1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: For a fairly lean period, it feels like the M 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: and A market is bouncing back nicely, with a number 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: of deals announced over the last year or so. Headline 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: deals include a consortium from the Middle East bidding for 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: Santos James Hardy's purchase of AAAC in the US. There's 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: also a US group potentially buying online real estate portal domain, 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: and a bunch of other deals or at least rumoured 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: deals in the smaller end of the mining sector. For 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: an update on what's happening. I welcome into the studio 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: this morning, Sandy Mack, head of corporate at Course Chambers, Westcat. Sandy, 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: welcome back to Fear and Greed. 13 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me, Sean. 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: It just seems a lot busier now than it was 15 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: twelve months ago. 16 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 2: You know what it does. But at the same time, 17 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: and I think this term maybe is used a little 18 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: bit frequently, but I feel it's apt at the moment, 19 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: which is this cautious optimism in the market on M 20 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: and A, and we're in a number of the transactions 21 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 2: that you've mentioned recently and so it's interesting that some 22 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: of these deals they were on foot before Liberation Day 23 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: and have continued to progress. Others have come around after 24 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: Liberation Day. But I think it's fair to say that 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: at the beginning of the year, we all started with 26 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: a great deal of optimism about what was going to 27 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: happen in the M and A market, and I had 28 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 2: predicted at the end of last year when we spoke 29 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: together that there was going to be a real resurgence 30 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 2: in M and A. It feels like that there was 31 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: a little bit of a hiccup at the beginning of 32 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: the calendar year. But I think market participants are getting 33 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 2: back into the swing of it again, and I think 34 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,279 Speaker 2: that there is now a renewed enthusiasm to do deals, 35 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: but they have to be the right deals. 36 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just park Liberation Day for a moment. 37 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: We'll come to the US. Is it about otherwise? Is 38 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: it about lower interest rates? Is it about the economic outlook? 39 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: Is it about boards just seemingly getting a little bit 40 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: more confidence about balance sheets three or four years after COVID. 41 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: Why is it twenty twenty five being such a good year. 42 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: I think it's a function of all of the things 43 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: that you mentioned sean interest rates. Lower interest rates in 44 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: particular do make a difference. And I think that the 45 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: desire to grow and certainly private equity and this ubiquitous 46 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: dry powder that we talk about all the time, and 47 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: the need to do deals. We've had a real period 48 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 2: of pent up demand coming up into this year, and 49 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 2: the expectation from all of the market participants and advisors 50 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: was that we would see this year be a real 51 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: bumper here, and I think we've seen We've seen some 52 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: really great deals get announced, and some of these were 53 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: in the making, like the domain deal in which we 54 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: were acting, they were in the making before the beginning 55 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: of the year, but others like the Santosh transaction, only 56 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: came into the market after January, so that there is 57 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 2: a real desire to see growth and to do the 58 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: right deals for the right value. I think Australia is 59 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 2: a huge beneficiary of a lot of flow of capital 60 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 2: coming in from cross border transactions, which is another thing 61 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: that we predicted at the end of last year, and 62 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: I think we are starting to see a lot of 63 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: that come through. 64 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: Okay, So that kind of introduces the idea of what's 65 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: happening to your politically and nothing is bigger, not just tariffs, 66 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: but trade policy, economic policy in the US, one big 67 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: beautiful bill. How does that ply out on M and 68 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: I in this country? 69 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 2: There is nothing mn A participants hate more than uncertainty. 70 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: And I think all of those things led to a 71 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 2: period of uncertainty. And then you combine that with not 72 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: just political and economic policy, but you have geopolitical instability 73 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: as well in all of the recent events that we've 74 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: seen in the Middle East. And I think that if 75 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: you go and speak to anyone who is a practitioner 76 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: in m and A in the United States, they will 77 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: tell you that Q one calendar year twenty five was 78 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: not a great time. They really had a massive dip 79 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: in M and A activity. Not only was it not 80 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: what they were hoping it was going to be, because 81 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: they all came into twenty twenty five thinking was going 82 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: to be a real bumper year with a political regime 83 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: that would facilitate from a regulatory and economic policy perspective, 84 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: lots of transactions, and that took a real hit sometime 85 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: in GENFAB. But I think everybody is starting to feel 86 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: much more optimistic now. It's starting to settle down. People 87 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 2: are starting to factor in some of the uncertainty that 88 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 2: comes about and have decided to just go ahead and 89 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: do deals. Lower interest rates definitely help that dynamic as well. 90 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: Just transferring that to Australia. So we're talking about the US, 91 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: they're being a bit disappointing in Australia. Obviously it hasn't been. 92 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: Does it at the margin make Australia a better place 93 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: to invest if you're an offshore fund manager looking to 94 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: put their money somewhere? Oh? 95 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: Look, I'm highly biased, obviously, but I do absolutely think so. 96 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: And I think that's anecdotally and statistically being proven as 97 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: well what we are seeing, and if you just look 98 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 2: at Sheer stats public mnage transactions, there's been a slight 99 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: downward trend in the number of transactions, but obviously transactions 100 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 2: like Santos have meant that the value of the deals 101 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 2: that we are seeing twenty twenty five is out strip 102 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four by a country mile. And I think 103 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: Australia offers a stable political regime, it offers good rule 104 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: of law, and I think it is one of those 105 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 2: places now that where you look at people wanting to 106 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: put capital Asia, the Asia Pacific region, India, Japan and 107 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: Australia are key focuses for lots of investors at the moment. 108 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: Stay with me, Sandy, we'll be back in a minute. 109 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm speaking to Sandy mac, head of corporate at Course 110 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: Chambers West Garth. Ahead of the break. We're talking about 111 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: the benefits of investing in the Asia region, including Australia. 112 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: We talked about the Santa Steele. The reason that its 113 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: share price is training nowhere near what the offer price 114 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: is is because of regularly uncertainty that in that instance 115 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: that it needs Foreign Investment Review Board. Another one James 116 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: Hardy buying ISAAC. There's a lot of fewer or over 117 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: that that James Hardy's shareholders, local shareholders didn't actually get 118 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: to vote on that, notwithstanding it's going to have a 119 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: primary listing in the US. Is this I mean, are 120 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: they just two unusual examples or is it just more 121 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: regulatory scrutiny going on at the moment. 122 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 2: I think they are two very different examples, and I 123 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: should caution you by saying that we were involved in both, 124 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: and we are currently involved in the Santos transaction, so 125 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 2: I have to be careful what I say. But I 126 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: think fundamentally that it's no surprise to anyone that this 127 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: is a you know, it's a large transaction with a 128 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 2: foreign shareholder that's looking to buy it, and so furb 129 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: will always be something that you have to navigate. I 130 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: don't think that FERB has become worse if you in 131 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: inverted commas. I don't think the policy settings. In fact, 132 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 2: I think it's gone the other way. In our experiences 133 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 2: acting on a number of transactions recently, what we are 134 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: seeing is a really willing executive trying to facilitate transactions 135 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: with in a good timeframe, and I think hats off 136 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: to the regulator for that. Every deal has to be 137 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: looked on on its merits, and you know, national interests 138 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: is the thing that will be driving a lot of 139 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: the considerations of transactions. So that's on the third front. 140 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: Azach and James Hardy completely different. And I believe that 141 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: there are some murmurings about about potentially changing our listing 142 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: rules in order to accommodate a shareholder vote in these 143 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: sorts of circumstances. You know, whether there's quite a significant 144 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: percentage of the bidder's shares being issued as consideration at 145 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: the moment, it only you only needed if it's effectively 146 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: a reverse takeover, which is a fifty percent issuance. So 147 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,679 Speaker 2: I think where we come back to is each situation 148 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: is different. I don't think that the regulatory landscape has 149 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: shifted so dramatically to make it worse. Having said all that, 150 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: we have the major clearance rules coming in in January one, 151 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: twenty twenty six which will be quite a different regime 152 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: for everyone. It's used to practicing M and A here, 153 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: and so we're going to have to adapt to doing 154 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: all of that as well. And that one remains a 155 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: slight unknown in terms of how execution will play out. 156 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: So just give me a thumbnail sketch. Not being quite 157 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: across likes saying a thumbnail sketch what that means. 158 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 2: So currently our regime, our a triple C merger clearance regime, 159 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: basically says that if it's not going to be a 160 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: substantial lessening of competition in merging two companies together, you 161 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 2: don't need a formal a tripleC clearance. We are moving 162 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: from the first of January twenty sixth to what we 163 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: call a mandatory suspensory regime. So if you hit certain 164 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: filing thresholds, you are going to have to make a 165 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: filing and get clearance. That was one of the basies 166 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: that I predicted that this year we would see much 167 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 2: more activity as people try and get the ideals in 168 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: for a head of that merger clearance regime. I still 169 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: think that is the case, but I think we're now 170 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: in the second half of the year, so everybody is 171 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 2: starting to turn their minds to what happens if it 172 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: doesn't get cleared this year, or what do we need 173 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 2: to be doing to ensure that we can get through 174 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 2: the air TRIBC framework in sufficient time to close our 175 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 2: deals next year. 176 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: So you must be close to a lot of these deals. 177 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: Do they file mostly on financial issues or do they 178 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: file on personality issues cultural issues? 179 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: Largely it's financial In my view, there are most of 180 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: the clients that we work with a highly sophisticated deal 181 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 2: makers and there is a real understanding of how to 182 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 2: deal with people, personalities and cultural alignment. I think culture 183 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 2: clashes make execution potentially marginally more difficult, but if the 184 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 2: numbers are right and the valuation is right, people will 185 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: get a deal done. 186 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: Cash always wins. So looking forward, what about the next 187 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: twelve months, what are we going to get to any 188 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: more of the same sort of thing. 189 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: Well, what I will predict is that we have an 190 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 2: M and outlook coming out again this year, so I 191 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: will have much better dimes. 192 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: Not talk of a November. 193 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll have much better data at that point. But 194 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: from where we sit right now, we're tracking towards a 195 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: pretty good year, all of the you know, political and 196 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: geopolitical instability notwithstanding, we're tracking to have a great bumper 197 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: year by value of deals. I think by number of 198 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 2: deals will probably end up better, if not, you know, 199 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: at least the same as we had last year. And 200 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: I think the key will be execution. It will be 201 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 2: you know, being really deft in your execution, being really 202 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: quick at doing deals, and finding creative solutions to bridge 203 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: valuation gaps as always, because I still think there is 204 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: a little bit of a delta between buyers and sellers. 205 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: It's not still fully a buyers market, so people still 206 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: need to get to this position where they're convincing vendors 207 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 2: that the price is right for the transaction. 208 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the Santas deal is an example where at 209 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: some point in the last couple of years, and I'm 210 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: not asking you to comment on this in any way, 211 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: it in Woodside had spoken from media reports, it went 212 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: on and on and on. It just did't never get done. 213 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: Right now, whether that's right or not, the point being 214 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: that when deals take a long time, they don't seem 215 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: to get across the line. So how much value is 216 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: there in doing the deal quickly? 217 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the mantra time kills deals. It's definitely true. 218 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: I think, particularly in public eminy enlisted company world, where 219 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 2: Tho's share prices are moving all the time. You've got 220 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 2: people treating, you've got arbitrags, you've got the hedge funds 221 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 2: in and out of the stock all the time. I think, 222 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 2: you know, getting it across the line as quickly as 223 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: possible is probably one of the more important planks of 224 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: your execution strategy in Emine. 225 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: Sandy, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 226 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 227 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: That was Sandy Mack, head of corporate at Cause Chambers, 228 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 1: westcarth This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join 229 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, 230 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: daily business news for people who make their own decisions 231 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: on chanelmo. Enjoy your day,