WEBVTT - The MAGA billionaires taking over TikTok

0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:09.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am. TikTok

0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:13.000
<v Speaker 1>is the most influential media platform for Australians under the

0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.040
<v Speaker 1>age of twenty five. It's where millions get their news,

0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.520
<v Speaker 1>whether they realize it or not. But TikTok is no

0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.040
<v Speaker 1>longer just a cultural force. A trumpelined group of investors

0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.840
<v Speaker 1>has taken over its American operations, aimed at keeping China

0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.840
<v Speaker 1>at arm's length. Now users a claiming that content about

0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.440
<v Speaker 1>ICE and its operations in Minnesota, where two American civilians

0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.680
<v Speaker 1>were killed by federal agents, has been difficult to post,

0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:42.320
<v Speaker 1>disappearing from the algorithm or reaching far fewer people than expected.

0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.520
<v Speaker 1>TikTok has denied political censorship, saying the platform was experiencing

0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.479
<v Speaker 1>technical disruption at the time. But it's raised the question

0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.199
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to TikTok, who gets to decide what

0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Americans see and what gets buried. Today, we're bringing you

0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.640
<v Speaker 1>an episode from last year with associate editor at Kraki

0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:10.800
<v Speaker 1>Cam Wilson, on the trumpification of TikTok. It's Sunday, February eight.

0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:19.000
<v Speaker 1>This episode was originally published in October of twenty twenty five. Cam,

0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.600
<v Speaker 1>is there a particular type of news or topic that

0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.640
<v Speaker 1>travels best on TikTok or does that really depend on

0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:26.080
<v Speaker 1>the user's own personal feed.

0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Users have very very personalized feeds, and so every person's

0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.440
<v Speaker 2>feed is very different. But the stuff that tends to

0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.480
<v Speaker 2>break through are those kind of monoculture events, and those

0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:42.440
<v Speaker 2>kinds of events are increasingly rare, but you know, things

0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.920
<v Speaker 2>like the Charlie Kirk assassination. But it's also subject to

0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.520
<v Speaker 2>the dynamics that affects many other things on social media

0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.960
<v Speaker 2>on the Internet, which is, if something is video, it's

0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:52.600
<v Speaker 2>going to go better on TikTok because you need the

0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:57.160
<v Speaker 2>footage actually see something. And also things that encourage reactions,

0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:01.600
<v Speaker 2>people responding conflict. Those are the kinds of things that

0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.120
<v Speaker 2>are more likely to bubble through. You know what's about them,

0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.519
<v Speaker 2>maybe nitty gritty of policy details and more about the fights,

0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.560
<v Speaker 2>the thing that is dividing people. That is the stuff

0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.200
<v Speaker 2>that naturally bubbles to the top, purely because of the

0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.680
<v Speaker 2>way that these platforms like TikTok work, And.

0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:19.400
<v Speaker 1>What about the design of TikTok itself, how has that

0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.000
<v Speaker 1>influenced and changed the way other social media platforms work.

0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean TikTok's will lad this trend that's taken

0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.200
<v Speaker 2>over social media. I think it's pretty fair to say

0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.000
<v Speaker 2>we are in a post social media world. The idea

0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.600
<v Speaker 2>of Facebook connecting you to your friend, your family, your

0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:40.520
<v Speaker 2>local community, the people who you know is kind of over,

0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.959
<v Speaker 2>I think. Like in fact, so TikTok kind of led

0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.520
<v Speaker 2>this new era of what it means to have social content,

0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.880
<v Speaker 2>and it said, we don't really care that much about

0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.240
<v Speaker 2>who you say you were for. We're going to use

0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:57.120
<v Speaker 2>these other signals to determine what to show you because

0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.480
<v Speaker 2>we actually think it's more engaging. We know you say

0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:00.800
<v Speaker 2>that you want, but when we give you the stuff

0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.519
<v Speaker 2>that you really want that we think will interest you.

0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:05.720
<v Speaker 1>And so now there's a battle layer of the future

0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.239
<v Speaker 1>of TikTok as a company, and it's framed as a

0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.480
<v Speaker 1>battle between Washington and China over TikTok being a national

0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.679
<v Speaker 1>security threat. So sit us down and tell us where

0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:16.560
<v Speaker 1>this battle begins.

0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it really throughout its whole history, as

0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:24.359
<v Speaker 2>soon as it became clearly an ascendent major platform, it

0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:28.280
<v Speaker 2>has faced scrutiny and criticism because of its link to

0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.880
<v Speaker 2>the Chinese Communist Party, and particularly in the US with

0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.760
<v Speaker 2>I think one hundred and seventy million users now in

0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.720
<v Speaker 2>the US, so an astronomical amount. It faced scrutiny on

0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.360
<v Speaker 2>two areas. The first one is this idea of data

0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.320
<v Speaker 2>that it's collecting from accusers, so you know, whenever you

0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:49.280
<v Speaker 2>look on your locasion other information about your device, that

0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.360
<v Speaker 2>is going to TikTok, that's going to buy dance, and

0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.000
<v Speaker 2>the kind of accusation has always been that it's going

0:03:56.040 --> 0:04:01.280
<v Speaker 2>to the Chinese Communist Party. Scond thing is this idea

0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.760
<v Speaker 2>of it as a propaganda too, And if you consider it,

0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:06.840
<v Speaker 2>like you know, the eight million austrains one hundred and

0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.520
<v Speaker 2>seventy million US users, this app has a director line

0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:16.159
<v Speaker 2>into all their lives and it is able to show

0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.640
<v Speaker 2>them content that is actually failure paid to anyone else,

0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.880
<v Speaker 2>like all that feels in distinct to be different. It's

0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:23.600
<v Speaker 2>very hard to know from the outside. It's not like

0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:25.600
<v Speaker 2>television with you to tuting and see whatever and else

0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:27.800
<v Speaker 2>is watching, or check the TV guide or whatever. And

0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.800
<v Speaker 2>there's always been this idea that the rules that the

0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.840
<v Speaker 2>platform makes could be used full of various purposes. And

0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.680
<v Speaker 2>so this idea that it represents a threat to national

0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.240
<v Speaker 2>security because there could be people leaning on people and

0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.400
<v Speaker 2>buydowance to encourage certain content to be shown to users, like,

0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.800
<v Speaker 2>for example, content critical of their governments, or that it

0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.720
<v Speaker 2>could be used to censor content that was critical of

0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:51.600
<v Speaker 2>the Chinese government.

0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:52.080
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.279
<v Speaker 2>Viewing it not just as a kind of data extraction

0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.840
<v Speaker 2>operation potentially, but also something that could be used to

0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.320
<v Speaker 2>push certain messages with very little scrutiny has made all

0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:03.560
<v Speaker 2>of people uneasy about it.

0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.760
<v Speaker 1>And so what has the US government done about that?

0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:14.200
<v Speaker 2>The history of TikTok and US Congress goes back to

0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty when there was a review into TikTok by

0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.640
<v Speaker 2>the American government about the idea of it being a

0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:24.720
<v Speaker 2>potential national security threat, saying that either TikTok has to

0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.680
<v Speaker 2>divest and pass over its ownership to American owners or

0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.080
<v Speaker 2>will ban it. And the result of that was that

0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.480
<v Speaker 2>TikTok signed this very bizarre deal with Oracle, which is

0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:40.560
<v Speaker 2>own and run by Larry Ellison, the Trump BELLI yeah exactly,

0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.800
<v Speaker 2>and Oracle would host American TikTok user data in America

0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:50.719
<v Speaker 2>and also have some kind of oversight role into its algorithm,

0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.520
<v Speaker 2>its secret source. It didn't really address the underlying concerns.

0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, data that's physically album in America can still

0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.320
<v Speaker 2>be accessed in China, as it turns out was the

0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.240
<v Speaker 2>case when by Dance reportedly access the data of a

0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:06.400
<v Speaker 2>American journalist.

0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:11.719
<v Speaker 4>Byte Dance, TikTok's parent has acknowledged four employees inappropriately obtained

0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.960
<v Speaker 4>data of some US TikTok users, including two journalists. In

0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.960
<v Speaker 4>a statement, the company condemned the actions of those involved

0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.160
<v Speaker 4>and said they're no longer employed, but that's no reassurance

0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:22.680
<v Speaker 4>the mind.

0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:27.640
<v Speaker 2>And then this ambient concern over TikTok continued through the

0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Biden presidency until it was credited that the October seventh

0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:40.120
<v Speaker 2>attack revitalized interest in TikTok. From Congress was the accusation

0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.280
<v Speaker 2>that the content that was being shown to TikTok users

0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.520
<v Speaker 2>was leading to a rise in pro Palestinian sympathy in

0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:48.719
<v Speaker 2>young Americans.

0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:54.920
<v Speaker 5>Every thirty minutes that someone watches TikTok every day, they

0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:59.600
<v Speaker 5>become seventeen percent more anti Semitic, more pro hamask Based

0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.120
<v Speaker 5>on to that, we now know that fifty percent of

0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:08.120
<v Speaker 5>adult eighteen to twenty five, I think that Hamas was warranted,

0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.240
<v Speaker 5>and what they did with Israel that's a problem.

0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Whether that's true, I think is far from proven. I

0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.640
<v Speaker 2>don't think that we've ever seen really conclusive evidence that.

0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.440
<v Speaker 2>For example, you know that there was a company directive

0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.920
<v Speaker 2>to promote certain points of views about the Israel Gaza conflict.

0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:32.080
<v Speaker 2>But regardless, this fervor led to the bipartisan support for

0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.680
<v Speaker 2>the bill. The bill pass that TikTok needed to be

0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.600
<v Speaker 2>under American ownership or face a ban by January nineteen,

0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:44.240
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five. Coincidentally, the day before Donald Trump was

0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.280
<v Speaker 2>sworn in, and when Trump came in, he delayed the

0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.440
<v Speaker 2>ban a number of times until recently the final deal

0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.720
<v Speaker 2>that was carried out by the Trump administration.

0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:08.520
<v Speaker 1>After the break Trump talk so cam last year, the

0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.120
<v Speaker 1>US Congress passed a law that said foreign adverse recontrolled

0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.960
<v Speaker 1>apps like TikTok need to divest or be banned. And

0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.320
<v Speaker 1>now Donald Trump assigned an executive order that would pave

0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.800
<v Speaker 1>the way for an American run version of TikTok.

0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.600
<v Speaker 3>Next, sir, we have an executive order on TikTok. From

0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.160
<v Speaker 3>the first days of your administration. You've charged a team

0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:31.520
<v Speaker 3>from your administration, led by Vice President Vance, with ensuring

0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.480
<v Speaker 3>that we can preserve TikTok as a platform for one

0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.480
<v Speaker 3>hundred and seventy million Americans who use it while ensuring

0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.400
<v Speaker 3>that their data is properly protected as required by law

0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:41.720
<v Speaker 3>with this executive or.

0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.400
<v Speaker 1>So, can you just explain what this executive order sets out?

0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we are now close to the year of

0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:53.679
<v Speaker 2>trup talk where there is an American owned entity that

0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:59.480
<v Speaker 2>will license a version of TikTok's algorithm, you.

0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.880
<v Speaker 6>Know, run by American investors and American companies, great ones.

0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.160
<v Speaker 7>Great investors are the biggest. You don't get bigger, I

0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:07.880
<v Speaker 7>don't imagine.

0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.640
<v Speaker 2>And maybe and there has also been discussions about retraining

0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:16.520
<v Speaker 2>or you know, essentially fiddling around it and having its

0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.840
<v Speaker 2>own twist on that algorithm. So that recipe that's deciding

0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.760
<v Speaker 2>what to show uses. But from what we know about it,

0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.559
<v Speaker 2>by dance, the company that has owned TikTok until recently

0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.079
<v Speaker 2>will now be a minor owner in a US entity

0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.840
<v Speaker 2>that will control the US operations. The major owners are

0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Oracle that I mentioned before, which is run by a

0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.240
<v Speaker 2>very close Trump ally who's been involved before, but now

0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:41.439
<v Speaker 2>his role has grown in it.

0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:43.719
<v Speaker 7>You'll see a list have you seen a list yet

0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.400
<v Speaker 7>of the people, Well, you've been reading about that, it's

0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:52.120
<v Speaker 7>I know, Michael Dell's involved, and Rupert Murdocks involved, and

0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:57.000
<v Speaker 7>a lot of and let's say we have probably four

0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.959
<v Speaker 7>or five absolutely worldless and that's just that love the

0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:03.880
<v Speaker 7>country and they made a lot of money with the country.

0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:08.800
<v Speaker 2>And so these are a group of all Trump aligned

0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.920
<v Speaker 2>figures who are, you know, very rich people who involve

0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.439
<v Speaker 2>in a whole bunch of other things, who now have

0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.000
<v Speaker 2>some kind of control over TikTok. We just really don't

0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.400
<v Speaker 2>exactly understand how it works, but it's fair to say

0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.679
<v Speaker 2>that they will have some kind of influence over how

0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.360
<v Speaker 2>TikTok works in America for American users.

0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.640
<v Speaker 1>So we're saying a shift from a Chinese government aligned

0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.199
<v Speaker 1>ownership to a Trump aligned ownership. What do you think

0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:36.959
<v Speaker 1>that will mean for the type of news that we

0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:38.559
<v Speaker 1>see on TikTok from now on.

0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:40.719
<v Speaker 2>I think that we should expect it to change in

0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.319
<v Speaker 2>some way, and I don't know how. When Trump was

0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:47.760
<v Speaker 2>signing the executive order, he joked about it being onega content,

0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:48.600
<v Speaker 2>was his line.

0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:50.560
<v Speaker 7>I always liked MAGA related.

0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.520
<v Speaker 6>If I could make it one hundred percent MAGA related,

0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.960
<v Speaker 6>it's actually a good question, but I would, Yeah, if

0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.679
<v Speaker 6>I could make it one hundred percent, I would, but

0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:02.240
<v Speaker 6>it's not going to work out that way.

0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:02.840
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately.

0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.840
<v Speaker 7>Now everyone's going to be treated fairly every group.

0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:11.800
<v Speaker 2>We have seen that Trump has shepherded various traditional media

0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:16.960
<v Speaker 2>properties to his allies, including Larry Elson's son, who recently

0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:22.319
<v Speaker 2>bought Skydance, which is a big media company that has

0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.720
<v Speaker 2>recently merged with Paramount and owns a lot of popular

0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:32.200
<v Speaker 2>American media properties, including NBC News. They're also apparently looking

0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.880
<v Speaker 2>to buy Warner Brothers, so there was an enormous amount

0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:40.240
<v Speaker 2>of cultural reach and popular properties that it currently owns

0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:44.360
<v Speaker 2>and potentially could own, And David Elson has expressed that

0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:48.079
<v Speaker 2>he would like to rejig NBC News to represent a

0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.360
<v Speaker 2>more conservative point of view. He's a very strong pro

0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.640
<v Speaker 2>Israel advocate, and it's believed that he'd like to see

0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.079
<v Speaker 2>that opinion reflected in the properties that he owns as well.

0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.800
<v Speaker 2>So it wouldn't be crazy to imagine that that same

0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.280
<v Speaker 2>thing would happen with TikTok. We're seeing, you know, all

0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.920
<v Speaker 2>of these very very powerful companies that have a lot

0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.439
<v Speaker 2>of cultural influence being shepherded into the hands of people

0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.199
<v Speaker 2>who are closely aligned with Trump. So it is I

0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.000
<v Speaker 2>think a pretty significant change in an environment that was

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.199
<v Speaker 2>already pretty homogeneous in terms of its ownership. The few holdouts,

0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.920
<v Speaker 2>it seems like, are now being shepherded away and the

0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.160
<v Speaker 2>keys of the kingdom are being handed over to the

0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:29.080
<v Speaker 2>friends with the king.

0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.920
<v Speaker 1>And cam It seems like maybe the next generation would

0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.800
<v Speaker 1>escape the influence of the Murdoch Empire. In the past,

0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.480
<v Speaker 1>they've been notoriously bad at speaking to younger audiences, remember

0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.199
<v Speaker 1>the MySpace moment, of course, yes, But in getting a

0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.800
<v Speaker 1>stake in TikTok, is there a sign their influence over

0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:50.640
<v Speaker 1>the next generation will actually increase?

0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, so I think you know. One of

0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.559
<v Speaker 2>the great strengths of news corp in particularly Australia in

0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.559
<v Speaker 2>the US as well is the way that it is

0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:01.960
<v Speaker 2>able to use its influence for its own corporate interests.

0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.440
<v Speaker 2>So wouldn't surprise you that if they got their hands

0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.640
<v Speaker 2>on some kind of control over a social media platform

0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.760
<v Speaker 2>that so far they've not really had any control over,

0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.240
<v Speaker 2>that they use it to promote themselves, promote their other properties,

0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.720
<v Speaker 2>promote their ideological views. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.559
<v Speaker 2>That being said, the reason they're cautious is that one

0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:22.480
<v Speaker 2>as far as I know, they're not a major owner.

0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.320
<v Speaker 2>The second thing is that there are a whole bunch

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.080
<v Speaker 2>of owners, and I think that you know, while people

0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.959
<v Speaker 2>like political influence, they also have brought in because it's

0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.839
<v Speaker 2>a money making operation as well. Anything that could threaten

0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 2>the popularity of it, would, you know, not just affect

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.040
<v Speaker 2>the Murdocks, but also other people as well. I understand

0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 2>why people are alarmed, but I think that there is

0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 2>a balance of these owners of this new Trump talk

0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:51.040
<v Speaker 2>what aboutance Like, of course they want to if further

0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 2>they're ideological mission. We've seen that, I think with many

0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.280
<v Speaker 2>of their owners, but they're also business people who've brought

0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.600
<v Speaker 2>into something that could make them a lot of money.

0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:01.400
<v Speaker 2>And like you know, at the end of the day,

0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.120
<v Speaker 2>it's sometimes it's hard with all the business leaders who

0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 2>are expressing fuelty to the Trump administration, tata exactly know

0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:12.600
<v Speaker 2>whether that is from the heart or from the bottom line.

0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it's worth paying attention considering how those goals

0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:17.280
<v Speaker 2>might influence each other.

0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Follow the money, follow the money, follow the feed and

0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.080
<v Speaker 1>the money. Thanks so much for your time, Cam, Thank you,

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.600
<v Speaker 1>thanks for listening to seven AM. We'll be back tomorrow

0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.200
<v Speaker 1>with a new episode first Thing in the morning on

0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:46.000
<v Speaker 1>the billionaires, big companies and secret dark money donors who

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 1>are influencing our pulleys and our elections. Plus a billionaire

0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.840
<v Speaker 1>Clive Palmer could be both part of the problem and

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.440
<v Speaker 1>the solution to our political donation problem.

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Elections must be fair.

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.400
<v Speaker 3>We don't want, as I said Wagers as politician.

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Enjoy our representatives in Parliament.

0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 2>We want a fair and a true democracy.

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.720
<v Speaker 1>We don't want a rigged election. And I hope in

0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 1>this the legal challenge to the High Court will be

0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 1>in a position where all.

0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.920
<v Speaker 2>People can stands for Parliament on a free, fair basis.

0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:14.360
<v Speaker 1>By for now,