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Speaker 1: The number one cause of weight gain is dieting. And

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Speaker 1: the reason for that is in this Western world where satisfaction, comfort, validation,

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Speaker 1: dopamine is so easily accessible. When you deprive it, it's

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Speaker 1: so much easier to just give up and go towards

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Speaker 1: the things that are helpful. So putting a Heroin addict

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Speaker 1: in a Heroin.

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Speaker 2: Store, Buddy Linstein, Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, sir, Paul Taylor. What's going on?

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Speaker 3: Ah, I tell you, what's going on is fucking technology frustrations.

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Speaker 3: I just said to you, I was just about to

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Speaker 3: do a talk for the Cancer Concil on my internet

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Speaker 3: just completely and utterly shut itself.

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Speaker 2: Which is lovely, isn't it. When it's three minutes before

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Speaker 2: you're both to start a talk.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing worse, nothing worse. You open up an app

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Speaker 1: and then something reboots or needs to update, and it's

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Speaker 1: like worse timing.

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Speaker 3: They were very understanding, and thankfully I know the CEO

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Speaker 3: pretty well.

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Speaker 2: She's great. So we're just rescheduling, but managed to get

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Speaker 2: it up online for this podcast.

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Speaker 3: So you are, You're a nutritionist, you're a scientist, you're

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Speaker 3: an international speaker, and you're also a podcast host. I've

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Speaker 3: been on your podcast recently, but you really focus in

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Speaker 3: on the psychology of eating and particularly around emotional eating.

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Speaker 3: But let's really start from the top. Why do we

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Speaker 3: seem to have such a big issue around food in

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Speaker 3: the first place.

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Speaker 1: Oh, good question, and it pretty easily answered. Dopamine in

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Speaker 1: the short is the really short answer. We're in a

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Speaker 1: world and you are the expert of this world of

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Speaker 1: comfort and discomfort. Right, We're in a world where we

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Speaker 1: don't have to do hard things and we can use

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Speaker 1: the easy option and not be socially judged for it

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Speaker 1: and not be ridiculed. Whereas we think about, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe several hundred years ago or thousands of years ago,

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Speaker 1: by choosing a different option, you might be outcast from

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Speaker 1: the small family or tribe that you were in and so,

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Speaker 1: you know, whereas nowadays it's if you don't go out

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Speaker 1: and eat ice cream, you're the weird one, right, You're

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Speaker 1: the odd person that's doing the you know, the healthy thing.

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Speaker 1: Whereas now everybody it's sort of socially okay to join in,

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Speaker 1: you know, destructive behaviors, and everybody sort of champions you

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Speaker 1: for that or bullies you into submission for not eating

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Speaker 1: the thing or doing the thing, and so yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think fundamentally it's just that life's hard. Life is overwhelming,

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Speaker 1: it's difficult, it's challenging. People have trauma, and historically the

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Speaker 1: way in which we dealt with that was to either

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Speaker 1: swallow it or deal with it, and we might have

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Speaker 1: had to deal with it head on with a sword

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Speaker 1: or an axe, or nowadays we're so civilized and organized

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Speaker 1: that yelling at somebody or saying what you think or

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Speaker 1: releasing that energy or to talking to somebody about it,

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, just get on with it. We're busy,

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Speaker 1: we're distracted. So the way that we heal those pains

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Speaker 1: or sufferings or emotions or excessive cortisol and excessive adrenaline

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Speaker 1: in our system, instead of burning it, is that we

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Speaker 1: bury it. And often food is the lowest barrier to

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Speaker 1: entry thing that we can go towards. We can go

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Speaker 1: to the supermarket. You know, it's not like alcohol or

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Speaker 1: drugs where there's a clear line between addiction and you

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Speaker 1: don't actually need those things to live, whereas food you

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Speaker 1: need food to live. So it's a very gray, vague area.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good I mean, there's lots of really

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Speaker 3: good points that you just brought up.

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Speaker 2: But people don't have to smoke, they don't.

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Speaker 3: Have to drink alcohol, but we do have to eat, right,

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Speaker 3: and that's the thing.

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Speaker 2: And then we have more and more of this ultra

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Speaker 2: processed food, which to go.

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Speaker 3: Back to your first point about dopamine gives the brill

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Speaker 3: in a nuclear reward that, yeah, our human brand like

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Speaker 3: not all food, I mean food.

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Speaker 2: Is supposed to be rewarding.

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Speaker 3: You know, we have those that natural reward in the brain, food, water, sex, nurturing, achievement,

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Speaker 3: all naturally released dopamine, which, as you will know, a

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Speaker 3: lot of people say it's it's the pleasure chemical. It's

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Speaker 3: not really, it's the chemical of motivation and goal directed behavior.

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Speaker 3: And when you have a tim tam, you know you

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Speaker 3: have other chemicals.

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Speaker 2: In your brain going, oh that's lovely. Dopamine's going worth

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Speaker 2: the rest of the packet, right absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And I think this is a big part of the

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Speaker 3: issue is that there is so much of this ultra

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Speaker 3: process food that hits the bliss point in the brain

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Speaker 3: right where it is ay this delicate balance of either

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Speaker 3: salt and sugar or salt and fat, or fat and

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Speaker 3: sugar or salt, fat and sugar, Like any two of

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Speaker 3: those things in the right balance hits the reward pathway

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Speaker 3: and Pringles have nailed it right for all ultra process foods.

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Speaker 3: Once you pop, you can't stop.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're literally advertising their addictiveness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: But it's really interesting, isn't it, because that when we

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Speaker 3: eat those foods that just tearste amusing, they are Moorish, right,

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Speaker 3: and you do want more of them, and they're designed

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Speaker 3: like that, and we get a reward, We get a

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Speaker 3: soothing of our stress or our soothing of our anxiety,

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Speaker 3: which then reinforces their behavior.

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Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, absolutely, And it's a vicious cycle because the

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Speaker 1: other element of that is that whilst I guess you know,

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Speaker 1: do the emotional binge overeating work from fundamentally a psychological

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Speaker 1: standpoint first, there's also the nutritional element, which is this

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Speaker 1: when you put in food and they've done there's a

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Speaker 1: group of I'm going to blank on their names, but

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Speaker 1: there's a group of evolutionary biologists that have done this

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Speaker 1: work in looking at multiple species all the way down

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Speaker 1: to fly locusts up to mammals humans as well. All

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Speaker 1: species over eat carbohydrates to hit their protein quota.

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Speaker 3: I interviewed the guys on my podcast, two guys from City.

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Speaker 3: Yeah they are brilliant and Russ rush rush Back or

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Speaker 3: something like.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember their names, but.

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Speaker 1: I always to give their names.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, absolutely brilliant than that.

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Speaker 3: That showing that we all species will eat and continue

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Speaker 3: to eat until they hit the required amounts of protein.

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Speaker 3: And most of the if you look at ultra processed foods,

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Speaker 3: they are not protein heavy because protein's expensive.

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Speaker 1: Right, And yeah, well it stops you eating the product.

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Speaker 2: That's right, I say, I know, you know what, I

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Speaker 2: never thought of that. That's true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you get to the end of the bag of

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Speaker 1: a you know, protein field thing and you don't you

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Speaker 1: need less willpower to manage going back, and you're satiated.

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Speaker 1: That's so you don't go back to the for you

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Speaker 1: don't buy another one.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing, because my go to snack would be

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Speaker 3: different types of build tongue or meat stick stick because

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Speaker 3: I just tried to eat it and then you're good, right,

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Speaker 3: and you don't.

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Speaker 2: Need any more.

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Speaker 3: That's a very point actually that I'd never factored in.

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Speaker 3: But I think one of the other things, just before

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Speaker 3: we dive into the whole emotional eating thing.

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Speaker 2: And you mentioned that the way that we are with

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Speaker 2: society now I is this. It's more than an acceptance.

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Speaker 2: It's almost become an encouragement of larger bodies. And it's

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Speaker 2: well intentioned. I get it.

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Speaker 3: It's well intentioned, and it's about not body shaming. And

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Speaker 3: I'm one hundred percent behind that, right, So I don't

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Speaker 3: want anybody to misinterpret what I'm saying. But what we're

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Speaker 3: doing is that we're normalizing being overweight and being obese.

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Speaker 2: And what people.

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Speaker 3: Don't realize is the multitude of health benefits that come

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Speaker 3: into that. But it's also then that that normalizes over eating,

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Speaker 3: and to your point earlier on and and.

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Speaker 2: That that then when you get into.

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Speaker 3: That pathway, it's so bloody hard to get out up right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And and I would agree with you. Happy at

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Speaker 1: every size, awesome, worthy at every size, lovable at every size,

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Speaker 1: you know, amazing, healthy at every size. No, not at all,

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Speaker 1: And that and that number that there's not there's a

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Speaker 1: number that's going to be different for everybody, or a

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Speaker 1: set of compositions or statistics or information that will be

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Speaker 1: slightly different for everyone. But I think we deal these

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Speaker 1: days with such like on an individualistic base, the basis of,

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Speaker 1: you know, don't hurt this individual's feelings, don't hurt this person,

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Speaker 1: don't do that kind of thing, whatever it is. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're protecting the individual. But we live in a society,

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Speaker 1: and so if we don't take a societal lens or

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Speaker 1: a community focus, then we are we are blind to

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Speaker 1: the consequences and the consequences on a bigger scale. And

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Speaker 1: when we get into this kind of macro thinking, it

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Speaker 1: it's hard to relate to. So I get why people

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Speaker 1: don't think about it. But we have a reduction in

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Speaker 1: the productivity of society. We have more sick days at work,

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Speaker 1: we have interest rates and things that go up as

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Speaker 1: a consequence, we have more people that use the system

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Speaker 1: that we pay the medical system of which we all

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Speaker 1: pay tax. Are We're going to get to a point

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Speaker 1: where I get to pay less tax because I'm healthy?

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Speaker 1: Probably not right? And so there's other macro ways that

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Speaker 1: this this comes into the conversation and degrades society. If

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Speaker 1: we champion the healthy at every size and cele obesity

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Speaker 1: celebration with you know, celebrities and role models that just

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Speaker 1: and you know, even I did a podcast yesterday with

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Speaker 1: a clinical psychologist that's in this world as well. And

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Speaker 1: you know the movement on YouTube of mock bang. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you've heard of it, but it's basically it's, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's people that earned millions and millions of dollars just

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Speaker 1: eating on camera. They just they're like in the most

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Speaker 1: disgusting foul ways you can ever imagine. And it's again,

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Speaker 1: it's this public championing of bigger bodies, terrible food behavior.

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Speaker 1: And sure half the audience are watching because they're saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: this guy's like me, and the other half are watching

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Speaker 1: because they're like, can you believe this is real? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Kind of and it's like you're watching a car crash

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Speaker 3: and you can't stop, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. But this just sort

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Speaker 1: of illustrates that there's this huge movement. And you go

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Speaker 1: onto any of these videos five million views, ten million views,

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Speaker 1: you know they're earning millions of dollars in ad revenue.

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Speaker 1: But again, it's just this normalization and of a greater

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Speaker 1: number of people in society saying it's okay to be

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Speaker 1: like this, and as an individual, you do you as

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Speaker 1: part of if you're going to be part of my

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Speaker 1: society though, I think we should level up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, look, I completely agree on that. And research

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Speaker 3: can I just this week. I mean, it's research that

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Speaker 3: we kind of all get intuitively, but for the first

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Speaker 3: time they have realized, Hi, being on healthy physically damages

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Speaker 3: that bring in and your mind. And it appears to

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Speaker 3: be that all all organs sends signals to each other,

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Speaker 3: and so an unhealthy liver actually creates an unhealthy brain,

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Speaker 3: and unhealthy capancreas creates an unhealthy brain.

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Speaker 2: And it's through these inflammatory.

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Speaker 3: Messagers and other metabolic messages that actually changes the way

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Speaker 3: that the brain actually works and drives our whole host

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Speaker 3: of mood disorders. Right, And yeah, you know, I've been

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Speaker 3: talking about the interactions between the body and brain for decades,

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Speaker 3: but now we're starting to see real evidence behind the

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Speaker 3: fact that when you are unhealthy and this is this

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Speaker 3: isn't just overweight, this is unfit as well, that it

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Speaker 3: actually damages organs, and those organs can damage sense signals

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Speaker 3: that damage other organs as well.

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Speaker 2: So we started to see.

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Speaker 3: There's this knock on effect at an ecosystem level that

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Speaker 3: is really concerned because then you have neurological conditions, you

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Speaker 3: get neurine generous diseases, but you also get mood disorders. Right,

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Speaker 3: and you talked about productivity. The biggest driver of presenteeism

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Speaker 3: or disability adjusted life here is is actually mood disorders.

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Speaker 2: Depression is the single biggest, right And so that.

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Speaker 3: Healthy body equals healthy mind, we have not really seen it.

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Speaker 3: And that when your your body is not healthy and

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Speaker 3: not fit, and that that damages your organs, which then

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Speaker 3: there's this knock on effect where they start to damage

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Speaker 3: each other, including the brilliant.

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Speaker 1: Well and I think the you know, further down the

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Speaker 1: chain of this conversation of poor mental health, you know, depression, anxiety,

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Speaker 1: mood disorders, that type of thing is is the idea

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Speaker 1: that in the absence of exercise, because a lot of

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Speaker 1: people think exercise is about getting skinny, but yeah, right, well,

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Speaker 1: and in some parts of your journey or the individual's journey,

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Speaker 1: it might be about that. But the other thing is

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Speaker 1: that if we get to the mood disorder conversation and

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Speaker 1: also acknowledged it that all the chemicals and all the

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Speaker 1: terrible shit that's in, you know, in the ultra processed

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Speaker 1: food is also contributing to degradation of the brain and

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Speaker 1: the body. But the absence of physical biological resilience from

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Speaker 1: not exercising, not lifting something heavy is also a contributing

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Speaker 1: factor to that lack of resilience in the workplace or

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Speaker 1: in the environment. And then to sort of circle back

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Speaker 1: to where we were, is this super individualistic, always offended

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Speaker 1: society that has no resilience whatsoever, right, because you know,

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Speaker 1: you can probably tie it all into the same loop.

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Speaker 1: If they've never lifted something heavy, they've never done something hard,

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Speaker 1: and never's a big overarching broad term. But you understand

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Speaker 1: what I'm.

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Speaker 3: Saying absolutely, and there I am in complete violent agreement.

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Speaker 3: I like to talk about psycho physiological resilience, right, which

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Speaker 3: is this body Brian resilience. And you can't be resilient

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Speaker 3: just by doing positive thinking, Like there's this toxic positivity

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Speaker 3: shit that's.

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Speaker 2: Out there that drives me nuts.

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Speaker 3: That you have to condition the body and condition the

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Speaker 3: mind by doing challenging stuff, because the biggest benefit of

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Speaker 3: exercise is that it's a stressor and it stimulates the

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Speaker 3: body to have positive adaptations.

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Speaker 2: And that's just like the mind. And who was it?

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Speaker 3: It was one of the stoic philosophers said that, and

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Speaker 3: I'll paraphrase here, but just like liaber is good for

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Speaker 3: the body, dealing with difficulties is toughens the mind as well.

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Speaker 2: Right, But it is this.

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Speaker 3: Culture that we're in where it is all about trying

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Speaker 3: to minimize our stress and then about soothing your stress

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Speaker 3: with either alcohol, drugs or food. And I think the

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Speaker 3: issue now is that this stuff is all around us.

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Speaker 2: Everywhere, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean alcohol and drugs were always available to a

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Speaker 3: certain extent, but I think the change in the composition

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Speaker 3: of our food in.

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Speaker 2: The last thirty years is just massive.

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Speaker 3: I'll just open that up for comment from around that topic,

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Speaker 3: like how big do you think the changing composition of

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Speaker 3: the food and the ultra processed food is as part

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Speaker 3: of our overall problem?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I would say a huge part of the problem.

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Speaker 1: Percentage wise. I don't know, it's going to be different

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Speaker 1: for everyone. And fifty percent maybe it's fifty percent movement.

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Speaker 1: You know what's going in which also includes unfiltered water,

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Speaker 1: you know, the air that we breathe in cities. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole rabbit hole of detoxification to go down there.

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Speaker 1: But the food is the thing, and this is why

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Speaker 1: I'm sort of in this world of this combination of

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Speaker 1: psychology and nutrition because both of those things are things

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Speaker 1: that are within our reach to do something about, and

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Speaker 1: just as exercises as well. And we've got to eat,

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Speaker 1: so you know, unless we want to just die, we

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Speaker 1: don't have a choice. We've got to We've got to eat,

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Speaker 1: whereas the other things, you know, we've got a choice

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Speaker 1: as to whether we do or don't or you know,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. But yeah, I think it's enormous. The vegetable

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Speaker 1: oils one of the biggest destroyers of the brain and

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Speaker 1: nervous system as well.

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Speaker 3: Talk us through that, mat so there will be you know,

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Speaker 3: my listeners will have heard me say I'm not a

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Speaker 3: fan of vegetable oils. So talk us through the process

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Speaker 3: by which they can become damaging for us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. So there's what's referred to by Kate Shanahan,

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Speaker 1: who for anyone that can see the videos, a couple

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Speaker 1: of her books on my shelf over here. But she's

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Speaker 1: put out Deep Nutrition and Dark Calories. Both of them

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Speaker 1: have several hundred studies. The Deep Nutrition has over sixteen

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Speaker 1: hundred studies in it referencing vegetable oils or if she

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Speaker 1: refers to them, the hateful ache. So we're talking about

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Speaker 1: canola oil, grape seed oil, rape seed oil, sunflower oil,

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Speaker 1: safflower oil, cottonseed oil, and corn oil. And the reason so,

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Speaker 1: first and foremost, all of those minus corn are not

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Speaker 1: vegetables whatsoever. They're nuts and seeds. And that was a

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Speaker 1: marketing decision made in about the early seventies to call

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Speaker 1: them vegetable oils. And then they in order to get

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Speaker 1: any of those nuts and seeds. And if you think

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Speaker 1: about any of those nuts and seeds, if you crush

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Speaker 1: them or bite into them, do you ever produce a liquid?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 1: No? Right, So it's got to go through a heavy

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Speaker 1: amount of processing to get the oil that is in

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Speaker 1: those out of them. And depending on the manufacture process,

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Speaker 1: it's somewhere between thirty and seventy steps of manufacture, and

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Speaker 1: those manufactured steps three.

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Speaker 2: To seventy steps.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, depending on the business and the factory in China

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Speaker 1: and all Malaysia and all insert location.

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Speaker 2: Whole shit.

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Speaker 1: But that's because they're not very nice because three of

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Speaker 1: those steps include coloring. So you know, you walk down

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Speaker 1: the aisle of the supermarket the cooking oil and it's

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Speaker 1: just this beautiful golden syrups. You know, it's like it's

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Speaker 1: just amazing. But they have to color them because they're

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Speaker 1: disgusting colors. They're like sludge. When they've gone through the

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Speaker 1: first couple of steps of squeezing the oil out of them,

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Speaker 1: they have to deodorize them because they smell all and

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Speaker 1: then they have to flavor them. They had flavors in

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Speaker 1: as well to make sure that they are, you know,

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Speaker 1: consumable by humans. And of course, slapping on the label

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Speaker 1: that says vegetable oils, everybody gets vegetable, we think health.

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Speaker 1: But along this process it goes through many phases of

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Speaker 1: increased heat, far higher than you would achieve in your kitchen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and what that does to the oil is it oxidizes it,

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Speaker 1: so it denages it and breaks it and an oxygen

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Speaker 1: molecule attaches to it, which means now it's not in

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Speaker 1: a helpful form. And many people will have heard of

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Speaker 1: smoke points. And you know, you've got to use certain

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Speaker 1: oils for certain temperatures. That's because at a certain temperature,

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Speaker 1: these oils change shape and they become no longer helpful.

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Speaker 3: And that can actually be a selling point for them.

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Speaker 3: They have a high smoke point, right, And so that's

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Speaker 3: the whole thing. When they realize that transfats were unhealthy,

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Speaker 3: that oh, well, let's do these vegetables because they have.

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Speaker 2: A higher smoke point.

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Speaker 3: But what most people don't realize is they've become a

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Speaker 3: completely adultert to that point that you actually get them

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Speaker 3: so before you even start to cook with them, they

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Speaker 3: are completely adulterized. And the research shows that when you

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Speaker 3: hate an unsaturated fat, it actually gives off toxic aldehydes

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Speaker 3: at a much higher level than a model ensaturate or

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Speaker 3: a saturated fat.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: This is something that people don't really understand absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And actually many of the bottles of vegetable oil, if

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Speaker 1: you've got one in your cupboard and you're listening right now,

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Speaker 1: will have somewhere on it a line that says that

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Speaker 1: there's not a great deal of evidence that supports the

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Speaker 1: use of these for heart health, which is just wild

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Speaker 1: because it's like in the tiniest writing, there's a random sentence,

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Speaker 1: and particularly in the USA, it's got the FDA comment

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Speaker 1: of like, there's insufficient evidence to say that these are

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Speaker 1: any good for heart health, yet they are promoted by

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Speaker 1: the American Heart association all the time, and so I guess,

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Speaker 1: and then the question becomes, you know, well what next?

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Speaker 1: And then we move towards things that have been used

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Speaker 1: for a millennium. Beef, tallow lard, you know, suet, which

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Speaker 1: you know you can get off making broth or or cooking,

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Speaker 1: but you can buy it from a butcher, that type

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Speaker 1: of thing. Olive oil is good for sort of mid

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Speaker 1: range temperatures. That the place I always moved to the

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Speaker 1: space where there's the least amount of debate in the

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Speaker 1: research and with professionals, and the least in might opinion,

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Speaker 1: the least amount of debate happens with avocado oil as

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Speaker 1: the thing to cook with the hottest temperatures that you

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Speaker 1: can achieve in your kitchen. And actually there's a few

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Speaker 1: my sister's a head chef and there's a few sort

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Speaker 1: of famous French chefs that always cook with avocado oil

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Speaker 1: for that reason as well. That she follows is yeah,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't damage. And because if you're thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: French cuisine and flavor, when that damage happens to the oil,

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Speaker 1: it changes the flavor, right, It impacts the flavor. The

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Speaker 1: other thing to mention, which is going to sound a

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Speaker 1: bit conspiratorial, but there's been documentaries that that have gone

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Speaker 1: over this. But when you've got food great products that

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Speaker 1: go on the shelf of supermarkets, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: be super clear about what goes into them, and so

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Speaker 1: they have. There was an olive oil sort of test

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Speaker 1: done in multiple locations at ports in the world where

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Speaker 1: giant shipments were coming in and they were finding that

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Speaker 1: some of these olive oil fully branded olive oil glass

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Speaker 1: bottles actually had up to seventy percent cottonseed oil in them,

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Speaker 1: so they'd been diluted to save money. And that's sort

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Speaker 1: of that happened. That's happened in the honey industry as well.

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Speaker 1: It's happened in multiple industries where food grade products, you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to be again super honest or clear.

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Speaker 1: And it also can preserve it a little bit longer

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Speaker 1: because once the oil is oxidized, it doesn't have much

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Speaker 1: more changing to do, so it means it's more stable

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Speaker 1: on the shelf last longer, which is exactly why vegetable

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Speaker 1: oils are used in all of the bagger box or

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Speaker 1: canned foods that you can buy anywhere, because it keeps

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Speaker 1: them shelf stable and it does the oxidizing instead of

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Speaker 1: the food oxidizing itself. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 3: Now the olive oil, I had read that research and

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Speaker 3: actually the mafia are massively involved in olive oil. And

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Speaker 3: that's why I see the people, you're gonna buy olive oil,

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Speaker 3: which we use heaps of olive oil. We also have

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Speaker 3: avocado oil, and we have large and we have.

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Speaker 2: Gay and so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so that's I always say to people, if

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Speaker 3: you're cooking a steak, that's when you need something that

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Speaker 3: is saturated fat, right, because I think helping are people

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Speaker 3: our listeners to understand is saturated means it's saturated with

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Speaker 3: carbon bonds, which means it's more stable under heat. So

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Speaker 3: I always say to people, you're gonna buy olive oil,

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Speaker 3: which I highly recommended you to get extra virgin olive oid,

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Speaker 3: but buy Australian produced olive oil because the import stuff

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Speaker 3: is the stuff that is highly highly I don't know

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Speaker 3: if you've seen anything to the contrary about Australian extra

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Speaker 3: virgin olive oil, but that's the stuff that I tend

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Speaker 3: to buy.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully tell me that it's diluted as well.

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Speaker 1: Well. I haven't seen anything though, and I mean not

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Speaker 1: that this is possible for many people. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you and I were in this world of health. But

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Speaker 1: you know, if if the farm's somewhere that you can

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Speaker 1: drive past, or they're a business that has some kind

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Speaker 1: of shop front or open door policy, you know, that's

437
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: sort of a green flag for me, you know, and

438
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: sort of you know, we've got brands here in Victoria

439
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: that allow you to sort of go there and you

440
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: can go to the farm where the olives are picked,

441
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: and yeah, and so the more of that that we have,

442
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 1: the more transparency in the farming practices, for me, that's

443
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: a green flag. It's like if anybody can pull off

444
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: the you know, their road trip and go and visit

445
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: one of these places and see what's done. Sure, a

446
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: lot of the time we don't know what we're actually

447
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: looking at, but it's interesting. But that's sort of a

448
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: look in the right sort of a tick in the

449
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: right direction, if you like.

450
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, cool, Okay, let's not because we could talk about

451
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 3: this stuff all day, but I think I think that

452
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 3: the basic is is don't buy freaking vegetaboil. It's bullshit, right,

453
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 3: And don't listen to all the nonsense that's out there

454
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 3: that's not talk about emotional eating, so you're much closer

455
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 3: to this than I am.

456
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 2: What sort of incidents of this do we think?

457
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: Like?

458
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 2: How common is it?

459
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 3: I mean, before you answer that question, I always say

460
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: to people when I'm in workshops, you know, when you're stressed,

461
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 3: who goes for alcohol? Who goes for food? The people

462
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 3: who go for food? Is it salary sticks and carrot sticks?

463
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: Right?

464
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 3: And it's obviously not because our brains have worked out

465
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 3: to this point how to deal with stress, and my

466
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 3: brain basically goes, I'll sort that shit out. Just bring

467
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: me a bottle of wine and we're all good. Right,

468
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 3: But we have those learned responses to stress. Right, But

469
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 3: how common do you think it is amongst most males

470
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 3: and females.

471
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: I think it's more common in females, bus it's equally

472
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: terrible in men. Like, It's not like it's only one

473
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: percent of men. I think. You know, a lot of

474
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: women have challenges in that space, and there's a lot

475
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: of reasons equally men. Like, we just have to look

476
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: at the average trading Now, if we get to a

477
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: construction site upon a time, you know, in the Western world,

478
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: at least you go to a construction site and that

479
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: was the big burly men, right, That was the guys

480
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: that were jacked. They were naturally ripped. They're lifting concrete

481
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: all day. And now't you think generally you think, oh,

482
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: I'll go to a construction site and it's sort of

483
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: the overweight guys. You know, so and you know smogo

484
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: is you know, pies and that kind of thing. You

485
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: go to the Hamburgers and whatnot and cans of coke

486
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: and stuff like that.

487
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: The amount of times I go to the airport early

488
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 3: and I stop in to get petrol and there's a

489
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 3: bunch of treaties coming in and they're buying sausage rolls

490
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 3: or pies from those petrol stations and two cans of

491
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 3: v or two massive kinds of mother And I'm thinking.

492
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: Holy shit.

493
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but so I mean, and you could obviously

494
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: kick off a debate around whether it's emotional eating or

495
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: whether it's just what we've got access to, which is

496
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: a fair argument because the system's not working in anyone's favor, right,

497
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's more common in women. But also, yeah,

498
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: I got plenty of men reach out. I've worked with

499
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of men in this space, and I guess Yeah.

500
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: The reason that it is so common, I would say,

501
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: first and foremost is actually less about human resilience and

502
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: more about the system that we are a part of.

503
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: You know, you go to the supermarket, you know, you

504
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: hit with all of these advertisements and colors, and the

505
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: supermarket design is laid out by psychologists, you know, behavioral psychologists,

506
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: so they can successfully, you know, manipulate your behavior there unconsciously.

507
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: And you know we've got kids shows and billboards and

508
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: advertising with social media. You know, I am a nutritionist

509
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: that I put on my YouTube workouts which I've been

510
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: doing for years, and I still get hit with KFC

511
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: ads all the time. I'm like, my behavior has not

512
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: shown in the data in the algorithm, Like why is

513
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: this relevant to me? But I still get hit with

514
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: those ads. You know.

515
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 3: Interesting thing about supermarket layer, It's just a little comment.

516
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: I did a bunch of work with a food manufacturer

517
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: over in New Zealand. Should remain nameless, but I was

518
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: working with the leadership team and we're having a discussion

519
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 3: which I was privy to you about one of the

520
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 3: large supermarkets wanting them to produce very cheap home branded bread.

521
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 3: And there was the negotiation around it, and it was like, well,

522
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 3: if you do do this for us, we will give

523
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 3: your products the best shelf space, and particularly the stuff

524
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 3: at the end of the isles, because the stuff that's

525
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 3: at the end of the isles is the stuff that

526
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: sells the most, and those products are generally paying to

527
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 3: be placed there. Right, there's so much psychology in the supermarkets,

528
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 3: you know, and also that they know that kids are

529
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 3: often have the purchasing part, so a lot of the

530
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 3: ship food is down at kids'.

531
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 2: High heights as well. Right, There's just there's so much

532
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: stuff goes into this.

533
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: Even Cereal box design. So you'll notice that Cereal obviously

534
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: has characters, yes, because children related.

535
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: Characters should not be selling food.

536
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 1: But if you notice their eyes, often if you look

537
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: at the boxes, the eyes are pointing down right in

538
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: the design because the children are looking up right interests.

539
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: I'm manipulative.

540
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 3: Just ridiculous anyway, So we were talking about emotion leating.

541
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: So if somebody does emotionally and and I presume.

542
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 3: There is a continuum around emotional eating, yeah, you know,

543
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 3: I just I like to have chocolate because it's nice

544
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 3: to This is where I go might go to when

545
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 3: I'm stressed. And so talk us through that continuum and

546
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 3: where does it really start to become problematic.

547
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're totally right, because there's a whole dialogue around

548
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: is emotionally eating always bad? Right? And I would say no,

549
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: because culture, tradition, social cohesion, in particular scenarios, all of

550
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: those things are important. And for a millennia we have

551
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: gathered around tables and celebrated and welcomed people with food

552
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: because it's a resource, you know, because humans need it

553
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: and so it's a value, and so it's important, right,

554
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: And sometimes we get clients come through our programs that

555
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: are sort of and I'm just going to use arbitrary numbers,

556
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: but say I want to lose twenty kilograms. It's amazing, Okay,

557
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: let's do that. But then we sort of do a

558
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: bit of the emotional analysis and the Friday night pizza

559
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: night with the boys or my kids or whatever that

560
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: is that is not worth giving up. That is such

561
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: an important social cohesive memory, making happiness, you know, sort

562
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: of a situation that it's like, well, actually, maybe the

563
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 1: goal needs to be fifteen killers, right and so and

564
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: so that's going to be different for everybody. And so,

565
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: and as you said, where does it become harmful? Where's

566
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: the line on that sort of spectrum? And I would

567
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: say for most people is you know, you need to

568
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,719
Speaker 1: decide that for yourself. When does it become harmful? Because

569
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's harmful. And there's nothing worse

570
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: than giving the brain two sets of rules for the

571
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: same food, which is the idea that on Saturday night

572
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: at a birthday party, cake's okay, but Monday's not. So

573
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: it's like, hang on, so the same food is bad

574
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: and good. That's kind of confusing, right, when we're tired,

575
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: when we're stressed, when we're busy, we don't want those

576
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: things in the brain. We don't want those confusing scenarios.

577
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: So my approach personally is basically that we destigmatize all

578
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: food and we just check in with how our body feels,

579
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: like do I feel healthy? Do I feel okay? Right,

580
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: and so that we're not stigmatizing food, because when we

581
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: stigmatize food, it triggers people's rebellion. You know, a lot

582
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: of people either had parents that were really restrictive, or

583
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: they've got a partner that's restricted the way right, yeah,

584
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: or food is the only place in their life where

585
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: they feel like they can rebel and break the rules

586
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: because everything else, or another way to look at it

587
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: is food is another place where the core human need

588
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: of variety is being met. Life is I'm stuck in

589
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: my job that I hate because of the mortgage. I'm

590
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: in a marriage, it's not going well, the kids drive

591
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: me crazy. I need some I need someone else, And

592
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: so food is the access point of variety, right, And

593
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I can have a bit of this

594
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: today or a bit of that today, but the rest

595
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: of my life is Monday and yeah, yeah, So there's

596
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: so many ways in which we enter this conversation because

597
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people here emotional eating and they just

598
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: think super depressed woman on the couch who got dumped

599
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: by a boyfriend eating ice cream.

600
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, that's the stereotype.

601
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: So when we think of where this thing starts, right,

602
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 3: I think we all probably grew up with food as

603
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 3: a reward, didn't we. You know, it's that whole you've

604
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: been good, so you can have ice cream, or you've

605
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 3: been good to you can have chocolate.

606
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: How much does that play a role in all of this?

607
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: And that then subconscious association of food with reward, you

608
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: know how big is that in all of this or

609
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 3: is it just like you know, that's just is what

610
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: it is.

611
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: Well, I think I think it starts one thing and

612
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: it evolves over time, which is that it starts for

613
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: some people in that Yeah, that idea of reward and

614
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: that they've got that means they've got approval, they're doing

615
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: the right thing, they're moving in the right direction, and

616
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: maybe that they're you know, we're talking about adults now,

617
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: maybe they're trying to access that sense of love or

618
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: acceptance that they felt from their father in that moment,

619
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: which outside of that moment, he was a very loving

620
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: And the thing about trying to eat memories is that

621
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: you can't eat the part right, I love it, so

622
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: so yeah, you know, it can be the situations like

623
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: that we were trying to, you know, have the access

624
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: to these feelings which we once felt before. But you know,

625
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: we're moving in this space, I guess, of trying to

626
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: recreate it and instead we're rewarding ourself. But the reward

627
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: evolves into something new, which is life is hard. So

628
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to reward myself all of the time rather

629
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: than I did the good thing. Now I deserve a

630
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: reward and so where it started is maybe not how

631
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: it's showing up now, but it is this idea of oh,

632
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: that don't mean hit, or that particular food or that

633
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: particular wine always reminds me of that this scenario that

634
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: where I got validated at seven. But now it's got

635
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: a different meaning, which is that everything is hard and

636
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: nobody cares about me, and ever I'm ignored. And I

637
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: hear this a lot from mums because they're they're running

638
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: the household, they're looking after Hubby, looking after the kids,

639
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: They've forgotten about, and so the only time where I'm

640
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: prioritized is when the wine cares about the chocolate cares

641
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: about me.

642
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 3: Time.

643
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely no.

644
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 3: Before we get into some strategies around emotional leading, because

645
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: I do want to get into that when people have

646
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 3: an unhealthy relationship with food, ninety nine times out of

647
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 3: one hundred are going to put on wit and then

648
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: very often that the an going to go okay, I

649
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 3: need to go on a diet, and they go on

650
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: a diet for a certain mere period of time, realize

651
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 3: that that diet is unsustainable, then come off the diet,

652
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: back to their habits, and then kick the can down.

653
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: The rule for x amount of time and then we're

654
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 3: back on it. Why is that cycle? And we all

655
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 3: know these people right who their diet's pretty crap, and

656
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: then they will just go on a diet or they'll

657
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 3: go on the sheiks for a couple of months and

658
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 3: then they'll lose with it, and then.

659
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: They're back to their original diet again. Why is that

660
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 2: a bad idea?

661
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: Well, the number one cause of weight gain is dieting,

662
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: right yeah. And the reason for that is, in my opinion,

663
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: in this Western world where like satisfaction, comfort, you know, validation,

664
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: dopamine is so easily accessible when you deprive it in

665
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: a space where you haven't understood the underlying psychological drivers

666
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: of your behavior, it's so much easier to just you know,

667
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: give up and go towards the things that are helpful

668
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: when you're so it's like, you know, it's like putting

669
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: a heroin addict in a heroin store and saying don't

670
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: don't shoot up. It's like good luck, you know. So

671
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: that's how I think about it, is that when you're

672
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: on a diet, you're basically walking around to the supermarket,

673
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: you going to events, going to parties, and you're surrounded

674
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: by this, you know, this stuff that you really really want,

675
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: and so you think about it like a spring. You

676
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: know that you're pushing tighter and tighter and tighter, and

677
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: then at some point, whether it's a week, whether it's

678
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: that afternoon, whether it's three months down the track, that spring,

679
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: eventually the tension seeks release. And that's because we haven't

680
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: worked on the underlying motivators and drivers, some of which

681
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: are nutritional, some of which have Yeah, like we talked earlier,

682
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: you're just not getting enough protein in your diet, which

683
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 1: is super common. That happens to a lot of people,

684
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: even people that you know describe themselves theirselves as healthy eaters.

685
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: And then the other part of it is the psychology,

686
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: you know, and that is the why do I go

687
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: towards this dopamine? You know, when I'm not hungry, when

688
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: I don't need food, even if I've eaten a steak

689
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: for dinner, Am I still looking for something sweet afterwards?

690
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: You know? Was there nutrition missing from dinner? Or you know,

691
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: am I just so naked and worn out that I

692
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: need something sort of material? They go to push the

693
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: biological cortisole back down, you know, rather than do something

694
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: that's truly coming, which is breathwork or meditation or you know,

695
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: because a lot of the things we add in, even

696
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: though in the moment the dopamine and serotonin and that

697
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: cocktail makes us feel good, they are inevitably just more

698
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: stress on the pile of stress.

699
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: You shit later on, and then you've got regret and

700
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: all of that. I will never forget to.

701
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 3: My master's Jesus nearly twenty five years ago in nutrition

702
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 3: and them talking about a research study from Yale University

703
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 3: where they had identified that people who were on diets

704
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 3: suffer from and you describe it beautifully with the spring.

705
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 3: They are in constant high cognitive dietary restraint, which is

706
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 3: a giky academic way of saying, I'm obsessing about the

707
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 3: stuff that I'm not eating, and I'm obsessing about it

708
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 3: all the time. And eventually that obsession becomes so much that,

709
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 3: as you said, the spring just goes bull and then

710
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 3: then they're off the diet. Now, physiologically, I think that

711
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: becomes a massive issue, right because when people go on

712
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 3: a calorie restricting diet, they will lose water first, as

713
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 3: you will know, Then they'll lose muscle, and then they'll

714
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 3: lose some fat, and then when they realize their diet

715
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 3: is unsustainable, they put the water on quite quickly, or

716
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: the water will balance right after a waterless or a really.

717
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: Low carb diet.

718
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 3: But the water comes back on, then fat comes on

719
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: and the muscle doesn't come back, and then you get

720
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 3: back to your normal weight eighty ninety kilos whatever it

721
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 3: might be, but you're proportionally more fat and less muscle.

722
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 3: That means you're resting, metabolic rate is lower. So you

723
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: go back on the same habitual diet and you actually

724
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: put on some weight and then you end up at

725
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: a higher weight eventually after the diet, and then you

726
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: go through the bloody cycle again, right.

727
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: And we end up being really low.

728
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 3: In terms of our muscle, and that caused a cyclopenia

729
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 3: and nostropenia, which in themselves are horrendous. Right, So people

730
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 3: are just by constantly going through this cycle that are

731
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: actually making their body composition worse and worse as the

732
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 3: ege and then they hit friggin middle age and then

733
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: the wheels come off.

734
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: Well. In that process, you're also disregulating your thyroid, which

735
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: regulates thirty sixty percenty of its metabolism.

736
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 3: Grant points do a bit of a dive on the

737
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 3: thiret because there's a lot of people out there who go,

738
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: I put on with it because my thyroid is not

739
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 3: working properly.

740
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: Word does it all start?

741
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the thyroids responsible for a significant portion of

742
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: your metabolic rate, and so if you start sort of

743
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: pushing it to extremes, it starts to downregulate your metabolism

744
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: and the reason which makes it harder and harder to

745
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: lose weight as you go. And you know, that's sort

746
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: of the group of people that I work with've often

747
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: been on a diet for somewhere between ten to thirty

748
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: years in some variation, and each time you come you

749
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: go into a hyper restrictive calorie diet, you tell the

750
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 1: thyroid and the evolutionary sort of markers in your body that, hey,

751
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: we've been here before historically in our genome, and whenever

752
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: there's a famine, whenever there's not much around, we need

753
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: to lower the metabolic rate to save the fat that's

754
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: on the body. And this might be the person that's like,

755
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: every time we go on a diet, I don't lose anything.

756
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: You might be at that point, right, because the thyroid

757
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: and other parts of your body are sort of saying

758
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: we need to hold onto this as long as we can,

759
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: because if we're going to go through a famine, then

760
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: you know, we need to survive it. And then you

761
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 1: add back in all of the food when you decide

762
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: to either give up or you're sick of the restriction,

763
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: or you've changed your mind on what you want to do.

764
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: And then in this lower metabolic state, we've just added

765
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 1: tons of calories that are also saying to your system, hey,

766
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: the famine's over, quick, grab everything, put it in storage

767
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: so that we're not here again in this situation. And

768
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: so so that's why we gain the weight back so suddenly,

769
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: and often more than when you begin at the beginning,

770
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: and over that time you can really damage the thyroid

771
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: and end up meeting you know, drugs because you're T

772
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: three T four are sort of out of whack, and

773
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: the common tests that GPS will do these days because

774
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 1: so many people have thyroid issues.

775
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And then you're add in psychological stress into

776
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: that as well from just life in general, and in

777
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 3: psychological stress about my wit, and that then further impacts

778
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 3: hormones and all sorts of stuff.

779
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: Now, this has been very depressing to this point.

780
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 4: For the listener, right listening just to rip on about

781
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 4: how people are completely destroying themselves. So let's let's throw

782
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 4: our listener a rope so that they can clamber back out.

783
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 3: So where do you start with people ryan who have

784
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 3: issues around food that are largely psychological, which which most

785
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 3: people's issues with food are generally yes.

786
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: So simply getting them to change nothing in the beginning,

787
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: which is that you take a little bit of a

788
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: stop take of the normal life. Because the way I

789
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: think about it is if you pull over and you

790
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,959
Speaker 1: know your car's smoking from the bonnet and you don't

791
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: lift the bonnet up, you don't know what's wrong. You

792
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: don't know what we need to fix. You're just like, oh,

793
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: my car's ruined. And it's like, well, is it your

794
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: car or is it the fuel pump? Right? And so

795
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: we need to we need to figure out where the

796
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: fuel pump is in your life, which is we need

797
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: to document food that I eat, What do I eat?

798
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: You know, this doesn't matter what you eat, it's just

799
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: we're documenting it. And then we follow it up with

800
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: where was I what's the location, and what are the

801
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: emotions that I'm feeling? And many people in that phase

802
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: will realize they don't actually know what emotion they're feeling.

803
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: You know that then often not in a situation or

804
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 1: have never been in a situation where they have been

805
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: guided to feel their stuff and know what is like,

806
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: is it anger? Is it sadness, is it happiness? You

807
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: know what's going on? So we want to collect that

808
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 1: location food emotion because first and foremost we want to

809
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: identify where the problem, Well, where is the problem? What

810
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: is the problem because Saturday night cake, birthday party probably

811
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: not a problem, but Tuesday morning, Wednesday morning, Thursday morning

812
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: cake might be unhelpful. Yeah, right, And so we need

813
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: to figure out where that problem is. And then once

814
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: we know what it is, and usually in that first

815
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 1: couple of weeks of just self awareness practices, people start

816
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: to realize they're like, oh, I always eat chocolate when

817
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm tired. Well, I always drink wine wine when I've

818
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: had a bad day. And you know, we're trying to

819
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: make these patterns really obvious, and then we sort of

820
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: dig into the why the wine or why the chocolate

821
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: is the solution, and that could simply be circumvented, like

822
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: we've already talked about by getting the lunch or the

823
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: meal before correct or diving into all of the emotional

824
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: reasons why chocolate's a good idea in that particular moment.

825
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: So it's very methodical in the sense that we look

826
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: at the past, find what's broken, deep dive on that,

827
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: and sometimes, to be totally honest, that can end up

828
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: at I was sexually traumatized at five. That can be

829
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: some really heavy stuff. But I'm not one of those

830
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: people that's like everyone's got trauma, we're all broken. Sometimes

831
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: it's like, Oh, I just got this idea from Cabury

832
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: Marketing and it's happened for forty.

833
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,959
Speaker 2: Years, you know, and it's so lovely, I can't stop.

834
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes that's it, you know, and I won't even

835
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: argue that's that's sometimes more difficult to work on because

836
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: there's not much to heal there, you know. But some

837
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: of the deepest stuff we can make significant shifts with

838
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: because once we start reconciling and healing and just giving

839
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: voice to some of this stuff which has been suppressed

840
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: for so long that food we're using food to suppress. Literally,

841
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: the physical action of eating is like stopping words from

842
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: coming out of our mouth. If we think about that,

843
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: more like in a philosophical sense, we're plugging the whole.

844
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: That would verbalize the problem. And Freud talks a little

845
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: bit about it as well in regards to, you know,

846
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: the fixation that we have with the mouth and putting

847
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: things in the mouth to stop things coming out, and

848
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's some really great psychological

849
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: analyses on that obsession with our mouth. But anyway, but yeah,

850
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: so we start look at the past, figure out why

851
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 1: it's here, learn a bit of emotional literacy, and start

852
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: getting people to connect with emotions and understand their emotions

853
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: and give sort of labels to their emotions, which helps

854
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: people feel much more in control of themselves if they

855
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: can identify what is happening inside me.

856
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 2: That near it to temid thing.

857
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 3: Right, we're acknowledging an emotion and actually saying to you

858
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 3: either saying out loud if there's not people around here

859
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 3: going to think you're bonkers, or just saying it in

860
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 3: your head what emotion you're actually feeling. Actually reduces the

861
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 3: intensity of the emotion.

862
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,959
Speaker 2: Right, So I love that.

863
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 3: You bring that in and then around the whole built environment, right,

864
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 3: what are your tips around out? They'll give you a

865
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 3: little story just to give you a bit of time

866
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 3: to think about this, because these.

867
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 2: Questions are not scripted at all. Right, we're free wheeling.

868
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 3: But years ago when I was boxing, and my longstanding

869
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 3: issue never really been an issue with food, but alcohol

870
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 3: being arison ex military, right, which again gives you an

871
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 3: excuse to do the stuff that you shouldn't really be doing.

872
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: But alcohol was the thing that I really had to

873
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 3: cut down. And I found that changing the way that

874
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,479
Speaker 3: I walked home was really important because I would walk

875
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 3: home past Dan Murphy's and there would be times that

876
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 3: I'd be walking home. I even had a boxing training

877
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 3: session feeling really good, and I'm walking home when I

878
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 3: walk passed by Murphy's and then all of a sudden,

879
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 3: I find myself walking out of the shop with a

880
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 3: bottle of wine without even thinking about it. Right, So

881
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 3: that habit chill thing. And then I took it a

882
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 3: step further of just getting alcohol out of the house,

883
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 3: and then it became a kes of, well, if I

884
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 3: want to drink, I've got to really really want to drink,

885
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: because I've actually got to go out of the house

886
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 3: and go and get it. And I would only buy

887
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 3: enough for that evening, right, so that kind of lands

888
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 3: in that's leading the wetness a little bit. Around strategies

889
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 3: for people around their built environment to help them to

890
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 3: manage food. What sort of things do you do or recommend.

891
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly what you described is changing the way that

892
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: you walk home, changing the way that you drive to

893
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: and from work. You know, if you drive home past

894
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: KFC and you smell that, you smell it and you're

895
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: just like, oh, you know what, amazing, let's go when

896
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: you're tired and worn out, you know, you've got to

897
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: go a different way. Maybe even things like changing up

898
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: the way that your house is laid out. And I

899
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: know that sounds silly, but if you've been in the

900
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: same house and same environment where the problem happens for

901
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: twenty five years or even three years, it might simply

902
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: be rearranging the lound room, you know, so that you're

903
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: psychologically it's a different space. It's a new chapter. We've

904
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: changed something. I like that.

905
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: That's cool.

906
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that extension goes to the bedroom. It even

907
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: goes to And this is like a big concept or

908
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: like a big step. But some people, during this process

909
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: of going through the work that I do, a lot

910
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: of it is sort of reclaiming themselves is that they've

911
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: been violating their boundaries and not respecting themselves for a

912
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: long time. And what comes with that sometimes is the

913
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: cutting out of family members or people that are really destructive,

914
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: that are, you know, not being nice to you. And

915
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: sometimes that can lead to people finding their voice and

916
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 1: saying something they've never said to someone for twenty years.

917
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: And you know, because now we're pack animals and fundamentally

918
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: we want to have a sense of belonging because that

919
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: means evolutionary safety, survival. And so once you build up

920
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: a bit of courage, and also you're starting to identify

921
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 1: your values with a new group of slightly healthier people,

922
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: you might think, oh, I actually don't need that person

923
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: that's been, you know, by whoever it's been bringing me

924
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: down my entire life or telling me that I'm awful

925
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: or that good things will never happen to me, or

926
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: my abusive husband or you know, and sometimes they're the

927
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: reasons why we're eating, you know, is that we're just

928
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,439
Speaker 1: perpetuating the information or the belief that they've pumped into

929
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: our head. So rearranging our physical location, the relationships of

930
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: life that might need attention as well, because that just

931
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: there's another layer of our environment, could be finding a

932
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: new job. You know, maybe you're unexcited, you hate your job,

933
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: and so the excitement you get is at you know,

934
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: ten am and three pm when everybody walks down to

935
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: get coffee and cake. You know, that's the excitement of the.

936
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 2: Day, right, yep yep.

937
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 3: Another interesting little tip is to put healthy food right

938
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 3: at the front of the fridge and the pantry, because

939
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 3: the research shows you're much more likely to reach to

940
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 3: eat the first thing that you actually see. So hiding

941
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 3: this that you know, ideally you'd have most of that

942
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 3: shit out of your house. And by the way, stop

943
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 3: fregging blaming your children for your compulsion of buying shit food.

944
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:46,919
Speaker 2: Oh, I buy it for the kids. The kids don't

945
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 2: frigging need it any more than you do.

946
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 3: Right, there's so many people, Oh, I'm buying this for

947
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 3: the kids, but it's actually they're buying it for them,

948
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 3: but they're just justifying it for the kids.

949
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: So well, the other just one other little thing I

950
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: was going to mention the food thing in the fridge,

951
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: is that a lot of people associate healthy with boring.

952
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: You have to put a little bit of time and

953
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 1: energy into figuring out two three four meals two three

954
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: four snacks that are genuinely delicious. Thing, Yeah, you look

955
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: forward to eating like you you put it in your

956
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: mouth and you're like, oh, like this is awesome. I

957
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: love this and it's healthy. How amazing is that? You know? Yeah?

958
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's a very good strategy actually, because if

959
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 3: we do still need to enjoy our food, right, that's

960
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 3: the key thing. You can't live a life eating bland stuff.

961
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 3: Well you can't, but you've probably got authorexia, which is

962
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 3: another different conversations. So high then, So that's a little

963
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 3: bit of guidance around people setting up the built environment.

964
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: There's lots you've.

965
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 3: Talked about about really understanding the levers. A couple of

966
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: things I want to talk about.

967
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: Now.

968
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 2: You did mention the word values.

969
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 3: I'm massive on this one, and look for me to

970
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 3: again to to to throw out the alcohol example.

971
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 2: The one thing that has massively.

972
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 3: Lowered my alcohol consumption to the point where I might

973
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 3: have to give up my Irish passport is connecting to

974
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 3: the value of authenticity. So being authentic is a dig

975
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 3: beheld value of mind. I talk about a lot of

976
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 3: this stuff in front of people, but For me, it's

977
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 3: about I can't stand up and talk about the stuff

978
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 3: if I'm not doing the behavior.

979
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 2: So for me, it's being authentic.

980
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 3: Is the stuff that drives me to get out of

981
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: bed at half past five in the morning, like I

982
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 3: did this morning, jump into my freezing cold swimming pool

983
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 3: before getting on call.

984
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: Right, But it's also.

985
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 3: That authenticity was the stuff that actually made me significantly

986
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 3: cut down. So what do you How much do you

987
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,959
Speaker 3: do on values and do you have any guiding principles

988
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 3: for people around unlocking their values and helping focusing on

989
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 3: those and on their journey.

990
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, except we do it through a lens of motivation.

991
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that when I

992
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: get people to do at the beginning is to do

993
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: it sort of a hierarchy or a pyramid sort of

994
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 1: if you imagine a pyramid of a hierarchy of motivations.

995
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: And the way that I think about it is that

996
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: some days you'll wake up and you'll want the abs,

997
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: you know, you want to lose weight, and you're like, today,

998
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to the gym because yeah, I want to

999
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: look good, I want to look hot, you know, I

1000
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: want to have some good sex. Whatever it is, you know,

1001
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: and for the woman it might be something similar, or

1002
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 1: it might be I want the bikini body. Let's go,

1003
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 1: and then you'll wake up tomorrow and you know and

1004
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: be like, you know what, fuck the ABS, I don't care, right,

1005
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: And so this hierarchy of priorities is that the idea

1006
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 1: here is that on the day that priority one doesn't

1007
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: work or motivation one doesn't work, is that you go

1008
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: to the next layer of depth. And for me, so

1009
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: the thing one is like fit, healthy, attractive body, right,

1010
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: that I'm proud of and that other people can look

1011
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: at and be like, oh, MATI is a fit guy. Right.

1012
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: And layer two when I'm like, who cares about abs?

1013
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: Like it's you know, that's so superficial, Matti, like get deeper.

1014
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 1: But day two is about my mental health, right yeah.

1015
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: And it's like it's like, Okay, sure, don't care about

1016
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: apps today, but I know that for long periods of

1017
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: time of not physically exercising, I can go to some

1018
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: pretty dark places in my head and so awesome. Then

1019
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: level three might be you're the host of the how

1020
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: to Not Get Sick and Die podcast, like you can't

1021
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: be seeing which is the authenticity one, right, Yeah? And

1022
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: So this is what I get people to do is

1023
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: layers of motivations. And it's like, when the other five

1024
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: motivations don't work, what gets you out. It might not

1025
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: be a weight loss, right, that's yeah. It might not

1026
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 1: be weight loss. It might not be mental health that day,

1027
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: but it might be that if I don't do this

1028
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: for my kids, I'm going to have sick kids. You

1029
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: know that'll die young. Right, But another day it might

1030
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: be the weight loss that gets you motivated.

1031
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 3: Classic self determination theory by Dakie and Ryan right crossing

1032
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,240
Speaker 3: the Threshold of autonomy.

1033
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 2: I'll tell you a little story on this one.

1034
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 3: The best one I've ever seen is that some leady

1035
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 3: stopped me in the street years ago and grab me

1036
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 3: and went Paul Taylor, and she went, you made me

1037
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 3: cry in front of about three hundred people. And I

1038
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 3: started apologizing and she's like, no, no, no, it's all good.

1039
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 3: And it turns out she'd work for a big life insurer.

1040
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 3: I'd done a workshop and we were talking about behavior change,

1041
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 3: health behavior change, and I asked if there was anybody

1042
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: who was struggling to change the behavior and was happy

1043
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 3: to do role play, and she jumped straight up, and

1044
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 3: so went me, and I went, okay, so what behavior

1045
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 3: you want to change? And she said I want to

1046
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 3: stop smoking. I'm like, okay, why is that important to you, right?

1047
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 3: And she said because it's not good for my health.

1048
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 3: And then I dug and I dug and I dug

1049
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 3: and then she just burst into tears and she said,

1050
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 3: my two kids, who are eight and six, came into

1051
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 3: my room last week in floods of tears because the

1052
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 3: eight year old saw on ad for her own TV

1053
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 3: that says smoking causes lung cancer. And she said they

1054
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 3: had been to my mother's funeral three months ago and

1055
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 3: somebody had talked about her dying of lung cancer. So

1056
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 3: the eight year old made the connection told this little brother,

1057
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 3: mom's going to die. And they both came into the

1058
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 3: room and going, Mum, we don't want you to die.

1059
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 3: And I said to her, bingo, there's your why, because

1060
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 3: I was talking about finding your why, right, And I said,

1061
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 3: you need to remember that every single day, right, and

1062
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:10,760
Speaker 3: get up in the morning.

1063
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 2: Go just for today, I'm not going to smoke and

1064
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 2: remember your why. And you know, she showed me.

1065
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 3: She tattooed her foot and it said remember your why,

1066
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 3: and she had the insieles of her two little boys.

1067
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 3: And she said she she tweaked what I'd advised her.

1068
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,760
Speaker 3: And she said she'd stand in the shower every day

1069
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 3: in the morning and she'd look at her foot and

1070
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 3: she'd go, just for today, I'm not going to smoke.

1071
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 3: And she said she started wearing open top shoes to work,

1072
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 3: and she made a deal she was allowed to smoke

1073
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 3: if she looked at her foot first. And she said,

1074
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 3: on at least one hundred occasions she went for the cigarettes,

1075
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 3: remembered her deal, and that's when she looked at her foot, right,

1076
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 3: And that's so impressive, right, So tattoos people, tattoos by

1077
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 3: the way ahead if you want to change your behavior.

1078
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: Oh, that's alsome. And it's the same, do you know?

1079
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: But but my theory with the sort of hierarchy is

1080
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: that sometimes the core why isn't powerful enough Because you're tired,

1081
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 1: because you you know, because you're tired, because the kids

1082
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 1: are annoying, because work sucks, because bad luck's coming your way, whatever.

1083
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: So we need multiple that might need to leverage you

1084
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 1: up to sort of be like, all right, with a

1085
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: bit of this and a five percent of that one

1086
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: and ten percent and fifty percent. Yeah, all right, I'll

1087
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:22,399
Speaker 1: do the healthy thing.

1088
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes you probably don't need to roll out

1089
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 3: to big guns, right, sometimes your first level one.

1090
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: That's why I really like what you're saying about having

1091
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 2: that that hierarchy of motivations because it's different levers that

1092
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 2: you can pull at different times.

1093
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 3: Okay, so big question. I know with what we don't

1094
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 3: have much left, But I got to ask you this

1095
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 3: million dollar question. So many people self sabotage. What are

1096
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 3: some of the things that people can do to help

1097
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 3: them not to self suppotize?

1098
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 2: And why do we do it?

1099
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: That's that is the million dollar question. Why do we

1100
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: self sabotage? Why does any human do anything that's not

1101
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: helpful for themselves? Right? Because any animal that is not

1102
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 1: under human control is one hundred percent looking after themselves

1103
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: or the tribe, right, So we're one of the only

1104
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: animals that's self destructive in that way. But I think

1105
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: there's a lot of psychological reasons why we do it.

1106
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: Some people grow up with the narrative that they're you know,

1107
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: they're not good enough. Yep, Yeah, that's a huge one.

1108
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can be social. I can't be seen to

1109
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: be doing too well Australia is really bad for toppy syndrome.

1110
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: So we bring ourselves back down, you know, we want

1111
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: to make sure that again we belong and we fit

1112
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 1: in and that we're not judged. And if you stick

1113
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: your head up too high, you might get a chopped

1114
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: to hoff that type of thing. But I think the

1115
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: main thing is that we need to create an enviiral

1116
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: where it's okay to succeed or we're celebrated for progress.

1117
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 1: Another little strategy for self sabotage. And I'm not sure

1118
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: if you've heard anyone talk about this before, but is

1119
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: that there's somewhere in many people's core needs or drivers

1120
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: for their life is like rebellion and fighting against the system.

1121
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,399
Speaker 1: And that might have been I'm a really oppressive parent,

1122
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: and I would say that that's me, right. I'm the

1123
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: person who is naturally extroverted, like really sort of out there,

1124
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: challenging every boundary, pushing everything. And so I have learned

1125
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: that if I do not have an outlet for that rebellion,

1126
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: it comes out in my relationship, in my food. And

1127
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: so what I literally gave this to one of my

1128
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: one on one clients yesterday. I said, go and put

1129
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: together a list of ways in your life, anywhere in

1130
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: your life or anywhere in the world where you could

1131
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: actively engage in rebellion that allows that part of yourself

1132
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: to be nourished. For me, leaving the medical system and

1133
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: running a podcast called House and Not Get Sick and

1134
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: Die is my rebellion. Racing go karts every Wednesday night

1135
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: is part of my rebellion, right, And so when I

1136
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: scratched that rebellion itch, it doesn't come out in unhelpful,

1137
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: unhealthy ways in my day to day life.

1138
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 2: That is super interesting. You know, my wife Carlie's going

1139
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 2: to be listening to this and going, that's you.

1140
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 3: He's talking about you, right, because for me and then

1141
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 3: it's linked to rebellion. Novelty is a big fan of novelty.

1142
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 3: And I'm always wanting to move house every few years.

1143
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 2: I want to move house. And we're in a freaking

1144
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 2: great house a minute.

1145
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 3: And I was a couple of years ago agitating to

1146
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 3: move house, and then Carly said to me, can you

1147
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 3: just piss off and satisfy your novelty gene in some

1148
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 3: way other than us having to uproot and completely move

1149
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 3: our house.

1150
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 2: And then I realized, actually, yes, I do.

1151
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 3: I love a bit of novelty in there, so I'm

1152
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 3: finding it in different ways.

1153
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 2: But that's really interesting.

1154
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 3: Right, So, Maddie, I could go on all day because

1155
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 3: this is a super interesting conversation, but all good things

1156
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 3: must come to an end. But I think all of

1157
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 3: our listeners would have got a great amount of value

1158
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 3: out of this. So tell us where can the listeners

1159
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 3: go to find out more about your products and offering

1160
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 3: and any courses that you might be offering for the public.

1161
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, just similar to this podcast, I've got to

1162
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: show how to Not Get Sick and Die, which you've

1163
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: been on before, Paul, So whichever podcast app you're on,

1164
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: check that out how to Not Get Sick and Die.

1165
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: We're always the four hundred episodes, which is pretty cool.

1166
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: Also my website Maddie Lansdowne dot com. And yeah, we

1167
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: run an emotional binge and overeating program called Mind Body Nourishment,

1168
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: which is for anyone that's sort of done ten twenty

1169
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: thirty years dieting back and forth, back and forth, and

1170
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 1: can't figure out why they won't do the thing they

1171
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: know that they should. So we help help that kind

1172
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: of person man or women. So feel free to reach

1173
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: out