Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you can sit in front of
Speaker 2: these kids sometimes and not of a tear in your eye.
Speaker 2: I've been called too emotional, but if that's what it is,
Speaker 2: I don't care. It's humanizing our kids and I think
Speaker 2: that's part of what I want to do in this commission.
Speaker 3: So Wen hundred has had a long career which started
Speaker 3: as a social worker and reached the heights as a
Speaker 3: commissioner for Victoria's Truth Telling Commission y Rook. Now she's
Speaker 3: been appointed as Australia's first National Commissioner for Aboriginal Entirestrade
Speaker 3: Islander Children and young people. And the way of the
Speaker 3: responsibility is very real.
Speaker 2: It's been called for for a long time. And in
Speaker 2: saying that, can I just start by recognizing those people
Speaker 2: that have come before us, our ancestors, our elders, but
Speaker 2: particularly those that are fought for our children, those from
Speaker 2: stolen generation, those who turned home, those that didn't.
Speaker 3: Her apportment comes at a time when aberig and on
Speaker 3: Tirestrude Island are adults are being imprisoned at one of
Speaker 3: the highest rates in the world, incarceration rates arising instead
Speaker 3: of falling. Indigenous people make up nearly a third of
Speaker 3: all deaths and custody and most closing the gap. Targets
Speaker 3: for children are not on track, with some going backwards.
Speaker 3: So the task to break the cycle that leads to
Speaker 3: these appalling stats is a huge one.
Speaker 2: So when I walked in, it's huge, right. My first
Speaker 2: job is to get set the foundation. It's a solid foundation,
Speaker 2: so that this commission worked for later down, you know,
Speaker 2: years down the track.
Speaker 3: I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM today,
Speaker 3: National Commissioner for Aboriginal and Torrest Dratiland, their Children and
Speaker 3: Young People, sue An Hunter on the task ahead and
Speaker 3: giving voice to children who have too often been spoken
Speaker 3: about but rarely listened to. It's Friday, February twenty In
Speaker 3: terms of the issues that are confronting appalstra on the children.
Speaker 3: What's the priority there for you in terms of now
Speaker 3: that you're established, what do you want to tackle first?
Speaker 2: One of the things we sort of have underway is
Speaker 2: we are commissioning a piece of work at this point
Speaker 2: around all the big commissions inquiries that have already been done,
Speaker 2: you know, and I know there's one hundred recommendations, there's
Speaker 2: hundreds of recommendations seeing the shelf.
Speaker 4: The Human Rights Commission has now published its report.
Speaker 5: It's called Bringing Them Home.
Speaker 6: It's a profoundly moving, deeply disturbing document.
Speaker 2: It is most of the recommendations put forward by the
Speaker 2: Bringing Home Report AH have either never been or inadequately implemented.
Speaker 4: With the report of the Royal Commission to Aboriginal Destin's Custody,
Speaker 4: which showed we're devastating clarity that the past lives on
Speaker 4: in inequality, racism and injustice.
Speaker 6: Twenty years ago, the Royal Commission into Original Deaths in
Speaker 6: Custody delivered its final report. Two decades on, Indigenous incarceration
Speaker 6: rates remain high and Indigenous deaths in custody is still happening.
Speaker 2: And I think we'll start with the Bringing Them Home
Speaker 2: Report in our home care move forward from there. We'll
Speaker 2: also look at death in custody, how does that affect children?
Speaker 2: All those reports that will set a blueprint. I don't
Speaker 2: want to come out all guns are blazing doing another
Speaker 2: report that nobody's going to look at. The Other thing
Speaker 2: that we've started putting our.
Speaker 1: Minds to is data.
Speaker 2: Data is collected differently in states, territories, and jurisdictions. Around
Speaker 2: the place, particularly on our kids, and it's done differently
Speaker 2: because there's different laws in every state. So collecting the
Speaker 2: data nationally to get a really good solid understanding of
Speaker 2: where our kids are at in our home care, with justice,
Speaker 2: in health, in education data tells a story.
Speaker 1: We really need that.
Speaker 2: But also setting up a frame work of youth, of
Speaker 2: going out and consulting and I hate the word consulting
Speaker 2: that you know, yarning with youth about their views and
Speaker 2: what they want to see in and getting their views
Speaker 2: even into a lot of how we're setting this up.
Speaker 2: That's not really tackling the big issues to start with,
Speaker 2: but it's setting a really big foundation, a solid foundation
Speaker 2: that this commission can be built off.
Speaker 3: This role has been written into law. What powers have
Speaker 3: you been given and how are they different from what
Speaker 3: existed before, if there was anything before.
Speaker 2: This is the first time our kids are in there
Speaker 2: in a Commonwealth law. So we sit under like a
Speaker 2: Public Service Act at the moment. That will then give
Speaker 2: us the independence that we need so we're free of
Speaker 2: political interference, actually anybody's interference. It's big, like it's a
Speaker 2: big responsibility. That means we can motion our own inquiries.
Speaker 2: That means we can compel documents. That means we can
Speaker 2: ask people to come b for us and give us
Speaker 2: answer our questions. It also means that we can speak
Speaker 2: directly to governments about what's working and what's not working. Now,
Speaker 2: we all know recommendations and you know reports don't always.
Speaker 1: Get picked up. I get that.
Speaker 2: I've just been on the Yarrouk Justice Commission and if
Speaker 2: you look at once, we get this commissioned piece of
Speaker 2: work and we'll see how many taken up.
Speaker 1: But it also gives me an in to.
Speaker 2: Understand the issues of why and really work about getting them.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be persistent and continuous and I'm going
Speaker 2: to be really selective in recommendations.
Speaker 1: But I'll also run that.
Speaker 2: Past the kids, because it's them. This is for them,
Speaker 2: this is what they want to see. I think one
Speaker 2: of the things I've always thought about, Daniel is the
Speaker 2: gap between policy and on the ground delivery.
Speaker 1: This is big gap.
Speaker 2: I want to get into the policy level, and I've
Speaker 2: been talking to people already, you know, people in Parliament
Speaker 2: across the board, saying, if you have something you want
Speaker 2: to get through and it includes our children, let us
Speaker 2: know early. Don't just spin that on We will break
Speaker 2: that down and take it out to our kids and say, hey,
Speaker 2: this is what they're looking at.
Speaker 1: What does that mean for you? What does that look like?
Speaker 2: And then be able to give them some advice about
Speaker 2: what that looks like on the ground. What the kids
Speaker 2: are saying. You don't get better outcomes for our kids
Speaker 2: through their voices.
Speaker 3: What powers haven't you been given that you would have
Speaker 3: liked to have had.
Speaker 2: We've had a big jibaji about quite a few, but
Speaker 2: I will say I come in a bit cynical.
Speaker 1: I didn't think we'd get much.
Speaker 2: We have more than I actually thought we'd get, so
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful for that. The rights to entry, we
Speaker 2: don't have don Dale or Banksy Hill, you know those places.
Speaker 5: Image you've just seen isn't from Guantanamo Bay or Abbergrabe,
Speaker 5: but Australia in twenty fifteen, a boy hooded, shackled, struck
Speaker 5: to a chair and left alone. It is Bob Barrick.
Speaker 5: This is juvenile justice in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2: What we need to remember is in most jurisdictions there's
Speaker 2: a Commissioner for children, or there's there's also maybe not everywhere,
Speaker 2: but there's commissioner original hundred children as well. They know
Speaker 2: their own backyard, they know what's going on in their
Speaker 2: own state, and I will be guided by them. Whether
Speaker 2: I'm the backup dancer in something is fine or whether
Speaker 2: they want me to be the you know, the front
Speaker 2: person in that will work that out as we go along.
Speaker 3: As you've alluded to you throughout our conversation so far,
Speaker 3: so am many of the biggest leavers sit with states
Speaker 3: and territories. So what can a National commissioner realistically shift?
Speaker 2: I think I'm just going to be like a little
Speaker 2: terrier and I'm constantly going to be at their door,
Speaker 2: you know, knock and knock and knocking, and have those
Speaker 2: in and make those relationships. There's power in numbers. We
Speaker 2: need to remember that. But I think if we can't
Speaker 2: with the voices and stories, you can't dismiss the voices
Speaker 2: and stories of our youth. I don't know about you, Daniel,
Speaker 2: but when you sit with our young ones and you
Speaker 2: listen the adversity they've been through to where they are now,
Speaker 2: you can't deny that. Can I just tell you I've
Speaker 2: already got all these inboxes from kids because I've invited
Speaker 2: them contact us. Let us know, tell us your story,
Speaker 2: because the kids that are doing well and have gone
Speaker 2: through the adversity have these amazing stories, So why don't
Speaker 2: want to highlight the good stuff. I met a young
Speaker 2: girl and she was homeless, no job, and she was
Speaker 2: actually meeting with Minister Purbasic and then I saw her
Speaker 2: after the bill had been read. She's like Arnie Arnie
Speaker 2: and chased me down the hall and she's just got
Speaker 2: to big his hug and she was kind and said,
Speaker 2: thought make commercial.
Speaker 1: I haven't. This is amazing for our people.
Speaker 2: And I said you need to just we're going to
Speaker 2: catch up and she said, I said, I need your
Speaker 2: story out there, and she said, I've come from nothing,
Speaker 2: And she's not even a I've come from nothing. They're
Speaker 2: the stories that need to be in front the humanize
Speaker 2: our kids, because they're dehumanized all the time.
Speaker 3: Coming up, what's most broken about the system? Let's talk
Speaker 3: a bit about you, Sue, and what made you want
Speaker 3: to take up this position as a National Commissioner for
Speaker 3: Average Ultage rat On to Children.
Speaker 2: In the first instance, I think the work I've done
Speaker 2: is a social worker on the ground with our kids,
Speaker 2: and I carry look, I carry hundreds of stories I've
Speaker 2: sat with our kids in hospitals, and I've sat with
Speaker 2: them in atension, sat with them in classrooms and homes
Speaker 2: and you know, little did I know then as a
Speaker 2: little social worker where I'd end up.
Speaker 1: But those I learned.
Speaker 2: More of those kids than I have ever in a
Speaker 2: classroom doing my social work degree. I do for them,
Speaker 2: That's why, and it really drives me. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: an aunty and a mum as well. Our kids deserve better,
Speaker 2: they just do. It's all been with and for our
Speaker 2: next generation. It's just such an honor. But it's huge,
Speaker 2: Like the enormity of it. I have to chunk it
Speaker 2: down and break it down, otherwise it would just be
Speaker 2: too overwhelming.
Speaker 1: But the.
Speaker 2: Everyone's willing to help. Everyone wants to chip in.
Speaker 3: And I love that You've worked with Aboriginal children for
Speaker 3: a long time now in all sorts of different levels
Speaker 3: over the years. What have you seen what's most broken
Speaker 3: about the way we deal with Aboriginal entirestrana and the
Speaker 3: kids in a systemic sense and in a societal sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day. We
Speaker 2: were talking about different things in sort of our home
Speaker 2: care and stuff. Kids always go home right and whether
Speaker 2: they run from our home care or what, haven't you
Speaker 2: they always go home. We need to support the family
Speaker 2: as a whole. Sometimes kids need to be removed. Let's
Speaker 2: be really clear. It's about the safety and the rights
Speaker 2: of the child, and the rights of the child with
Speaker 2: the forefront for me and the safety and well being.
Speaker 2: Sometimes kids have to be removed and then they always want.
Speaker 1: To go home.
Speaker 2: Why don't we working with families. It's a whole, it's
Speaker 2: a whole family. We strengthen the family as well as
Speaker 2: the child, and then in doing that we're also strengthening
Speaker 2: the community. It costs more to lock a child out
Speaker 2: than it would be to put that into a family,
Speaker 2: a whole family and a child. There's more focus on policy.
Speaker 2: We lose that this is human beings. They're not statistics,
Speaker 2: their children, they're families.
Speaker 3: You've seen firsthand that education has a big role to
Speaker 3: play in helping address the problems facing First Nations children
Speaker 3: and young people. So what do you want all Australians
Speaker 3: to know that they perhaps don't know right now?
Speaker 2: I want people to understand that our children are strong,
Speaker 2: they're smart, they need opportunities and we can grow that
Speaker 2: by not doing the public narrative of their all criminals
Speaker 2: and they're not demonized. And we have this horrific public
Speaker 2: narrative about Aboriginal youth at this point. And so I
Speaker 2: want them to know that our kids smart and strong,
Speaker 2: they come from the oldest living culture in this world,
Speaker 2: that they carry in them, that they need opportunities, that
Speaker 2: we need to support them, that we need to build
Speaker 2: them up as a society because we've teared them down.
Speaker 1: For too long. That's what I want Australia to know.
Speaker 3: Finally, Sueanne, recently the Government handed down it's latest Closing
Speaker 3: the Gap report and most targets aren't on track and
Speaker 3: several are even going backwards.
Speaker 7: Mister speaker, where are now five years away from most
Speaker 7: of the target deadlines? We're clear about where there is
Speaker 7: more want to do. We must also guard against talk
Speaker 7: of failure, because talk of failure dismisses the aspirations and
Speaker 7: achievements of Indigenous Australians.
Speaker 3: It ignores Why is that in your view? And can
Speaker 3: we ever turn that around?
Speaker 2: I think we can turn it around, I really do.
Speaker 2: So what Closing the Gap does is give us the
Speaker 2: data yeah and tells us this isn't working. What I
Speaker 2: can do in this role. Let's look at the accountability.
Speaker 2: Why isn't it working, where is government investing, where are
Speaker 2: they missing out? Who's not doing what? And hold them
Speaker 2: have the accountability. I can call that out. I can
Speaker 2: call out those pieces. I can ask for those documents.
Speaker 2: I can have a look at what where the gaps
Speaker 2: are and call that out. Like you can't say it's great,
Speaker 2: because it's not, particularly for our kids, particularly for our future.
Speaker 2: And I'm looking forward to that part of it. I
Speaker 2: think the accountability part is what I'm really looking forward to.
Speaker 2: And we need to call people out. And I will
Speaker 2: say whether that's us. Everybody's held accountable, right and I
Speaker 2: need to be held accountable. And that's why I'll be
Speaker 2: centered estimates all the time and then the community will
Speaker 2: call me out. But I have an accountability mechanism and
Speaker 2: so does everybody else.
Speaker 1: It deals with our kids, and so.
Speaker 2: We all are accountable. We all can shape the future
Speaker 2: of our kids. But we all need to work together
Speaker 2: on getting this done.
Speaker 3: Commissioner I Hatta, thank you so much for your time,
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. Also in the news, a new
Speaker 3: reporters found that in twenty twenty eight, federal state and
Speaker 3: territory government gross debt as a share of the economy
Speaker 3: will exceed levels not seen since World War Two. Announce
Speaker 3: us by the E sixty one Institute says Australia will
Speaker 3: cease to be a load debt country and be more
Speaker 3: vulnerable than a future christ without a combination of spending
Speaker 3: cuts and tax reform. Government spending has been in the
Speaker 3: spotlight since the Reserve Bank's recent interest rate hike, and
Speaker 3: one adult among the group of thirty four Australian women
Speaker 3: and children in a Syrian detention camp has been issued
Speaker 3: with a temporary exclusion order banning them from coming to
Speaker 3: Australia for up to two years. It follows attempts from
Speaker 3: the group to flee the camp to Australia before being
Speaker 3: turned back by Syrian authorities. The rest of the group
Speaker 3: has not been assessed by intelligence agencies as meaning the
Speaker 3: threshold to be banned from Australia, but the Alberanesi government
Speaker 3: maintains will not assist in repatriating them. I'm Daniel James.
Speaker 3: You've been listening to seven AM. We'll be back tomorrow.