Speaker 1: Apogee Production.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the
Speaker 2: Muscle comments.
Speaker 3: In this episode, I speak with Katie Burns, who shares
Speaker 3: her story of surviving abuse.
Speaker 1: I was so scared to tell anyone because Daniel, We'll
Speaker 1: just get worried different pet officers and how many would
Speaker 1: being investigative. And I had a breakdown. But I think
Speaker 1: listen that I was right and crawling about it and
Speaker 1: very crops up. I'm gonna have to kill it.
Speaker 4: I'll always leave right, you know, because then I don't
Speaker 4: even have the half years of freedom.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for coming on.
Speaker 3: When I seen your story in the Daily Mail, I
Speaker 3: was intrigued and as I said, I wanted to get.
Speaker 2: You on the podcast so I could talk about it
Speaker 2: in person.
Speaker 3: So before we get into everything that I know about you,
Speaker 3: let's start off about and talk about you as a
Speaker 3: family and growing up and what your family was like.
Speaker 1: It was turbulent and my parents had their own issues,
Speaker 1: you know, and if they tried as much as be could.
Speaker 1: But as a parent myself, I know that if I'm struggling,
Speaker 1: I struggle to be able to give anything back myself.
Speaker 1: So it's taken me a long time to understand, to
Speaker 1: understand that that they had their struggles, so it was
Speaker 1: difficult for us all and I don't you know, it's
Speaker 1: not something that I resent them for or anything like that,
Speaker 1: but it's turned me into the parent that I am.
Speaker 1: Maybe a little bit overbearing sometimes, but I would rather
Speaker 1: know that my boy was safe all of the time
Speaker 1: than not.
Speaker 2: Did you have a good childhood don't?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I do remember before before the incident
Speaker 1: with Alex, I remember I was always more of a
Speaker 1: tumble I love being outside digging around in the dirt.
Speaker 1: Myself and my brother. You know, we had a nice
Speaker 1: relationship where we had lots of friends. We used to
Speaker 1: have friends around, We used to go swimming, we used
Speaker 1: to all sorts of stuff. And then slowly things started
Speaker 1: to go downhill. We moved to a different house, and
Speaker 1: slowly things started to go downhill, and then you know,
Speaker 1: what happened with Alex happened, and I don't really remember
Speaker 1: a lot of my childhood after that. I sort of
Speaker 1: became an adult after that.
Speaker 3: If you like, when this happened, you were eight years old, yeah, correct, Yeah,
Speaker 3: and you you're you're had like your parents were. When
Speaker 3: you say that they had their issues. Was it like
Speaker 3: they were kind of separating or they were just what
Speaker 3: was going through them.
Speaker 2: At the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean my dad, he used to work a
Speaker 1: lot to provide for the family. So again it's it's
Speaker 1: from sort of my own experience as a parent. It
Speaker 1: can get very lonely if you don't if you don't
Speaker 1: have people around you, So I think there was just
Speaker 1: looking for love in all the wrong places. Time that
Speaker 1: should have been spent with the concentrating on kids, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It was either spent elsewhere or them button heads all
Speaker 1: the time. So I mean there was there was. I
Speaker 1: never witnessed any violence there, So that's you know, it
Speaker 1: was just it was not a nice environment to grow
Speaker 1: up in, was it was?
Speaker 3: It was it the kind of like what what you're
Speaker 3: saying is it was there was struggling because of work
Speaker 3: and bills, that kind of that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: That was that what's going on back on I.
Speaker 1: Think, yeah, and not not spending time in the right places,
Speaker 1: you know, not not actually making time for each other.
Speaker 1: It was still very much and this was only you know,
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, but it was still very much the
Speaker 1: man goes to work, the woman's stays at home and
Speaker 1: looks after the children. Well, my mother, you know, she
Speaker 1: she had her own aspiration, She had around things that
Speaker 1: she wanted to do, and you know, I think she
Speaker 1: would never say that we were ever a hindrance to her.
Speaker 1: But I don't ever think that her life was was
Speaker 1: how she wanted her life to be, you know. So
Speaker 1: it was then a knock on effect for the rest
Speaker 1: of the family.
Speaker 2: Enjoyed school.
Speaker 1: No, I was bullied all the way through school because
Speaker 1: I was a quiet, weird one. W yeah, but mainly
Speaker 1: in school. So from when I was in first school.
Speaker 1: This is what this is what's always bothered me. It
Speaker 1: was it was mainly all with boys who used to
Speaker 1: do it. And back in school, we were taught even
Speaker 1: at that age, well if a boy, you know, just
Speaker 1: something to you, it's because he likes you, if he's
Speaker 1: been horrible to you, if he punches you, because he
Speaker 1: likes you, and it's all bullshit. You know. I was
Speaker 1: fucking battered in school. I had my head braided off walls,
Speaker 1: I had my you know, I was punched in the face.
Speaker 1: I was It was horrible. I was so scared to
Speaker 1: tell anyone because I knew it would get worse. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't until there was one day I had my
Speaker 1: head smashed off a wall in first school. I was
Speaker 1: only little, but myself and my friend and my mother
Speaker 1: and her mother had gone swimming, and I'd cut the
Speaker 1: fringe in to try and hide. I mean, I've got
Speaker 1: a huge forehead as it is, but like this bruise,
Speaker 1: it covered everything, and so I'd cut the fringe in
Speaker 1: to try and hide it, and my mum went ape shit,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't tell her why I'd done it, And
Speaker 1: it wasn't until we'd gone swimming and my friend had
Speaker 1: pulled her into the changing room and said, look at
Speaker 1: her forehead. She was hit today at school. So my
Speaker 1: mum thought that it was and it was the right
Speaker 1: thing to go on and confront what was happening. But
Speaker 1: it did make things so much worse because even the
Speaker 1: teachers back then they didn't really give a shit either.
Speaker 1: It was just something else that they had to deal
Speaker 1: with because of the way that they had been brought up.
Speaker 1: They didn't really see issue with it either. You know,
Speaker 1: it was it's difficult, But then it got to middle
Speaker 1: school and it was more because I've been bullied all
Speaker 1: the way through first school. I didn't really have a
Speaker 1: voice then either. And then I started middle school and
Speaker 1: it was around that time Alex days what he did,
Speaker 1: so it just got made everything so much worse.
Speaker 3: I've never seen that in that when I went to school,
Speaker 3: you know, I never liked seeing gills get bullied.
Speaker 2: And that's that's that's so like it was awful.
Speaker 1: No, it's awful, and it's this is the thing. The
Speaker 1: majority of the time I have ever been physically attacked,
Speaker 1: it's been by men from a very very young age.
Speaker 1: So I can handle myself. Trust me, I can handle
Speaker 1: myself because I've had to. But you shouldn't ever have to,
Speaker 1: especially as a woman like you shouldn't ever have to
Speaker 1: be able to hand yourself, handle yourself against a man ever.
Speaker 1: But then in middle school, it it started in middle school.
Speaker 1: It was more so than girls, and it was People
Speaker 1: always used to say, well, it's a jealousy thing. It's
Speaker 1: a jealousy thing. But I because of everything that's already happened,
Speaker 1: I never saw anything about myself that could possibly ever
Speaker 1: make anybody jealous. You know, it was it was it
Speaker 1: was hard because you end up with no friends, you
Speaker 1: do end up feeling weird and you end up with nobody.
Speaker 1: And then it got to high school and it was
Speaker 1: just it was exactly the same. But because of things
Speaker 1: that have happened in my family life and because of
Speaker 1: how small the place was, I also then got lots
Speaker 1: of shit for for things that my parents had done
Speaker 1: because I was then in school with people who whose children,
Speaker 1: you know, their parents knew what was going on, and
Speaker 1: it was all gossipy, gossipy, So I've got a load
Speaker 1: of ship for that as well. So it was just
Speaker 1: it was never a very nice experience. I couldn't wait
Speaker 1: to leave. Everyone sair school is the best days of
Speaker 1: your life. That's fucking not.
Speaker 3: That's so weird, because the schooling for me was the
Speaker 3: best days of my life. And as I said, I've
Speaker 3: seen a lot of cat fights in school and like
Speaker 3: guys haven't fights too, but never seen a guy hit
Speaker 3: a girl and if he did, we would fucking crack
Speaker 3: him one.
Speaker 2: But like, that's it was. It was it a little
Speaker 2: country town, was it is?
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 2: Is that where you were living at the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I still live up here, which is
Speaker 1: why I can't wait to get away. My family don't
Speaker 1: understand it. Well, Yeah, honestly, they're like, well, well we
Speaker 1: like living here. I say, yeah, but you've had a
Speaker 1: totally different experience to me. You know, I've had all
Speaker 1: sorts and more that we'll talk about happen up here.
Speaker 1: So but it is, it's very much if they don't know,
Speaker 1: you've ald make up whatever and people there are so
Speaker 1: many enablers, and there's so many places like this as well.
Speaker 1: I mean it isn't just here. I'll get lots of
Speaker 1: ship saying that about here now, but it's true, it's true,
Speaker 1: and there are so many enablers because you know, when
Speaker 1: it comes to smaller places, it's like these people are
Speaker 1: big fish and little ponds. So I have lots of
Speaker 1: lots of followers, lots of people who think that there's
Speaker 1: something and they're absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2: What was what was the main What was the main
Speaker 2: reason why they picked on you? What was what was he?
Speaker 1: Because I was quiet because I never stood up for
Speaker 1: myself because I never had a voice, I never I
Speaker 1: never stood up for myself ever, wow, Because it was
Speaker 1: like it was an easy target because like.
Speaker 3: Like I remember when I was in school and if
Speaker 3: I went overseas to like Spain or Greece, when I
Speaker 3: was a kid that came back brown. I remember that
Speaker 3: I was teased for being like they say, you know,
Speaker 3: the p wed to me, you're packing and all like that.
Speaker 3: But I wasn't but you because they didn't have a suntan.
Speaker 2: I was. I would, I would get fucking abused.
Speaker 3: But I'm trying to picture you as as a little kid,
Speaker 3: and I just can't see why they picked on you.
Speaker 1: Because I was quiet, because and again because of things
Speaker 1: that happened with my family. You know, it's like it
Speaker 1: really is ancestral purses. Things do get passed down, and.
Speaker 2: So what was the main issue there with the family.
Speaker 2: There must have been something massive.
Speaker 1: Like I said, people looked for love in the wrong places.
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, so it was. It was difficult, not good.
Speaker 3: So describe and talk me through your next door neighbor
Speaker 3: before anything happened.
Speaker 1: Oh so, Alex, he wasn't actually my next door neighbor.
Speaker 1: He lived at the opposite end of the street to us,
Speaker 1: like only a few houses right now. Before it happened,
Speaker 1: there was a there was a group of us, you know,
Speaker 1: from all all different ages. It was a really it's
Speaker 1: a really small village. And back then there was lots
Speaker 1: and loads of kids. It was a really family orientated
Speaker 1: So there was kids from you know, my brother's age
Speaker 1: at the time, four or five, right up until Alex's age,
Speaker 1: and we wouldn't all necessarily play out together always at
Speaker 1: the same time, but there was always a handful of
Speaker 1: us from each age range. And there was him and
Speaker 1: two older boys. And these two older boys they lived
Speaker 1: across the road from me, and they were the main
Speaker 1: ones that he was friendly with. The two who lived
Speaker 1: across the road from me, they were nice, you know,
Speaker 1: they were funny. They were like older brothers, who who
Speaker 1: you could trust, who you could you know, they yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: They looked after me. I was safe with them. But
Speaker 1: then Alex, he was just very different. And I know
Speaker 1: it sounds strange, but you can always tell by somebody's eyes,
Speaker 1: I think. And there was always just something that was
Speaker 1: never quite right about him because he was always so
Speaker 1: quiet compared to He was quiet around the little ones,
Speaker 1: the younger ones, but when he was with the older ones,
Speaker 1: he would be fine. Now, whether that's because he can't
Speaker 1: say that you didn't know how to act around younger
Speaker 1: children because he had younger siblings himself, or a younger
Speaker 1: sibling himself. Like I said, he was more of an
Speaker 1: observer rather than anything else. He would always sit back
Speaker 1: and he would listen to what was going on. But
Speaker 1: there was times that he would try to be protective
Speaker 1: like the other ones. But it was never to be creepy. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was never ever the same. There was always something
Speaker 1: about him. And that's what I said to him in
Speaker 1: one of our messages. You've always always had a side
Speaker 1: to you, and he always has and he always.
Speaker 3: Will describe that that that day because he went to
Speaker 3: the he went to like the for a walk in
Speaker 3: the woods or something like that.
Speaker 2: He's always hang out or something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we went for a bike ride and it's
Speaker 1: literally just five minutes away. And yeah, he came to
Speaker 1: call on and we went out for a bike ride
Speaker 1: myself from my brother, and it was just, you know,
Speaker 1: another normal summer's day. If we weren't out on the bikes,
Speaker 1: were in the garden, or I was out on the
Speaker 1: horses with my friend. You know, we just it was
Speaker 1: just a normal day as far as I was concerned.
Speaker 1: And we got to the woods and there's there was
Speaker 1: a there's a gate, so we left our bikes at
Speaker 1: the gate and as you go through, it's a little
Speaker 1: narrow path and at the time it was just covered
Speaker 1: covered in nettles. I mean, I'm only five to three now,
Speaker 1: so when I was eight, I was a very short ast,
Speaker 1: so you know, I didn't want to be so I
Speaker 1: was a bit nervous. My brother he couldn't give a task.
Speaker 1: He was away, and and that was when Alex had said,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll give you a piggyback. And as a child,
Speaker 1: you don't ever ever, ever, I didn't even know what
Speaker 1: he was going to do to and I didn't know
Speaker 1: what that was. So as a child you don't necessarily think,
Speaker 1: you don't or you wouldn't necessarily think that a piggyback
Speaker 1: is going to be something abusive and threatening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you thought he was gonna. He was been
Speaker 3: he was looking after you, like to say, like I'm gonna,
Speaker 3: I'll help you get over the nettles.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah I did, so, Yeah, I wasn't. I know,
Speaker 1: people tell me not call myself now when I say that,
Speaker 1: because I'm talking about it from an adult's point of
Speaker 1: view now, ruts and how I felt as a child
Speaker 1: back then. So yeah, I trusted him. I did that. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: I just trusted him.
Speaker 3: What so tell me so he before that had he
Speaker 3: shown any signs of doing anything wrong towards you?
Speaker 1: Not that I can remember. I mean there were times,
Speaker 1: you know when and I have talked to polics when
Speaker 1: we would there was a caravan and you know, they
Speaker 1: would try and get us to or he was one
Speaker 1: of them, would try and get us to play Strip
Speaker 1: Parker and the Caravan. It sounds really silly again because
Speaker 1: there were friends. You know, you don't ever, you don't
Speaker 1: ever think that it's going to be a sinister side
Speaker 1: to it, because again, you've never even really really when
Speaker 1: you're a child, yeah.
Speaker 3: Well we're being a kid like that age and doing
Speaker 3: something like that. You're just a kid, so you're just
Speaker 3: doing kid things and you think it's just yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: we're doing we're doing something naughty. But it's not gnawty,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Okay, let's you've been yeah,
Speaker 3: and that's all you're thinking. We're all having a bit
Speaker 3: of fun here, and that's it. You don't think no
Speaker 3: one's going to harm you or hurt.
Speaker 1: You, and you don't think you don't think at that
Speaker 1: time either about the age difference and the mental age
Speaker 1: difference between between them. Either, it's not until you get
Speaker 1: to an adult and then you see that was fucking weird, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you look at it and go, why would
Speaker 3: someone that age want to be hanging around with someone
Speaker 3: my age?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's when you start thinking exactly.
Speaker 3: So, so okay, so's he's about to give you a
Speaker 3: piggyback through the nettles.
Speaker 2: Then what happens? Then?
Speaker 1: So I jumped on his back, and pretty much as
Speaker 1: soon as I jumped on his back, his hands went
Speaker 1: up inside my shorts. And I know it sounds there's
Speaker 1: people and who have been through much much, much more
Speaker 1: awful terrible things, but as a child, because he was
Speaker 1: using his hands and he was inside me, I felt
Speaker 1: like he was trying to snatch my soul from me,
Speaker 1: and he did. He took part of me that day.
Speaker 2: Because he he violated you, He violated you.
Speaker 1: It was just horrible. Yeah yeah it.
Speaker 2: Did you tell him to stop?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I told him to stop. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: told him as soon as he put his fingers inside me,
Speaker 1: I told him, Well, as soon as he put his
Speaker 1: fingers up my shorts, hands at my shorts. I told
Speaker 1: him to stop. And what was his reaction, Well, he
Speaker 1: told me he was going to drop me in the
Speaker 1: nettles if I complained, truck me in the nettles if
Speaker 1: I complained about it. So, and you know, back then
Speaker 1: as well well even nowadays, children at all to like, yeah,
Speaker 1: not speak unless I've spoken to and just to shut
Speaker 1: up and do as they're told by their elders. So
Speaker 1: because again, like I said before, he was a friend.
Speaker 1: He was somebody I trusted as much as I knew,
Speaker 1: and I felt that it was wrong and he was
Speaker 1: hurting me. Still in my child's brain, I was thinking, well, no,
Speaker 1: it what he's doing, it mustn't be hurting me, because
Speaker 1: nobody who cares about, nobody who's supposed to be your friend,
Speaker 1: would ever do anything like that to you know, would
Speaker 1: ever hurt you. So he then molded how I viewed,
Speaker 1: how I should be threaten, what love was since then?
Speaker 1: So he was a bustard, always will be.
Speaker 2: How like, how far was it did he have to
Speaker 2: piggyback you? Was it? Was it a fair distance?
Speaker 1: Or no? I mean it wasn't very far at all.
Speaker 1: I would believe that, say, it was a chill wren
Speaker 1: at walk. But when we got to the end, when
Speaker 1: we got to the end of the past, it was
Speaker 1: like a little hill and clearing, and he put me
Speaker 1: down there and he did it again, and it was
Speaker 1: worse that time because he was facing me and I
Speaker 1: could see his fucking face and he.
Speaker 3: Was so he actually put you down on the floor,
Speaker 3: and then while you're standing.
Speaker 1: There, and then it again. He sat me on the floor.
Speaker 1: He made me sit down on the floor, and then
Speaker 1: he did it again. Yeah, and then ah see this,
Speaker 1: So this is this is what this is why I
Speaker 1: find it difficult because this is the second time where
Speaker 1: I've gone into detail with any body. My parents, my
Speaker 1: friends only found out what you'd done when we were
Speaker 1: in court, so I have never So when I spoke
Speaker 1: to Phil and I did my video interview with Phil
Speaker 1: Trotter as a detective who was doing the case, it
Speaker 1: was so fucking difficult because when Alex was giving me
Speaker 1: a piggyback, I had to describe it all and he
Speaker 1: wasn't moving his hands. He was still, so he had
Speaker 1: his fingers inside me and he was still when he
Speaker 1: was giving me a piggyback. But then when he sat
Speaker 1: me on the floor. That was when it was different,
Speaker 1: you know, and there was movement and and it was, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It was Did you want to scream?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah I did. I wanted to scream out because
Speaker 1: he had threatened to drop me when he was doing
Speaker 1: what he was doing beforehand, I knew that what he
Speaker 1: was doing was wrong because if he had stopped, if
Speaker 1: he had listened to me, then I would have you know,
Speaker 1: I felt safe, But I didn't feel safe. I knew
Speaker 1: then I wasn't. I didn't feel safe the second time.
Speaker 1: It didn't continue for very long either, And it only
Speaker 1: didn't continue for very long, I think because my brother
Speaker 1: he made a noise and he came back.
Speaker 3: You didn't You didn't want to tell You didn't you
Speaker 3: didn't think you know what, I don't care what you say,
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell someone, or you.
Speaker 2: Were that scared.
Speaker 1: He threatened to kill my brother. So at the time,
Speaker 1: with everything that was going on at home, my brother
Speaker 1: was my best friend, you know, and what happens, if
Speaker 1: he had hurt them, that would have been on me.
Speaker 1: Then I would never ever let anything happen to you
Speaker 1: or whatever. Never, So I've always been like that. Thought
Speaker 1: was brother to protect other people than myself though, so
Speaker 1: I did, and I didn't tell because I didn't want
Speaker 1: him to be hurt.
Speaker 3: What what happened as you walked off? Did he walk
Speaker 3: with you, Alex? Or did he just h Yeah, like
Speaker 3: nothing happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing has happened. But again I can't remember even
Speaker 1: walking back through the front door when I got home.
Speaker 1: He took a lot from me that day, a lot.
Speaker 1: But yeah, afterwards, it was all just a bit of
Speaker 1: a blur really.
Speaker 5: Because I felt like I didn't have anywhere I know
Speaker 5: about when like, being eight years old, you don't you know,
Speaker 5: when you're eight, you don't know much about you know,
Speaker 5: all that kind of stuff, you know, being.
Speaker 3: What sexual parts are and all like that. So what
Speaker 3: was going for your mind? Were you talking to yourself
Speaker 3: about this? Were you saying that you know? Did you
Speaker 3: feel that it's hard to Maybe I'm trying to I know,
Speaker 3: I'm trying to picture what's going for your mind as
Speaker 3: an eight year old kid, and you're trying to Did
Speaker 3: you think that you've done something wrong to deserve this?
Speaker 3: You looked up to all the friends that in your
Speaker 3: in your street, and you go to play with, and
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden one of them was violated
Speaker 3: you when you just wanted help to get across the nettles,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like your head must have
Speaker 3: been like I know if that you know, if that
Speaker 3: happens it any any kids that I had, Like I've.
Speaker 2: Been losing the plot, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And to not tell anyone for so many Like how
Speaker 3: long was it till you did tell someone?
Speaker 2: How many? How many years later?
Speaker 4: Was it?
Speaker 1: Twenty six years? Twenty six It's funny. I've had people, well,
Speaker 1: I've had people since the story came out, men who
Speaker 1: have abused me. Also who sent me messages, Oh I
Speaker 1: remember you telling me that? And I just think you
Speaker 1: ask whole like I don't want I don't remember ever
Speaker 1: telling you that. And two if I did, why why
Speaker 1: didn't you fucking help me? Either? Like why didn't you
Speaker 1: make me feel safe enough to help me? Either? Don't
Speaker 1: come at me now and tell me that I told
Speaker 1: you if you weren't prepared to help me, you know.
Speaker 1: But yeah, twenty six years and I only it got
Speaker 1: to the point where I had been assaulted, so I'd
Speaker 1: moved away to get away from my violent ex and
Speaker 1: just everything that had happened around here, and I moved
Speaker 1: not far, but it was beautiful. And then one day
Speaker 1: a woman in the village who had previously helped, she
Speaker 1: was an addict. She came and knocked on my door.
Speaker 1: We thought it was my son's friend, so we opened
Speaker 1: the door and she punched my tears out of my head.
Speaker 1: So then we didn't feel safe there, so we had
Speaker 1: to leave. And the only place that was available that
Speaker 1: I could afford at the time was back in the
Speaker 1: same village. So I was abused, and I think it
Speaker 1: was almost, you know, the universe's way of saying this
Speaker 1: is this is the final time I'm going to warn
Speaker 1: you need to go back and sort this shit out,
Speaker 1: because nothing, nothing that I was doing to help myself
Speaker 1: get off out other traumas I'd suffered, was helping because
Speaker 1: I'd never dealt with the root cause of it, and
Speaker 1: he was the root cause. So when I ended up
Speaker 1: coming back here every fucking morning on the news, it
Speaker 1: was different, all the numbers about different MECH officers and
Speaker 1: how many were being investigated, and I had a breakdown.
Speaker 1: For two weeks solid. I would drop my son off
Speaker 1: at school and I would come back and start on
Speaker 1: my bedroom floor. I literally drunks of hair because I
Speaker 1: just couldn't. I just didn't know what to do anymore.
Speaker 1: So it was either that or try and kill myself again,
Speaker 1: and that that's never worked. So I just I lost
Speaker 1: my ship one day and burst in at my dad's house,
Speaker 1: told my dad and said, listen, I need to take
Speaker 1: me to the police station. I need I need to
Speaker 1: report him.
Speaker 3: Did you feel when you did, when your family did
Speaker 3: do that, that was a big weight off your shoulders?
Speaker 1: It was, yeah, But then I was terrified. I was
Speaker 1: terrified because one I knew then that he was a
Speaker 1: police officer, and I had known that he was a
Speaker 1: police officer for a long time because obviously he told
Speaker 1: me because he'd contacted me and messages. This is what
Speaker 1: took me off as well. You know, for all of it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just the incident. It wasn't just what you did.
Speaker 1: For years later he tormented me. Never ever ever let
Speaker 1: me forget him.
Speaker 2: So he tormented you years later?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, he kept finding me on Facebook, so after
Speaker 1: we'd done what he'd done. Sorry, I know, it's fetely scattered.
Speaker 1: My head's like I just get loads of different side quests,
Speaker 1: and so when he'd done what he'd done. The next
Speaker 1: time I'd seen him was when I was about fifteen
Speaker 1: and myself and a few friends had gone down into
Speaker 1: a pub after school and he was there and he
Speaker 1: tried to come over but speak to me, and I
Speaker 1: just ignore him, and I remember him saying, so right,
Speaker 1: I'll come up and see you. A few days later,
Speaker 1: i'd finished school, I was still in my school uniform,
Speaker 1: and I was in my bedroom and there was a
Speaker 1: knock at the door. My mum shouted, Alex to see it,
Speaker 1: to see you. And I can just remember, like I
Speaker 1: picked to the deck I have never dropped to the floor,
Speaker 1: was fast, and I was, you know, I was a
Speaker 1: fucking so pathetic. But I can just remember trying to
Speaker 1: crawl into my bed, thinking here, I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: kill him. I just didn't want him anywhere near me,
Speaker 1: and I just refused to go down, and I was
Speaker 1: absolutely petrified, And I can remember my mom she went
Speaker 1: ape shit with me afterwards. Well he fucking came here
Speaker 1: to see you. We didn't come here to see me.
Speaker 1: But even then I just couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't
Speaker 1: find the words. I couldn't find the words because in school,
Speaker 1: you know, the basic sex education that we got back
Speaker 1: then was only people who love and care for you
Speaker 1: will ever touch you in that way. That never went
Speaker 1: into you know, sexual abuse or anything like that stuff.
Speaker 1: And this is the really fucked up part which gets married.
Speaker 1: So for yees, I thought that he loved me because of.
Speaker 2: What you'd done.
Speaker 1: So everybody else since him, who I love me, has
Speaker 1: done similar things, because that was that was what I
Speaker 1: thought love was, you know, because I never heard but
Speaker 1: there are examples of it, or it's self respect. It
Speaker 1: was hard, so he would turn up at the house.
Speaker 1: He turned up at the house that day anyway, and
Speaker 1: my mom and ancient and then a couple of years later, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm good obviously if I if I take time out,
Speaker 1: I'll you'll end up on a different side. Question will
Speaker 1: be somewhere somewhere else, And so yeah. Then a few
Speaker 1: years later I had done some modeling. I ended up
Speaker 1: playing in a couple of magazines that I wasn't awfully
Speaker 1: proud of, but I needed money. And again I thought
Speaker 1: that that was how it'll be loved, you know, that
Speaker 1: was how it'll be loved. So I don't know whether
Speaker 1: that was that was where it started with him, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't long after that that he'd started getting in
Speaker 1: touch with me on Facebook. And it was never a
Speaker 1: picture of him. It was always a police car, okay,
Speaker 1: and then he would he would tell me. So he
Speaker 1: told me that he joined the met Police. He sent
Speaker 1: me through pictures of himself, him in the back of
Speaker 1: a varan holding a gun. And it was that. It
Speaker 1: was that that really really terrified me, because I just thought,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever train and he's got, if we wanted to,
Speaker 1: it could take my brother away, and he could take
Speaker 1: me away. I mean not that I was. I was
Speaker 1: never bothered about me, but I never ever wanted him
Speaker 1: to touch my brother, so I'd never I wouldn't. I
Speaker 1: never said anything, you know, I pretended like I was
Speaker 1: happy for him, and that was the hardest thing. And
Speaker 1: I I used to get so angry with myself that
Speaker 1: even pretending to be nice to him when all I
Speaker 1: wanted to do was you know, rip right into him.
Speaker 1: But for years and years and years he.
Speaker 2: Would contact me, how old how old were you then.
Speaker 1: Late teens, early twenties, and how old was your brother?
Speaker 1: My brother? He was a couple of years younger than me.
Speaker 2: You didn't. You didn't want to. You did so, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you did. You didn't want to when you when you.
Speaker 3: Got to like your late teens, and he and you
Speaker 3: just found out he was in the police force, or
Speaker 3: even when he came round to your house, you just
Speaker 3: didn't want to go and just.
Speaker 2: Go offer him for what he did. You still feel
Speaker 2: feed for your life? Still you're you're still scared.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah I was. And because of my experience with
Speaker 1: my experiences after him with people, because I've been I'd
Speaker 1: never been allowed to have a voice, to speak or
Speaker 1: anything like that. As soon as I did have a meltdown,
Speaker 1: I was shamed for it. So I was shamed into
Speaker 1: never ever speaking about how I felt. I don't know,
Speaker 1: downward spiral.
Speaker 2: Wow, how did it?
Speaker 3: How did your parents take it when they finally found
Speaker 3: out and you had to tell them and take them
Speaker 3: to the police, Like, what was their reaction?
Speaker 2: Did they believe you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? My dad, to be honest, it was my dad,
Speaker 1: my dad I spoke to, and yeah, he believed me. However,
Speaker 1: I also struggled telling him anything more than just the
Speaker 1: very basics because my parents have shut me down quite
Speaker 1: a lot when I've gone to them with issues, so
Speaker 1: I find it difficult to again, you know, have a
Speaker 1: voice to tell them anything. So that was difficult in itself,
Speaker 1: even telling him.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he believed me, didn't you want to confront him.
Speaker 1: He's not that sort of man. He never has been.
Speaker 1: I've got bigger balls than him.
Speaker 3: But still it's still it's still you're still his daughter,
Speaker 3: like you're you're's he's the protector over you.
Speaker 1: What. So wow, that's that's and that's painful, Like that
Speaker 1: in itself is painful, you know, because there have been
Speaker 1: times when I've needed him when it's come to, you know,
Speaker 1: people being violent, and.
Speaker 3: Because I actually feel I feel sorry for you because
Speaker 3: the fact is not just because of your whole story,
Speaker 3: but I feel more sorry for you now because your
Speaker 3: own father didn't stand up for you and go and
Speaker 3: confront somebody who's touched his daughter and violated his daughter
Speaker 3: many years ago. Like it doesn't matter if he's if
Speaker 3: you've got bigger balls than him or not. At the
Speaker 3: end of the day, you're his daughter. No one should
Speaker 3: touch it is that no one should touch his daughter.
Speaker 1: It's always been more about, you know, what other people think.
Speaker 1: And how other people perceivers. So I've been stuck from
Speaker 1: doing a lot of text myself in order to to
Speaker 1: keep the family happy.
Speaker 3: Should we say, so, okay, tell me what it was
Speaker 3: like when you went into the police station, too, like
Speaker 3: to tell them what had happened to you, because now
Speaker 3: you're going in to tell a police officer, give a
Speaker 3: statement on a police officer.
Speaker 2: So that would have been hard in itself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this was the thing. So I was very well.
Speaker 1: I asked if I could speak to a female officer,
Speaker 1: because my dealings with male police officers locally, again when
Speaker 1: I've needed them to help me and protect me and
Speaker 1: my son, have been abysmal. So I didn't trust male
Speaker 1: police officers at all. So speaking with a female she
Speaker 1: was lovely. She was so kind, she was so courteous.
Speaker 1: Halfway through, she stopped and she was like, was going
Speaker 1: to stop for one second. She got up, she walked
Speaker 1: up and she came back and she was like, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to let you know it's been reported, it
Speaker 1: is officially a crime. Now it's you know, don't worry,
Speaker 1: we believe you.
Speaker 2: Keep going.
Speaker 1: Tell me what else you need to tell me. And
Speaker 1: it was when she said that. I just thought, finally
Speaker 1: somebody actually believes me, because so much has happened in
Speaker 1: my life and when I've told people about it, shout up, Katie,
Speaker 1: that's never happened, you know. So I've never ever been
Speaker 1: believed about anything. I've always told the truth about stuff.
Speaker 1: And this one time where I didn't think I was
Speaker 1: ever going to be believed, I really was. And had
Speaker 1: it not been for her, I probably wouldn't have reported it.
Speaker 3: You know what I've actually I've actually found lately that
Speaker 3: when I've read articles about things like what You've been
Speaker 3: through and other kind of abuses and all like that
Speaker 3: in the UK, that a lot of the police don't
Speaker 3: believe the victims until it's too late.
Speaker 2: There's a problem over there in the police force.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is it. So the violent relationship I was in,
Speaker 1: he came up. He's threatened to take me away and
Speaker 1: never kill me. He said no, no, that can see
Speaker 1: you again, and went round to my parents' house he
Speaker 1: said the same thing. The police came up. I reported
Speaker 1: it because he was driving past my house every single day.
Speaker 1: My then partner, he was stalking him, following him around,
Speaker 1: and a policeman came up, sat in my house and
Speaker 1: said to me, well, you should have just done what
Speaker 1: you want to want you to do. I said, are
Speaker 1: you're for real? He went, well, he's not done anything
Speaker 1: to you. He's threatened to take me away on I said,
Speaker 1: you didn't live with him, you didn't see what he
Speaker 1: was like. I know that he is capable of doing
Speaker 1: these things. I said, what have you got to wait
Speaker 1: until he actually he does it? You've got to wait
Speaker 1: where you'll do anything. He's not doing anything yet. Don't
Speaker 1: be so silly. Don't be so sick. I believe that's
Speaker 1: the thing. Don't be so don't tell me I'm silly,
Speaker 1: all of these fears that I am telling you, all
Speaker 1: of these things that I'm getting stressed about to put
Speaker 1: a panic button in my house. So they must have known.
Speaker 1: They know, Oh, they know what he is. He's a
Speaker 1: drug dealer. He's still carrying out and they fall the
Speaker 1: fuck all album. So they knew, and they did nothing
Speaker 1: to help me. And later on that day, my then
Speaker 1: partner went down to the petrol station and saw Dex
Speaker 1: and police officer who had been in my house stood
Speaker 1: on the forecourt having a laughing joke together. So my
Speaker 1: my view at that time was not very good. They
Speaker 1: had let me and my son so many fucking times,
Speaker 1: and uh that was I was terrified reporting it. I
Speaker 1: was terrified. And like I said, she she was amazing
Speaker 1: and she was brilliant. And she had said to me,
Speaker 1: it might take a couple of weeks before and hebe
Speaker 1: gets in touch with you, she said, but please be assured.
Speaker 1: We are going to deal with this. And I came
Speaker 1: away and I was still right. And I'll always be frightened,
Speaker 1: you know, because I don't even have two and a
Speaker 1: half years you got and a half sense, I don't
Speaker 1: even have to half years of freedom because he'll get
Speaker 1: after half of that. So it's it's still an interstice.
Speaker 1: But they believed me. And then when Phil trotted death
Speaker 1: and I thought it was a man, I just thought,
Speaker 1: but he was brilliant. He was you know, he made
Speaker 1: me feel comfortable. What could what could have a laugh?
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't already doing my glue really serious
Speaker 1: and and there was one point during the interview and
Speaker 1: I could just remember look him and he was like,
Speaker 1: I believe you, I believe just keep on h and uh,
Speaker 1: nobody has ever really said that to kill me before,
Speaker 1: you know, nobody had ever really said that before. So
Speaker 1: he saved my life as well because it's being had
Speaker 1: not been sent away, I I would have felt like
Speaker 1: it was all just a massive waste of time and
Speaker 1: killed myself after if if we left that court free,
Speaker 1: because I just wouldn't have I would have wanted to
Speaker 1: deal with it anymore. I would have felt like I
Speaker 1: had everyone's time, So was that. It's really it's a
Speaker 1: really bittersweet thing, all of it. It's really bitter sweet,
Speaker 1: and it's it's just a huge headpuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how on your mind it must be. You still
Speaker 2: must be thinking about when he does get released, because.
Speaker 1: Shout they called man a blank an end your neighbor.
Speaker 1: You know he knows you, knows where I live, which
Speaker 1: is why I'm desperate to move. He used to tell
Speaker 1: me in some of these messages when he was up
Speaker 1: here visiting family in the same village. His family didn't
Speaker 1: know he smoked, so we would go out on a
Speaker 1: night time and walk around so we could have a
Speaker 1: How do I know he wasn't outside my house? You know?
Speaker 1: How how do I know that? So when I was
Speaker 1: on the phone tell during the investigationist and Phil and
Speaker 1: fucking terrified what happens to ye? And he said, but
Speaker 1: the many and then junction, I wouldn't be worth the papers.
Speaker 1: I'm here like spring straight away if he comes near you,
Speaker 1: but I don't think he will. And I can remember
Speaker 1: going wild up and down the phone one day. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't because I was crossed with Phil, because I
Speaker 1: knew he still in his job, but I was terrified,
Speaker 1: like you shouldn't ever been break your own home. But
Speaker 1: yet again I asked, and I just needed I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just needed to feel safe.
Speaker 3: So can I ask you something does because you still
Speaker 3: because you still live in the same village of where
Speaker 3: all this happened, and he's from there, and he's from
Speaker 3: the same village and all this would have hit the
Speaker 3: news when it all happened.
Speaker 2: Did the village turn on you?
Speaker 1: No, I had. I had a messages from from people
Speaker 1: who knew me when I was a kid, you know,
Speaker 1: I saw me growing up and were like, I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry that ever happened to you. But a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are still in the village, who were here
Speaker 1: at the time, they about the family stuff. They knew
Speaker 1: about what was happening and at home, so we were
Speaker 1: sort of. It sounds terrible and I hate certain stuff
Speaker 1: about my fife, but we were we were always the
Speaker 1: talk about family in the village anyway because of my parents.
Speaker 1: So really it makes no difference.
Speaker 3: But what about as parents, parents still live there, How
Speaker 3: have they treated you since all this happened.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen them, to be quite honest with you,
Speaker 1: I'm a right home. I hardly leave the house. I
Speaker 1: really struggle, I really struggle.
Speaker 3: You can't keep living your life, but you can't keep
Speaker 3: living your life like hiding in a village that you
Speaker 3: don't like, and like, sure, it's.
Speaker 1: Just I am desperate. I am desperate to move away,
Speaker 1: but because of the situation, I mean at the minute,
Speaker 1: it's difficult, and like I said, not have thought of
Speaker 1: my parents. Even at thirty six, I still feel like
Speaker 1: sounds so stupid. I can't need to do what some
Speaker 1: old you know, and I don't keep up Scotland mastern
Speaker 1: and ruining his life because.
Speaker 2: Hal you know, yeah, but you're not. You're not ruining
Speaker 2: his life.
Speaker 3: But by moving away so you feel safe, like you
Speaker 3: want your son, your son needs you. And and the
Speaker 3: fact that if you're still feeling for this for your
Speaker 3: safety when he gets released and you're you're you're already thinking.
Speaker 2: About suicidal stuff. You need to move When when does
Speaker 2: he get released next summer?
Speaker 1: At some point I'm not doing I'm not sure and
Speaker 1: I don't understand how how they can really steps offenders early.
Speaker 1: So Gurman German Sentencing. We've found out that since he
Speaker 1: had been suspended in November, he'd been retraining to be
Speaker 1: I can't remember whether it was a plumber or an electrician.
Speaker 1: So he didn't want to go to prison because he
Speaker 1: heard becoming Adam's and I can remember saying to Phil
Speaker 1: when we came, when we came out of court, how
Speaker 1: is that? How could he if he said, if he
Speaker 1: passed on what company stood sex offenders? Sex offender's registerant
Speaker 1: has been since I think it was February the year,
Speaker 1: so how would that be possible? Who the fuck would
Speaker 1: want to employ him? And suddenly if he went self employed,
Speaker 1: he was going to be doing the texts because when
Speaker 1: we'll come in bour homes, it's not one of the
Speaker 1: first things we asked them. Excuse me, are you're an offender?
Speaker 1: Do you have any offenses? Blah blah blah on their
Speaker 1: name badge? Is it going to be their actual name,
Speaker 1: or will they have been given identity When Alex was
Speaker 1: not identified by the papers, when he wasn't identified on
Speaker 1: his miscontract report with the police. That's why it really
Speaker 1: really fucked me off, because I just thought, yet again,
Speaker 1: nobody know who he is, what he looks like, or
Speaker 1: what he's done. And that's not right that especially especially
Speaker 1: if he's gone into a job which is a trade
Speaker 1: where he's going to be in people's houses and possibly
Speaker 1: around to the children. So it was me who the
Speaker 1: papers about him. It was me push to have his
Speaker 1: fucking flace put out there, you know, otherwise he would
Speaker 1: have still gotten away all, he would have still been
Speaker 1: able to hide behind everything.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm well, that's why when I when I
Speaker 3: read your story, and that's the whole reason why I
Speaker 3: wanted you on here so I could point the finger
Speaker 3: at him if you if you really want me to know,
Speaker 3: so I can get it out there more, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, Because yeah, it's fucking disgusting what he's
Speaker 3: done to you and and the way he still makes
Speaker 3: you fear for your safety. I'm just so it's you
Speaker 3: just seem so lonely because you've got no help.
Speaker 2: And it seems like you've had no help for years,
Speaker 2: bottling all it up inside you.
Speaker 3: I want to really say, you know, a massive, massive
Speaker 3: thank you for coming on.
Speaker 2: But I really like when we going off.
Speaker 3: When we get off here, I'm going to talk to
Speaker 3: you to get someone who's been on the show, and
Speaker 3: I'm going to try and get her to contact you
Speaker 3: to try and help you, because she went through the
Speaker 3: same thing, because she does a lot of work for
Speaker 3: all this, and I think you need it. You need
Speaker 3: someone in your corner who can help you and your son.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to reach out to her to get
Speaker 3: in touch with you. But I want to thank you
Speaker 3: for coming on and sharing this because you don't deserve that.
Speaker 3: And now there's your son, and hopefully this episode when
Speaker 3: it drops that people will reach out to you and
Speaker 3: help you.
Speaker 1: I just I just don't want to keep going through
Speaker 1: any of It's we end up with fucking generations and
Speaker 1: generation should have really really broken people if it doesn't stop,
Speaker 1: and it's not right because our children don't say it.
Speaker 1: I just I just want to feel safe and I
Speaker 1: want Hindu basel. But thank you for asking me, and
Speaker 1: I really really appreciate it. H M