1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: From the newsroom and News still come today. Good day there. 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Bucklow, and I tell you what. There's a 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: fair bit going on at the moment, isn't there. If 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: you're head to news dot com dot au right now, 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: you can get the latest on the fighting between Israel 6 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: and Iran. We've also got some great exclusives from the 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: g seventh summit in Canada thanks to our reporter Benedict 8 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: Brook who's over there. Our sports boys have got a 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: preview of tonight's Game two of State of Origin. After 10 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: that pretty one sided affair from a couple of weeks 11 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: ago here South Wales. 12 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: Mill over Queensland. 13 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 3: They've won back to back games at sun Court for 14 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 3: the first time since ninety seven ninety eight. 15 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: Planch He's Blues are thrilled and the score is eighteen six. 16 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: And we've also got a pretty wacky story online for 17 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: you today which has really grabbed my attention. It's about 18 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: the Pyramids. So a bunch of researchers think a huge 19 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: underground city exists beneath the Pyramids of Giza, and they 20 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: reckon they can prove it. We are going to investigate 21 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: their claims in this episode and find out just how 22 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: much is backed and just how much is fiction. The 23 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: Pyramids of Gezer, located just west of Cairo in Egypt, 24 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: are the last surviving wonders of the ancient world. They 25 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: consist of three major pyramids, which were built as royal 26 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: tombs for different pharrohs about four thousand, five hundred years ago. Now, 27 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: for a long, long time, debate has raged about how 28 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: the pyramids were built. They keep coming up with multiple 29 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: theories about how the Great Pyramid was built, and none 30 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: of them make any sense to me. 31 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 3: We know that the technology to build the monuments in 32 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 3: Egypt was far in advance of anything that the Egyptian 33 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 3: government or the Antiquities Bureau will admit to. 34 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: This thing is just a gigantic mystery. Recently, a team 35 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: of researchers from Italy made headlines around the world after 36 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: claiming they'd uncovered evidence of huge structures beneath the pyramids. 37 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: This new pyramid ship that's just come out. 38 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 4: Oh this is insane. 39 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 3: I am struggling to express in words just how significant 40 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 3: of a discovery this is. 41 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: Here to tell us Morris, journalist and news dot Com Today, 42 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: you contributed Jamie Seedel, who's written an article about this 43 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,559 Speaker 1: Jamie walk us through this so called discovery. 44 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: Okay, so. 45 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 3: The mythology of the pyramids has been evolving for hundreds 46 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: of years. They're absolutely fascinating and among the many, many 47 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 3: ideas is that they are markers or guardians of great 48 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 3: halls of buried lost knowledge, the spiritual wisdom of the ancients, 49 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 3: the technological marvels of civilizations that have gone before. And 50 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 3: these Italian scientists, one of whom works for the Scottish University, 51 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: have come up with a rather interesting, it's true idea 52 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 3: that radar scams from aircraft and satellites can somehow penetrate 53 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 3: two kilometers deep under the earth. Most archaeologists and geologists 54 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: the radar is only able to penetrate about a meter, 55 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 3: possibly two meters into the earth. 56 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: So that claim is big if true. 57 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 3: I mean, can you imagine it if you could see 58 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: what was two kilometers under the earth, every mining company 59 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: on the planet would be crawling all over these guys, 60 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 3: not to mention Israel and Washington trying to find out 61 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 3: the extent and location of Iran's underground nuclear weapons facilities. 62 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: But of course that's not actually happening, So that itself 63 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: might tell you something anyway, they say that their radar 64 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 3: scans have shown them that directly underneath the pyramids are 65 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 3: massive spiral staircases going through a lake below the lake 66 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: and emerging into two very large cubes, which they think 67 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: may well be the halls of the ancients. 68 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: If you've never heard of the Halls of Ancients, it's 69 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: a mythical chamber or temple that some believer is hidden 70 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: beneath the Great Pyramid in Geezer. 71 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 4: Proponents of this theory speculate that the newly detected chambers 72 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 4: could be this fabled repository, potentially offering insights into lost 73 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 4: civilizations or advanced ancient wisdom. 74 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 1: Now, Jamie, I'm a tad confused here, I'll be honest. 75 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,239 Speaker 1: So these researchers think they've uncovered staircases and structures below 76 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: the pyramids. Okay, sure, fair enough, But how on earth 77 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: can they claim to know what's actually inside them? 78 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 3: Well, so, yeah, that's one of the red flags immediately 79 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 3: pops up. A true archaeologist does not leap from an 80 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 3: unproven idea to a specific conclusion. So it's obviously these 81 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 3: guys have got a history. They're not archaeologists. One of 82 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 3: them is a radar specialist, submittedly, but he's not an archaeologist. 83 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: And the other guy is a chemist, the professor who's 84 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 3: leading the whole project as chemist who got out of 85 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 3: chemistry and into hypnotherapy, and his big thing is digging 86 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 3: up forgotten memories of alien abductions and has sold a 87 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 3: lot of books about these alien abductions. And he's somehow 88 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 3: managed to link his particular group of aliens to the Pyramids. 89 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: It's starting to sound like a load of hogwash. I'll 90 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: be honest, Jamiees. So these people say that they've got 91 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: radar technology that no one else in the world seems 92 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: to have, that they've discovered these tunnels and these structures 93 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: under the pyramids, and that they contain secret knowledge from 94 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: ancient Egyptian history. I don't know if I'm buying it. 95 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: No, and nor should you. So look again, these guys 96 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: have put forward a what is on the surface, a 97 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: very convincing argument. They've even published a scientific paper, or 98 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 3: it looks like a scientific paper. You've got these very 99 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 3: pretty red, orange, yellow, blue, purple pictures supposedly showing radar scans, 100 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 3: but they don't even come with a key. You don't 101 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 3: know what the red means. You don't know what the 102 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 3: yellow means. You don't know what the blue means. Does 103 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 3: the blue mean that it's moist and the red mean 104 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 3: that it's dry. Does the red mean that there might 105 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: be a cavity there? Does the blue mean it might 106 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 3: be dense? And that's exactly the kind of thing that 107 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: scientists want to know. They want to be able to 108 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: replicate and understand research so that it can be validated, 109 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 3: so they don't get sucked into the stories of a 110 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 3: snake oil salesman. So that's not in this scientific study. 111 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 3: It looks like a scientific study, but the key section 112 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 3: of a scientific study is called a methodology, and that's 113 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 3: where you detail, step by step, not by bolt, mathematical equation, 114 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 3: by chemical equation, how you reach your result. Now that's 115 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: completely missing from their study. And as I said, they 116 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 3: are using commercially available material, these radar scans, but their 117 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 3: secret source is a piece of software that they wrote themselves. 118 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: Mind you that these are One of them is a 119 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 3: hypnotherapist and the other ones are a radar technical specialist 120 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 3: that can somehow produce results two thousand times more powerful 121 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 3: than what anybody else can. 122 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: And somehow or another that radar scan tells. 123 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: Us that there are thirty eight thousand year old halls 124 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 3: buried beneath the pyramids. Now somewhere between go and woe, 125 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 3: there are a few holes there. 126 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: After the researchers claims about the structures beneath the pyramids 127 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: went viral, a number of experts spoke out and they 128 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: did not hold back. Those story gets the nine out 129 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: of ten on my bullshit meter. Zahi Hawas, an archaeologist 130 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: and former Egyptian Minister of Antiquities, agreed, saying there's no 131 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: scientific evidence to support these assertions. He added the rumor 132 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,119 Speaker 1: suggesting the presence of columns beneath the pyramids are nothing 133 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: but fabrications propagated by individuals with no expertise in ancient 134 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: Egyptian civilization or the history of the Pyramids, and a 135 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: radar expert from the University of Denver was also pretty scathing, 136 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: calling the researchers claims a huge exaggeration. Now, over the years, 137 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: there have been some pretty wild claims about the Pyramids, 138 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: and in just a moment, Jamie's going to run us 139 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: through some of the craziest ones that he's had. Welcome back, 140 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: I'm chatting to journalists Jamie Seedal. Now, Jamie, there are 141 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: so many myths about the pyramids, including that aliens helped 142 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: build them. What are some of your favorite myths? 143 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: Look, there's so many of them, but even worse, there's 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: so many variations of each one. 145 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 3: Right, I guess you know the ancient alien one is 146 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 3: that you know, these big blocks of stone were way 147 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 3: too big for mere human beings to stack on top 148 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 3: of each other themselves, that these pyramids, when built, required, 149 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 3: you know, something other than hard made your labor. Therefore aliens. Well, 150 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 3: let's put it this way. If you've ever seen a 151 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 3: toddler playing with blocks, you'll see them stack them on 152 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 3: top of each other and the blocks will fall over. 153 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: Right. 154 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 3: But by the time that preschoolers, they figured out the 155 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 3: best way to stack those blocks is slightly in board 156 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 3: of each other to build, you guessed, a pyramid, And 157 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 3: that's because the blocks focus their weight on the center 158 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: of the structure. It's the most basic architectural form there 159 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 3: is in the known universe, and it's probably how you 160 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 3: stack your firewood out the back, or your cartons of 161 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 3: whatever in your shed. 162 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: It's very very simple. 163 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: What's hard, of course, is the scale and the ancient 164 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: Egyptians even tell us how they did it. We found 165 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: scrolls detailing work rosters of how they organize people to 166 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 3: move these rocks around and stack them together. But that's 167 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 3: not good enough, so Aliens. The alternative to that one 168 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 3: is that now it wasn't Aliens, it was an ancient 169 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 3: super race of humans that existed before the last Ice Age. 170 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: This ancient super race of humans has left behind no 171 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 3: evidence that we've managed to find except the Pyramids, except 172 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 3: perhaps the Sphinx, and now apparently these. 173 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: Buried halls of knowledge. 174 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 3: But then on top of that, you've got all these 175 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 3: other religious theories that center around another Victorian era piece 176 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 3: of mythology, sacred geometry, and that is the sort of 177 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 3: mystical cultish alignment of all the world's monuments are supposed 178 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 3: to contain a story. And just earlier this year, another academic, 179 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 3: not an archaeologist, has come up with an idea that 180 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 3: will actually if you read all these alignments and decode 181 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 3: different texts and Bibles, you will find that it points 182 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 3: to the Great Pyramids as being built as the burial 183 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: chamber for Jesus Christ, and right alongside of him is 184 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 3: the long lost ark of the Covenant, the magical box 185 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 3: that was part of the exodus out of Egypt in 186 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:16,719 Speaker 3: the Old Testament. So look, they all sound wonderful, they 187 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 3: all sound inspiring. But as soon as you actually say, well, okay, 188 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: that's a great claim, where's the great evidence is supported, 189 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 3: that's when people usually start shouting. As Joe Rogan found 190 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 3: out when he tried to get Egypt's highest profile archaeologist, 191 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 3: A Zahi Hawas to talk about these supposed tunnels under 192 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: the Great Pyramids. Hawas is so sick of the ideas. 193 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 3: His simple reply was bullshit. 194 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: I think he's got a fair point because every time 195 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: that these people come up with myths and theories about 196 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: how the pyramids were built or what's really beneath them, 197 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: it does kind of detract from the achievement of the 198 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: ancient Egyptians, doesn't it. 199 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 2: And I guess that's a point. 200 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people, particularly the Egyptians, feel 201 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 3: that it's a bit of a racist slur. Why can't 202 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 3: we have done this? Why can't you accept that we 203 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 3: have done this when we have a very good idea 204 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 3: as how they did it. 205 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: We don't know all the minute details, and let's face 206 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 2: are archaeologists as sticklers. 207 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 3: They don't like to say something is certain when there's 208 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 3: a possibility that there might be a minor variation. But 209 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 3: you know, it's a bit of a slap in the 210 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 3: face to say your people can't. It must therefore be aliens, 211 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 3: or it must therefore be an ancient super race, which 212 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: you know, just by a chance, happens to be the 213 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 3: Aryan white supreme race of the Nazis. So it Yeah, 214 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,359 Speaker 3: there's all sorts of shades, there's all sorts of innuendo, 215 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: there's all sorts of dark sides of human nature just 216 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 3: bubbling beneath the surface of a lot of these stories. 217 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: Well, it's a fascinating topic. Anyone who wants to read 218 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: more should go to news dot com, dot you and 219 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: check out your latest article. It's up right now. Jamie Siedl, 220 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: thank you so much for chatting on the podcast. 221 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 222 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: I love a history mystery and that is one of 223 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: the most interesting ones. A big thank you for listening 224 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: to today's episode, and I will chat to you again tomorrow. 225 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 3: Follow us, subscribe to from the newsroom wherever you get 226 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 3: your podcasts.