1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Gadigall people of 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 2: Sister picks up the phone and basically says, I have 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: your brother Nigel with Amandolind out. We're demanding one point 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: five million dollars each US so three million dollar ransom demand. 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: If you don't pay within the next twenty four hours, 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 2: we'll execute them. 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Headgame. 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 4: My yesterday is Nigel Brennan, who survived being kidnapped in 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 4: Somalia two thousand and eight, was working as a photojournalist 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 4: to hear part one of this incredible story. I'll drop 13 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 4: the link in the show notes. Here's the second half 14 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 4: of my conversation. 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 3: With Nigel Brennan. 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 4: Did they think that it was a frank? What was 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 4: the reality back home when they got that phone call? 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 2: So, I hadn't told any of my family what I 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 2: was doing, so I'd literally told two mates I went 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: to university that what I was about what I was 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 2: planning to do. So I told mom I was going 22 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 2: to Kenya. Somm was like no, no, Nigel's in Kenya, 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: He's not in Somalia, and I think nat my brother 24 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: grabbed an Atlas and you know, obviously I opened up 25 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: Africa and was like, look, mom, Somalia. 26 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 3: Is right next to Kenya exactly. 27 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: And the fact that they'd said Amanda's name, and I 28 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: obviously had relationships with Amanda a few years earlier. They 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: were like, yeah, basically all the dots coming to other together. 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: This is the likelihood is Nigel is in Somalia with Amanda. 31 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 4: And when was the first time that the Australian Embassy 32 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 4: was informed? Was it shortly after did your family call 33 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 4: the Australian Embassy? 34 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: My family called I believe Department of Foreign Affairs and 35 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: Trade directly after that uncle and said, We've just received 36 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: a phone call saying that Nigel's been kidnapped. And I 37 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 2: believe Defat's response was, we cannot either confirm or deny 38 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: whether Nigel has been kidnapped or not. 39 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 3: Wow, So yeah they knew. 40 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: Which again was I think the cat mouse with the 41 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: family and the Australian government that went on for the 42 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: next twelve months, which from my point of view, coming 43 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: home and saying what my family had to deal with 44 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: in terms of dealing with the Australian government. Was really frustrating? 45 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 3: Was it? So? Straight away Amanda gets sexually assaulted? What 46 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 3: happens to you? Does anything like that happen to you? 47 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: Not? 48 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 3: Any beatings any. 49 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 2: No beatings basically mock executions. 50 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 3: Nope. 51 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: During the abduction, we won't blindfolded or anything like that. 52 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: Just the fear, I think is someone coming in with 53 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: an AK forty seven and sort of sitting it on 54 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 2: the lap pointing at you and morning information. Obviously five 55 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 2: months into Ara or do we escape? 56 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 3: Tell me about that? Wow? Wow? 57 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 4: So I talk about conjuring up a plan. Maybe due 58 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 4: to my training, I started straight away. 59 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 3: So after a. 60 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 4: Few months, you obviously get to know the guards, you 61 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 4: get to know the location, You get to know a 62 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 4: bit of a routine. 63 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 3: Yep, how does that pan out? 64 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 4: And when do you decide right, it's time to get 65 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 4: out of here? 66 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: The escape came around really after our three colleagues had 67 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: been taken out of the house and never returned. So 68 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: let me go back a little bit. Amanda and I 69 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: convert to Islam after ten days as a survival technique. 70 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: I guess we were kept together for the first two months, 71 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: and then we're actually separated after two months. Their reasoning is, 72 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: as a Muslim man and a woman that are unmarried, 73 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: we shouldn't be sharing the same room. It's a way 74 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: for them to conquer and divide. I think apply them 75 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: more pressure. Some of my concern for a man to 76 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: sort of INTENSIFIESE at that stage because I'm not in 77 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: a room and I can't protect her. During the next 78 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: three months of our separation, she's taken out twice and 79 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: they basically do mock execution before they put her on 80 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: the phone. 81 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: So she's getting the brun of everything. 82 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 4: Basically, yes, and it's always pick one. It's a technique 83 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 4: that they use. They always pick one to try and 84 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 4: break the other down. 85 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think the reason I'm guessing at this, but 86 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 2: when we were first taken in the kidnap for ransom 87 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: world extortion response, Well, we talk about I guess putting 88 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,679 Speaker 2: a safety net under hostages, like offer a small amount 89 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 2: of money to keep hostages safe. So my dad had 90 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 2: basically put twenty five thousand dollars straight on the table. 91 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: So when the head guys used to come in and 92 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 2: talk to me, they would say, your situation is good, 93 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 2: stray and government is working with this Canadian government's causing problems. 94 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: So I think the kidnappers had sort of used that 95 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: as a way to really apply pressure to Amanda and 96 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: her family. 97 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 4: And also show you know, if you play ball, this 98 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 4: how you get treated. If you don't, then this is 99 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 4: how you get treated. Absolutely is a massive head game, 100 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 4: massive head head fun, should we say, it's messes with 101 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 4: your mind and you know, almost to the point where 102 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 4: you know you want to be on your side, right. 103 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're separated. I think Amanda and I were allowed 104 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: to sit together on two occasions. I think the first 105 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: time was for about four hours. The next time was 106 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: for two hours. And as a I guess as a 107 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: hostage or a prisoner, you work out very quickly ways 108 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: of communicating when you're separated, and you know, started through 109 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: knock codes, and we were leaving little messages for each 110 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: other in the toilet in the back bathroom that we 111 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: shared in this house. But you do get into a rhythm. 112 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,559 Speaker 2: We were sort of moved every four to six weeks 113 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: to a different house, and we were somewhere in the 114 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: north of mogad Issue, so there was always a routine 115 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: on how we are moved stage at Abdy and the two 116 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: drivers are still in the house. They're being sort of 117 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 2: kept in another room in complete darkness. I can see 118 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: them from our room occasionally and sort of wave, and 119 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: he's Abdy sort of saying, where's the money? Oh? 120 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 3: Really, well yah, thinking about himself. Pay now so we 121 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 3: can get the hell out of it. 122 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. 123 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: So I'd always like, we talked about escape, and I'd 124 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: been looking at the house that we're in and it's like, 125 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: is there a way of getting out? And you know, 126 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: you've got a two foot high wall with razor wire 127 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: on it, that's not a possibility. I'd looked. I'd been 128 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: able to sort of sneak out of my room. We 129 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 2: were never locked in our rooms. The doors were always 130 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: shut and you just had guards that would sort of 131 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: roam occasionally, so you never sort of really knew when 132 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: they were going to come past. So I looked in 133 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: the kitchen, could see up into a manhole and could 134 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: see that the tin roof and was like, maybe we 135 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: can punch our way through there and do a bolt. 136 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 2: And it's like, well, no, that's going to be too noisy. 137 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: But Amanda and I had discussed, I guess, particularly after 138 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: her I guess, fake assassination, some sort of things that 139 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 2: they've done on her, the possibility of escaping, and for 140 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: me it was like, well, again, didn't feel ethically right 141 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: for the two of us to get out, and the 142 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: three Somarians would end up as collateral damage potentially, So 143 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: once they were taken out of the building one night, 144 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: next morning, Jamal, one of our young captors, came in 145 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: and I said, where's Abdi, where are the two drivers, 146 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: And he'd explained that they had been released back to 147 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: their families. And every morning our windows were open, and 148 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: Amanda and I used to knock up the wall to 149 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: come to the window so that we could communicate with 150 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: each other secretly in quiet voices, and both of us 151 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: were really excited, sort of saying, oh, this is great, 152 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: like finally something's starting to happen. If they've released them, 153 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: this is a good sign. And again, yet your head 154 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: starts to play tricks on you, and it's like, well, 155 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: hang on. If they were released and their locals, they 156 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 2: would know where we're being held, and the group would 157 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 2: probably want to move us fairly quickly so that we're 158 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: in another location. And captors didn't seem in any sort 159 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 2: of rush to nervous, so then it's like, you know, 160 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: you start overthinking things. And then another young captor came 161 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: in who terrified me. This young guy absolutely scared the 162 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: shit out of me. And I said to him, I said, oh, 163 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: it's great news that Abdy's and the other guys have 164 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: been released to their family. And he laughed in my 165 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: face and he said, who told you that? And I said, 166 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: Jamal And he said, well, Jamal alighted. He said they 167 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: were handed over to al Shabob last night and this 168 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 2: morning all three of them were beheaded for working with 169 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 2: for working with Westerners. And again it's that. 170 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 3: Mine game mind. 171 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: Game, like it's like and by that stage, like the windows, 172 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: our windows had been closed, so I couldn't communicate with 173 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: a Manda. But you know, for the next fourteen hours, 174 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: it's just like that's probably the Yeah, those guys are 175 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: no longer here. Let's basically just so. 176 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: You forged your plan to escape it. 177 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: Actually it went really well to start off with. So 178 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 2: where Amanda was bang held in her room, she looked 179 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: straight down the hallway to where our guards were situated 180 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: on the front ferranda, and her eyesight was obviously quite poor, 181 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: but with a little pin hole in the middle door 182 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: she could see down to the front. So whenever we 183 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: wanted to go to the toilet, we had to bang 184 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 2: on our door and wait for a guard to come 185 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: and basically, so, yeah, you can go. So by this 186 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: stage I'd learn a little bit of Arabic. I'd learned 187 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 2: some Somali just you know, please, thank you. Can I 188 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: go to the toilet? Can I speak to this person? 189 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: Can you please help me? I had learned a couple 190 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: of sewers of the Koran, how to say the profession 191 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: of faith, those sorts of things. So I'd been looking 192 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 2: at our bathroom and it was about six foot off 193 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: the ground. Obviously best of brick sort of blocks, but 194 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: the lattice style ones that you could look through that 195 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: they use in Africa. Had looked at that and could 196 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: just see it was dabbed with mortar on the corners. 197 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 2: The problem was there was these five metal bars running 198 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 2: across in front of them. So I thought, I'll jump 199 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: up on one of those bars and pull myself up 200 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: onto the window. And as I jumped up, the whole 201 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: thing sort of slid. So I was like, oh, it's 202 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: not cool, field like that move. So I basically sort 203 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 2: of quietly pushed and pulled it until I could see 204 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: the end of the metal, and then bent the piece 205 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: of metal and could get it out, And I said 206 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 2: to Amanda, went back and knocked on the door and 207 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: we went to the window. I said, right, I got away. 208 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: I need you to be my eyes and ears. So 209 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 2: I'm basically going to sneak out of the room. If 210 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: you see someone coming, you bang on the door so 211 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: that we want to go to the toilets. I had 212 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 2: a little pair of ail clippers with one of the 213 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: little files that came out at the end, and over 214 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: the next two and a half days basically chiseled out 215 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: this mortar, took out two of the bars, went back 216 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: after two and a half days and said to Amanda, right, 217 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 2: we're good to go. What's the plant? 218 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 3: Wow? For sure? You grab her? 219 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: And well, pretty much once I was separated from Amanda, 220 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 2: I was allowed to go outside once a week for 221 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: an hour and do washing, and could obviously see planes 222 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: before they sort of disappeared behind the wall. And thought 223 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 2: that must have been Mogadishu Airport, because we knew we 224 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 2: were fairly close to Mogadishu. So I said to Amanda right, 225 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: let's go after we both agreed that we would go 226 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: after final prayer, we'd get out basically very quietly, and 227 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: then just run in that direction. The problem with that 228 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: is Mogadishu streets aren't like normal Western streets that are 229 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: nice and long that it's like a rabbit warren. So 230 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 2: I said to Amanda, basically, after final prayer, you knock 231 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: on the door, I'll follow you out truck and trailer 232 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 2: into the bathroom. I'll take out the bars, take out 233 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: the blocks, and bang week and slip out. So first attempt, 234 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 2: get the blocks out, get the bars out, push Amanda 235 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 2: up onto the ledge of the window, and she's contorting herself, 236 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: and she turns around. She says, I can't fit, and 237 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 2: I'm just like, fuck yeah, fuck you got to you 238 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 2: gotta get out, like this is our chance. And realize 239 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: that she can't fit, like I need to out another 240 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 2: bar and it's too noisy, So send Amanda back to 241 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: her room. And then so I'm sitting in this bathroom 242 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: looking at this gaping hole in the wall and knowing that, 243 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 2: you know, one of the guards could walk into the 244 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: bathroom at any stage. Then over the next four hours, 245 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: I basically feign that I have diarrhea and that I 246 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: need to go to the bathroom again and again as 247 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 2: I rebuild the best of book We're all and put 248 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: the rods in. Finally do it, fall asleep, have the 249 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 2: best night's sleep of my entire captivity, and wake up 250 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: in the morning, go and basically remove them another bar 251 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 2: without ovn Amanda knowing, and then said, right, got a 252 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 2: new plan because she had explained that whilst they were 253 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 2: taking her out on one of those fake assassinations. She said, 254 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: basically the streets were lined with mass you know, with 255 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: guys with AK forty seven's And I was like, we're 256 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 2: going to literally get out of the house and run 257 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: straight into potentially al Shabob or something like that. And 258 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 2: I said, look, we're Muslim. There's a mosque right on 259 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: top of us. Because the call to prayer was so loud, 260 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 2: I said, if I was in a West country and 261 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 2: I couldn't go to the police, I'd go to a 262 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: church because hopefully you'd find people there that would help you. 263 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 2: So I said, today's Thursday, tomorrow's Friday, busiest day of 264 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 2: the Muslim week. Let's go on Friday. And she said, 265 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: love the idea but what happens if they're nervous Tonight? 266 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: I was just like, fuck you, yeah, that seed of doubt? Yeah, 267 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 3: why did you put it there? 268 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: So I said, right, let's go midday today. We'll go 269 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 2: same thing. Basically, follow her out into the bathroom, throw 270 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: all the blocks out, throw the three bars out, watch 271 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: her disappear. I jump out, throw our bags out, throw 272 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 2: my shoes out, get onto the ground, pulling on my shoes, 273 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 2: and like, I'm thinking we're going to have a minute 274 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: or two head start, and this kid next door basically 275 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: starts screaming in Somali, and I literally pull on my shoes, 276 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 2: put on my my camera bag, and run and again, 277 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 2: like my brain just goes to complete mush. And so 278 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 2: we're sort of in between two houses, our house in 279 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: the next door neighbor's house, which I could have touched 280 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: putting a hand through the window. Run down between the 281 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: two houses. No turning left will take us back to 282 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: the front gates of our compound, so the only option 283 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: is to turn right. And I just literally it's like 284 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 2: I'm running on air. I just sprint. I have no 285 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: idea where Amanda is. Come past our next door neighbors compound. 286 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: I look over my shoulder and I can see this 287 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: guy standing at his front compound gate and he says 288 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: in English, what are you doing? And I just keep running. 289 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: You know, it computes, but I don't respond. I get 290 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 2: to a teener section, I can see the mosque minarets. 291 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 2: I look to my left, I can see like a 292 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: main road with lots of markets, and I just think 293 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: safety in numbers, So I turn left and I start running, 294 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 2: so not going to the mosque, which. 295 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 3: Is completely just making up asub oh yeah. 296 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: And then I hear Amanda saying what are you doing? 297 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: And I basically do a one eighty run pass back her. 298 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 2: Get to that teen A section again and the next 299 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 2: on aber is standing there and he says do you 300 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 2: need help? And I'm like, just grab him under the 301 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: arm and I said, we've been kidnapped. By this stage, 302 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 2: Amanda catch us up and we're like, can you please 303 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: help us? Can you take us to the mask? Whereas 304 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: it is like it's it's literally right there, So we 305 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: basically sprint to the mask, run up the side stairs, 306 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 2: and just as we're about to enter, there's a warning 307 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: shot from an AK forty seven behind us that goes 308 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: over our heads run into the mosque and there's obviously 309 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: men everywhere, and I start saying in Somali like I win, 310 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: I win, I win, please help, please help, please help 311 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: one a Muslim one day Muslim, I'm Muslim, we are Muslim, 312 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 2: and then say the profession of faith bism LAHI I'll 313 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: rock money him. And then two other guys, older gentlemen, 314 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: Somali gentlemen, come over and they're speaking English to us. 315 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 2: And then the next thing, I just get king hit 316 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: from behind like a coward punch so Jamal and Abdullah 317 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 2: who was the younger angry guard or obviously seconds behind us. 318 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: So Jamals punched me in the back of the head. 319 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: He's now got me by the arm and he's trying 320 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 2: to pull me back out the door. And I ripped 321 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: the sleeve off my shirt. Amanda has a hijab ripped off, 322 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: and he's got Amanda by the back of the hair 323 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 2: and he's trying to pull her out. And then these 324 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: three older Somali men just grabbed these two young kids 325 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: who've got AK forty seven's on them, and just grabbed 326 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: them by the throat and push them up against the 327 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: wall and they're screaming at them. And then this crowd 328 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: sort of envelops us and somebody else is speaking English. 329 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: You know, who are you? What's happened? You know, I'm 330 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: Nigel Brennan Strain photojournalists. We've been kidnapped for the last 331 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: five months. You're Muslim. One a Muslim, We are Muslim. 332 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: Do you want to pray? It's like, yeah, I want 333 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 2: to pray. I've never prayed in a mosque. So they 334 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: sort of push us into the middle of the mask 335 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: and then they put us into the pulpit and were 336 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: sitting there and it's I sort of say, it's like 337 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,239 Speaker 2: the Bush Telegraph goes out that there's obviously two Westerners 338 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: now in the north of Mogadishue, and more people are 339 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: sort of flooding in to get a look at us. Yeah, 340 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: I'm pulling out my Koran. And we received a care 341 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 2: package was while we were still together. But one of 342 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: the books was A Thousand Splendid Sons and in that 343 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 2: book they talk about how Muslims kiss the book and 344 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 2: put it to their head. And I'm like, oh, this 345 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 2: is obviously what you do is Muslim. So I've got 346 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 2: my crown. I'm doing that and the Somalis are looking 347 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 2: at me, like what is this weird doing? So I'm 348 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 2: pulling out all my religious books. I got the dry straight, 349 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: you know. I think from fear and stress and shock. 350 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: And I can remember looking over my left shoulder in 351 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: the pulpit and there's a window there and I can 352 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: see big black figure and I'm like, can we play 353 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: shut those windows? Because I thought someone was just going 354 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: to stick a gun through and shoot us. And it 355 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: was actually a woman, So they close the windows. That 356 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 2: woman actually pushes her way into the mosque and comes 357 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 2: and sits between Amanda and myself. So there's like mayhem 358 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: going on. It's hard to describe, sort of just trying 359 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 2: to talk to people understand what's going on, saying I 360 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: guess the fear that's in the building as well. At 361 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: one point where everyone starts to run away from us, 362 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 2: and as they spread out, I can see guys just 363 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 2: racing in with AK forty seven's and mass faces, and 364 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 2: it's just. 365 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 4: Like, you know what, if I didn't know that you 366 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 4: were captive for fifteen months, then I'd hold a bit 367 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 4: of hope for you. 368 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 3: But obviously you're handed back over right. 369 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, we were recaptured. I think my fear at that moment. Look, 370 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: part of the escape for me was like I'm going 371 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 2: to take back control. If I'm going to die in Somalia, 372 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: I'm actually going to make someone work for it. I'm 373 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 2: just going to take a buller in the back of 374 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 2: the head, like you're going to have to kill me. 375 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 2: But I think the reality of watching these guys now 376 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: flood and it was just like this is going to 377 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 2: end in an absolute blood bath, Like so many people 378 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 2: are going to die here today, not just us, but 379 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 2: locals as well. So a man is trying to communicate 380 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: with this woman basically points it herself, then uses the 381 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: international sign for fornication and points at one of the 382 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 2: young guards, and this woman starts screaming. And then the 383 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 2: next minute I see our head guys come through the 384 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: side door with pistols and guns and stuff. 385 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 3: They sort of. 386 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 2: Walk around the crowd, come back behind us, you know, 387 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 2: getting smashed by the butt of a pistol. So I 388 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: sort of go into fetal position. Amanda gets grabbed by 389 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: the hair and she's sort of dragged past me over 390 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 2: to the other side of the mosque where there's a 391 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: set of doors. Like I'm trying to watch what's going 392 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 2: on with her, trying to protect myself, and then maybe 393 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 2: ten to fifteen seconds later, I just tear a single 394 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,239 Speaker 2: gunshot and I'm like, fuck, they've just executed her. Like 395 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 2: that's all that I can think, and the reality of 396 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: my life is pretty much I've got minutes to live. 397 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 3: I reckon. 398 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 2: So the guys that have taken Amanda come back again. 399 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: I'm kicked and punched, and then i feel someone grabbed 400 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: me by the ankles and I'm then dragged basically to 401 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 2: the front doors of the mosque, drag down some concrete steps, 402 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 2: and it was so weird. I sort of explained this 403 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 2: as a moment of clarity where I was really clear 404 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 2: I wasn't scared of dying, but it was just like, 405 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 2: I really wish I could just call mom and Dad 406 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: and tell them how much I love them and how 407 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 2: sorry I am for the anxiety and the pain that 408 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 2: I've caused for the last five months. 409 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 3: Wow, he's expecting everything to end that Yeah. 410 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: Then yeah, gets sort of picked up by six or 411 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 2: eight guys above heads and I can see the gates 412 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: of the courtyard of the moskue and I realized once 413 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 2: I'm off hellow turf, like they're going to execute me 414 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 2: get through those gates, sort of look over to my left, 415 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 2: can see the two vehicles that we're always transported in. 416 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 2: Can see Amanda in the back seat, still fighting, trying 417 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 2: to trying to get away. She's alive yet, so it's 418 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 2: just like, oh my God, like sweet relief. I'm bundled 419 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: in beside Amanda, Abdullah and Jamal, the two young guards, 420 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: jumping beside each of us. I can see that Amanda's 421 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 2: taken a punch to the face because her eyes starting 422 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 2: to sort of swell up, and she looks at me. 423 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 2: She's got this stupid grin on her face and she goes, fuck, 424 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 2: that was intense. 425 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 5: Still breaks the silence, right, yeah, And then looking at Dulla, 426 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 5: the young guy who pulls his pistol out and puts 427 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 5: it in his mouth, and basically, you know, fakes pulling 428 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 5: the trigger, and it's just like right, they're probably just. 429 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 2: Going to drive us out unto the bush now and 430 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 2: execute us away from eyes and ears, and we're taken 431 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 2: to another house interrogated for I think, you know, it 432 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,719 Speaker 2: seemed like about three hours. And then at the end 433 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: of that interrogation, a young one of the young guards 434 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 2: walked in with a bag of chains and padlocks, and 435 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 2: then they basically padlocked our legs together. 436 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 3: Things changed drastically. 437 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 4: From the moment you try to escape, you're treated differently, 438 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 4: no more mister nice guy. And then for the next 439 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 4: ten months onwards, you're living in hell basically. 440 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: So for the next eleven months, those chains were taken 441 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: off for a total of two hours. 442 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 3: Wow, so you're completely chained up. 443 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 2: You're chained up, not allowed to exercise, basically, forced to 444 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: lie or sit twenty four hours a day. The only 445 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: time I can get up is to wash for prayer. 446 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 2: If I want to go to the bathroom, I've got 447 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: to knock a cup on the floor. And it's you know, 448 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: they they don't even use my Muslim name at that stage, 449 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 2: so just that means that means I can go to 450 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 2: the toilet. So it's it's luck you become this animal 451 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 2: in some noah, noah. 452 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 453 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: At the start, they called me Muhammad, and they used 454 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 2: to be like Muhammed, Mohammed, Muhama. And I'm like, oh, 455 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 2: you're talking to me, yeah, yeah, because you're so used 456 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 2: to your know, yeah, And I said, can I at 457 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 2: least have something that starts with and then so yeah, 458 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 2: that for the next eleven months, it was it became 459 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: I guess me trying to change my mindset of I 460 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 2: think having had Amanda for those first two months, it 461 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 2: was and it was amazing to go through that experience 462 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 2: with someone. And in the first weeks I was really 463 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: negative and she was like, if you if you think 464 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: we're going to die here, we will die here if 465 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 2: that's the energy you're putting out. So for me it 466 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 2: was about, Okay, how do I take control of this situation? Like, yes, 467 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 2: I can't determine when I go to the toilet or 468 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 2: when I eat, or go outside and see the sun 469 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: and the sky and those sorts of things. But it's 470 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,719 Speaker 2: like they can beat the shit out of me, they 471 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: can threaten me. The only thing that they can't actually 472 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 2: touch is my mind. 473 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 4: And that's take away from me as a way, I think, yeah, 474 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 4: your mind? Yeah, so liberating? Is that? Oh? 475 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 3: It was? 476 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 2: And that was such a powerful thing to be able 477 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 2: to change your mindset and look when you're stuck in 478 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 2: four walls for fourteen hours a day, and that's the 479 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: way I looked at it. I broke my date and 480 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 2: myself it was like, it doesn't matter what happened yesterday, 481 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 2: It doesn't what happens tomorrow. All I can basically control 482 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 2: is what I do in the next four day hour 483 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 2: is because you would wake up at six o'clock in 484 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: the morning for prayer and then final prayer was it 485 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 2: at seven o'clock or eight o'clock at night. It's like 486 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 2: I've just got to fill the next four nine hours 487 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 2: sort of stuff. 488 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 3: What are you sleeping on. 489 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 2: A tiny little like mattress and a mosquito net and 490 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 2: basically a pillowcos filled with clothes. 491 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 4: Wow, So after sixteen months fifteen months. 492 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 3: You get released? Yep? How does it come about? 493 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 4: Is it one of those where it's just a case 494 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 4: of you get a knock on the door and it's 495 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 4: like you're going home? 496 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 3: Or did they preempt you. 497 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 2: We'd had a discussion maybe three four weeks earlier with Upmed, 498 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: one of the head guys, and he'd come in and said, 499 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: if everything goes to plan tonight, you'll be released. That 500 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 2: didn't happen. The next time I saw him and said, 501 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 2: your family has basically broken its promise. We're now going 502 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 2: to sell you on, so you're to al Shabab. So 503 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 2: they've offered to me in us. They have a bigger organization. 504 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 2: They can move you around the country, they can hold 505 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: you for as long as they want. Which was terrifying 506 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: to think that I'd created this relationship with thirteen people 507 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 2: to then go to a new organization of people I 508 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 2: didn't know. It was like basically starting from scratch again. 509 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: And then one day we so we'd then moved to Keshmeo, 510 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 2: and then we'd been moved back to mogad Issue and 511 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 2: they came in and basically said stand up, don't ask questions. 512 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 2: They tried to unlock the padlocks, and because they've been 513 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 2: on for so long and they'd rusted, so they had 514 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 2: to go and find a haxle to cut them off. 515 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 2: And I kept saying to Abdullah the young guys, like 516 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 2: what's going on, and he just said, don't ask questions. 517 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 2: Was told to strip, put on new clothes, and then 518 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: was frog marched out of the room put into a car, 519 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: and I could see Amanda in the courtyard. They were 520 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: doing the same thing to her, cutting off her chains, 521 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 2: and she was put into the car beside me, and 522 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: it's just like, what's going on. Neither of us knew. 523 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 2: We're taken out of that compound, driven to a petrol 524 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: station where they refilled the car, and Ahmed was there, 525 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: and I'd made this loose agreement, and I think he'd 526 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: done this with Amanda as well, Like there was if 527 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 2: they released us, we had to basically agree to five things. 528 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: One would be that we would pay them more money 529 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: once we got back to our countries, wouldn't talk about 530 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 2: our experience, we would never leave the religion of Islam. 531 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 2: There was and he just said, look, do you still 532 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 2: agree on those five things. It's like, yeah, here's a 533 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 2: document sign it. 534 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 3: It's like, there you go. 535 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 2: We then sort of drive into the night, pick up 536 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 2: another car in a convoy, and we end up pulling 537 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 2: up in the darkness, basically in the middle of nowhere. 538 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 2: There's a station wagon car there. We're taken out of 539 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 2: our vehicle, thrown into that too. Obviously, Somalian guys in 540 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: the front seat ask who we are, our names, sort 541 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: of identify ourselves. Phone calls made, and just before we 542 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 2: drive off, because I didn't had taken mik around at 543 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: this stage, and I said, no, no, that's my Holy book. 544 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 2: I need it because I thought we're about to be 545 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 2: handed over to al Shabab. Abdullah basically opened the door, 546 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 2: through it on my lap, close the door, and then 547 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 2: we drove off. So we're now in a car with 548 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 2: two complete strangers, drive along a dirt road, turn left 549 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 2: onto a bitchamin road. We're absolutely flying along, and then 550 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: two Toyota tray backs sort of come out of nowhere 551 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 2: with fifty kel guns on the back of them, and 552 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 2: then we're surrounded by about fifty guys in Savilian clothing 553 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 2: with AK forty seven's and I'm like, this can't be 554 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 2: happening again. Another Toyota pulls up. We're dragged out of 555 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: our car put into that, and both Amanda and I 556 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: are pretty hysterical by this stage because we don't know 557 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: what's going on. And the guy's like, why are you 558 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 2: so upset? And it's like, well, I don't know if 559 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: I said it or I thought, it's just like, well, 560 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 2: I don't see any white people. Yeah, and he's like, no, no, 561 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 2: you've been You've been released, and it's like, still don't 562 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 2: believe this. 563 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't compute, and. 564 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 2: It wasn't until he pulled out a phone and obviously 565 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: dialed some numbers and gave the phone to Amanda, and 566 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 2: then she spoke to her mum and said, you guys 567 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 2: have been released. We've finally negotiated a price. 568 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 4: Wow. 569 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 3: Avansom was paid yep. 570 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, so about six hundred and seventy five thousand US dollars. 571 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 3: Wow when that all came from your parents' pocket? Yeah? 572 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 3: Better than three million dollars, isn't it. 573 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 2: Look the other thing that when my family left the 574 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 2: Australian government, they employed a private K and R company 575 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 2: for three months and their cost was about the same 576 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: as the ransom, so it was it was close to 577 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 2: a one point three million dollar experience. 578 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 3: And did you adhere to the five rules? Any of them? None? 579 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 4: None make you out of contract. 580 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 581 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 2: Well it's funny because I've met an email with me 582 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 2: shortly after I got home and he's like, we have 583 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 2: an appointment to speak. So I just got that straight 584 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 2: to the Australian Federal Police to see if they could 585 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 2: track him down. 586 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 4: Look. 587 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 2: Out of the whole thing, there was only one guy 588 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: that was ever arrested, which was Adama guy that was 589 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 2: obviously the communication expert for the kidnap group. He was 590 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: arrested in Canada. 591 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 3: Wow. 592 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 4: And a quick question before we finish, do you think 593 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 4: it was an inside jobby. 594 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 3: Do you think you were stitched up? 595 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: I think everything is sort of it's in that direction 596 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 2: because our kidnappers said they knew that there were four 597 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 2: journalists working in two teams. They knew exactly how many 598 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 2: drivers we had, they knew exactly how many security detail 599 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: But one thing that Upmed did say to us very 600 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 2: early on, I think in the first couple of months. 601 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 2: He said, we were actually expecting two men, one of 602 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: them was French and one of them was Belgium. But 603 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 2: we knew the Belgian guy was actually an American citizen, 604 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: which was the National Geographic Team. 605 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 3: Wow, so you weren't even. 606 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 2: We weren't even. So they said they were incredibly surprised 607 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: to say a female in the car. And what we 608 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 2: didn't realize was when the morning we left, the NATGO 609 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 2: team had actually made a detour to stop somewhere so 610 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 2: we'd become the lead car. 611 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 4: Shit. 612 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 3: Luck. 613 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 4: Wow, one point three million dollars later, and how are 614 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 4: your parents right now? They're really good. 615 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: Look, it absolutely took its toll on my family. Yeah, financially, 616 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 2: you know, when you when you're dealing with I guess 617 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 2: a loved one and I think in the kidnap game 618 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 2: as well. You know, a family will do whatever they 619 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 2: can to get of course a member of their family back. 620 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: And I think their struggle was obviously dealing with with 621 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 2: the Australian government. But yeah, look, I think they were 622 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 2: incredibly happy to get me home. I know my brother 623 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 2: Han got me a big hung He said, I love you, 624 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 2: but you're a fucking idiot. And he said, I'm giving 625 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 2: you a couple of weeks to get fit. 626 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 3: And I could have told you that. I could have 627 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 3: told you that. 628 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 4: Mate. 629 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 3: It's been great chatting with you. So what are you 630 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 3: doing now? Mate? 631 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 2: So look, over the last decades I have been I've 632 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 2: worked for three of the sort of major international kidnapp 633 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 2: for rants and extortion companies. Spent up until about a 634 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 2: year ago, was also moonlighting and working at the University 635 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 2: of Tasmania. But at the moment have just gone back 636 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: to study. 637 00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 4: And do you do you have any more dangers journeys 638 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 4: or dangerous exploits on the cards or you completely put 639 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 4: off now? 640 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: No, not at all. I love traveling like I love 641 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 2: going seeing other cultures and other countries and those sorts 642 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: of things. And you know, I did a little bit 643 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: of work in Africa and everyone's like, are you stupid? Well, 644 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,959 Speaker 2: it's not all dangerous, yeah, exactly, and there's some like, 645 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 2: there's some amazing countries in. 646 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 4: The world too, and by the sounds of it, made 647 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 4: wrong place long time. Yeah, but hopefully your family won't 648 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 4: go through any of that again, and you'll be you'll 649 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 4: you'll be a good boy and you won't make any 650 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 4: rash decisions. But listen, next time you go anywhere like that, mate, 651 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 4: give me a shout. 652 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 3: Thanks. 653 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 4: Nigel Brennan is a photojournalist and his book is called 654 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 4: The Price of Life. 655 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining me on Headgame. 656 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 4: If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you're subscribed so 657 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 4: you don't miss any of our incredible stories and leave. 658 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 3: Me a review wherever you're listening. I'm Att Middleton. At 659 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 3: you again. Next time. 660 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 2: M