1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: From the newsroom at news dot com today. 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: Good day there, I'm Andrew Bucklow, and before we get 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 2: into the nitty gritty of today's episode, I want to 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: introduce you to news dot com dot US homepage editor 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: Lauren mcmah gatayls. 6 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Hey, Bucky. 7 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 2: For those people listening, they're probably thinking, what the hell 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: is a homepage editor? 9 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Please explain. 10 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 3: Well, we're in charge of the homepage. We're moving things 11 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 3: around on the news dot com dotitor You website. We're 12 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 3: working with all the reporters and editors in the room, 13 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 3: working on headlines, working on the images to make sure 14 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 3: that we're bringing you the best and the latest of 15 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 3: what we have to offer. 16 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 2: So if someone goes to news dot com dot you 17 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 2: and they look at all the stories placed all over 18 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 2: the homepage, you're the person who's. 19 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 4: Put them there. 20 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 3: Aha, I'm the one. 21 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: You're very powerful. 22 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 2: One story that you put on our homepage in the 23 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 2: last twenty four hours was one that really grabbed my attention. 24 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: It was an update on Luigi Mangioni. 25 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: Now he is, of course, the twenty six year old 26 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: American man accused of assassinating that healthcare CEO in New 27 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 2: York last December This was a massive story. There's so 28 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: much coverage about him, partly because he's pretty bloody, handsome laws. 29 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: What's the latest with him? 30 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is a big blow to Mangioni and 31 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 3: his many admirers. So US prosecutors have confirmed overnight that 32 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 3: they'll be seeking the death penalty in this case, which 33 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 3: is pretty heavy. So he's charged in New York under 34 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 3: state law, but he's also facing a federal indictment over 35 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 3: this alleged murder, so that's where prosecutors will be seeking 36 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 3: the death penalty. We didn't see a lot of death 37 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 3: penalty execution executions during the Biden administration, but Trump seems 38 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: pretty keen to bring them back in federal cases. 39 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: So I am not surprised about that at all. 40 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: We will obviously keep you across this story on you 41 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: dot com dot AU. But the death penalty is such 42 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 2: a divisive topic. It's still legal in about fifty three 43 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: countries around the world. So in today's episode, what we're 44 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 2: going to do is we're going to meet a journalist 45 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: from the States who has witnessed several executions. He's going 46 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: to explain how it works and what it's like to 47 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: watch someone die. Well, Phil Trexla is the editor in 48 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: chief of The Marshall Project in Cleveland. That's a nonprofit 49 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: news organization about the criminal justice system in the US. Phil, 50 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: thank you so much for Chattington News dot com dot. 51 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 4: AuOH thanks for having me on. 52 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: How many executions have you witnessed? 53 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 5: I've witnessed five executions during my time as a reporter. 54 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: And with they all lethal injection. 55 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 5: They were all lethal injection, that's correct, yes. 56 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: So why is it that the media in the US 57 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: are invited to witness these executions? 58 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 5: I'm based out in Cleveland, Ohio, and Ohio state law 59 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 5: requires the newspaper of record in the county that the 60 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 5: murder was committed to have a seat inside the execution 61 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 5: chamber or viewing area. So because I worked for a 62 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 5: newspaper where the murder had occurred, we had an automatic invite. 63 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: I can't even imagine what it's like to actually witness 64 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: one of these things. Can you run us through it 65 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 2: in datail? What it's like to be there on the day, 66 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: what happens. 67 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's actually a couple of day process and it's 68 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 5: all very surreal. Each of the executions that I witnessed 69 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 5: took place just outside of Lucasville, Ohio, which is a 70 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 5: small rust belt town that used to make things manufacturing 71 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 5: towns but has since transformed into a prison town. There 72 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 5: are multiple institutions in that area. So what happens is 73 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 5: the night before the execution, we were all the reporters. 74 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 5: We all go down and stay at the local holiday inn. 75 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 5: We get there the night before because they start the 76 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 5: process very early. The day that we arrive, we are 77 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 5: met by prison officials at the prison and they tell 78 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 5: us about how the inmates last night is going. They 79 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 5: describe his final meal and they call it a special meal, 80 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 5: but because it's not technically not as final meal because 81 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 5: they eat breakfast the next day. 82 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 4: But they go over that. 83 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 5: They discuss the mood of the inmate in any appeals 84 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 5: that may or may not be pending. So that all 85 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 5: takes place the night prior to the eve of the 86 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 5: next morning. We have to go to the prison about 87 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 5: six am. They do these very early in the morning. 88 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 5: We are ushered in as a group. We are provided 89 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 5: with paper and we are provided with pencils. We are 90 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 5: not permitted to bring in any other devices. We are 91 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 5: put into a room. They provide food, which has always 92 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 5: struck us as weird, like we're eating the executioner's food, 93 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 5: which always felt like really awkward because of the seriousness 94 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 5: of what we're about to see. So we sit in 95 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 5: that it's like a welcoming center, so to speak. The 96 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 5: inmates and families use normally, but because of the execution, 97 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 5: everything is shut down. The prison is so quiet. It 98 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 5: is a totally surreal atmosphere. We wait, and then eventually 99 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 5: the warden's assistant comes and walks us out of this 100 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 5: welcoming center building, across the small courtyard and into the 101 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 5: execution house, where we are quietly and told not to speak. 102 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 5: They don't want any talking, they don't want any emotion. 103 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 5: It has to be quiet. If there's any disturbances, they 104 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 5: will force you to leave. So they take us into 105 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 5: this viewing room. There are usually twelve chairs set up 106 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 5: like six on one side, six on the other. The 107 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 5: media are given their seats, are allowed to stand the 108 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 5: executioners that eye witnessed. The family members were already there. 109 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 5: The victim's family gets multiple seats, the inmates family gets 110 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 5: multiple seats. Their attorneys, their spiritual advisors are always there. And 111 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 5: we are sitting in that room, separated by a clear 112 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 5: glass window with a curtain is pulled and then eventually 113 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 5: the curtains open and we see the warden meeting us there. 114 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 5: Prior to this, we are allowed to watch on a 115 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 5: TV monitor. They install the shunts into the arms of 116 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 5: the inmate. That has caused problems in Ohio that you 117 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 5: can look baack on this. There have been inmates where 118 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 5: they can't find a vane and it's caused a lot 119 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 5: of trauma, and it's actually caused for some cancelation of 120 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 5: some executions. But the ones that I witness, you see 121 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 5: them put the shunts in and they walk in and 122 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 5: then lay down on the table and they're totally compliant, 123 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 5: and then the whole process begins. The death warrant is 124 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 5: read by the warden. The invate has offered his opportunity 125 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 5: to give his last words. Every time they always have 126 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 5: anytime I witness, they've always given a last statement. From 127 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 5: my experience of warden will tug on us tie and 128 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 5: that is the signal to the folks behind the wall, 129 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 5: and they will trigger the the doses three drug cocktail 130 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 5: of drugs that are sent into through the veins of 131 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 5: the condemned. And you sit there and you just watch 132 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 5: the human being die and take their last breath, and 133 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 5: it's certainly hard to watch. I can't imagine what the 134 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 5: family members on on both sides are going through. But 135 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 5: as a journalist it was always, you know, it was 136 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 5: always tough to watch because you are seeing a healthy, fit, 137 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 5: young person being you know, put down. And so once 138 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 5: the once they suspect that the in mid is dead, 139 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 5: they close the curtains. Doctor comes in confirms it, and 140 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 5: then they open the curtains again. The warden pronounces the 141 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 5: time of death. Curtain has closed again. We are all 142 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 5: ushered out into back to the welcoming center where there 143 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 5: would be a brief press conference with family members. The 144 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 5: warden may speak, prosecutors may speak, and then we I 145 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 5: have seen where a hearse comes and takes the body 146 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 5: of the innate and takes them to a funeral home. 147 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 2: That's an incredibly intense process. You mentioned there that the 148 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 2: person being put to death occasionally gets the chance to 149 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: say something. Have any of their last comments really stood 150 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: out in your mind? 151 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 5: Most of the time, you know, it's the messages they 152 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 5: usually send out are personal. There's usually an expression of 153 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 5: regret and remorse to the families, on both sides. You know, 154 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 5: they're sorry for the person that they hurt, but they're 155 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 5: also too, you know, troubled and hurt by their own 156 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 5: family and the loss that those family members are going through. 157 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 5: So yeah, it's it's it's a tough, tough situation because, 158 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 5: you know, we're sitting there as neutral observers, but we 159 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 5: have people who are witnessing a funeral and there are 160 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 5: people crying there, and it's it is it's it's hard 161 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 5: to watch. 162 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: Stick around because in just a moment, feels going to 163 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 2: reveal how he feels about the death penalty. After witnessing 164 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: a few executions. Welcome back on chatting to journalist Phil Trexler, 165 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: who's witnessed five executions in the US. 166 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: Phil, you mentioned earlier that. 167 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 2: The victims' family members are allowed to attend the executions. 168 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 2: From your experience, what did they typically get out of 169 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: watching it? Did they get closure after witnessing the death. 170 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was kind of weird. 171 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 5: I had the one executioner, gentleman by the name of 172 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 5: Robert Buell, and he had raped and killed a young girl. 173 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 5: He was kind of defying at the until the end. 174 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 5: That one was hard to watch with the family members. 175 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 5: There was not one time a family and I don't 176 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 5: want to say their name, but they were staying in 177 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 5: the same hotel as we were for this one execution, 178 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 5: and it was almost like they were having a party 179 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 5: the night before. 180 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 4: They were allowed. 181 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 5: They were drinking, they were enjoying themselves because for them 182 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 5: this was like sporting of that almost and it was 183 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 5: kind of really like weird. And then then the execution 184 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 5: was canceled that time and we had to come back 185 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 5: again and do it again. But you know, they say 186 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 5: they feel closure, I don't think they'll ever get closure 187 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 5: because they have suffered such a great loss. You lose 188 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 5: a loved one to an act of violence. That's hard. 189 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 5: You never get over it. Maybe you feel some sort 190 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 5: of retribution, but to me seems shallow, you know, because 191 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 5: nothing will ever make you whole again. You've lost something 192 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 5: you'll never get back. And the fact that someone that 193 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 5: stayed government is putting someone to death, I don't know 194 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 5: that that brings a full degree of closure that they 195 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 5: may be seeking. 196 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: If I could ask, how do you feel about the 197 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: death penalty and has that changed since witnessing these executions. 198 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's definitely changed a lot. 199 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 5: I used to be pro death penalty, but over the 200 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 5: course of my career witnessing folks who were on death 201 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 5: row or facing the death penalty be exonerated. 202 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 4: It's just inconsistent. 203 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 5: For example, in Ohio, I can say I'm gonna come 204 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 5: over tomorrow and kill you, and I'm not all even 205 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 5: eligible for the death penalty. 206 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 4: But if I walk up to them and say. 207 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 5: Hey, give me your wallet and then I kill them, 208 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 5: I'm eligible only because I'm taking their wallet. So that's 209 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 5: one of the things that I struggle with is just 210 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 5: it's just not equally applied to folks. You know, there 211 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 5: are a certain class of people who automatically get a 212 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 5: death penalty, older people, younger people, politicians, police officers. Those 213 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 5: are automatic death penalty cases. But a teacher is not 214 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 5: a you know, it's not an automatic. So it's just 215 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 5: I don't like the unequal application of the law. I 216 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 5: think there's too much room for error. As we've seen 217 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 5: in the last decade, the soaring number of exonerations. There's 218 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 5: just too much risk involved, the delays and the costs. 219 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 5: Those also are not a effective. We spend way more 220 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 5: money trying to execute them than trying to house them. 221 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 5: So and I can certainly understand. I may feel different 222 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 5: if that God forbid it ever happened to me. But 223 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 5: I just I don't think people get the closure that 224 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 5: they're seeking. I don't think it accomplishes anything, and I 225 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 5: think it's unequally applied and. 226 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 4: There's too much risk involved. 227 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 5: So yeah, I just don't think it's a practice that 228 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 5: the best pony is any any more effective as it was. 229 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 2: Phil trex La, the editor in chape of the Marshall 230 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 2: Project in Cleveland, thank you so much for taking the 231 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 2: ton to tell news dot com dot you about your experiences. 232 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. 233 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me on, Andrew. 234 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: Well, that's it for today's episode. 235 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: Tomorrow, we'll be joined by US dot com dot u's 236 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 2: political editor, Samantha Iiden, who's going to share some very 237 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: juicy stories from the federal election campaign. 238 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: Oh boy, I will chat to you then follow I'll 239 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: subscribe to from the news room wherever you get your podcasts.