1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life the average person is never 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 10 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 13 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part two of my chat with Christy McVie. 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: Christy is a retired Western Australian police detective who is 16 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: an author and an expert in child sexual abuse. In 17 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: part one, we spoke about educating parents and adults responsible 18 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: for looking after children that look out for sexual predadice, 19 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: and also how to educate children even from an early age. 20 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: And I learned something there Chrissy about that it can 21 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: start when they're two years old, and just the language 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: that you use. When we move on to now that 23 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: we're in that part two, what are the type of 24 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: behaviors we're going to look out for for these people 25 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: that pray on children. 26 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, so a lot of the time, like we mentioned, 27 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: they'll be seeking out vulnerable children, but vulnerable parents equals 28 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 2: vulnerable children. So it can be that they're grooming a 29 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: parent or an adult to trust them. And so you know, 30 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: they gaslight or more so love bond people. So they're 31 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: really really friendly, Like they'll be full of compliments and stuff, 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: and they do that to the children as well, but 33 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: they might do that to the parents, and they'll become 34 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: friends with the parents and they'll create this relationship or 35 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: this friendship with the parent. And then as time goes on, 36 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: if it happens, if it happens slowly, and sometimes it 37 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: can happen really fast, if the person's really trusting, then 38 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: they will, you know, find ways to be alone with 39 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: the child. So, hey, let me take Johnny to go fishing. 40 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: Like you know, you've got a busy week, you're tired, 41 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 2: Like you know, hey, I'm going camping this weekend. You 42 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 2: want me to take the kids with me and stuff 43 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: like that, and then and these this could be completely innocent, 44 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: but these are the ways that they get children alone. 45 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: So they're going to aim to get the child alone 46 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: in a way that they can groom the child or 47 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 2: to progress the abuse. And so, you know, some of 48 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 2: the behaviors I saw or heard was the adult would 49 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: stay up really late every night whilst everyone's asleep, and 50 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: then they were creeping into the child's room. They were 51 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: behind locked doors with children. So you know, I always 52 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 2: had a rule that there was no lock doors, no 53 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: closed doors in my house. And you know, they're behind 54 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: a door with a child, and you know, I've heard 55 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: victim survivors tell me that, you know, every time they 56 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: were abused, it was when mum was outside washing, like 57 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: hanging out the washing, and they would lock the door 58 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: and they'd be stuck or there was the perception that 59 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 2: they couldn't get out, the child couldn't get out. And 60 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: one of the other things that I wanted to mention about, 61 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: you know, every time I arrested a child sex offender, 62 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 2: they had massive pornography collections and I often get asked 63 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: the question, you know, what kind of porn do they watch? Well, 64 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: most people most I say, start off with normal everyday pornography, 65 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: but there is actually a sliding scale of how they 66 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: get down to child sexual abuse material and stuff. And 67 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: so start off with normal porn, then it gets more 68 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: violent or more sadistic. Then it goes into best reality 69 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: and then child exploitation material. But all of these predators 70 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: and pedophiles that I saw over the years, they all 71 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: had massive porn collections or some form of porn addiction, 72 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: and it just goes into that world and best Realities 73 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: comes before child abuse material. And the other thing about 74 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: the porn is that study I was telling you about 75 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: from the Institute of Criminology is that the people that 76 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: identified as abusing children and attracted to children had were 77 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: paying for porn, and they actually identified that they paid 78 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: for porn and they watched more violent beast reality porn 79 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 2: and child sexual abuse material. So that's a big indicator 80 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: as well. 81 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: Okay, and I see what you're saying as an indicator, 82 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: because we probably all know people that they're into their 83 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: porn or whatever. But that's yeah, that's an indicator that maybe. 84 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: Along with other things, but it would be something if 85 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: I was in a partnership or if I was with 86 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: someone that had a you know, was staying up late 87 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: watching lots of porn, you know, and. 88 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: Some of these you wouldn't be in a relationship. 89 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 2: Some people are, yeah, and you know, some of the 90 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: indicators that I hear from you know, victims parents or 91 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: like the non offending parent who you know was like, well, 92 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: we had a normal sex life and everything seemed fine, 93 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 2: but then they were abusing one of the children. So 94 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: you know, it's these are some of the things that 95 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: you see. And then if they're not in a relationship, 96 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: you know, they're that person that spends all their time 97 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: with children. And I heard an FBI profilest basically say, 98 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 2: if someone wants to spend more time with your children 99 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: than you do, that's a red flag because children can 100 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: be annoying. 101 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: That's a good simple way of looking at it. But 102 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: I think a common sense approach you certainly it's a 103 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: red flag that you want to look at. What about 104 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: the manipulation the offenders do on your children, because that's 105 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: something you could be looking about for as well. How 106 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: do they manipulate the children. 107 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 2: Quite often they're playing their manipulation game in twofold, so 108 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: they're manipulating you. But they're manipulating the child. So with you, 109 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 2: they might be. And I'm thinking about a specific case 110 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 2: right now where the offender was grooming the child to abuse. 111 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 2: So was love bombing them, was you know, complementing them, 112 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 2: giving them gifts, taking them out on special treats, you know, 113 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 2: or constant constantly grooming that child. But with the adult, 114 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: they were basically creating this disconnect or this yeah, this 115 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: disconnect between the parent and the child. So in order 116 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 2: to get access to this child, look, let me take 117 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: this child under my wing. And you know, their behaviors 118 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: are out of control, and you know, like I can see, 119 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: you know, so they're like gas lighting the parent into 120 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: believing that this person's this savior for this child and 121 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: is going to help fix this child's behavior and stuff. 122 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 2: Never mind that the child's behavior is changing because they're 123 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 2: being abused. You know. One of the things that I 124 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: truly believe is behavior is another form of language. And 125 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 2: when children show change behavior or show behaviors that aren't 126 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: ideal or are concerning, then we need to ask what 127 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 2: is happening? 128 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: Okay, little things like that, And it's a complex way 129 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: that they approach. It isn't like distancing the child from 130 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: the side of people, and I can just imagine using 131 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: the scenario of a single mother with children and oh, 132 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: your child, they just need the male role model. Let 133 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: me take them away for the weekend. And yeah, making 134 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: that offer to parents when the manipulation when they're exhausted. 135 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: Kids are hard. We all know that, like raising kids 136 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: are hard. You need a break, you've had a hell 137 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: of a week. Let me let me look after the 138 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: kids to either or I can babysit. But okay, they're 139 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: things again, it doesn't say conclusively that they're they're sex offenders, 140 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: but they're things to look out for. And we want 141 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: to be more aware, don't we. We don't want to 142 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: go through with blinkers on them. Think the world's a 143 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: lovely place and no bad happens. 144 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's not that's not the way it is. 145 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: Well, you come out with your statistics, statistics and that's yeah, well, okay, adolescents, Yes, 146 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: that's the brave new world that Yeah, it's a strange 147 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: world for all of us when we go through those 148 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: adolescent years. But what are the risk factors when we're 149 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: talking about sexual predators or where adolescents can come unstuck 150 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: even with any nude selfies those type of things. What 151 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: do we got to look out and how can we 152 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: help adolescent children? 153 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess the first thing that I want 154 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: to say is that when your child goes through adolescents, 155 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 2: they have like a basically they become aliens, don't they. 156 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,239 Speaker 2: I remember when my child hit around eleven, and I thought, 157 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: what the hell is going on with my child? Where's 158 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: my loving beautiful kid. 159 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: They disappear for about seven or eight years. 160 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 2: She's come back around already, but they do like they 161 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 2: have like a brain transplant overnight, and so that can 162 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: really take us out of like all of a sudden, 163 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: the child that tells you everything's no longer telling you anything, 164 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: and you don't actually can't get along with them anymore. 165 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 2: I mean, my daughter just so happened. It was right 166 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: around the time she had this brain transplant, right around 167 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: the time that I was going through PTSD, you know, 168 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: leaving the police, and she stood me up in the 169 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: hallway one time, like she was so angry because you know, 170 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: she's got all of these homes. She stood me up 171 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: in the hallway we laugh about it now, and she 172 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 2: was like, I just want to punch you in the 173 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: face like and honestly, if you ever my daughter is 174 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: the most She's a firecracker, no doubt, but she but 175 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: she was so angry at me. This is the thing, Like, 176 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: I'm being honest here because you know my daughter, I 177 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: wrote like a blog post about it. My daughter saw 178 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 2: porn at ten, right, and she you know, she was 179 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: taught about sex at eight by a friend at school. 180 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: And the thing is is that our kids are learning 181 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: something at such a progressive rate and some of us, 182 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: even myself at the time. And this is why I'm 183 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: being really honest, is that it's okay if you're stumbling 184 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: and you're going, I don't know what I'm doing here, 185 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 2: because I've done. 186 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: That, all right, Okay, Well that sets the setsus standard 187 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: that no one's perfect on. 188 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: The moment, no one is topic no one. And so 189 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: with regards to teens, one of the things that we 190 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: need to really be mindful is to keep that open 191 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 2: communication where we can, because I get teens contact me 192 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: and it's so stripped. It's so crazy that they and 193 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: reach out to me online. But it's because I talk 194 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: about sextortion and I talk about image based abuse on 195 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: TikTok and where the teens are and they contact me 196 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: and they're like, I've been sex storted. I don't know 197 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: what to do. And I always say, can you talk 198 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: to a safe adult? Have you got a safe atut 199 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: to talk to? And most of them are like, I'm 200 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: too scared to go to my parents. I'm too scared 201 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: to talk to my parents. So my lesson for that 202 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: is is to talk to your kids and to let 203 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 2: them know it's okay if they make mistakes, and that 204 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 2: you're always there no matter what they do. 205 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a very important message together across because, yeah, 206 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: in the world that they live in and not have 207 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: that safe place to come and speak to a parent. 208 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: Some of the topics that you've got in your book 209 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: about the adolescence use peer based abuse and prevention. Talk 210 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: to us about that. 211 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's we've stumbled it or we've spoken about it. 212 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: At thirty to fifty percent of children abuse other children. 213 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean if something happens in childhood. I do 214 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 2: want to say this, if your child happens to display 215 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 2: harmful sexualized behaviors, it's what we the terminology we use. 216 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: We're dealing with children. They're not sex offenders. They're children. 217 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 2: But if they display harmful sexualized behaviors in childhood, it 218 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 2: doesn't mean that they're going to be a sex offender 219 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 2: when they grow up their children. So what we need 220 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: to understand about it is that some things are appropriate 221 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 2: and age appropriate. Say, for instance, two children they're both 222 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: twelve and they have their first kiss, that's an age 223 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: appropriate thing to happen. Or they're fifteen and they start 224 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 2: dating they decide to have sex. That's age appropriate because 225 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: there's no power imbalance. They're the same age, and as 226 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: long as there's the same mental capacity and there's no intoxication, 227 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: and there's no coercional or force, then everything's hunky dory. 228 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 2: But when we're talking about harmful sexualized behaviors, and what 229 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 2: we usually see is an older child, usually around pubescent age, 230 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 2: harming a younger child usually and there is stats on 231 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: this from Western Australi three to ten, ten to fifteen. 232 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: So the more likely age that a child will will 233 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: harm another child is between ten and fifteen, and the 234 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: most likely age that a child will be harmed by 235 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: another child is between three and ten. 236 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: Okay, now you talked about their kids, So the person 237 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: of the fends or the inappropriate behavior doesn't necessarily lead 238 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: into what they're going to do in their adulthood. How 239 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: do you protect your child from being a victim but 240 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: also protect your child about respect and everything else that 241 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: goes with it. How does that all tie. 242 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: Up with body safety with all of those lessons that 243 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: we were talking about. If we're talking about it from 244 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 2: a really young age and we're empowering children to speak 245 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 2: up and to share that they feel unsafe and uncomfortable with, 246 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: then we're adding on the consent. We're adding on the 247 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: discussion about, you know, and also being okay with no. 248 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 2: You know some one of the lessons that I teach 249 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 2: in those body safety cards is there's five types of no. 250 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 2: You know, there's soft no where you just say no, 251 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 2: and you know, there's polite no, no, thank you, and 252 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 2: then the last no is screaming no, stop it, I 253 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: don't like it, or get away. 254 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: From it, say giving it, and the awkwardness of teenage 255 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: sex or no or but you're giving them a scale 256 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: of those, so it's pretty clear when I'm yelling no, 257 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: that means means no yeah. 258 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: And in the book, I say this as well, if 259 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 2: you've never been taught to say no, which some parents 260 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: say you're not allowed to say no to me. You 261 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: do what I say when I say it. If your 262 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: child has never practiced saying no to anyone, when they 263 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 2: get to an uncomfortable situation like first time to have sex, 264 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 2: or they think that they're expected to do something, they 265 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 2: don't know how to say no. 266 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: That's again making me think, because I know I've been 267 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: through stuff. Teenager, you have no idea what the world's about. 268 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, sometimes you fall into a situation where you 269 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: don't know I'm not into this or no. 270 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: And that's the consent discussion, like we've I had a 271 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: seventy something year old grandmother read my book and she 272 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 2: contacted me via email, this massive email about her life, 273 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 2: and she said to me, Christy, your consent. I've got grandkids. 274 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 2: No one has ever spoken to me about consent before. 275 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: And I realized how many times I've been sexually abused 276 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 2: because I. 277 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: Never actually didn't know how to say no. 278 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's I had a seventy year old another 279 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: seven year old woman during a presentation come up to 280 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: me afterwards and say, I've never told anyone that I 281 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: was sexually abused, And you know, seventy she was abused 282 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: at eight sixty something year being on. 283 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: Too that that long. That's the impact that it has. 284 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: One of the topics that you've got in your book, 285 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: nude culture and teens. I think, yeah, with the advent 286 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: of phones and the internet, social media, what was a 287 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: harmless bit of fun at the party when I was 288 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: growing up with someone that ran through the party naked 289 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: or something people would love and that would be the 290 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: end of it. But it's a completely different environment now 291 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: that kids are operating as teens, aren't they Yeah. 292 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 2: Very much so. I mean, I've got a teenager and 293 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: she constantly tells me that she doesn't understand because we 294 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 2: talk about this stuff and I've been open with it. 295 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: She's like, Mum, people just don't get how dangerous it 296 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: is to share nudes. And you know, I don't understand. 297 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: But that's because we've had those conversations. I've encouraged her 298 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: to critically think these things through. Again, like I was saying, 299 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 2: if we're not having these conversations with our teens, this 300 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 2: is what they think is normal, and this is what 301 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: they think they need to do to get that boy's 302 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: attention or that girl's attention. I've had twelve year olds 303 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: ask me or come to me after a presentation saying, oh, 304 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: I'm being pressured for dick picks, and you know, like 305 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: it's just become so normalized, and so the nudes and 306 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: the sending of nudes and everything like that is a 307 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: real problem, and our teens think that this is what 308 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 2: they need to do. When you and I were, you know, 309 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: in school day, you know, my boy my husband, my 310 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: boyfriend asked me out, you know, he got his friend 311 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: to ask me out on you know, the back of 312 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: the bus, sent me a note, and then I said 313 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: yes or no. You know, I don't know if does 314 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: anyone remember when you used to like, go, will you 315 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: go out with me? 316 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: Why? No? 317 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: And you had to circle which one. 318 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: I never went down that, but that's yeah. 319 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: You were probably more charming and like oh no, now I. 320 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: Got more nose and I got yes, but I didn't 321 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: even know how to ask. 322 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. But that's right, that's exactly right. And so now 323 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: because they're behind a screen, they feel safe and they 324 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: feel like nothing's going to harm me. But the reality 325 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: is they send a nude to the person they like 326 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: at school, it's going to get shared. And one of 327 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: my colleagues over in Western Australia, Paul luther Land. He's 328 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: a great guy. He said that he he goes and 329 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 2: like talks to students all day every day and he 330 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: surveys them, right, and he surveys turn up one in 331 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 2: So when boys get a nude from a girl, one 332 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: in two. Okay, when girls get a dick pic from 333 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 2: a boy, about one inten will share it. So we've 334 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 2: got a cultural problem there. We've got to respect problem 335 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 2: because you know, when you're sending a nude to someone. 336 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 2: First of all, we need to talk about the fact 337 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: that unsolicited dick pics and unsolicited nudes someone's got to 338 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 2: if you haven't asked for it, we shouldn't be sending it. 339 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: Well, that's yeah. 340 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. The other thing that we need to talk about 341 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: with our teams and what we need to cover with 342 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 2: them is that that image, that photo, once someone's screenshots at, 343 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 2: once someone's got it, it's out of your control and 344 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 2: it could be out there forever. But the second to 345 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 2: that is that our young people are being groomed online 346 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: en mass and that is the next problem. 347 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: Okay, we're just back to that first problem. So you've 348 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: got to explain to your teenager the consequences of sending, 349 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: receiving or whatever, and how you handle it if you've 350 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: got nude pictures and of sharing it, all sorts of things. 351 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: Awkward conversation they have with a team. But you've got 352 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: to have that conversation. 353 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 2: I actually think you need to have that conversation before 354 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 2: they're a teenager. 355 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's probably sensible. 356 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 2: Because by the time they're hitting year seven and they're 357 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 2: getting into high school, they're being asked for needs, they're 358 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: being shown porn, and you know, they're already it's already 359 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 2: in their world. And so don't think that waiting until 360 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 2: high school is where we talk about these conversations. The 361 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 2: minute you give a smartphone to your child, we should 362 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 2: be having these conversations. 363 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: That makes sense. That makes sense. So it's too late 364 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: to tell my son he's thirty there, so. 365 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, no sending dick pics. 366 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: Okay, I'll get that message out to it. Healthy relationships 367 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: like we talk about it, and yeah, there are healthy relationships, 368 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: but what can how do you educate your children and 369 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: put across the children about Yeah, relationships are beautiful things. 370 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: They should be enjoyed and it's an exciting time in 371 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: your life. What do you have to say to them 372 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: about healthy relationships and respectful relationship. 373 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 2: Again, I taught this to my daughter in her friendships 374 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: before she got even into high school. You know, when 375 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 2: a friend would pressure her to do something she didn't 376 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 2: want to do, I would call it out as what 377 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: it was. That's coercion, you know. I would talk to 378 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 2: her about love bombing. And when someone is giving you 379 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 2: lots of things and lots of compliments, and you know, 380 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: gifting you all of these things, well that's actually a 381 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 2: way to buy your attention and to keep you, you know, 382 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 2: in their world or and I talked about the fact 383 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 2: that you know in the book, I talk about the 384 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: fact that most of us learn how to be in 385 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 2: a relationship from her own parents' relationship or from the 386 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 2: people around us, those adults, and not all of those 387 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: relationships are healthy and safe. So having those conversations with 388 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 2: your young person, you might not be able to give it. 389 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 2: You know, you might be in a dangerous or unsafe relationship, 390 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: but you can also teach that that's not how it's 391 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: meant to be. 392 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: Okay. So if your relationship is not the perfect role 393 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: model for your kids, you sit your kids down and be. 394 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: Honest with yourself and say, look, this is an ideal, 395 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 2: this is the situation we're in. But I love blah 396 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 2: blah blah, this is why I'm here. But also, you know, 397 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: you can use their friendships and their early relationships because 398 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: by the time they get to dating, yeah, their first relationship, 399 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: which is around fourteen fifteen, maybe even earlier, maybe later, 400 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 2: by that stage, they have already got a preconceived idea 401 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 2: of what a relationship looks like, and they're already starting 402 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 2: to think. Well, you know, and I've had young girls 403 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 2: when young people tell me, oh, if he contacts me 404 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: one hundred times a day and to ask me where 405 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 2: I am all the time, that just means he loves me. 406 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: No stalker. 407 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's but that's what you know what I'm 408 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: talking about. 409 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. But yeah, those type of people they 410 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: scare me as in scare me in the potential consequences 411 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: when they come on that strong. So you're giving them 412 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: life advice about the relationships, what's normal and what to 413 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: look out for. 414 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just having that language and understanding what's normal 415 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 2: and not normal, or what's safe and unsafe. You know, 416 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 2: what safe love is versus what's unsafe love? And there's 417 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 2: so many resources out there. I list them in the book, 418 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 2: but you know one eight hundred respect is one of them. 419 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 2: They've got information about love bombing, they've got information about 420 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: healthy relationships. You know, a partner should never dictate to 421 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: you what you should do. And a lot of teenagers 422 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 2: get themselves into a relationship with their partners, telling them 423 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: who they can hang out with, who they can see where, 424 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 2: you know, asking them where they're going what. You know, 425 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: that's the first part of domestic violence, if we're going 426 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 2: to call it what it is. 427 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: But we know that now as we're old and way 428 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: past those adolescent years. But at the time, you would 429 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: you'd have no idea. You just think, oh, this person 430 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: really loves you, yes. 431 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 2: And then you're stuck in a relationship that is really 432 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 2: dangerous and unhealthy. And we see and young people are 433 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 2: so eager to make other people love them, you know. Remember, 434 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if you remember, but my daughter, like, 435 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 2: she went through this phase where she just wanted people 436 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 2: to like her and love her. And she's over that now. 437 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: She's like, if they don't like me, blah blah. 438 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: That's that's the thing. Because you say, confused about what 439 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: life's all about. You just want to want to be 440 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: the popular person. 441 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 2: Or you just want people to like it, and that 442 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: comes from that. And that's if you know, if we 443 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 2: talk about childhood development, that is normal. You know, your 444 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: children love you, want everything. They listen to you and 445 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 2: listen to your advice. And then as they get through 446 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 2: those first those pubescent teenage years, they're going to start 447 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 2: pulling away. They're going to start looking to their peers 448 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: for advice and for information. And then if we haven't 449 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 2: done the groundwork first, and then if they don't have 450 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 2: that relationship with us, we can't correct that or countercorrect 451 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 2: that when they're going through it. So that's why we 452 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 2: need to have those conversations and then hopefully we help 453 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 2: them guide them through there. 454 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: In the relationship. I never thought on my catch killers 455 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: i'd be seeing here getting relationship advice maybe my parents 456 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: should have given me, and my personal life wouldn't be 457 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: as chaotic. 458 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 2: I don't think i'm the like I'm a I'm not 459 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 2: a psychologist, but I've just watched a lot of stuff. 460 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 2: I've watched a lot of people, I've spoken to a 461 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 2: lot of people, and I just realized that this is 462 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: so important for our kids. 463 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, very very important online stuff. Where do we start 464 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: with that? Like it's the brave new world. And when 465 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: we're talking about kids being victims of predators online, what 466 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: are the things we've got to look out for. Because 467 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: we've talked about the things to look out for in 468 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: people that circulate in your environment, but your teenage kids 469 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: are even younger, are sitting there in front of their computter. 470 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: What are the dangers we've been online for kids to 471 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: prevent them from becoming victims of sexual predators. 472 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, so let me break it down for you into 473 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: who's out there trying to prey on your children. So 474 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 2: the first so it comes down to two types of 475 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: predators online. The first one's pedophilical predatory. They're out there 476 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 2: looking for children's images. They're out there to groom children 477 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: and get those photos in. The second one is financial, 478 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: so they're the sex daughters. They're extorting kids for money 479 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 2: and that their sole purpose is to get as much 480 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 2: out of your child as possible or out of your 481 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 2: family as possible. So when we break that down, then 482 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: there's the types of abuse. So the first one is 483 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: let's start with the financial is sextortion. So it's gotten 484 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 2: much media and it's I saw the e Safety Commissioner 485 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: yesterday and stopped and said hello to her yesterday and 486 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: she said that sextortion has quadrupled in the last year. 487 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 2: They're getting so last year they had hundreds of thousands. 488 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 2: I forgot to look it up before I came, but 489 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 2: they had hundreds of thousands of reports to that. The 490 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 2: Australian centered counter child exploitations. So sextortion is out of. 491 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: Cop given an example of sextortion so people understand what 492 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: we're talking about because the consequences of that have been 493 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: really tragic in some of the ones that have hit 494 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: the media. 495 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, so sextortion is where a I love the police terminology, 496 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: but it makes me laugh because there's a player. But 497 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 2: it's basically a person behind a screen who pretends to 498 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 2: be a young person. So they're usually an adult, usually 499 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 2: organized crime gang, and they're behind a screen. They're pretending 500 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 2: to be a love interest to the child. So they 501 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 2: will if it's a male, so they'll pretend to be 502 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: a hot female basically to explain it in simple terms, 503 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 2: and they will approach the child and they will say 504 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 2: to the young fella, hey, you know what you're doing 505 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 2: blah blah blah. 506 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: And this is found on social media. 507 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 2: Usually Instagram, Snapchat, Discord, three big top ones. And then 508 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: so what they'll do is they'll pretend to be a female. 509 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 2: It can happen as quickly as two minutes. So they'll 510 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 2: go straight into their DMS messaging them, and then they'll 511 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 2: ask them for they'll share nudes first. To get past 512 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: that child's resistance, they will go straight to sending nudes 513 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: first or a video of them doing you know, inappropriate things. 514 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: The young person. Then, because they've already got the nudes, 515 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: they get asked for nuds back. And because they've already 516 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: got the nudes, they already go, oh, well, they've trusted 517 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: me with their nudes, I can send nudes. And they're 518 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 2: persistent they will harass that child, So then the child 519 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 2: will send a nude back or send some nudes back. 520 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 2: And then once the once this predator has got the nudes, 521 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 2: then they'll say, I'm going to send this to all 522 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 2: your family and friends unless you send me one thousand 523 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 2: dollars or whatever, you know. And they usually use gift 524 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: cards and things like that because they know kids can't 525 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: get cash. Most of the time. 526 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: I can imagine a kid that's been exploited like that, 527 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: how devastating it would be. 528 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 2: Like I said, it's quadrupled in the last twelve months, 529 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 2: and they are like they are relentless, and they're even 530 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 2: goading young people into killing themselves. So, like I said, 531 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: you know, there's a really good Shadows of the Web. 532 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 2: I think the AFP and ACE, the Australian Centered Counter 533 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 2: Child Exploitiation, just did a documentary it's on YouTube called 534 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 2: Shadows of the Web and they're talking about the fact 535 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: that a lot of these these people who are doing 536 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: this are in places like Nigeria or Thailand, you know, 537 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 2: third world countries. They're just basically call centers of people 538 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 2: sitting behind computers, targeting children, targeting young people, and then 539 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: you know, taking advantage of them. So that's sextortion in 540 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 2: a nutshell. 541 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: Okay, how do you educate your kids not to get 542 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: caught up in that? 543 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: Well, part of that is obviously talking honestly about what's 544 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 2: out there, and you know they're targeting children as young 545 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: as ten, and so if your child's got a smartphone 546 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,239 Speaker 2: or a computer or chances are, chances are they're going 547 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 2: to get approached. Now you know, we can start by 548 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 2: building up their confidence, giving them all of those tools 549 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 2: to you know, it's okay to say no, you don't 550 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 2: have to do anything you don't want to do. But 551 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 2: then when they get to that age, we need to say, hey, 552 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 2: this is what's out there. There's people that will do 553 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 2: try and harm you on They'll ask for private, you know, 554 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 2: inappropriate photos and videos. This is how they're going to groomy. 555 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 2: And like I said earlier, you know, I get young 556 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: people contacting me out of the blue, well from all 557 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 2: over the world because I talk about this on TikTok 558 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 2: and they ask me for help, and there is no 559 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 2: help unfortunately, other than reporting it to you know, the police, 560 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 2: the ACE in Australia e Safety Commissioner. There is help 561 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 2: in that way, but these people already have the images 562 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 2: of videos or photos. There's no way to get them back. 563 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 2: The best thing you can do in that moment is 564 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 2: to stop conversing with them, take screenshots of everything, stop 565 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 2: conversing with them, block and report them on whatever app 566 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 2: they are on, and get some support from a parent 567 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 2: or a safe adult. Report it to ACE, because the 568 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 2: minute you pay them, they're not going to let go. 569 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: Okay, they've got their hook in you and they keep going. 570 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: You talked about building scaffolding protection and all that, and 571 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: when you're talking about that one thing that I'd take 572 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: us back to, you were saying that you've got to 573 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: get that message in across to your children. No matter 574 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: what's happened, you can tell me about it, because I 575 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: would understand if if kids have got to the point 576 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: where they take their own lives on that they're so 577 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: ashamed of what's happened and they haven't felt comfortable coming 578 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: out and talking about it. But it's just so sad 579 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: if these things are happening. So again, no matter what 580 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: you've done, we all make mistakes. Come and come and 581 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: speak to us and reinforce that. 582 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and be honest with your kids about that, like 583 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 2: it's okay if you make mistakes. I made mistakes as 584 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: a teenager. I made mistakes, you know, and also breaking 585 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,719 Speaker 2: it down and saying you're not a bad person if 586 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: you make a mistake. Sometimes we do things that are 587 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 2: like our behavior is about or not appropriate or not right, 588 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: but you the person are an amazing person and you're 589 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 2: not a bad person. Because when we pull the behavior 590 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 2: away from the individual, then it makes it so much 591 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 2: more easier to understand that what you did was wrong, 592 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: but you are still an amazing here. 593 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good way to break it up. It's 594 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: an important message. So okay, sextortion, that's one. 595 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 2: What about gloomy Okay, So we go into two different 596 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 2: aspects of this. So the grooming can be where someone's 597 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: just looking. So we've got you know, the dark web 598 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 2: has a like chat room after chat room of how 599 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 2: to get images off children. So these people are basically 600 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 2: training each other on how to do it, and they 601 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 2: share children's if they get If one predator gets you know, 602 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 2: images or videos off a child, they'll share their user 603 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 2: name and say, now your turn, you go and try 604 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 2: and get some like they're just you know, they're all over. 605 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 2: And so how they do that is online grooming. They 606 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 2: have befriend the child if they're under twelve, usually they'll 607 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 2: befriend the child and pretend to be the same age. 608 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: Over twelve or maybe closer to fourteen, they might pretend 609 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: to be someone just a bit older. So they'll try 610 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 2: and ment multiple ways. And I'm saying this, one predator 611 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: can have multiple different usernames, different profiles, and they could 612 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: be trying to get this child's images or videos from 613 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 2: multiple different piles. So their whole purpose is to get 614 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 2: those images and photos and to basically groom that child 615 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 2: into a believing they're in a relationship or friendship with 616 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 2: that person. 617 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: Yeah okay, and other things that with the computer about 618 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: where they're trying to meet with the child, like that 619 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: type of grooming. Because I know the police have been proactive, 620 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: and I love it when they catch these people that 621 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: have been online and thinking they're meeting the child and 622 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: they turn up and there's a big, ugly I know, 623 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: a detective sergeant there. 624 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 2: I just wish there was more of that, you know that. Sadly, 625 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 2: I don't know the statistics on this, but it's not 626 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,959 Speaker 2: happening as much as it used to, as in because 627 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 2: there's so much inappropriate content with children, right, so many 628 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 2: and one of the types of abuse that we see 629 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 2: is self produced content. So the child thinks they're talking 630 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 2: to another child, or they think they're talking to a 631 00:31:54,920 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 2: love interest, and they're encouraged to take photos, images, do 632 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 2: do something sexually explicit online and then the child doesn't 633 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 2: even know that they're talking to an adult, right, And 634 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 2: that's self produced content. And the Internet Watch Foundation over 635 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: in the UK, who's a not for profit, They actually 636 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 2: track all of these. They track these websites and they 637 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 2: basically take all of get the websites taken down. Their 638 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 2: hell purpose is to basically scan the Internet and find 639 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 2: this stuff. Right, And the largest group of abuse happens 640 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 2: between eleven and thirteen year eleven and thirteen girls. The 641 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 2: next biggest group is seven to ten girls. And then 642 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 2: this is self produced content. And then the last group 643 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 2: is three to six year old girls. Right okay, And 644 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 2: everyone says to me, how Christy, how three to six 645 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 2: year olds? Well, three year olds know how to take photos? 646 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 2: And they if someone's telling them what to do online 647 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 2: or a six year old, so they basically track it. 648 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: They classify the content that they're seeing ABC one, two, 649 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: three should have say, and they are basically sending it 650 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 2: off to law enforcement. So self produce content is massive 651 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 2: because kids are online. They don't realize that they're talking 652 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 2: to an adult. They're taking their own basically nudes and 653 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 2: sending it to someone they think they're trusting online or 654 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 2: because they're coerced or they're bullied or there. 655 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: Well, so all the stuff you're talking it just requires 656 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: that communication between the parent and the child, doesn't it 657 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: look out for this because as a kid, if you 658 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: don't have this conversation, and we don't have the luxury 659 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: of not having these conversations now from it. Just as 660 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: we were told don't talk to strangers back in our day, 661 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: this is a different world and you cannot afford not 662 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: to have these conversations with your children. 663 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the online disinhibition effect, it's an actual thing. 664 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 2: Talk us through that, Yeah, coined by a psychologist like 665 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 2: twenty plus years ago. So kids think because they're behind 666 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 2: this device, they no one knows them. And that's a 667 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 2: that's part of the the prose of the internet. Because 668 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 2: for instance, and I had this conversation yesterday, someone said, 669 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 2: is there any benefits to social media and online for kids? 670 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 2: And I said, well, think about it from the point 671 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 2: of view, if you are a person living with a disability, 672 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: you're not disabled online. So there is prose because you 673 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 2: can be in that space and you can feel that 674 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 2: no one knows who you are, and so that's the positive. 675 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 2: But the negative is you're anonymous, so therefore you can 676 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 2: act and behave however you want, and you know behind 677 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 2: to be accountability without the accountability. That's another part of 678 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 2: the online disinhibition effect, Oh my goodness, is because they 679 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 2: feel like they don't there's no one accountable. I mean, yes, 680 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 2: police do go and arrest people, but it's not as 681 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 2: many people as we want because there's just too much 682 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 2: going online. And then there's the fact that it feels 683 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 2: like a game. It feels like it's not real life 684 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 2: when we abuse someone online or we say something or 685 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 2: we send that nude and adults get caught up in 686 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 2: this as well. You can just go on any comment 687 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 2: section on say elbows social media and you see it all. 688 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: No, it's a well, I won't say a new world 689 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: that's been around a long time now, but it's a 690 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: different world that we've got to become accustomed to. Okay, 691 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: let's say that your child has come and spoken to 692 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: you and said that they've been sexually abused or in 693 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: whatever terminology. What's the steps that you should should take. 694 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: How do you break that down? Have you got examples 695 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: or yeah? 696 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 2: So the first thing we should always do is thank 697 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 2: you for telling me, or say, you know, thank you 698 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 2: for telling me, because I think you know, the best 699 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 2: thing that anyone could ever hear is that it's okay 700 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 2: to say what you're saying, and it's I know it's 701 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 2: hard you say. You know, you basically tell them thank you, 702 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 2: you're so brave, how you know, and just check in 703 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 2: with them, Are you okay right now? Do I need 704 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 2: to do anything to make you feel safe right now? 705 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 2: Because in that moment it took a huge amount of courage. 706 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 2: There their actual mental and health, well, their well being 707 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 2: and their health right in that moment is the most 708 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 2: important thing. If there's a safety risk to the child 709 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 2: right in that moment, then we need to get police 710 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 2: onto it straight away. You know, if they're having to 711 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 2: go home to the perpetrator, or they're about to go 712 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 2: to the perpetrator's house or whatever, we need police involved 713 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 2: straight away. 714 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: Okay. So it could be a shared custody scenario, It 715 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,720 Speaker 1: could be a child telling an auntie that she doesn't 716 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: want to go home with all sorts of things. So 717 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: if it gets to that point, you've got to. 718 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 2: Take immediate action. 719 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's no excuse for just we'll see how 720 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: this plays out. Okay. The type of things that you 721 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: should ask the child or would you suggest Okay, if 722 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: it's you get a little bit of information and then 723 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: pass it on to the police or pass it on 724 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: to the appropriate authorities. What's your initial conversation. Do you 725 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: go for all the details? 726 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 2: No, okay, you allow the child to tell you what 727 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,839 Speaker 2: they want to tell you. You know, as long as they 728 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 2: are able to identify something's happened. You know, you don't 729 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 2: need to ask all of the questions because the police 730 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 2: need to ask that. And you know, if the child's 731 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 2: forthcoming with what they're telling you, then that's fine because 732 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 2: but don't get into and unfortunately it's really hard for 733 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 2: parents and people who love children, their child to not 734 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 2: go what did they do? How much? You know, because 735 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 2: that's quite traumatizing if you think about, you know, being 736 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 2: interrogating them about what's. 737 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: Happening, traumatized and also potentially contaminating evidence down the track. 738 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: And like you are specialist in that interviewing children, and 739 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: all different police forces have those skill sets. Yes, but 740 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: it's a specialist skill. It's about not asking leading questions, 741 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: letting the kid tell the story, creating an environment they're 742 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: comfortable in that type of thing. So get the version 743 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: from the child, assess it on the information, the circumstances, 744 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: and then take action. 745 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, contact police if it's something that well, you need 746 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 2: to contact police anyway, come on. But a lot of 747 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 2: children when they tell someone, they just want to tell someone, 748 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 2: so they're going to go, Please don't tell anyone, Please 749 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 2: don't tell police, you know. And as an adults, as 750 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,399 Speaker 2: an individual who you know, we need to make sure 751 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 2: that children understand they've done nothing wrong. 752 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: That's such an important thing because a lot of a 753 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: lot of the offenders create that belief in the child's 754 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: head that they're complicit in the thing that's being done. Yep. 755 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 2: And they make children feel like they're either in a 756 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 2: relationship or that they're special, and they've done all of 757 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 2: this stuff to make this child completely not complete. It's 758 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 2: not the word that to make this child believe that 759 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,919 Speaker 2: that if they tell someone, they're going to get in trouble, 760 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 2: or if they tell someone, the offender is going to 761 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 2: get in trouble. And you know, children just sometimes and 762 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 2: this is something this is a hard thing for most 763 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 2: people to understand, is children do not want their abusers 764 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 2: to be in trouble. Ultimately, it's only when you become 765 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 2: an adult and you have adult feels and emotions and 766 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 2: you realize the damage has done this when you go right, 767 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 2: I want them to, you know, be responsible for what happened. 768 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 2: Children just wanted to stop. And so we need to 769 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 2: handle children with care. We need to make sure that 770 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 2: they know that it's not their fault, that they didn't 771 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 2: do anything wrong, that what that adult did is you know, 772 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 2: they've been the ones who've done something wrong. And I 773 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 2: had a person on my podcast say to me, she's 774 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 2: from Tasmania and she said to me, one hundred percent 775 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 2: of the girls in her family and seventy five percent 776 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 2: of the boys in her family have been sexually abused. 777 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 2: And she said, and she was dealing with a cousin 778 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 2: who was, you know, going through the court process with 779 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 2: her offender. And she said, has anyone ever said to 780 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 2: you that you actually did nothing wrong and this is 781 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 2: not your fault? And she said, no one, And she 782 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:48,399 Speaker 2: was a thirty year old woman. 783 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes it hard, doesn't it make? 784 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 2: See so hard? It does because as children we take 785 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 2: on the burden or children take on the burden of 786 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 2: the adults. They take on the fact that and there's 787 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 2: so many barriers to a child saying hey, this is 788 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,439 Speaker 2: happening to me. The grooming is one aspect. The love 789 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 2: of the offender can be an aspect, The fact that 790 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 2: there might be violence in the home can be an aspect, 791 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 2: The fact that they don't know if they're going to 792 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 2: be safe can be an aspect. All of these aspects. 793 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 2: But then you go on and take them to the 794 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,280 Speaker 2: police station and then you sit them in a room 795 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,439 Speaker 2: across the table with a camera going, and they don't 796 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 2: have a safe person in that room. And it's done 797 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 2: in that way for a specific reason because of the 798 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 2: Evidence Act and because of how they you know, we 799 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 2: don't want children to be feel like they have to 800 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 2: say something or not say something because the adult or 801 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 2: a family member is in the room. And so they've 802 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 2: got so many factors that stop them from disclosing. If 803 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 2: the interviewer and the child don't get along, if the 804 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 2: interviewer and the child, if the child feels pressured, if 805 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 2: the child doesn't understand what's happening. 806 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: You know. 807 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 2: So there's so many ways and adults struggle with this stuff. 808 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 2: We need to have a bit more compassion for children to. 809 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think, and probably giving the adults an 810 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: understanding of what their child's going to go through, because 811 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 1: I would imagine then I've had people contact me and 812 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: ask me, what's going to happen. I want to report this, 813 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: what's going to happen with my child? Just talk the 814 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: process through. What happens if a child comes in to 815 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: report being brought in by a parent or a responsible 816 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: adult that there've been a victim of sexual abuse. What's 817 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: the processes that the child goes through. 818 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the initial process is to take the basic details, 819 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 2: start the investigative process. The child might not get interviewed 820 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 2: straight away, dependent on the situation. So for instance, if 821 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,520 Speaker 2: the abuser isn't in the home or the child doesn't 822 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 2: go home to that person, then they might give it 823 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 2: a day or two to line up their ducks and 824 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 2: get everything in line. If the child's in immediate danger, 825 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 2: then they're going to recall people and they're going to 826 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 2: get someone in to do it straight away, because police 827 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 2: often work with Department of Child Protection or whatever they're 828 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,720 Speaker 2: called in your state to come up with a safety plan. 829 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 2: If the child's in a mediate danger, so that's in 830 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 2: a Priority one perspective. If they're not in immediate danger, 831 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 2: then it might take a couple of days, but the 832 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 2: initial investigation starts. It's allocated to a detective because it's 833 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:17,359 Speaker 2: not something that general duties can obviously investigate in I'm 834 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 2: pretty sure it would be every state. And then the 835 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 2: detective then starts the process. The first process or the 836 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 2: first part of that investigation is to get the child's evidence. 837 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 2: So that's through a specialist child interviewer or an interview, 838 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 2: and sometimes you know, if you're in a rural area, 839 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 2: that might not be straight away, that might be weeks 840 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 2: from now because you have to either travel, they have 841 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 2: to travel someone out to you, which used to happen 842 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 2: a lot with me. And then you know, then once 843 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 2: that interview's happened, then the actual work starts. So if 844 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 2: the child discloses, and I'm sad to say not all 845 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,720 Speaker 2: children will disclose the abuse, they might tell that safe adult, 846 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,240 Speaker 2: but then they won't tell the detective or the person 847 00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 2: interviewing them. In those cases, if there's no evidence other evidence, 848 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 2: then the file or the case will have to be 849 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,720 Speaker 2: filed in sufficient evidence, and then you know that it's 850 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 2: the child going potentially back into that home where that 851 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,240 Speaker 2: person is. It's the hardest thing. It is the hardest 852 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 2: thing I have ever had to because a lot of 853 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 2: the time I would interview kids. Not a lot, but 854 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 2: quite a lot. But you know, I would interview kids 855 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,800 Speaker 2: and I would know they were abused and they would 856 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,239 Speaker 2: not say anything to me. But through that process I 857 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,839 Speaker 2: did see kids come back and then that when they 858 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 2: were safe from that abuser, they would come back and 859 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 2: say something. 860 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: I think even if it doesn't get to that point 861 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: where charges can be laid because the child won't reveal 862 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: at least, and it doesn't work all the time, but 863 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: at least it's put on those as a person, the offender, 864 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: the hole that you've being looked at. 865 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, but sadly, I don't think you know, some of 866 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 2: these people just think, oh, well got away with it, 867 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 2: and then they ramp it up, or they grew like 868 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 2: they you know, the child's then silenced more. You know, 869 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,720 Speaker 2: it's just, yeah, there's no Since coming out of the police, 870 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,280 Speaker 2: I thought, you know, when I was in the police, 871 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 2: I was like, we're doing everything we can, and I'm 872 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 2: sure you're the same, right, We're doing everything we can 873 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,759 Speaker 2: where this is the way we can have to do it, 874 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,319 Speaker 2: This is all all we can do. Since leaving, I 875 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 2: see that there's some big holes in the whole process, 876 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,839 Speaker 2: But you know that's the system we've got and that's 877 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 2: all we've got. 878 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: To use, and it's a system with child abuse. It's 879 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: so it just seems to me to be so under resource. 880 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,760 Speaker 1: That's one consistency I can say confidently across the board. 881 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: Any time I talk to any police officer or form 882 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: of police officer that works in the sexual abuse or 883 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: child abuse areas, they're always overworked and not sufficient resources. 884 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 2: No, that's right. And yeah it's never enough and there's 885 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 2: not enough money. 886 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 887 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 2: Like I always used to like make the comments when 888 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,319 Speaker 2: I was still in the job, like this is one 889 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,720 Speaker 2: crime type that should have all the money. 890 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: Well, when you look at if we're trying to reduce 891 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: crime and like the impact it has on drug addiction, 892 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 1: Like how many people find their peace going to drugs 893 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: and dig a little bit deeper what caused them to 894 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: turn the drugs in the first place to master pain 895 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: that they had from when they were sexually abused? So yeah, 896 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 1: well how about you and I, just two ex cops, 897 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 1: put it out there to the States politicians if they 898 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: want to have a platform for the next election on 899 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,800 Speaker 1: law and order, you want to reduce crime, reduce child 900 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 1: sexual abuse? Yes, I think that would be a good 901 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 1: platform that can be their slogan. Yeah, definitely, what if 902 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,959 Speaker 1: you suspect someone of being a sexual abuser of a child, 903 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: you haven't got the evidence you suspect them, and yeah, 904 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 1: there's no there's a lot of gray areas there. But 905 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 1: what sort of advice would you give if someone if 906 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 1: someone came to you and said, look this person that 907 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,800 Speaker 1: I see hanging around the kids at the local football 908 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,879 Speaker 1: game each week, there's something that doesn't seem quite right. 909 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 1: Or a child has made a comment, oh, he always 910 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: takes us into the toilets. What do you do with 911 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 1: that information? 912 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 2: So, from my experience, the best thing we can do 913 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 2: is the children with empower empowered children. In fact, they 914 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 2: went and surveyed or interviewed child sex offenders in a 915 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 2: Queensland prison and they asked the question, if you weren't 916 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:27,760 Speaker 2: able to complete the offense or complete the abuse, why 917 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 2: didn't you? So they asked them, you know, you did 918 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 2: the grooming, but you didn't finish, like complete the abuse, 919 00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,799 Speaker 2: and the child's resistance was the reason. Why. So when 920 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 2: a child's confident, when they know their rights, when they 921 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,319 Speaker 2: understand that they you know, adults shouldn't act this way 922 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 2: or other children should n act this way, and they 923 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 2: offer resistance in the form of no going, you know, leaving, 924 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 2: you know, don't not putting up with that behavior, telling 925 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,800 Speaker 2: an adult, then a child sex offender can't complete the offense. 926 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 1: That's huge, and it's a really interesting statistic and it 927 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,359 Speaker 1: winds it right back to where we started. You've got 928 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: to empower the kids very early. And I could imagine 929 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,320 Speaker 1: the way that they approach. It's like strengthening the house 930 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,480 Speaker 1: with all alarms and bars on the window, people, and 931 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,360 Speaker 1: a break into that. To the next house. Yeah, go 932 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,480 Speaker 1: to the next house with a child that has the 933 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,240 Speaker 1: confidence to say no, because most kids don't unless unless 934 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 1: you give them that power to say no to an adult, 935 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: because we've been taught to be compliant to adults all 936 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:31,400 Speaker 1: through childhood. 937 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 2: So okay, So the two things that stop child sex 938 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,239 Speaker 2: offenders offending against a child is the confidence and on 939 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,839 Speaker 2: the noncomplicity of the child and the parent protective parent, 940 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 2: because a sex offender or someone who wants to abuse 941 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 2: children will not pick the child that has the parent 942 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 2: where they will get found out, or they won't pick 943 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 2: the child that will offer of resistance or won't go 944 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 2: along with it. They'll pick the next child. Like you 945 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,960 Speaker 2: just said. So in saying that, how do how do 946 00:47:59,000 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 2: we do all of this? 947 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:00,760 Speaker 1: Exactly? 948 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,960 Speaker 2: We create confidence in our children. We talk to them. 949 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 2: And in those circumstances where you're in a club or 950 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 2: you're in somewhere that you know, you see something like that, 951 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 2: First of all, make sure the kids around you know 952 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 2: that you're the safe adult. You know, hey, if anyone 953 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,560 Speaker 2: ever mistreats you, does anything you don't like, you ever 954 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 2: feel unsafe, please come and tell me, because you know 955 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,879 Speaker 2: they if they don't know what to do, how can 956 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 2: they go and do it? And then the second thing 957 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,359 Speaker 2: is to make sure that person knows you watch them. 958 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 1: Well. I'm just thinking that that scenario, you could walk 959 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,720 Speaker 1: over there because people don't want them. It's a horrible 960 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,360 Speaker 1: allegation if it's an unfounded allegation, but you could be 961 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,359 Speaker 1: walking there with some confidence, say hey, what's going on here? 962 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:42,799 Speaker 2: Or hey you kids are good? 963 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:43,240 Speaker 1: Yeah? 964 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 2: Like everyone okay here? Oh what are you doing? 965 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? Just put the spotlight on them, Just just. 966 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 2: Watch them a bit, just pay attention, let them know 967 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,719 Speaker 2: that you're paying attention, call out there, and ultimately call 968 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,760 Speaker 2: out there inappropriate behavior. If you ever see it because 969 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 2: this is the one thing and we we talk I 970 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,759 Speaker 2: talk about this all the time. I had, you know, 971 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 2: I have people say to me, I don't know how 972 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 2: to say not to do this, And I'm like, because 973 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,480 Speaker 2: you know, hey, my my the grandfather of my children, 974 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 2: you know, pat them on the bum all the time. 975 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, and they're like, I don't know 976 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 2: how to tell them not to do that. Hey, that's 977 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 2: an inappropriate behavior. Shouldn't do it around kids, you know, 978 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,400 Speaker 2: call out inappropriate behavior when you see it. 979 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I like that that approach, that it's all 980 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,160 Speaker 1: it's a bit awkward, like it's you know, it's just granddad. 981 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,440 Speaker 1: But no, that behavior is not appropriate anymore. Yeah, we 982 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:36,040 Speaker 1: don't do that. 983 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,320 Speaker 2: And it's and it's you know I always get that. 984 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,040 Speaker 2: Oh but you know how many female sex offenders and 985 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,520 Speaker 2: the criminologists That was on my podcast. She said it's 986 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,759 Speaker 2: actually up around twenty percent, And I was like that, 987 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,360 Speaker 2: you know, that's not one I've heard until recently. And 988 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,279 Speaker 2: and but they do the same things. It's exactly the 989 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,680 Speaker 2: same behavior as exact same things that they do, and 990 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,320 Speaker 2: we should be calling out male female anyone. 991 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,000 Speaker 1: Well, we're starting to see it. It's come out a 992 00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,960 Speaker 1: little bit more where women have had inappropriate relationships teenagers 993 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,040 Speaker 1: and different things. We're becoming more aware, but that's what 994 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,480 Speaker 1: it's all about. Like the conversation that we've sat down 995 00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,799 Speaker 1: and had over the podcast chat, Now, these are the 996 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,080 Speaker 1: type of things. They're awkward conversations. They're not conversations that 997 00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,120 Speaker 1: people tend to just drift towards because you don't want 998 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,600 Speaker 1: to talk about this, and especially if you're sitting around 999 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: in a family environment and rattling off those statistics and 1000 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: everyone's sort of looking around looking at each other. But 1001 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,760 Speaker 1: I think it's needed to be done, and there's simple 1002 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: processes that you're putting in place. And yeah, I think 1003 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,279 Speaker 1: it's good on you for getting it out there. Where 1004 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,719 Speaker 1: can people get your book? Because I highly recommend it 1005 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:45,880 Speaker 1: and I look at it from a cops point of view, 1006 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: How can you prevent crime and preventions better than cure 1007 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,040 Speaker 1: and so prevent crime? Where can they get your book? 1008 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:54,520 Speaker 1: Operation Kids Safe? 1009 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,160 Speaker 2: It's available on Amazon and Audible. So I did actually 1010 00:50:58,239 --> 00:50:58,759 Speaker 2: record it. 1011 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:00,720 Speaker 1: How is that? Yeah? 1012 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,040 Speaker 2: That was cool. It was a really cool process. But 1013 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,800 Speaker 2: after three days of recording and I think sixteen hours 1014 00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,960 Speaker 2: for anyone listening and who listens to the audible or 1015 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,239 Speaker 2: the s it's on Spotify and Audible. I sound really 1016 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,239 Speaker 2: calm at the start, and then my voice gets really 1017 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:15,920 Speaker 2: high at the end. 1018 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,839 Speaker 1: Gutsy I with my books, say asked whether I wanted 1019 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,880 Speaker 1: to do the audio, and I thought it would be 1020 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,759 Speaker 1: pretty pretty easy. But my friend Rob Carlton did it, 1021 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,320 Speaker 1: who's an actor, and I'm just so glad I didn't 1022 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:28,560 Speaker 1: do it. 1023 00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,680 Speaker 2: Really Yeah, look, I think it would have been fine. 1024 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 1: In hindsight, but there was a lot of work that 1025 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:34,359 Speaker 1: goes into it. 1026 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, it was fun. Yeah and yeah. So 1027 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,759 Speaker 2: and it was actually friends who kept saying, Christy, I 1028 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,600 Speaker 2: don't have time to read your book, can can you 1029 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:44,360 Speaker 2: record it? 1030 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,560 Speaker 1: It's a good way of taking taking the information in 1031 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: So okay, so you can get it in audio and 1032 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,839 Speaker 1: through Amazon your podcasts. Yeah. 1033 00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,160 Speaker 2: So it's called the CAPE podcast, which CAPE stands for 1034 00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:00,000 Speaker 2: Child Abuse Prevention and Education. Yeah, it's just on Apple, Spotify, 1035 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 2: all of those. 1036 00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,560 Speaker 1: And that the risk of getting you in undated with 1037 00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: people reaching out. Have you got a profile anywhere that 1038 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,480 Speaker 1: people can see what you're doing and where you're doing 1039 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,279 Speaker 1: your talks or if they want to get you doing 1040 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:14,320 Speaker 1: the talk or whatever. 1041 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. Perfect, So I'm on TikTok as TikTok cop paid 1042 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:22,120 Speaker 2: you one. I've had that profile for three years and 1043 00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,720 Speaker 2: yeah and so and funnily enough, well not funny. Sixty 1044 00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,040 Speaker 2: seven thousand people follow me at the moment on that 1045 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,360 Speaker 2: one profile, which is crazy, Like I do not I 1046 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,440 Speaker 2: just share when I think about things and when I 1047 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,240 Speaker 2: feel like sharing, and you know, people are really grateful 1048 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:42,120 Speaker 2: for what I'm sharing. And then on Instagram, those are 1049 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,520 Speaker 2: the two most platforms I use most is Christy mcv 1050 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,240 Speaker 2: just my name, okay, And again on Instagram, I share 1051 00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:53,760 Speaker 2: more information, free resources, all of that stuff. So yeah, 1052 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,520 Speaker 2: the book itself was everything I could think of, and 1053 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,239 Speaker 2: in every chapter I give age approp for your guidance 1054 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,360 Speaker 2: of what to talk about, how to talk about it, 1055 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,440 Speaker 2: et cetera. But on Instagram and that I'm dropping information 1056 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:12,120 Speaker 2: about red flags, you warning, science, behaviors, all of that stuff. 1057 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,040 Speaker 1: Well, your passion comes across and I want to congratulate 1058 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,720 Speaker 1: you on the fact that clearly you're a passionate police officer. 1059 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:21,800 Speaker 1: And when you leave the cops, I know it's sometimes 1060 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,840 Speaker 1: hard to think, how can I do something that gives 1061 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,040 Speaker 1: me such purpose in life. But your passion comes across 1062 00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,680 Speaker 1: in what you're doing now, and I honestly believe in 1063 00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:34,720 Speaker 1: the space that you are, you're making a bigger difference 1064 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,960 Speaker 1: in what you could have been in the police and 1065 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,280 Speaker 1: the police. You're helping people individual cases, but you're getting 1066 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,799 Speaker 1: a real strong message across and you should be very 1067 00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,319 Speaker 1: proud of yourself. And I'm rapped that come on the 1068 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:52,000 Speaker 1: podcast and you've taught me a shitload. So I've got 1069 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,560 Speaker 1: to get back to my kids and apologize. So it 1070 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,320 Speaker 1: could have been, it could have been a better parent. 1071 00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:01,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, if people want to hear more from you, 1072 00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,640 Speaker 1: it's all there, and get into that book. So thanks 1073 00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,320 Speaker 1: for coming across. I hope the walk on the Harbor 1074 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,479 Speaker 1: Bridge goes well for you, and I hope Sidney puts 1075 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:17,000 Speaker 1: on a sunny day. Thank you cheers. I got to say, 1076 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,840 Speaker 1: I think Christy mcveie is making a bigger difference in 1077 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:21,960 Speaker 1: the world of crime outside the cops than she ever 1078 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,800 Speaker 1: could inside the cops. She's so informative about child's sexual abuse, 1079 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,080 Speaker 1: ways to prevent and stop it, and I'm so happy 1080 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,359 Speaker 1: that she's out there doing this work because we're going 1081 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,520 Speaker 1: to stop this offense, and people like Christie talking about it. 1082 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,960 Speaker 1: Educating people is making a difference