WEBVTT - Best of Head Game: Working on the Front Line 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.240 We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.680 on which this podcast was produced, the Galliger people of 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:10.280 the Orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:15.760 This episode contains discussions of domestic violence. If this raises 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.880 any issues for you, support is available through the links 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.640 and phone numbers in the show notes. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:22.239 Hi, and here. 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.319 I'm taking a short mid season break and we'll be 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:29.720 back soon with even more great interviews for you. In 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.199 the meantime, I thought I would take a moment to 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.360 reflect on some of the moving conversations I've had with 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:40.960 some incredible frontline workers. In this special episode, you're here 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:45.880 from former police officer Alan Sparks, former firefighter Greg Mullins, 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:52.000 and paramedic Sally Gold. My first guest is Alan Sparks, 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.160 with a career spanning over twenty years. As an operational 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:01.080 police officer, Alan was no stranger to high pressure situations 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.840 for murders, to robberies to rescues. Alan had to confront 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:10.960 intense and difficult cases on a daily basis, but this 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:16.280 took a harsh toll. 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.319 Then we went back to the station. We're just having 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:22.720 a cup of tea, and I remember we were standing 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.840 in the mill room near the sink, and when the 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.720 police issue like an urgent job, you get two distinct 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.520 beeps over the radio and then it said any car 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:36.560 in the vicinity of whatever street it was. Boy swept 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.679 into a stormwater pipe. And normally that's a job that 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:44.320 uniform would attend, not detectives. It's not a storm or 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.639 a drain, which is a large thing you can actually 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.559 walk into. This is a narrow pipe. So I remember 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:51.880 Gave and I we just looked at each other and 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.520 just threw our cups in the sink, raced downstairs, jumped 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.960 in the car, took off up to this street and 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.800 we got there and we'd have five absolutely torrential rainfall 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:06.440 at Cops Harbor, so everything was flooded. And we got 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.799 to the scene. There were two little boys. They were saturated, 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.800 and there was a workman there, an adult male, and 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:14.520 we said to the kids, what's happened. They said, oh, 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.520 gives gives disappeared. I said, where's he disappeared? Mate, and 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.760 they pointed to this whirlpool and I've gone, oh. 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.200 Shit, were they playing in the whirlpool? 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.720 Yeah, they've been playing on their boogiey boards in the 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.840 flooded creek and the whole thing was flooded, and this 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:34.600 whirlpool was massive, was just swirling around, and I thought, great, 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.120 what are we going to do? And then the workman said, look, 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:39.400 you can actually get access to look down the drain 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:40.760 across the road. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.040 So we ran across the. 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.720 Road and there's just two of you. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.240 Yeah, So we lifted up the concrete covers. We took 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.119 our guns and handcuffs off through those in the car, 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.160 jumped into the into the drain, and we looked down. 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:57.239 We could see what we thought was a little boy's 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:01.800 body down the pipe. And I think the workman he 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.200 gave us a rope gave wanted to go down, and 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.359 and I said to Gav, look I'll go down. I'll 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.360 grab him. I'll give you three tugs and I've got him. 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.480 Pulled me back. So I started to go down and 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.520 I realized this rope is going to snap and then 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.080 I'm down there. So I tugged on the rope gave 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.160 pulled me back up to the surface. And I've only 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.720 gone down a few meters and by that stage, the 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.480 State Emergency Service are there, other cops are there, and 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.000 I say this lot of thank God, the professionals here, 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:32.840 they'll take over. And they just gave me a bigger 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:33.440 rope and put me. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:35.440 Son. 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:39.800 I went, you committed anyway. 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.800 And I still remember I'm not a small man. I 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.800 think at that stage, I was probably punching one hundred 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:48.520 plus kilos. I'm six foot two, and this water literally 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:50.480 just carried me down. 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.200 Like a leaf. I was. I was weightless the power 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:53.720 of this water. 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.720 So in fact then that to you, were you thinking, wow, yeah, 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:58.040 I've done to this little boy. 0:03:58.120 --> 0:03:58.520 Yeah. 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:00.760 And our reasoning was if if we get him out, 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.440 if he's dead, we'll we have a chance of reviving him. 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.000 If he's alive, we've got to get him out before 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:07.000 it rains again and he. 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:07.680 Gets washed away. 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:08.960 And what was going through your mind. 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:10.560 I'm a very positive person. 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:12.360 I thought, now he's alive, we'll get him out and 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.160 we'll get him, get him, get him back home. 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.680 It'll be right. So the focus was get to him. 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.640 And I had a torch with me, like a maglight, 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.360 I think, and there's been an estimate. I went down 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:26.560 eighty meters down the pipe, and by the time we 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:30.920 got to where we thought it was him, the light 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:32.880 shot up was just like it was a branch that 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.440 was giving these weird shadows. So what you thought was 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:42.080 the boy, Yeah, this is not good. So I've tugged 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.359 three times on the rope. Thank god, Gavin was in 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.640 the drain. He could see what was going on, so 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:49.760 as soon as I tugg him the rope, they stopped 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.400 the free flow. So I've stopped and my bulk, I've 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.680 actually damned myself in. So suddenly I am I'm engulfed 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:01.479 in water and this water is so powerful. And my 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:03.719 first thought was I hope the guy that tied a 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.800 bowline tied a good bowline around my waist, because all 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.480 I had was just a rope on my arms. So 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.000 then they started to pull me back and I'm not 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:13.960 in a good position here. I thought, I'm going to 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:15.760 die here, I'm going to drown. 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.840 And so you've got this this this backwash just engulfing you. 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.400 Yeah, I'm pretty well submerged under the water, being pulled 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.920 backwards by all the all the se s guys that 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:28.440 cops up on the surface point. 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.680 No proper equipment, just a rope around your boy. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.840 Yeah, So I remember sort of sometimes I'd like create 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:35.480 a bit of an arch, make an air pocket, grab 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:37.040 a quick breath, get under the water, and go back 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.040 under the water again. And then we got back. I've 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:45.599 got back to the surface, thankfully. And then we were 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:49.400 just standing around, going we have to find ways into 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:51.760 this drain. We've got to try and reap frog down 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.280 the drain to try and find him. And then a 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.560 call came over the radio to say they can hear 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.920 a child screaming down the Pacific Highway. Mentally, I'll go on, 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.760 that's a long way away. That's a seriously long way away. 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.640 And it turns out from where we were it was 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.680 about as the craveflis five hundred meters. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:11.920 It's like a maze down there, right. 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.320 Yeah, there's this pipe. I mean, I know it went 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:17.520 to a certain direction. But when we got down to 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:21.240 the highway, the Pacific Highways all blocked off. There's people everywhere, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:23.640 and we jumped out of the car and got to 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:25.440 hear the screams of a child. 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.880 What's going through your head when you're hearing the screams? 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.560 Confusion, absolute confusion. Like I thought the kid was dead. 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.400 I thought we were looking for a body recovery. Yeah, 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.240 there's no way this kid can be alive. I thought 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:42.080 he's trapped against a great somewhere is dead. But then 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.400 to hear the screams, No, he's actually alive. So my 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.840 brain's going dead alive and he's alive. But Michael mar 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.400 the paramedic. Michael was laying on his tummy with his 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.839 head down into this manhole, and we ran over and 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.000 the water was bubbling up on the manhole. But the 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.800 screams are coming up through the water. I'm even more 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.840 confused by this stage, so I called. I said, I 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.800 want a scuba tank. I want to regulator because I 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.040 had done some scuba diving. I said, there are the 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.960 two things I want, And somebody produced a ladder and 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.360 plunked it down the manhole, and there's actual TV footage 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.400 of Gavin trying to squeeze his way down. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:19.560 The camera cruiser. 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:24.280 Yeahound up the emergency services. You've got everyone that's now 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:25.480 over watching this. 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:27.960 And at some stage, I don't know when, but I 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.200 took my soup pants off and I'm there and boxes 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:38.960 stah my ppees. Anyway, so Gav's we're all there. But 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.080 there's these screams, and these these are terrifying screams. A 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.760 child screaming for their life. It was terrifying. So they 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.400 put another rope around me and don't want that. Gav 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.880 went down straight down the ladder. He disappeared under the water. 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.080 I followed him down and the water is not clear, 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:03.280 sobu it's floodwater, it's filthy money. Gav disappeared. I went down. 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.520 I'm under the water trying to film a way around, 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:07.720 and we both came up in the junction of six 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:09.720 of these pipes which were pouring in. 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.120 On top of head torch on is it down there? 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.280 No, it's pitched black. We haven't got a torch, we've 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:19.920 got nothing. And we weren't communicating. We just just knew 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:21.680 what we thought we had to do, and that was 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.720 to search to try and find which pipe is up? 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.960 Followed the voice, right, yeah, yeah. 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.120 And we searched a couple of pipes each and then 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.120 when I went up, I thought it's this one. I've 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:33.800 got to take a punt. I think it's this one, 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.040 because we were conscious if it rains again, we're all dead, 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.520 because downpour, we're dead. We're not going to get out. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:40.960 You're done. 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.760 So I said to Gav, look, I think it's this one. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.240 Can you try and find it a way into this pipe? 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:57.079 So I regret that decision in hindsight, but Gav should 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.920 have been there with me to rejoice in the success 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:04.480 we eventually had. Gab deserved to be there for that 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.480 moment in life. And I've always regretted that I asked 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.160 Gab to leave the drain system. 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.120 And why did you make that decision? What was going 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:14.760 for you head? Was his safety or. 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:16.800 No is to try and get to this kid as 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.120 quickly as we could. If I couldn't get to him, 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.760 maybe up some other way. Unbeknownst to us, the council 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.079 was bringing down a backo. They were going to dig 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.600 up the highway to try and find this kid. That's 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.320 how desperate it was. And so Gave went up, and 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.640 then Michael Marlin, paramedic, came down and he gave me 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.880 a torch, and I think he insisted I put a 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.760 rope around my tummy. But this time I'm on my 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:46.080 fingernails and toenails, crawling up this pipe to try and 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:47.560 get to where I think the kid is. 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:50.440 And again these screams are. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:55.440 Just doing my head and I'm crawling up, literally crawling 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.720 in amongst the concrete and the crap that's in a 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:00.840 concrete pipe, and it's. 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:03.120 Shoulder with the part. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:05.400 I was watching your show the other night where they 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.600 did the exercise being in the water pipe. Yeah wow, okay, 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:13.360 I know that's like yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so I'm 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.640 crawling up the pipe. Michael mar is behind me, screaming 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:18.120 at me. If you got him out, I've got him. 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:18.600 Have you got him? 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:19.679 How long have you been down there? 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:20.520 Ah? 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:22.400 You're cold, your well. 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.720 I'm freezing him miserable. We're freezing and ol. Hears this 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.440 kid screaming. Michael's screaming. So I'm screaming at Michael, like, 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.280 shut the f up. I'm trying to call the kid. 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:34.640 It's okay, mate, I'm coming, I'm coming, I'm coming. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.040 Could he hear your voice? Was he responding? 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:37.800 No, he was. 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.560 He was just he'd lost it. He was hysterical, he was, 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.920 no doubt, hypothermic. He's been in there for forty five minutes, 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.160 hanging on for dear life, because he's just hanging on 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.440 to a log that's stammed across the pipe. If that 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.679 log wasn't there, he was dead because he would have 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.040 got washed down to a great there was no way 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.800 that he would have survived. So he's been hanging on 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.360 there in the pitch dark, with his water just houring 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:04.360 onto his body, screaming and screaming for his life, and suddenly, 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.160 no doubt he can see torchlight. But I don't know 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:11.800 whether he understands what it is. And I really wasn't. 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.640 I wasn't thinking about does he know? Does he know? 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.240 I'm just trying to get to him. I'm absolutely desperate, 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.000 and I started to pray, like, please, God, let me 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.319 get to him, Please don't let him get washed away. 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.880 And I kept crawling and crawling, crawling, and I can 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:30.760 picture it to this absolute moment in time. My torch 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.160 light finally picked up his face. That's all I can 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.000 see was just his face and the illumination of the 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.800 torch hitting his face. It was like I saw a ghost, 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.679 and it is so vivid in my memory. And I 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.160 coaxed him to come towards me because I thought I'm 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:47.200 not going to get to him. 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.200 How far were you away from him when you swim? Oh? 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.199 And probably ten meters and I was about thirty meters 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:58.160 up the yeah, yeah, So I'd crawl thirty meters on 0:11:58.200 --> 0:11:59.680 my guts to get to him. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:00.880 And then he did. 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:02.960 He got washed down to me and I've got hold 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:07.120 of him. And I was like, you've got him, and 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.000 out of the blue, I just said, say thank you God. 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.320 And I'm not a religious person and I'm a very 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.960 spiritual person, but I said, you say thank you God. 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.040 And this little boy he just said thank you God. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.040 He started to bail his eyes out, and I did. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:21.240 I started to bore my eyes out. 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:22.920 So you have this moment where you've got him in 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.640 your arms, he's gripping news. He is he calming down 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:26.440 or is he just still? 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:33.720 He had basically just collapsed with exhaustion, with emotion, with 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.240 a sense of his I feel safe. Now this man's 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:41.200 got me. I feel safe. And then I somehow pushed 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.840 him under me and then he got washed down to 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.559 Michael mar the paramedic. Michael's got him, assessed him there, 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.520 Michael swam him under the water, got to where the 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:54.720 manhole was. Michael climbed up the ladder then and the 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.880 TV foot cameras rolling and they reached down and they 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.920 pulled this little kid out out of the drain and 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.520 he just comes up like a drowned rat. And they 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.040 put him on the ambulance gurn He wraped him up 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.400 an emergency blanket. His mom's there, she's been there through 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.400 the whole thing. She was hearing her child screaming for 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.200 their life. They wrap him up in the blanket. Her 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.959 mum's just hugging him and hugging him. And I get 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.679 out of the pipe. I go to the car and 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.440 I'm sitting in the passenger seat of this car, and 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.320 I was cold. I remember being really cold. 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:29.360 How long have you been down there for? 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:32.400 And I don't know how long. 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:33.360 Had he been down there for. 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.960 At least forty five minutes, at least forty five minutes. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:42.000 And halfway down the pipe, he saw some light and 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:43.720 he reached up and he grabbed hold of a grate 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.600 in the side of the road. Because his vision impaired, 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.560 his glasses went flying as soon as he got sucked 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.920 off the boogie board. Evidently, he tells me that he 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.040 could see shapes and he just started to scream and 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.400 screen for help, and then the water just washed him 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.640 away another three hundred meters, So he's been washed six 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:01.120 hundred meters down the pipe. 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:02.120 Wow. 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.400 And then I'm in the car and just I mean, 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.040 like I'm in shock. I remember going back to the 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:07.680 police station. 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:09.040 Dad. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.760 My wife, she was a cop there. She's in her office. 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.760 She isn't doing she's in a chop protection unit. So 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:16.760 she's in the in her office and they had for 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:18.640 some reason, I had the radio turned down, so she 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.640 didn't know anything was going on. And she saw the 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:23.440 car pull up and she looked out. She saw Gavin 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:28.680 get out in his pants and shirt saturated, holding his 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:29.600 gun on handcuffs. 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.160 She's going, oh, it's strange. 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.480 Then she saw me get out in my box of shorts, 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:40.840 holding my gun on handcuffs, had a lot of blood 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:46.960 in my back and other stuff. I've just gone, yeah, 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.240 from a look like cutting myself on the concrete pipe 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.440 because it was so narrow and trying to get it 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.800 squeeze myself around. So I went into the crime scene 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:58.960 and I've just jumped straight in the shower just to 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:03.120 wash all this felt filthy and deb found me. I 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:04.880 just just curled up in a ball on the bottom 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.480 of the shower. A sist just sobbing my. 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.680 Heart straight after the incident, Yeah it's affected you straight away. 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:16.920 Yeah, I've had a serious, a serious how'd you say? 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.160 Looking at it scientifically, I think I went from being 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:26.120 a sympathetic, nervous state into a massive power, sympathetic. I'm safe, 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:30.720 I'm warm, I'm okay, and my body has just shut down. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.960 My next guest is Greg Mullins, who is widely known 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:43.600 as a legend in the firefighting community. In our interview, 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.000 he took me back to the Black Summer of twenty 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.720 nineteen and shared the impact of that awful time. 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.960 Every state and territory had major fires, so and that 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.200 had never happened before. There used to be sequential they 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.920 come from the north and we'd share fire fight across borders. 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.120 All of a sudden we're in the fight of our 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.920 lives and couldn't help each other. The aircraft we needed. 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.680 California still had fires and they wouldn't let a lot 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:11.880 of them go because a big aircraft we don't have 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.160 any in Australia, or didn't have any in Australia. Then 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.000 we had to lease them, and so they were saying, no, 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.240 we've got our own problems, you can wait. So the 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.760 fires got bigger and bigger. The weather it was the 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.800 worst weather ever recorded, so for months and months and months. 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.880 There's a whole lot of things that contributed to that, 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.920 in the Antarctic and the tropics, and the unusual weather patterns, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.320 but we had drought, so we had strong westerly winds 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.760 coming off the desert, off the interior the out back, 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:45.960 hitting the coast, very low humidity, very high temperatures. I 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:50.520 was fighting fires one day twenty first of December twenty nineteen, 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:55.479 it just about reached fifty degrees in western Sydney. I 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.880 did a twenty six hour shift and ended up in 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.400 bed with the hydration, pretty sick, and you know, we 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.800 saved dozens of hams that night, but it nearly didn't 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:10.000 make it home. And so it was horrendous weather. And 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.879 as a young firefighter, I remember thinking, oh, you know 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.720 the old one hundred degrees fahrenheit, that's thirty eight degrees. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.280 That's about as hot as it would ever get. But 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.359 then we were fighting fires regularly in forty five forty seven. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.560 It was just horrendous. And it took off in November 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.800 again and I was actually in California at the Kincaid 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:34.919 Fire in Sonoma County. So I went over with the 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:40.960 Climate Council. The ABC Australian Broadcasting Commission tagged along and 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.800 I went out to this fire and they did a 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.399 little special and it went to where I think it 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.679 was the seventh of November. Sorry, I'm a nerder, remember dates. 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:55.040 It's a roundabout then and on the and me saying, well, 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.280 look at this fire in California. Here's what's changing with 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.239 climate change. They didn't get big fires like this than 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.520 California this time of year, but now they do same 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.840 in Australia and this build up, this is the worst 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.439 I've ever seen. And I'm really frightened about what's going 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.040 to happen. So the next day after they ran it 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:17.919 across Australia, the fires went wild and lost dozens and 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.000 dozens of homes, some lives, and you're. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.440 Back to back at this stage, you know, every man 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.520 and his dog is out. Are you undermanned as a 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.400 fire service? So all your these resources stretched? 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:31.240 Is it? 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.200 Well? It was just relentless and relentlessly and it was 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.600 just you know, you're going from August and just. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.399 There was no rest months and months, and. 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.919 People who lived in the fire areas and I was 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:45.200 really lucky. I thought, if Sydney gets hit, you know 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.479 that's where the real property losses have traditionally happened, as 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.360 on the outskirts of Sydney and the Blue Mountains near Sydney, 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.679 but we were losing hundreds of homes in regional areas 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.719 which had never happened before, and it just showed how 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.440 big the fires were. But yeah, people were exhausted and 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.800 you couldn't get the interstate assistance because they had their 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.919 own fires. You didn't have enough aircraft, you know. I 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.119 remember watching a drop on the south coast of New 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.359 South Wales, thinking great, and then it was two hours 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.080 before the next one because it had to fly back 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.159 to Sydney and relaid and come back, and it was 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.119 just there was no point, you know, And it was 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.600 and the small aircraft couldn't fly because wind was too strong. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.960 So we'd get days of catastrophic fire weather, which was 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.080 a new rating we'd brought in because of climate change 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.200 because the weather was getting so bad. But most aircraft 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.440 couldn't fly in those days because the wind was too 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.359 gusty and strong, and there was a bad air crash 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.080 a see one thirty hercules went in on one of 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:45.600 these days. 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:46.640 Yeah, I heard about that. 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:51.760 It was just, yeah, horrific. So look, it just got 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.440 worse and worse and worse and culminated on New Year's 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.960 Eve twenty nineteen, the South coast of New South Wales, 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:05.439 which is hundreds of kilometers long, beautiful beaches. Tens of 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:07.840 thousands of people go there for their Christmas holidays. It 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:13.760 was evacuated and there were dozens of huge fires, and 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.240 I remember being down there on Newyear's Day. We left 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:21.280 Sydney about four am. Would have been hundreds of fire 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.040 trucks heading down there, and we just couldn't do a 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.720 thing because we had what we called a pyro convective 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.320 storm above us, and that means the fire was so 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:33.960