Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About, the Stellar podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Lamarquin to your host, and every week I
Speaker 1: sit down with some of the biggest names in the
Speaker 1: country because when Australias celebrities are ready to talk, they
Speaker 1: come to Something to talk about. On paper, Taman Sarsock's
Speaker 1: life looks pretty glamorous. A well known actor with roles
Speaker 1: in hits such as Home and Away, The Young and
Speaker 1: the Restless and Pretty Little Liars on her CV, she
Speaker 1: also hosts a successful podcast and, along with her film
Speaker 1: producer husband and their two daughters, splits her time between
Speaker 1: Sydney and Nashville. But Taman insist her life is far
Speaker 1: from perfect. In fact, as the name of her podcast,
Speaker 1: The Shit Show suggests, it's actually pretty messy and mundane.
Speaker 2: And I don't do it because I need any accolades
Speaker 2: or people to.
Speaker 3: Go, oh my god, you're so brave.
Speaker 2: I do it to make people fee less alone and
Speaker 2: also like save me And on today's episode is something
Speaker 2: to talk about?
Speaker 1: She joins me to discuss this and finding her home
Speaker 1: in two different countries, what it's really like to start
Speaker 1: in a Hallmark Christmas movie. Her biggest musical regrets and
Speaker 1: why she no longer feels she has to fake the
Speaker 1: perfect life. Tamin Sursock, Welcome to the Stellar Podcast.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It's a great honor,
Speaker 2: lovely to see you.
Speaker 1: And happy New Year to you. One of our very
Speaker 1: first episodes of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4: Now, how were the holidays?
Speaker 1: You are one of these people that has to not
Speaker 1: only juggle you know, family and in laws like so
Speaker 1: many people too, but you're juggling a couple of different countries.
Speaker 4: How does that factor to where.
Speaker 1: You're going to spend Christmas in New Yay?
Speaker 3: Goodness?
Speaker 2: My family actually my mom and dad who I was
Speaker 2: raised in Sydney, Australia from the ages of five. I
Speaker 2: was actually born in South Africa. I don't know if
Speaker 2: everyone knows that. So I was born in Johannesburg and
Speaker 2: then immigrated to Australia. And we've been in Australia till
Speaker 2: I was about twenty one. But my parents are still
Speaker 2: there and my brother and his wife, so typically we go.
Speaker 3: Back to Australia. But I've been to Australia I think
Speaker 3: four times.
Speaker 2: Last year twenty twenty four, I definitely spent about four
Speaker 2: and a half months there last year, so.
Speaker 3: It was their time to come to us.
Speaker 2: I was like, it's time to do that twenty hour
Speaker 2: flight because now I'm in.
Speaker 3: Nashville, not in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: Los Angeles is only say twelve and a half hours,
Speaker 2: but you have to attack on an extra four and
Speaker 2: a half to get to Nashville.
Speaker 3: So they were exhausted.
Speaker 2: The poor things had to go to Hawaii first since
Speaker 2: spent three days recovering, then to La a day to
Speaker 2: recover in La.
Speaker 3: And then to Nashville. So I said to them, you
Speaker 3: know when any next coming back through? Like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: So We're just really they're still here and I'm definitely
Speaker 2: loving each and every moment of just the small things.
Speaker 2: You know, we we do live in both countries. I
Speaker 2: think we'll always live in both countries, but I think
Speaker 2: I would like to make it more fifty to fifty.
Speaker 2: And it's really just the kids schooling that we're navigating,
Speaker 2: trying to figure that out. And I think we've got
Speaker 2: one of the kids sorted. It's just a second what
Speaker 2: we have to do. It's not an easy feat. But again,
Speaker 2: my career kind of and my husband's career, we have
Speaker 2: a foot in both places, so you know, when we
Speaker 2: love both things, it's okay to say it took me
Speaker 2: a long time to be like I'm allowed to say
Speaker 2: I love being an Aussie, and I also there's so
Speaker 2: much of America that I also love too, and it's
Speaker 2: also given me a lot like my husband, So it's
Speaker 2: okay to say that I love both and there are
Speaker 2: different things in both that are just phenomenal, and I'm
Speaker 2: really blessed and lucky to get to experience both.
Speaker 1: I'd say absolutely, it's this idea that one must come
Speaker 1: at the expensive another is this a really like old
Speaker 1: fashioned regressive idea, isn't it? Your heart is big enough
Speaker 1: to love a couple of different countries, and especially I
Speaker 1: think when you have that story of growing up with
Speaker 1: parents that migrated to a country, your heart expands more
Speaker 1: and more with each country that becomes, i think, part
Speaker 1: of your family tapestry. It's lovely to hear that, having
Speaker 1: made the effort to do that Transpacific flight four times
Speaker 1: in a year, that your family.
Speaker 4: Came to you.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming this means though, that maybe you hosted Tamin
Speaker 1: and of course a lot of people will have seen
Speaker 1: you over the summer break over the Christmas break in
Speaker 1: the iconic Hallmark film. You were in the Christmas movie
Speaker 1: Trivia at Saint Nick's. I know that is something that
Speaker 1: you get asked about all the time. Now does that
Speaker 1: raise the stakes? Does that raise the pressure? I mean,
Speaker 1: if you have got any association with the Hallmark Christmas
Speaker 1: that's gotten, I mean, that's.
Speaker 4: A pressure cooker right there.
Speaker 2: I didn't know how many people like I've done my goodness,
Speaker 2: like including Home Away, probably one thousand, five hundred episodes
Speaker 2: of television in some way, either with Prittle Liars or
Speaker 2: Home and Away. I had a young on The Restless,
Speaker 2: so I was on a few different shows, Hannah Montana
Speaker 2: at here so like homework movies are like what people
Speaker 2: live and die by here, Like it's just it's like
Speaker 2: a cold. I didn't know that I was part of
Speaker 2: the cult until I became part of it. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think it's because life can be really intense, especially
Speaker 2: as a parent, and I think especially the nature of
Speaker 2: what's going on in politics, it's just to turn on
Speaker 2: the news and it's just so much fear and division
Speaker 2: and anger, and sometimes I think people just really need
Speaker 2: that lukewarm water bath to get into and just be like,
Speaker 2: it's not too hot, it's not too cold, but it
Speaker 2: gives me comfort. And I think that is why homework
Speaker 2: does so well and these movies do so well, is
Speaker 2: because it really just speaks to there's just no drama,
Speaker 2: and I think our limbic systems are constantly on attack
Speaker 2: and we're a defense all the time, and it's so
Speaker 2: stressful that I think people can just go, Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna watch a movie.
Speaker 3: There's gonna be no blood.
Speaker 2: It gutschool swearing like it is. I don't have to
Speaker 2: be stressed about my kids watching it. And so people
Speaker 2: love it. And yeah, it was just such a nice experience.
Speaker 2: A lot of the films that I do, I'm either
Speaker 2: screaming or crying, or you know, I'm thinking about the accent.
Speaker 2: I've got to change the accent for this, or it's
Speaker 2: a period, whatever it is. It was just nice to
Speaker 2: play like a version of myself, maybe a little more uptight,
Speaker 2: and just enjoy it. I don't really get a lot
Speaker 2: like oftentimes just being on set and just being like,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna enjoy this experience because I'm constantly thinking
Speaker 2: about like what would the character want?
Speaker 3: What am I thinking?
Speaker 2: What is this motivation, and so yeah, it was a
Speaker 2: really cool experience. And they say, so fingers crossed the
Speaker 2: ones you do one, you're in the family, so you
Speaker 2: end up doing like three the next year.
Speaker 3: At least that's what I'm manifesting.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 1: People say that it becomes part of their tradition as well.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously most of us are in a bit
Speaker 1: of a rhythm about when we might start thinking about
Speaker 1: the Christmas list and putting up the tree and the
Speaker 1: decorations and inviting. But if you're part of the extended
Speaker 1: Hallmark Christmas family, then you're factoring in midyear, presumably when
Speaker 1: it's actually the northern summer. You're there in some beautiful
Speaker 1: snow season pretending and channeling.
Speaker 3: It's very hot. Honestly, it is so hot.
Speaker 2: I had like Fanta and sprite cans down my butt
Speaker 2: because it was I was dripping in sweat. And they
Speaker 2: have like BM and a beanie and like a jacket
Speaker 2: and a scuff and it is not glamorous. The whole time,
Speaker 2: I'm like, just move your feets, you don't pass out.
Speaker 2: Is very very It's like in the dead of heat,
Speaker 2: in the dead of summer, when we issue these.
Speaker 1: Tam, and you mentioned there's some of the work that
Speaker 1: you've done over the years, including The Young and the Restless,
Speaker 1: Pretty Little Liars, and of course where it all began
Speaker 1: for you. Your acting career was on the set of Home
Speaker 1: and Away. You were so young, you were only fifteen
Speaker 1: when you auditioned while you were still at school for
Speaker 1: the role of Danny Sutherland. You and I first met
Speaker 1: back in that era. Actually, one of my first jobs
Speaker 1: in media was the TV writer at TV Week, and
Speaker 1: you were on the cover of TV Week I'm going
Speaker 1: to say maybe every second or third week during that time,
Speaker 1: shooting on location on Palm Beach in Sydney's Northern Beaches,
Speaker 1: in the studio in Sydney's Epping as it was at
Speaker 1: the time. Taman, what are your memories of that time,
Speaker 1: because when we talk about overnight success, that was a
Speaker 1: casing point one moment. You're at school, you're auditioning for
Speaker 1: this role, you get it. You're like I say, You're
Speaker 1: on all the covers, you won the LOGI for New
Speaker 1: Talent that year.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: Soap opera fandom at it's absolute peaque.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I look back at that time and
Speaker 2: it was such gratitude. And you know, I was saying
Speaker 2: this to someone recently, because no matter what I've done
Speaker 2: in my life, there's always a question or a walk
Speaker 2: down memory lane when it comes to Home and Away.
Speaker 2: And I think it's because there are so many memories
Speaker 2: of people's lives wrapped up in that time because there
Speaker 2: wasn't any other real pay per view options back then,
Speaker 2: so it.
Speaker 3: Was really just Neighbors and Home and Away.
Speaker 2: And I think that the characters were so big back
Speaker 2: then because they.
Speaker 3: Became our family.
Speaker 2: They became you know, we learned from them, that became
Speaker 2: our therapists, they became our you know, our friends out
Speaker 2: like and and we wanted to see them every day
Speaker 2: and we yearned to see them. And I I think
Speaker 2: I was part of something greater than I knew at
Speaker 2: the time that now, you know, you look back and
Speaker 2: I go, wow, I was part of kind of the
Speaker 2: end of that era of the way we consumed television.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so different now. It's all the apps
Speaker 2: in the paper. I mean, there's so many different channels
Speaker 2: and options and choice that I don't know if my
Speaker 2: character would have been as received or as loved if
Speaker 2: that was this day and eight like if it was now.
Speaker 3: And I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I'm not in Australia one hundred percent of the time,
Speaker 2: so maybe Home and Away still looked at and viewed
Speaker 2: it as like that. But I just know that when
Speaker 2: there wasn't many options, I think that's what made it
Speaker 2: such a big deal, you know, And I'm very grateful.
Speaker 2: I'm also a big believer in sort of your life
Speaker 2: is laid out for you and you kind of are
Speaker 2: meant to do what you're meant to do.
Speaker 3: I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I was there at the right time. I'm at the
Speaker 2: right place with the right people. I was paired up
Speaker 2: on many chemistry reads with a lot of different people,
Speaker 2: and for some reason, it was just my it was
Speaker 2: my moment and it was really cool looking back, and
Speaker 2: I think when I was that young, it probably messed
Speaker 2: me up a little bit because you you shouldn't have
Speaker 2: success that young, I think, But I think I've dealt
Speaker 2: with it as I've gotten older in therapy.
Speaker 4: It is true.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is hard for anyone to put in
Speaker 1: proper context what they're going through at such a young
Speaker 1: formative age. And you also just professionally had that experience
Speaker 1: of landing that job and thinking well, this is what happens,
Speaker 1: and then of course that is not how the industry works.
Speaker 1: At twenty one, you packed up and went to Hollywood,
Speaker 1: which is two suitcases. You arrived in LA How was that?
Speaker 4: Did that world.
Speaker 1: Feel scarier and more daunty to you than working in Australia.
Speaker 2: So you might know this, but I announced that I
Speaker 2: have an Australian book deal and I'm writing about this
Speaker 2: period of my life and it's very interesting because I'm
Speaker 2: really walking through it all and I didn't realize. I
Speaker 2: don't really give myself a lot of grace or even
Speaker 2: I'm never really proud of myself. But I look back
Speaker 2: at that time and I go, oh, my goodness. You
Speaker 2: were twenty one years old, you didn't know anyone, and
Speaker 2: you had two suitcases and you had a one way
Speaker 2: ticket to Los Angeles, Hollywood because in your mind there
Speaker 2: was no other choice. And I don't know if i'd
Speaker 2: do that at my age now, But then I had
Speaker 2: the guts and the balls to like to just jump off,
Speaker 2: just jump off the ledge.
Speaker 3: And I actually went to the UK.
Speaker 2: First, and I was signed to Sony BMG, and I
Speaker 2: had a record that I was going to an album
Speaker 2: that I was going to put out in the UK,
Speaker 2: and I spent six months recording music with the people
Speaker 2: who did Britney Spears music and it was like the
Speaker 2: coolest experience. And that song Dancing on my Own by
Speaker 2: Robin was actually my song. And I was like, nah,
Speaker 2: that's not going to be a hit.
Speaker 3: Well that I know, it's like one of the biggest
Speaker 3: suits ever.
Speaker 2: I write about it in the book and I was like, no,
Speaker 2: that's not gonna be good.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna know. I don't see it, but I just.
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, and I wrote this chapter the other
Speaker 2: day that I was sitting in my room in London
Speaker 2: and I thought, I can't do this.
Speaker 1: Like I.
Speaker 2: Love music, but I love acting more and being in
Speaker 2: London is going to stifle what I really think I'm
Speaker 2: born to do, which is to be an actor, to
Speaker 2: be different characters, to put on different cloaks and costumes.
Speaker 2: And I hold Sony BMG. I was like, thank you,
Speaker 2: but I think I'm done, and I left. And if
Speaker 2: anyone really knows that, but my mom asked me, and
Speaker 2: she still reminds me to this day, makes me feel
Speaker 2: very guilty, but she says it lovingly. She's like, I
Speaker 2: remember when you said to me, she said how long
Speaker 2: are you going to be there for? And you said
Speaker 2: as long as it takes, and she's like, and as
Speaker 2: a mother, it broke my heart.
Speaker 3: And I know she's just saying it out of love,
Speaker 3: of course.
Speaker 2: But I think about now having daughters, I think, oh,
Speaker 2: my goodness, if my girls said that they were leaving,
Speaker 2: I don't know how I would feel.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'd be broken.
Speaker 2: Right, you love your children so much, and then your
Speaker 2: whole purpose is to let them fly and to let
Speaker 2: them go.
Speaker 3: And but then when you're.
Speaker 2: Faced with that, it's like you have to step back.
Speaker 2: And I think that that is probably really difficult. At
Speaker 2: the time, I was twenty one, so I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to go and make my dreams come true.
Speaker 4: It's so true.
Speaker 1: It's not of parenting, isn't it realizing as you become
Speaker 1: a parent yourself, and as your daughters are growing up,
Speaker 1: seeing the impact through the lens of your own mom
Speaker 1: and dad, and realizing the selflessness and the sacrifice and
Speaker 1: probably has instilled in you. As you say, it would
Speaker 1: be difficult if your daughter has said that to you,
Speaker 1: But because of what you had role modeled you would
Speaker 1: find it within yourself whatever the decision, to put their
Speaker 1: needs first, because you have seen and experience that.
Speaker 2: Yourself, and you always want your children to follow their dreams.
Speaker 2: But it's like grief. I think, as each each layer
Speaker 2: and each chapter you walk through with your children, you
Speaker 2: lose that chapter before it, you lose your children needing
Speaker 2: you as much. And as I was growing up too,
Speaker 2: I didn't need to be at my parents' house anymore.
Speaker 2: I had to go fly. But there's definitely a loss
Speaker 2: and a grief in that, and it's difficult for all
Speaker 2: parties involved.
Speaker 1: You know, Taman, you said to your mom, as long
Speaker 1: as it takes. What did that mean to you in reality?
Speaker 1: And then when you went to the States and you
Speaker 1: landed that role on The Young and the Restless.
Speaker 4: The hugely popular.
Speaker 1: I mean it sold to so many countries around the world,
Speaker 1: including Australia, that iconic daytime soap. Was that then part
Speaker 1: of did you think, Okay, this is part of the
Speaker 1: journey coming true?
Speaker 3: Yes and no.
Speaker 2: I spent six months there. I had a really big
Speaker 2: Hollywood agent. And the thing about the US is when
Speaker 2: you first go there, I don't know if it's the
Speaker 2: same now, but definitely. When I was like there eighteen
Speaker 2: years ago, it's very much.
Speaker 3: Like you're going to be a star.
Speaker 2: You're just like the next big thing, and when you
Speaker 2: think that, you're phenomenal, like I don't know if they
Speaker 2: do that as much these days, but I got definitely
Speaker 2: sold the dream. And then for six months I auditioned
Speaker 2: and furiously and didn't get a job at all. And
Speaker 2: I remember all my money was tied up. I'd bought
Speaker 2: a property. My parents were really smart with finances, and
Speaker 2: I'd been on home and away for so long, and
Speaker 2: They're like, just buy property, like, just put it in something.
Speaker 2: So I bought a place in Balmain, but I didn't.
Speaker 4: I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I was kind of cash poor, like I didn't have
Speaker 2: any money. So my parents were supporting me for like
Speaker 2: the hotels and the hair and the nails and all
Speaker 2: those things. And then at some point they said, we
Speaker 2: love you, but like you're on your own, and I
Speaker 2: remember going, oh my goodness, I'm here. Of course, they
Speaker 2: would always be a backstop, but I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: really have all this money in the bank. My money's
Speaker 2: tied up in Australia. What am I going to do?
Speaker 3: And I believe that there's a God.
Speaker 2: I believe that there's something greater, because how can there
Speaker 2: be so much magic without there being something greater.
Speaker 3: But I wouldn't say I'm.
Speaker 2: Like a deeply religi, like I don't need to go
Speaker 2: to a church to believe that there's something more. And
Speaker 2: I on that day though, I'd go to a church.
Speaker 2: Funnily enough, and I fell to the floor. I was like, Lord, Savior,
Speaker 2: if you are there, if you are real, please.
Speaker 3: I need a job. I think I was just super desperate.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's funny even people who say they
Speaker 2: don't believe in something higher, like when Rubber meets the Road,
Speaker 2: we pray to something. We played as something that's higher
Speaker 2: than us. And within the next week I got three gigs.
Speaker 2: One of them was Young and the Restless, one was
Speaker 2: the movie I met my husband on, and one was
Speaker 2: a show called Rules of Engagement. And whether it was
Speaker 2: divine intervention, manifestation, God or luck, it is the reason
Speaker 2: I ended up getting a green card, which then I
Speaker 2: was able to stay in the States because your visa
Speaker 2: is up every three months if you don't have a
Speaker 2: green card. But that was not making it for me,
Speaker 2: and I still don't feel like I've made it. I
Speaker 2: don't even think I'm close to what I know I
Speaker 2: could do and what I want to do and what
Speaker 2: I think is on the horizon to do. I think
Speaker 2: I've been very grateful and lucky to have got the
Speaker 2: opportunities that I have, but I also feel like I've
Speaker 2: had a lot of near misses of some really big
Speaker 2: projects that would be completely life changing. And sometimes I
Speaker 2: can sit in my own mind and hear thoughts of
Speaker 2: people that might or might not be true, like you know,
Speaker 2: she hasn't made it, or she had, she could have
Speaker 2: been bigger. And there's like a as I get older,
Speaker 2: there's like a quiet confidence of there is no choice
Speaker 2: for me but to continue. And I think that I
Speaker 2: think it's going to be exciting for me. But I
Speaker 2: do also have that little thing of like proving people wrong.
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't know where it comes from, but
Speaker 2: I think I think that the future there's going to
Speaker 2: be some good stuff happening and coming up.
Speaker 1: Taman on the Jane of Compare and Despair in the
Speaker 1: age of social media. Part of what you work on
Speaker 1: as well is a podcast called The Shit Show Love
Speaker 1: the name did you come up with that name.
Speaker 2: That's what I utter every day of my life.
Speaker 1: I really relate, and of course one of its missions
Speaker 1: is to look at life behind the Highlights Reel. And
Speaker 1: your previous answer, really, I think gives listeners a glimpse
Speaker 1: into your approach, Tamman, which is that, Okay, everything looks
Speaker 1: a certain way, but actually in reality you're going, I
Speaker 1: don't know if I have made it, and I still
Speaker 1: think about the opportunities that were lost or that things
Speaker 1: could be better, and that vulnerability and honesty is something
Speaker 1: that is, as you and I both know, lacking sometimes
Speaker 1: in this era of the Highlights real and there is
Speaker 1: obviously some people would think, well, jamn, you are a famous,
Speaker 1: successful actor with the Young Family, you host a popular podcast,
Speaker 1: got a successful career in multiple continents.
Speaker 4: Surely the highlights.
Speaker 1: Reel is the real And of course that is not true,
Speaker 1: is it? And very much? What part of you what
Speaker 1: informs your work on the shit Show?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, Well, yes I do.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I don't know why we only
Speaker 2: put up the highlightrail, and I think I do know,
Speaker 2: and I think it's because the scariest thing in the
Speaker 2: world is to show up in vulnerability, right, because when
Speaker 2: you're vulnerable, then you're open to attack, fear, feeling awful,
Speaker 2: And so I do something called compare and despair, which
Speaker 2: is when I go on social media. I scroll, and
Speaker 2: I don't drink alcohol, I don't drink caffeine. I don't
Speaker 2: have really any addiction, but social media is and has
Speaker 2: been a really deep addiction for me that I find
Speaker 2: hard to break because within three minutes of being on it,
Speaker 2: I compare and despair. I look at everyone's life and
Speaker 2: I think I'm not doing enough. My family isn't as
Speaker 2: great as everyone else's family. My husband isn't as loving
Speaker 2: as all the other husband's. My house isn't big enough.
Speaker 2: Why don't my glasses match the plates that go perfectly
Speaker 2: with the table setting? And everyone's making all these healthy,
Speaker 2: unprocessed foods for their kids, And I think that from
Speaker 2: me to show up in that space.
Speaker 3: I don't know how to fake it. I don't know
Speaker 3: how to lie about it.
Speaker 2: Yes do I always put every bad moment up on No,
Speaker 2: And I do respect my kids price a scene and
Speaker 2: I don't really talk about them if they're not feeling
Speaker 2: whatever that is.
Speaker 3: But I really try to talk about the things that.
Speaker 2: Like turn my pain into purpose because I look for
Speaker 2: that and I don't find it a lot. And I
Speaker 2: think when I see someone else really struggling, I go, oh,
Speaker 2: thank God, Like, thank god, I'm not the only one.
Speaker 2: Thank God, I'm not the only one who thinks about
Speaker 2: these things. Thank God, I'm not the only one who
Speaker 2: doomed scrolls. Thank God, I'm not the only one who
Speaker 2: feels like a shit mom, like at least fifty five
Speaker 2: percent of the time. And I'm not, but I feel
Speaker 2: that way, and I just want to kind of show
Speaker 2: up in a way that I think will help other people,
Speaker 2: but to be honest, selfishly, it also really helps me.
Speaker 2: Like when I feel like I'm my most authentic, I
Speaker 2: feel good, you know, I feel like, yeah, like I
Speaker 2: suffer from general anxiety, Like it really fucking sucks sometimes.
Speaker 2: And when I tell people that, it's almost like like
Speaker 2: your secrets keep you sick, right, So when I say
Speaker 2: I'm really struggling today and people I see you I
Speaker 2: am too, I'm like, oh, oh my god, maybe I'm
Speaker 2: not as sick as I thought I was. And yeah,
Speaker 2: like that's like super important to me. And I don't
Speaker 2: do it because I need any accolades or people to go,
Speaker 2: oh my god.
Speaker 3: You're so brave.
Speaker 2: I do it to make people feel less alone and
Speaker 2: also to like save me.
Speaker 1: So it's it's I love everything that you've just said,
Speaker 1: and I so agree. I think being authentic, which I
Speaker 1: realize is an overused word. Like a lot of words,
Speaker 1: it becomes a bit of a buzzword, but it's soul
Speaker 1: the truth about as you say, just being honest and
Speaker 1: saying I'm feeling this way is really empowering and liberating
Speaker 1: because it does help other people feel less alone. And
Speaker 1: if you're feeling that way, statistically, there's going to be
Speaker 1: quite literally millions of people feeling the same way that
Speaker 1: didn't feel that they necessarily have permission to acknowledge it.
Speaker 4: But also I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think when you are honest about those things, it's
Speaker 1: so liberating for yourself as well.
Speaker 4: I know that.
Speaker 1: You spoke to Stella about when you went through postpartum
Speaker 1: depression after you had your first baby, and that was
Speaker 1: one of the first times it sort of went a
Speaker 1: bit public and shared that with people, and the response
Speaker 1: that you got, I imagine, was an early indicator of
Speaker 1: how other people and women especially really are crying out
Speaker 1: for seeing their experiences reflected back. Because I think we're
Speaker 1: all everything that you said I relate to, like feeling
Speaker 1: like a shit mum and thinking, oh, everyone else has
Speaker 1: got the perfect matching plates and glasses. I mean, the
Speaker 1: whole thing I think everyone is struggling with and to
Speaker 1: have somebody like you. When you first spoke out about
Speaker 1: the postpartum depression, like I say, imagine that gave you
Speaker 1: an indication of the power of honesty and vulnerability.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I didn't mention. It's almost like I
Speaker 2: have to get through the pain to be able to
Speaker 2: talk about it. I remember with my miscarriages, if I
Speaker 2: didn't have my second daughter, I don't know if I
Speaker 2: would have been able to share.
Speaker 3: I mean, I hope I would.
Speaker 2: But it's almost like I needed to walk through it
Speaker 2: to then be able to compartmentalize it in my brain
Speaker 2: and to take a step back and almost look at
Speaker 2: it and then go, Okay, what was that. I find
Speaker 2: it really difficult to share when I'm in something really painful,
Speaker 2: when I'm really grieving something, because I don't have a
Speaker 2: lot of I don't have a lot of perspective, and
Speaker 2: when I really share my first miscarriage was really bad.
Speaker 2: I was really far along, like not right at the end,
Speaker 2: but you know, there was trigger warning, some formation of
Speaker 2: the feet of slash baby, and we ended up birthing
Speaker 2: that baby at my house a house, and I don't
Speaker 2: it was like so much grief and so much pain
Speaker 2: and so much I even had postpartum from that because
Speaker 2: I was pregnant for quite a while and I couldn't
Speaker 2: even see out of the darkness. And I find it
Speaker 2: even when I really struggle with my anxiety, it's very
Speaker 2: hard for me to show up while i'm doing it
Speaker 2: and go, this is what anxiety looks like. But I
Speaker 2: do feel like when I'm out of it, then I
Speaker 2: can give it back as some kind of gift to
Speaker 2: help someone.
Speaker 3: And for the longest time.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I should I should be able
Speaker 2: to just show up in my pain and grief. But
Speaker 2: I also think social media has made us feel like
Speaker 2: we're not allowed to be quiet, We're not allowed to
Speaker 2: take a step back. I actually haven't been on social
Speaker 2: media for five days and I feel I feel better,
Speaker 2: but I also feel guilty. I feel like I'm missing something.
Speaker 2: I feel like people are waiting for something. I feel
Speaker 2: like people are maybe thinking something's wrong with me, when
Speaker 2: all I need is just it's been a really great,
Speaker 2: intense year and I you know, and a new year,
Speaker 2: and I just want to take a bit of a breath,
Speaker 2: you know. And we should allow that, and we should
Speaker 2: normalize taking breaks from social media and also taking breaks
Speaker 2: from sharing. Sometimes there is so much beauty in not.
Speaker 3: Sharing at times.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to share everything all the time,
Speaker 2: and people go, we share everything.
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, there's definitely some things I do not share.
Speaker 1: I think it is a really important point that you've
Speaker 1: made there about this authenticity and honesty and being vulnerable
Speaker 1: and sometimes choosing to share your story doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you have to do it all the time, and that
Speaker 1: the timeline is really important because it is in the process.
Speaker 1: I imagine timing of working on your memoir, as you've
Speaker 1: already alluded to, your going back and processing some different
Speaker 1: chapters of your life and remembering things and thinking about things.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's bringing up all sorts of emotions as well,
Speaker 1: and I would we often will hear about different experiences
Speaker 1: in people's life when a memoir comes out because they
Speaker 1: didn't want to talk about it. At the time, and
Speaker 1: I imagine that will happen with you as well, because
Speaker 1: I think that's.
Speaker 4: A really valid part of it.
Speaker 1: You don't have to necessarily speak through the raw emotion
Speaker 1: as it's unfolding in real time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also have some chapters that I'm writing
Speaker 2: that I don't know if I'll put in the book
Speaker 2: because I don't know yet. You know, I'm like, that's personal,
Speaker 2: not about anyone else, because I'm like, once the door
Speaker 2: is open to some things that people know about you,
Speaker 2: you can.
Speaker 3: Never go back.
Speaker 2: I also have to ask myself, do people have the
Speaker 2: right to judge me or judge based on a person
Speaker 2: that they don't really even Oh, and so I'm writing
Speaker 2: it as like phathosis, and you know, it's cathartic, but
Speaker 2: I'm like, maybe it will, maybe it won't.
Speaker 3: We will see, Tamon.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you finally a little bit
Speaker 1: about your family and being the mum of two daughters
Speaker 1: who I believe, at the time of us speaking, Phoenix
Speaker 1: is eleven and Lenin is five. Everything that you have
Speaker 1: been through the world, that you saw growing up, the
Speaker 1: things that you saw in the industry, what would you
Speaker 1: hope for your daughters as they grow up about the
Speaker 1: world that they will live in, whatever they choose to
Speaker 1: do with their lives, what would you hope would be
Speaker 1: different for them, and what would you hope would be
Speaker 1: the same for them as they navigate As we talked
Speaker 1: about the grief and the heartache that might bring for
Speaker 1: you as they go out on their own separate paths.
Speaker 2: I think what I would like similar is I'm very
Speaker 2: close to my family, so that that's important.
Speaker 3: We don't have a big family.
Speaker 2: Immigrating from South Africa, was just the four of us,
Speaker 2: so we've got a very tight nucleus. Nucleus and my
Speaker 2: kids are still obsessed with us. We all sleep in
Speaker 2: the sun. I was so anti sleeping in the same room.
Speaker 2: Not everyone on the dog. Everyone's in the same room.
Speaker 4: Serious sleep every.
Speaker 2: Well, everyone's got their rooms, like my five year old's
Speaker 2: got hers, lemony old's get hers, we've got owls. The
Speaker 2: dog has fur room. But everyone decides. So we've actually
Speaker 2: pulled like another bed. So my eleven year old sleeps
Speaker 2: on a actual bed on the floor now mattress, and
Speaker 2: the baby sleeps in the werystal gol baby in the middle.
Speaker 2: Sean sleeps one and I sleeping on the other and
Speaker 2: the dog sleeps on the bottom, and it's just they
Speaker 2: won't get out. And I was so anti in the beginning,
Speaker 2: especially with my first No, no one's allowed in the room.
Speaker 2: And now I just really feel the march of time,
Speaker 2: like I can hear it, and I can feel it
Speaker 2: in my body, and I can see it in their
Speaker 2: hands and their fingers as they grow, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I just don't care anymore, like if one more night
Speaker 2: with them, you know, And people like, what about intimacy
Speaker 2: with your husband, I'm like, we have an office, like
Speaker 2: we have, Like there's other places like you don't you know,
Speaker 2: that doesn't have to be the only place you have
Speaker 2: any intimacy with your husband. And yeah, so we anyway,
Speaker 2: I digress from the same and so what I would
Speaker 2: like is the closeness that we had. I didn't know this,
Speaker 2: but my mom was quite a big feminist, which is
Speaker 2: just equal rights for women, and I am such I
Speaker 2: am such an advocate for women, and I didn't realize
Speaker 2: how much until I spend half my life in America,
Speaker 2: where I really think women here have sort of a
Speaker 2: fight for their lives here. And I am raising two
Speaker 2: girls and they are not equal here, and women are
Speaker 2: still paid less and their rights are at stake, and
Speaker 2: I fear for their future. But the thing that I
Speaker 2: do know is because we have been given the gift
Speaker 2: of travel, being like half Ausies and Australians travel so much.
Speaker 2: Eighty percent of Americans do not have that passport. Eighty
Speaker 2: percent of Americans do not have that passport. Because I've
Speaker 2: been given that gift of travel. What I want for
Speaker 2: them is to see all different religions, ethnicities, places, so
Speaker 2: they can just not that I didn't have this. I
Speaker 2: didn't travel as much. But I just want them to
Speaker 2: always lead with kindness and understanding and empathy. And again
Speaker 2: I had that growing up, but I don't think I
Speaker 2: traveled as much to.
Speaker 3: Maybe understand it all.
Speaker 2: So my girls, I want them to have big voices
Speaker 2: and to speak up and if someone says they're bossy,
Speaker 2: to say no, I'm assertive. And I don't know, I've
Speaker 2: become like a huge feminist lightly because I just want.
Speaker 2: I see my little girl and I'm like, I need
Speaker 2: you to feel like you have a voice and you
Speaker 2: are equal.
Speaker 3: And I think that answered the question. Maybe it didn't.
Speaker 2: It's a great answer it's Tam.
Speaker 1: And my final question for you, since it's January, are
Speaker 1: you a believer and you use resolutions? Is there anything
Speaker 1: that you have a practice of doing in terms of
Speaker 1: self reflection or some predictions or hopes or aspirations for
Speaker 1: the year ahead.
Speaker 2: So I'm putting a real together about this, and I
Speaker 2: really offer this to people and they can take it
Speaker 2: or not. But I think instead of in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: five looking too thinking about looking better, if we can
Speaker 2: focus on feeling better, and that means so much. And
Speaker 2: it also leads to kindness because kindness feels good, empathy
Speaker 2: feels good, health and wellbeing feels good. If you're just
Speaker 2: to stop drinking for some reason, it's because you want
Speaker 2: to feel good. And I think when you feel good,
Speaker 2: you do good. And for me, I gave up drinking
Speaker 2: two years ago, not because I had an issue with it,
Speaker 2: because when I say sober, people like you read a problem,
Speaker 2: which is fine. I just don't want to take it
Speaker 2: away from people who did because it is hard to
Speaker 2: give up. But I thought, I'm just so sick of
Speaker 2: feeling like crap, Like I just don't want to feel
Speaker 2: bad anymore. And I feel that way with even social
Speaker 2: media again, compare in despair. I have boundaries with that.
Speaker 2: I feel like that way with people. There's been some
Speaker 2: friends that have gone their own way and it didn't
Speaker 2: feel good anymore.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to lean more into that. In twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five.
Speaker 2: My big news resolution, which I was so proud of
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four was I was never a reader,
Speaker 2: and I read thirty two books in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: and I'm so proud of myself because I thought, damn,
Speaker 2: you've you know so all of the stories we tell ourselves.
Speaker 2: I thought, I've got eight. I'm stressed. I have anxiety.
Speaker 2: How I'm going to finish a book. Not only did
Speaker 2: I finish books that were easy to read, I finished
Speaker 2: books that were four hundred and seventy five pages because
Speaker 2: they were so beautiful and I got lost in stories
Speaker 2: and I fell in love with characters, and it took
Speaker 2: me into a world away from my anxiety and grief
Speaker 2: and pain and hurt. And I'm like, oh my goodness,
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm part of the world that I
Speaker 2: didn't even know was there. And now I'm like a bookworm,
Speaker 2: like I have a book club and all these things.
Speaker 3: So for me, that was twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty five is every year is always like, drink
Speaker 2: more water because we're drinking that water. My husband's always like,
Speaker 2: you're dehydrated. I'm always like, I'm dizzy, you're dehydrated. I'm anxious,
Speaker 2: you're dehydrated. I'm constipated, you're dehydrated. It's always water. So
Speaker 2: that's always my number one. But it is really twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five is just lean into like like feeling good
Speaker 2: and and not controlling the situation and not I heard
Speaker 2: this on glennon Doyle's podcast, Like I control because it
Speaker 2: makes me feel better. And I also like, when I'm
Speaker 2: suffering in my own grief and pain, I want everyone
Speaker 2: to be suffering because it makes me feel better. And
Speaker 2: I realize, like I don't have to put that on
Speaker 2: other people. I don't have to be codependent with people
Speaker 2: or stuff or Instagram or like, I don't have to
Speaker 2: move one addiction, whether it's sugar addiction, which I kicked
Speaker 2: now as a social media or a person, like I
Speaker 2: have to learn how to not be codependent. And yeah,
Speaker 2: just leaning into boundaries and feeling good. It's really twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five is just more mental health stuff because I
Speaker 2: feel like that's the only way to be happy, is
Speaker 2: just kind of learning how to be better in that respect.
Speaker 4: I love all of that.
Speaker 1: Taman, Thanks for your company today. All the best to
Speaker 1: you for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, you too, and you.
Speaker 1: Can hear more from Tamman on her podcast The Shit
Speaker 1: Show wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for your
Speaker 1: company this week. If you've enjoyed this episode, we'd love
Speaker 1: it if you take a moment to leave a review
Speaker 1: and make sure you're following us, because we'll be back
Speaker 1: again soon with another exclusive guest on Something to Talk About.