WEBVTT - Do I really need that much? The problem with superannuation calculators 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.000 Hello and welcome to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:18.439 James Kirby. Welcome aboard everybody. Am I imagining this or 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:23.360 is there suddenly again a lot of bad behavior, bad 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:28.240 actors as they call them, sweeping through the investment markets, 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.280 not just share markets, but property markets as well. We 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.600 mentioned on the show just on Tuesday we had Sam 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.960 Price and he was telling this extraordinary story about how 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:42.400 influencers social media financial I don't want to say the 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:47.080 word advisors, but financial operators who assume the mantle of 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:52.879 advisors on social media had been luring investors into single 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:57.880 districts basically within certain cities Brisbane and Melbourne, and of 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.960 what Sam described as pump and dumb, basically that they 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.240 lie them all into the one suburbs, the suburb goes up, 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.160 and then of course it's all over and reality hits 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.200 and these suburbs don't actually turn out to be good investments. 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:14.399 I had always thought of influencers and advice issues around 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.000 share market, but it can be property as well. We 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.040 also have, of course, the emerging scandal ever growing scandal 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:24.520 around the trust Gargent Group and issues around SMSF commencements. 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.160 We're big SMSF fans on the show, but we always 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.920 say they're not suitable for everybody. My guest today is 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.800 someone who's right across all this. He is not only 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:38.840 across it, but he has the power i'd like to 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.039 think sometimes at least to change what's going on. It's 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:47.160 Alan Kirkland, and he is the ACIC Commissioner with particular 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.080 oversight on consumer affairs. How are you Allen? 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.840 Excellent, James, Really great to be here with you today. 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:55.720 Very nice to have you on the show, and good 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:57.720 to have someone like you on the show. As I've 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.680 mentioned to you earlier, we offer mention money smart as 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.040 a place to start for investors and to get a 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.360 grips on the basics. Our listeners probably would think that 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:12.040 they're sort of step up from that level, but often 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.680 that's for dangerized as you'll probably tell us pretty soon. 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.240 Just quickly on that, just on that first point I 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.120 was talking about, and I know, folks, the reason Alan 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:22.440 is on the show is he wants to tell us 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.640 a few things about what's going on at ACIC and 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.560 what they're doing and some of the areas that they 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.000 want to warn us about. But on that whole thing 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:35.440 about finfluencers. It seems like it never goes away. Is 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.840 how do you guys actually move in on that. It 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.200 seems like a perennial problem. This is an old problem 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.480 dressed up in a new fashion on social media. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:47.240 I think, oh, it is a key concern for us. 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:49.840 I mean we, of course, I only have the power 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.880 to interven if they're actually if people are actually giving 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.160 advice in relation to financial products or services. So there 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.840 are lots of forms of property investment that don't fall 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:02.080 into that category. Can't necessarily take action if people are 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.359 giving advice about property investment, but with what they're doing 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:09.680 is recommending that people invest in a financial product or service, 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:13.480 then it's quite likely that they're providing financial advice and 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:14.680 that requires a license. 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:16.839 And we've been really active against influencers. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.640 Earlier this year we took action coordinated action with a 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:22.920 range of regulators around the world as part of a 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:27.200 global week of action against influencers that involved search warrants 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.720 and arrests and some other jurisdictions. In Australia, we identified 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.440 a range of influencers who we felt were giving financial 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.200 advice and we've reached out to them and thus the 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.280 second time we've done that, and we have actually seen 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.480 a number of them changed their practices after being contacted 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.400 by ACIC because I think for them it came as 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.560 a I hope it came as a bit of a 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.080 shock and really made them think about the fact they 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.440 might be breaching the law. So we'll have a bit 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.120 more to say about that, I think earlier in the 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.120 new year, because we're just sort of wrapping up that 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:57.520 latest round of action. But I can assure your listeners 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.960 that it's a key concern for us because to give 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.800 financial advice in Australia you need to be appropriately qualified, 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.480 and you need to have a license or be authorized 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.320 by a licensee, and we will take action where we 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.080 find people who aren't complying with those requirements. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.520 Oh the sure we make a socially when we have 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.680 a question and answer session, I make it very clear 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:19.760 that it's not advice. I say this all the time, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:24.840 it's information. But how does the average intelligent, every day 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:29.919 investor de called what's advice and what isn't advice? And 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.920 has it become more difficult with now media or social media? 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.560 Actually, the test in the law around what's financial advice 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:39.400 is pretty simple. 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:40.400 When you strip it back. 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.080 It really comes down to whether somebody is making a 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:47.640 recommendation about a particular financial product. So if somebody is 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:52.159 suggesting that you invest in something, that's effectively advised, so 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.920 you should always have it your I guess your senses up. 0:04:55.960 --> 0:05:00.320 If somebody's talking up a particular investment option, and if 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.719 they're encouraging you to invest in it, you should be 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.520 checking out whether they've actually got a license or whether 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.800 they're somehow authorized by an existing licensee. And that's important 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:14.160 because if you get financial advice from somebody who's appropriately licensed, 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.839 there are important consumer protections that come with that. So 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.480 they've got to be a member of Africa the Dispute 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.480 Resolution Body, they've got to have appropriate arrangements for dealing 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.760 with complaints you make to them and for providing compensation 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.320 if something goes wrong. So you do get some important 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.600 protections by engaging with somebody who's appropriately licensed. So you 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.520 should always ask that question if they're suggesting you make 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.440 an investment. Obviously there are some exemptions for genuine media 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.479 organizations or which I think is part of what you 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.159 were referring to in those earlier comments, James, but outside 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.440 programs like this, if somebody on social media or somewhere 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:50.640 else is telling you to invest. 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:51.480 You should always be. 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.280 Wary and how would I check? So somebody's quite convincing, 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.160 how would I actually check that they are licensed? 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.120 Yeah, so there is a register that we published. We've 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.840 got registers of licensees and particularly of financial advisors who 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.120 are authorized to give financial advice. And the easiest way 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.320 into them is in fact via the money smart website 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.479 that you mentioned. So if you go to money smart 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.599 dot gov dot au look at the financial advice section, 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:19.840 you'll be able to find access to the register there 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.159 and you can enter the name of an individual and 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.320 you'll be able to find out whether they're authorized to 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:25.400 give financial advice. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:30.080 Okay, Now, a lot of our listeners maybe is very 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.000 roughly coming up on half of them have an SMSA 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.880 for self managed super fund or aspire to have one. 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:42.159 And there is issues again yet again, and something of 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.479 a flashpoint, I suppose in this area in the first 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:50.599 guaragean scandal which is emerging just now where there's many 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:55.480 investors caught with their super in scheme, shall we see, 0:06:55.560 --> 0:07:00.560 which is it's unfolding as we speak. But what's really 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:04.680 surprising is there's an estimated billionaire, so that could be 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:09.080 lost here. And it's got a lot of big names 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.800 in it, right, So a lot of big names were 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:16.080 in one way or another entangled in this and people 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:21.480 were very poorly advised. But what strikes me Alan is 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.520 is that it seems that's at the heart of the 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:31.120 financial system. Is there what can you do to protect 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:38.880 people from getting losing money or risking losing money when 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:46.080 an affair emerges where it ostensibly looks feasible or reasonable 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.840 because well known household names are mentioned in passing by 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:51.200 these operators. 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.400 It is one of the questions that is probably our 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.760 biggest priority in ethic at the moment, I mean across 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.160 the Shield and First Guardian Color, which had some really 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:04.080 similar elements. I mean, we've got a whole bunch of 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.080 investigations underway. We've already launched a range of litigation. We've 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.320 i think been in court around forty five times in 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.120 the past year or so, and we've got about forty 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.120 people working on these. So it's one of our biggest 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.920 priorities as a regulator, and one of the ways that 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.120 one of the key things we've done is an immediate 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.680 priority is to try and protect investor funds. So when 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.200 we were alerted to the fact that there might have 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.440 been I guess some inappropriate behavior going on in the 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:35.199 management of those funds that people invested in by their 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.560 super one of the first things we did once we 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.240 had sufficient evidence was to go to court to get 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.800 asset freezing orders to stop any more money disappearing. We 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.360 eventually got receivers and liquid ators appointed who can secure 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.800 whatever assets are there and try to make sure they're 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.760 appropriately distributed, and ideally there's many of those funds as 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.000 possible to go back to investors, so that's an important 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.600 part of it. One of the challenges is sometimes these 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.079 things come to our attention a bit too late for 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.040 us to save all of the assets, so we're still 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.120 working through the process to see how much can go 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.640 back in relation to investors in those two schemes. But 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.840 the other thing we've done is to try and find 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.920 other methods to get compensation for investors, So, particularly in 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.319 relation to the shield Master Fund, which is the other 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.960 one I mentioned, we did get an important agreement recently 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.040 from mcquarie, which is one of the big names I 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.719 assume you're referring to. It is that they will make 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.559 things right for the people who invested via the McQuary 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:32.040 platform in the Shield master funds. So for those investors 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.680 who did so via McQuary, they will be receiving effectively 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.160 well kind of refunds. All that there will be payments 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.720 made back into their super too make up for the 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.800 loss of the veil of their original investment. So that's 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.560 an important action that we pursued because this is people 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.240 super and we know that it's very distressing for people 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:51.360 who've based losing it. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.440 The Mcquarie payment promises such as three hundred million or so, 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.840 and it would appear to be a very good development 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.080 and it appears to be voluntary as such. Are you 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:09.559 hopeful that other key players will follow in their footsteps? 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:12.960 We would like to see them do. So. 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.160 There's one other superannuation trustee that we've taken action against 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.360 in relation to Shield at this stage, and that is 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:25.040 Equity Trustees, the superannuation entity run by Equity Trustees, and 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.040 in that case we are seeking court orders that they 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.839 provide remediation to the customers affected. So I'll have to 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.760 see how that works through the courts, but it demonstrates 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:36.640 that's one of the key things we're pursuing and then 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.199 in the bigger picture, James, we want to do everything 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.880 we can to stop this happening again, and that involves includes, 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:46.480 I guess holding the individuals and the entities to account. 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:51.640 So I mentioned we've started litigation against those two super trustees. 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.720 We've taken started action against several advice firms. We've started 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:59.240 action against one of the lead generation firms and a 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.400 research us that gave positive ratings to the shield Master Fund, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.360 as well as already taking a ministry of action to 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.319 ban a number of advisors. So all of that is 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.520 part of the bigger picture in terms of trying to 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.320 stop this sort of thing happening again, by with the 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.400 bannings taking some people out of the industry who in 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.000 our view of caused harm, and with the other action, 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.679 trying to send a really powerful message to others that 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.600 might be considering engaging in this sort of conduct that 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.679 there are consequences and they can be really serious. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.640 I don't want to be fatalistic, but it strikes me 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.920 that no matter how hard you try as a regular leader, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.959 it's a conversion of this one born every minute, right, 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:43.319 it never stops. There is always people who will infiltrate 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:47.920 the system and not act appropriately, and that way, the 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.840 conventional systems can never stop that until it's revealed. Do 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.000 you think you have a reasonable that this is a 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:59.760 landmark case that may change things or not. 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.320 I think this has the potential to change things by 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.080 if we're successful in our litigation. And on top of 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.280 the litigation I've already mentioned, we've got the option if 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.480 we think it's appropriate to refer some matters to the 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.680 Director of Public Prosecutions to consider criminal action. We're not 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.280 there yet, but if that were to happen, that's an 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.960 even stronger message to people about the consequences of engaging 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.120 in this sort of conduct. And then the other part 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.000 of it is, we do think there is a question 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.640 about whether there are some regulatory gaps, like whether the 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.720 law could actually be tightened in a key few areas 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.840 to better protect people. And I think as we work 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:42.360 through everything we've seen and complete these investigations our thinking 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.760 we'll get clearer on that. And the Assistant Treasurer has 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.480 said the government is very much looking at that issue 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.600 of whether there could be some law reforms to better 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.800 protect people in the future from this sort of harm. 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.000 Okay, very good, and very good to get your view 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.679 on that issue, which, of course, as I say, is 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.520 unfolding still before our eyes. Now, folks, there is some 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.000 very interesting developments happening at ACID which I think would 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:06.719 be very good for you to hear about. We're going 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.880 to catch up with that in a moment with Alan. 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:26.800 Talk to you soon. Hello, Welcome back to The Australian's 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.720 Money Puzzle podcast. James Kirby here with Alan Kirkland ACCIK 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.920 commissioner and the commissioner certainly, I think for many people 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.760 with the most interesting part in ACCIC, which is in 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.520 the consumer area, which is immense of course, and most 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.360 of the stories that you read we'll come across his 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:49.640 desk sooner or later because he's the police. Now. I 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.280 mentioned at the start that we often mentioned money Smart, 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.040 the website which is a very good resource, a free resource, 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.800 a government resource, and to that extent, has exceptionally in 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:04.040 the tendance and that is that's in your realm, and 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:08.640 you've done a study of who's been using it, and 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.960 you've discovered a few things, What did you find out. 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.360 We've done a really big piece of research here. 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.600 I mean there's been a range of quality of research 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.000 talking to people in focus groups. We also did a 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.400 really large survey with around three thousand respondents, which is 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.240 a pretty big sample for that sort of research. I 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.920 guess some of the high levels of findings that stood 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.960 out to us were that only about a quarter of 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.000 Australians over eighteen consider themselves to be very knowledgeable in 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.720 relation to financial matters, and I guess on the flip side, 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.040 around three quarters would actually like to be more knowledgeable. 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.840 So that says two key things to me. One is 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:46.640 there is a big gap that we can help to 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.160 bridge in terms of helping be able to understand financial 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.560 products and services and how to negotiate the system. But 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.440 also that people are really open to that, like that 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.520 there is a thirst to know more, and so that 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.080 just says there's a big opportunity for money smart. We're 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.680 already feeling that in many ways, but there's a big 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.040 opportunity for us to do a lot more to help 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.080 Australians who both need and want that sort of help. 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.520 I imagine part of this is due to the fact 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.920 that and we have this is measured and it is audited, 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:21.200 and it is beyond doubt that Australia was better and 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.360 more more financially literate ten years ago and we have 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.000 actually dropped through the OECD tables and we seem to 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:33.040 be it's almost stagnant really. In the UK this month 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:38.440 they introduced financial literacy as a mandatory subject. Do you 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:43.120 think that to that extent those issues are reflected in 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.000 what you're service showed? 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.520 Look, it's a bit hard to say, really, I think it. 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:49.960 I said. 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.720 Our reflection has been that Money Smart in some senses 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:54.800 has been a bit of a victim of its own 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.920 success in that it has been really effective I guess, 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.720 attracting the attention of lots of Australia. It has over 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.520 eleven point seven million visitors per year. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:04.760 That's a lot. 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.040 We probably haven't really been thinking on an ongoing basis 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.240 about how do we just constantly improve and make sure 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.800 we're addressing the right topics that people are thinking about, 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.720 that we're talking about them in ways that resonate with 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.440 the different groups of consumers that are thinking about those topics, 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.320 and also going to consumers where they are, whether that's 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.840 you know, on social media, talking to people like I'm 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.320 doing with your listeners today. So I think for us 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.600 as a reflection, we actually need to be investing a 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:37.280 lot more in keeping money Smart fresh and just constantly evolving. 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.600 That you mentioned you've found some particular revelations as such 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.800 an on the pre retiree area, Can you tell us 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.720 a little about that. What did you find out? What 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:48.840 do our listeners need to know? 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:51.480 Yeah, that's a big focus for us, So I think 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.920 your listeners will hopefully start to see a lot more, 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.000 including some advertising in media to really try and lift 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.280 the awareness of money Smart as a place you can 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:03.040 go in if you're approaching retirement or in retirement. So 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.119 we're planning on doing a lot more in that area. 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.480 But I think one of the key things that we 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.360 got from the research about pre retirees was some real 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.120 clarity around the key questions that are on their mind. 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.240 So I yes, what are they all of Across all. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.760 The groups that we research there, we are five key 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.320 things that came up. They were how much will I 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.720 need to retire? Will I have enough? How do I 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.280 make it last? Am I on the right track? And 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.000 what can I do to improve now? They're all really 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.959 kind of sensible questions, but there are also questions that 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.440 we can really provide practical help with both in terms 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.920 of I guess information we can publish to help people 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.159 to understand some of the key issues and products available, 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.000 but also things like tools and calculators, which have always 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.000 been at the heart of money smart as well. So 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.320 it's not just sort of, you know, publishing web pages 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.200 where people can read stuff. It's also always been about 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.520 giving people tools that they can play with and help 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.080 to understand how it applies to them. 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.080 I guess this question every week, everydear year. How much 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.040 should I have in super? And I don't want to 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.280 be facetious about it, but I see as much as 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.159 you possibly can, there's a lot of estimates around. I 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.200 don't know how you guys dealt with this, but I 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.879 could show you a spectrum of estimates of what people 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:20.720 see that the average Australian or the everyday Australian investors 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.879 should have in super to have a comfortable retirement or whatever. 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:28.600 And there's a big spectrum. Why is there a big spectrum? 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:33.119 And are some people on that spectrum not being honest? 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.880 I think it's a really interesting question. I mean, some 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:42.880 of those estimates come from bodies in the superannuation industry. 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.400 There are others that come from I guess, groups outside 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.800 the industry such as superannuation consumers Australia, and we draw 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.840 on a range of them in our tools and really 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.520 at Money Smart because we are independent, we don't have 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.320 an agenda, so we're not trying to say we don't 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.160 go into helping people saying this is what's right for you. 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:04.720 What we're trying to do is put the power into 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.600 individual consumers and investors' hands, so to help them to 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.600 understand the issue, give them tools, and the tool might 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.320 sort of itself give a range of options, but it 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.600 helps people to understand, you know, the implications of each 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.600 option and to match it to their circumstances so they 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.800 can work out what's the right answer for them and 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.919 what they want to be aiming to have upon retirement, 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:26.439 and then move on to think, well, how do I 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.639 actually get there? What decisions can I make now that 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:30.240 will put me in a better position. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.000 When I read retirement age. 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.399 The biggest single criticism I have of all those, and 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:37.960 I only sort of figured it out in recent times, 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:44.040 is that in general they do an actual areial assumption 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.879 of some description and they say, okay, you're going to 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.600 retire with sixty five and you've got X, and this 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:51.680 is how you have this is how we're to work. 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.440 But they assume that at a certain point that these 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.800 assumptions about how much you'll have each year at the 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.000 calculators they tell you they assume it runs down to zero, 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.600 and then you flip over to the pension when you 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.560 are how will I describe this politely advanced old age 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:09.760 on thirty grand a year or whatever it will be 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:14.240 by then do you think that's is that the way 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.000 you guys do it or is that the best way 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:16.440 to do it? 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.320 I think it really depends on someone's individual circumstances, and 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:23.320 we're trying to help people to understand that. So the 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.439 answer is very different depending on what sort of income 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.479 you've been on as you approach to retirement, and what 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.600 sort of lifestyle you're accustomed to and you expect to maintain. 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.920 Makes a big difference. What your housing situation is, so do. 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:38.800 You own your own home or not? It's probably one 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:39.840 of the biggest factors. 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.119 And also, you know, are there any other sort of 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:47.720 particularly important types of expenditure that you're going to have 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.080 to face in retirement. So we try to help people 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.800 to work through some of those factors and work out 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.400 what's right for them, and for some people indeed planning 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.679 to spend some of retirement on the pension, maybe the 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.240 right decision, But for lots of people that it's not 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.320 going to be reality, to be honest, because in fact, 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.240 the other thing we know is for people with significant 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.440 superbalances on the whole, they tend not to use all 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:13.200 of their super in retirement. Many people die with still 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:15.639 money left in their super. So the idea that if 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:17.199 you've got a decent balance, you're going to get down 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.679 to the level where you'd be eligible for a significant 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:21.720 pension isn't a reality for lots of people based on 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:23.399 how they use their super now. 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:25.919 Based on what we know about how much they need behind. Okay, 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:27.560 just one last thing on that issue, we'd go to 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.639 a break. The estimates about how much you should have 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:35.560 in super. Are they, in your opinion, generally too high 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:36.080 or too low? 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:42.560