WEBVTT - Predators lurking in plain sight: Kristi McVee Pt.2

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<v Speaker 1>The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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<v Speaker 1>Detective sy aside of life the average person is never

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<v Speaker 1>exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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<v Speaker 1>For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I did for a living. I was a

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<v Speaker 1>homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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<v Speaker 1>The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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<v Speaker 1>from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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<v Speaker 1>and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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<v Speaker 1>no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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<v Speaker 1>Join me now as I take you into this world.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Part two of my chat with Christy McVie.

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<v Speaker 1>Christy is a retired Western Australian police detective who is

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<v Speaker 1>an author and an expert in child sexual abuse. In

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<v Speaker 1>part one, we spoke about educating parents and adults responsible

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<v Speaker 1>for looking after children that look out for sexual predadice,

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<v Speaker 1>and also how to educate children even from an early age.

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<v Speaker 1>And I learned something there Chrissy about that it can

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<v Speaker 1>start when they're two years old, and just the language

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<v Speaker 1>that you use. When we move on to now that

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<v Speaker 1>we're in that part two, what are the type of

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<v Speaker 1>behaviors we're going to look out for for these people

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<v Speaker 1>that pray on children.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so a lot of the time, like we mentioned,

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<v Speaker 2>they'll be seeking out vulnerable children, but vulnerable parents equals

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<v Speaker 2>vulnerable children. So it can be that they're grooming a

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<v Speaker 2>parent or an adult to trust them. And so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they gaslight or more so love bond people. So they're

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<v Speaker 2>really really friendly, Like they'll be full of compliments and stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>and they do that to the children as well, but

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<v Speaker 2>they might do that to the parents, and they'll become

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<v Speaker 2>friends with the parents and they'll create this relationship or

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<v Speaker 2>this friendship with the parent. And then as time goes on,

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<v Speaker 2>if it happens, if it happens slowly, and sometimes it

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<v Speaker 2>can happen really fast, if the person's really trusting, then

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<v Speaker 2>they will, you know, find ways to be alone with

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<v Speaker 2>the child. So, hey, let me take Johnny to go fishing.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you know, you've got a busy week, you're tired,

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<v Speaker 2>Like you know, hey, I'm going camping this weekend. You

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<v Speaker 2>want me to take the kids with me and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like that, and then and these this could be completely innocent,

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<v Speaker 2>but these are the ways that they get children alone.

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<v Speaker 2>So they're going to aim to get the child alone

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<v Speaker 2>in a way that they can groom the child or

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<v Speaker 2>to progress the abuse. And so, you know, some of

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<v Speaker 2>the behaviors I saw or heard was the adult would

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<v Speaker 2>stay up really late every night whilst everyone's asleep, and

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<v Speaker 2>then they were creeping into the child's room. They were

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<v Speaker 2>behind locked doors with children. So you know, I always

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<v Speaker 2>had a rule that there was no lock doors, no

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<v Speaker 2>closed doors in my house. And you know, they're behind

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<v Speaker 2>a door with a child, and you know, I've heard

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<v Speaker 2>victim survivors tell me that, you know, every time they

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<v Speaker 2>were abused, it was when mum was outside washing, like

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<v Speaker 2>hanging out the washing, and they would lock the door

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<v Speaker 2>and they'd be stuck or there was the perception that

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<v Speaker 2>they couldn't get out, the child couldn't get out. And

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<v Speaker 2>one of the other things that I wanted to mention about,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, every time I arrested a child sex offender,

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<v Speaker 2>they had massive pornography collections and I often get asked

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<v Speaker 2>the question, you know, what kind of porn do they watch? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>most people most I say, start off with normal everyday pornography,

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<v Speaker 2>but there is actually a sliding scale of how they

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<v Speaker 2>get down to child sexual abuse material and stuff. And

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<v Speaker 2>so start off with normal porn, then it gets more

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<v Speaker 2>violent or more sadistic. Then it goes into best reality

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<v Speaker 2>and then child exploitation material. But all of these predators

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<v Speaker 2>and pedophiles that I saw over the years, they all

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<v Speaker 2>had massive porn collections or some form of porn addiction,

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<v Speaker 2>and it just goes into that world and best Realities

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<v Speaker 2>comes before child abuse material. And the other thing about

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<v Speaker 2>the porn is that study I was telling you about

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<v Speaker 2>from the Institute of Criminology is that the people that

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<v Speaker 2>identified as abusing children and attracted to children had were

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<v Speaker 2>paying for porn, and they actually identified that they paid

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<v Speaker 2>for porn and they watched more violent beast reality porn

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<v Speaker 2>and child sexual abuse material. So that's a big indicator

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<v Speaker 2>as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and I see what you're saying as an indicator,

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<v Speaker 1>because we probably all know people that they're into their

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<v Speaker 1>porn or whatever. But that's yeah, that's an indicator that maybe.

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<v Speaker 2>Along with other things, but it would be something if

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<v Speaker 2>I was in a partnership or if I was with

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<v Speaker 2>someone that had a you know, was staying up late

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<v Speaker 2>watching lots of porn, you know, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of these you wouldn't be in a relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>Some people are, yeah, and you know, some of the

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<v Speaker 2>indicators that I hear from you know, victims parents or

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<v Speaker 2>like the non offending parent who you know was like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we had a normal sex life and everything seemed fine,

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<v Speaker 2>but then they were abusing one of the children. So

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's these are some of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>you see. And then if they're not in a relationship,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they're that person that spends all their time

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<v Speaker 2>with children. And I heard an FBI profilest basically say,

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<v Speaker 2>if someone wants to spend more time with your children

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<v Speaker 2>than you do, that's a red flag because children can

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<v Speaker 2>be annoying.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a good simple way of looking at it. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think a common sense approach you certainly it's a

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<v Speaker 1>red flag that you want to look at. What about

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<v Speaker 1>the manipulation the offenders do on your children, because that's

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<v Speaker 1>something you could be looking about for as well. How

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<v Speaker 1>do they manipulate the children.

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<v Speaker 2>Quite often they're playing their manipulation game in twofold, so

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<v Speaker 2>they're manipulating you. But they're manipulating the child. So with you,

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<v Speaker 2>they might be. And I'm thinking about a specific case

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<v Speaker 2>right now where the offender was grooming the child to abuse.

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<v Speaker 2>So was love bombing them, was you know, complementing them,

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<v Speaker 2>giving them gifts, taking them out on special treats, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>or constant constantly grooming that child. But with the adult,

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<v Speaker 2>they were basically creating this disconnect or this yeah, this

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<v Speaker 2>disconnect between the parent and the child. So in order

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<v Speaker 2>to get access to this child, look, let me take

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<v Speaker 2>this child under my wing. And you know, their behaviors

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<v Speaker 2>are out of control, and you know, like I can see,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, so they're like gas lighting the parent into

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<v Speaker 2>believing that this person's this savior for this child and

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<v Speaker 2>is going to help fix this child's behavior and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Never mind that the child's behavior is changing because they're

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<v Speaker 2>being abused. You know. One of the things that I

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<v Speaker 2>truly believe is behavior is another form of language. And

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<v Speaker 2>when children show change behavior or show behaviors that aren't

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<v Speaker 2>ideal or are concerning, then we need to ask what

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<v Speaker 2>is happening?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, little things like that, And it's a complex way

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<v Speaker 1>that they approach. It isn't like distancing the child from

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<v Speaker 1>the side of people, and I can just imagine using

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<v Speaker 1>the scenario of a single mother with children and oh,

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<v Speaker 1>your child, they just need the male role model. Let

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<v Speaker 1>me take them away for the weekend. And yeah, making

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<v Speaker 1>that offer to parents when the manipulation when they're exhausted.

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<v Speaker 1>Kids are hard. We all know that, like raising kids

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<v Speaker 1>are hard. You need a break, you've had a hell

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<v Speaker 1>of a week. Let me let me look after the

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<v Speaker 1>kids to either or I can babysit. But okay, they're

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<v Speaker 1>things again, it doesn't say conclusively that they're they're sex offenders,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're things to look out for. And we want

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<v Speaker 1>to be more aware, don't we. We don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>go through with blinkers on them. Think the world's a

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<v Speaker 1>lovely place and no bad happens.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well that's not that's not the way it is.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you come out with your statistics, statistics and that's yeah, well, okay, adolescents, Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>that's the brave new world that Yeah, it's a strange

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<v Speaker 1>world for all of us when we go through those

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<v Speaker 1>adolescent years. But what are the risk factors when we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about sexual predators or where adolescents can come unstuck

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<v Speaker 1>even with any nude selfies those type of things. What

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<v Speaker 1>do we got to look out and how can we

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<v Speaker 1>help adolescent children?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I guess the first thing that I want

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<v Speaker 2>to say is that when your child goes through adolescents,

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<v Speaker 2>they have like a basically they become aliens, don't they.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when my child hit around eleven, and I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>what the hell is going on with my child? Where's

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<v Speaker 2>my loving beautiful kid.

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<v Speaker 1>They disappear for about seven or eight years.

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<v Speaker 2>She's come back around already, but they do like they

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<v Speaker 2>have like a brain transplant overnight, and so that can

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<v Speaker 2>really take us out of like all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>the child that tells you everything's no longer telling you anything,

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<v Speaker 2>and you don't actually can't get along with them anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, my daughter just so happened. It was right

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<v Speaker 2>around the time she had this brain transplant, right around

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<v Speaker 2>the time that I was going through PTSD, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>leaving the police, and she stood me up in the

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<v Speaker 2>hallway one time, like she was so angry because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>she's got all of these homes. She stood me up

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<v Speaker 2>in the hallway we laugh about it now, and she

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<v Speaker 2>was like, I just want to punch you in the

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<v Speaker 2>face like and honestly, if you ever my daughter is

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<v Speaker 2>the most She's a firecracker, no doubt, but she but

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<v Speaker 2>she was so angry at me. This is the thing, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm being honest here because you know my daughter, I

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<v Speaker 2>wrote like a blog post about it. My daughter saw

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<v Speaker 2>porn at ten, right, and she you know, she was

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<v Speaker 2>taught about sex at eight by a friend at school.

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<v Speaker 2>And the thing is is that our kids are learning

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<v Speaker 2>something at such a progressive rate and some of us,

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<v Speaker 2>even myself at the time. And this is why I'm

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<v Speaker 2>being really honest, is that it's okay if you're stumbling

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<v Speaker 2>and you're going, I don't know what I'm doing here,

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<v Speaker 2>because I've done.

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<v Speaker 1>That, all right, Okay, Well that sets the setsus standard

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<v Speaker 1>that no one's perfect on.

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<v Speaker 2>The moment, no one is topic no one. And so

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<v Speaker 2>with regards to teens, one of the things that we

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<v Speaker 2>need to really be mindful is to keep that open

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<v Speaker 2>communication where we can, because I get teens contact me

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<v Speaker 2>and it's so stripped. It's so crazy that they and

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<v Speaker 2>reach out to me online. But it's because I talk

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<v Speaker 2>about sextortion and I talk about image based abuse on

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<v Speaker 2>TikTok and where the teens are and they contact me

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<v Speaker 2>and they're like, I've been sex storted. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what to do. And I always say, can you talk

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<v Speaker 2>to a safe adult? Have you got a safe atut

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<v Speaker 2>to talk to? And most of them are like, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>too scared to go to my parents. I'm too scared

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<v Speaker 2>to talk to my parents. So my lesson for that

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<v Speaker 2>is is to talk to your kids and to let

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<v Speaker 2>them know it's okay if they make mistakes, and that

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<v Speaker 2>you're always there no matter what they do.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a very important message together across because, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>in the world that they live in and not have

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<v Speaker 1>that safe place to come and speak to a parent.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of the topics that you've got in your book

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<v Speaker 1>about the adolescence use peer based abuse and prevention. Talk

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<v Speaker 1>to us about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it's we've stumbled it or we've spoken about it.

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<v Speaker 2>At thirty to fifty percent of children abuse other children.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't mean if something happens in childhood. I do

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<v Speaker 2>want to say this, if your child happens to display

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<v Speaker 2>harmful sexualized behaviors, it's what we the terminology we use.

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<v Speaker 2>We're dealing with children. They're not sex offenders. They're children.

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<v Speaker 2>But if they display harmful sexualized behaviors in childhood, it

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean that they're going to be a sex offender

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<v Speaker 2>when they grow up their children. So what we need

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<v Speaker 2>to understand about it is that some things are appropriate

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<v Speaker 2>and age appropriate. Say, for instance, two children they're both

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<v Speaker 2>twelve and they have their first kiss, that's an age

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<v Speaker 2>appropriate thing to happen. Or they're fifteen and they start

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<v Speaker 2>dating they decide to have sex. That's age appropriate because

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<v Speaker 2>there's no power imbalance. They're the same age, and as

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<v Speaker 2>long as there's the same mental capacity and there's no intoxication,

0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:46.520
<v Speaker 2>and there's no coercional or force, then everything's hunky dory.

0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.520
<v Speaker 2>But when we're talking about harmful sexualized behaviors, and what

0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:54.559
<v Speaker 2>we usually see is an older child, usually around pubescent age,

0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:59.120
<v Speaker 2>harming a younger child usually and there is stats on

0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:03.160
<v Speaker 2>this from Western Australi three to ten, ten to fifteen.

0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:08.360
<v Speaker 2>So the more likely age that a child will will

0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.600
<v Speaker 2>harm another child is between ten and fifteen, and the

0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.760
<v Speaker 2>most likely age that a child will be harmed by

0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:15.240
<v Speaker 2>another child is between three and ten.

0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, now you talked about their kids, So the person

0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:24.400
<v Speaker 1>of the fends or the inappropriate behavior doesn't necessarily lead

0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.280
<v Speaker 1>into what they're going to do in their adulthood. How

0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.400
<v Speaker 1>do you protect your child from being a victim but

0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.400
<v Speaker 1>also protect your child about respect and everything else that

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.280
<v Speaker 1>goes with it. How does that all tie.

0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Up with body safety with all of those lessons that

0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.800
<v Speaker 2>we were talking about. If we're talking about it from

0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.160
<v Speaker 2>a really young age and we're empowering children to speak

0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.199
<v Speaker 2>up and to share that they feel unsafe and uncomfortable with,

0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.960
<v Speaker 2>then we're adding on the consent. We're adding on the

0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.360
<v Speaker 2>discussion about, you know, and also being okay with no.

0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.080
<v Speaker 2>You know some one of the lessons that I teach

0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.120
<v Speaker 2>in those body safety cards is there's five types of no.

0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.959
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's soft no where you just say no,

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.680
<v Speaker 2>and you know, there's polite no, no, thank you, and

0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.720
<v Speaker 2>then the last no is screaming no, stop it, I

0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:09.760
<v Speaker 2>don't like it, or get away.

0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:13.520
<v Speaker 1>From it, say giving it, and the awkwardness of teenage

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.600
<v Speaker 1>sex or no or but you're giving them a scale

0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.560
<v Speaker 1>of those, so it's pretty clear when I'm yelling no,

0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:23.120
<v Speaker 1>that means means no yeah.

0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.720
<v Speaker 2>And in the book, I say this as well, if

0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.360
<v Speaker 2>you've never been taught to say no, which some parents

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.360
<v Speaker 2>say you're not allowed to say no to me. You

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.160
<v Speaker 2>do what I say when I say it. If your

0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:35.920
<v Speaker 2>child has never practiced saying no to anyone, when they

0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.560
<v Speaker 2>get to an uncomfortable situation like first time to have sex,

0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.559
<v Speaker 2>or they think that they're expected to do something, they

0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:43.559
<v Speaker 2>don't know how to say no.

0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.959
<v Speaker 1>That's again making me think, because I know I've been

0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.600
<v Speaker 1>through stuff. Teenager, you have no idea what the world's about.

0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, sometimes you fall into a situation where you

0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.160
<v Speaker 1>don't know I'm not into this or no.

0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 2>And that's the consent discussion, like we've I had a

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.200
<v Speaker 2>seventy something year old grandmother read my book and she

0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.280
<v Speaker 2>contacted me via email, this massive email about her life,

0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.080
<v Speaker 2>and she said to me, Christy, your consent. I've got grandkids.

0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.079
<v Speaker 2>No one has ever spoken to me about consent before.

0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.440
<v Speaker 2>And I realized how many times I've been sexually abused

0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:19.880
<v Speaker 2>because I.

0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.360
<v Speaker 1>Never actually didn't know how to say no.

0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's I had a seventy year old another

0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 2>seven year old woman during a presentation come up to

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.880
<v Speaker 2>me afterwards and say, I've never told anyone that I

0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 2>was sexually abused, And you know, seventy she was abused

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.000
<v Speaker 2>at eight sixty something year being on.

0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Too that that long. That's the impact that it has.

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 1>One of the topics that you've got in your book,

0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.680
<v Speaker 1>nude culture and teens. I think, yeah, with the advent

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:53.240
<v Speaker 1>of phones and the internet, social media, what was a

0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.000
<v Speaker 1>harmless bit of fun at the party when I was

0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 1>growing up with someone that ran through the party naked

0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 1>or something people would love and that would be the

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 1>end of it. But it's a completely different environment now

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 1>that kids are operating as teens, aren't they Yeah.

0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 2>Very much so. I mean, I've got a teenager and

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.480
<v Speaker 2>she constantly tells me that she doesn't understand because we

0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:17.120
<v Speaker 2>talk about this stuff and I've been open with it.

0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.800
<v Speaker 2>She's like, Mum, people just don't get how dangerous it

0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.480
<v Speaker 2>is to share nudes. And you know, I don't understand.

0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.400
<v Speaker 2>But that's because we've had those conversations. I've encouraged her

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.880
<v Speaker 2>to critically think these things through. Again, like I was saying,

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 2>if we're not having these conversations with our teens, this

0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 2>is what they think is normal, and this is what

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.560
<v Speaker 2>they think they need to do to get that boy's

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 2>attention or that girl's attention. I've had twelve year olds

0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 2>ask me or come to me after a presentation saying, oh,

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm being pressured for dick picks, and you know, like

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:49.280
<v Speaker 2>it's just become so normalized, and so the nudes and

0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:53.400
<v Speaker 2>the sending of nudes and everything like that is a

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.600
<v Speaker 2>real problem, and our teens think that this is what

0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.200
<v Speaker 2>they need to do. When you and I were, you know,

0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 2>in school day, you know, my boy my husband, my

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.920
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend asked me out, you know, he got his friend

0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.080
<v Speaker 2>to ask me out on you know, the back of

0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.400
<v Speaker 2>the bus, sent me a note, and then I said

0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>yes or no. You know, I don't know if does

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.840
<v Speaker 2>anyone remember when you used to like, go, will you

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:15.400
<v Speaker 2>go out with me?

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Why? No?

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:17.920
<v Speaker 2>And you had to circle which one.

0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 1>I never went down that, but that's yeah.

0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.880
<v Speaker 2>You were probably more charming and like oh no, now I.

0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 1>Got more nose and I got yes, but I didn't

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:25.960
<v Speaker 1>even know how to ask.

0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But that's right, that's exactly right. And so now

0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.360
<v Speaker 2>because they're behind a screen, they feel safe and they

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.000
<v Speaker 2>feel like nothing's going to harm me. But the reality

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 2>is they send a nude to the person they like

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:43.120
<v Speaker 2>at school, it's going to get shared. And one of

0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.760
<v Speaker 2>my colleagues over in Western Australia, Paul luther Land. He's

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.400
<v Speaker 2>a great guy. He said that he he goes and

0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 2>like talks to students all day every day and he

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:56.000
<v Speaker 2>surveys them, right, and he surveys turn up one in

0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.400
<v Speaker 2>So when boys get a nude from a girl, one

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:03.200
<v Speaker 2>in two. Okay, when girls get a dick pic from

0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.920
<v Speaker 2>a boy, about one inten will share it. So we've

0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.879
<v Speaker 2>got a cultural problem there. We've got to respect problem

0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.080
<v Speaker 2>because you know, when you're sending a nude to someone.

0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.080
<v Speaker 2>First of all, we need to talk about the fact

0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 2>that unsolicited dick pics and unsolicited nudes someone's got to

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:20.720
<v Speaker 2>if you haven't asked for it, we shouldn't be sending it.

0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's yeah.

0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The other thing that we need to talk about

0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:26.520
<v Speaker 2>with our teams and what we need to cover with

0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:31.359
<v Speaker 2>them is that that image, that photo, once someone's screenshots at,

0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.879
<v Speaker 2>once someone's got it, it's out of your control and

0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.080
<v Speaker 2>it could be out there forever. But the second to

0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.760
<v Speaker 2>that is that our young people are being groomed online

0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.240
<v Speaker 2>en mass and that is the next problem.

0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're just back to that first problem. So you've

0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.000
<v Speaker 1>got to explain to your teenager the consequences of sending,

0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.680
<v Speaker 1>receiving or whatever, and how you handle it if you've

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:57.520
<v Speaker 1>got nude pictures and of sharing it, all sorts of things.

0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Awkward conversation they have with a team. But you've got

0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:03.199
<v Speaker 1>to have that conversation.

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.720
<v Speaker 2>I actually think you need to have that conversation before

0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:06.480
<v Speaker 2>they're a teenager.

0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, that's probably sensible.

0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Because by the time they're hitting year seven and they're

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.960
<v Speaker 2>getting into high school, they're being asked for needs, they're

0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:19.600
<v Speaker 2>being shown porn, and you know, they're already it's already

0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:23.120
<v Speaker 2>in their world. And so don't think that waiting until

0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.560
<v Speaker 2>high school is where we talk about these conversations. The

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.399
<v Speaker 2>minute you give a smartphone to your child, we should

0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:28.480
<v Speaker 2>be having these conversations.

0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.880
<v Speaker 1>That makes sense. That makes sense. So it's too late

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:32.560
<v Speaker 1>to tell my son he's thirty there, so.

0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:35.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no sending dick pics.

0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'll get that message out to it. Healthy relationships

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:45.120
<v Speaker 1>like we talk about it, and yeah, there are healthy relationships,

0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.719
<v Speaker 1>but what can how do you educate your children and

0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.720
<v Speaker 1>put across the children about Yeah, relationships are beautiful things.

0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.560
<v Speaker 1>They should be enjoyed and it's an exciting time in

0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:56.440
<v Speaker 1>your life. What do you have to say to them

0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.639
<v Speaker 1>about healthy relationships and respectful relationship.

0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Again, I taught this to my daughter in her friendships

0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.320
<v Speaker 2>before she got even into high school. You know, when

0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.400
<v Speaker 2>a friend would pressure her to do something she didn't

0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.480
<v Speaker 2>want to do, I would call it out as what

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.840
<v Speaker 2>it was. That's coercion, you know. I would talk to

0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:17.240
<v Speaker 2>her about love bombing. And when someone is giving you

0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.719
<v Speaker 2>lots of things and lots of compliments, and you know,

0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:21.960
<v Speaker 2>gifting you all of these things, well that's actually a

0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.840
<v Speaker 2>way to buy your attention and to keep you, you know,

0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.880
<v Speaker 2>in their world or and I talked about the fact

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 2>that you know in the book, I talk about the

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.720
<v Speaker 2>fact that most of us learn how to be in

0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.639
<v Speaker 2>a relationship from her own parents' relationship or from the

0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.640
<v Speaker 2>people around us, those adults, and not all of those

0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.760
<v Speaker 2>relationships are healthy and safe. So having those conversations with

0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:44.920
<v Speaker 2>your young person, you might not be able to give it.

0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.800
<v Speaker 2>You know, you might be in a dangerous or unsafe relationship,

0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 2>but you can also teach that that's not how it's

0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:50.480
<v Speaker 2>meant to be.

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So if your relationship is not the perfect role

0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.600
<v Speaker 1>model for your kids, you sit your kids down and be.

0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Honest with yourself and say, look, this is an ideal,

0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.320
<v Speaker 2>this is the situation we're in. But I love blah

0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.399
<v Speaker 2>blah blah, this is why I'm here. But also, you know,

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.320
<v Speaker 2>you can use their friendships and their early relationships because

0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.520
<v Speaker 2>by the time they get to dating, yeah, their first relationship,

0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.800
<v Speaker 2>which is around fourteen fifteen, maybe even earlier, maybe later,

0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:20.639
<v Speaker 2>by that stage, they have already got a preconceived idea

0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.320
<v Speaker 2>of what a relationship looks like, and they're already starting

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.399
<v Speaker 2>to think. Well, you know, and I've had young girls

0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.000
<v Speaker 2>when young people tell me, oh, if he contacts me

0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:31.960
<v Speaker 2>one hundred times a day and to ask me where

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:33.639
<v Speaker 2>I am all the time, that just means he loves me.

0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:35.800
<v Speaker 1>No stalker.

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that's but that's what you know what I'm

0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:39.280
<v Speaker 2>talking about.

0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I do. But yeah, those type of people they

0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:47.400
<v Speaker 1>scare me as in scare me in the potential consequences

0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.680
<v Speaker 1>when they come on that strong. So you're giving them

0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 1>life advice about the relationships, what's normal and what to

0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:55.400
<v Speaker 1>look out for.

0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and just having that language and understanding what's normal

0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 2>and not normal, or what's safe and unsafe. You know,

0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.520
<v Speaker 2>what safe love is versus what's unsafe love? And there's

0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.960
<v Speaker 2>so many resources out there. I list them in the book,

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.879
<v Speaker 2>but you know one eight hundred respect is one of them.

0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 2>They've got information about love bombing, they've got information about

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.280
<v Speaker 2>healthy relationships. You know, a partner should never dictate to

0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.960
<v Speaker 2>you what you should do. And a lot of teenagers

0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.399
<v Speaker 2>get themselves into a relationship with their partners, telling them

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.040
<v Speaker 2>who they can hang out with, who they can see where,

0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, asking them where they're going what. You know,

0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.800
<v Speaker 2>that's the first part of domestic violence, if we're going

0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:31.840
<v Speaker 2>to call it what it is.

0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.399
<v Speaker 1>But we know that now as we're old and way

0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.680
<v Speaker 1>past those adolescent years. But at the time, you would

0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:39.680
<v Speaker 1>you'd have no idea. You just think, oh, this person

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:40.760
<v Speaker 1>really loves you, yes.

0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.600
<v Speaker 2>And then you're stuck in a relationship that is really

0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.680
<v Speaker 2>dangerous and unhealthy. And we see and young people are

0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:51.400
<v Speaker 2>so eager to make other people love them, you know. Remember,

0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't know if you remember, but my daughter, like,

0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.440
<v Speaker 2>she went through this phase where she just wanted people

0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.200
<v Speaker 2>to like her and love her. And she's over that now.

0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:01.320
<v Speaker 2>She's like, if they don't like me, blah blah.

0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.920
<v Speaker 1>That's that's the thing. Because you say, confused about what

0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:07.000
<v Speaker 1>life's all about. You just want to want to be

0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:08.119
<v Speaker 1>the popular person.

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Or you just want people to like it, and that

0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:12.480
<v Speaker 2>comes from that. And that's if you know, if we

0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.879
<v Speaker 2>talk about childhood development, that is normal. You know, your

0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:18.840
<v Speaker 2>children love you, want everything. They listen to you and

0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.960
<v Speaker 2>listen to your advice. And then as they get through

0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:25.040
<v Speaker 2>those first those pubescent teenage years, they're going to start

0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.080
<v Speaker 2>pulling away. They're going to start looking to their peers

0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:32.280
<v Speaker 2>for advice and for information. And then if we haven't

0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:34.320
<v Speaker 2>done the groundwork first, and then if they don't have

0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.520
<v Speaker 2>that relationship with us, we can't correct that or countercorrect

0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:39.919
<v Speaker 2>that when they're going through it. So that's why we

0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:43.880
<v Speaker 2>need to have those conversations and then hopefully we help

0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:45.440
<v Speaker 2>them guide them through there.

0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:48.280
<v Speaker 1>In the relationship. I never thought on my catch killers

0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:51.080
<v Speaker 1>i'd be seeing here getting relationship advice maybe my parents

0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.480
<v Speaker 1>should have given me, and my personal life wouldn't be

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:55.160
<v Speaker 1>as chaotic.

0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:57.679
<v Speaker 2>I don't think i'm the like I'm a I'm not

0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:00.480
<v Speaker 2>a psychologist, but I've just watched a lot of stuff.

0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:02.119
<v Speaker 2>I've watched a lot of people, I've spoken to a

0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:04.439
<v Speaker 2>lot of people, and I just realized that this is

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:05.520
<v Speaker 2>so important for our kids.

0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:11.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, very very important online stuff. Where do we start

0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:15.360
<v Speaker 1>with that? Like it's the brave new world. And when

0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:20.199
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about kids being victims of predators online, what

0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.000
<v Speaker 1>are the things we've got to look out for. Because

0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:24.639
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about the things to look out for in

0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:28.879
<v Speaker 1>people that circulate in your environment, but your teenage kids

0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.920
<v Speaker 1>are even younger, are sitting there in front of their computter.

0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:35.600
<v Speaker 1>What are the dangers we've been online for kids to

0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:39.639
<v Speaker 1>prevent them from becoming victims of sexual predators.

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so let me break it down for you into

0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:45.560
<v Speaker 2>who's out there trying to prey on your children. So

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.560
<v Speaker 2>the first so it comes down to two types of

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 2>predators online. The first one's pedophilical predatory. They're out there

0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.080
<v Speaker 2>looking for children's images. They're out there to groom children

0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:58.720
<v Speaker 2>and get those photos in. The second one is financial,

0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:01.560
<v Speaker 2>so they're the sex daughters. They're extorting kids for money

0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:04.720
<v Speaker 2>and that their sole purpose is to get as much

0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:07.320
<v Speaker 2>out of your child as possible or out of your

0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:10.280
<v Speaker 2>family as possible. So when we break that down, then

0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.240
<v Speaker 2>there's the types of abuse. So the first one is

0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:17.960
<v Speaker 2>let's start with the financial is sextortion. So it's gotten

0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:21.640
<v Speaker 2>much media and it's I saw the e Safety Commissioner

0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 2>yesterday and stopped and said hello to her yesterday and

0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:28.680
<v Speaker 2>she said that sextortion has quadrupled in the last year.

0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:33.560
<v Speaker 2>They're getting so last year they had hundreds of thousands.

0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:35.439
<v Speaker 2>I forgot to look it up before I came, but

0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:38.600
<v Speaker 2>they had hundreds of thousands of reports to that. The

0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:41.919
<v Speaker 2>Australian centered counter child exploitations. So sextortion is out of.

0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:45.159
<v Speaker 1>Cop given an example of sextortion so people understand what

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.720
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about because the consequences of that have been

0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:51.600
<v Speaker 1>really tragic in some of the ones that have hit

0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:52.280
<v Speaker 1>the media.

0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so sextortion is where a I love the police terminology,

0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:00.720
<v Speaker 2>but it makes me laugh because there's a player. But

0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:03.720
<v Speaker 2>it's basically a person behind a screen who pretends to

0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:06.840
<v Speaker 2>be a young person. So they're usually an adult, usually

0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:10.840
<v Speaker 2>organized crime gang, and they're behind a screen. They're pretending

0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:13.119
<v Speaker 2>to be a love interest to the child. So they

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:15.399
<v Speaker 2>will if it's a male, so they'll pretend to be

0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:20.000
<v Speaker 2>a hot female basically to explain it in simple terms,

0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:22.920
<v Speaker 2>and they will approach the child and they will say

0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:25.680
<v Speaker 2>to the young fella, hey, you know what you're doing

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:26.560
<v Speaker 2>blah blah blah.

0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:29.000
<v Speaker 1>And this is found on social media.

0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Usually Instagram, Snapchat, Discord, three big top ones. And then

0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:37.760
<v Speaker 2>so what they'll do is they'll pretend to be a female.

0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:40.679
<v Speaker 2>It can happen as quickly as two minutes. So they'll

0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:43.680
<v Speaker 2>go straight into their DMS messaging them, and then they'll

0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:47.000
<v Speaker 2>ask them for they'll share nudes first. To get past

0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:50.359
<v Speaker 2>that child's resistance, they will go straight to sending nudes

0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:55.040
<v Speaker 2>first or a video of them doing you know, inappropriate things.

0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:58.960
<v Speaker 2>The young person. Then, because they've already got the nudes,

0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:01.240
<v Speaker 2>they get asked for nuds back. And because they've already

0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:03.280
<v Speaker 2>got the nudes, they already go, oh, well, they've trusted

0:26:03.280 --> 0:26:05.440
<v Speaker 2>me with their nudes, I can send nudes. And they're

0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:08.760
<v Speaker 2>persistent they will harass that child, So then the child

0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:11.600
<v Speaker 2>will send a nude back or send some nudes back.

0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 2>And then once the once this predator has got the nudes,

0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:18.600
<v Speaker 2>then they'll say, I'm going to send this to all

0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:21.760
<v Speaker 2>your family and friends unless you send me one thousand

0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:25.000
<v Speaker 2>dollars or whatever, you know. And they usually use gift

0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:26.800
<v Speaker 2>cards and things like that because they know kids can't

0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 2>get cash. Most of the time.

0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:32.120
<v Speaker 1>I can imagine a kid that's been exploited like that,

0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 1>how devastating it would be.

0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Like I said, it's quadrupled in the last twelve months,

0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:41.880
<v Speaker 2>and they are like they are relentless, and they're even

0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:45.399
<v Speaker 2>goading young people into killing themselves. So, like I said,

0:26:45.520 --> 0:26:49.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, there's a really good Shadows of the Web.

0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:52.160
<v Speaker 2>I think the AFP and ACE, the Australian Centered Counter

0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Child Exploitiation, just did a documentary it's on YouTube called

0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Shadows of the Web and they're talking about the fact

0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:01.320
<v Speaker 2>that a lot of these these people who are doing

0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:05.320
<v Speaker 2>this are in places like Nigeria or Thailand, you know,

0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:10.120
<v Speaker 2>third world countries. They're just basically call centers of people

0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:14.960
<v Speaker 2>sitting behind computers, targeting children, targeting young people, and then

0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:18.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, taking advantage of them. So that's sextortion in

0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:18.560
<v Speaker 2>a nutshell.

0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how do you educate your kids not to get

0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:22.560
<v Speaker 1>caught up in that?

0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, part of that is obviously talking honestly about what's

0:27:27.280 --> 0:27:30.119
<v Speaker 2>out there, and you know they're targeting children as young

0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 2>as ten, and so if your child's got a smartphone

0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:37.239
<v Speaker 2>or a computer or chances are, chances are they're going

0:27:37.280 --> 0:27:40.200
<v Speaker 2>to get approached. Now you know, we can start by

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:43.800
<v Speaker 2>building up their confidence, giving them all of those tools

0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:45.840
<v Speaker 2>to you know, it's okay to say no, you don't

0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:47.919
<v Speaker 2>have to do anything you don't want to do. But

0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:50.400
<v Speaker 2>then when they get to that age, we need to say, hey,

0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:52.840
<v Speaker 2>this is what's out there. There's people that will do

0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:55.199
<v Speaker 2>try and harm you on They'll ask for private, you know,

0:27:55.240 --> 0:27:58.600
<v Speaker 2>inappropriate photos and videos. This is how they're going to groomy.

0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:02.320
<v Speaker 2>And like I said earlier, you know, I get young

0:28:02.359 --> 0:28:05.240
<v Speaker 2>people contacting me out of the blue, well from all

0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:07.280
<v Speaker 2>over the world because I talk about this on TikTok

0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:09.520
<v Speaker 2>and they ask me for help, and there is no

0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:13.280
<v Speaker 2>help unfortunately, other than reporting it to you know, the police,

0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:16.920
<v Speaker 2>the ACE in Australia e Safety Commissioner. There is help

0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:20.400
<v Speaker 2>in that way, but these people already have the images

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.280
<v Speaker 2>of videos or photos. There's no way to get them back.

0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:26.439
<v Speaker 2>The best thing you can do in that moment is

0:28:26.520 --> 0:28:30.480
<v Speaker 2>to stop conversing with them, take screenshots of everything, stop

0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:32.720
<v Speaker 2>conversing with them, block and report them on whatever app

0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:35.679
<v Speaker 2>they are on, and get some support from a parent

0:28:36.160 --> 0:28:39.479
<v Speaker 2>or a safe adult. Report it to ACE, because the

0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:41.400
<v Speaker 2>minute you pay them, they're not going to let go.

0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, they've got their hook in you and they keep going.

0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:49.680
<v Speaker 1>You talked about building scaffolding protection and all that, and

0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:52.360
<v Speaker 1>when you're talking about that one thing that I'd take

0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:54.520
<v Speaker 1>us back to, you were saying that you've got to

0:28:54.520 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 1>get that message in across to your children. No matter

0:28:56.880 --> 0:28:59.040
<v Speaker 1>what's happened, you can tell me about it, because I

0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:01.760
<v Speaker 1>would understand if if kids have got to the point

0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:04.400
<v Speaker 1>where they take their own lives on that they're so

0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:08.800
<v Speaker 1>ashamed of what's happened and they haven't felt comfortable coming

0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:10.720
<v Speaker 1>out and talking about it. But it's just so sad

0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:15.680
<v Speaker 1>if these things are happening. So again, no matter what

0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:18.680
<v Speaker 1>you've done, we all make mistakes. Come and come and

0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:20.320
<v Speaker 1>speak to us and reinforce that.

0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and be honest with your kids about that, like

0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:25.600
<v Speaker 2>it's okay if you make mistakes. I made mistakes as

0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:29.760
<v Speaker 2>a teenager. I made mistakes, you know, and also breaking

0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:31.719
<v Speaker 2>it down and saying you're not a bad person if

0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:35.000
<v Speaker 2>you make a mistake. Sometimes we do things that are

0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 2>like our behavior is about or not appropriate or not right,

0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:41.680
<v Speaker 2>but you the person are an amazing person and you're

0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:44.240
<v Speaker 2>not a bad person. Because when we pull the behavior

0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:47.520
<v Speaker 2>away from the individual, then it makes it so much

0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:49.600
<v Speaker 2>more easier to understand that what you did was wrong,

0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:51.520
<v Speaker 2>but you are still an amazing here.

0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a good way to break it up. It's

0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:57.760
<v Speaker 1>an important message. So okay, sextortion, that's one.

0:29:57.920 --> 0:30:02.080
<v Speaker 2>What about gloomy Okay, So we go into two different

0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:05.760
<v Speaker 2>aspects of this. So the grooming can be where someone's

0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:08.840
<v Speaker 2>just looking. So we've got you know, the dark web

0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:12.920
<v Speaker 2>has a like chat room after chat room of how

0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:16.160
<v Speaker 2>to get images off children. So these people are basically

0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:18.120
<v Speaker 2>training each other on how to do it, and they

0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:23.080
<v Speaker 2>share children's if they get If one predator gets you know,

0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:27.120
<v Speaker 2>images or videos off a child, they'll share their user

0:30:27.200 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 2>name and say, now your turn, you go and try

0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:32.080
<v Speaker 2>and get some like they're just you know, they're all over.

0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:35.960
<v Speaker 2>And so how they do that is online grooming. They

0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:39.200
<v Speaker 2>have befriend the child if they're under twelve, usually they'll

0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:41.120
<v Speaker 2>befriend the child and pretend to be the same age.

0:30:41.520 --> 0:30:45.080
<v Speaker 2>Over twelve or maybe closer to fourteen, they might pretend

0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:47.200
<v Speaker 2>to be someone just a bit older. So they'll try

0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:51.120
<v Speaker 2>and ment multiple ways. And I'm saying this, one predator

0:30:51.160 --> 0:30:55.080
<v Speaker 2>can have multiple different usernames, different profiles, and they could

0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:58.640
<v Speaker 2>be trying to get this child's images or videos from

0:30:58.720 --> 0:31:02.480
<v Speaker 2>multiple different piles. So their whole purpose is to get

0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:07.240
<v Speaker 2>those images and photos and to basically groom that child

0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:09.840
<v Speaker 2>into a believing they're in a relationship or friendship with

0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:10.360
<v Speaker 2>that person.

0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah okay, and other things that with the computer about

0:31:15.880 --> 0:31:18.560
<v Speaker 1>where they're trying to meet with the child, like that

0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:22.080
<v Speaker 1>type of grooming. Because I know the police have been proactive,

0:31:22.200 --> 0:31:24.520
<v Speaker 1>and I love it when they catch these people that

0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:27.760
<v Speaker 1>have been online and thinking they're meeting the child and

0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:29.600
<v Speaker 1>they turn up and there's a big, ugly I know,

0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:31.080
<v Speaker 1>a detective sergeant there.

0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:35.560
<v Speaker 2>I just wish there was more of that, you know that. Sadly,

0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:38.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know the statistics on this, but it's not

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.959
<v Speaker 2>happening as much as it used to, as in because

0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:46.200
<v Speaker 2>there's so much inappropriate content with children, right, so many

0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:49.520
<v Speaker 2>and one of the types of abuse that we see

0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:53.160
<v Speaker 2>is self produced content. So the child thinks they're talking

0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:54.880
<v Speaker 2>to another child, or they think they're talking to a

0:31:54.920 --> 0:32:00.280
<v Speaker 2>love interest, and they're encouraged to take photos, images, do

0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:04.360
<v Speaker 2>do something sexually explicit online and then the child doesn't

0:32:04.360 --> 0:32:06.120
<v Speaker 2>even know that they're talking to an adult, right, And

0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:09.120
<v Speaker 2>that's self produced content. And the Internet Watch Foundation over

0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:12.080
<v Speaker 2>in the UK, who's a not for profit, They actually

0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:15.240
<v Speaker 2>track all of these. They track these websites and they

0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:18.200
<v Speaker 2>basically take all of get the websites taken down. Their

0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:21.680
<v Speaker 2>hell purpose is to basically scan the Internet and find

0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:26.200
<v Speaker 2>this stuff. Right, And the largest group of abuse happens

0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:30.800
<v Speaker 2>between eleven and thirteen year eleven and thirteen girls. The

0:32:30.800 --> 0:32:35.640
<v Speaker 2>next biggest group is seven to ten girls. And then

0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:39.080
<v Speaker 2>this is self produced content. And then the last group

0:32:39.120 --> 0:32:42.120
<v Speaker 2>is three to six year old girls. Right okay, And

0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:44.560
<v Speaker 2>everyone says to me, how Christy, how three to six

0:32:44.640 --> 0:32:47.840
<v Speaker 2>year olds? Well, three year olds know how to take photos?

0:32:48.160 --> 0:32:50.840
<v Speaker 2>And they if someone's telling them what to do online

0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:54.000
<v Speaker 2>or a six year old, so they basically track it.

0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:58.480
<v Speaker 2>They classify the content that they're seeing ABC one, two,

0:32:58.480 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 2>three should have say, and they are basically sending it

0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:06.360
<v Speaker 2>off to law enforcement. So self produce content is massive

0:33:06.480 --> 0:33:09.440
<v Speaker 2>because kids are online. They don't realize that they're talking

0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:13.880
<v Speaker 2>to an adult. They're taking their own basically nudes and

0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:16.440
<v Speaker 2>sending it to someone they think they're trusting online or

0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:19.240
<v Speaker 2>because they're coerced or they're bullied or there.

0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, so all the stuff you're talking it just requires

0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:26.520
<v Speaker 1>that communication between the parent and the child, doesn't it

0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 1>look out for this because as a kid, if you

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.560
<v Speaker 1>don't have this conversation, and we don't have the luxury

0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:36.320
<v Speaker 1>of not having these conversations now from it. Just as

0:33:36.360 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 1>we were told don't talk to strangers back in our day,

0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:43.280
<v Speaker 1>this is a different world and you cannot afford not

0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:45.120
<v Speaker 1>to have these conversations with your children.

0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So the online disinhibition effect, it's an actual thing.

0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Talk us through that, Yeah, coined by a psychologist like

0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:55.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty plus years ago. So kids think because they're behind

0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:58.560
<v Speaker 2>this device, they no one knows them. And that's a

0:33:58.800 --> 0:34:02.040
<v Speaker 2>that's part of the the prose of the internet. Because

0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:05.440
<v Speaker 2>for instance, and I had this conversation yesterday, someone said,

0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:08.680
<v Speaker 2>is there any benefits to social media and online for kids?

0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:10.879
<v Speaker 2>And I said, well, think about it from the point

0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:14.239
<v Speaker 2>of view, if you are a person living with a disability,

0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:17.080
<v Speaker 2>you're not disabled online. So there is prose because you

0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:20.640
<v Speaker 2>can be in that space and you can feel that

0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:23.480
<v Speaker 2>no one knows who you are, and so that's the positive.

0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:27.879
<v Speaker 2>But the negative is you're anonymous, so therefore you can

0:34:27.960 --> 0:34:31.160
<v Speaker 2>act and behave however you want, and you know behind

0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:33.920
<v Speaker 2>to be accountability without the accountability. That's another part of

0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:38.960
<v Speaker 2>the online disinhibition effect, Oh my goodness, is because they

0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:41.839
<v Speaker 2>feel like they don't there's no one accountable. I mean, yes,

0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:45.200
<v Speaker 2>police do go and arrest people, but it's not as

0:34:45.239 --> 0:34:47.359
<v Speaker 2>many people as we want because there's just too much

0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:50.720
<v Speaker 2>going online. And then there's the fact that it feels

0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:54.000
<v Speaker 2>like a game. It feels like it's not real life

0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:56.840
<v Speaker 2>when we abuse someone online or we say something or

0:34:56.880 --> 0:34:59.520
<v Speaker 2>we send that nude and adults get caught up in

0:34:59.520 --> 0:35:01.440
<v Speaker 2>this as well. You can just go on any comment

0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:05.239
<v Speaker 2>section on say elbows social media and you see it all.

0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:09.040
<v Speaker 1>No, it's a well, I won't say a new world

0:35:09.040 --> 0:35:11.239
<v Speaker 1>that's been around a long time now, but it's a

0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:14.200
<v Speaker 1>different world that we've got to become accustomed to. Okay,

0:35:14.560 --> 0:35:17.960
<v Speaker 1>let's say that your child has come and spoken to

0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:21.719
<v Speaker 1>you and said that they've been sexually abused or in

0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:25.480
<v Speaker 1>whatever terminology. What's the steps that you should should take.

0:35:25.800 --> 0:35:28.440
<v Speaker 1>How do you break that down? Have you got examples

0:35:28.560 --> 0:35:29.520
<v Speaker 1>or yeah?

0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:32.319
<v Speaker 2>So the first thing we should always do is thank

0:35:32.360 --> 0:35:35.960
<v Speaker 2>you for telling me, or say, you know, thank you

0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:40.360
<v Speaker 2>for telling me, because I think you know, the best

0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:43.880
<v Speaker 2>thing that anyone could ever hear is that it's okay

0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:45.960
<v Speaker 2>to say what you're saying, and it's I know it's

0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:48.880
<v Speaker 2>hard you say. You know, you basically tell them thank you,

0:35:48.880 --> 0:35:51.520
<v Speaker 2>you're so brave, how you know, and just check in

0:35:51.520 --> 0:35:53.560
<v Speaker 2>with them, Are you okay right now? Do I need

0:35:53.600 --> 0:35:55.359
<v Speaker 2>to do anything to make you feel safe right now?

0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:59.319
<v Speaker 2>Because in that moment it took a huge amount of courage.

0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:02.719
<v Speaker 2>There their actual mental and health, well, their well being

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:04.520
<v Speaker 2>and their health right in that moment is the most

0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:08.719
<v Speaker 2>important thing. If there's a safety risk to the child

0:36:08.840 --> 0:36:11.840
<v Speaker 2>right in that moment, then we need to get police

0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:14.799
<v Speaker 2>onto it straight away. You know, if they're having to

0:36:14.800 --> 0:36:18.120
<v Speaker 2>go home to the perpetrator, or they're about to go

0:36:18.160 --> 0:36:22.320
<v Speaker 2>to the perpetrator's house or whatever, we need police involved

0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:22.719
<v Speaker 2>straight away.

0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So it could be a shared custody scenario, It

0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:28.720
<v Speaker 1>could be a child telling an auntie that she doesn't

0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:32.040
<v Speaker 1>want to go home with all sorts of things. So

0:36:32.280 --> 0:36:34.000
<v Speaker 1>if it gets to that point, you've got to.

0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:35.359
<v Speaker 2>Take immediate action.

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, there's no excuse for just we'll see how

0:36:38.560 --> 0:36:42.759
<v Speaker 1>this plays out. Okay. The type of things that you

0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:46.040
<v Speaker 1>should ask the child or would you suggest Okay, if

0:36:46.040 --> 0:36:48.759
<v Speaker 1>it's you get a little bit of information and then

0:36:48.920 --> 0:36:50.480
<v Speaker 1>pass it on to the police or pass it on

0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:56.279
<v Speaker 1>to the appropriate authorities. What's your initial conversation. Do you

0:36:56.320 --> 0:36:57.440
<v Speaker 1>go for all the details?

0:36:57.680 --> 0:37:00.360
<v Speaker 2>No, okay, you allow the child to tell you what

0:37:00.400 --> 0:37:03.839
<v Speaker 2>they want to tell you. You know, as long as they

0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:07.480
<v Speaker 2>are able to identify something's happened. You know, you don't

0:37:07.520 --> 0:37:09.360
<v Speaker 2>need to ask all of the questions because the police

0:37:09.360 --> 0:37:11.560
<v Speaker 2>need to ask that. And you know, if the child's

0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:14.560
<v Speaker 2>forthcoming with what they're telling you, then that's fine because

0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:17.799
<v Speaker 2>but don't get into and unfortunately it's really hard for

0:37:17.840 --> 0:37:20.680
<v Speaker 2>parents and people who love children, their child to not

0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:23.400
<v Speaker 2>go what did they do? How much? You know, because

0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:26.279
<v Speaker 2>that's quite traumatizing if you think about, you know, being

0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:27.920
<v Speaker 2>interrogating them about what's.

0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Happening, traumatized and also potentially contaminating evidence down the track.

0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:36.560
<v Speaker 1>And like you are specialist in that interviewing children, and

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:41.239
<v Speaker 1>all different police forces have those skill sets. Yes, but

0:37:41.360 --> 0:37:44.560
<v Speaker 1>it's a specialist skill. It's about not asking leading questions,

0:37:44.600 --> 0:37:47.319
<v Speaker 1>letting the kid tell the story, creating an environment they're

0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:50.520
<v Speaker 1>comfortable in that type of thing. So get the version

0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:54.320
<v Speaker 1>from the child, assess it on the information, the circumstances,

0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:56.600
<v Speaker 1>and then take action.

0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, contact police if it's something that well, you need

0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:04.520
<v Speaker 2>to contact police anyway, come on. But a lot of

0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:07.360
<v Speaker 2>children when they tell someone, they just want to tell someone,

0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:09.439
<v Speaker 2>so they're going to go, Please don't tell anyone, Please

0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:12.600
<v Speaker 2>don't tell police, you know. And as an adults, as

0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:15.399
<v Speaker 2>an individual who you know, we need to make sure

0:38:15.400 --> 0:38:18.560
<v Speaker 2>that children understand they've done nothing wrong.

0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:21.759
<v Speaker 1>That's such an important thing because a lot of a

0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:25.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of the offenders create that belief in the child's

0:38:25.280 --> 0:38:29.120
<v Speaker 1>head that they're complicit in the thing that's being done. Yep.

0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:31.600
<v Speaker 2>And they make children feel like they're either in a

0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:34.759
<v Speaker 2>relationship or that they're special, and they've done all of

0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:37.839
<v Speaker 2>this stuff to make this child completely not complete. It's

0:38:37.880 --> 0:38:40.160
<v Speaker 2>not the word that to make this child believe that

0:38:40.160 --> 0:38:41.919
<v Speaker 2>that if they tell someone, they're going to get in trouble,

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.080
<v Speaker 2>or if they tell someone, the offender is going to

0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:48.920
<v Speaker 2>get in trouble. And you know, children just sometimes and

0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:50.680
<v Speaker 2>this is something this is a hard thing for most

0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:54.080
<v Speaker 2>people to understand, is children do not want their abusers

0:38:54.080 --> 0:38:57.919
<v Speaker 2>to be in trouble. Ultimately, it's only when you become

0:38:57.920 --> 0:39:00.920
<v Speaker 2>an adult and you have adult feels and emotions and

0:39:01.400 --> 0:39:03.680
<v Speaker 2>you realize the damage has done this when you go right,

0:39:03.719 --> 0:39:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I want them to, you know, be responsible for what happened.

0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Children just wanted to stop. And so we need to

0:39:11.160 --> 0:39:13.960
<v Speaker 2>handle children with care. We need to make sure that

0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:17.000
<v Speaker 2>they know that it's not their fault, that they didn't

0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:20.120
<v Speaker 2>do anything wrong, that what that adult did is you know,

0:39:20.160 --> 0:39:22.799
<v Speaker 2>they've been the ones who've done something wrong. And I

0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:25.920
<v Speaker 2>had a person on my podcast say to me, she's

0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:29.040
<v Speaker 2>from Tasmania and she said to me, one hundred percent

0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:31.080
<v Speaker 2>of the girls in her family and seventy five percent

0:39:31.120 --> 0:39:33.120
<v Speaker 2>of the boys in her family have been sexually abused.

0:39:34.120 --> 0:39:37.800
<v Speaker 2>And she said, and she was dealing with a cousin

0:39:37.880 --> 0:39:40.239
<v Speaker 2>who was, you know, going through the court process with

0:39:40.360 --> 0:39:42.880
<v Speaker 2>her offender. And she said, has anyone ever said to

0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:45.160
<v Speaker 2>you that you actually did nothing wrong and this is

0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:47.319
<v Speaker 2>not your fault? And she said, no one, And she

0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:48.399
<v Speaker 2>was a thirty year old woman.

0:39:48.640 --> 0:39:50.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that makes it hard, doesn't it make?

0:39:50.320 --> 0:39:53.800
<v Speaker 2>See so hard? It does because as children we take

0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:56.799
<v Speaker 2>on the burden or children take on the burden of

0:39:56.840 --> 0:39:59.239
<v Speaker 2>the adults. They take on the fact that and there's

0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:02.480
<v Speaker 2>so many barriers to a child saying hey, this is

0:40:02.520 --> 0:40:05.439
<v Speaker 2>happening to me. The grooming is one aspect. The love

0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:08.560
<v Speaker 2>of the offender can be an aspect, The fact that

0:40:08.640 --> 0:40:11.320
<v Speaker 2>there might be violence in the home can be an aspect,

0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:12.840
<v Speaker 2>The fact that they don't know if they're going to

0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:15.120
<v Speaker 2>be safe can be an aspect. All of these aspects.

0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:16.520
<v Speaker 2>But then you go on and take them to the

0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:19.280
<v Speaker 2>police station and then you sit them in a room

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:22.439
<v Speaker 2>across the table with a camera going, and they don't

0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:24.279
<v Speaker 2>have a safe person in that room. And it's done

0:40:24.440 --> 0:40:26.680
<v Speaker 2>in that way for a specific reason because of the

0:40:26.760 --> 0:40:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Evidence Act and because of how they you know, we

0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:32.799
<v Speaker 2>don't want children to be feel like they have to

0:40:32.840 --> 0:40:35.080
<v Speaker 2>say something or not say something because the adult or

0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:38.640
<v Speaker 2>a family member is in the room. And so they've

0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:42.080
<v Speaker 2>got so many factors that stop them from disclosing. If

0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:44.680
<v Speaker 2>the interviewer and the child don't get along, if the

0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:48.040
<v Speaker 2>interviewer and the child, if the child feels pressured, if

0:40:48.040 --> 0:40:49.640
<v Speaker 2>the child doesn't understand what's happening.

0:40:50.000 --> 0:40:50.200
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:53.560
<v Speaker 2>So there's so many ways and adults struggle with this stuff.

0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:55.879
<v Speaker 2>We need to have a bit more compassion for children to.

0:40:56.000 --> 0:41:00.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I think, and probably giving the adults an

0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:03.040
<v Speaker 1>understanding of what their child's going to go through, because

0:41:03.200 --> 0:41:06.560
<v Speaker 1>I would imagine then I've had people contact me and

0:41:06.640 --> 0:41:09.080
<v Speaker 1>ask me, what's going to happen. I want to report this,

0:41:09.360 --> 0:41:11.360
<v Speaker 1>what's going to happen with my child? Just talk the

0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:15.160
<v Speaker 1>process through. What happens if a child comes in to

0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:18.680
<v Speaker 1>report being brought in by a parent or a responsible

0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:22.080
<v Speaker 1>adult that there've been a victim of sexual abuse. What's

0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:24.520
<v Speaker 1>the processes that the child goes through.

0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so the initial process is to take the basic details,

0:41:29.719 --> 0:41:33.800
<v Speaker 2>start the investigative process. The child might not get interviewed

0:41:33.800 --> 0:41:36.920
<v Speaker 2>straight away, dependent on the situation. So for instance, if

0:41:37.280 --> 0:41:39.520
<v Speaker 2>the abuser isn't in the home or the child doesn't

0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:42.239
<v Speaker 2>go home to that person, then they might give it

0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:45.000
<v Speaker 2>a day or two to line up their ducks and

0:41:45.080 --> 0:41:48.320
<v Speaker 2>get everything in line. If the child's in immediate danger,

0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:50.400
<v Speaker 2>then they're going to recall people and they're going to

0:41:50.440 --> 0:41:52.920
<v Speaker 2>get someone in to do it straight away, because police

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:55.640
<v Speaker 2>often work with Department of Child Protection or whatever they're

0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:58.720
<v Speaker 2>called in your state to come up with a safety plan.

0:41:58.960 --> 0:42:01.120
<v Speaker 2>If the child's in a mediate danger, so that's in

0:42:01.160 --> 0:42:05.120
<v Speaker 2>a Priority one perspective. If they're not in immediate danger,

0:42:05.160 --> 0:42:06.640
<v Speaker 2>then it might take a couple of days, but the

0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:12.719
<v Speaker 2>initial investigation starts. It's allocated to a detective because it's

0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:17.359
<v Speaker 2>not something that general duties can obviously investigate in I'm

0:42:17.360 --> 0:42:19.920
<v Speaker 2>pretty sure it would be every state. And then the

0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:23.080
<v Speaker 2>detective then starts the process. The first process or the

0:42:23.080 --> 0:42:25.920
<v Speaker 2>first part of that investigation is to get the child's evidence.

0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:29.560
<v Speaker 2>So that's through a specialist child interviewer or an interview,

0:42:29.800 --> 0:42:32.160
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes you know, if you're in a rural area,

0:42:32.200 --> 0:42:35.160
<v Speaker 2>that might not be straight away, that might be weeks

0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:37.719
<v Speaker 2>from now because you have to either travel, they have

0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:40.000
<v Speaker 2>to travel someone out to you, which used to happen

0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:43.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot with me. And then you know, then once

0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:47.719
<v Speaker 2>that interview's happened, then the actual work starts. So if

0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:51.080
<v Speaker 2>the child discloses, and I'm sad to say not all

0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:53.720
<v Speaker 2>children will disclose the abuse, they might tell that safe adult,

0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:56.240
<v Speaker 2>but then they won't tell the detective or the person

0:42:56.280 --> 0:43:01.040
<v Speaker 2>interviewing them. In those cases, if there's no evidence other evidence,

0:43:01.400 --> 0:43:04.600
<v Speaker 2>then the file or the case will have to be

0:43:04.640 --> 0:43:08.720
<v Speaker 2>filed in sufficient evidence, and then you know that it's

0:43:08.920 --> 0:43:12.279
<v Speaker 2>the child going potentially back into that home where that

0:43:12.320 --> 0:43:16.240
<v Speaker 2>person is. It's the hardest thing. It is the hardest

0:43:16.239 --> 0:43:19.239
<v Speaker 2>thing I have ever had to because a lot of

0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:21.759
<v Speaker 2>the time I would interview kids. Not a lot, but

0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:24.319
<v Speaker 2>quite a lot. But you know, I would interview kids

0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:27.800
<v Speaker 2>and I would know they were abused and they would

0:43:27.800 --> 0:43:31.239
<v Speaker 2>not say anything to me. But through that process I

0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:33.839
<v Speaker 2>did see kids come back and then that when they

0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:36.560
<v Speaker 2>were safe from that abuser, they would come back and

0:43:36.600 --> 0:43:37.160
<v Speaker 2>say something.

0:43:37.719 --> 0:43:41.040
<v Speaker 1>I think even if it doesn't get to that point

0:43:41.640 --> 0:43:45.040
<v Speaker 1>where charges can be laid because the child won't reveal

0:43:45.600 --> 0:43:48.160
<v Speaker 1>at least, and it doesn't work all the time, but

0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:50.600
<v Speaker 1>at least it's put on those as a person, the offender,

0:43:50.719 --> 0:43:52.520
<v Speaker 1>the hole that you've being looked at.

0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:55.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but sadly, I don't think you know, some of

0:43:55.760 --> 0:43:58.640
<v Speaker 2>these people just think, oh, well got away with it,

0:43:58.719 --> 0:44:01.120
<v Speaker 2>and then they ramp it up, or they grew like

0:44:01.200 --> 0:44:03.719
<v Speaker 2>they you know, the child's then silenced more. You know,

0:44:03.960 --> 0:44:08.720
<v Speaker 2>it's just, yeah, there's no Since coming out of the police,

0:44:08.800 --> 0:44:10.280
<v Speaker 2>I thought, you know, when I was in the police,

0:44:10.320 --> 0:44:13.200
<v Speaker 2>I was like, we're doing everything we can, and I'm

0:44:13.200 --> 0:44:15.279
<v Speaker 2>sure you're the same, right, We're doing everything we can

0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:17.759
<v Speaker 2>where this is the way we can have to do it,

0:44:17.760 --> 0:44:21.319
<v Speaker 2>This is all all we can do. Since leaving, I

0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:23.680
<v Speaker 2>see that there's some big holes in the whole process,

0:44:23.920 --> 0:44:25.839
<v Speaker 2>But you know that's the system we've got and that's

0:44:25.840 --> 0:44:26.719
<v Speaker 2>all we've got.

0:44:26.480 --> 0:44:30.080
<v Speaker 1>To use, and it's a system with child abuse. It's

0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:32.920
<v Speaker 1>so it just seems to me to be so under resource.

0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:36.760
<v Speaker 1>That's one consistency I can say confidently across the board.

0:44:37.040 --> 0:44:40.120
<v Speaker 1>Any time I talk to any police officer or form

0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:43.000
<v Speaker 1>of police officer that works in the sexual abuse or

0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 1>child abuse areas, they're always overworked and not sufficient resources.

0:44:48.360 --> 0:44:51.600
<v Speaker 2>No, that's right. And yeah it's never enough and there's

0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:52.400
<v Speaker 2>not enough money.

0:44:52.480 --> 0:44:52.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:44:52.800 --> 0:44:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Like I always used to like make the comments when

0:44:56.200 --> 0:44:58.319
<v Speaker 2>I was still in the job, like this is one

0:44:58.440 --> 0:45:00.720
<v Speaker 2>crime type that should have all the money.

0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, when you look at if we're trying to reduce

0:45:03.520 --> 0:45:07.040
<v Speaker 1>crime and like the impact it has on drug addiction,

0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Like how many people find their peace going to drugs

0:45:10.440 --> 0:45:13.040
<v Speaker 1>and dig a little bit deeper what caused them to

0:45:13.080 --> 0:45:15.520
<v Speaker 1>turn the drugs in the first place to master pain

0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:18.480
<v Speaker 1>that they had from when they were sexually abused? So yeah,

0:45:18.520 --> 0:45:21.440
<v Speaker 1>well how about you and I, just two ex cops,

0:45:21.440 --> 0:45:24.440
<v Speaker 1>put it out there to the States politicians if they

0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:26.560
<v Speaker 1>want to have a platform for the next election on

0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:29.800
<v Speaker 1>law and order, you want to reduce crime, reduce child

0:45:29.880 --> 0:45:32.319
<v Speaker 1>sexual abuse? Yes, I think that would be a good

0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:37.600
<v Speaker 1>platform that can be their slogan. Yeah, definitely, what if

0:45:37.640 --> 0:45:41.959
<v Speaker 1>you suspect someone of being a sexual abuser of a child,

0:45:42.000 --> 0:45:45.239
<v Speaker 1>you haven't got the evidence you suspect them, and yeah,

0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:48.400
<v Speaker 1>there's no there's a lot of gray areas there. But

0:45:48.440 --> 0:45:50.680
<v Speaker 1>what sort of advice would you give if someone if

0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:53.640
<v Speaker 1>someone came to you and said, look this person that

0:45:53.920 --> 0:45:56.800
<v Speaker 1>I see hanging around the kids at the local football

0:45:56.800 --> 0:45:59.879
<v Speaker 1>game each week, there's something that doesn't seem quite right.

0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:02.920
<v Speaker 1>Or a child has made a comment, oh, he always

0:46:02.960 --> 0:46:05.640
<v Speaker 1>takes us into the toilets. What do you do with

0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:06.360
<v Speaker 1>that information?

0:46:07.160 --> 0:46:09.799
<v Speaker 2>So, from my experience, the best thing we can do

0:46:09.920 --> 0:46:15.400
<v Speaker 2>is the children with empower empowered children. In fact, they

0:46:15.440 --> 0:46:18.600
<v Speaker 2>went and surveyed or interviewed child sex offenders in a

0:46:18.680 --> 0:46:23.160
<v Speaker 2>Queensland prison and they asked the question, if you weren't

0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:27.760
<v Speaker 2>able to complete the offense or complete the abuse, why

0:46:27.920 --> 0:46:30.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't you? So they asked them, you know, you did

0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:34.200
<v Speaker 2>the grooming, but you didn't finish, like complete the abuse,

0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:38.799
<v Speaker 2>and the child's resistance was the reason. Why. So when

0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:41.600
<v Speaker 2>a child's confident, when they know their rights, when they

0:46:41.680 --> 0:46:44.319
<v Speaker 2>understand that they you know, adults shouldn't act this way

0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:47.000
<v Speaker 2>or other children should n act this way, and they

0:46:47.200 --> 0:46:51.640
<v Speaker 2>offer resistance in the form of no going, you know, leaving,

0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:54.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, don't not putting up with that behavior, telling

0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:58.800
<v Speaker 2>an adult, then a child sex offender can't complete the offense.

0:46:59.239 --> 0:47:02.759
<v Speaker 1>That's huge, and it's a really interesting statistic and it

0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:06.359
<v Speaker 1>winds it right back to where we started. You've got

0:47:06.360 --> 0:47:10.480
<v Speaker 1>to empower the kids very early. And I could imagine

0:47:10.280 --> 0:47:14.320
<v Speaker 1>the way that they approach. It's like strengthening the house

0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:16.480
<v Speaker 1>with all alarms and bars on the window, people, and

0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:19.360
<v Speaker 1>a break into that. To the next house. Yeah, go

0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:21.480
<v Speaker 1>to the next house with a child that has the

0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:25.240
<v Speaker 1>confidence to say no, because most kids don't unless unless

0:47:25.280 --> 0:47:27.680
<v Speaker 1>you give them that power to say no to an adult,

0:47:27.760 --> 0:47:30.560
<v Speaker 1>because we've been taught to be compliant to adults all

0:47:30.600 --> 0:47:31.400
<v Speaker 1>through childhood.

0:47:31.480 --> 0:47:34.040
<v Speaker 2>So okay, So the two things that stop child sex

0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:38.239
<v Speaker 2>offenders offending against a child is the confidence and on

0:47:38.520 --> 0:47:41.839
<v Speaker 2>the noncomplicity of the child and the parent protective parent,

0:47:42.360 --> 0:47:44.840
<v Speaker 2>because a sex offender or someone who wants to abuse

0:47:44.880 --> 0:47:48.080
<v Speaker 2>children will not pick the child that has the parent

0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:51.000
<v Speaker 2>where they will get found out, or they won't pick

0:47:51.080 --> 0:47:53.520
<v Speaker 2>the child that will offer of resistance or won't go

0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:55.480
<v Speaker 2>along with it. They'll pick the next child. Like you

0:47:55.600 --> 0:47:58.960
<v Speaker 2>just said. So in saying that, how do how do

0:47:59.000 --> 0:47:59.920
<v Speaker 2>we do all of this?

0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Exactly?

0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:03.960
<v Speaker 2>We create confidence in our children. We talk to them.

0:48:04.239 --> 0:48:07.520
<v Speaker 2>And in those circumstances where you're in a club or

0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:10.560
<v Speaker 2>you're in somewhere that you know, you see something like that,

0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:14.200
<v Speaker 2>First of all, make sure the kids around you know

0:48:14.280 --> 0:48:17.080
<v Speaker 2>that you're the safe adult. You know, hey, if anyone

0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:19.560
<v Speaker 2>ever mistreats you, does anything you don't like, you ever

0:48:19.560 --> 0:48:22.680
<v Speaker 2>feel unsafe, please come and tell me, because you know

0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:24.879
<v Speaker 2>they if they don't know what to do, how can

0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:27.040
<v Speaker 2>they go and do it? And then the second thing

0:48:27.120 --> 0:48:29.359
<v Speaker 2>is to make sure that person knows you watch them.

0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Well. I'm just thinking that that scenario, you could walk

0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:35.720
<v Speaker 1>over there because people don't want them. It's a horrible

0:48:35.760 --> 0:48:38.360
<v Speaker 1>allegation if it's an unfounded allegation, but you could be

0:48:38.680 --> 0:48:41.359
<v Speaker 1>walking there with some confidence, say hey, what's going on here?

0:48:41.719 --> 0:48:42.799
<v Speaker 2>Or hey you kids are good?

0:48:42.920 --> 0:48:43.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:48:43.280 --> 0:48:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Like everyone okay here? Oh what are you doing?

0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Just put the spotlight on them, Just just.

0:48:49.120 --> 0:48:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Watch them a bit, just pay attention, let them know

0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:55.719
<v Speaker 2>that you're paying attention, call out there, and ultimately call

0:48:55.760 --> 0:48:58.760
<v Speaker 2>out there inappropriate behavior. If you ever see it because

0:48:58.800 --> 0:49:01.680
<v Speaker 2>this is the one thing and we we talk I

0:49:01.719 --> 0:49:03.759
<v Speaker 2>talk about this all the time. I had, you know,

0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:05.520
<v Speaker 2>I have people say to me, I don't know how

0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:09.040
<v Speaker 2>to say not to do this, And I'm like, because

0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:12.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, hey, my my the grandfather of my children,

0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:14.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, pat them on the bum all the time.

0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:17.080
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, okay, and they're like, I don't know

0:49:17.120 --> 0:49:18.920
<v Speaker 2>how to tell them not to do that. Hey, that's

0:49:18.960 --> 0:49:22.160
<v Speaker 2>an inappropriate behavior. Shouldn't do it around kids, you know,

0:49:22.440 --> 0:49:24.400
<v Speaker 2>call out inappropriate behavior when you see it.

0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's I like that that approach, that it's all

0:49:29.800 --> 0:49:32.160
<v Speaker 1>it's a bit awkward, like it's you know, it's just granddad.

0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:35.440
<v Speaker 1>But no, that behavior is not appropriate anymore. Yeah, we

0:49:35.480 --> 0:49:36.040
<v Speaker 1>don't do that.

0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:38.320
<v Speaker 2>And it's and it's you know I always get that.

0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh but you know how many female sex offenders and

0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:43.520
<v Speaker 2>the criminologists That was on my podcast. She said it's

0:49:43.560 --> 0:49:46.759
<v Speaker 2>actually up around twenty percent, And I was like that,

0:49:47.040 --> 0:49:50.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's not one I've heard until recently. And

0:49:50.360 --> 0:49:53.279
<v Speaker 2>and but they do the same things. It's exactly the

0:49:53.280 --> 0:49:55.680
<v Speaker 2>same behavior as exact same things that they do, and

0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:58.320
<v Speaker 2>we should be calling out male female anyone.

0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, we're starting to see it. It's come out a

0:50:01.040 --> 0:50:05.960
<v Speaker 1>little bit more where women have had inappropriate relationships teenagers

0:50:06.280 --> 0:50:09.040
<v Speaker 1>and different things. We're becoming more aware, but that's what

0:50:09.080 --> 0:50:11.480
<v Speaker 1>it's all about. Like the conversation that we've sat down

0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:14.799
<v Speaker 1>and had over the podcast chat, Now, these are the

0:50:14.840 --> 0:50:18.080
<v Speaker 1>type of things. They're awkward conversations. They're not conversations that

0:50:18.120 --> 0:50:21.120
<v Speaker 1>people tend to just drift towards because you don't want

0:50:21.120 --> 0:50:23.600
<v Speaker 1>to talk about this, and especially if you're sitting around

0:50:23.600 --> 0:50:26.759
<v Speaker 1>in a family environment and rattling off those statistics and

0:50:26.800 --> 0:50:30.160
<v Speaker 1>everyone's sort of looking around looking at each other. But

0:50:30.960 --> 0:50:33.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it's needed to be done, and there's simple

0:50:34.440 --> 0:50:38.040
<v Speaker 1>processes that you're putting in place. And yeah, I think

0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:41.279
<v Speaker 1>it's good on you for getting it out there. Where

0:50:41.280 --> 0:50:43.719
<v Speaker 1>can people get your book? Because I highly recommend it

0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:45.880
<v Speaker 1>and I look at it from a cops point of view,

0:50:45.920 --> 0:50:49.480
<v Speaker 1>How can you prevent crime and preventions better than cure

0:50:49.920 --> 0:50:53.040
<v Speaker 1>and so prevent crime? Where can they get your book?

0:50:53.320 --> 0:50:54.520
<v Speaker 1>Operation Kids Safe?

0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:58.160
<v Speaker 2>It's available on Amazon and Audible. So I did actually

0:50:58.239 --> 0:50:58.759
<v Speaker 2>record it.

0:50:59.120 --> 0:51:00.720
<v Speaker 1>How is that? Yeah?

0:51:00.840 --> 0:51:03.040
<v Speaker 2>That was cool. It was a really cool process. But

0:51:03.080 --> 0:51:05.800
<v Speaker 2>after three days of recording and I think sixteen hours

0:51:06.600 --> 0:51:09.960
<v Speaker 2>for anyone listening and who listens to the audible or

0:51:09.960 --> 0:51:13.239
<v Speaker 2>the s it's on Spotify and Audible. I sound really

0:51:13.320 --> 0:51:15.239
<v Speaker 2>calm at the start, and then my voice gets really

0:51:15.320 --> 0:51:15.920
<v Speaker 2>high at the end.

0:51:16.120 --> 0:51:19.839
<v Speaker 1>Gutsy I with my books, say asked whether I wanted

0:51:19.880 --> 0:51:21.880
<v Speaker 1>to do the audio, and I thought it would be

0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:24.759
<v Speaker 1>pretty pretty easy. But my friend Rob Carlton did it,

0:51:24.760 --> 0:51:28.320
<v Speaker 1>who's an actor, and I'm just so glad I didn't

0:51:28.320 --> 0:51:28.560
<v Speaker 1>do it.

0:51:28.719 --> 0:51:31.680
<v Speaker 2>Really Yeah, look, I think it would have been fine.

0:51:31.680 --> 0:51:33.640
<v Speaker 1>In hindsight, but there was a lot of work that

0:51:33.719 --> 0:51:34.359
<v Speaker 1>goes into it.

0:51:34.440 --> 0:51:38.440
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, yeah, it was fun. Yeah and yeah. So

0:51:38.719 --> 0:51:41.759
<v Speaker 2>and it was actually friends who kept saying, Christy, I

0:51:41.760 --> 0:51:43.600
<v Speaker 2>don't have time to read your book, can can you

0:51:43.960 --> 0:51:44.360
<v Speaker 2>record it?

0:51:44.640 --> 0:51:47.560
<v Speaker 1>It's a good way of taking taking the information in

0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:49.680
<v Speaker 1>So okay, so you can get it in audio and

0:51:50.960 --> 0:51:53.839
<v Speaker 1>through Amazon your podcasts. Yeah.

0:51:53.920 --> 0:51:56.160
<v Speaker 2>So it's called the CAPE podcast, which CAPE stands for

0:51:56.200 --> 0:52:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Child Abuse Prevention and Education. Yeah, it's just on Apple, Spotify,

0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:01.160
<v Speaker 2>all of those.

0:52:01.360 --> 0:52:03.560
<v Speaker 1>And that the risk of getting you in undated with

0:52:03.640 --> 0:52:07.200
<v Speaker 1>people reaching out. Have you got a profile anywhere that

0:52:08.000 --> 0:52:10.480
<v Speaker 1>people can see what you're doing and where you're doing

0:52:10.520 --> 0:52:13.279
<v Speaker 1>your talks or if they want to get you doing

0:52:13.360 --> 0:52:14.320
<v Speaker 1>the talk or whatever.

0:52:14.520 --> 0:52:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Perfect, So I'm on TikTok as TikTok cop paid

0:52:17.560 --> 0:52:22.120
<v Speaker 2>you one. I've had that profile for three years and

0:52:22.600 --> 0:52:26.720
<v Speaker 2>yeah and so and funnily enough, well not funny. Sixty

0:52:26.760 --> 0:52:29.040
<v Speaker 2>seven thousand people follow me at the moment on that

0:52:29.080 --> 0:52:32.360
<v Speaker 2>one profile, which is crazy, Like I do not I

0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:34.440
<v Speaker 2>just share when I think about things and when I

0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:38.240
<v Speaker 2>feel like sharing, and you know, people are really grateful

0:52:38.280 --> 0:52:42.120
<v Speaker 2>for what I'm sharing. And then on Instagram, those are

0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:44.520
<v Speaker 2>the two most platforms I use most is Christy mcv

0:52:44.719 --> 0:52:48.240
<v Speaker 2>just my name, okay, And again on Instagram, I share

0:52:48.320 --> 0:52:53.760
<v Speaker 2>more information, free resources, all of that stuff. So yeah,

0:52:53.800 --> 0:52:57.520
<v Speaker 2>the book itself was everything I could think of, and

0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:01.239
<v Speaker 2>in every chapter I give age approp for your guidance

0:53:01.239 --> 0:53:03.360
<v Speaker 2>of what to talk about, how to talk about it,

0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:07.440
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. But on Instagram and that I'm dropping information

0:53:07.520 --> 0:53:12.120
<v Speaker 2>about red flags, you warning, science, behaviors, all of that stuff.

0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, your passion comes across and I want to congratulate

0:53:16.080 --> 0:53:19.720
<v Speaker 1>you on the fact that clearly you're a passionate police officer.

0:53:19.760 --> 0:53:21.800
<v Speaker 1>And when you leave the cops, I know it's sometimes

0:53:21.800 --> 0:53:24.840
<v Speaker 1>hard to think, how can I do something that gives

0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:29.040
<v Speaker 1>me such purpose in life. But your passion comes across

0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:32.680
<v Speaker 1>in what you're doing now, and I honestly believe in

0:53:32.719 --> 0:53:34.720
<v Speaker 1>the space that you are, you're making a bigger difference

0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:36.960
<v Speaker 1>in what you could have been in the police and

0:53:37.040 --> 0:53:41.280
<v Speaker 1>the police. You're helping people individual cases, but you're getting

0:53:41.280 --> 0:53:43.799
<v Speaker 1>a real strong message across and you should be very

0:53:43.840 --> 0:53:47.319
<v Speaker 1>proud of yourself. And I'm rapped that come on the

0:53:47.360 --> 0:53:52.000
<v Speaker 1>podcast and you've taught me a shitload. So I've got

0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:53.560
<v Speaker 1>to get back to my kids and apologize. So it

0:53:53.600 --> 0:53:55.320
<v Speaker 1>could have been, it could have been a better parent.

0:53:55.680 --> 0:54:01.040
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, if people want to hear more from you,

0:54:01.880 --> 0:54:04.640
<v Speaker 1>it's all there, and get into that book. So thanks

0:54:04.680 --> 0:54:07.320
<v Speaker 1>for coming across. I hope the walk on the Harbor

0:54:07.360 --> 0:54:09.479
<v Speaker 1>Bridge goes well for you, and I hope Sidney puts

0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:17.000
<v Speaker 1>on a sunny day. Thank you cheers. I got to say,

0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I think Christy mcveie is making a bigger difference in

0:54:19.880 --> 0:54:21.960
<v Speaker 1>the world of crime outside the cops than she ever

0:54:22.000 --> 0:54:25.800
<v Speaker 1>could inside the cops. She's so informative about child's sexual abuse,

0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:29.080
<v Speaker 1>ways to prevent and stop it, and I'm so happy

0:54:29.080 --> 0:54:31.359
<v Speaker 1>that she's out there doing this work because we're going

0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:34.520
<v Speaker 1>to stop this offense, and people like Christie talking about it.

0:54:34.680 --> 0:54:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Educating people is making a difference