1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: From the newsroom. A news still come today. 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: Today. There, I'm Andrew bucklow Well online for you today 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 2: at news dot com at dot au. We've got the 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: latest from the LA riots, some absolutely crazy scenes coming 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: out of the States right now, including that Channel nine 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: reporter who got shot by a policeman. Did you see that? 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: Carl Stepanoby pretty fired up about it yesterday. 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 3: She has her back to him, she has a microphone 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 3: and is standing in front of a camera. We don't 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 3: know what was near her. We don't know what threat 11 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: was so imminent it required a cop to discharge his 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 3: weapon on a reporter, or whether he meant to shoot her, 13 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 3: but it sure looks like that to me. Either way, 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 3: it needs to be properly investigated. 15 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you haven't seen the video of the shooting, 16 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: check it out at news dot com at dot au. 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: We've also got a story online for you today about 18 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: real life of vampires. Yes, I said vampires. Not only 19 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: do they exist, but they're right here in Australia, and 20 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: yes they drink human blood. In just to moment, we're 21 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: going to meet the journal who wrote this story and 22 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 2: he'll tell us about the most shocking things he uncovered. 23 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: Joining me now is Nelson Groom. He's a freelancer writer 24 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: who's just been a piece of news dot com about 25 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: real life vampires. This article blew my mind today, Nelson. 26 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 4: Today, Andrew you, thank you very much for having me. 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: Apparently there are vampire communities all over Australia. I did 28 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: not know this. What can you tell me about them? 29 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: Yes, so the modern day communities, they're known as vampire 30 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: courts and they've really sort of bled into the mainstream 31 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: around the Twilight era. And the thing about subcultures is 32 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: that they're kind of like mushrooms. They're best left to 33 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: grow in the dark. So that's what we're seeing now 34 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: is a lot of the vampire courts sort of shrinking 35 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: back to the shadows. And yes, so they're very underground, 36 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: they hide and playing view but I sort of found 37 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: that they were thriving in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. And 38 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: they're also these courts are connected to a broader sort 39 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: of international network that spans the US and Romania and 40 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: beyond far out. 41 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 2: I guess the big thing about vampires is that they 42 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: consume human blood. That's what we see in all the books, 43 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: in all the movies. Do the real life vampires that 44 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: you investigated actually consume human blood. 45 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 4: They do, not all of them. 46 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: Okay, So in the academic world they're actually known as 47 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: a real vampire, which I think as a term is 48 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: interesting in itself because it suggests that our vampires not 49 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: only exist in the real world, but they exist in 50 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: the academic world. 51 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 4: Like they're acknowledged. 52 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: These people, they do have varying degrees of dedication, so 53 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: they're the most serious ones. They're known as sanguinarians, and 54 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: these are the real deal blood drinkers that You've also 55 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: got some who identify as actual energy vampires, and rather 56 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: than feeding off people's blood, they feed off people's energy. 57 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: So I think you know, I dare say, we probably 58 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: all know a few of them, and if you don't 59 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: know them, then you probably are one. 60 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: Let's talk about those who actually drink human blood. How 61 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: does that work? Where do they get the blood? Why 62 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: do they drink human blood? 63 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: So, yeah, look, that's a good question in terms of why. 64 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: Some believe that it's actually a sort of medical illness 65 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: where they need this blood to feel energized. It's like 66 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: something sort of missing. They feel very lethargic without it. 67 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 4: Okay, like their version of Baroka exactly, that's right, just 68 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 4: a little pick mean up. 69 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: You will find that they will use a what's called 70 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: a donor, which is someone who willingly offers up their blood. 71 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: That can be a friend of the vampire, or it 72 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: can be a you know, partner, romantic sort of sense. 73 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: They will take various sort of medical tests and precautions 74 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: to ensure that it's done safely. Right, Okay, and yeah, 75 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: some people do believe that this you know, taste for 76 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: blood is a sign of a kind of deeper mental 77 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: health condition, and you know, they very well could be right. 78 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: But when vampires, particularly recently, are sworn by this kind 79 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: of code of secrecy, it's like, who's going to diagnose them? 80 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 5: Yeah? 81 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: Okay, that's interesting, the code of secrecy. So I guess 82 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: for your piece, did you find it hard to actually 83 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: get some to speak on the record. 84 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: Yes, certainly it was quite challenging, and I tried to 85 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: not take it personally, Like for a little while I 86 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: was like, oh, you know, am I just not their 87 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: blood type? Or you know, have I eaten a little 88 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,799 Speaker 1: bit too much garlic sauce? 89 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 4: What's going on here? 90 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: But you know, I really can't say that I blame 91 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: them there was one particular Australian vampire who I was 92 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: trying to reach out to, who's known as Don Jason, 93 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: Jason DeMarco. He's a very very interesting fellow, one of 94 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: a kind. So yeah, I was reaching out to Jason 95 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: for a while, couldn't actually get through, but I was 96 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: quite fortunate to get a hold of a sort of 97 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: video profile with Jason, So shout outs to Gillian Mark. 98 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: They shared their wonderful little video profile with Jason that 99 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: helped shed a bit of light on his story. Jason's 100 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: a very interesting guy. He is the leader of the 101 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: Sydney Vampires meet up group, which is something of a 102 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: vampire court. He's also, at least in the past been 103 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: an electioning member for the Liberal Party, so he wouldn't 104 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: be the first bloodsucking member of that party, but I 105 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: have to say he's would have to be the most 106 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: honest one. 107 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 5: My name is Don Jason. I'm an amphire. I just 108 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 5: first awakened to what I was at age four. It 109 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 5: was different to other children. I had an interest in 110 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 5: things that weren't normal, and I used to sag around 111 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 5: saying I'm going to grow up in a bew dracula 112 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 5: For my time, it was unusual. So kids saying he's 113 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 5: going to go up in the new Dracula is quite 114 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 5: an odd thing. I feed of females exclusively. I drink 115 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 5: from the inner thigh. They seem to get an orgasm 116 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 5: of it every time I fed off them. I sometimes 117 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 5: prefer to get in a relationship, like have a girlfriend 118 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 5: and feed off my girlfriend at the time. My fangs, 119 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 5: I have uppo sits and lower sets. They're not clickings, 120 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 5: and I can't wear contacts, so I don't do buy 121 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 5: into all that these surgery, these top ones. I already 122 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 5: had sharp tea, but I had dental surgery to add 123 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 5: a fluctual millimeters. 124 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: So a very interesting guy. But I think you know, 125 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: very fearlessly individual and sure of who he is. So 126 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: if you're listening, Jason, keep doing you. 127 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 2: Can I just ask, I mean, you mentioned Jason, but 128 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: out of all your investigations, what kind of people are vampires? 129 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: Are they odd balls? Are they all goths? Or are 130 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: they just everyday people? 131 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: Look, it's a good question, Andrew. While this community did 132 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: fracture from the goth subculture, I was really interested to 133 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: hear that it's a very diverse mix of people. There 134 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: are said to be doctors, musicians, politicians. As we know, 135 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: there is a real mix of people who who might 136 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: not really lead alternative lives, who on the surface would 137 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: lead quite normal lives. There was an academic that I 138 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: spoke with who said that he likened this to what's 139 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: known as a hyper real religion. So it's about a 140 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: sort of blend of philosophy with religion and popular culture, 141 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: and I think that sort of helps people to find 142 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 1: their identity. That's what really the vampire subculture is about, 143 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: is finding your identity. 144 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: Nelson spoke to a woman for his article who claims 145 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: that she was drugged and bitten by vampires. We'll hear 146 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 2: her story in just a moment. 147 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 4: Welcome back. 148 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 2: I'm joined by journalists Nelson Grohom, who's written a piece 149 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: off us dot com dot au about real life of vampires. Now, Nelson, 150 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: you spoke to a woman from Sydney who wanted to 151 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: be referred to as Crystal. She didn't want to use 152 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: her real name. She made some pretty wild claims about 153 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: her interaction with a vampire court. Can you tell me 154 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: her story? 155 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 4: Certainly so. 156 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: I think I'll preface this one with a very specific 157 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: reason why Crystal story really captured my imagination, and that 158 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: is that in my novel that I've written called The Auction, 159 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: I wrote about a very sort of bloodthirsty breed of yakuza, 160 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: which is the Japanese mafia. And you know, I figured 161 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: that Yakuza vampires, that's something that you'd only find in fiction. Absolutely, 162 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: what I discovered is that the truth can be unbelievable. 163 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: So Crystal shared quite a disturbing story with me about 164 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: a night at a Sydney house party back in the day. 165 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: I think she was eighteen at the time. She'd been 166 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: invited by by an acquaintance to her father's house in 167 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: Bold Clues. It was like a mansion party and when 168 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: Crystal pulled up to the party, she was met by 169 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: members of the Yakuza and the Triads, which is, you know, 170 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,839 Speaker 1: fastical in itself, but at the time these groups had 171 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: a much stronger presence in Australia around Sydney. She later 172 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: learned that the mafia was not the only bloodthirsty groups 173 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: that these guys belonged to, and they were also part 174 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: of the Australian chapter of an international vampire court. So 175 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: Crystal said at the party that she was given a 176 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: glass of champagne, and after drinking it, she pretty quickly 177 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: lost consciousness. 178 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 4: She was laying on the couch. 179 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: She woke up sometime later feeling very lightheaded, and she 180 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: was also covered with bites. I think Crystal said that 181 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: she never reported this incident, and part of the reason 182 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: for that was that she knew that there were some 183 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: powerful people in the vampire courts and that sort of 184 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: held her back from going forward. 185 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 2: And when you say she was covered in bite marks, 186 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: are you saying that it was like a vampire bite, 187 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: that they were potentially trying to get her blood. 188 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe so. 189 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: She was not conscious at the time, of course, and 190 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: she isn't entirely sure what else happened. There was no 191 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: other signs of assault. But I think that Crystal chose 192 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: to share her story with me because she knows that 193 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: I had spoken with other people in the courts and 194 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: perhaps might be better positioned to understand what she'd been through. 195 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: And I'm very grateful that the Crystal trusted me with 196 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: her story. 197 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 2: Was she speaking out to warn people about vampire courts? 198 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 4: I think so. 199 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: I think to show a different side of the story 200 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: which hasn't been shown. And I certainly didn't consider it 201 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: a hit piece or anything like that. I think you know, 202 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: this sort of stuff is very rare in terms of 203 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: what's reported. A lot of the Vampire cords can be 204 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: involved in charity causes, and as we mentioned that it's 205 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: generally it's sort of safe practice with donors. 206 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 4: Et cetera. 207 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: But you know that said, there's always going to be 208 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: people who will abuse their power, and I think that's 209 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: what Crystal wanted to come forward with. 210 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 2: Last question from your research the number of vampires in Australia. 211 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 2: Do we have any idea how many there are? And 212 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: is the group growing or shrinking in popularity? 213 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: It's another good question and another tricky you want to answer. 214 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: I reached out to the ABS and they told me 215 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: that they don't formally recognize vampires in their statistics. Interestingly, 216 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: they do for witches and wickens, which there is quite 217 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: a large number of and that's certainly growing if that's 218 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: any indication of what be happening in the vampire community. 219 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: But I think you know, there is social media groups 220 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: that I identified that had thousands of members, and one 221 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: academic that I spoke with he predicted that these numbers 222 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: would definitely be growing, but he also identified that it's 223 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: pretty tricky to quantify those numbers. You know, what defines 224 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: a vampire? How far did their practices go? How long 225 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: do they live this life? It's hard to get a 226 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: good gauge of. But you know, at the same time, 227 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: when we can't acknowledge them, then we can't really understand 228 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: where they're coming from as well. 229 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: This is a fascinating topic. If anyone's listening and they 230 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 2: want to sync their teeth into it more, you can 231 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: check out Nelson's article on news dot com dot au. 232 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 2: In the meantime, thank you so much for appearing on 233 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: from the Newsroom. 234 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 4: Thank you very much for your time. 235 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 2: Andrew, thank you so much for listening to today's episode. 236 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 2: Have a fang fantastic day and I'll chat to you tomorrow. 237 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: But follow or subscribe to from the Newsroom wherever you 238 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.