1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's it's the new project. Of 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: course it is. It's your favorite podcast. That may not 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: be true. Maybe it's just a podcast, could be your favorite. 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: I hope it is. 5 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: Tiffany and Cook's probably probably one of your favorites. If 6 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: this is one of your favorites, Hi, tiv. 7 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 3: High Harps, it's one of my favorites, that's for sure. 8 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: Is it in the top five, It's definitely in the 9 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: top five. It's just in my top five, and it's 10 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: my show. 11 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: So it's like it comes in at number five, it 12 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: comes in at number five. That's not true. I don't 13 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 2: even listen. I listened a bit. I just had actually 14 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 2: two minus before we went live. Andrew May, who's been 15 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 2: on the podcast too as his own podcast of course, 16 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: High Performance Coach. 17 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: Man about Tanny Rangmini, just said he was listening to 18 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: the show and he loves it. 19 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: And I'm like, it's nice when other people who have 20 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: their own shows listen to our show and say nice things. 21 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: A little bit of validation. 22 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: But I get which you would think, because everyone thinks 23 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 2: I've got a big head, maybe that I would like 24 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: listening to me. 25 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: I actually do not like listening to me. At all. 26 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: I would rather I reckon out of the twenty twenty 27 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: or so that we've done, I've maybe listened to two 28 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: podcasts right through, like Start Finish two, and maybe not 29 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: even right through. I just I don't like the sound 30 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: of my own voice. I'm very familiar with it, but 31 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: I don't like the sound of it. And I, yeah, 32 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: what about you, gilespo do you You probably don't hear 33 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: a lot of yourself, or do you. 34 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 4: I used to do a lot of media, and you know, 35 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 4: television shows and so on, when various books came out. 36 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 4: I can't stand watching or listening to myself. Most people 37 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 4: don't like it much, and you know why, because of 38 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 4: the way you sound in your head is very, very 39 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 4: different to the way you sound when it's recorded, because 40 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 4: it's much much deeper and more resonant when you're hearing it, 41 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 4: because of the vibrations and so on, of the bonestructures 42 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 4: in your skull. And people always say I feel like 43 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 4: I sound a lot tinier in you know, when when 44 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 4: I hear myself played back, and I agree with that 45 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 4: sounds awful. I wish I sounded the way I sound 46 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 4: to me, but very few people do. And they've got 47 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 4: jobs in radio, because you will have met many of 48 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 4: those people, especially deep voiced people, particularly deep voiced females, 49 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 4: are the ones who work best in radio. 50 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: That's right, and welcome back to the You Project. 51 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: David Glesbie, Tivanty and Cook joining me Craig Harper for 52 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 2: another compelling episode of the U Project. That's funny you 53 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 2: say that, right, because I mentioned this in my presentations 54 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: quite often when we're talking about self awareness. And we 55 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: were briefly talking about my PhD focus before we started recording, 56 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: and you know, what's it like being around me? And 57 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: as way of introduction to the idea of metaperception and 58 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: kind of this kind of external self awareness concept, I 59 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: say to people, put up your hand if you've heard 60 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: your voice, you know, audio recording. And everybody kind of 61 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 2: shakes their head and goes ah and puts up their hand. 62 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: And then I say, depending on which environment, something like, 63 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 2: put your hand back up if you think you sound shit, 64 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: And everybody puts their hand back up, and I say, well, 65 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: that's how you sound all the time to the rest 66 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: of the world, and then they laugh and I go, 67 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: that's kind of a bit of an analogy here, because 68 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 2: we that is what you sound like. And even I mean, 69 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: you've seen yourself on TV. I did a bit of 70 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: tally for a while for a few years on Channel ten, 71 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: and the same it's like, I didn't watch I watched one. 72 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: I watched one, the first one I ever did, and 73 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: I hated it so much. I never watched another one. 74 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: And even if I would come into whatever, the house 75 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: or the gym or whatever and it was on, I 76 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: would not watch it. 77 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what about but anyway. 78 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, I know I avoided at all costs. I won't 79 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 4: watch myself. I won't even to the point, as you've 80 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 4: seen here, I don't even turn my camera on here 81 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 4: because it's so irritating to see myself. 82 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: That is that is that is an unknown now known. 83 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: We may have mentioned it once maybe, but everybody David 84 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: David said, I don't know how many, like a lot, 85 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: one hundred podcasts with us, maybe more, maybe less, I 86 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: don't know, but give I'll take a hundred and for 87 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: every single second of every one of these recordings that 88 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: we do with him, we've never seen his face. 89 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: He could be a fucking you know computer, he could 90 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: be a side. 91 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm an AI. Yeah, that's right. 92 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: It could be one of those super computer they call it. 93 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: You could be a quantum computer for all we know, 94 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: just managing everything and multitasking. 95 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. 96 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: Why do you just not like to see yourself when 97 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: you're talking? Is it better for focus and concentration or 98 00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 2: it just that? 99 00:04:58,960 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, a brough head. 100 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 4: Well it's that too. It's it's all of those things. 101 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 4: It helps me focus if if I'm not looking at myself. 102 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 4: But it also yeah, yeah, so I've got a rough head. 103 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: Yet you're you're a right ma. 104 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: You're handsome to us and your mum. So you wrote 105 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: an article today about breast cancer, which I have not Sorry, yeah, 106 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: breast cancer which I have not looked at. 107 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 4: What was that about? 108 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: What was I only? 109 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 4: All right? 110 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 1: Throw me under the bus. 111 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 4: You should be you should be hanging off off my 112 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 4: every written word. Yeah I am. It's been up there 113 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 4: for three or four hours and you haven't even bothered 114 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 4: to look at it. 115 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: Well, I finally I could see your face, I'd feel 116 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: more connected. 117 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's the missing link. What tell 118 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: us about that article if you would. 119 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,119 Speaker 4: Okay, so before we get to the thing it's about, 120 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 4: which is a very recent study, let's do a little 121 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 4: bit of history. You know, you you'd be familiar, no doubt, Craig, 122 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 4: But just for the benefit of some of your listeners, 123 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 4: with good old Bernardino Ramezini. 124 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I call him, I call him, but go on. 125 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 4: Yet he's generally considered to be the father of occupational medicine, 126 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 4: so you know that would ring a bell with you, 127 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 4: no doubt. He wrote a paper, well the book really, 128 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 4: in seventeen thirteen, and he published it just a year 129 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 4: before he died. Coincidentally, but the book was the very 130 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 4: first time anyone had bothered to look at what people 131 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 4: did as a job and compare it to the diseases 132 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 4: they most often died from. So he looked at everything. 133 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 4: He had hundreds and hundreds of jobs, and he would compare. 134 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 4: He did all this analysis of what are these people 135 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 4: do and what do they die from? And it's all 136 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 4: very very interesting if you care to go and read it, 137 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 4: and you can read Latin. But for the of today's discussion, 138 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 4: he also noticed a really interesting thing, which is that 139 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 4: nuns were more likely to die of breast cancer than 140 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 4: people who were not nuns. 141 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: Can I guess why? 142 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, go for it. 143 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: I can't remember the mechanism. But because having children and 144 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: breastfeeding is protective in some way from breast cancer. I 145 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 2: can't remember the why or the how, but it's got 146 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: there with them. It's got something to do with not 147 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 2: having kids. 148 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 4: I think, well that's what he thought too, So you're 149 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 4: on the same page with old br as you like 150 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 4: to call him. And yeah, and he didn't quite go 151 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 4: to the children, but he just stopped at the sex 152 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 4: bit and decided that not having sex was going to 153 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 4: give you a breast cancer. He didn't really bother to 154 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 4: explain why that might be. But subsequently, you know, less 155 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 4: than one hundred years later, people started to analyze it 156 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 4: a bit and came to the conclusion you did, which is, well, 157 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 4: obviously it's not really about having sex or not having sex, 158 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 4: you know, it's you know, for all we know, nuns 159 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 4: were having sex, but they weren't having children, and so 160 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 4: maybe it's about the kids. And then people went a 161 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 4: little step further and said, well, what the kids do 162 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 4: that might affect the parents' chances of breast cancer? The 163 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 4: kids do anything with breasts that might in some way 164 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 4: affect their chances, And they thought, oh, there's an obvious 165 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 4: connection between having kids and breast cancer is that, you know, 166 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 4: that's the mechanism for feeding them. So maybe breastfeeding has 167 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 4: something to do with breast cancer. And so they theorized. 168 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 4: After backing up his studies, they did more observations and 169 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 4: and even outside nuns concluded that there was a very 170 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 4: definite relationship between whether or not you breastfeed and whether 171 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 4: or not you've got breast cancer. And they didn't know why. 172 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 4: They had a theory which was, oh, look, it's about 173 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 4: the maturity of the breast cells. You know, obviously they're 174 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 4: there to become mature and produce milk, and that action 175 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 4: means that they become less grown to cancer, whereas the 176 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 4: immature version of them is somehow more prone to cancer. 177 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: And as a dodgy theory for it, it does sound 178 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: like a. 179 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 4: Dodgy theory, But for three hundred years, it was all 180 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 4: we had until this month. So were you to ask 181 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 4: a specialist in this area, what's the thinking on this 182 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 4: a month or two ago, that's the ants he would 183 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 4: have gotten. Now a massive new paper has come out 184 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 4: in Nature, which we were talking before about the levels 185 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 4: of journals. This is about as tier one ish as 186 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 4: you can get. And this is looked in more detail 187 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 4: at this and they started out sort of what kicked 188 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 4: off the study is that they had a cohort of 189 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 4: around two hundred and sixty samples from women who had 190 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 4: had breast tissue removed either from breast reduction surgery or 191 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 4: from preemptive mastectomies and a people. And they had this 192 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 4: sample of two hundred and sixty from two hundred and 193 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 4: sixty different individuals, and none of the tissue was cancer affected. 194 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 4: But what they were doing was measuring something called the 195 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 4: immune T cells in the cancer. This is a sort 196 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 4: of an immune system response that helps combat cancer. So 197 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 4: these are cells that are part of the immune system that, 198 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 4: among other things, can target potential cancer cells in tissue. 199 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 4: And what they found is that a lot, there were 200 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 4: a lot more of these cancer protective cells, these T 201 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 4: cells in the breast tissue of women who had had children, 202 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 4: And even if the tissue had been sampled a long 203 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 4: time after their last child, they still had many, many 204 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 4: more of these protective cells in their breast tissue than 205 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 4: women who had not had children. And this started them 206 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 4: down the path of saying, well, maybe it's not about 207 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 4: this maturity of breast cells nonsense. That we've been believing 208 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 4: for the last three hundred years. And maybe it's not 209 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 4: about being a nun or not on whether or not 210 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 4: you have sex or not. Maybe it's about these immune 211 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 4: systemselves in the tissues. Okay, good theory, but you have 212 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 4: to go a little bit further than that, because that's 213 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 4: just correlation, and as you know, that doesn't prove anything. 214 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 4: So I said, okay, well, what kind of a study 215 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 4: could we create that might prove something? And they went 216 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 4: straight to the porld lab rats and mice it was 217 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 4: actually mice in this case, and set up three different 218 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 4: cohorts of test mice. They had mice with pups, mice 219 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 4: without pups, and a third group that had undergone a 220 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 4: full lactation and winning cycle so had breastfeed essentially. Then 221 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 4: they implanted cancer cells into the equivalent of the breast 222 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 4: tissue in these animals, and the results really were about 223 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 4: as black and white as you could possibly imagine them 224 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 4: to be. The cancer cells were much less frequent, so 225 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 4: the cells were implanted, so gave them cancer essentially, but 226 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 4: it didn't turn into cancer in the group that had 227 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 4: gone through the lactation cycle. In other words, the group 228 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 4: that had breastfed, even if they weren't breastfeeding, if you like, 229 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 4: at that time they'd gone through that cycle. And when 230 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 4: they analyzed, well, there was many, much much higher percentage 231 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 4: of these T cells in those animals than in the others. 232 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,719 Speaker 4: And just to test it out even more, they then 233 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 4: suppressed the T cell action in those ones, and the 234 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 4: cancer grew just as fast as in the others, So 235 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 4: that pretty much definitively nailed it. Yes, it's the T 236 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 4: cells that are doing this, at least in mice, and 237 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 4: it kind of looks like it might be in humans 238 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 4: as well, because we're seeing a similar effect. But to 239 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 4: take it back to the humans, they then looked at 240 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 4: two large studies of more than a thousand women who 241 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 4: had been diagnosed with a particular type of breast cancer 242 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 4: called triple negative breast cancer, which is a particularly aggressive 243 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 4: sort of breast cancer people often refer to as the 244 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 4: as the bracker breast cancer. It affects women under forty, 245 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 4: much more aggressive than most and much more resistant to treatment. 246 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 4: And they looked at studies of those where they had 247 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 4: been measuring They collected data on whether or not the 248 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 4: women had breast fed, and what they found is that 249 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 4: the women who had breastfed were much less risk and 250 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 4: much more likely to recover from this particularly aggressive cancer 251 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 4: than those who had not. So that's about as good 252 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 4: as you can get without, you know, going the full 253 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 4: Monty and dividing women into groups of women who have 254 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 4: breastfed and women who are having implanted cancer cells in them, 255 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 4: which you know, ethics people will have a problem with, I. 256 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: Guess I think so. Yeah, it might have hard getting 257 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: ethical approval on that. 258 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 4: Always people who worry about these sorts of things. But 259 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 4: this gets about as close as you possibly can to 260 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 4: doing that. So they've observed it in human tissue, they've 261 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 4: replicated it in mice, they've gone back to the humans 262 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 4: and seen exactly the same effect in humans when the 263 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 4: humans have breastfed. And then and there's still one remaining 264 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 4: thing coming back to your mate from seventeen hundred is 265 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 4: what if it's not about the breastfeeding, but what if 266 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 4: it's about having the kids in some other way, and 267 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 4: it's not the breastfeeding, it's having the kids, Because both 268 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 4: of those things tend to go together. And you know, 269 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 4: how can we say we're certainty gets the breastfeeding and 270 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 4: not having the kids and The interesting thing is there 271 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 4: that they did segment the study a bit and look 272 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 4: at some US studies on African American women who have 273 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 4: different rates of cancer than Caucasian women, and were able 274 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 4: to by doing some statistical analysis on that. So African 275 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 4: American women tend to have a higher rate of triple 276 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 4: negative breast cancer and also on average have more children, 277 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 4: but they have lower rates of breastfeeding than Caucasian women. 278 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 4: And what they found was that it's the breastfeeding part 279 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 4: that provides the protection. So if the breadth, if the 280 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 4: African American woman had more children but also breastfeed, then 281 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 4: she was more less luckly to have the cancer. Now 282 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 4: this kind of backs up some observational studies have been 283 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 4: done for quite some time in Australia where they've observed 284 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 4: there is something that you can measure here. They've actually 285 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 4: managed to put some numbers on this, which is that 286 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 4: various studies are shown that a woman's risk of breast 287 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 4: cancer decreases by about seven percent for every child she has, 288 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 4: and then in addition to that, for every five months 289 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 4: of breastfeeding, the risk further reduces by about two percent. Wow. Wow, 290 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 4: So this stuff is measurable now they've got a good 291 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 4: explanation as to why. Now, this is all very interesting 292 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 4: if you, I guess, into immunotherapy and understanding the immune 293 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 4: system and all that sort of thing. But coming back 294 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 4: to the sort of thing that I guess people might 295 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 4: want to ask, which is, well, sure, but I don't 296 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 4: plan to have kids, let alone breastfeed anyone might it 297 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 4: might be something that it's occurring to people. So you know, yes, 298 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 4: just raising her hands in the air, So how do 299 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 4: you reduce the risk. And the answer would be if 300 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 4: you're only looking at this, then there's probably not much 301 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 4: you can do other than to find someone to breastfeed. 302 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, put that on your list, will you. That's Golespo's 303 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 2: little bit of health advice for you today. So if 304 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 2: you can get some breastfeeding going in the next few months. 305 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 2: But I guess that's the most practical piece of advice 306 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 2: is given. 307 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 4: May not be, may not be. The interesting thing here 308 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 4: is the background of the overall significantly increasing rates of 309 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 4: breast cancer. And this is always sort of not looked 310 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 4: at in these sorts of studies. Is they're just looking 311 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,239 Speaker 4: at the immediate problem and saying, okay, you know, are 312 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 4: there things that make you more or less susceptible to this, 313 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 4: and yes, all this is very interesting from that perspective, 314 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 4: but there's a background picture here, which is breast cancer 315 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 4: rates in this country are going through the roof, not 316 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 4: deaths from breast cancer, which is the statistic that often 317 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 4: gets reported because treatments are very effective. It's being picked 318 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 4: up very early. Survival rates are very high breast cancer, 319 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 4: but the incidence is increasing very rapidly. And a more 320 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 4: important question to ask when you're talking about all these 321 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 4: things about are you more or less likely to have 322 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 4: breast cancer if you breastfeed, is what about that background 323 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 4: rate that's massively increasing. What's causing that? Before we start 324 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 4: getting down to finessing whether or not you're breastfeeding, and 325 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 4: we've had this discussion before, it's the same thing that 326 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 4: causes all cancers. It's the same reason that all cancers 327 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 4: are growing very very rapidly. It's something called aldehydes. Aldehydes 328 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 4: are extremely destructive molecules that when we ingest them, attack 329 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 4: our DNA, dismember it, mutate, it make us more likely 330 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 4: to get cancer of any kind. And we are very 331 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 4: familiar with two aldehyde producing substances, alcohol and cigarette smoke. 332 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 4: Which are both great at producing aldehyde and therefore causing cancers, 333 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 4: but both have been declining. So you know, the current 334 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 4: generation of teenagers drink less than anyone before in history, 335 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 4: but they're having more cancer. There's less smoking going on 336 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 4: now than Australia has had at any time since the 337 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 4: Second World War. Even if there is a black market 338 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 4: trade in the stuff growing up because of all the taxes, 339 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 4: it's still a lot less than it was. But the 340 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 4: rates are going up, and that's because we've introduced a 341 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 4: massive new source of aldehyde into our diet, which is 342 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 4: the granddaddy of them all, the one that produces the 343 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 4: worst kind of aldehyde, a little chap called four HNE 344 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 4: is seed oils. So the fats that they fry our 345 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 4: chips in, the fats in the margarine they put on 346 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 4: our sandwich in the deli, the fat in the mayonnaise 347 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 4: they spread on our sandwich in the deli, the fat 348 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 4: the fat they put in our bread. All those seed 349 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 4: oils are very very high in amiga six fats, which 350 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 4: are the only way to produce four HNE, one of 351 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 4: the more most dangerous alder hides we can consume. So 352 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 4: at the same time as societally we probably have less 353 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 4: women who are breastfeeding for all number of reasons, less 354 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 4: women having children. For starters, the Australian birth rate is 355 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 4: dropping like a stone, so less women having children and 356 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 4: therefore less women breastfeeding, which is a protective mechanism according 357 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 4: to this science. At exactly the same time as we're 358 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 4: doing that, we're giving those women a source of aldehydes, 359 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 4: which that no women in history have ever been exposed to. 360 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 4: So we're massively increasing the things that could cause cancer 361 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 4: in the first place, as at a time when societally, 362 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 4: for a large number of reasons, we have women who 363 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 4: are less likely to have the natural built in protection 364 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 4: that this science says comes from breastfeed. Now, what this 365 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 4: doesn't say is if you don't breastfeed, you will get 366 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 4: breast cancer. It doesn't say that that's nonsense. This is 367 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 4: population level stuff. But what it does say is we 368 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 4: have a trend in society where less people are breastfeeding, 369 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 4: which is a protective factor, and we have a simultaneous 370 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 4: trend where we are giving those same people a much 371 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 4: higher exposure to things that are likely to cause cancer. 372 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, is the decline in breastfeeding primarily about just the 373 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 2: decline in number of people that are giving birth, like 374 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: the dropping birth rate, or is it because there's another 375 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 2: reason people are choosing formula or whatever. I'm thinking that 376 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: the companies that produce formula won't like this research. 377 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 4: Look, there's always been an endless battle ever since the 378 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 4: Nesle battles. I think it was in the nineteen sixties 379 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 4: where they tried to well, they did get half of 380 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 4: Africa basically consume formula rather than breastfeeding, which caused all 381 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 4: sorts of much more acute complications than the ones we're 382 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 4: talking about here, because they would have to use water 383 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 4: to make the formula, and the water wasn't particularly safe, 384 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 4: so it was very, very dangerous. Legislation came in worldwide, 385 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 4: including it in Australia where breastfeeding must be promoted first. 386 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 4: And if you ever go to one of those websites 387 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 4: of a formula manufacturer, the first thing you'll see when 388 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 4: you go to a website like that is something to 389 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 4: the effect of breastfeeding first. You know, breastfeeding should be 390 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 4: done first, it's highest priority, et cetera, et cetera. They 391 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 4: do that because they're required to do that by legislation, 392 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 4: not because they want to do it, and they try 393 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 4: all kinds of tricky ways to get around it, like, 394 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 4: for example, branding toddler formula to be exactly the same 395 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 4: as formula formula for baby. So there's formula for babies 396 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 4: which has mandated levels of certain things in it because 397 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 4: it's a replacement for breast milk, and they'll branded exactly 398 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 4: the same as this is stage one or stage two 399 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 4: or stage three, et cetera of the formula. They branded 400 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 4: exactly the same for toddler formula, which is just basically 401 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 4: chocolate milk. So the companies try all kinds of tricks 402 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 4: to have people preferring to use that than breastfeeding. The reality, though, 403 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 4: of modern life is almost all mothers have to work 404 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 4: and have to work, have to get back to work 405 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 4: very very quickly, and we are not a society that 406 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 4: accommodates breastfeeding and work very very well at all. You know, 407 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 4: every now and then there's a flare up in social 408 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 4: media about someone being attacked for breastfeeding in public, et cetera, 409 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 4: et cetera. It's just a reality, is that the society 410 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 4: of our grandparents, where the mother didn't have a job 411 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 4: and stayed home and breastfeed the kids for a year 412 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 4: is not something that most of Australia society can afford now. 413 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 4: And and so that combined with a much lower birth 414 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 4: rate at all. And just to put that in perfect, 415 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 4: put some numbers on that birth rate just after the 416 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 4: Second World War, the so called baby boom three and 417 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 4: a half children per mother. Now we're down under replacement 418 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 4: at around one I think is one point one one 419 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 4: point two. So there are a lot less babies being born, 420 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 4: and of those babies, a lot less of them are 421 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 4: having access to significant periods of breastfeeding. 422 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, like I know, there are a lot 423 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 2: of different variables and it's not one thing. You know, 424 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 2: the four HNA is like a big factor of course, 425 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 2: and what you shared about the seed oils, but just 426 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: as a standalone thing, so it appears that breastfeeding is 427 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 2: probably definitely better for the kid and better for the mum. 428 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 2: But you can't really what do you do with that 429 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 2: information though, I mean, you can't really try to compel 430 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 2: people to breastfeed. That seems inappropriate. 431 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 4: What you wouldn do is be tough about stopping people 432 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 4: convincing mothers not to breastfeed, right, which is what the 433 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 4: legislation that requires formula manufacturers to say that sort of 434 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 4: thing is about but we're kind of easy oasy about 435 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 4: it in that we let them get away with marketing 436 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 4: that is quite frankly deceptive about it, and so we 437 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 4: could be tougher around that. But you can't force women 438 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 4: to breastfeed other than doing what we're doing right now, Craig, 439 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 4: which is explain why it matters, and it's not just 440 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 4: this the act of breastfeeding. There's a whole section of 441 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 4: one of my books I kin't of remember which one, 442 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 4: where I went into this in some detail, looking at 443 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 4: the immune system effects of breastfeeding, which is part of 444 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 4: the reason of breastfeeding is very effective from an immune perspective, 445 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 4: is that effectively the mother is transferring her exposure to 446 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 4: everything she's ever encountered her in her entire life to 447 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 4: her child, so that the child comes with a pre 448 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 4: set set of Hey, you've already seen all these diseases 449 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 4: even though you haven't, because your mum has, and her 450 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 4: mum has and her mom has. 451 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 2: So the more like a natural vaccination. Yeah, it's like 452 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 2: the world's best, most natural vaccination from mum to kid. 453 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,239 Speaker 4: And there's a reason it works that way, which is 454 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 4: there's a way to transmit this information. It's very effective, 455 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,239 Speaker 4: and it's through breast milk, and you know, explaining that 456 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 4: to people, helping them understand why it matters can help. 457 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 4: It doesn't change if they can't do it at all, 458 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 4: which some women can't, or if their circumstances don't permit 459 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 4: them to do it. But if you know it, then 460 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 4: it's something you can you can aim for even one hundred. 461 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 2: So I was just going to say, what do we 462 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: ask the one who asked, I'm thinking that there's only 463 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: one woman on the panel there? 464 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: Do you no, you're you're a rock solid seventy percent female. 465 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: You know that you've done that's the alleged percentage. What 466 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: do you say about it? 467 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 3: What do you percent that's remotely maternal? Is the thirty 468 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 3: percent I don't have? 469 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 4: Right? 470 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: Right? What do you think about all this? 471 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 3: That makes my brain hurt? It really does. Sometimes David 472 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 3: does make my brain hurt on here. Sometimes I wish 473 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,479 Speaker 3: I didn't understand some of the things he brings to us. 474 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: To understand. What have you got more? Have you got 475 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: more or less anxiety? 476 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 2: Now than you more? 477 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 4: Now? Oh, that's not the aim. I don't I don't 478 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 4: want women to come away from listening to this and 479 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 4: think and be in any way guilty about not breastfeeding, 480 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 4: or in any way fearful of about the fact they 481 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 4: have it. And that's why I said at the start, 482 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 4: this does not say that if you don't breastfeed you 483 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 4: will have breast cancer. That is not what it says. 484 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 4: It just says there is a risk factor that they 485 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 4: have clearly identified. But you've got to take that about 486 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 4: the against the background of the things that are inducing 487 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 4: more cancer. 488 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 3: To begin with, that idea of the concept of being 489 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 3: like a natural vaccination, like that baby grew inside the 490 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 3: biology of the mother, So everything that she has ever experienced, 491 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 3: had or been has come from herself. So wouldn't she 492 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 3: already be passing on the vast majority of. 493 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 4: That seems not it. I mean that that may well 494 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 4: have a role to play in it. But the research 495 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 4: that I read through for that book, I can't remember 496 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 4: which of my books where I talk about this, it 497 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 4: really clearly identified the act of breastfeeding as if not 498 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 4: the full transference, at least the important end bit to it. 499 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 2: Mm hm wow, Well, T if I think you better 500 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 2: start thinking about procreating, I. 501 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 4: Was just going to have a word to me. 502 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 3: Capt and dog and seated. 503 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 4: Or just oils that you just don't oils. 504 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so get rid of the margarine and the mayo. 505 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 2: And did someone tell me that margarine is gray before 506 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 2: they color it? 507 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 4: Yeah? It is, yeah, before they color it. Yeah, it's great. 508 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: Imagine a big slab of gray shit. 509 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 4: They know they use to make them. They used to 510 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 4: make them color a pink so that you could tell 511 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 4: that it was fake. So only butter was allowed to 512 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 4: be yellow. So in the United States when they first 513 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 4: released it, they had to call it imitation butter and 514 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 4: it had to be pink so you could tell on site. Ah, yeah, no, 515 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 4: that's the fake stuff. 516 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 3: Where did those rules go? They're great rules. 517 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 2: Well, imagine if that ship got Imagine if the rule 518 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: was you can't color it's got it? 519 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: That would be the end of margarine. And it's great. 520 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 2: And where can people access that that article data? 521 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 4: All right, Okay, so I've changed the name because Raisin 522 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 4: Hell was so terrible and unmemorable. This may not be 523 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 4: any better, but you can you can just you can 524 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 4: just go to David David Gillespie dot org and you'll 525 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 4: see the article there. 526 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: Well, that's that's better. I think that's better. Did you 527 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: have a whole teamwork on that phone? 528 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 4: I did, my entire marketing team. We're up for minutes 529 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 4: doing that. 530 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 3: There's even a photo of him, is even a photo 531 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 3: of him on that website? 532 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 4: There you go. Now I know what he looks like. 533 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: He told me he was six or five with blonde 534 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: hair and looks like a surfer. Is that true? 535 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah I was sitting down. 536 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 537 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll say goodbye fair but thank you David, thank you, TIV, 538 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 2: thanks 539 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 4: Everyone, all right, see you later.