Speaker 2: our ups and downs and you know, have to kind 963 00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:27,319 Speaker 2: of work through things as they pop up. And it's yeah, 964 00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:32,319 Speaker 2: it's it's pretty unremarkable relationship in terms of you know, 965 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,000 Speaker 2: it's very very normal. 966 00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:38,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that might be what you need at this 967 00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:43,080 Speaker 1: stage in your life. The Olympics that the Paris Olympics 968 00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,960 Speaker 1: are you involved in? Do you do you attend the 969 00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:48,959 Speaker 1: Olympics or you go into the Olympics or you watch 970 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,800 Speaker 1: the Olympics. What's it like as a post past Olympian 971 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,680 Speaker 1: Do you have any involvement in it? Is there advice 972 00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:57,560 Speaker 1: that you give athletes competing? 973 00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:02,759 Speaker 2: I literally got back yes today from from the Australian 974 00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:07,320 Speaker 2: Olympic Diving teams training camp. They're doing a pre Olympic 975 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,839 Speaker 2: camp in the UK, so I went and spent two 976 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:15,759 Speaker 2: days with them. I love the Yeah, I love the Olympics. 977 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 2: You know, always watch it would always be as involved 978 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,400 Speaker 2: as possible. I've commentated a couple of common common Worth games, 979 00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:27,720 Speaker 2: never managed to commentate the Olympics yet. But this Olympics 980 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,120 Speaker 2: I am doing. I will be in Paris and doing 981 00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:35,200 Speaker 2: a couple of things. Actually, I'll be hosting groups at 982 00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:40,480 Speaker 2: the diving, like spectator groups on behalf of Airbnb. Airbnb 983 00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,320 Speaker 2: is one of the Olympic, the IOC partners, and so 984 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,000 Speaker 2: they got a bunch of tickets for different sports and 985 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:48,720 Speaker 2: so they gave a bunch of tickets away and they 986 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:52,200 Speaker 2: got some athletes to you know, to host these groups. 987 00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,920 Speaker 2: And so I'll be hosting several groups at the diving 988 00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,760 Speaker 2: and I will also I've also been working for a 989 00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:05,240 Speaker 2: year and a half with a project called Compete Proud, 990 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,840 Speaker 2: which is aiming to you know, mix sports more diverse 991 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:14,560 Speaker 2: and inclusive places, you know, particularly for LGBTQ plus athletes. 992 00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:19,800 Speaker 2: But you know, but diversity is an inclusion is it 993 00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:27,640 Speaker 2: works on many levels, you know, for in terms of racism, sexism, ableism, 994 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,880 Speaker 2: you know, all that sort of stuff. So I will 995 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,240 Speaker 2: actually be in Paris working at Pride House as well, 996 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,600 Speaker 2: which is a space that you know, for the last 997 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,440 Speaker 2: you know, since probably two thousand and I think just 998 00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,840 Speaker 2: after two thousand and eight. I think it's been a 999 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,520 Speaker 2: common feature of Olympic Games to have a Pride House, 1000 00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:53,840 Speaker 2: which is a space for we're fans or athletes or 1001 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,640 Speaker 2: support staff for you know, just anybody kind of involved 1002 00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,680 Speaker 2: in the in the Olympics to have a safe space 1003 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:06,120 Speaker 2: for them. So I will be there doing some doing 1004 00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:13,560 Speaker 2: interviews with athletes and being around for meeting greets and 1005 00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:15,360 Speaker 2: education sessions and stuff like that. 1006 00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:20,520 Speaker 1: Fantastic, fantastic. I think we might wrap it up at 1007 00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:23,160 Speaker 1: this stage. We in between part one and Part two. 1008 00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,080 Speaker 1: I was talking to our producer Emily. She'll probably get 1009 00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,520 Speaker 1: cranky at me for this and just say he's so 1010 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:33,320 Speaker 1: insightful as in we've been talking so I've got to 1011 00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,680 Speaker 1: say that too, Matt. I like the fact that you 1012 00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,920 Speaker 1: can look at yourself and learn from life's lessons and 1013 00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:44,200 Speaker 1: explain it so so well, and you articulate your emotions 1014 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,800 Speaker 1: and all that, and I think by sharing your feelings, 1015 00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,960 Speaker 1: I honestly believe you're making a difference. So full credit 1016 00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,760 Speaker 1: to you. And maybe the winning the Olympic gold medal 1017 00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:57,400 Speaker 1: is not going to be the highlight of your life, 1018 00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,640 Speaker 1: and the way that your life is playing out helping 1019 01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,880 Speaker 1: others is getting you more reward than what you believe 1020 01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:05,120 Speaker 1: the Olympic gold might get you. 1021 01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,640 Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, yeah, thank you. It's it's a really 1022 01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:13,200 Speaker 2: lovely thing to say. Yeah, And it's you know, it's 1023 01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:17,200 Speaker 2: kind of something that I hope for myself. You know 1024 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,080 Speaker 2: that the you know that this achievement is not kind 1025 01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:25,320 Speaker 2: of the best thing that I ever do, and you know, 1026 01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,640 Speaker 2: and and actually what I'm trying to do is use 1027 01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:32,320 Speaker 2: that as a platform in order to make a real 1028 01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,680 Speaker 2: difference in the world. And so yeah, that's what I'm 1029 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:39,040 Speaker 2: trying to do. And it's it's that's probably the most 1030 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:40,880 Speaker 2: validating thing you could possibly say to me. 1031 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's great. Thank you so much for coming 1032 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,000 Speaker 1: on the podcast and making the time. I know you, 1033 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,440 Speaker 1: I know you're busy and all the best for the future, 1034 01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,600 Speaker 1: and I've really enjoyed that chat, so thank you. 1035 01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:53,760 Speaker 2: Thanks Gary, I really enjoyed our chat too. 1036 01:00:54,000 --> 01:01:00,760 Speaker 1: Cheers. We finally got an Olympic gold medalist. Onto I 1037 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,800 Speaker 1: catch Killers and the chat that I had with Matt 1038 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,080 Speaker 1: Mitchell I found quite inspiring sad at times when he 1039 01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,600 Speaker 1: talks about his childhood and the problems that he had 1040 01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:13,400 Speaker 1: leading up to achieve Olympic goal. In life after Olympic goals, 1041 01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:15,560 Speaker 1: he talks about his drug addiction and a lot of 1042 01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:20,040 Speaker 1: other things that I think people will find quite inspiration. 1043 01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:21,080 Speaker 1: I certainly did.