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Speaker 1: I'm at a point in my life where the only

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Speaker 1: income that I'm generating is the income that I generate,

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Speaker 1: and I currently have a contract for a bigger entity

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Speaker 1: where I provide a service to them, you know, as

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Speaker 1: a hoster, an MC or writing something or a consultant whatever.

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Speaker 1: The money that pays our mortgage, the money that keeps

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Speaker 1: our lights on, keeps the fridge fall, keeps us on

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Speaker 1: a hot money only comes if I work to make

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Speaker 1: it happen, and I create the work to make it happen.

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Speaker 2: Essentially, so what would you think happens? Then?

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Speaker 1: Well, if I'm not careful, I can start to work way, way,

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Speaker 1: way too much. Often I get very very busy on

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Speaker 1: things that do not bring in income.

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Speaker 2: It's wold, isn't it. I feel like.

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Speaker 1: I'm working really, really really hard and I'm very very busy,

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Speaker 1: but I'm actually getting less done. And if I'm not careful,

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Speaker 1: I can get less productive right when I need to

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Speaker 1: be more productive and I need to make sure the

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Speaker 1: quality of what it is that I'm making is absolutely

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Speaker 1: top notch. Once again a wild revelation. I am not

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Speaker 1: a special snowflake here.

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Speaker 2: I'm not alone. It's quite a common situation.

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Speaker 1: Thankfully, though, there are scientific ways of approaching productivity, methods

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Speaker 1: that we can use to make sure that we're doing

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Speaker 1: more good work in less time and therefore giving us

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Speaker 1: free time to recharge, recoup, reflect, and perhaps just I

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Speaker 1: don't know, sit there, just think, do nothing, so that

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Speaker 1: when we're back on the tools, we come back with

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Speaker 1: a fresh perspective, fresh ideas, and an ability to produce

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Speaker 1: higher quality work than if we're up at through the

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Speaker 1: morning trying to finish a deadline. My guest today is

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Speaker 1: a world renowned expert in such things, a world around

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Speaker 1: expert in productivity. Doctor Ali Abdal spent a few years

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Speaker 1: working in the NHS in the UK as a doctor

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Speaker 1: before leaning full time into the videos that he was making,

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Speaker 1: initially to help other med students pass their exams, and

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Speaker 1: then growing out into a larger offering around essentially making

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Speaker 1: sure you work ethic, matches your values and that those

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Speaker 1: two things are aligned. He's a truly fascinating man. His

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Speaker 1: YouTube is epic. I'll put the link in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: His latest book, it's a New York Times bestseller, is

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Speaker 1: called Feel Good Productivity.

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Speaker 2: I know you're going to love this and.

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Speaker 1: If you remember about a minute ago when I talked

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Speaker 1: about the money coming in, I'm going to try and

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Speaker 1: make some right now.

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Speaker 2: So here's the.

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Speaker 1: Ads that will feed me, feed the team, feed all

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Speaker 1: of our childer and all about animals, all the fiarsh all,

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Speaker 1: the dogs, cats, snakes, reptiles, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: And then we're back with Ali. Gooday, this is better.

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Speaker 1: Than yesterday, helping you make today better than yesterday. Since

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Speaker 1: twenty and thirteen, every single episode Minds.

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Speaker 2: As You gives me a work.

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Speaker 1: I'm a podcast, I'm a best selling author, a husband,

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Speaker 1: a dad, a stepdad.

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Speaker 2: I'm a keynote speaker.

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Speaker 1: I'm a backyard possum pooh leaf blower remover both brushtail.

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Speaker 2: Possum and ringtail possum.

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Speaker 1: And I'm someone who put five kilograms onto his squat

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Speaker 1: weight today and I've done nothing since I scored it

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Speaker 1: last time. I'm never really able to go up in

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Speaker 1: five kilo increments, and I was able to do that,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure purely by taking the punishment of my

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Speaker 1: stepdaughter's pilarates class.

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Speaker 2: I was really impressed.

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Speaker 1: Well, the mad gains I've made from a squishy ball

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Speaker 1: between my knees and doing PILARTI stuff anyway, I'm glad

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Speaker 1: you made it here.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Ali Abdahl is on the show today.

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Speaker 1: I'll link his YouTube and his podcast and his book

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Speaker 1: all in the show notes. Needless to say, there's a

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Speaker 1: reason he's so freaking successful, because he's so freaking good.

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Speaker 2: Just an up top.

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Speaker 1: For whatever reason, our internet connection was quite shite on

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Speaker 1: the day that we recorded, so he and I were

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Speaker 1: working with an eight to ten second delay between us.

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Speaker 1: It made it a little bit difficult to achieve the

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Speaker 1: level of connection that I generally get with my guests.

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Speaker 1: So if you do notice any distance between us, please

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Speaker 1: it's just two blokes arm wrestling with exasperating internet lag.

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Speaker 1: He's an absolutely top fella. I'm thrilled he made time

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Speaker 1: to come and join us. I know you're going to

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Speaker 1: get a lot out of this, so I should it.

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Speaker 2: It's lovely to see you. How are you today, mate.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing pretty good.

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Speaker 2: This is nice.

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Speaker 3: I love your setup as a good vibe.

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Speaker 4: I was serenaded by you singing just now, which was

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Speaker 4: very nice, so it's a good start to the morning.

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Speaker 3: I have a.

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Speaker 1: History of being a roadie back in the day before

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Speaker 1: broadcast came into it, so.

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Speaker 2: Mike checks get very boring.

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Speaker 1: If it's just one two one two, So you know

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Speaker 1: you got to sing every now and again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know what you mean. I do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: We were going to speak a couple of months ago,

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Speaker 1: and then one of your team whe people said.

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Speaker 2: Look, he's very busy making this enormously fantastic book.

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Speaker 1: And fair, fair call, and you've been working very very

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Speaker 1: hard on this. It's a crackout. But what I do,

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Speaker 1: what I do kind of love is the how much doctoring,

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Speaker 1: how much medicine, I guess, the thing that brought you

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Speaker 1: to being a doctor.

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Speaker 2: How much of that is in this book.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's quite a lot of it.

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Speaker 4: Really, there was a lot more of it, But then

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Speaker 4: we had to cut out quite a lot of mentions

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Speaker 4: of it because my publisher said that too many examples

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Speaker 4: from life as a doctor will make it unrelatable to

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Speaker 4: most people in the audience, and so we had to sort.

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Speaker 3: Of turn it down a little bit.

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Speaker 4: But really, like a big part of why I discovered

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Speaker 4: this whole like feel good productivity philosophy and stuff was

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Speaker 4: because I was working for two years in a real

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Speaker 4: job that required me to like, you know, go to

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Speaker 4: work and do the work and come home and work

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Speaker 4: nights and weekends and stuff. And I think that sort

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Speaker 4: of almost real world experience helped ready set the stage

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Speaker 4: for a lot of my own theories and stuff about productivity,

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Speaker 4: because yeah, I mean, if I were a full time

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Speaker 4: entrepreneur or I could do whatever I want, then in

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Speaker 4: a way, like my productivity advice, you know, runs the

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Speaker 4: risk of not really being applicable to normal people and

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Speaker 4: only really applicable to entrepreneurs nowadays. You know, it's I'm

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Speaker 4: kind of a full time entrepreneur and author and stuff,

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Speaker 4: and so like the stuff that I that I think

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Speaker 4: about and talk about and the way I schedule my

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Speaker 4: life and stuff now only really appeals to other entrepreneurs

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Speaker 4: and other authors. So I'm kind of glad that I

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Speaker 4: had those two years of like life in the real

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Speaker 4: world to be able to appreciate how annoying it is

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Speaker 4: having a real job.

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Speaker 1: I certainly as someone who's been, you know, a junior

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Speaker 1: doctor working in the NHS in the UK.

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Speaker 2: Both my parents did that. They met in the UK.

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Speaker 1: One came from here after leaving rubble of Europe, and

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Speaker 1: the other one came from Prague after leaving the rubble

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Speaker 1: of same Russians a couple of years apart, and they

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Speaker 1: told stories of literally finding a spare bed in the

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Speaker 1: you know, power care Warden went, well, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: lie down here for five minutes.

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Speaker 2: But I'm wondering, is it's still like that.

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Speaker 3: It kind of is.

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Speaker 4: On a night shift, when you're bringing patients into the

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Speaker 4: emergency department, you have to You're mandated to take a

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Speaker 4: half an hour break every four hours, and so you'll

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Speaker 4: go to the doctor's common room. You'll try and find

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Speaker 4: an empty sofa where no one else is sleeping, and

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Speaker 4: try and sort of sleep for twenty five minutes to

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Speaker 4: do a bit of a power and app. I had

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Speaker 4: one placement on psychiatry that was very nice because on

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Speaker 4: night shifts they gave you a room and so I

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Speaker 4: would bring my own blanket and my own fan because

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Speaker 4: it it would be quite hot in that room because

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Speaker 4: this was over the summer and it was pretty nice,

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Speaker 4: and then the nurses would leep you and you'd wake

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Speaker 4: up and go and see a patient and come back

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Speaker 4: and sleep, So it's kind of it's kind of nice

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Speaker 4: once in a while.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess there's a number of people who are

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Speaker 1: in the same space, you know, in the productivity space

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Speaker 1: or you know, ways to make your life working better space,

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Speaker 1: certainly on YouTube and certainly in the book world, but

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Speaker 1: not many of those people have spent their hot summer nights,

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Speaker 1: you know, getting a phone call from a nurse and

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Speaker 1: then going and trying to talk to someone who's having

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Speaker 1: the worst fucking day of their life, convinced they're being

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Speaker 1: eaten alive by snakes live inside them and you can't

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Speaker 1: see them, but they hurt like crazy. What kind of

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Speaker 1: perspectives does that give you to your work?

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Speaker 3: Hmm, that's a good question. What kind of perspectives?

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Speaker 4: I think one major perspective is it's going to sound cliche,

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Speaker 4: but the whole you know that that phrase that the

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Speaker 4: healthy man has one hundred problems or one hundred desires,

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Speaker 4: the unhealthy man has only one. And hospitals are really

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Speaker 4: the great equalizer where, you know, we had patients who

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Speaker 4: were kind of high flying CEOs. We had patients who

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Speaker 4: were homeless, We had patients who were like from literally

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Speaker 4: every walk of life imaginable. We had patients who were

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Speaker 4: all in the same bed, in the same hospital, in

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Speaker 4: the same state funded healthcare system. And it really kind

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Speaker 4: of makes you appreciate that, holy shit, I really want

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Speaker 4: to take care of my health, because quite a lot

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Speaker 4: of them, like were there for things where you could

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Speaker 4: be like, ah, this would have been preventable. Maybe they'd

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Speaker 4: been smoking all their life, or they hadn't taken their

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Speaker 4: diet and exercise seriously. But also quite a lot of

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Speaker 4: them were there for reasons completely outside of their control,

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Speaker 4: like young people, people in their thirties and forties having

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Speaker 4: cancer randomly, or like it just really helps you appreciate

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Speaker 4: that life is short and there are things that you

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Speaker 4: can control about your health that are very useful to control,

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Speaker 4: but also you don't have control over the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: You came to the UK when you were a kid

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Speaker 1: with with your brother and you know, you're living the

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Speaker 1: immigrant story, right, which is often the case with my

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Speaker 1: parents who were the same.

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Speaker 2: My wife's parents were the same. She came from Fiji, and.

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Speaker 1: That the pathway here is education. Kids, that's it. We

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Speaker 1: don't know anyone, We've got no one that can do

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Speaker 1: as favors, so let's just go. Was that something that

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Speaker 1: was kind of drilled into you or did you really

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Speaker 1: really want to be a doctor.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So the education thing was very much drilled into

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Speaker 4: me that education is the most important thing. We moved

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Speaker 4: to the UK when I was like seven, and previously

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Speaker 4: I was born in Pakistan and then we lived in

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Speaker 4: Southern Africa in Lusutu for like six years before coming

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Speaker 4: to the UK, so education was really drilled in as

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Speaker 4: being particularly important, specifically medicine.

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Speaker 3: You know, my mum never really pushed me into doing it.

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Speaker 4: She was like, hey, you know, do what you want,

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Speaker 4: as long as you're good at it and as long

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Speaker 4: as you can get a decent job. But it was

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Speaker 4: kind of weird because my mum was a doctor and

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Speaker 4: all of our friends' parents were doctors. Medicine was really

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Speaker 4: the only career that I knew existed. Everything else was

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Speaker 4: you know, if someone asked me, do you want to

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Speaker 4: do history at university, I'd be like, well, all you

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Speaker 4: can do with that is become a history teacher. So

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Speaker 4: I just didn't really appreciate that there were other feasible

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Speaker 4: careers outside of medicine, and so in a way I

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Speaker 4: kind of went down that path somewhat randomly. I was

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Speaker 4: torn between medicine and computer science, but I thought it's

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Speaker 4: more interesting to be a doctor who knows how to

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Speaker 4: code then then it has to be a random dude

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Speaker 4: who knows how to code. So I thought, why don't

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Speaker 4: I do medicine, and then I can just keep up

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Speaker 4: coding and learn web design and development and stuff on

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Speaker 4: the side, because I was always kind of into that.

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Speaker 1: The work that you've done now on productivity, and you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of your early success was in I guess

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Speaker 1: helping university students with their productivity. I've had, like my

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Speaker 1: mate Pete went to Cambridge and I've spent some time there.

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Speaker 2: He was a research fellow there.

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Speaker 1: And he told stories of just like four all minors,

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Speaker 1: like that's the stuff, that's just what needed to be

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Speaker 1: done when you were When you were there, did you

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Speaker 1: notice like these You know, you're a kid, you go

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Speaker 1: to university and you've got the weight of your expectations

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Speaker 1: on your shoulders. Did you notice people, I guess burning

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Speaker 1: out or you know, putting themselves on an inordinate amount

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Speaker 1: of pressure and by working harder than they probably should have,

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Speaker 1: they were doing themselves a disservice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, quite a lot.

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Speaker 4: So in my first two weeks, one of the students,

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Speaker 4: one of the medical students in my college had dropped

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Speaker 4: out citing stress as the reason in the first month

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Speaker 4: we had someone else to drop out. In the first

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Speaker 4: year we had someone else drop out, Like, the dropout

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Speaker 4: rate was somewhat high. I realized that for me and

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Speaker 4: for a lot of my friends, our entire identity was

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Speaker 4: tied to this idea of being a high academic performer.

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Speaker 4: And so when you're in school, it's like, great, you're

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Speaker 4: a high academic performer, and you feel like you're winning

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Speaker 4: and the like. Feeling like you're winning is a very

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Speaker 4: addictive feeling in any walk of life. Then you get

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Speaker 4: to university you realize you bang average. You no longer

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Speaker 4: have that sensation of feeling like you're winning, and so

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Speaker 4: you then feel like you have to work really, really

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Speaker 4: really hard and burn them in night oil and stuff

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Speaker 4: to get that feeling back, to get that identity back.

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Speaker 3: For me, I tried that for a year.

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Speaker 4: I was like, Hey, I'm going to work really hard,

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Speaker 4: and then I just realized pretty quickly that actually, in

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Speaker 4: order for me to come anywhere near the top of

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Speaker 4: the year, there are just not enough hours in the

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Speaker 4: day for that. And there were just people who which

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Speaker 4: is way more naturally intelligent than me, which was a

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Speaker 4: bit of a bit of a humbling experience. So then

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Speaker 4: I started thinking, okay, cool, what is the game that

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Speaker 4: I actually want to be playing here? Like, do I

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Speaker 4: want to be playing the get good grades at all

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Speaker 4: costs game?

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Speaker 3: Or what's the point?

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Speaker 4: And coincidentally, around that time, I discovered The four hour

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Speaker 4: work Week by Tim ferriss Ah, and I realized that

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Speaker 4: the game that I wanted to play was, Hey, I'd

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Speaker 4: love to be able to work part time someday. And

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Speaker 4: the way you work part time in medicine is by

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Speaker 4: having enough money outside that you don't need a full

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Speaker 4: time salary. And so that was when I decided to

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Speaker 4: set my focus to I just need to get through

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Speaker 4: medicool and enjoy the journey long way. But on the side,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to try and build businesses and I'm going

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Speaker 4: to try and make quick passive income. Because my theory was, oh,

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Speaker 4: if I can make a couple of grand a month

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Speaker 4: from my side business, then it means I can do

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Speaker 4: medicine for fun rather than purely because I.

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Speaker 3: Need the money.

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Speaker 1: It's so fascinating because you know, as a doctor, if

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Speaker 1: you're especially as a young doctor, if you're not trying

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Speaker 1: to make all these literally life and death decisions at

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Speaker 1: the same time as being stressed about money, you're probably

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Speaker 1: going to be making better decisions.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, once I started, once I started working, I found

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Speaker 4: this pattern quite a lot where you know, the NHS,

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Speaker 4: like morale is at an all time low, junior doctors

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Speaker 4: are going on strike to campaign for their wages to

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Speaker 4: be increased from fourteen pounds an hour to seventeen pounds

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Speaker 4: an hour because of inflation and staff so joug doctors

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Speaker 4: have had a sort of twenty eight percent pay cut

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Speaker 4: if you take inflation into account over the last ten years,

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Speaker 4: and a lot of you know, the pay, the working conditions,

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Speaker 4: it was all kind of it's very demoralizing. Most of

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Speaker 4: my friends are still are still doctors, and I don't

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Speaker 4: know how they do it, but it's it's a pretty

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Speaker 4: sort of high stress life when you feel like a

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Speaker 4: the job is itself very stressful, and then be you

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Speaker 4: feel like you're not actually being paid enough money to

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Speaker 4: be able to, for example, by your house or to

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Speaker 4: be able to for example live in London or in

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Speaker 4: the place that you really want to.

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Speaker 2: Yes, when the housing crisis comes.

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Speaker 1: For doctors, you know where real cooked Well we might

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Speaker 1: need to really have a think about what's going on.

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Speaker 1: You spoke about when, And it's interesting because I certainly

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Speaker 1: saw this in my own career and the kind of

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Speaker 1: TV that I've worked on. When you've been the best

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Speaker 1: at whatever it is your whole life, you have this

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Speaker 1: way of looking at yourself and when you're suddenly in

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Speaker 1: a room full of people who are also the best,

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Speaker 1: all you got left is who you are and how

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Speaker 1: you go about things, And that what you described earlier

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Speaker 1: is that constant kind of I guess reward system dopamine

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Speaker 1: hit from oh I did a really good job again,

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Speaker 1: here I Go is now suddenly gone, and the adulation

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Speaker 1: of others because I look how smart Ali is, look

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Speaker 1: at him Go is gone. So I understand why people

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Speaker 1: would want to just turn the treadmill up and go

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Speaker 1: for it to try and make that up. But what

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Speaker 1: should we be doing instead when we find ourselves in

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Speaker 1: that position?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I remember at the time I read a really good

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Speaker 4: blog post by Mark Manson. I think this was before

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Speaker 4: his Subtle Lot of Not Giving a Fuck book came out.

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Speaker 4: I'd been like maybe twenty fifteen or something, and it

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Speaker 4: was around diversifying your identity and I really vibe with that.

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Speaker 3: That blog post helped me realize.

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Speaker 4: That my identity was entirely pegged to this academic stuff,

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Speaker 4: and it's pretty helpful to diversify your identity and to

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Speaker 4: have you know, Obviously, in a dream world, if you

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Speaker 4: were fully enlightened, your sense of self would be entirely well, well,

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Speaker 4: would be entirely gone. But if you're not enlightened, then

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Speaker 4: your sense of self and self worth would come entirely

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Speaker 4: from within. But in the real world, a lot of

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Speaker 4: us do peg some of our self esteem to external

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Speaker 4: things like accolades or career success or how cute or

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Speaker 4: our kids or well, you know, whatever the thing might be. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and so Mark Manson had diversifying your identity, finding sources

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Speaker 4: of sources of pride in your life that are not

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Speaker 4: just one thing. So I realized for me that was

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Speaker 4: the business stuff. I also started working as a semi

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Speaker 4: professional magician, where I would do like magic tricks and stuff.

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Speaker 3: At board and parties and get paid for that.

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Speaker 4: I also started like organizing events like social events and

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Speaker 4: things for like the Pakistan Society and so like. I

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Speaker 4: had a few different sources of identity, so that when

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Speaker 4: my academic pillar of identity completely crumbled because I was

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Speaker 4: bang average. I could still feel like I was, I

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Speaker 4: don't know, worth something in a problematic way because I

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Speaker 4: had the business going for me, or I had the

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Speaker 4: magic stuff going for me, or I was doing this

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Speaker 4: website stuff on the side.

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Speaker 1: Just before we leave the doctor think because I think

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Speaker 1: you've got quite a perspective from where you've come from,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you've still got lots of mates who

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Speaker 1: are doing it quite actively. If you where you know,

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Speaker 1: you're an election year in the UK, where like less

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Speaker 1: than a year away from an explection here in Australia

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Speaker 1: and we have a very similar public health system. What

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Speaker 1: do you think would it take besides the money, what

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Speaker 1: would it take to make being a doctor desirable again?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think one of the things that a

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Speaker 4: lot of my friends talk about is just a little

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Speaker 4: bit more autonomy, a little bit more freedom at the moment.

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Speaker 4: A big part of why people are really burnt out

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Speaker 4: by it is because it's genuinely it's just really hard

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Speaker 4: to take time off. You have to like negotiate with

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Speaker 4: the rotor coordinator. One of my friends was getting married

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Speaker 4: and she emailed them like nine months in advance to

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Speaker 4: say that, hey, look, I'm getting married on the eighteenth

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Speaker 4: of August, can you please let me have that day off?

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Speaker 4: And when the ROTA came out a month before, she

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Speaker 4: found out that she was on a night shift on

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Speaker 4: the eighteenth of August on the day that she was

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Speaker 4: getting married. And you know, it's things like that that

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Speaker 4: are not like the exception, They kind of happened fairly regularly.

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Speaker 3: And so a lot of my.

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Speaker 4: Mates talk about is that, like if we just had

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Speaker 4: a little bit more autonomy, if there was just a

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Speaker 4: little bit more flex in the system to allow us

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Speaker 4: to take time off when we wanted to, rather than

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Speaker 4: to have to sort of kind of beg borrow steel, swap.

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Speaker 3: Shifts, all of this stuff.

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Speaker 4: Because if you can take time off when you want,

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Speaker 4: it means you can actually have a life. You know,

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Speaker 4: obviously within the bounds of how much and you'll leave

403
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Speaker 4: your entitle to but it means you can have a life.

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Speaker 4: It means you can go on holiday with your mates

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Speaker 4: when they're all going on holiday, rather than feeling as

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Speaker 4: if you're stuck doing this thing where you're at the

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Speaker 4: mercy of this adam in person who's coordinating the ROTA,

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Speaker 4: and I think in cal Newport's book So Good, They

409
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Speaker 4: Can't Ignore You, he talks a lot about this, that

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Speaker 4: a big part of job satisfaction comes from your sense

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Speaker 4: of autonomy in the job, how much control you feel

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Speaker 4: you have over your life. And unfortunately, at least in

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Speaker 4: medicine in the UK, you don't have a lot of that.

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Speaker 4: And I think if we can find a way to

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Speaker 4: give doctors and healthcare workers that sense of autonomy back,

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Speaker 4: it would go some way towards helping helping things. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: the money is also great, So yeah, that's probably it's

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Speaker 4: a hard one to solve.

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Speaker 1: It is, especially where and it's the same thing here.

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Speaker 1: You know, the cost of the system starts to blow

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Speaker 1: out when you're dealing with acute present presentations. Certainly, you

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Speaker 1: know the work that I've done sitting on the boards

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Speaker 1: of mental health charities and things, you know it's on

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Speaker 1: the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yet trying to push

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Speaker 1: for an early intervention program that costs money for people

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Speaker 1: who are everyone goes, look, they look fine.

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Speaker 2: Is really hard.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's trying to make the economic argument there's

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Speaker 1: actually a spending money here now, and we won't be

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Speaker 1: spending squillions up that end.

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Speaker 2: It's only when we get to that end and then

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Speaker 2: we start cutting costs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, it's not a perfect system anywhere.

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Speaker 1: But I lived in America ten years. I'm very grateful

436
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Speaker 1: we've got it. I'm not going to lie.

437
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Speaker 2: Very lucky. It's a whole other world over there.

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Speaker 1: Man. We've got two kids at our house. One's four

439
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Speaker 1: and a half nearly five, the other ones twenty. She's

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00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:02,920
Speaker 1: a yearni she's killing it. But when you speaking to students,

441
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 1: what's the thing you tell them now? Like not the

442
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 1: kids that you were helping on the YouTube channel on

443
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: the early days, but when you're speaking to students now,

444
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: what's the thing that you tell them around a way

445
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 1: to approach their work that encompasses the diversity of.

446
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 2: Identity and trying to be a bit smarter about things.

447
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great question. So I speak to a

448
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 4: lot of students now when I do talks and things.

449
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,959
Speaker 4: I think back in the day, maybe in sort of

450
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 4: like even ten ten years ago, there was still the

451
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 4: idea that oh, I just need to do well at

452
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 4: school so that I can get into a good university,

453
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:37,679
Speaker 4: and I just need to do well at university so

454
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 4: that I can then get a good job, and then

455
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 4: if I do well in my job, then I'll be

456
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 4: able to sort of have a good life. I think increasingly,

457
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 4: especially in the last ten years, especially gen Z, are

458
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 4: kind of realizing that this is a bit of a

459
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 4: myth that they've been sold and it's just not true.

460
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 3: Maybe it was true at one point.

461
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 4: Where the school, university, good job, good life linear equation

462
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 4: held true, but everyone, like a lot of students, realize

463
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 4: now that cost of living has gone up everywhere, you

464
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 4: probably won't be able to afford a house anytime soon.

465
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 4: Whatever job you end up in, they can fire you

466
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 4: whenever they want, as evidence by the pandemic and how

467
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,360
Speaker 4: so many people lost their jobs. So there's a real

468
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 4: sense of like, you know, this traditional system, this step

469
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 4: by step thing of like get the good grades, get

470
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 4: a good job, have a happy life, just it doesn't

471
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 4: hold true anymore, and so a lot of students feel

472
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 4: very lost. The best advice I've I've heard on this

473
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 4: is actually from cal Newport's blog, which I again used

474
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 4: to read a lot and still do, but it really

475
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 4: helped me get through university. And one thing that cal

476
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 4: Newport has always been bullish on is the idea of

477
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 4: lifestyle centric career planning. So instead of thinking, I've got

478
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 4: a degree in economics, therefore, what career do I want

479
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,919
Speaker 4: to do or what job do I want? Do I

480
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 4: go private equity, do I go investment banking? Do I

481
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 4: go consulting? Instead of doing that, you should say, hey,

482
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 4: what is the life that I think I might want?

483
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 4: What would I like my day to day experience of

484
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 4: life to look like, where might I want to live,

485
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 4: how much autonomy of my schedule would I like? And

486
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 4: now let's sort of reverse engineer what job makes sense

487
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 4: based on that lifestyle. And generally, I find that most

488
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 4: students don't do this. They tend to think, oh, I

489
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 4: got an economics degree or I like economics, therefore let

490
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 4: me get the job. But they don't really realize until

491
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 4: you get into the workplace that so much of your

492
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 4: day to day experience and your day to day happiness

493
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 4: depends on things like how good you feel at that job,

494
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 4: how much autonomy you have, and just generally what does

495
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,479
Speaker 4: your day to day schedule look like. So I'm always

496
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 4: a fan of beginning with the end in mind and

497
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 4: figuring out what's the life you want, and then based

498
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 4: on that let's figure out what career or what job

499
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 4: we can land into.

500
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: I have overen my just through my interesting health history

501
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: where I'm fifty, so I've met more doctors than you have,

502
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: just because I'm old. The orthopedic surgeons that I've spoken to,

503
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: I've spoken to hapes of them, but I said a

504
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: on one guy in the end, But you you kind

505
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: of look at them and I have. I based them

506
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: off my parents. They're kind of like the yardsticker. Like

507
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: these two people that I had had great integrity as

508
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: to why they wanted to become doctors, and I'm like,

509
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: you chose orthopedics, it's the quickest route to a Porsche,

510
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: not because you wanted to help people.

511
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 2: In kind. It's hell.

512
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's definitely a big aspect.

513
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 4: Of stage cardioles and the prestige around around certain specialties

514
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 4: and cent certain careers as well, which you know is

515
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 4: one way of accusing what you want to do with

516
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 4: your life. But I don't think it's it's particularly it's

517
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 4: a particularly good one.

518
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: And now, because of the aforementioned housing crist as, many

519
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: of these students are still living with their we're parents

520
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: their parents. I mean, what advice would you give to

521
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 1: parents who are seeing their you know, these young adults

522
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: now trying to do their best at unied, trying to

523
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: make great choices and trying to be you know, not

524
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: work themselves to illness.

525
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

526
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 4: I've heard this a lot from friends who sort of graduated,

527
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 4: moved out on their own, but then moved back in

528
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 4: with their parents during the pandemic. And there's this sort

529
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 4: of weird dynamic that forms when you move back in

530
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 4: with your parents where it sort of reverts to the teenage,

531
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 4: so the teenage years where they are still very much

532
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 4: the parent and you are still very much the child.

533
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 4: And that's kind of weird if you're like twenty five

534
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 4: or twenty two or something like that. And I think

535
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 4: the families who I know of who have the healthiest

536
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 4: relationships are the ones where the parents have managed to

537
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 4: flip into the mode of, hey, we're all adults now,

538
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 4: and it becomes less I'm the parent, you're the child.

539
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 4: And then you would sort of just genuinely treat the

540
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 4: kid as if they are an adult, which they are,

541
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 4: and not sort of, you know, give unsolicited advice too much,

542
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 4: or like nag them too much to do things.

543
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 3: It's just like you would you would treat them like

544
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 3: a real.

545
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 4: Adult rather than as a subsidiary of yourself, which I

546
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 4: think is how a lot of parents view their kids.

547
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 4: And there's a great book by Alfie Cohne called Unconditional Parenting.

548
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 4: I'm not a parent yet, but I enjoy reading parenting

549
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 4: books just because I think it's interesting and teaches you

550
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 4: a lot about life. But Unconditional Parenting talks about how, well, yeah, basically,

551
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 4: even when kids are young, trying to approach that in

552
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 4: a way where you're supportive of their feelings and supportive

553
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 4: of their autonomy as much as as possible. Obviously that

554
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 4: doesn't mean you shouldn't have boundaries and stuff and healthy

555
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 4: rules and things, but generally trying to be supportive of

556
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 4: the kids autonomy. I think the parents the family, so

557
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 4: I know where the parents are supportive of the kid's autonomy,

558
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 4: that's where the relationship thrives and where the kids actually

559
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 4: want to hang.

560
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 3: Out with the parents.

561
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 4: Whereas if a parent's not supportive of kid's autonomy and

562
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 4: tries to push your chorth them into do stuff, into

563
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 4: doing stuff, generally those relationships are kind of kind of

564
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 4: quite tense and a little bit fractured at least from

565
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 4: what I've seen.

566
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: I became a stepdad to a ten year old, and

567
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: so I dived in as fast as I could, and

568
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: the things that I learned about, you know, to be

569
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: honest about the way that people learn when we're little

570
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: and you know, in the realm of the latest book

571
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: you've written, how you know, when we're little kids, we're

572
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: fantastically productive and when we want it, we get shit done,

573
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: heaps of it, and then something we forget how to

574
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: do that.

575
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 2: It's quite interesting.

576
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: Is there something that we can see in our own

577
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: kids that we can remember to do ourselves when it

578
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: comes to being productive?

579
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 3: Nice?

580
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think the biggest thing is there's this

581
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 4: idea of play. You know, when we're kids, everything is play.

582
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 4: We do things for their own sake, We explore, we

583
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 4: take risks, exploring and taking risks as part of growing up.

584
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 3: But eventually, you.

585
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 4: Know, we get into the school system and we get

586
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 4: told that you know, you're allocated the fifteen minutes at

587
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 4: ten o'clock to play and fifteen minutes at lunchtime to play,

588
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 4: and after school you've got to make sure you do

589
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 4: a few hours of school work before you are.

590
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 3: Then allowed to play.

591
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: And even then in a lot of different countries and places,

592
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 4: like parents will be somewhat overprotective of their children playing

593
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 4: outside and say no, oh, like there's all these risks

594
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 4: associated with the outdoors, while not realizing that, like, you know,

595
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 4: there's way more there's way more risks online than there

596
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 4: are than there are outdoors. If we can kind of

597
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 4: find a way to remember what that exploration and what

598
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 4: that play was like when we were kids and try

599
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 4: and find a little bit more of that sense when

600
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 4: we're adults, that seems to hold the key to a

601
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 4: lot a lot of productivity and a lot of creativity.

602
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 4: So the first chapter of my book is literally titled Play,

603
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 4: and it's about how play is the most underrated productivity

604
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,959
Speaker 4: strategy out there. Where you know, there's interviews with Nobel

605
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 4: Prize winners and athletes and sort of super successful CEOs

606
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,239
Speaker 4: and stuff, and you know, often one thing that they

607
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 4: cite is that they find is that they treat their

608
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 4: work like play. They find a way to approach it

609
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 4: in a way that's fun, that's enjoyable. And I was

610
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 4: chatting to this executive coach a few weeks ago. We

611
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 4: were at this retreat, and this guy is the coach

612
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 4: to some of Silica valleys like top CEOs. He couldn't

613
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 4: tell me who his clients were, but he said, you know,

614
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 4: you would probably recognize all of them. And he said

615
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 4: one of his major mantras is that enjoyment is efficiency.

616
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: If you're enjoying your work, you are going to be more.

617
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 4: Efficient at it, which is really just the whole thesis

618
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 4: of my book, Feel Good Productivity. If you can find

619
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 4: a way to make your work feel good, if you

620
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 4: can approach it in that spirit of play, you're naturally

621
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 4: going to be more productive. You're going to be more creative,

622
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 4: you're going to be less stressed. Enjoyment is efficiency. And

623
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 4: so one thing that this guy name is Joe Hudson,

624
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 4: one thing he says to his team members is I

625
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 4: don't want you to try and do it right. I

626
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 4: just want you to try and enjoy yourself. And I

627
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 4: guarantee that if you're just trying to enjoy yourself, you

628
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 4: will do a better job than if you were trying

629
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 4: to do a better job. So that's something that I've

630
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 4: written that in the book.

631
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 3: I've written a book about it, and I still struggle

632
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 3: with this idea.

633
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 4: But whenever I find myself doing something that feels hard

634
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 4: or that feels like it's a lot of work. I'll

635
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 4: ask myself that question, what would this look like if

636
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 4: it were fun? How might I approa which in the

637
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 4: spirit of play? And then generally it becomes more fun

638
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 4: and I also become more productive and my output is

639
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 4: better for having asked myself that question.

640
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: Can I ask you for a real world example, like

641
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: what was something something that people would probably avoid that

642
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: they're dragged if I don't know, like putting it doing

643
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: your taxes all right, unless you can get an account

644
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: that do it for you. You're sitting there, You're battling

645
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: a website. It sucks, You're going through shoe boxes of invoices.

646
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: It's normal, it's not fun. Takes away forever. What's a way?

647
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: And you know that there's penalties if you get it wrong?

648
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,239
Speaker 1: You know, so it's frightening at the same time. So

649
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: what are some ways that you know to ask yourself

650
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: that question what would this look like if it was fun?

651
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: Like could you give us an idea of what that

652
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: might be?

653
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 3: Yeah? So people always.

654
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 4: With land on this example of like, oh, you know

655
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 4: what if not everything can be fun? You know, filing

656
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 4: my taxes. Isn't fun? Doing admin isn't fun. What to

657
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 4: do about that? Well, what I would say to that is, yes,

658
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 4: not everything can be one hundred percent fun, but you

659
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 4: can always find a way to make anything, like literally anything,

660
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: even filing the taxes, you can find a way to

661
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 4: make it five to ten percent more enjoyable.

662
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 3: So in my case, you know.

663
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 4: Yesterday I had to do the equivalent of filing my taxes.

664
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 4: It was like having to figure out some sort of

665
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 4: financial disclosure, to figure out some sort of tax situation

666
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 4: for the business. That's not particularly fun. How did I

667
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 4: find a way to make it fun? Well, you know,

668
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 4: I decided, okay, this is a boring thing. If this

669
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 4: were fun, I wouldn't be doing it at my desk.

670
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 4: So I took my laptop and I went down to

671
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 4: the local coffee shop, which is just like a couple

672
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 4: of minutes walk from me, and I ordered myself a

673
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 4: nice flat white and I was like, you know what,

674
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 4: I'd rather be in a more cozy atmosphere while I'm

675
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 4: doing this like tax situation rather than sitting at my desk.

676
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 4: I had my headphones with me and I was playing

677
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 4: some upbeat music. I think I was playing some like

678
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 4: what was it? Some take that in westlife, just just

679
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 4: for fun, because it sort of makes the thing feel

680
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 4: a little bit better. I had a friend with me

681
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 4: because I had a couple of team members and friends

682
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 4: coworking at my house. So one of my team members, saff,

683
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 4: was also one of my friends. I said, hey, saf

684
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 4: do you want to come over to the coffee shop?

685
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 4: And he had to take a call, so he took

686
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 4: a call from there. And so it's fairly basic stuff,

687
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 4: but anyone can ask themselves the question of, like, genuinely,

688
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 4: if this thing were fun or even just ten percent

689
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 4: more fun, what might that look like for me? I

690
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 4: think music is part of it. I think change of scenery.

691
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 4: Sometimes if a meeting is boring, I'll find it easier

692
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 4: to just sort of walk around and take it as

693
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 4: a walking meeting. I appreciate the nime, but that not

694
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 4: everyone can do that. So what my whole shtick in

695
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 4: the book and my kind of philosophy for productivity is,

696
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: I kind of think a productivity is.

697
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 3: A very personal thing.

698
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 4: Really, it's about running experiments and seeing what works for us.

699
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 4: So for me, one thing that makes everything way more

700
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 4: fun is just having film music from like the Lord

701
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 4: of the Rings or Pirates of the Caribbean or whatever

702
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 4: in the background.

703
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 3: It just makes it more fun.

704
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: What makes things more fun is having someone to work with,

705
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 4: ideally in person, but even just online works. Back back

706
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 4: in the pandemic, I used to join this London writer

707
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 4: salon where you would get on a zoom call four

708
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 4: times a day with a few hundred writers from all

709
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 4: around the world. Being on a zoom call with writers

710
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 4: from all around the world while everyone is doing their

711
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 4: writing just makes it a little bit, you know, a

712
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: little bit more fun. We've created a product, but does

713
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 4: this productivity lab where we get people in to do

714
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 4: focus sessions with other people we do like facilitated weekly

715
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 4: reflections with other people on a zoom call. That just

716
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 4: makes it more fun. One thing that makes things more

717
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 4: fun is taking things a little bit less seriously.

718
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: So even though this.

719
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 4: Tax situation is like, oh, you know, it's kind of

720
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 4: important that I fill out this financial disclosure because I

721
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 4: have to get it right because if I get it wrong,

722
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 4: I might get arrested for fraud or you know, all

723
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 4: of this stuff. Even so, it's still worth approaching it

724
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 4: with an attitude of ah, it's fine. It's sincere rather

725
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 4: than serious. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm going to try my

726
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 4: best with this, but I'm not gonna over worry about it,

727
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 4: because the additional worry that I at, the additional pressure

728
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 4: I ad to myself, does not actually improve my performance

729
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 4: on the task. It just makes me more stressed, and

730
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 4: chronic stress is generally bad for your life and bad

731
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 4: for your health.

732
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: I really like that.

733
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: There's another thing that you you talk about, which unless

734
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: you've learned it, I was lucky enough to be taught

735
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: this about ten or twelve years ago, the idea of

736
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: building systems into your life rather than having to.

737
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: Rely on oh I'll remember to do that.

738
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: Tell me if you will for people who've never thought

739
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: about what you mean, not build a system into my life?

740
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 2: What can that look like? And how can that? You know?

741
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 2: How can that make someone become more productive?

742
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 4: One way that I like to think of myself as

743
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 4: it relates to productivity is I am just a machine,

744
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 4: and a machine not in the not in the negative way,

745
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 4: but I'm just I'm just a computer, and I will

746
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 4: do whatever the program is designed for and whatever whatever

747
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 4: program is written and as part of the machine. So if,

748
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 4: for example, I find myself procrastinating from a task.

749
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 3: I don't think that.

750
00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 4: You know, if a computer was slow at doing thing

751
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 4: thing or took a while to start up, you wouldn't

752
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 4: blame the computer. You wouldn't say this computer has no

753
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 4: self worth, this computer has a bit of a waste

754
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 4: of space. Like why why is it procrastinating on this task?

755
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 4: It would say, Well, it's either a hardware problem or

756
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 4: a software problem. Either the computer is simply not fast

757
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 4: enough to cope with this task, which is these days

758
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 4: are not usually the case. That's a hardware problem, or

759
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 4: it's a software problem. The way that the system was

760
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 4: programmed makes this task particularly slow. And given that I

761
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: was into programming and stuff, I would always like when

762
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 4: you're debugging software, you're kind of going through and thinking,

763
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 4: what is the tweak I can make to the system

764
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 4: that's going to make this work more, That's going to make.

765
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 3: This work more effectively.

766
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 4: So in terms of systems for our own life, generally,

767
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 4: if we're struggling with something, it's either a hardware problem

768
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 4: or a software problem. The hardware problems are have I

769
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 4: had enough sleep? Am I eating reasonably well? Am I

770
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 4: exercising every day? If those things are sorted. A lot

771
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 4: of productivity problems will just take care of themselves. You know,

772
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 4: when I have four hours of sleep rather than eight

773
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 4: hours of sleep, I have a higher tendency to procrastinate

774
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 4: because I have a hardware issue. But then we've got

775
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 4: software issues, We've got things like you know, the other day,

776
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 4: I realized that, you know, I was getting to bed

777
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 4: quite late, like midnight one am. And so instead of thinking, oh,

778
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 4: I just need to get to bed on time, I

779
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 4: was like, Okay, well, what is happening in my life

780
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 4: that's causing me to go to bed at midnight. Then

781
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 4: I thought back to the last two weeks and I realized, well,

782
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 4: I intend to go to bed at ten pm. But

783
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 4: then as I'm getting ready for bed and I'm on

784
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 4: the toilet, I start scrolling on my phone and I

785
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 4: go on YouTube and I end up watching YouTube videos

786
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 4: until midnight or one am.

787
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 3: Huh, that's interesting.

788
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 1: Now.

789
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 4: At this point, I could tell myself, God, I'm such

790
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 4: an idiot. Why do I watch these YouTube videos? Why

791
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 4: don't I have self discipline? But I'm like, no, I'm

792
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 4: a machine. I'm a system, and the system is designed

793
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 4: to sort of seek out YouTube videos when it gets

794
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 4: to ten pm, and so I thought, okay, how do

795
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,959
Speaker 4: I stop that from happening? And I downloaded an app

796
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 4: called opal opl if anyone wants to download it, which

797
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 4: just blocks YouTube on my phone after nine pm, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter,

798
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: and Reddit. And it's like, weirdly hard to circumvent that

799
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 4: block using this app. So now it gets to ten pm,

800
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 4: I sit on the toilet, I scroll to YouTube and

801
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, it's great out Like I can't even

802
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 4: I can't actually go on the YouTube app. And then

803
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 4: I think, well, okay, cool, I might as well just

804
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 4: you know, get ready for bed and read a book

805
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 4: or something like that, and then I sleep on time.

806
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 4: And so at every stage of my day, whenever I

807
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 4: feel like I'm not being productive, and by productive I

808
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 4: mean I'm not using my time in a way that's

809
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 4: actually intentional. Like I don't intend to spend three hours

810
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 4: on YouTube. I just happened to spend three hours on YouTube.

811
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 4: That's an unintentional use of time. I'll figure I'll try

812
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 4: and figure out what is a system I can add

813
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 4: to my life, or what is something I can remove

814
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 4: that would make this way easier to do, Rather than

815
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 4: flagellating myself or beating myself up for not being sufficiently disciplined.

816
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: And I think for many people they may I guess

817
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: it's the why we got brought up or whatever, that

818
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: if you do sit on the toilet, not only will

819
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: you have a sore bumb, but you know, and nobody,

820
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: what are you doing tonight, I'm going to see on

821
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: the shitter and do three hours of just random YouTube.

822
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 2: Great night. No, like we never none.

823
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: Of us intend to do it, and we always feel

824
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: a bit awful when we've done it, but we're never

825
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: really taught that. Oh, by the time you're there, your

826
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: ability to make the choice not to is impossible. So

827
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: it's better to make the choice when you're not in

828
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: that state. And you know, similar things could be said

829
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: around like I'm sober fourteen years now, and so there's

830
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: definitely choices I make when I'm not in a state

831
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: where alcohol used to be a part of that, you know,

832
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: to make sure that when I do get to that

833
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: place that it's not an option. And there's certainly something

834
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: that as a doctor, you'd know this. You know, you

835
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: talk to your teenage kids about when they're going out.

836
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: You're like, you know, certainly if they start seeing it.

837
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: You know people that they're interested in sexually, you're like, well,

838
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 1: how do you feel about it? Well, make a choice

839
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: now rather than when you know the hormones are floating

840
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: through your body and your body's just telling you everything

841
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: about you need to have sex. Now you can remember, actually, no,

842
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: I thought earlier I didn't want to do this, and

843
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: that's right, so I'll just say no, thanks. Making the

844
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: choice away from the situation is really really important thing

845
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: to understand, and you know it's once you start doing it,

846
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: it's bonkers how much you get done.

847
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I completely agree.

848
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 4: I think that applies in a load of other places

849
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 4: as well, like where you separate the choice from the action. So,

850
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 4: for example, one thing I find super helpful to do

851
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 4: is to plan my day first thing in the morning. So,

852
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 4: first in the morning, I have a document that I

853
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 4: call my morning Manifesto that just asks me a handful

854
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,919
Speaker 4: of questions that just encourages me to plan my day.

855
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 4: And then once I've planned my day in the morning,

856
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 4: it's like that's where I have clarity. I'm having my

857
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 4: coffee and maybe doing some journaling and planning my day.

858
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 4: It takes like five ten minutes, but then I know

859
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 4: what I'm doing for the rest of the day, and

860
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 4: I don't have to think too hard about it, whereas

861
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 4: on days where I forget to do that, or if

862
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 4: I have like a meeting first thing in the morning

863
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 4: and then it sort of gets derailed and then I

864
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 4: forget to do it. There's like two parts of me

865
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 4: that are trying to work. There's the part that's trying

866
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 4: to figure out what the hell I actually want to do,

867
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 4: and then there's a part that's trying to figure out

868
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 4: how to actually do it. And then that becomes very difficult,

869
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 4: and I tend to make choices that are not in

870
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 4: lain with my best self, and I'm not intentional when

871
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 4: I have to do the planning and the doing at

872
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 4: the same time, I think separating the choice from the action,

873
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 4: separating the planning from the doing works on a bunch

874
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 4: of different levels as well.

875
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: Just a moment away from doctor a yav Dalta say

876
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: that if this show brings you some value, please tell someone,

877
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: share it, post it, tag it, find a thing that

878
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: we put on Instagram or TikTok and reshare it. Tell

879
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: your dermatologist, tell the garbo when you're at school this weekend.

880
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: That's sport by the side of a footy field. Just

881
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: you know, Sharon and s leave us. Puffer with the

882
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: writing pants is sharing on you on Jasper. Tell her

883
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: doesn't cost you a thing and makes us money. Look

884
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: at that. That's good because we're a fully independent broadcasting

885
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: thing now and this is the gig that I have.

886
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: So thank you.

887
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: With that in mind, here, somats, we are bombarded. If

888
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: you own a phone, you are bombarded, algorithmically bombarded with

889
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: imagery that tells you how you're doing. Okay, But look

890
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: at this person who's nearly your age, maybe even a

891
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: bit older, maybe even a bit younger.

892
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: Look at them hotter.

893
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: They're shagging someone a way, you know whatever, they're making

894
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: more money. It's to be drawn in by the seductiveness

895
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: of this idea. And certainly if you start being interested

896
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: in I don't know, for example, entrepreneurship or getting a

897
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: small business line, your ale algorithm will start feeding you.

898
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: You know, I get up every morning at four six,

899
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: which is ten minutes too late, and you know, hustled

900
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: and great like, it's really seductive, this idea of just grind, grind, grind.

901
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: What's your reaction when you see you know that kind

902
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: of thing being shouted from the rooftop.

903
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 4: I kind of think that there are two types of advice.

904
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 4: There is the advice that takes you from degenerate to

905
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 4: beast lane, and then there's advice that takes you from

906
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 4: beastline to thriving. Now, I think, if, for example, you're

907
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 4: a teenage boy addicted to video games and a David

908
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 4: Goggins like figure tells you that the solution to your

909
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 4: problems is to get up at five in the morning

910
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 4: and go for a run, I think there is merit

911
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 4: to that. I think for the teenage boy addicted to

912
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 4: video games, actually getting up at five in the morning

913
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 4: and going on a run while listening to David Goggins's

914
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 4: motivational stuff is actually quite a good thing. It gets

915
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 4: them from being a degenerate to at least being based

916
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 4: on your life, So that's pretty good. I think if

917
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 4: you're already at baseline where you're reasonably satisfied with how

918
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 4: your life is going, then the hustle grind to get

919
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 4: to thriving. I mean that tends to not be the

920
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 4: thing that gets you to thriving. The thing that gets

921
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 4: you to thriving is choosing the right game to play

922
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 4: and playing it in a.

923
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 3: Way that's enjoyable.

924
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 4: It's easy with the whole grind grind set mentality to

925
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 4: approach life with a sort of mistaking activity for progress,

926
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 4: where Okay, if I just wake up a o'clock and

927
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 4: just do the grind thing, then then my business will

928
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 4: will we'll go further or whatever. But usually once you've

929
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 4: achieved a certain a certain level of success, the next

930
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 4: levels of success don't come from putting in the grind.

931
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 4: They come from choosing the right game and from playing

932
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 4: it well. So I don't like to wholesale dismiss the

933
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 4: grind the grindset stuff because I think it does have

934
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 4: its place, in particular for the teenage boys who mostly

935
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 4: consume that stuff, because I know plenty of people that

936
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 4: listen to David Goggins and grindset stuff and started going

937
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 4: to the gym. And when once you start going to

938
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 4: the gym, you then start taking care of your diet.

939
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 4: Once you start taking care of your diet and going

940
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 4: to the gym, you feel more confident. Once you feel

941
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 4: more confident, you then stop playing video games and watching

942
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 4: porn as much, and it leads to a virtual cycle.

943
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 4: But I think it's the important to appreciate, like who

944
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 4: is the advice aimed at and not. I don't think

945
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 4: everyone should take the grindset philosophy wholesale.

946
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: Being yeah, being aware of when you're at a point

947
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: now where there's there's other stuff you need to do.

948
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 1: Now get the ideas to get to the next place.

949
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: And this might be a thing that is difficult for

950
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: some to understand. There's been a huge revelation at our home,

951
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: Ali in that a couple of months ago my wife approved,

952
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: bless her that we get a sauna in our backyard.

953
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 3: Nice.

954
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: I've never been more creative in my entire life because

955
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: now I have anywhere between thirty and forty five minutes

956
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: of just sitting there every day, and that kind of

957
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: deliberate time to not be in front of a device,

958
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: not be working, not be typing something out, not fixing

959
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: something in my studio, which is always something to do.

960
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 2: Just sitting there breathing.

961
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 1: The things that come into my brain and the ideas

962
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: I have are just profound.

963
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 2: But that is a heart.

964
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: I'm fifty, right, It's a hard sell to someone who's like,

965
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: but I've got to keep going.

966
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: All these people are successful.

967
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 1: How do you tell someone that a part of being

968
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 1: productive is to not do anything.

969
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 3: As you were saying that.

970
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 4: So I've got a personal trainer session in an hour,

971
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 4: and I've dec I'm going to go to the sauna

972
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 4: after that because i was thinking, oh damn, but I've

973
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 4: got this presentation to prepare, blah blah blah blah blah,

974
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 4: I should come home and start working. But actually spending

975
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 4: half an hour and sauna would probably be better for

976
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 4: the presentation than me just coming back home and typing

977
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 4: away on the presentation.

978
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:20,959
Speaker 3: So thank you for that. I will hit the sauna

979
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 3: straight off to the gym.

980
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 4: I think people are often stuck in the model of

981
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 4: factories in the industrial Revolution, of like, if I just

982
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 4: crank out more widgets, then my thing will be successful.

983
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 4: And again, there are times in your life where that's true.

984
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 4: But most again, most business growth does not come from

985
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 4: doing more of the things. It's very kind of like

986
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 4: employee thinking. If you're like an employee at a company

987
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 4: and you're like fairly new to the world of work,

988
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 4: you think, if I just work harder, they'll see how

989
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 4: hard I'm working and they'll give me a raise. You

990
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 4: realize very quickly in the workplace that's not how it works.

991
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 3: The value is not created from the person who's just

992
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 3: doing more stuff. The value is.

993
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 4: Created from that one creative idea that takes the business

994
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 4: that ten x is the business, and those creative ideas

995
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 4: that create a step change in performance, they tend not

996
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 4: to come when you're at your desk. They tend to

997
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 4: come when you're in sauna or in the shower, or

998
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 4: having a walk, or just giving yourself space to allow

999
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 4: the subconscious or the default mode network or whatever you

1000
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 4: want to call it, part of the brain to actually function.

1001
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,919
Speaker 4: So there's a middle way. As with all things, there's

1002
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 4: definitely a balance here. But I think it's worth asking

1003
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 4: what's the game that you're playing and what is the

1004
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 4: next level of success of that game? In your case,

1005
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 4: waking up five hours earlier and cranking out more podcast

1006
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 4: episodes is unlikely to be the major thing that grows

1007
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 4: your podcast. You know what grows a podcast, Well, it's

1008
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 4: getting a really famous guest on clipping and creating loads

1009
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 4: of clips with good titles and thumbnails, and having a

1010
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 4: show that generally people recommend through word of ealth. If

1011
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 4: you've never done a podcast before, then yeah, for your

1012
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 4: first ten twenty thirty episodes. It's good to get in

1013
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 4: the reps. Maybe working harder and doing more stuff is

1014
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 4: helpful then, but beyond that point, doing more reps and

1015
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 4: putting up more episodes is not the thing that grows

1016
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 4: a podcast because no one is saying, oh my god,

1017
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 4: I wish my favorite podcast had more episodes, because like,

1018
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 4: there's already too much content out there, So it becomes

1019
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 4: a creative task rather than a I guess productive task.

1020
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 4: I think I find it useful to keep that in mind. Well,

1021
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 4: whenever I'm in whenever I'm in danger of going into

1022
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 4: grind set territory, I think, wait, is working harder on

1023
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 4: this actually going to lead to the result that I want?

1024
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 4: Or is it some sort of creative breakthrough that's going

1025
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,479
Speaker 4: to to lead to the result that I think I want?

1026
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 4: And the creative breakthrough requires a hell of a lot

1027
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 4: of rest. So that's kind of how I approach it.

1028
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: Since I was a you know kid, everything that shows

1029
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 1: up like the fax machine, it's a time saving device.

1030
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: You no longer have to go to the post ofvis Similarly,

1031
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: when BlackBerry showed up, everything is like now you know, Chat,

1032
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 1: GPT and Gemini, etc.

1033
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 2: It's a time saving device.

1034
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: What, in your opinion, do you think is the one

1035
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: property that whatever time saving device we're being sold, what

1036
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: do you think it needs to have to be actually

1037
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: be a time saving devices?

1038
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think a lot of these devices save time.

1039
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 4: The problem is then what you do with the time

1040
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 4: that you've saved. So, for example, Gemini and chat GPT

1041
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 4: help save time. As it relates to banging out a

1042
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 4: first draft of a thing. There's a product that we're

1043
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 4: building internally as a team called voice Pal, which is

1044
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 4: in beta at the moment, and so you basically like

1045
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 4: talk into it and then it will transcribe what you're

1046
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 4: saying and turn it into a first draft. So I

1047
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 4: write a weekly email newsletter, and so before voice Pal,

1048
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 4: that would have taken me two hours to sort of

1049
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 4: figure out what I want to say, type it out.

1050
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 3: Blahlah blah, blahlah blah.

1051
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 4: But after voice Pal, I can go for a walk,

1052
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 4: I can like talk into the thing, it can generate

1053
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 4: the first draft, and then I spent half and our editing,

1054
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 4: So it cuts down the two hours to one hour

1055
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 4: for writing my newsletter. So it is a time saving

1056
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 4: device in that this thing that once took two hours

1057
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 4: now only takes one hour. But then the question becomes

1058
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 4: what do I do with that hour that I've saved? Now,

1059
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 4: usually I write my newsletter on a weekend on a Sunday,

1060
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 4: because I leave it till Sunday to send, and so

1061
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 4: with that hour that I've saved, I generally chill out

1062
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 4: and maybe play on the PlayStation or maybe read a book.

1063
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 4: And so I think that's a genuine time save, Like

1064
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 4: it genuinely has saved my time, and that means it

1065
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 4: means I can use that time on a thing that

1066
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 4: provides rest and relaxation and vibes, like reading or playing

1067
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 4: a video game. But if it was saving me time

1068
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 4: in my workday, and then that extra hour I was

1069
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 4: just using on more things that didn't actually move the needle,

1070
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 4: that were just busy work that weren't addressing the bottleneck

1071
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 4: in whatever goal I'm working towards.

1072
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 3: Now, it's like, yes, the.

1073
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 4: Device or the software or whatever saved time, but I've

1074
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 4: just squandered the time that I've saved on something that's

1075
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 4: not actually moving the needle forward.

1076
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 2: Why should we focus on being more reductive?

1077
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 1: Why can't we just go, well, everything's fine, my job's fine,

1078
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 1: I'm doing okay. Why do I need to have a

1079
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: look at how I do my job or get my

1080
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 1: dat done.

1081
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question.

1082
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 4: I don't believe in the words should, like there are

1083
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 4: no shoulds. It's like you can basically do whatever you want.

1084
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 4: And so whenever I give productivity advice, I like to

1085
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 4: preface it, like if I'm giving talks and stuff by

1086
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 4: saying that, look, this is not life advice.

1087
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 3: I don't know what I'm talking about.

1088
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 4: Like, your life is very different to mine, probably, and

1089
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 4: your goals are going to be different to mine. So

1090
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 4: advice is only useful in so far as that it

1091
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 4: helps take you towards your goals. So if someone, for example,

1092
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 4: has the goal of being financially free and having enough

1093
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 4: passive income to fund their lifestyle, then okay, once that

1094
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 4: person has decided that that is their goal, then you

1095
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 4: kind of need a bit of productivity to get there.

1096
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 4: You're probably not going to get to that goal by

1097
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 4: just chilling at your job and you know, working nine

1098
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 4: to five and then coming home and repeating the process and.

1099
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 3: Nothing too hard about it.

1100
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 4: But you probably won't get to the goal of financial

1101
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 4: freedom unless you're like a hedge fund manager or a

1102
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 4: job that pays you millions. That's if that is your goal,

1103
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 4: but it doesn't have to be your goal. And in

1104
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 4: many ways, where like I know a lot of people

1105
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 4: who are as I'm sure you do, are like super

1106
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 4: sexful and successful entrepreneurs, authors, people who specialize in giving

1107
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 4: advice about this sort of stuff. A lot of people

1108
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 4: eventually land on get to the idea of you know what, actually,

1109
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 4: my life right now is really good and I no

1110
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 4: longer need to strive for more, and that's a good

1111
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 4: place to be. I am sort of at the point

1112
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:33,919
Speaker 4: where I'm like, you know what, life is pretty good

1113
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 4: and I don't really feel the need to strive for more.

1114
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 4: I want to do it anyway because it's fun and

1115
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 4: because growing the business is sort of like playing a

1116
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 4: video game and it's just good vibes. And I might

1117
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 4: as well because I need to do something to pass

1118
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 4: the time. But I think it just really depends on

1119
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 4: what the goal is. One exercise I like to do

1120
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 4: with people when ofm having conversations is like a Wheel

1121
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 4: of Life, which is in the final chapter of my book,

1122
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 4: but you can also just google it if you just

1123
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 4: search Wheel of Life, And basically the idea is that

1124
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 4: you go through like work, health, relationships, and in a

1125
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 4: few different categories, and you just rate yourself on a

1126
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 4: scale of zero to ten for how aligned you feel

1127
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 4: in that area, how much satisfaction you have in that area.

1128
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 4: And if your satisfaction is ten out of ten in

1129
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,919
Speaker 4: all areas of life, amazing, you are literally living the dream.

1130
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 4: But if your satisfaction maybe on friends front, is like

1131
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 4: four out of ten, you're like, huh, maybe I could

1132
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 4: do with seeing my friends a bit more often. Now

1133
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, cool, Now let's apply the principles of productivity.

1134
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 4: Let's start putting shit in the calendar. Let's start sending

1135
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 4: out recurring calendar invites. Let's start a little spreadsheet of

1136
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 4: our friends so that we can keep track of who

1137
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 4: we've seen, and like, oh, I haven't reached out to

1138
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 4: Johnny in a while, let me reach out to Johnny. Now,

1139
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 4: productivity helps as a way of getting us to the goal,

1140
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 4: which is to help us be more satisfied with that

1141
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 4: area of life. So I think a lot of it

1142
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 4: just comes down to what is the goal, and then

1143
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 4: what specific productivity advice is helpful as a way of

1144
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 4: helping you get to the goal.

1145
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: I would add that the knowledge that moving towards it

1146
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: releases those feelings of hey, this is fine, this is good,

1147
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: or I'm getting somewhere in a way that it otherwise doesn't,

1148
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: and there is I personally, I find a huge personal

1149
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 1: reward of moving towards those things, even when I am

1150
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: just another person in a room of everybody who's as

1151
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: good as me to go back to, you know, talk

1152
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: about early on in the university days, when now you're

1153
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: suddenly one of many rather than the only one. It

1154
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: is moving towards those goals and the little adjustments I

1155
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: make in my own life, the tiny little wins that

1156
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 1: give me that oh little lift of like I've nailed that.

1157
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: I figured that out. That's cool, and that gives me

1158
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: incentive to do it again and again, and that's actually

1159
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 1: kind of fun.

1160
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: That's a nice way to work.

1161
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:37,919
Speaker 3: Through your day.

1162
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 2: And regardless of whether it makes money or not, it's

1163
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: actually good.

1164
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: It's active, feels good to be expansive, I guess, but

1165
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 1: that's just my experience.

1166
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 2: Ali. Thank you so much.

1167
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: You're a very busy man, and I can't thank you

1168
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: enough for taking the time to fit us in with

1169
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:54,919
Speaker 1: your day.

1170
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 2: You know, you're very busy. Very productive man, but thank

1171
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 2: you so much.

1172
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 1: Enjoy sitting in that sauna amongst the sweat and steam

1173
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: and getting those dine orphans pumping.

1174
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

1175
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 4: This has been super fun and I really appreciate you

1176
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 4: taking the time.

1177
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 2: That was Dr Ali Abdah.

1178
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: You can find him on YouTube on TikTok grab his

1179
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: new book. I'll put the link to all those things

1180
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: in the show notes. I think I'll also put in

1181
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: a if you check there, I'll make sure. I'll put

1182
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: in a values quiz, this simple online one.

1183
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: I'll find one somewhere. If you've not done one before, or.

1184
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: If you're not done one in a while, it's very,

1185
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: very worth it. It can be quite helpful when it

1186
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: comes to decision making, and that certainly helped me make

1187
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: decisions a little less emotionally reactive and more in aligned

1188
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: with alignment with what it is that I.

1189
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,399
Speaker 2: Want to be in the world. It's really useful. Thank

1190
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 2: you so much for listening.

1191
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: And now here are the credits read by an AI

1192
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 1: clone of me with limited pronunciation skills and a strange

1193
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: American accent.

1194
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 5: This episode was brought to you by Andy Maher on

1195
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:58,240
Speaker 5: Audio post production Becksied on video post production, Toe Hyder

1196
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 5: on music. My producer is and my executive function assistant

1197
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 5: is Monica Chapman for every episode ever. To get on

1198
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 5: the mailing list or to get in touch through the

1199
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 5: contact form, head to Ashurginsburg dot com.

1200
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.