Speaker 1: She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2: I'm tiff. This is Role with the Punches and we're
Speaker 2: turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
Speaker 2: to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Speaker 2: Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Speaker 2: Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
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Speaker 2: reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
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Speaker 3: Please be aware that during this episode we do talk
Speaker 3: about the topic of suicide. If you're feeling fragile today,
Speaker 3: maybe it's worth holding off until you're feeling a little
Speaker 3: bit better and able to engage with the content.
Speaker 2: Doroth this await, Welcome to Roll with the Punches.
Speaker 3: Thanks too great to be here with you.
Speaker 2: How are you on this fine day up there in Queensland?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm traveling pretty well today. Actually all good for
Speaker 3: me and I don't know, it's not quite it's not
Speaker 3: quite warm here, but it's not that cold either, so I.
Speaker 2: Feel I jumped on zoom last night and had a
Speaker 2: chat to one of my good friends up in Queensland
Speaker 2: who said, got mug boots on or got the blanky
Speaker 2: on and she said, and it's still and it's twenty
Speaker 2: seven degrees and I wanted to punch here in the face.
Speaker 2: And so as you sit here today saying oh it's no, no, no, don,
Speaker 2: I would not accept it. You are in paradise compared
Speaker 2: to Melbourne's brutal rot that it calls weather.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, indeed, we definitely can't complain they're a bit
Speaker 3: soft though, because we are used to the warmer weather. Right. Well,
Speaker 3: this is the thing.
Speaker 2: And I've always said I'm from Australia, obviously, I'm from
Speaker 2: Tazzy originally, and everyone always comes at me with it
Speaker 2: each but eased of they're cold, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I have I feel like Melbourne goes to the
Speaker 2: extremes in summer and the extremes in winter, which gives
Speaker 2: you no baseline to get comfortable with. It's like, it's
Speaker 2: too bloody hot in summer, I can't cope, and then
Speaker 2: it's too bloody cold in winter. I can't cope, and
Speaker 2: I probably don't. I don't dress appropriately for either.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can always change in the course of the
Speaker 3: day in Melbourne as well.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. Hey, would you like to
Speaker 2: give a little intro to yourself, to myself and my audience?
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. So obviously I live in Brisbane. I have
Speaker 3: my own business called Mentally Wealthy, and we provide training
Speaker 3: solutions to organizations to help create mentally healthier workplaces. So
Speaker 3: I've got a passion for mental health and resilience and
Speaker 3: that really comes from my personal lived experience of having
Speaker 3: a very significant mental health crisis. My story would have
Speaker 3: actually featured on an episode of Australian Story which aired
Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen, So I'm not sure if you knew that.
Speaker 3: No I didn't.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm going to have to go and watch
Speaker 2: that now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it still is available via their website and they
Speaker 3: did a wonderful job with it. So yeah, back in
Speaker 3: twenty twelve, while I was working as a human resources professional,
Speaker 3: I had a crisis of confidence, had an argument at
Speaker 3: work with somebody and it sort of triggered a chain
Speaker 3: reaction and yeah, unfortunately I started to be plagued by
Speaker 3: really negative thoughts, and it all happened in a relatively
Speaker 3: short time, sort of like seven to ten days. Having
Speaker 3: said that, I think the cracks were always there, like
Speaker 3: you know, like many people, I have some childhood trauma
Speaker 3: and you know, other sort of adverse life events that
Speaker 3: have obviously sort of affected my mental health. But generally
Speaker 3: I was known as a really positive person, enthusiastic, happy,
Speaker 3: go lucky, and nobody foresaw that I would actually get
Speaker 3: to a point where I made an attempt on my life.
Speaker 3: So it's really big things. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I listened to a little bit of like I said
Speaker 2: to you before, just a little bit of a podcast
Speaker 2: that you've done a few years ago talking about your experience,
Speaker 2: and I really warmed to listening to it because it
Speaker 2: sounded like a very unique and relatable version of events
Speaker 2: that was just struck me as being so like ordinary
Speaker 2: and inverted commas, Like you know, we think that there's
Speaker 2: there's something I'm really big on this whole, like a
Speaker 2: I don't know, I feel like I go for the
Speaker 2: jugular on the whole, you know this or that kind
Speaker 2: of attitude of giving answers. It's like, oh, well, this
Speaker 2: is resilience, and it's like, no, maybe maybe that's resilience
Speaker 2: and maybe it's dissociation. Like maybe Tip getting in the
Speaker 2: boxing ring and fighting is is resilience and toughness, or
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't tough because she was. What she discovered
Speaker 2: later is she was kind of just a little bit
Speaker 2: dissociated in that environment, which was real strength in the
Speaker 2: boxing ring. So that's maybe and maybe that's a good
Speaker 2: thing in that environment if you're aware. So it's that
Speaker 2: whole nuance around Yeah, but maybe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Look, I think this topic is quite complex,
Speaker 3: and you know, it's individuals are complex. People are human
Speaker 3: are very complex, and so I personally don't think that
Speaker 3: anyone is immune to a suicidal crisis. You just never
Speaker 3: know what's going to happen in life. You know, we
Speaker 3: get curveballs all the time, and you know, in my circumstances,
Speaker 3: I often think of it now as like a perfect storm.
Speaker 3: You know, this sort of collision of the challenge that
Speaker 3: I had at work and my history and it just created, unfortunately,
Speaker 3: quite a catastrophic situation and you know, may very well
Speaker 3: have resulted in me no longer being around. So yeah,
Speaker 3: thankfully that wasn't the outcome. Thankfully. I woke up in
Speaker 3: hospital and very soon after came to the conclusion that
Speaker 3: I must be meant to be here, and I became
Speaker 3: very interested in why it happened, you know, how I
Speaker 3: could avoid it happening again, and what I was going
Speaker 3: to do next, because I thought, if this can happen
Speaker 3: in my life, I think maybe I'm not on the
Speaker 3: right path. And so I left my corporate job. Interestingly,
Speaker 3: I set up my own business A sort of year
Speaker 3: and a half later, I would say, so, I did
Speaker 3: some additional studies, sort of transitioned from HR to being
Speaker 3: a career coach, and yeah, set up my own business,
Speaker 3: which I often marvel at because I think if anything
Speaker 3: will test your mental health, it's running your own business.
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So to do that with Bragio mental health, I
Speaker 3: think is quite interesting. But you know, mostly it's been good.
Speaker 3: There's been a few little sort of challenges along the way,
Speaker 3: but yeah, that's sort of where I went next. And
Speaker 3: after seven years as a career coach, I had this
Speaker 3: feeling I wanted to be one to many, not to
Speaker 3: not one to one, and I became a mental health
Speaker 3: estaid instructor and ultimately sort of four and a half
Speaker 3: years ago, transition full time into mental health and resilience.
Speaker 3: So we have sort of tailored programs. We have a
Speaker 3: suite of programs for our clients. I don't do one
Speaker 3: on one work. It's really sort of training and speaking,
Speaker 3: and I love it and it feels like a way
Speaker 3: to have transformed what was sort of one of my
Speaker 3: biggest challenges into something that's helpful to other people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's to think that in seven days, that an
Speaker 2: experience can create an onset of a seven day turnaround
Speaker 2: from being perceived mentally well and doing life to having
Speaker 2: made an attempt on that life. Can you share a
Speaker 2: little bit about the experience of that as much as
Speaker 2: you'd a little or as much as you'd like to,
Speaker 2: and that you'd think would be valuable.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure. So after that sort of incident at work
Speaker 3: and having these sort of self doubts come up, like
Speaker 3: I said, it sort of triggered this chain reaction. So
Speaker 3: everything that I was sort of experiencing, I was seeing
Speaker 3: through this lens of I'm not good enough, there's something
Speaker 3: wrong with me, and that stuff had been there, but
Speaker 3: I'd done years of psychotherapy. I thought that I put
Speaker 3: it all to bed, but yeah, I just felt so
Speaker 3: much doubt. I remember walking out of meetings and thinking, Oh,
Speaker 3: they know you've got no idea what you're doing. I
Speaker 3: was doing something new in the organization I worked for.
Speaker 3: I was on a project and I was leading a
Speaker 3: small team, which was the first time I'd done that
Speaker 3: in that company, and I'd been there sixteen years at
Speaker 3: the time. So yeah, this nagging doubt was just there,
Speaker 3: and the voice got louder and louder, and you know,
Speaker 3: it would have been great to reach out to somebody
Speaker 3: and let them know what was going on, but I
Speaker 3: felt if I did that that I would be broadcasting
Speaker 3: that I was a failure and I just my ego whatever,
Speaker 3: I could not cope with that. I just kept it
Speaker 3: to myself. And yeah, like hid what was going on.
Speaker 3: And at the time, my partner was away. He rarely
Speaker 3: went away. I think it was he went on a
Speaker 3: boys trip in his comby with a mate, and so
Speaker 3: we're about four years into our relationship then, and I
Speaker 3: didn't want to tell him what was going on because
Speaker 3: he'd never really gone away on a trip before, and so,
Speaker 3: you know, didn't want to spoil that for him, and
Speaker 3: the leader that I had at the time, as she
Speaker 3: was away overseas as well. So you know, I think
Speaker 3: there were just these little things that you know, contributed
Speaker 3: to that perfect storm, if you know what I mean. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: just the voice was louder and louder, and I started
Speaker 3: to think that I'll get sacked from work, which you know,
Speaker 3: in hindsight, sixteen years in with a good performance record,
Speaker 3: that was extremely unlikely. But you know, when we get
Speaker 3: into this mindset, we're not rational, and so you know,
Speaker 3: and the fact I wasn't talking to anyone about what
Speaker 3: was going on, you know, then thoughts just got out
Speaker 3: of control. And then like the thought of losing my job,
Speaker 3: you know, I was just like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 3: going to be a terrible role model to my son.
Speaker 3: He was only two at the time this happened. And
Speaker 3: my partner had this property at townhouse when we met,
Speaker 3: and not long before this, I talked him into refinancing
Speaker 3: it to be better for our families' finances. And I
Speaker 3: just thought, if I lose my job, we're going to
Speaker 3: lose that house. And that was his townhouse and that
Speaker 3: was his batchpad. So I just felt this high percent
Speaker 3: of responsibility which is related to my childhood, and I
Speaker 3: just felt like I was basically mucking everything up, and
Speaker 3: so I just couldn't think of a way forward or
Speaker 3: how to get myself out of the mess. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I just in the end was like, I I can't
Speaker 3: I can't handle this. I don't know how to fix it.
Speaker 3: And I think the best solution would be that I'm
Speaker 3: not here. My family will be better off without me.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, Unfortunately, on the twelfth of August twenty twelve,
Speaker 3: I made an attempt on my life. And as I said,
Speaker 3: it's actually been featured in austraighted story, So maybe if
Speaker 3: some of the listeners are interested, they could check that out. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and thankfully I survived that experience, and I'm so grateful.
Speaker 3: And I've actually had a second suicidal crisis that not
Speaker 3: everybody knows about about two years ago and a bit
Speaker 3: over two years ago, and it played out very differently
Speaker 3: because last time I didn't speak to anybody, and this time,
Speaker 3: you know, I talked to my partner about what I
Speaker 3: was going through. I got in to see a psychologist.
Speaker 3: I had friends around me that knew what was happening.
Speaker 3: So I was talking about things and I got help,
Speaker 3: and it never actually escalated to the point of me
Speaker 3: making another attempt. I certainly had ideation, and it was
Speaker 3: such an interesting experience because I didn't think it could
Speaker 3: happen to me again, because you know, I work in
Speaker 3: this space, and you know I've got such a really
Speaker 3: solid resilience toolkit. Now, yeah, just didn't really didn't think
Speaker 3: it was possible, and I actually felt quite this is
Speaker 3: a strong web. But I felt disgusted in myself, to
Speaker 3: be honest, I felt like, who am I that when
Speaker 3: the going gets tough, I want to like exit stage left.
Speaker 3: I was like, what is that? Like, where does that
Speaker 3: come from?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 3: I think that's appropriate of that my mind wants to
Speaker 3: go there. And I did talk to the psychologist who
Speaker 3: was treating me about that, and he said, it's sort
Speaker 3: of like the ultimate escape fantasy. But you know, for
Speaker 3: somebody like me, you know there's a real risk because
Speaker 3: I had this previous attempt. So yeah, that was a
Speaker 3: really interesting experience, and it was sort of nine weeks
Speaker 3: of being in a really challenging place where I had
Speaker 3: these thoughts just constantly plaguing me. And after nine weeks
Speaker 3: I actually got to a point where I actually went
Speaker 3: and had a coffee with a friend and she said,
Speaker 3: how are you? What's been happening? And the time I'd
Speaker 3: seen her last was just before i'd started to unravel,
Speaker 3: and I shared with her what had been going on,
Speaker 3: and she was really shocked and was like, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 3: you know, I can't believe that. I wish you had
Speaker 3: to call me all of that stuff. Thankfully, I was
Speaker 3: speaking to some friends, but after we met, I realized
Speaker 3: that I'd gone to that coffee catch up feeling okay,
Speaker 3: like feeling well enough that day, but when I left,
Speaker 3: I actually felt really down again, and I felt like
Speaker 3: I felt almost like hopeless again. And I was like, wow,
Speaker 3: like that's a really interesting energy. How did I go
Speaker 3: from where I was to that? And I sort of
Speaker 3: realized that by talking about it, it was like I
Speaker 3: dropped back into the energy almost like I was, you know,
Speaker 3: marinating in that again. And I was just like, wow,
Speaker 3: like this isn't how I want to feel at all?
Speaker 3: How do I want to feel? And so I really
Speaker 3: started to think about reflect on, you know, what is
Speaker 3: it I want? What is it I want to feel?
Speaker 3: What is it I want to exist in my life?
Speaker 3: And I thought you know, I want my phone to
Speaker 3: ring for my business. You know, I want to feel joyful,
Speaker 3: and you know I want to feel connected. And so
Speaker 3: I really just sort of channeled this sort of feeling
Speaker 3: and thought, right, I don't have to talk to everybody
Speaker 3: about what's going on. I'm already getting professional help. I've
Speaker 3: got a handful of friends that I'm speaking to. I
Speaker 3: don't actually think it's serving me to just keep going
Speaker 3: over what has been going on in my brain and
Speaker 3: my life the past sort of a couple of months.
Speaker 3: And so, yeah, it was just this moment of Nope,
Speaker 3: this is I'm going to step into what it is
Speaker 3: that I actually want to feel. And from that point
Speaker 3: I was able to just turn things around again, which
Speaker 3: was pretty Yeah, felt great.
Speaker 2: Wow, thank you for sharing that when you what I
Speaker 2: was going to ask, And I guess it applies to
Speaker 2: both scenarios, but especially that first one where you woke
Speaker 2: up in hospital. What was what did it feel like?
Speaker 3: Or what?
Speaker 2: How do you grasp a sense of self when when
Speaker 2: a part of you has taken the wheel and acted
Speaker 2: not in your best interests in it? So, like, how
Speaker 2: do we separate the emotion and the actions and the
Speaker 2: decisions from the person that's experiencing that, because I think
Speaker 2: that's the hardest part for people is like I do
Speaker 2: this action, but I want to live and I just
Speaker 2: want to like it. And for those of us who
Speaker 2: haven't experienced that, it's it's like, how do we get
Speaker 2: a grasp of the understanding on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right when I woke up in the hospital, like
Speaker 3: it just felt surreal, I actually lost a lot of time.
Speaker 3: So I've got a black spot in terms of what
Speaker 3: happened on that afternoon. I knew, you know, what I
Speaker 3: had done, but yeah, like I said, that was a
Speaker 3: black spot. And so I woke up like really disoriented.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't know where I was, felt really
Speaker 3: hot and uncomfortable. It had had these hypothermia blankets on me,
Speaker 3: and I was in like the er and you know,
Speaker 3: there's really bright lights. My mother in law was there
Speaker 3: in my partner, and so I was really shocked because
Speaker 3: it wasn't the outcome I expected. And so yeah, once
Speaker 3: I sort of worked out what had gone on, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I just sort of process that, and as I said,
Speaker 3: fortunately for me, I thought I must be meant to
Speaker 3: be here, because I don't think that is the conclusion
Speaker 3: for everybody.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I've certainly heard of people saying, oh my gosh, I've
Speaker 3: failed at that as well. Thankfully that wasn't the reaction
Speaker 3: that happened for me. But yeah, it was really difficult
Speaker 3: to sort of process that I had that I had
Speaker 3: done this, that I, you know, had taken that sort
Speaker 3: of action, because, like I said, I was a sort
Speaker 3: of person that no one would think would do that,
Speaker 3: including me, including me, you know, just like you know,
Speaker 3: really happy person, positive, cheerful, you know, people would say
Speaker 3: to me when I was young and even as an adult,
Speaker 3: like I want whatever you're on, you know, and that
Speaker 3: wasn't a mask, that is my disposition. But it seems
Speaker 3: that sometimes I I can just experience such incredible self
Speaker 3: doubt and shame. I think shame's a really big part
Speaker 3: of all of this. Shame is huge. I think it's
Speaker 3: definitely something that can put people at risk of suicide. Shame,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, it's yeah, it wasn't a difficult. It
Speaker 3: wasn't an easy situation to reconcile at all. And I
Speaker 3: think like from both of those experiences, one of the
Speaker 3: biggest takeaways is really just that it's not the answer.
Speaker 3: It's never the answer, and that we are always changing
Speaker 3: and our circumstances are always changing as well, and so
Speaker 3: it's just so important that we can like hang on
Speaker 3: and hang in there and that the people around us
Speaker 3: have some idea how to support us if we're having
Speaker 3: sort of suicidal thoughts or even just experiencing mental health problems,
Speaker 3: because you know, that's the start of it usually, and
Speaker 3: so you know, letting people know that it's temporary, that
Speaker 3: all of that feelings are temporary.
Speaker 2: I wrote down before when you were talking, I wrote
Speaker 2: down what's holding me together? And because I was thinking
Speaker 2: of like that understanding of what are the things that
Speaker 2: are holding us together that when and we may not
Speaker 2: be aware of it, but when they a few of
Speaker 2: those links disappear in a moment like the perfect storm
Speaker 2: you described, that we then end up like hanging in
Speaker 2: another space momentarily. It's and it's it just makes me
Speaker 2: kind of also think about that, reflecting on what you know,
Speaker 2: the difference between coping mechanisms and how much and I
Speaker 2: guess it's more of the for me, the awareness of them.
Speaker 2: Are we aware of how we're coping? And coping is
Speaker 2: not a bad thing or a good thing. It's just
Speaker 2: a thing, and there's you know, there's a continuum, and
Speaker 2: there's a level of coping we just have to do
Speaker 2: in life, and there's also a level of maybe self
Speaker 2: exploration or healing or whatever our journey, for lack of
Speaker 2: a better word requires. What do you have any thoughts
Speaker 2: on those types of things? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Sure, Look, I think ideally we want to thrive. We
Speaker 3: want to spend as much time as we can thriving.
Speaker 3: And I think you're absolutely right self awareness is part
Speaker 3: of that and healing because we all have some form
Speaker 3: of trauma, right. I remember years ago I was at
Speaker 3: like a it was like a personal growth sort of experience.
Speaker 3: We sort of sat in circle for a few days
Speaker 3: and everyone was sort of addressing their stuff, so to speak.
Speaker 3: And I met this beautiful girl there who was much
Speaker 3: younger than me, and I gave her a lift after
Speaker 3: the retreat. And during the retreat, I realized that she
Speaker 3: had had, you know, some pretty challenging childhood experiences. And
Speaker 3: I said, oh my gosh, I just feel so sad
Speaker 3: that you had to go through that. You know, it
Speaker 3: just doesn't seem fair, you know, the way life happens sometimes.
Speaker 3: And she said to me, Donna you know, we've all
Speaker 3: got trauma, right, like, you know, it's not a matter
Speaker 3: of my trauma's bigger than your trauma. And she said, look,
Speaker 3: if you've led this charmed life, you know, your first
Speaker 3: relationship breakup can be your trauma. You know, like it's
Speaker 3: it's about how we respond to this stuff and how
Speaker 3: we feel about this stuff and the messages we take
Speaker 3: from it and everything and so and the baggage that
Speaker 3: we take forward from those experiences. And what she said
Speaker 3: really resonated with me. You know, I think that there
Speaker 3: are a lot of people walking around in our communities
Speaker 3: that have trauma. There are a lot of people with shame,
Speaker 3: and a lot of people don't know what to do
Speaker 3: with this stuff, you know, and so yeah, I think
Speaker 3: all of that can put us at risk of mental
Speaker 3: health problems. And you know, in terms of that, you know,
Speaker 3: spectrum of coping. You know, coping is this great and
Speaker 3: it's a it's partly you know what resilience is our
Speaker 3: ability to cope with the challenges of life. But sometimes
Speaker 3: that coping can be adaptive, you know, like having practices
Speaker 3: like breathing, you know, techniques. I'm a cyclist, riding my
Speaker 3: bicycle is my happy place. I would do and even
Speaker 3: if it wasn't good for you, because it makes me
Speaker 3: so happy, right, And so that's obviously adaptive, you know,
Speaker 3: going to the gym, you know, eating nutrition, nutritious food.
Speaker 3: But then lots of us have maladaptive strategies, so you know,
Speaker 3: obviously drinking could be one of those, or drinking excessively
Speaker 3: eating you know, food. For many of us, we have
Speaker 3: an interesting relationship with food. It's comfort, you know, the
Speaker 3: same you know, it could be said for even TV.
Speaker 3: And so it's sort of like, what what are we
Speaker 3: getting from this experience? You know, because often we're just numbing,
Speaker 3: you know, it's a coping strategy of just not feeling
Speaker 3: that emptiness inside or you know, the negative self talk
Speaker 3: or you know, the racing thoughts, all of that stuff.
Speaker 3: So you know, I like to think that I have
Speaker 3: really good resilience practices now, but you know, two years
Speaker 3: ago that wasn't even enough to stop me from having
Speaker 3: suicidal thoughts again. And so I really love the statement
Speaker 3: that resilience is a state, it's not a trait. And
Speaker 3: so you know, it's something that we can build, but
Speaker 3: you know, there are times when it can be really
Speaker 3: tested if we have new challenges in our life, you know,
Speaker 3: if we're things are rocky with our relationship, or you know,
Speaker 3: we've just start a new job, or oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: you've just had a baby. We do you might need
Speaker 3: some additional or different resilience practices right now, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 3: does that answer the question, do you think?
Speaker 2: Tiv Yeah, one hundred percent. And it touches on another thing.
Speaker 2: I rant and rave about a lot, which is the
Speaker 2: you know, like the how to build resilience and it
Speaker 2: people it's such a selling point to carry on about
Speaker 2: doing the hard things. Yeah, you know, go do a
Speaker 2: hard workout, Go get in a cold fucking shower, go
Speaker 2: and do the Go do a marathon, Go push yourself,
Speaker 2: push yourself pushes like without context. Like sometimes people's hard
Speaker 2: thing is actually the easy thing that lets them run
Speaker 2: from the thing that's really hard. Like it's not about
Speaker 2: the hard thing. It's about the thing you don't want
Speaker 2: to do or the thing that you're trying to avoid.
Speaker 2: But that just gets left out of the conversation because
Speaker 2: it's not sex and you can't sell that. Yeah, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I just think that you touched on that perfectly.
Speaker 3: Then Yeah, that's a really good point what you just raised, right,
Speaker 3: because like I used to just have this history of
Speaker 3: trying to prove myself because I always thought there was
Speaker 3: something wrong with me.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: So I went to UNI as a mature aid student,
Speaker 3: you know, set myself a goal of you know, getting
Speaker 3: the Chairman's Award or whatever. You know, it just worked
Speaker 3: so hard, practically got Stevens. You know, like my GPA
Speaker 3: was six point two and then you know, I rode
Speaker 3: from Sydney to the Gold Coast twice. I've done the
Speaker 3: Kokoda track and your guinea. It was like I was
Speaker 3: always trying to prove to myself and to other people
Speaker 3: that I was okay. So yeah, I agree with what
Speaker 3: you're saying. Sometimes we're running from things or I guess
Speaker 3: it comes from it relates to where is this coming from?
Speaker 3: Is this coming from or is it coming from love
Speaker 3: or you know some other positive sort of emotion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like for me, being still is harder than being
Speaker 2: busy and do it. Like getting in the boxing ring
Speaker 2: that was easy. Like I remember in my early thirties
Speaker 2: when I just started boxing and you know, i'd had
Speaker 2: one or two fights and early thirties, so you know,
Speaker 2: you're not twenty anymore, and it was like, sometimes I
Speaker 2: get home from work. I've got a full time job,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, really, just I'm too tired. I'd probably
Speaker 2: show a day off. I'll just I'll just go for
Speaker 2: a walk. And the overwhelming sense of dread and loneliness
Speaker 2: would overcome me on a walk and I would be like,
Speaker 2: what the F is this? Like what is this? Because
Speaker 2: being still and quiet gave me that space. But I
Speaker 2: just hadn't needed to do that before, because I spent
Speaker 2: my younger years just go, go go, I'll just keep
Speaker 2: I'll just do something different. I'll just show you so
Speaker 2: that I can believe it myself, how tough and independent
Speaker 2: and bloody brilliant I am totally tiff.
Speaker 3: You know that resonates completely with me, but I think
Speaker 3: it will with lots of your listeners too, you know,
Speaker 3: if they actually stop and think about it. You know,
Speaker 3: often we're just you know, I mentioned the numbing sort
Speaker 3: of activities we engage in that being busy is absolutely
Speaker 3: one of them as well. Yeah, yeah, we're just on
Speaker 3: that hamster well because it's a little scary when you stop,
Speaker 3: you know, and you have space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm sure you're the same, like you've you've
Speaker 2: jumped into this area of having a business to make
Speaker 2: a difference. So a business where you're you're learning and
Speaker 2: you're improving and then you're passing on that knowledge and
Speaker 2: it's fascinating. And that's a bit like what this podcast
Speaker 2: was for me. It was like, how who could I
Speaker 2: talk to to learn and share the learning and figure
Speaker 2: it out? How comes? Some people get punched in the
Speaker 2: face and they rise, and some people get punched in
Speaker 2: the face and they fall, And you know it was
Speaker 2: I was talking to one of my close friends recently
Speaker 2: and I was like, you know, I tell that story.
Speaker 3: I just told you.
Speaker 2: Then I tell that as a story where I, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm walking along since killed a road and I'm burst
Speaker 2: into tears and I feel those feelings and I'm like,
Speaker 2: what the hell?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: I'm too what is this? And there's been moments this
Speaker 2: year that I have a smaller but a familiar experience
Speaker 2: where I stop the race and I just go how
Speaker 2: can I It's a decade on and I've told that
Speaker 2: story for a decade, and I've made changes, and I've
Speaker 2: done healing and I've worked on myself and I've figured
Speaker 2: stuff out and then there'll be a moment and I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's familiar. We're still We're still here at times, bloody hell.
Speaker 3: It's frustrating sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like you know that self awareness is
Speaker 2: brilliant and incredibly frustrating as well, because like once you
Speaker 2: open that box, once you peel that layer back, you
Speaker 2: can't put that layer back on and go back to
Speaker 2: your blissful ignorance. It's like, oh, we know what's under
Speaker 2: the hood now, Yeah, there's no option but to do
Speaker 2: the work, you know.
Speaker 3: And such a big fan of the saying we know better,
Speaker 3: we do better as well, it's like it almost feels
Speaker 3: like an obligation now we know, you know, yeah, we
Speaker 3: address this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also think it's really beautiful. Like I think
Speaker 2: of watching the world want to, you know, falling into
Speaker 2: what we we tend to seek or believe or do,
Speaker 2: and that is that overwhelming sense of I just have
Speaker 2: to get through this so that life can be better.
Speaker 2: But actually I've said this a lot now, it's like, actually,
Speaker 2: little do I know, maybe today's the very best circumstances
Speaker 2: that I'm ever going to have in my life, and
Speaker 2: maybe like a moment before something unfolding or me learning
Speaker 2: something that's going to challenge me, and how much of
Speaker 2: our lives do we miss being grateful for the now
Speaker 2: it's always I've just got to get through this and
Speaker 2: to get to the good part of my life where
Speaker 2: everything's easy and feels good. And it's like, no, because
Speaker 2: feeling good is relative.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's not a destination, right, We've got to
Speaker 3: be able to incorporate it into the journey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing that's bad ever stays as bad as it was,
Speaker 2: but neither there's any of the good stuff. And it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: better just get good enjoying now, I better just get
Speaker 2: good at being present. Yes, what are some of the
Speaker 2: what are some of the things that maybe you learned
Speaker 2: or implemented along the way that were quite pivotal for
Speaker 2: you personally?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, gratitude is definitely one of them. A massive
Speaker 3: fan of gratitude. It's got a great evidence base. Now,
Speaker 3: But I've had a practice that's been going on for
Speaker 3: seven years and it consists of me and at the
Speaker 3: moment there's three of us at one stage that used
Speaker 3: to be four of us, and we text three things
Speaker 3: that we're grateful for every day. So I think five
Speaker 3: is a great maximum number to have in this sort
Speaker 3: of practice, because you've got to read everyone's gratitudes every day.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it blew me away. I heard about this
Speaker 3: practice from a woman called Pam Grout who was interviewed
Speaker 3: on a podcast I've listened to, and she's got a
Speaker 3: great little book called Sank and Grow Rich, and so
Speaker 3: she called them her power Posse, her little gratitude group.
Speaker 2: And so that wasn't pussy, was it was possy because
Speaker 2: that could mean very different things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when I heard about it, I was like,
Speaker 3: oh gosh, I want some of that. So I asked
Speaker 3: a friend if she'd liked to do it with me,
Speaker 3: and so started with two of us, and then we
Speaker 3: decided to invite some like a mutual friend, and then
Speaker 3: we sort of ultimately grew it to five. And so
Speaker 3: either on the actual day in the evening we text
Speaker 3: three things were grateful for, or the next morning for
Speaker 3: the day before. And what I love about it is
Speaker 3: you have accountability. People are expecting to receive your gratitude.
Speaker 3: You get a reminder when theirs comes in. Because I
Speaker 3: would often write it in a journal and forget when
Speaker 3: I went to bed, remember when I went to bed.
Speaker 3: But what I think is one of its most amazing benefits.
Speaker 3: And as far as I recall, you know, Pam didn't
Speaker 3: speak about this, but you actually get to vicariously live
Speaker 3: the joy of other people in the group. And that
Speaker 3: just blew my mind because it's like you're witnessing other
Speaker 3: people's lives. And as you can appreciate, in seven years,
Speaker 3: a lot has happened in all of our lives. You know,
Speaker 3: someone fell in love for the first time. You know,
Speaker 3: one of our members lost her husband. You know, a grandchild.
Speaker 3: All of this stuff. I mean, they're the big things,
Speaker 3: but honestly, it's about the little things. You know. It's
Speaker 3: about for me, exchanging a smile in the supermarket, someone
Speaker 3: letting me in the traffic. You know, my son and
Speaker 3: I am solving a problem last night. He's got a
Speaker 3: part time job at macas and we couldn't get the
Speaker 3: act to work and we solved that. And so, you know,
Speaker 3: it's these little things, but savoring those things actually helps
Speaker 3: your mindset. I love the saying every day is not good,
Speaker 3: but there is good in every day, and so we've
Speaker 3: got that part of our brain called the rats or
Speaker 3: the articular activating system and it tunes into whatever we
Speaker 3: pay attention to. So when you see the good, you
Speaker 3: see more good and so you know, that is so
Speaker 3: amazing for our mental health and well being. So that's
Speaker 3: been a really big one.
Speaker 2: I'm going to implement that. I'm going to get the
Speaker 2: power posey. I love it. One of my favorite practices
Speaker 2: is I can't remember which podcast or book or who
Speaker 2: said it. Now, I think you might have been doctor
Speaker 2: Daniel Aim and for some reason, he's hopping into my
Speaker 2: head what went well today? And it's a version of
Speaker 2: gratitude practice, but without without calling it that, and it
Speaker 2: was just it was beautiful because it was it was
Speaker 2: like sneaky gratitude. It wasn't looking for hunting for it.
Speaker 2: It was like, you know what, like you don't even
Speaker 2: have to feel thankful, just what went well. And for
Speaker 2: me it was it was a double whemmy because it
Speaker 2: highlighted productivity when we're so prone to focus on all
Speaker 2: the things we didn't do. Yeah, I'm so behind, I'm
Speaker 2: so behind, and that's I would write some of the things.
Speaker 2: I'm like, shit, I did all that that I'm grateful for,
Speaker 2: and look at all this fun stuff that tumbled out
Speaker 2: of my head as well.
Speaker 3: It's amazing, awesome, that's a great practice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what else have you got that I can?
Speaker 3: I mentioned cycling. You know, I call it your thing.
Speaker 3: So whatever your thing is. You know, I've got a
Speaker 3: friend who it's building model airplanes. You know, it can
Speaker 3: be golf, it can be near dancing, and you know,
Speaker 3: I say to people, look, if you don't know what
Speaker 3: it is like, just be curious and you know, go
Speaker 3: out and try new things because when you find it,
Speaker 3: if it was your cubs so beautifully, you know, I
Speaker 3: say to people, you know you'll recognize it when you know,
Speaker 3: like five hours will feel like fifteen minutes doing it
Speaker 3: because you're so in the zone. You know, you lose
Speaker 3: you lose that sort of concept of time because you're
Speaker 3: just loving what you're doing. But afterwards you feel energized.
Speaker 3: You know, you feel good. It makes you feel joyful.
Speaker 3: So cycling is a big one for me. So back
Speaker 3: when I have my mental health crisis, I had stopped cycling.
Speaker 3: As I said, I had a two year old and
Speaker 3: it took me seven years to get back on the bike.
Speaker 3: And a coach saying to me, wow, you light up
Speaker 3: when you do that, Like, why aren't you doing it?
Speaker 3: And I said, well, because I've got this little child,
Speaker 3: and you know, it's really hard. My partner starts work
Speaker 3: at he leaves for work at twenty past five, you know,
Speaker 3: five six days a week actually, and he was like,
Speaker 3: you need to find a way, and so I did.
Speaker 3: I asked my mother in lawa if my son could
Speaker 3: sleep over one night a week so I could get
Speaker 3: off and cycle on Friday mornings. And he did that
Speaker 3: for a couple of years. Nowadays, he's just about to
Speaker 3: turn fifteen, so I can leave him at home by himself.
Speaker 3: But I still cycle. You know, I've been back on
Speaker 3: it sort of seven or eight years and I can't
Speaker 3: give it up. But even when I had that crisis
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, I didn't stop cycling. I
Speaker 3: stopped riding with my usual group because I got sick
Speaker 3: of everyone saying, gee, John, know what's wrong. You're not yourself.
Speaker 3: We're so used to laughing the whole ride, and I
Speaker 3: was a bit like, oh, I just don't want to
Speaker 3: talk about what's happening, and so I just rode by myself.
Speaker 3: I went and rode up Mount Kuther a little so
Speaker 3: the hill. We got here, you know, on Sundays by myself,
Speaker 3: you know, And then I shared with a friend what
Speaker 3: was going on, and her and I rode while she
Speaker 3: was sort of trying to get back into cycling. And so, yeah, look,
Speaker 3: whatever their thing is, whatever your thing is, but we
Speaker 3: must have a thing. And I think it can be
Speaker 3: useful to think back to childhood too, what brought you
Speaker 3: joy as a little person, you know what, because I
Speaker 3: think it can give us some real clues. You know,
Speaker 3: maybe it was maybe it was bike riding, you know,
Speaker 3: maybe it was doing some rowing at school, or you know,
Speaker 3: all sorts of different activities. It's about reconnecting with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I reckon also doing the thing, about doing things
Speaker 2: that are not my usual thing, like doing things unlike me.
Speaker 2: Once upon a time, boxing was not me, wasn't the
Speaker 2: thing I did, and then it become my greatest love.
Speaker 2: This year, I bought a digital piano. I was like,
Speaker 2: what's something that I can spend my time doing that's
Speaker 2: hard to learn, that takes dedication, that gives me mindfulness
Speaker 2: and creativity, but is nothing like me or any of
Speaker 2: the people that I'm hanging out with. And I was like,
Speaker 2: fucking yeah, one of those awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you find pieces of yourself. I think we
Speaker 2: developed identities that are just a facad. I went to
Speaker 2: India last year and I couldn't wait to see who
Speaker 2: was underneath all of the parts of me that were
Speaker 2: just consumed by Tiff the boxer, Tiff the podcast, a
Speaker 2: tip in the gym, the gym chick, the fit chick,
Speaker 2: the chick that's always in a muscle tea. It was like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to be in a muscle tea with
Speaker 2: roll with the punch is written on it. I want
Speaker 2: to be on a mountain with people that are that
Speaker 2: are not like the people I hang out with every
Speaker 2: day and see who I am underneath all that, because
Speaker 2: I'm someone different and all those other parts and me
Speaker 2: got left behind somewhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, And that really is getting
Speaker 3: into your anu layers tips. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I remember being in that space and having the epiphany
Speaker 2: that's like, I've only been a boxer for ten of
Speaker 2: my forty two years or twelve of my forty two
Speaker 2: years or whatever it is now. Yeah, and I've only
Speaker 2: been a podcaster for five of them, so that's like
Speaker 2: thirty over thirty five or thirty eight or whatever the
Speaker 2: years that I wasn't that yet. I cling to these
Speaker 2: things with white knuckles, like, well, this is who I am. No,
Speaker 2: that's who you've shown the world you are, that's who
Speaker 2: that's who they reflect back to you. But who actually
Speaker 2: are you? There's so much more like you could be
Speaker 2: anyone anywhere.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I was in a career coaching workshop years ago
Speaker 3: and the facilitator of that program, he's quite well known
Speaker 3: in like sort of career coaching academically and practically, and
Speaker 3: he said, he asked us, did we think we knew ourselves?
Speaker 3: And we had to put up a hand if we
Speaker 3: think thought we did, and I put my hand up.
Speaker 3: This would have been probably twelve years ago, and he
Speaker 3: really challenged us on it, and it made sense, like
Speaker 3: he's like, you haven't been in every situation in life
Speaker 3: to know how you would respond to different circumstances. And
Speaker 3: it really does make sense. You know, we think we
Speaker 3: know each other, but we haven't lost a child, you know,
Speaker 3: touch woods, you know we haven't. We haven't been in
Speaker 3: some circumstances, many circumstances, you know that we would never
Speaker 3: know how we would respond to those situations. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it makes so much sense to me and what you're saying.
Speaker 2: It's one of the things I loved about that, especially
Speaker 2: that first one. That experience in the boxing ring is
Speaker 2: I met a version of me that I never knew existed.
Speaker 2: You can't pretend, you can't pretend in that situation. You
Speaker 2: just respond and then you're left with the reality, not
Speaker 2: the story. And I've told stories for years. Oh look
Speaker 2: at the fucking story. Like, we have emotions and then
Speaker 2: we act on them, and then we tell the most
Speaker 2: comfortable version of story that fits that that we can
Speaker 2: sit with. And it's like, Nope, in the ring, you
Speaker 2: a punch comes at your face and you either punch
Speaker 2: back or you cower, and that it's one to the other.
Speaker 2: And there's no telling a bloody story because everyone can
Speaker 2: see it, and so you have to and then if
Speaker 2: you want to change it or you've got a lot
Speaker 2: of work to do, you've got a lot of and
Speaker 2: you've got to walk in and do that work in
Speaker 2: the hard place. Yeah, like it's bloody awesome. I love it.
Speaker 2: I miss it. I miss I miss daily punches in
Speaker 2: the face.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I's still be a massive Muhammad Ali fan.
Speaker 3: When I was a kid, I just loved him so much,
Speaker 3: and my dad used to get us to like wrestle
Speaker 3: and box each other, my younger sister and I. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm surprised, surprised that I didn't pursue a career in boxing,
Speaker 3: because yeah, I've always been quite physical. But as an
Speaker 3: adult now, I I've really reflected on the fact that
Speaker 3: I actually think that I was like emotionally, like quite immature.
Speaker 3: I had no ability to express myself except physically, so
Speaker 3: I would punch boys and I never punched girls. I
Speaker 3: would only ever punch boys. But yeah, I was very
Speaker 3: physical except for my sister and my dad had us
Speaker 3: in the boxing room, right, but he used to make
Speaker 3: me get down on my knees because she was shorter
Speaker 3: than me. But then when I was on my knees,
Speaker 3: it was this, it was like the opposite.
Speaker 1: She was.
Speaker 3: Carrying the same height difference but reversed and I was disadvantaged.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think, you know, for some people without
Speaker 3: like you know, that ability to express you know, we
Speaker 3: can have some dysfunctional ways of doing that. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm not I don't punch people now, but even as
Speaker 3: like an eighteen year old and stuff. If I was
Speaker 3: talking to a guy and he said something, I would often,
Speaker 3: you know, just swing a hand at them or whatever.
Speaker 3: So yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a beautiful sport and it's one of my
Speaker 2: favorite things is introducing women to it that have never
Speaker 2: done anything remotely physical like that with their body, and
Speaker 2: you teach them the technique behind throwing a punch, so
Speaker 2: they end up so fully in their body right. It's
Speaker 2: you get an awareness on how you're where, you're feeling
Speaker 2: things and feeling your body in a different way, and
Speaker 2: then you're using it to exert power and it's visceral
Speaker 2: like you. I can see the emotion come over them
Speaker 2: and it's the best ever because I know it because
Speaker 2: I because.
Speaker 3: I lived it.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, you've never done this before, You've never
Speaker 2: had you never knew your body could do this and
Speaker 2: that you were allowed to, and you've probably never tapped
Speaker 2: in and felt what it's like to be and your
Speaker 2: body like that. So good, get in the ring, sister.
Speaker 3: Well, you know how I said I had the seven
Speaker 3: years off cycling. I did a boxing class for that
Speaker 3: seven years. It was like a boxing circuit class. We
Speaker 3: went each other. There's pads, and stuff. But I loved it.
Speaker 3: And the only reason I stopped was because it was
Speaker 3: a Saturday morning class and I cycle on Sundays, and
Speaker 3: I found it was like wasting my legs, wrecking my legs.
Speaker 3: I was like, all right, I've got priorities here, right,
Speaker 3: We've still got a bit of leg work back then.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so good.
Speaker 3: Well, you know what you were just saying about that
Speaker 3: being in your body. You know that so many of
Speaker 3: us struggle to me and our bodies, So you know,
Speaker 3: that's really amazing to hear that. That's you know, it
Speaker 3: comes with that experience. So yeah, yeah, Colas could use
Speaker 3: more of that in our lives.
Speaker 2: Yeah. For me, I feel that looking back it it
Speaker 2: brought me into my boy and it invited me to
Speaker 2: feel first physically and then beneath that came up a
Speaker 2: bunch of emotion and then took me back into childhood
Speaker 2: ship that I thought i'd safely tucked away. And I
Speaker 2: was like, what's we left that behind? Like, that's a
Speaker 2: that's in a box that says do not open in
Speaker 2: the back of my mind. And you know, that's when
Speaker 2: I realized, you can't just you can't. Can't you can't
Speaker 2: hold silence and shame inside of you and just move
Speaker 2: on from it. You have to process it. And Boxing
Speaker 2: asked me to do that and it was beautiful.
Speaker 3: What a gift.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Love's amazing. That's amazing. What's next for you, Donna?
Speaker 3: Ah, yeah, great question. Well right now, I'm in the
Speaker 3: midst of organizing a fundraising comedy event, so yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: excited about that. I've on a few men's mental health
Speaker 3: events and raise money for mental health charities. I'm an
Speaker 3: IOKA ambassador, so I love to raise money for them.
Speaker 3: But yeah, this year, I decided to sign up for
Speaker 3: the Coast Trip Walk, So I'm just doing the thirty
Speaker 3: k's of the Sunny Coast Walk and part of that
Speaker 3: is to take on some fundraising and I really like
Speaker 3: the idea of giving people an experience rather than just
Speaker 3: asking people to donate money, and so I'm very excited
Speaker 3: about it. It's going to be on the fourth of
Speaker 3: July this year, and we our MC is a gentleman
Speaker 3: called called Mark mcconvill, who is, I believe Australia is
Speaker 3: only a professional comedian with a master's in suicideology. So
Speaker 3: I'm very excited about having Mark with us. Oh wow, Yeah,
Speaker 3: a mutual friend introduced us. It turned out that we
Speaker 3: had been at A and Sidon had been I'd spoken
Speaker 3: at so I think we were always meant to connect.
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's going to be so cool. So we
Speaker 3: got Mark plus three comedians and yeah, that's gonna be
Speaker 3: a hoot. So yeah, in the throes of organizing that,
Speaker 3: and you know what I said about the you know,
Speaker 3: challenges of business, and you know, earlier this year, I
Speaker 3: had a few things fall over in the business, like
Speaker 3: work that I thought was locked in, and you know,
Speaker 3: various things happened, and so it ended up being quieter,
Speaker 3: and I was in financial distress a little bit again,
Speaker 3: and financial distress is one of my triggers. And so
Speaker 3: I was actually really I was really happy with myself
Speaker 3: that even though I had these challenges. I remember saying
Speaker 3: to a couple of friends, like, I actually feel pretty good,
Speaker 3: which is really interesting because you know, I probably you know,
Speaker 3: could easily be panicking or worrying right now because it's
Speaker 3: often quite well. It's generally quiet for me over December
Speaker 3: and January because I work in the corporate market and
Speaker 3: people don't train people at that time of the year.
Speaker 3: And so you really have to have work in the
Speaker 3: pipeline in the new year, and I thought I had
Speaker 3: some and then that didn't happen. So you know, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, I've gone twelve weeks with very little income,
Speaker 3: and so that was really quite challenging. But yeah, I actually,
Speaker 3: you know, sort of put a few things in place
Speaker 3: and feeling really good now and you know, just about
Speaker 3: to find out if we've been successful getting onto a
Speaker 3: government panel for well being services. So and even if
Speaker 3: we don't get onto that, I'm actually really proud of
Speaker 3: having made it this far because I know that we're
Speaker 3: really really close, and it really just highlights that whole
Speaker 3: you don't know what's around the corner, and you know
Speaker 3: you mentioned earlier it might not be great what's around
Speaker 3: the corner, but it can be equally just freaking fantastic too,
Speaker 3: And you never know that unless you're hanging there and
Speaker 3: see what's going to unfold, and it's that whole you know,
Speaker 3: nothing's permanent, and so yeah, hoping we'll get onto this
Speaker 3: government panel, you know, looking forward to doing more work
Speaker 3: with organizations and my things training. I just love training people,
Speaker 3: and I really feel passionate about every astray and having
Speaker 3: the skill, the skills to recognize when they or somebody
Speaker 3: else is struggling and be able to navigate that, you know,
Speaker 3: navigate support, you know, whether it's for themselves or somebody else.
Speaker 3: You know, how do we I think that's the only
Speaker 3: way that we can really have a positive impact on
Speaker 3: mental health and suicide rates in this country is by
Speaker 3: help by developing these skills in our community.
Speaker 2: How can we find you? Follow you and get involved?
Speaker 3: Oh amazing? So linked it. People can search for me
Speaker 3: on LinkedIn. I've got a website mentally Wealthy, which is
Speaker 3: a bit of a play on words w ebl thy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then yeah, I'm on Facebook as well, just in
Speaker 3: my own name again. Yeah, so I regularly post on LinkedIn.
Speaker 3: I run public mental health THEIRTH day courses. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm all about that, you know, imparting these skills on people.
Speaker 3: I work with organizations to help create mentally healthier workplaces
Speaker 3: and you know, a big part of that is training
Speaker 3: as potential solutions, but also looking at the bigger picture too,
Speaker 3: because we can't just give people, you know, resilient skills
Speaker 3: and then you know, just throw shit at them. And
Speaker 3: you've got to look at the whole system of what's
Speaker 3: going on too, right, So I don't think resilience is
Speaker 3: the responsibility of an individual in the organization. I think
Speaker 3: there's a joint responsibility. You know, it's a the organization
Speaker 3: doing their part as well making sure that they're creating
Speaker 3: a safe environment for their people.
Speaker 2: I love this chat. Thanks he.
Speaker 3: My pleasure. Tiff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I love what you're doing. I love what
Speaker 2: you share, and I think your really important voice in
Speaker 2: this space. So very my finger is a firmly crossed
Speaker 2: for the government than canel. I hope you find yourself
Speaker 2: on there. But whatever happens, I know that you're going
Speaker 2: to make a difference, So keep on doing what you're doing. Donna,
Speaker 2: thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thanks a lot. TIF take care. If you or anyone
Speaker 3: you know it is struggling, please reach out to Lifeline
Speaker 3: on thirteen eleven fourteen, or speak to somebody in your life.
Speaker 2: She said, it's now and never.
Speaker 1: I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2: Got a trip aquit the coast Garter to
Speaker 3: You the girls s got a lot of coast guard
Speaker 3: to