1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,980 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. My 2 00:00:07,980 --> 00:00:12,809 Sean Aylmer: guest today is one of Australia's greatest Olympians. Since retiring 3 00:00:12,809 --> 00:00:15,750 Sean Aylmer: from swimming, Grant Hackett has built an impressive career in 4 00:00:15,750 --> 00:00:19,560 Sean Aylmer: business and finance, including at Westpac and BT Financial Group. 5 00:00:19,590 --> 00:00:23,430 Sean Aylmer: He's now the CEO of Generation Life, a business focusing 6 00:00:23,430 --> 00:00:26,759 Sean Aylmer: on investment bonds. I want to talk to him today about investment 7 00:00:26,759 --> 00:00:30,509 Sean Aylmer: bonds, about the superannuation sector, about the changes needed so 8 00:00:30,509 --> 00:00:33,659 Sean Aylmer: that the industry remains fit for purpose, and how his 9 00:00:33,659 --> 00:00:37,200 Sean Aylmer: success at the highest level of competitive sport prepared him 10 00:00:37,260 --> 00:00:40,409 Sean Aylmer: for the business world. Plenty to cover there. Remember this 11 00:00:40,409 --> 00:00:43,560 Sean Aylmer: discussion is general in nature. Any discussion of investment products 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,918 Sean Aylmer: is for educational purpose only and doesn't take into account 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,339 Sean Aylmer: your personal circumstances. You should always seek professional advice before 14 00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:54,240 Sean Aylmer: making investment decisions. Grant Hackett, OAM. Welcome to Fear and Greed. 15 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,280 Grant Hackett: Thanks very much for letting me on Sean. 16 00:00:56,700 --> 00:00:59,250 Sean Aylmer: So you've held world records you've won Olympic gold, captain 17 00:00:59,250 --> 00:01:03,330 Sean Aylmer: of the Australian swimming team. Why'd you go from that 18 00:01:03,420 --> 00:01:06,539 Sean Aylmer: to business? Because there's not actually a lot of sports 19 00:01:06,780 --> 00:01:09,870 Sean Aylmer: stars that end up successful in business. 20 00:01:10,410 --> 00:01:13,169 Grant Hackett: It's really interesting. It's actually something that I think I've 21 00:01:13,170 --> 00:01:15,600 Grant Hackett: been interested in just as long as swimming. So I 22 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,020 Grant Hackett: always love trading shares. I was always interested in markets, 23 00:01:19,020 --> 00:01:22,500 Grant Hackett: anything commerce related. Even when I was swimming, I was 24 00:01:22,530 --> 00:01:25,440 Grant Hackett: heavily involved in several different investments along the way. So 25 00:01:25,830 --> 00:01:28,949 Grant Hackett: for me, the transition into finance felt very, very natural. 26 00:01:28,949 --> 00:01:31,620 Grant Hackett: In fact, many, many years before my career ended, I 27 00:01:31,620 --> 00:01:34,200 Grant Hackett: actually sat down with Rob Coombe, who's now the chairman 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,928 Grant Hackett: of our group here, I listed into generation development group, 29 00:01:36,930 --> 00:01:40,559 Grant Hackett: and also spoke to a couple of other senior leaders 30 00:01:40,559 --> 00:01:42,959 Grant Hackett: within finance about, " Well, what should I be studying? What 31 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,690 Grant Hackett: should I be doing now, preparing myself after sport to 32 00:01:45,690 --> 00:01:47,580 Grant Hackett: make sure I can make that transition as smooth as 33 00:01:47,580 --> 00:01:50,970 Grant Hackett: possible." So yeah, just always a field that I loved 34 00:01:50,970 --> 00:01:53,670 Grant Hackett: I was very interested in, and sitting in a position 35 00:01:53,730 --> 00:01:56,309 Grant Hackett: today that I absolutely love and what we're doing for 36 00:01:56,309 --> 00:01:59,429 Grant Hackett: all of our customers and our investors is terrific. So 37 00:01:59,429 --> 00:02:01,230 Grant Hackett: yeah, sort of getting a similar buzz as I was 38 00:02:01,230 --> 00:02:03,569 Grant Hackett: in swimming. But yeah, very, very different environments. 39 00:02:03,569 --> 00:02:06,420 Sean Aylmer: Well, firstly, I mean, well done jumping onto Rob Coombe's 40 00:02:06,420 --> 00:02:10,440 Sean Aylmer: shirttail because he's been very successful in finance and very 41 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,919 Sean Aylmer: giving also to many other people in the industry. How 42 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,440 Sean Aylmer: hard was it to transition? And of course, you went 43 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,219 Sean Aylmer: from very high- profile job to, I think I'm going 44 00:02:20,219 --> 00:02:21,839 Sean Aylmer: to get this wrong probably, but was it Westpac was 45 00:02:21,839 --> 00:02:23,459 Sean Aylmer: your first high profile business job? 46 00:02:23,579 --> 00:02:24,359 Grant Hackett: Yeah, that's right. 47 00:02:24,990 --> 00:02:27,330 Sean Aylmer: And everything that goes with it, because obviously, well, not 48 00:02:27,330 --> 00:02:29,669 Sean Aylmer: obviously you had personal challenges as we all do, but 49 00:02:29,669 --> 00:02:33,780 Sean Aylmer: yours were played out in the public spotlight. How hard 50 00:02:33,780 --> 00:02:35,610 Sean Aylmer: was that to go from one career to the other 51 00:02:35,669 --> 00:02:36,929 Sean Aylmer: when everyone was watching? 52 00:02:37,830 --> 00:02:39,780 Grant Hackett: Oh, it's very difficult in the sense that you have 53 00:02:39,780 --> 00:02:42,239 Grant Hackett: this massive loss of identity. You go from being this 54 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,700 Grant Hackett: sports person and almost the global CEO at what you 55 00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:47,940 Grant Hackett: do to going to Westpac on a Monday morning and not 56 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:50,490 Grant Hackett: being the best at the table. So it's a very 57 00:02:50,490 --> 00:02:53,280 Grant Hackett: humbling experience, but I just worked out, if I roll 58 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,530 Grant Hackett: up my sleeves, if I actually take the lessons that 59 00:02:55,530 --> 00:02:57,540 Grant Hackett: I took early in sport just around my goal setting, 60 00:02:57,540 --> 00:03:00,329 Grant Hackett: my focus, making sure that I had those kinds of short- 61 00:03:00,329 --> 00:03:02,550 Grant Hackett: term goals that felt like little wins along the way, 62 00:03:02,550 --> 00:03:04,110 Grant Hackett: you would get to a point that you'd feel really 63 00:03:04,110 --> 00:03:07,559 Grant Hackett: satisfied and you're kind of carving out a career outside 64 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,079 Grant Hackett: of sport for yourself. So I very much took that tack. 65 00:03:10,260 --> 00:03:13,769 Grant Hackett: I think going through personal challenges, public divorce and all 66 00:03:13,770 --> 00:03:16,229 Grant Hackett: those sorts of things along the way, they're things that 67 00:03:16,230 --> 00:03:18,119 Grant Hackett: you don't want to go through. They're things that you 68 00:03:18,119 --> 00:03:21,179 Grant Hackett: don't expect to gather so much interest in your personal 69 00:03:21,180 --> 00:03:24,060 Grant Hackett: life as you're an athlete. I never anticipated anything like 70 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:25,950 Grant Hackett: that, but it almost becomes bigger news than what you 71 00:03:25,950 --> 00:03:29,400 Grant Hackett: achieved in sports. But I learned so many great lessons 72 00:03:29,429 --> 00:03:30,750 Grant Hackett: along the way. I don't want to have to go 73 00:03:30,750 --> 00:03:32,279 Grant Hackett: through a lot of that stuff again that I went 74 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,139 Grant Hackett: through many years ago, but I learned so many great 75 00:03:34,139 --> 00:03:36,360 Grant Hackett: lessons that I think have made me a better leader 76 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,490 Grant Hackett: in business. I think it's made me a better partner, a 77 00:03:38,490 --> 00:03:40,920 Grant Hackett: better dad. So I'm thankful for a lot of those 78 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,080 Grant Hackett: lessons that I had along the way, and I think 79 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,000 Grant Hackett: it makes me better at what I do today. And 80 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,759 Grant Hackett: certainly, a lot of those things are quite humbling experiences, 81 00:03:47,759 --> 00:03:51,059 Grant Hackett: as you can imagine, because being so public, they're ultimately 82 00:03:51,059 --> 00:03:53,850 Grant Hackett: amplified a lot more. So you really are tested as 83 00:03:53,850 --> 00:03:54,540 Grant Hackett: an individual. 84 00:03:54,930 --> 00:03:58,231 Sean Aylmer: Tell us about Generation Life, what you do? 85 00:03:58,231 --> 00:03:59,790 Grant Hackett: So Generation Life is a life company. 86 00:04:00,180 --> 00:04:01,350 Sean Aylmer: As in life insurance. 87 00:04:01,350 --> 00:04:04,559 Grant Hackett: Life insurance. Yes, that's correct. So we've got two core 88 00:04:04,559 --> 00:04:07,409 Grant Hackett: products that we sell. One's called an investment bond, which 89 00:04:07,410 --> 00:04:11,249 Grant Hackett: is the most tax effective vehicle after taxpaying vehicle outside 90 00:04:11,250 --> 00:04:14,370 Grant Hackett: of superannuation. So with a maximum tax rate of 30% off, 91 00:04:14,370 --> 00:04:16,440 Grant Hackett: and the tax you pay is much, much lower than that. 92 00:04:16,950 --> 00:04:18,480 Grant Hackett: And then on the other side of the table, we've 93 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,909 Grant Hackett: got a lifetime annuity, but we were really the first 94 00:04:20,910 --> 00:04:23,578 Grant Hackett: of its kind investment linked lifetime annuity where you can 95 00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:26,849 Grant Hackett: choose your own investment products are the same as your superannuation 96 00:04:26,849 --> 00:04:29,399 Grant Hackett: or your account- based pension and have the flexibility to 97 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,349 Grant Hackett: be able to switch in between, which we launched in 98 00:04:31,620 --> 00:04:34,380 Grant Hackett: March of last year. So yeah, two core products. We're 99 00:04:34,380 --> 00:04:37,200 Grant Hackett: the market leader in investment bonds. We currently take 52% 100 00:04:37,260 --> 00:04:39,928 Grant Hackett: of all market inflows at the moment, and the business 101 00:04:39,928 --> 00:04:41,880 Grant Hackett: has grown materially over the past few years. We used 102 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,450 Grant Hackett: to do about 100 to 130 million worth of inflows just four 103 00:04:45,450 --> 00:04:48,510 Grant Hackett: or five years ago where we did over 600 million 104 00:04:48,510 --> 00:04:51,360 Grant Hackett: last year of inflows. So the business has grown quite materially. 105 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,089 Grant Hackett: And to your point, Sean, having a leader like Rob 106 00:04:54,089 --> 00:04:56,580 Grant Hackett: Coombe at the top of this business is full of 107 00:04:56,580 --> 00:04:59,909 Grant Hackett: integrity and high value and performance has certainly helped lift 108 00:04:59,910 --> 00:05:01,950 Grant Hackett: us as a team and grow this business materially. 109 00:05:02,790 --> 00:05:04,949 Sean Aylmer: I presume higher interest rates would also help out too 110 00:05:04,949 --> 00:05:07,799 Sean Aylmer: when you're trying to sell investment bonds or annuities. I 111 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,610 Sean Aylmer: know one of your competitors' Challenger in the annuity spaces, I mean 112 00:05:11,670 --> 00:05:13,620 Sean Aylmer: their result for the last half year was very strong 113 00:05:13,620 --> 00:05:16,529 Sean Aylmer: on the back of sales of annuities. So presumably higher 114 00:05:16,529 --> 00:05:17,190 Sean Aylmer: rates helps. 115 00:05:18,029 --> 00:05:20,910 Grant Hackett: It's interesting for us in terms of our products. So 116 00:05:20,910 --> 00:05:23,308 Grant Hackett: we've got our products that are linked to fixed interest 117 00:05:23,699 --> 00:05:27,060 Grant Hackett: sort of returns, which obviously that's where interest rates help. 118 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:29,910 Grant Hackett: So certainly, for people wanting to take a more conservative 119 00:05:29,970 --> 00:05:32,219 Grant Hackett: approach in their asset allocation and be a little bit 120 00:05:32,220 --> 00:05:35,129 Grant Hackett: more defensive, that's great if you don't like the volatility 121 00:05:35,130 --> 00:05:37,710 Grant Hackett: of markets. But on the other side, we give the 122 00:05:37,710 --> 00:05:40,589 Grant Hackett: full range of choice. You can have anything from full 123 00:05:40,589 --> 00:05:44,460 Grant Hackett: growth products to international equities through to Australian equities, through 124 00:05:44,460 --> 00:05:46,800 Grant Hackett: to fixed interest, through to cash, however you want to 125 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,990 Grant Hackett: have that asset allocation. You can do that on our 126 00:05:48,990 --> 00:05:51,270 Grant Hackett: investment menu, and you can do that on both products, 127 00:05:51,270 --> 00:05:54,389 Grant Hackett: whether it's investment bonds or lifetime annuities. It's really one 128 00:05:54,389 --> 00:05:56,669 Grant Hackett: of our clear points of differentiation as a firm is 129 00:05:56,670 --> 00:05:59,128 Grant Hackett: that that not only do we give investment choice, but we 130 00:05:59,129 --> 00:06:01,049 Grant Hackett: give the flexibility of change, which is a little bit 131 00:06:01,050 --> 00:06:04,469 Grant Hackett: different to I guess Challenger's traditional lifetime annuities. They had 132 00:06:04,470 --> 00:06:07,950 Grant Hackett: some outstanding results that were announced just last week, and 133 00:06:08,580 --> 00:06:10,500 Grant Hackett: they've done a phenomenal job in terms of paving the 134 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:12,809 Grant Hackett: way and educating financial advisors and a lot of their 135 00:06:12,809 --> 00:06:15,660 Grant Hackett: clients on how annuities works in your overall, I guess, 136 00:06:15,660 --> 00:06:18,779 Grant Hackett: investment portfolio to generate a return and cover off longevity 137 00:06:18,779 --> 00:06:21,900 Grant Hackett: and sequencing risk. And we've certainly added a new dimension 138 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:23,820 Grant Hackett: to that as a firm in terms of our investment link to 139 00:06:24,029 --> 00:06:26,820 Grant Hackett: lifetime annuity. But at the end of the day, as 140 00:06:26,820 --> 00:06:30,239 Grant Hackett: a life company, a life insurance company, what we do 141 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,730 Grant Hackett: is we sit here strategically, and we try and develop 142 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:36,178 Grant Hackett: products where people are going to obviously be able to 143 00:06:36,180 --> 00:06:38,880 Grant Hackett: get the best returns but the most flexibility. So they've 144 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,400 Grant Hackett: got that choice. And a lot of our inflows come 145 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,029 Grant Hackett: through financial advisors. We work very closely with educating them 146 00:06:45,029 --> 00:06:47,550 Grant Hackett: and educating the market on how our products actually work 147 00:06:47,550 --> 00:06:50,188 Grant Hackett: and where they fit into the overall scheme of things. 148 00:06:50,610 --> 00:06:52,558 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Grant. We'll be back in a minute. 149 00:06:58,890 --> 00:07:02,010 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Olympian, Grant Hackett, OAM, Chief 150 00:07:02,010 --> 00:07:06,839 Sean Aylmer: Executive of Generation Life. Okay. This week there's been plenty 151 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:08,969 Sean Aylmer: of talk about the future of super and what you 152 00:07:08,969 --> 00:07:12,930 Sean Aylmer: are talking about fits into that very neatly, the whole 153 00:07:12,930 --> 00:07:16,080 Sean Aylmer: idea that the government could intervene to legislate to say 154 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:21,090 Sean Aylmer: superannuation has a specific purpose. And I know that the Treasurer talked about 155 00:07:21,090 --> 00:07:23,219 Sean Aylmer: public housing, things like that, but he also talked about 156 00:07:23,219 --> 00:07:27,149 Sean Aylmer: sustainability and potentially, I suppose what he's hinting at is 157 00:07:27,150 --> 00:07:32,040 Sean Aylmer: changing tax breaks for richer superannuants. Where do you think 158 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,950 Sean Aylmer: our sector's up to super has worked incredibly well since 159 00:07:34,950 --> 00:07:37,530 Sean Aylmer: it was introduced, right? Is it time for change? 160 00:07:38,130 --> 00:07:40,800 Grant Hackett: I think we have to say with our super system, 161 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,420 Grant Hackett: we've been the envy of the rest of the world 162 00:07:42,420 --> 00:07:45,059 Grant Hackett: in terms of what we've been able to accumulate in 163 00:07:45,059 --> 00:07:48,869 Grant Hackett: retirement savings for the average Australian. What's really interesting when 164 00:07:48,869 --> 00:07:52,260 Grant Hackett: you hear the commentary from Jim Chalmers is that to 165 00:07:52,260 --> 00:07:54,630 Grant Hackett: preserve savings, I think has been the key word that 166 00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:58,230 Grant Hackett: he's kind of been articulating out in the public domain now. 167 00:07:58,620 --> 00:08:01,139 Grant Hackett: And look, are there going to be changes in super? 168 00:08:01,139 --> 00:08:03,629 Grant Hackett: I feel like that's pretty unequivocal, but really when you 169 00:08:03,630 --> 00:08:06,570 Grant Hackett: reflect on it, that's nothing new. We saw the coalition 170 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:12,000 Grant Hackett: government back in 2017 legislate the caps in superannuation. So 171 00:08:12,090 --> 00:08:14,579 Grant Hackett: of course, it started out with that 1. 6 million cap. 172 00:08:14,580 --> 00:08:19,740 Grant Hackett: Now that's 1. 7. There was the contributions cap concessional, non- concessional, 173 00:08:20,009 --> 00:08:23,159 Grant Hackett: and then the various other changes that obviously filtered through 174 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,170 Grant Hackett: as part of that. So the narrative of change when 175 00:08:25,199 --> 00:08:28,170 Grant Hackett: it comes to super is pretty consistent. And I think 176 00:08:28,530 --> 00:08:30,870 Grant Hackett: this government has obviously taken that to the next level 177 00:08:30,870 --> 00:08:34,379 Grant Hackett: and saying, well, how much is enough inside your superannuation 178 00:08:34,380 --> 00:08:38,759 Grant Hackett: to satisfy your living requirements in retirement and make sure 179 00:08:38,759 --> 00:08:41,489 Grant Hackett: that that's comfortable. So I think we're going to see 180 00:08:41,490 --> 00:08:43,980 Grant Hackett: some changes to what extent we're all unsure. We are 181 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:48,270 Grant Hackett: constantly hearing the narrative around the $ 5 million threshold as 182 00:08:48,270 --> 00:08:51,150 Grant Hackett: a maximum you're going to have inside super, but we'll 183 00:08:51,150 --> 00:08:53,369 Grant Hackett: just have to wait and see what Jim Chalmers and 184 00:08:54,210 --> 00:08:56,190 Grant Hackett: the rest of the Labor government have coming up for 185 00:08:56,190 --> 00:08:57,420 Grant Hackett: us in this May budget. 186 00:08:58,170 --> 00:09:01,710 Sean Aylmer: What about financial advisors? Here, on Fear and Greed we're 187 00:09:01,710 --> 00:09:05,040 Sean Aylmer: great fans of financial advisors, and I mean, I know 188 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,470 Sean Aylmer: a lot about business just because I'm a journalist, not 189 00:09:07,470 --> 00:09:11,070 Sean Aylmer: because I'm into it. I'm sorry. I don't know what you know obviously, Grant. 190 00:09:11,070 --> 00:09:12,929 Sean Aylmer: But yeah, just watching it, I know a lot about 191 00:09:12,929 --> 00:09:14,549 Sean Aylmer: it yet know I would never, ever make an investment 192 00:09:14,549 --> 00:09:17,490 Sean Aylmer: without thinking about a financial advisor or a big investment without 193 00:09:17,490 --> 00:09:20,790 Sean Aylmer: thinking about a financial advisor. How do we make financial advice more 194 00:09:20,790 --> 00:09:23,760 Sean Aylmer: affordable for the general population? 195 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,460 Grant Hackett: Well, I think the quality of advice review is a 196 00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:29,700 Grant Hackett: start of that journey because it's absolutely critical that the 197 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:33,208 Grant Hackett: mums of dads of Australia actually have financial advice, particularly 198 00:09:33,540 --> 00:09:36,329 Grant Hackett: when it comes to decumulation, when they're in the retirement phase. 199 00:09:36,330 --> 00:09:38,760 Grant Hackett: I mean, accumulation is difficult enough. I mean, you've got 200 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,610 Grant Hackett: your mortgage, you've got your private school fees if you will. 201 00:09:41,970 --> 00:09:45,450 Grant Hackett: You've obviously got saving up for retirement and making sure 202 00:09:45,450 --> 00:09:48,480 Grant Hackett: that you are adequately insured along the way just in case 203 00:09:48,599 --> 00:09:51,210 Grant Hackett: something unforeseen happens. So there's all this complexity, but really 204 00:09:51,210 --> 00:09:55,078 Grant Hackett: the complexity is more amplified when it comes to decumulation. 205 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,840 Grant Hackett: And that's because you're obviously going into retirement, you've got 206 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,000 Grant Hackett: this large pool of money, you think how long is 207 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,280 Grant Hackett: this going to last for? And then you've got all 208 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,370 Grant Hackett: the tax considerations around that, the legacy and estate planning 209 00:10:05,370 --> 00:10:07,110 Grant Hackett: that you want to leave either to your children or 210 00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:09,689 Grant Hackett: to your grandchildren. You want to make sure that you're 211 00:10:09,690 --> 00:10:12,718 Grant Hackett: generating enough income to live comfortably, go on that holiday 212 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,700 Grant Hackett: and do the things that you need to do. But at 213 00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:16,080 Grant Hackett: the end of the day, you don't know how long 214 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,929 Grant Hackett: you're going to live either. So from a Generation Life 215 00:10:18,929 --> 00:10:22,799 Grant Hackett: point of view, we really look at retirement as multifaceted 216 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,860 Grant Hackett: and it takes multiple products and great financial advice to 217 00:10:25,860 --> 00:10:29,458 Grant Hackett: achieve your own personal outcomes around that. So we consider 218 00:10:29,458 --> 00:10:31,830 Grant Hackett: four things absolutely critical as part of that phase of 219 00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:34,559 Grant Hackett: life and one's your account based pension and making sure 220 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,020 Grant Hackett: that you receive appropriate advice around that. And that's obviously 221 00:10:37,020 --> 00:10:39,750 Grant Hackett: your access to capital. It's then looking at, well, what's 222 00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:42,719 Grant Hackett: my lifetime annuity? What sort of risk profile should be 223 00:10:42,719 --> 00:10:45,209 Grant Hackett: attached to my lifetime annuity that's got to cover off 224 00:10:45,210 --> 00:10:48,150 Grant Hackett: my longevity and my sequencing risk? How does that help 225 00:10:48,150 --> 00:10:50,760 Grant Hackett: me access more of my government entitlement, such as your 226 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,380 Grant Hackett: age pension? And then you've got to look at what 227 00:10:52,380 --> 00:10:54,810 Grant Hackett: are my non- super assets also doing for me as well? 228 00:10:55,020 --> 00:11:00,210 Grant Hackett: And you need great financial advice to understand how decumulation works, maximise, 229 00:11:00,210 --> 00:11:03,540 Grant Hackett: and get those emotive objectives and the way you want 230 00:11:03,540 --> 00:11:05,129 Grant Hackett: to live and the goals that you have and the 231 00:11:05,129 --> 00:11:08,010 Grant Hackett: aspirations that you have in retirement ticked off and make 232 00:11:08,010 --> 00:11:09,990 Grant Hackett: sure that you've got the right product mix to be 233 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:12,809 Grant Hackett: able to satisfy that at the same time. So financial 234 00:11:12,809 --> 00:11:15,360 Grant Hackett: advice is absolutely critical to achieve all of that. 235 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:21,330 Sean Aylmer: What about, you talked about decumulation, and particularly if you're an annuity provider, one of 236 00:11:21,330 --> 00:11:24,480 Sean Aylmer: the things about annuities which people dislike is the fact 237 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,370 Sean Aylmer: that they may not have as much to leave their 238 00:11:26,370 --> 00:11:30,300 Sean Aylmer: children at end of life. Now, I'm not convinced that 239 00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:33,390 Sean Aylmer: people should leave anything to their kids. Maybe it's personal, 240 00:11:33,599 --> 00:11:36,270 Sean Aylmer: but the argument that we actually need to do a 241 00:11:36,270 --> 00:11:39,660 Sean Aylmer: better job spending our money in that decumulation stage. 242 00:11:40,109 --> 00:11:41,699 Grant Hackett: Well, it's quite funny. You look at a lot of 243 00:11:41,699 --> 00:11:43,830 Grant Hackett: the research and actually the kids don't want it. They 244 00:11:43,830 --> 00:11:46,140 Grant Hackett: would prefer to see their parents have a great retirement 245 00:11:46,140 --> 00:11:47,910 Grant Hackett: I'm for one, I'm in that bucket. I would love 246 00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:51,270 Grant Hackett: to see my parents absolutely maximise their retirement. And it's 247 00:11:51,270 --> 00:11:53,969 Grant Hackett: quite funny because when people at age, whether it's age 60 or 248 00:11:53,969 --> 00:11:57,059 Grant Hackett: 65 or whenever they enter retirement and dial down their 249 00:11:57,059 --> 00:12:00,390 Grant Hackett: working hours or stop working completely, they're faced with this 250 00:12:00,420 --> 00:12:03,510 Grant Hackett: huge dilemma. On one hand they go, I've got this 251 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,410 Grant Hackett: big pool of money from my superannuation that I've saved 252 00:12:07,410 --> 00:12:10,170 Grant Hackett: over 40 years of working that's got to last me 253 00:12:10,170 --> 00:12:11,639 Grant Hackett: the rest of my life. But I don't know when 254 00:12:11,639 --> 00:12:14,309 Grant Hackett: that is. But right now, the first half of retirement 255 00:12:14,309 --> 00:12:17,218 Grant Hackett: is actually when you're physically able to really enjoy retirement. 256 00:12:17,219 --> 00:12:19,320 Grant Hackett: It's when you can go out and do the holidays 257 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:20,520 Grant Hackett: and do all the things that you want it to do 258 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,590 Grant Hackett: to tick off the bucket list, then the back half 259 00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:24,120 Grant Hackett: of retirement. You want to know that you've got enough 260 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,849 Grant Hackett: there to satisfy any health issues or anything else that 261 00:12:26,849 --> 00:12:28,860 Grant Hackett: you want to achieve through that part of it, but 262 00:12:28,860 --> 00:12:31,440 Grant Hackett: you can't really spend it there. And all the research 263 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,010 Grant Hackett: shows that people materially spend a lot less money, particularly 264 00:12:35,010 --> 00:12:36,690 Grant Hackett: when they hit their late 70s. But really when they 265 00:12:36,690 --> 00:12:39,720 Grant Hackett: hit their 80s, they basically spend a lot less in 266 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,750 Grant Hackett: relative terms. So from that point of view, when you 267 00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:46,710 Grant Hackett: get to retirement, having a lifetime annuity is important because 268 00:12:46,770 --> 00:12:49,469 Grant Hackett: it just safeguards you that you're going to be able 269 00:12:49,469 --> 00:12:52,199 Grant Hackett: to cover off longevity risk that you've got this consistent 270 00:12:52,199 --> 00:12:55,620 Grant Hackett: income stream, you're maximizing your age pension at the same time. 271 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,800 Grant Hackett: But also, a lot of these products, including ours, also 272 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,050 Grant Hackett: have a death benefit available to them. So you're handing 273 00:13:01,050 --> 00:13:03,900 Grant Hackett: over a lump sum of capital for exchange for a 274 00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:07,529 Grant Hackett: lifetime annuity stream, but if you were to pass away 275 00:13:07,530 --> 00:13:11,309 Grant Hackett: earlier than anticipated, say before life expectancy, you're most likely 276 00:13:11,309 --> 00:13:13,170 Grant Hackett: going to receive a death benefit that will go to 277 00:13:13,199 --> 00:13:15,478 Grant Hackett: your estate. So a lot of these products have a 278 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,728 Grant Hackett: lot of these concerns addressed, but at the end of 279 00:13:17,730 --> 00:13:20,549 Grant Hackett: the day, it's about maximizing I income and retirement so 280 00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:23,790 Grant Hackett: you can actually enjoy retirement. And there's this phrase that 281 00:13:23,790 --> 00:13:26,279 Grant Hackett: we've gone out to the market quite heavily with called 282 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,249 Grant Hackett: "regret risk" going into retirement and living off the paint 283 00:13:29,250 --> 00:13:31,679 Grant Hackett: off the walls because you're so worried about how long 284 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,420 Grant Hackett: you're going to live and how long that money's going 285 00:13:33,420 --> 00:13:36,720 Grant Hackett: to last you. Obviously, volatility in financial markets is always 286 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,630 Grant Hackett: a concern and falling off a cliff like a GFC. 287 00:13:39,630 --> 00:13:42,690 Grant Hackett: So there's all this anxiety and stress around retirement, so 288 00:13:42,690 --> 00:13:45,089 Grant Hackett: you don't spend, and then people get to the back 289 00:13:45,089 --> 00:13:46,979 Grant Hackett: half of retirement and they're like, " Oh my goodness, I've 290 00:13:46,980 --> 00:13:50,309 Grant Hackett: actually saved during my retirement, but now I can't spend 291 00:13:50,309 --> 00:13:53,310 Grant Hackett: it because I've physically, so to speak, depreciated too much 292 00:13:53,580 --> 00:13:55,199 Grant Hackett: and my health is not good enough for me to 293 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,480 Grant Hackett: be able to enjoy it." And that's where regret risk 294 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,309 Grant Hackett: kicks in, and that's something that we're trying to help 295 00:13:59,580 --> 00:14:01,680 Grant Hackett: financial advisors and their clients solve. 296 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,549 Sean Aylmer: You are clearly an enthusiast for Generation Life, Grant. What 297 00:14:05,549 --> 00:14:07,890 Sean Aylmer: do you prefer, gold medals or Generation Life? 298 00:14:08,610 --> 00:14:11,370 Grant Hackett: I much prefer this now to be totally honest. I'm 299 00:14:11,429 --> 00:14:15,689 Grant Hackett: equally as passionate about finance and all the financial products 300 00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:17,849 Grant Hackett: that we have here at Generation Life are more broadly 301 00:14:17,849 --> 00:14:20,580 Grant Hackett: in the industry. So yeah, I'm not sure why I 302 00:14:20,580 --> 00:14:22,619 Grant Hackett: get such a kick out of it, but I certainly 303 00:14:23,039 --> 00:14:25,799 Grant Hackett: wake up in the morning enjoying this every bit as 304 00:14:25,799 --> 00:14:27,959 Grant Hackett: much as actually more so than doing those laps. I 305 00:14:27,959 --> 00:14:29,911 Grant Hackett: enjoyed the racing more and swimming, but not the training so much. 306 00:14:29,911 --> 00:14:32,610 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I'm not surprise there. Grant, thank you very much 307 00:14:32,610 --> 00:14:33,810 Sean Aylmer: for talking to Fear and Greed. 308 00:14:34,139 --> 00:14:35,730 Grant Hackett: No worries. Thanks for having me on, Sean. 309 00:14:36,210 --> 00:14:40,049 Sean Aylmer: That was Grant Hackett, OAM, Chief Executive of Generation Life. 310 00:14:40,049 --> 00:14:42,239 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Remember, this 311 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,760 Sean Aylmer: information is general in nature, and you should seek professional 312 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,150 Sean Aylmer: advice before making any investment decisions. Join us every morning 313 00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:50,309 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most 314 00:14:50,309 --> 00:14:53,609 Sean Aylmer: popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.