WEBVTT - My Neighbour Abused Me | Katy Burns 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Apogee Production. 0:00:10.801 --> 0:00:13.360 Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the 0:00:13.441 --> 0:00:14.241 Muscle comments. 0:00:14.721 --> 0:00:17.921 In this episode, I speak with Katie Burns, who shares 0:00:17.961 --> 0:00:20.360 her story of surviving abuse. 0:00:21.801 --> 0:00:24.841 I was so scared to tell anyone because Daniel, We'll 0:00:24.881 --> 0:00:28.201 just get worried different pet officers and how many would 0:00:28.241 --> 0:00:32.440 being investigative. And I had a breakdown. But I think 0:00:32.481 --> 0:00:34.921 listen that I was right and crawling about it and 0:00:35.241 --> 0:00:37.520 very crops up. I'm gonna have to kill it. 0:00:38.721 --> 0:00:41.161 I'll always leave right, you know, because then I don't 0:00:41.161 --> 0:00:49.161 even have the half years of freedom. 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:50.200 Well, thank you for coming on. 0:00:50.480 --> 0:00:53.401 When I seen your story in the Daily Mail, I 0:00:53.441 --> 0:00:57.201 was intrigued and as I said, I wanted to get. 0:00:57.001 --> 0:00:58.881 You on the podcast so I could talk about it 0:00:58.961 --> 0:00:59.481 in person. 0:00:59.921 --> 0:01:04.280 So before we get into everything that I know about you, 0:01:05.161 --> 0:01:07.840 let's start off about and talk about you as a 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.241 family and growing up and what your family was like. 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.961 It was turbulent and my parents had their own issues, 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.240 you know, and if they tried as much as be could. 0:01:18.681 --> 0:01:23.361 But as a parent myself, I know that if I'm struggling, 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.921 I struggle to be able to give anything back myself. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.440 So it's taken me a long time to understand, to 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.401 understand that that they had their struggles, so it was 0:01:34.441 --> 0:01:38.640 difficult for us all and I don't you know, it's 0:01:38.681 --> 0:01:41.121 not something that I resent them for or anything like that, 0:01:41.241 --> 0:01:46.241 but it's turned me into the parent that I am. 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.481 Maybe a little bit overbearing sometimes, but I would rather 0:01:50.241 --> 0:01:52.761 know that my boy was safe all of the time 0:01:53.041 --> 0:01:53.961 than not. 0:01:54.521 --> 0:01:56.401 Did you have a good childhood don't? 0:01:57.001 --> 0:02:00.401 Yeah? I mean I do remember before before the incident 0:02:00.441 --> 0:02:04.601 with Alex, I remember I was always more of a 0:02:04.641 --> 0:02:07.481 tumble I love being outside digging around in the dirt. 0:02:08.801 --> 0:02:12.161 Myself and my brother. You know, we had a nice 0:02:12.201 --> 0:02:15.641 relationship where we had lots of friends. We used to 0:02:15.721 --> 0:02:17.641 have friends around, We used to go swimming, we used 0:02:17.641 --> 0:02:22.001 to all sorts of stuff. And then slowly things started 0:02:22.041 --> 0:02:25.481 to go downhill. We moved to a different house, and 0:02:25.561 --> 0:02:28.881 slowly things started to go downhill, and then you know, 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.561 what happened with Alex happened, and I don't really remember 0:02:31.561 --> 0:02:33.561 a lot of my childhood after that. I sort of 0:02:34.001 --> 0:02:35.241 became an adult after that. 0:02:35.321 --> 0:02:40.001 If you like, when this happened, you were eight years old, yeah, correct, Yeah, 0:02:40.041 --> 0:02:43.641 and you you're you're had like your parents were. When 0:02:43.641 --> 0:02:46.321 you say that they had their issues. Was it like 0:02:46.761 --> 0:02:50.161 they were kind of separating or they were just what 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:51.321 was going through them. 0:02:51.561 --> 0:02:52.201 At the time. 0:02:52.841 --> 0:02:55.641 Yeah, I mean my dad, he used to work a 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.840 lot to provide for the family. So again it's it's 0:02:59.841 --> 0:03:02.841 from sort of my own experience as a parent. It 0:03:02.921 --> 0:03:07.001 can get very lonely if you don't if you don't 0:03:07.081 --> 0:03:11.081 have people around you, So I think there was just 0:03:11.361 --> 0:03:14.561 looking for love in all the wrong places. Time that 0:03:14.601 --> 0:03:18.201 should have been spent with the concentrating on kids, it wasn't. 0:03:18.561 --> 0:03:23.001 It was either spent elsewhere or them button heads all 0:03:23.041 --> 0:03:26.561 the time. So I mean there was there was. I 0:03:26.601 --> 0:03:29.881 never witnessed any violence there, So that's you know, it 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.720 was just it was not a nice environment to grow 0:03:32.761 --> 0:03:33.881 up in, was it was? 0:03:33.881 --> 0:03:35.521 It was it the kind of like what what you're 0:03:35.521 --> 0:03:38.841 saying is it was there was struggling because of work 0:03:38.921 --> 0:03:41.481 and bills, that kind of that kind of thing. 0:03:41.961 --> 0:03:44.561 That was that what's going on back on I. 0:03:44.481 --> 0:03:49.881 Think, yeah, and not not spending time in the right places, 0:03:49.961 --> 0:03:52.601 you know, not not actually making time for each other. 0:03:53.081 --> 0:03:56.601 It was still very much and this was only you know, 0:03:56.881 --> 0:03:59.121 twenty years ago, but it was still very much the 0:03:59.161 --> 0:04:01.041 man goes to work, the woman's stays at home and 0:04:01.241 --> 0:04:05.401 looks after the children. Well, my mother, you know, she 0:04:05.401 --> 0:04:08.121 she had her own aspiration, She had around things that 0:04:08.201 --> 0:04:10.961 she wanted to do, and you know, I think she 0:04:11.001 --> 0:04:13.281 would never say that we were ever a hindrance to her. 0:04:13.361 --> 0:04:16.481 But I don't ever think that her life was was 0:04:16.521 --> 0:04:18.921 how she wanted her life to be, you know. So 0:04:19.721 --> 0:04:21.961 it was then a knock on effect for the rest 0:04:21.961 --> 0:04:22.561 of the family. 0:04:23.681 --> 0:04:24.281 Enjoyed school. 0:04:24.481 --> 0:04:26.561 No, I was bullied all the way through school because 0:04:26.601 --> 0:04:30.801 I was a quiet, weird one. W yeah, but mainly 0:04:31.681 --> 0:04:34.801 in school. So from when I was in first school. 0:04:35.081 --> 0:04:38.641 This is what this is what's always bothered me. It 0:04:38.681 --> 0:04:41.001 was it was mainly all with boys who used to 0:04:41.041 --> 0:04:43.640 do it. And back in school, we were taught even 0:04:43.681 --> 0:04:46.001 at that age, well if a boy, you know, just 0:04:46.041 --> 0:04:48.121 something to you, it's because he likes you, if he's 0:04:48.201 --> 0:04:50.481 been horrible to you, if he punches you, because he 0:04:50.641 --> 0:04:54.041 likes you, and it's all bullshit. You know. I was 0:04:54.121 --> 0:04:57.721 fucking battered in school. I had my head braided off walls, 0:04:57.801 --> 0:05:00.041 I had my you know, I was punched in the face. 0:05:00.161 --> 0:05:02.960 I was It was horrible. I was so scared to 0:05:03.001 --> 0:05:06.760 tell anyone because I knew it would get worse. And 0:05:07.081 --> 0:05:10.080 it wasn't until there was one day I had my 0:05:10.121 --> 0:05:12.601 head smashed off a wall in first school. I was 0:05:12.641 --> 0:05:16.641 only little, but myself and my friend and my mother 0:05:16.721 --> 0:05:19.681 and her mother had gone swimming, and I'd cut the 0:05:19.681 --> 0:05:21.681 fringe in to try and hide. I mean, I've got 0:05:21.681 --> 0:05:24.361 a huge forehead as it is, but like this bruise, 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:28.640 it covered everything, and so I'd cut the fringe in 0:05:28.761 --> 0:05:32.641 to try and hide it, and my mum went ape shit, 0:05:33.281 --> 0:05:35.640 but I couldn't tell her why I'd done it, And 0:05:35.681 --> 0:05:38.081 it wasn't until we'd gone swimming and my friend had 0:05:38.121 --> 0:05:40.721 pulled her into the changing room and said, look at 0:05:40.721 --> 0:05:45.281 her forehead. She was hit today at school. So my 0:05:45.401 --> 0:05:48.281 mum thought that it was and it was the right 0:05:48.281 --> 0:05:50.960 thing to go on and confront what was happening. But 0:05:51.361 --> 0:05:53.921 it did make things so much worse because even the 0:05:53.961 --> 0:05:55.961 teachers back then they didn't really give a shit either. 0:05:56.001 --> 0:05:57.721 It was just something else that they had to deal 0:05:57.761 --> 0:06:00.521 with because of the way that they had been brought up. 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.520 They didn't really see issue with it either. You know, 0:06:04.601 --> 0:06:07.481 it was it's difficult, But then it got to middle 0:06:07.481 --> 0:06:11.561 school and it was more because I've been bullied all 0:06:11.561 --> 0:06:13.201 the way through first school. I didn't really have a 0:06:13.281 --> 0:06:17.001 voice then either. And then I started middle school and 0:06:18.401 --> 0:06:20.440 it was around that time Alex days what he did, 0:06:20.481 --> 0:06:23.001 so it just got made everything so much worse. 0:06:24.481 --> 0:06:26.481 I've never seen that in that when I went to school, 0:06:26.521 --> 0:06:29.521 you know, I never liked seeing gills get bullied. 0:06:31.801 --> 0:06:34.161 And that's that's that's so like it was awful. 0:06:36.921 --> 0:06:39.320 No, it's awful, and it's this is the thing. The 0:06:39.361 --> 0:06:44.121 majority of the time I have ever been physically attacked, 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.400 it's been by men from a very very young age. 0:06:47.681 --> 0:06:52.361 So I can handle myself. Trust me, I can handle 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.121 myself because I've had to. But you shouldn't ever have to, 0:06:55.761 --> 0:06:58.601 especially as a woman like you shouldn't ever have to 0:06:58.641 --> 0:07:01.281 be able to hand yourself, handle yourself against a man ever. 0:07:02.721 --> 0:07:07.681 But then in middle school, it it started in middle school. 0:07:07.721 --> 0:07:12.841 It was more so than girls, and it was People 0:07:12.841 --> 0:07:14.561 always used to say, well, it's a jealousy thing. It's 0:07:14.561 --> 0:07:19.161 a jealousy thing. But I because of everything that's already happened, 0:07:19.881 --> 0:07:24.121 I never saw anything about myself that could possibly ever 0:07:24.241 --> 0:07:28.961 make anybody jealous. You know, it was it was it 0:07:29.041 --> 0:07:32.481 was hard because you end up with no friends, you 0:07:32.521 --> 0:07:36.521 do end up feeling weird and you end up with nobody. 0:07:37.881 --> 0:07:40.321 And then it got to high school and it was 0:07:40.441 --> 0:07:43.561 just it was exactly the same. But because of things 0:07:43.601 --> 0:07:47.561 that have happened in my family life and because of 0:07:47.681 --> 0:07:52.201 how small the place was, I also then got lots 0:07:52.201 --> 0:07:56.161 of shit for for things that my parents had done 0:07:56.641 --> 0:08:02.081 because I was then in school with people who whose children, 0:08:03.041 --> 0:08:05.681 you know, their parents knew what was going on, and 0:08:05.721 --> 0:08:08.721 it was all gossipy, gossipy, So I've got a load 0:08:08.761 --> 0:08:11.521 of ship for that as well. So it was just 0:08:11.601 --> 0:08:13.921 it was never a very nice experience. I couldn't wait 0:08:13.961 --> 0:08:16.561 to leave. Everyone sair school is the best days of 0:08:16.601 --> 0:08:17.601 your life. That's fucking not. 0:08:18.361 --> 0:08:21.041 That's so weird, because the schooling for me was the 0:08:21.041 --> 0:08:23.321 best days of my life. And as I said, I've 0:08:23.321 --> 0:08:26.121 seen a lot of cat fights in school and like 0:08:26.241 --> 0:08:29.481 guys haven't fights too, but never seen a guy hit 0:08:29.481 --> 0:08:33.001 a girl and if he did, we would fucking crack 0:08:33.081 --> 0:08:33.361 him one. 0:08:34.001 --> 0:08:37.601 But like, that's it was. It was it a little 0:08:37.601 --> 0:08:38.761 country town, was it is? 0:08:38.841 --> 0:08:38.881 It? 0:08:39.001 --> 0:08:40.841 Is that where you were living at the time. 0:08:41.521 --> 0:08:43.881 Yeah, I mean I still live up here, which is 0:08:43.881 --> 0:08:46.441 why I can't wait to get away. My family don't 0:08:46.481 --> 0:08:50.801 understand it. Well, Yeah, honestly, they're like, well, well we 0:08:50.961 --> 0:08:52.521 like living here. I say, yeah, but you've had a 0:08:52.561 --> 0:08:56.121 totally different experience to me. You know, I've had all 0:08:56.161 --> 0:08:58.521 sorts and more that we'll talk about happen up here. 0:08:58.601 --> 0:09:02.961 So but it is, it's very much if they don't know, 0:09:03.041 --> 0:09:07.521 you've ald make up whatever and people there are so 0:09:07.641 --> 0:09:10.921 many enablers, and there's so many places like this as well. 0:09:11.001 --> 0:09:13.001 I mean it isn't just here. I'll get lots of 0:09:13.001 --> 0:09:18.681 ship saying that about here now, but it's true, it's true, 0:09:18.841 --> 0:09:24.521 and there are so many enablers because you know, when 0:09:24.561 --> 0:09:27.281 it comes to smaller places, it's like these people are 0:09:27.401 --> 0:09:31.321 big fish and little ponds. So I have lots of 0:09:32.201 --> 0:09:34.721 lots of followers, lots of people who think that there's 0:09:34.721 --> 0:09:36.481 something and they're absolutely nothing. 0:09:36.721 --> 0:09:38.321 What was what was the main What was the main 0:09:38.361 --> 0:09:40.641 reason why they picked on you? What was what was he? 0:09:40.961 --> 0:09:42.681 Because I was quiet because I never stood up for 0:09:42.721 --> 0:09:44.881 myself because I never had a voice, I never I 0:09:44.961 --> 0:09:48.361 never stood up for myself ever, wow, Because it was 0:09:48.521 --> 0:09:50.681 like it was an easy target because like. 0:09:51.321 --> 0:09:53.041 Like I remember when I was in school and if 0:09:53.081 --> 0:09:56.401 I went overseas to like Spain or Greece, when I 0:09:56.441 --> 0:09:58.721 was a kid that came back brown. I remember that 0:09:58.841 --> 0:10:00.921 I was teased for being like they say, you know, 0:10:00.961 --> 0:10:03.321 the p wed to me, you're packing and all like that. 0:10:03.481 --> 0:10:06.961 But I wasn't but you because they didn't have a suntan. 0:10:07.121 --> 0:10:10.001 I was. I would, I would get fucking abused. 0:10:10.441 --> 0:10:13.361 But I'm trying to picture you as as a little kid, 0:10:13.721 --> 0:10:16.001 and I just can't see why they picked on you. 0:10:15.801 --> 0:10:18.881 Because I was quiet, because and again because of things 0:10:18.921 --> 0:10:21.241 that happened with my family. You know, it's like it 0:10:21.321 --> 0:10:24.761 really is ancestral purses. Things do get passed down, and. 0:10:24.801 --> 0:10:26.721 So what was the main issue there with the family. 0:10:26.841 --> 0:10:28.201 There must have been something massive. 0:10:28.641 --> 0:10:31.881 Like I said, people looked for love in the wrong places. 0:10:33.801 --> 0:10:38.041 Wow, okay, so it was. It was difficult, not good. 0:10:38.561 --> 0:10:42.241 So describe and talk me through your next door neighbor 0:10:42.281 --> 0:10:43.361 before anything happened. 0:10:43.561 --> 0:10:47.321 Oh so, Alex, he wasn't actually my next door neighbor. 0:10:47.521 --> 0:10:50.881 He lived at the opposite end of the street to us, 0:10:50.881 --> 0:10:54.121 like only a few houses right now. Before it happened, 0:10:54.361 --> 0:10:56.281 there was a there was a group of us, you know, 0:10:56.361 --> 0:10:59.081 from all all different ages. It was a really it's 0:10:59.081 --> 0:11:02.201 a really small village. And back then there was lots 0:11:02.201 --> 0:11:04.761 and loads of kids. It was a really family orientated 0:11:05.361 --> 0:11:08.801 So there was kids from you know, my brother's age 0:11:08.801 --> 0:11:11.881 at the time, four or five, right up until Alex's age, 0:11:11.881 --> 0:11:15.401 and we wouldn't all necessarily play out together always at 0:11:15.401 --> 0:11:18.361 the same time, but there was always a handful of 0:11:18.441 --> 0:11:24.121 us from each age range. And there was him and 0:11:24.241 --> 0:11:27.561 two older boys. And these two older boys they lived 0:11:27.561 --> 0:11:29.721 across the road from me, and they were the main 0:11:29.761 --> 0:11:32.601 ones that he was friendly with. The two who lived 0:11:32.601 --> 0:11:36.401 across the road from me, they were nice, you know, 0:11:37.241 --> 0:11:41.641 they were funny. They were like older brothers, who who 0:11:41.721 --> 0:11:47.921 you could trust, who you could you know, they yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:11:47.961 --> 0:11:50.521 They looked after me. I was safe with them. But 0:11:50.641 --> 0:11:54.201 then Alex, he was just very different. And I know 0:11:54.281 --> 0:11:58.281 it sounds strange, but you can always tell by somebody's eyes, 0:11:58.321 --> 0:12:01.201 I think. And there was always just something that was 0:12:01.241 --> 0:12:03.521 never quite right about him because he was always so 0:12:03.761 --> 0:12:08.081 quiet compared to He was quiet around the little ones, 0:12:08.321 --> 0:12:10.721 the younger ones, but when he was with the older ones, 0:12:11.121 --> 0:12:15.881 he would be fine. Now, whether that's because he can't 0:12:15.881 --> 0:12:17.761 say that you didn't know how to act around younger 0:12:17.801 --> 0:12:20.401 children because he had younger siblings himself, or a younger 0:12:20.401 --> 0:12:24.081 sibling himself. Like I said, he was more of an 0:12:24.121 --> 0:12:26.801 observer rather than anything else. He would always sit back 0:12:26.801 --> 0:12:28.961 and he would listen to what was going on. But 0:12:29.761 --> 0:12:33.001 there was times that he would try to be protective 0:12:33.161 --> 0:12:36.841 like the other ones. But it was never to be creepy. Yes, 0:12:36.881 --> 0:12:39.201 it was never ever the same. There was always something 0:12:39.241 --> 0:12:40.761 about him. And that's what I said to him in 0:12:40.801 --> 0:12:43.281 one of our messages. You've always always had a side 0:12:43.281 --> 0:12:45.761 to you, and he always has and he always. 0:12:45.481 --> 0:12:50.281 Will describe that that that day because he went to 0:12:50.321 --> 0:12:52.801 the he went to like the for a walk in 0:12:52.801 --> 0:12:53.881 the woods or something like that. 0:12:54.121 --> 0:12:55.761 He's always hang out or something like that. 0:12:55.841 --> 0:13:00.721 Yeah, yeah, we went for a bike ride and it's 0:13:00.801 --> 0:13:04.601 literally just five minutes away. And yeah, he came to 0:13:04.641 --> 0:13:07.161 call on and we went out for a bike ride 0:13:07.201 --> 0:13:09.681 myself from my brother, and it was just, you know, 0:13:09.961 --> 0:13:15.161 another normal summer's day. If we weren't out on the bikes, 0:13:15.161 --> 0:13:16.561 were in the garden, or I was out on the 0:13:16.601 --> 0:13:19.241 horses with my friend. You know, we just it was 0:13:19.361 --> 0:13:21.801 just a normal day as far as I was concerned. 0:13:21.841 --> 0:13:24.721 And we got to the woods and there's there was 0:13:24.721 --> 0:13:27.721 a there's a gate, so we left our bikes at 0:13:27.761 --> 0:13:30.481 the gate and as you go through, it's a little 0:13:30.561 --> 0:13:33.881 narrow path and at the time it was just covered 0:13:34.161 --> 0:13:37.121 covered in nettles. I mean, I'm only five to three now, 0:13:37.161 --> 0:13:39.321 so when I was eight, I was a very short ast, 0:13:39.481 --> 0:13:43.001 so you know, I didn't want to be so I 0:13:43.041 --> 0:13:45.441 was a bit nervous. My brother he couldn't give a task. 0:13:45.561 --> 0:13:49.921 He was away, and and that was when Alex had said, 0:13:49.961 --> 0:13:53.281 you know, I'll give you a piggyback. And as a child, 0:13:53.561 --> 0:13:57.441 you don't ever ever, ever, I didn't even know what 0:13:57.641 --> 0:13:59.441 he was going to do to and I didn't know 0:13:59.521 --> 0:14:03.801 what that was. So as a child you don't necessarily think, 0:14:04.001 --> 0:14:06.601 you don't or you wouldn't necessarily think that a piggyback 0:14:06.681 --> 0:14:09.081 is going to be something abusive and threatening. 0:14:09.201 --> 0:14:11.641 Yeah, well you thought he was gonna. He was been 0:14:11.921 --> 0:14:14.401 he was looking after you, like to say, like I'm gonna, 0:14:14.401 --> 0:14:15.921 I'll help you get over the nettles. 0:14:15.601 --> 0:14:16.081 You know what I mean? 0:14:16.121 --> 0:14:19.401 So yeah, yeah I did, so, Yeah, I wasn't. I know, 0:14:20.241 --> 0:14:23.521 people tell me not call myself now when I say that, 0:14:23.561 --> 0:14:25.681 because I'm talking about it from an adult's point of 0:14:25.761 --> 0:14:28.041 view now, ruts and how I felt as a child 0:14:28.161 --> 0:14:31.401 back then. So yeah, I trusted him. I did that. Yeah, right, 0:14:31.601 --> 0:14:33.121 I just trusted him. 0:14:33.121 --> 0:14:37.241 What so tell me so he before that had he 0:14:37.361 --> 0:14:41.121 shown any signs of doing anything wrong towards you? 0:14:41.161 --> 0:14:44.721 Not that I can remember. I mean there were times, 0:14:44.841 --> 0:14:47.801 you know when and I have talked to polics when 0:14:47.841 --> 0:14:51.361 we would there was a caravan and you know, they 0:14:51.361 --> 0:14:53.761 would try and get us to or he was one 0:14:53.761 --> 0:14:56.161 of them, would try and get us to play Strip 0:14:56.201 --> 0:14:59.921 Parker and the Caravan. It sounds really silly again because 0:14:59.961 --> 0:15:02.841 there were friends. You know, you don't ever, you don't 0:15:02.881 --> 0:15:05.001 ever think that it's going to be a sinister side 0:15:05.081 --> 0:15:10.041 to it, because again, you've never even really really when 0:15:10.041 --> 0:15:12.201 you're a child, yeah. 0:15:12.041 --> 0:15:14.521 Well we're being a kid like that age and doing 0:15:14.521 --> 0:15:17.881 something like that. You're just a kid, so you're just 0:15:17.881 --> 0:15:20.161 doing kid things and you think it's just yeah, okay, 0:15:20.201 --> 0:15:23.401 we're doing we're doing something naughty. But it's not gnawty, 0:15:23.401 --> 0:15:26.321 you know what I mean. Okay, let's you've been yeah, 0:15:26.441 --> 0:15:28.561 and that's all you're thinking. We're all having a bit 0:15:28.561 --> 0:15:30.161 of fun here, and that's it. You don't think no 0:15:30.201 --> 0:15:32.201 one's going to harm you or hurt. 0:15:32.001 --> 0:15:34.281 You, and you don't think you don't think at that 0:15:34.401 --> 0:15:38.401 time either about the age difference and the mental age 0:15:38.441 --> 0:15:42.681 difference between between them. Either, it's not until you get 0:15:42.681 --> 0:15:48.481 to an adult and then you see that was fucking weird, Like, yeah, 0:15:48.641 --> 0:15:49.601 that was weird. 0:15:51.521 --> 0:15:53.601 Yeah, because you look at it and go, why would 0:15:53.641 --> 0:15:55.801 someone that age want to be hanging around with someone 0:15:55.841 --> 0:15:56.281 my age? 0:15:56.961 --> 0:15:59.401 Yeah, and that's that's when you start thinking exactly. 0:15:59.921 --> 0:16:03.641 So, so okay, so's he's about to give you a 0:16:03.681 --> 0:16:04.881 piggyback through the nettles. 0:16:05.121 --> 0:16:07.041 Then what happens? Then? 0:16:08.521 --> 0:16:11.361 So I jumped on his back, and pretty much as 0:16:11.361 --> 0:16:14.881 soon as I jumped on his back, his hands went 0:16:15.081 --> 0:16:22.721 up inside my shorts. And I know it sounds there's 0:16:22.761 --> 0:16:29.081 people and who have been through much much, much more 0:16:29.161 --> 0:16:33.521 awful terrible things, but as a child, because he was 0:16:33.601 --> 0:16:37.521 using his hands and he was inside me, I felt 0:16:37.521 --> 0:16:39.361 like he was trying to snatch my soul from me, 0:16:39.441 --> 0:16:41.681 and he did. He took part of me that day. 0:16:43.281 --> 0:16:48.001 Because he he violated you, He violated you. 0:16:48.641 --> 0:16:52.121 It was just horrible. Yeah yeah it. 0:16:52.721 --> 0:16:53.761 Did you tell him to stop? 0:16:54.001 --> 0:16:56.201 Oh? Yeah, I told him to stop. Yeah, yeah, I 0:16:56.201 --> 0:16:58.041 told him as soon as he put his fingers inside me, 0:16:58.081 --> 0:16:59.721 I told him, Well, as soon as he put his 0:16:59.721 --> 0:17:01.681 fingers up my shorts, hands at my shorts. I told 0:17:01.761 --> 0:17:07.640 him to stop. And what was his reaction, Well, he 0:17:07.721 --> 0:17:08.880 told me he was going to drop me in the 0:17:08.921 --> 0:17:13.360 nettles if I complained, truck me in the nettles if 0:17:13.360 --> 0:17:16.561 I complained about it. So, and you know, back then 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:22.600 as well well even nowadays, children at all to like, yeah, 0:17:23.360 --> 0:17:26.001 not speak unless I've spoken to and just to shut 0:17:26.120 --> 0:17:28.241 up and do as they're told by their elders. So 0:17:28.721 --> 0:17:31.241 because again, like I said before, he was a friend. 0:17:31.281 --> 0:17:35.440 He was somebody I trusted as much as I knew, 0:17:35.561 --> 0:17:37.360 and I felt that it was wrong and he was 0:17:37.481 --> 0:17:42.640 hurting me. Still in my child's brain, I was thinking, well, no, 0:17:43.041 --> 0:17:46.761 it what he's doing, it mustn't be hurting me, because 0:17:47.521 --> 0:17:50.321 nobody who cares about, nobody who's supposed to be your friend, 0:17:50.321 --> 0:17:52.400 would ever do anything like that to you know, would 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:57.360 ever hurt you. So he then molded how I viewed, 0:17:58.521 --> 0:18:01.121 how I should be threaten, what love was since then? 0:18:01.201 --> 0:18:04.360 So he was a bustard, always will be. 0:18:06.041 --> 0:18:09.561 How like, how far was it did he have to 0:18:09.561 --> 0:18:12.081 piggyback you? Was it? Was it a fair distance? 0:18:12.201 --> 0:18:16.400 Or no? I mean it wasn't very far at all. 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:20.760 I would believe that, say, it was a chill wren 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.880 at walk. But when we got to the end, when 0:18:24.921 --> 0:18:29.160 we got to the end of the past, it was 0:18:29.201 --> 0:18:32.920 like a little hill and clearing, and he put me 0:18:32.961 --> 0:18:36.160 down there and he did it again, and it was 0:18:36.201 --> 0:18:38.440 worse that time because he was facing me and I 0:18:38.481 --> 0:18:41.201 could see his fucking face and he. 0:18:41.281 --> 0:18:43.921 Was so he actually put you down on the floor, 0:18:44.681 --> 0:18:46.481 and then while you're standing. 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:50.120 There, and then it again. He sat me on the floor. 0:18:50.120 --> 0:18:51.640 He made me sit down on the floor, and then 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:57.001 he did it again. Yeah, and then ah see this, 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.440 So this is this is what this is why I 0:19:00.441 --> 0:19:03.600 find it difficult because this is the second time where 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.880 I've gone into detail with any body. My parents, my 0:19:06.921 --> 0:19:10.241 friends only found out what you'd done when we were 0:19:10.241 --> 0:19:14.521 in court, so I have never So when I spoke 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.080 to Phil and I did my video interview with Phil 0:19:18.201 --> 0:19:22.640 Trotter as a detective who was doing the case, it 0:19:22.721 --> 0:19:25.761 was so fucking difficult because when Alex was giving me 0:19:25.761 --> 0:19:30.400 a piggyback, I had to describe it all and he 0:19:30.561 --> 0:19:34.921 wasn't moving his hands. He was still, so he had 0:19:34.921 --> 0:19:36.680 his fingers inside me and he was still when he 0:19:36.721 --> 0:19:38.400 was giving me a piggyback. But then when he sat 0:19:38.441 --> 0:19:41.041 me on the floor. That was when it was different, 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:46.001 you know, and there was movement and and it was, oh, 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:47.401 I don't know, I don't know. 0:19:47.801 --> 0:19:49.921 It was Did you want to scream? 0:19:50.241 --> 0:19:53.480 Yeah? Yeah I did. I wanted to scream out because 0:19:53.521 --> 0:19:55.881 he had threatened to drop me when he was doing 0:19:55.921 --> 0:19:59.801 what he was doing beforehand, I knew that what he 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:03.721 was doing was wrong because if he had stopped, if 0:20:03.721 --> 0:20:07.640 he had listened to me, then I would have you know, 0:20:07.681 --> 0:20:10.600 I felt safe, But I didn't feel safe. I knew 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.041 then I wasn't. I didn't feel safe the second time. 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.080 It didn't continue for very long either, And it only 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.600 didn't continue for very long, I think because my brother 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:21.441 he made a noise and he came back. 0:20:22.481 --> 0:20:24.321 You didn't You didn't want to tell You didn't you 0:20:24.360 --> 0:20:26.961 didn't think you know what, I don't care what you say, 0:20:27.001 --> 0:20:28.640 I'm going to tell someone, or you. 0:20:29.201 --> 0:20:29.880 Were that scared. 0:20:30.521 --> 0:20:32.680 He threatened to kill my brother. So at the time, 0:20:33.201 --> 0:20:39.080 with everything that was going on at home, my brother 0:20:39.360 --> 0:20:45.121 was my best friend, you know, and what happens, if 0:20:45.120 --> 0:20:47.680 he had hurt them, that would have been on me. 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:52.680 Then I would never ever let anything happen to you 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:59.281 or whatever. Never, So I've always been like that. Thought 0:20:59.360 --> 0:21:02.080 was brother to protect other people than myself though, so 0:21:04.921 --> 0:21:09.520 I did, and I didn't tell because I didn't want 0:21:09.561 --> 0:21:10.841 him to be hurt. 0:21:11.241 --> 0:21:14.441 What what happened as you walked off? Did he walk 0:21:14.521 --> 0:21:19.440 with you, Alex? Or did he just h Yeah, like 0:21:19.521 --> 0:21:20.281 nothing happened. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:26.521 Yeah, nothing has happened. But again I can't remember even 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:28.600 walking back through the front door when I got home. 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.880 He took a lot from me that day, a lot. 0:21:34.761 --> 0:21:36.761 But yeah, afterwards, it was all just a bit of 0:21:36.801 --> 0:21:37.801 a blur really. 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.801